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tv   Washington Journal  CSPAN  October 18, 2015 8:30am-9:16am EDT

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to be hyper partisan with our coverage of issues like this. we try to stick to the facts about the details, how long people are on these programs. are they abusing them. get fromck to that we both sides, from various , and thenrganizations also, to your point about , yes, we are an openly conservative outlet. we are not hiding that but we are able to work with democrats. aim recently i just did made -- a major story on a congressional research service showed that the current a senator -- senate majority leader mitch mcconnell has used sale in the amendment tree more than any other majority leader in the history
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of congress. that tactic of course is used to cut off debate. host: guest: we conclude -- host: we conclude with this point, the pew research study on political polarization. i just want to get your response to one part of this report, saying that when it comes to getting news about politics and government, liberals and conservatives and different worlds. there is little overlap in the new sources they turn to and trust. and whether discussing politics online or with friends, they are more likely than others to interact with like-minded individuals. guest: look. yes, that is the case. toot of liberals are going places like msnbc for their news. a lot of conservatives are coming to places like breitbart news, daily caller, fox etc., for their news. i think that both sides need to do a better job at reaching out to the other side's readers. that is one of the goals that we are trying to do. is you that you do that
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opinion.acts, not you report the news. if you do that you can reach more and more people. that is why we are at nearly 22 million monthly readers, 110 million page views on our website a month. that is why we are growing at the rate we are growing because of the fact that we are providing facts and not opinions. host: what is the next big story you are working on? guest: there are about 100 big stories i am working on. just this past week i talked with several senior aides to mr. trump's campaign and so we are looking into the next steps for his presidential campaign as he kind of turns the corner from a protest candidate, in the to aning of his candidacy, serious candidate now that he is continuing to be at the top of the polls. there are a lot of people including wisconsin governor scott walker, government romney, who seem -- governor mitt
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romney, who seem to now be open to the possibility of trump. host: finally, if you had to bet about joe biden getting into this racetrack of guest: i think there is a wide-open race for joe biden to get in. a lot of the democratic obviously hillary clinton won the debate earlier this week. i don't think there is much debate about whether or not she won. think there is a wide open lane for vice president biden. i would expect that he will. host: and we're getting word that second happen as early as this week. guest: and by the way, there is another example of a story. in an interview i did with mr. trump earlier this summer he actually predicted that he will face off against joe biden in the general election. is a matthew boyle who political reporter for breitbart news. we appreciate you stopping by. back, what is a democratic socialist? we will check in with maria svart of the democratic
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socialists of america. and later, matthew green, author of "the speaker of the house." when will we find out who will succeed john boehner? our local content vehicle is off to buffalo new york this weekend as we travel around the country, part of american history tv. today we feature the historic mansion where theodore roosevelt was inaugurated. you may remember that william mckinley was in buffalo, new york when he was assassinated. here is a portion. are at 641 delaware avenue. this was the home of anthony wilcox, a prominent of low attorney, who was friends with theodore roosevelt when roosevelt was in the new york state assembly. president,as vice
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did not have all that much to do with it. he was actually in buffalo three times. he came to open the pan-american exposition on presidents' day. toliam mckinley was supposed be here, but his wife, ida, who is in ill health, prevented him from coming so roosevelt substituted for him in may of 1901. and of course when mckinley was shot on september 6, 1901, roosevelt was looking for a hotel room and just by chance bumped into anthony wilcox. mr. wilcox offered him his home tuesday while he was in buffalo tending to the wounded president. buffalo new york, this weekend on c-span three american history tv and c-span2 booktv. you can check out all of our tours online anytime at
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joining us from new york city is maria svart, national director for the democrats it -- democratic socialists of america. thanks are being with us. guest: thanks for having us. host: we have a phone line set aside for socialists. that number is (202) 748-8003. define the mission of your organization. guest: essentially democratic socialism is the idea that everyone in society contributes to creating the wealth of society, and therefore everyone should have a voice in what we do with that wealth. fixing our it is political democracy, because bernie sanders was right when he said on tuesday that wall street regulate congress instead of congress regulate wall street. fix our political economy and then we want to extend democracy into the economy. that means that the level of the
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workplace, people work together to create wealth and they should get a voice -- they should a fair share of the benefits. they should have a voice in how their workplaces run. then at the level of society, we should really be able to democratically decide how we invest the well from taxes, and that should be in things like social security that benefit everyone. my organization is basically helping to build the kind of political revolution that bernie sanders talked about to really educate people about the way the economy actually works because the mainstream media and theticians really obscure reality of who has power in our society. onbuild grassroots chapters campuses and in communities that educate the general public and then organize people to work together to reclaim some power. and really to empower ordinary people to have a voice. begin withe get -- some news. the front page of "the washington post" focusing on the topic we are discussing.
