tv Key Capitol Hill Hearings CSPAN May 27, 2016 2:00pm-4:01pm EDT
to hiroshima. love, the first smile from our children in the morning , the gentle touch of a spouse , thethe kitchen table ,omforting embrace of apparent we can think of those things and know that those same pressures comments took place here -- precious moments took place here 71 years ago. usse who died, they are like , ordinary people understand
this, i think. they do not want more war. they would rather that the wonders of science be focused on improving life and not eliminating it. when the choices made by nations, when the choices made by leaders reflect this simple then the- wisdom, lesson of hiroshima is done. the world was forever changed here, but today, the children of this city will go through their day in peace. .hat a precious thing that is it is worth attacking --
protecting, and then extending to every child. that is a future we can choose, a future in which hiroshima and nagasaki are known not as the , but asatomic warfare the start of our own moral awakening. [applause] >> at the 70th anniversary of russia i visited the united states. , ipromised her at the time spoke to the u.s. congress.
who fought each other have become friends bonded. allies withcome trust and friendship deepened between us. the japan-u.s. alliance which came into the world has to be an alliance for help for the world -- hope for the world. one year has passed since then. president obama for the first time as leader of the united visitedhe has hiroshima, the city which suffered the atomic bomb. the atomic bombings, and renewing his determination for a world free of nuclear
weapons. this gives me hope that people all around the world have never given up their hoped-for a world without nuclear weapons. which has been awakened -- but all the japanese people. express my sincere respects for the victims and encourage president obama. we are opening a new chapter to the reconciliation of japan. and in our history of trust and friendship.
together, is ago, and president obama offered our deepest condolences for all those who lost their lives and in thed war ii atomic bombings. 71 years ago in her oshima and nagasaki, -- hiroshima and nagasaki, a great number of citizens lives were ended. many children and many citizens. dreams and beloved family. , in i reflect on this fact
it is the responsibility of us to live in the present, to feelings.is deep we are determined to realize a world free of nuclear weapons, no matter how long and how difficult the road will be. it is the responsibility of us to live in the president -- present, to make efforts. born on thatwere to make everyday bowing for this light.
or of the heart. is the first president to visit hiroshima. at the conclusion of the summit, japanese prime minister delivered remarks where he discussed the economy, the threat of extremism, and russia. this is about 25 minutes. [speaking japanese] >> now he will give his remarks. >> i am going to start off i
expressing in my capacity as japanese prime minister a heartfelt welcome to everyone who came here from around the world. abundant nature, delicious food from the sea and land. my hope is that everyone was able to fully enjoy japan's homegrown features. andshrine's solemn pristine air always makes me is moreif my posture straightened. the shrine has offered prayers for a bountiful harvest, for peace, and for happiness for 2000 years. and prosperity were built based on all of these
prayers given by people. it is here at that shrine where .he g7 summit started this year we come together because of shared beliefs and shared responsibilities. now, 41 years ago when faced with a global economic crisis, the oil shock, our predecessors agreed to ae and historical policy coronation. isay's peace and prosperity the result of the belief that our predecessors had that the future can be changed, and that they can tackle challenges
together. today's peace and prosperity must be handed down in tact to .ur children and grandchildren in order for us to do so, those of us who are here today cannot shy away from the issues that we face. we must work together to overcome these issues. freedom, democracy, human rights, and the rule of law, these are basic values that are shared by the g7. global peace and today, the g7 has a major responsibility. the world faces many issues. there is clear determination to cooperate and address these
issues that we have confirmed with our g7 friends and have loudd to the world here and clear. worldggest topic was the economy. with the decline in stock markets worldwide, in less than a year, more than 1500 trillion yen of assets have been lost. although some recovery has been made recently and there is relative stability, there is still a great deal of murkiness that is agitating global markets. the reason for that, the biggest thatcomes from the fact the emerging economies are starting to show a slowdown.
in the 21st century, the global economy has been driven by the growth and vitality of these emerging markets. when the lehman others collapsed and triggered a global economic crisis, the recovery was led by steady growth in emerging economies. they have served as an engine for the world economy. however, these emerging year,ies, over the last are showing a sudden slowdown. materials, and other and agricultural products, prices over the last year have fallen over 50%. this decline is comparable to what was observed in the aftermath of the lehman brothers
collapse. it has been a big blow to resource rich countries and emerging economies that are dependent on agricultural and materials industries. investment which drives growth is also on the decline. last year, investment growth in emerging economies fell to a new low, a level lower than when the lehman brothers collapsed. it was also the first time since the lehman shock that there was a negative influx of capital to emerging economies. in addition, in china, excessive planned infrastructure and growing underperforming loans and other structural issues in the emerging economies remain unaddressed. the situation could become
aggravated. against this backdrop, global economy growth last year was the worst level since the lehman shock. well, global growth continues to be advised -- revised downwards. the developed economies have suffered from pervasive lack of demand over the last few years and have been hurt by deflationary pressure. with the slowdown of emerging isnomies worldwide, demand stagnant. the most serious concern is a contraction of the global economy. global trade started to decline since the second half of 2014. it declined by close to 20%
which was a decline not seen since the lehman shock. chinese imports declined 14% last year. yearlt a further 12% this -- fell a further 12% this year which means there is risk that the decline in global demand could become prolonged. however, becoming pessimistic will not help. spend thea point to globalme to discuss economic issues not to be pessimistic. we must be able to objectively and accurately understand the risk we face. we must have a shared understanding of the risk, otherwise we will not be able to work together and resolve the issue.
members share the recognition and the strong sense of urgency that the world the risk ofs falling into a crisis the on the usual cycle if we fail to respond properly. we also agreed that -- places role by coordinating monetary, fiscal, and structural policies and take three-pronged approach economiescs, emerging show a sign of weakness.