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the headline, sanders the socialist embraces his moment. the piece begins as follows. when a senator bernie sanders came to speak and iowa a few months ago, drake university student yet miller snagged a seat on the stage. it was a close-up look at a historic campaign. after decades were socialists were the enemy, a democratic socialist had come to town as a serious candidate for president. what a moment, right? right? remind me what a socialist is, miller said last week. a friend to try to explain. a socialist is someone who believes the government needs to be involved in a a lot of aspects of the economy and social issues as well. their definition? fiaair definition? guest: it is a start. and it is important, because this redbaiting is a tool that using to is always
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undermine social efforts. social security, medicare, the government provide a lot of things to help able make ends meet and plays a very important role in helping the most vulnerable in society. the beginning of what socialism is. it is something that a lot of americans believe in and benefit doorwayd if this is a to better understanding the complexities of what democratic socialism is, then we are very happy. that is one of the reasons we are excited about the sanders campaign. host: let me go back to one of these points -- one of the points from the piece from the washington post. that thenders finds success of the label is due to a mixture of good politics and timing. 20 four years after the end of the cold war many americans no longer associate socialism with fear or missiles, or with failure, food life, or empty
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soviet supermarkets. a word that their elders of size a floor has become a blank, open for him to define. age ofpeople under the 50, and i am definitely under the age of 50, don't have those same associations. we death -- we really think of democratic socialism as democratic. sanders refers to northern european social democratic countries and talks about how they provide a much better standard of living for their citizens. that is really the purpose of democratic socialism. young people today are struggling. you know, since before the financial crash. and people are looking for an alternative. their feel no power in lives. they feel like forces beyond their control are controlling what choices they have, and they are really open to alternatives. bernie sanders has consistently been great on the issues, and now he has the opportunity to really popularize democratic socialism and take away this
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weapon that the right wing has used consistently. they use the fear of the socialist bogeyman constantly to say that government can never solve problems and that socialism is evil and undemocratic. has really demonstrated that that is not the case, and no longer can they attacked even obama -- who is clearly not a socialist -- when they took -- when he tries to do anything to rein in corporate power they call him a socialist. bernie is really taking back that label and it makes him dangerous to the right wing. it also makes them dangerous to the mainstream leaders of the democratic party and the way insiders who are perfectly happy with the way things are now. he is really sparking -- striking a chord with the american people. host: and inside "the washington is a sanderst -- redefining what it means to be a
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democratic socialist? our road to the white house interview with bernie sanders also discussing this very issue, you can check it out online anytime. let's go to richard, joining us from missouri. good morning. caller: good morning. i guess i am turning into a socialist. i am 78 years old. i bought a book here in a flea market, it was 100 years old and it described the socialist party back then. today it is back -- it is about what it was back then. love interstate highways, i love rea is, social security, medicare, it is a good thing for everybody. everybody likes to have a good living. we would be sitting here in the dark if we did not have rea's. but i tell you what. bernie is my man. all i can.
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i sent him $50, i think i will send him another $50. one thing he wants to stress for a much is health care. obamacare is all right but it will not do for everybody. we all pay and and we all get , but we get hospital bills here and we don't need them. we don't need insurance, we just need health care. host: richard, thanks. we will get a response. maria svart. hit on achard really lot of things i want to applaud. it's true. socialism has a long history in the united states, and the mechanic socialism really had -- has its roots in the debsian --eugene debs was an american socialist. his idea of socialism was profoundly bottom up.
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it is of the people, for the people. specifically as far as policies i thought richard also raised an important point. whatasting the aca with sanders would like, not just health care but in a lot of other programs. that is a single-payer, medicare for all, health-care system. that is the difference between sanders and the republicans were basically privately happy for the insurance companies to make off like bandits and for people to die because they do not have health care. but it also contrasts with the neoliberal capitalist democratic party politicians who are really closely aligned with wall street and the pharmaceutical industries. the sanders program would benefit everyone, everybody would be an, nobody would be out. there would be much lower administrative costs. it would save us money and provide health care to everyone. that is really what socialism is
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about. so this idea that there are some problems -- there is society at that there are problems that individuals cannot confront a loan that we are all in this together and we can find solutions that will benefit everyone more efficiently. those are two things that were -- really stood out to me. host: maria svart is joining us from new york, she is a graduate of the university of chicago. she spent a number of years with the teachers union, also with the massachusetts public research group. she now serves as national director for the democratic socialists of america. it is a movement, not a party, corrects? correct. we are an activist organization. we have supported the, at times, people who are registered democrats running for office, and we have supported people with third parties running for office. it depends on circumstances. we recognized that our political system is very flawed.
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but we are an activist organization. fundamentally what we do is try to educate the public, educate ourselves, and mobilize people to work together. the problem in our country is not that we don't know the right that ordinary people cannot come up with good solutions to our problem. political we lacked will, because ordinary people don't have a voice in the political process. , whether itpeople is to support unions that are wageg to negotiate a fair in their community, to holding the police force accountable, we really work with people to address the problems in their community and put power back in the ordinary -- the hands of the ordinary people. politics but we certainly do not think it is the only thing that is important to be engaging and. host: quick, from michael who sent in this tweet.
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what we have now is the merging of the new deal and socialism. agree or disagree? guest: that is an interesting way to characterize it, but i can see what he's saying. the new deal was not socialism. it was the closest in this country that we have come, for sure, because it was really saying working people don't have any power. we are in an economic crisis. we need to help people who are living on the brink to survive. and that is very important. it really helped to birth a lot of important public programs that we have today. that is a social democratic idea, that government should provide some things for people who need them, because the capitalist system is fundamentally oriented -- because corporations are always having to make more money.
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it is really saying, the government needs to have a role. the democratic socialism .ctually goes one step further it says that we as people need to control our workplaces. we create the wealth, we should share the wealth. we should decide what we do with the wealth, and not just in workplaces but at the level of the economy. we all know that climate change is going to cause huge problems. bernie sanders is right. it is probably our biggest national security issue. yes, our government and -- invests in dirty fossil fuels which are accelerating climate change. as a society, why not make a decision to invest in clean, renewable energy and lead a healthy planet? we cannot do that right now. our political system is totally broken. but if we, democratically as a society wanted to do that and we had a truly democratic system,
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we could. it is taking it a step beyond the new deal and really saying, whether it is worker cooperatives at the workplace where we own it and we make decisions about how the work how profits are invested, or as a society, we need a voice. your calls, chuck from saint augustine, florida. independent line. good morning. caller: good morning. i would like to know why nobody brings up what is a socialist republican? my gosh. we have socialized banks. that is the biggest modern day successful socialized program out there. it would be good ammunition against the republicans, what they have verballys far as making socialism a dirty word. yet they use it every day. i agree with you about bernie sanders and social security and
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.edicare i also like donald trump. i don't know a lot of his views, but so far i think them to guys are probably the best -- them two guys are probably the best. host: thanks for the call. guest: yes, a lot of republicans like bernie sanders because he is pointing out the elephant in what the caller talked about with the banks and the socialized banks i think is so critical to understand. when the banks crashed our economy, through millions of threwans out of work -- millions of americans out of work, they were never held accountable. they were bailed out with billions of taxpayer dollars. that just demonstrates that for all anyone talks about how public programs are too difficult or we don't have the money, the reality is we have the money. like i said before, what we lack is the political will.
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aat's why we need to build powerful movement. it is eminently practical. all the programs party talks about our incredibly practical. we have the money in our society. right now it is going to defense contractors, the pharmaceutical industry. it is going to other kinds of corporate welfare. it is going to the very wealthiest who have gotten tax rate after-tax rate for the last few decades. the money is there and if we were just practical about it we would know where to invested, but -- where to invest in, -- tot where -- to -- where invest it. i completely disagree with trump, i think he is a racist demagogue, but they are tapping into this. they know that people do not have a voice. i am hoping that sanders will continue to attract these independent and civil libertarians. audience, we radio
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just wanted to let them know that they are listening maria svart to maria svart -- that they are listening to maria svart, the director of the democratic socialists of america. did you have a final point? guest: i will just mention our website, we want to encourage people to check it out. host: and we have mike. go ahead. aller: i just want to get point in about health care. i think it is a bit disingenuous people it free when actually paying for it with their taxes. their told people that taxes go towards it, i think they would feel of a differently about it. and as far as climate change being our national issue, i think we forget about the national debt. host: thank you, mike.
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guest: sure. it is absolutely true that taxes would have to go up to pay for some of these programs, it goes back to the point i just made. there is a law of corporate welfare. i listed a variety of things, i forgot to mention the financial transaction tax, but a variety of sources of revenue that we , and any one of those wasteful defense contractor spending, re-instituting higher taxes on the very wealthy, cutting corporate welfare. any one of those would provide hundreds of billions of dollars. that is with a "b." that would be good for our economy and for our people. the caller mentioned the national debt. there is an obsession with national debt which is just irrational if you actually look at the way the economy works. and there is all this money that is just going to the wrong people.
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i understand why the ordinary taxpayer feels a large tax burden, because our public services have been degraded over the years because the right wing is constantly cutting funding. they areme time cutting taxes for corporations and the wealthy. what that leaves is people like you and me being squeezed paying we are playing -- a higher share of taxes for lower quality public services. meanwhile the very wealthy and the corporate leaders are laughing all the way to the bank. it is not an issue of not having the money. it is an issue of who is paying taxes and what a paying for. host: next caller is abreast, -- ss, fromss -- ru pennsylvania. on outline for democratic socialists. caller: good morning. this is a great conversation. i would like to ask the recent tpp, itreement, tbp --
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is the work of international capitalists. that is why i am a member of the international socialists. to workworking people together, unions unite across international borders, and to fight these secrets of -- secret agreements that are being fueled by our elite and they are going to cut us out completely. host: maria svart, your response? guest: absolutely. working people in this country -- i think one of the earlier callers, maybe it was your earlier guest was talking about trade agreements and how they have really led into the siphoning off of good, unionized jobs. they go to other countries where people have less labor rights. and that is really true. one of the things that people don't want to admit in this country is that there is a global class of people who own these major corporations, and
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they are perfectly happy. and facts they want to move all their jobs overseas. they have no vested interest in the american worker. they are willing to move all itse jobs overseas, and leads to structural unemployment in this country. my view, right after they decided to ship all these jobs overseas, they started cutting all of the kinds of public programs to support people are living on the edge of poverty. we have a huge joblessness problem in this country, and underemployment problem in this country. people are struggling with low-wage jobs and working two or three jobs, and they just can't seem to get ahead. we have not fully recovered all of the jobs from the crash, and we have a structural problem. our economy is set up to provide profit for people on wall street to speculate with our money, and to corporate ceos who get golden
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parachutes when they fire a bunch of people or find other withoutmake money actually producing anything. the caller is absolutely right. working people need to work together, we need to stand up. we need to have a voice in politics. we need to organize our workplaces. as a democratic socialist, of course i think we need to take it a step further. we should be running all of our companies. like i said, a ceo is going to get a golden parachute for firing a bunch of people. we know how to run these places. there is no reason that we have to depend on a boss who wants to pay is the least possible. it is just the way our economies up. -- our economy is set we could change it. host: the front page of open -- this morning "washington post here cap -- washington post."
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saying sanders-- defined his ideology. [video clip] >> a gallup poll says half of americans would not put someone called a socialist in the white house. how do you think you can win? we are going to win because first we are going to explain socialism. what socialism says is that it is a moral wrong with the top 1% in this country owns almost 90%. most as much wealth as the bottom 90%. it is wrong today, in a rigged economy, that 50% -- 57% of income is going to the top 1%. when you look around the world use the world you see every other major country providing and --care to all people except the united states.
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you see every other countries saying to new moms, when you have a baby, we are not going to separate from your newborn baby because we are going to have medical and family paid leave, like every other country on earth. those are some of the principles that i believe in, and i think we should look to countries like denmark, like sweden. host: that was from the debate this past tuesday. and from the workers party, in response to bernie sanders and his socialist views, from i don't thinkg bernie sanders in a socialist. he ignores a socialist countries. she goes on to say we agree with him that the rich should be taxed more heavily and the minimum wage should be higher, the we are calling for the seizure of the banks, the seizure of the health care system, the seizure of the pharmaceutical companies. we are calling for full immigrant rights, dismantling the let's get back to your phone calls. rogers on the line for democrats. caller: first of all, i would
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like to say, is this woman and bernie sanders are basically [indiscernible] ronald reagan successfully nation'sed 45% of the people would the help of rush limbaugh, and if you use keywords like socialist and they think communist and do not vote for you. you cannot do what you are doing to fix this problem and shout out demagogue. they love demagogue. they don't even understand what the word means. go to a republican bar and talk to them. you folks have to fix the brainwashed problem and you slowly fix the brainwashed problem by bringing back the equal time loss that ronald reagan got rid of. host: thank you. at this point for the 40
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years, the far right, and i'm not talking about moderate republicans, but for the last 40 years, the far, far right as i systematically built up institutions to control the discourse and it obviously start with mccarthyism but they learned that that strategy worked, and they have really dismantled the public sphere and he regulated, that is why we had so many problems with wall street. the unionbusting industry grew astronomically in the 1980's. another thing they have to is flooded the airwaves with their mantra, including how socialism is evil, and the government in general is evil and inefficient. they just repeated over, over again, ignoring facts and it is true that it has an impact on how people engage with politics. another thing you were talking
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about earlier with your prior guest was how the different forms of media have really caused further polarization in american politics. that is very true. it is one of the things that is exciting about bernie sanders. he can reach across that divide. it is also forcing, i think, the socialist movement and some liberals to really understand that you need to have genuine conversations with people because people are struggling. i keep getting back to the main point. one in four children in this country live in poverty, and their parents are struggling and trying to make ends meet. of the world will point to brown people, especially immigrants, and say that they are the source of the problem, but the truth is it is wall street and bernie sanders is pointing that out. engage with your friends and neighbors and people that are different with you on a human level, you can really get back to this question up, do we
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want a society where greed rules and it is everyone for themselves? or do we want a society where we work together? we use the resiliency for which america is so well-known and we come up with new solutions democratically that will deal with, as i said earlier, the individual problems that are truly societal problems so we can come up with solutions that will help everybody, not just blaming individuals for problems that have fallen on their lap and outside of the control. joining us from great britain is matthew in wales, you have been patient. go ahead. caller: thank you for accepting my call. i am glad of that. member of the labour party in the u.k. and basically the labour party movements was actually born here in southeast wales. powerfulr party was a
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-- was in power for a few years and they said at the national health services, basically a democratic-socialist party. what is it that americans are so fearful of socialism went america itself is very happy to do business for socialist countries? even a conservative party in the of they any sense imagination, is still quite socialist. there is no direct comparison between the conservative party in the u.k. and the republicans they [indiscernible] because we will not tolerate the republican level and ideology, which seems to be about very rich wealthy people making decisions. we have a rule of thumb in the but and powers are limited,
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business leaders in the united states, your royal families, to put it blankly, seem to be able to do whatever they want, whenever they want to do it and nobody is there to go hold them and say this is our country, too, so what is going on? host: thank you. guest: the caller raised a lot of good questions. i think one important thing to keep in mind is that our political system is structured differently from a lot of -- most other countries in the world. that have parliamentary systems. the united states has a lot of reasons that we have two main dominant political parties, and there are smaller, basically, impotent political parties that have a difficult time breaking into the national discourse. when they do, they have to become one of the two main parties or the weather. that is a reality -- or they
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her. that is the reality enemy are not happy with it but it influences how politics operates in the country and it influences what kind of debate is acceptable and it restricts the range of ideas that can even be averageed because the person does not think about politics except for during election season. if you only have two major political parties and the leaders of the parties try to control the discourse, although they cannot always fully control it, and that is our trump and sanders are bubbling up as one thingternatives, is in the united states, the political system is structured differently and it influences the discourse. another reason is that we are a country -- colonial-settler country which has a mythology which has risen up of this idea .f rugged individualism
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your overall question about why are americans like this? full book seven written about this, but that is one of them -- the individual mechanism. -- the idea of rugged individualism. byialism is highly protected clinical rights and free speech, and under a democratic and social society, we would have more opportunities to develop our individual interest and we would not be -- if someone is born to migrant farmworkers in a democratic and social society, they will have access to food, education, and at the next albert einstein is born to farmworkers, they will have the opportunity to develop that. instead, in the capitalist system, that will never happen. we believe that individualism will be enhanced under democratic socialism, but the right-wing is constantly saying that socialism is totalitarianism and this gets
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back -- i cannot stress enough the power of redbaiting -- and the gets back to mccarthyism and the attacks on socialist and communist and anyone on the left, and our kiss, that have been happening -- and our kiss, that have been happening for , i have-- anarchists been happening for decades to limit the discourse. bernie sanders is saying, i am a democratic socialist, do i look like a totalitarian dictator? can spouton sense, he statistics better than i can but also inspire people by speaking truth. he speaks truth in power and dramatically widens acceptable parameters of debate. he is putting socialism back into mainstream discourse in american politics where it has not been for almost one century. pull creating space to back the debate from the far, far right which is where it has been pulled by the length of the tea party.
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i spoke earlier of the rise of the unionbusting industry and the chamber of commerce and everything which happened in the early 1980's, they were organized and they had a major influence on american politics and they had -- they talk to each other so they had unified message, and they really are that i just had and bernie is helping to pull the politics. i really believe that the that listen to the message and that democratic socialism and what the work will be excited about it. guest --ia svart our addresses maria svart. to get more information, the woman calls and times, kevin from marshall, text, republican larry -- republican. caller: you had mentioned at the beginning of the show that you are using social security and medicare some of your hallmarks,
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but [indiscernible] withliability and now retirement is putting more in this husband the get out and i think it is left to soon to talk, but what i really want to ask is, it comes down to the philosophical basis of your theory. i am a conservative. i believe that people are born without government. government does not create you. requires that you take from some and give to the others here so i am wondering, what is your philosophical basis to being able to do that? host: thank you, kevin. guest: first, i cannot let with hat he said that social security unanswered -- about social security left unanswered. the money is there and going to
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the pockets of the wealthy. if we raise the cap on taxable income for social security, we could make it financially viable many decades. it is just this repeated mantra that the right-wing keeps and unfortunately, too many corporate democrats are paid, that really buys into this and causes more people in the united states to believe that we have this crisis in a public program. very popular and that is why they are attacking them, because they point to an alternative role for government. to the question of my philosophical beliefs. saidnk the caller socialism depends on taking from , and i give to others would just say that that is what is happening right now under capitalism, honestly. whether we are talking about the bank bailouts, talk of a giveaway to the corporation to whether we are talking about, even in the workplace where people are being paid poverty
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wages, walmart is the perfect example, leading aside their role at the global level as far as driving down living standards for workers across the globe, because they are such a major corporation, their workers are paid poverty wages, so the workers are struggling so they go on public assistance. guess who pays for that? taxpayers. this is the perfect example of how -- it is an irrationality to say that we are not taking from some to give to others under capitalism. anybody who works really hard for a possible pays them very little and takes a lot of money, that is taking from some to give to others. it is our idea of democratic socialism that is wrong and we should have a voice in the decisions about something that we work on collectively. we really believe in worker
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ownership. we truly believe that ordinary people have the power to make decisions about the work they do. some of us have been lucky, but others have worked in jobs where the boss did not know what they were doing, or was deliberately doing things just to make a profit, but we do the work, there's no reason we cannot collectively make decisions about the work and that we cannot share fairly in the fruits of our labor. that is just -- i mean, i said everything i meant to say. we have about one minute left. i want to play with wet donald trump said in richmond, virginia, and get your response. donald trump: i watched hillary last night with -- we are going to get this, that, and she is going to give everything away because this maniac who was standing on her right is giving everything away, so she is following. that is what is happening. [applause]
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socialist/communist, nobody wants to say it. no! [applause] no, in all fairness to her, she is standing there listening to this guy. she is going to taxi people at 90% and take everything. and nobody has heard the term communist, but you know what? i called a socialist/communist because that is what he is. host: donald trump this past week in richmond, virginia. your quick response. invite everyone in washed it, the sea to an event thursday that with jim hightower. everything i have said about the redbaiting and how the right-wing uses this threat of the socialist bogeyman and the conflict communism and socialism is all right there with what trump just said.
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he is trying to restrict the range of debate and hillary is being forced more to the left by bernie sanders, which is fabulous, and trump is redbaiting. this is the dynamic have been talking about and what it is so great that bernie sanders says, yes, i am a democratic socialist and part of it. we love him for that. host: i have been looking at that but for the last 45 minutes and cannot figure out what it says. guest: it says democratic socialism for america and this is our symbol. it took the international symbol of social democracy from many of our parties around the world and it made it uniquely american. hand a white and black together because he really believe that without racial justice we can never have economic justice and it says -- we all deserve roses. we need bread to eight but we also need roses for the leisure time and the time to create art. all of these things you cannot


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