abenomics must be expanded worldwide. expand the epa and , aer programs to the world free and fair economic program. build ag women to potential and the necessary steps of the international health, including emergency health responses will be a basis for world sustainable growth in order to assist growth and developing countries and worldwide, while the infrastructure -- quality undertructure must be
general principles. as chair of this summit meeting, japan will be on the front line to take these actions in order to contribute to the global economy. every policy response must be to furthern order value abenomics. what should be done including whether the consumption tax rate increases, we need to consider and identify necessary measures to be taken before the upcoming elections.
as we share universal values, we role to playortant to protect world peace and stability. violent extremism is a threat to all humanity. our new action plan is to ensure that terrorists will have no place to hide. forward forr step the international community to fight terrorism together. strongergreed to take global supports to address the root cause of the massive role of the refugees to europe. steadfastly share the conflictsthat all
must be solved peacefully and through dramatic measures and -- diplomatic measures and through international law. anywhere in the world, read him of the ocean must begin key. -- must be guaranteed. actionct any unilateral and call for peaceful measures including judicial proceedings and limitation. -- implementation. the conflict in ukraine can be solved only through peaceful and diplomatic means and international law. for all concerned to
take specific steps to solve the theation peacefully under agreement. we also call for russia to play a constructive role in order to address all issues that the international community faces. it is important to maintain necessary dialogue with president putin in order to realize peace and stability in syria. we condemn and the strongest terms the north korean nuclear testing in january.
we therefore strongly demand complyrth korea will immediately and fully with all relevant united nations security council resolutions. we g7 reaffirmed once again our strong determination for nuclear disarmament and nonproliferation in order to realize a world free of nuclear weapons. realizing a world free of their weapons is not easy, however we share the strong will to move forward hand in hand. after the conclusion of this
meeting, i am going to visit hiroshima where a nuclear bomb was dropped together with president obama of the united states. willn hiroshima, we express our condolences to all victims of the use of nuclear send to the world the information on the impact of the use of the atomic bomb. i believe that will be a strong --p forward to realize the tragedy that happened and realize a world free of nuclear weapons. responsibilityhe
to make sure that the tragedy will not be repeated. world forild a better our children and grandchildren. and for future generations. this summit was an essential summit where this determination was reaffirmed by g7 leaders. -- whyude by this expressing my sincere appreciation. cooperation, this meeting would not have been possible. thank you very much.
>> now we have a q and a with reporters. i am from tv tokyo. g7 summit inirst asia and eight years, there are many security issues, including the south china sea. in terms of the world economy, you compared today's situation to after the collapse of the lehman brothers. i understand that this is a concern, but is this a crisis level in terms of the risk of this escalating into a crisis is serious? how serious is that, what is the probability, and what will japan
do? timeis summit is the first issues, years for asian europe is certainly far away. for security issues, they may not be well understood by european leaders. some of you may feel that way. this summit which is being hosted in japan, when it comes to the south china sea and north korea issues, it was a great opportunity to ask lane to the european -- explained to the european leaders how serious the security issue has become. i think they understood. in the south china sea, we talked about the three
principles of maritime law. inning that any claims maritime areas should be done in international law. force or threat of force should not be used to push through one's claims. peaceful means should be the main way to resolve disputes. these three principles i counted, world leaders agreed, the g7 leaders agreed with me. as for north korea, the nuclear testing in january of this year as well as the repeated testing of elastic missiles following that -- ballistic missiles following that was a situation i explained. the g7 agrees that we cannot tolerate or accept north korea's
agreed program, and we to closely coordinate so that we could hold north korea to its previous commitment. explained the definition of the abduction issue for us. expressed ars concern about japan's abduction issue. it has been clearly incorporated to our communicate. ique.mmun we were not able to present the crisis that followed the collapse of the lehman brothers. we are not optimistic on the outlook of the global economy. have anperative that we accurate understanding of the risks in order for us to address the situation.
from that interview, the g7 had a debate about the world economy . we agreed that we are confronted by a major risk. in order for us to confront this major risk, we agreed to ring in all ma -- bring in all available measures so we could shore up growth around the world. we could collaborate in tackling this issue. this is the point of our economic initiative which is a robust collection of policies. we will continue to promote structural reform and other economic policies and fiscal policies in order for us to .rive demand around the world infrastructure, environmental, energy, digital, and economic,
as well as human talent development and science and technology, in these various areas, we will invest further in the private and public sector. g7 agreement here in japan, we will bring in policies from all areas, including fiscal policies so that we can further strengthen the three areas of economics. >> you have mentioned several times the importance of trade and economic growth. how confident are you that tpp will be resurrected in its current form?
are you satisfied with the language in the g7 communique about steel oversupply which has been blamed on china? >> on the tpp, it is important for all countries concerned and the domestic procedures as to be promoted has been agreed upon. provide anl opportunity for the japanese economy to grow in the medium and long-term. it will also strengthen economic ties of members.
has strategic, effects, benefits must be realized sooner so that i would like to promote the necessary procedures at the parliament of japan. i would like to play a leading to raisernationally the necessary climate for this. raised -- then question has been raised concerning the oversupply of steel in china. this has brought down the international price level of steel. this has also caused major concerns in terms of employment and other situations. the reduction of the controlling
of the output of the steel has been taken, but the steps have not been sufficient enough. such control measures have not been effective. as long as this overcapacity is left unattended. we g7 members share this concern. the function of the markets have to be improved. the markets distorting measures have to be eliminated. taking the venues of oecd and others who we need to promote the dialogue with china and others, this has been good.
>> a quick reminder, if you missed any of president obama's comments at the hiroshima peace memorial, we will show that again tonight at 8:00 p.m. eastern. house's road to the white coverage continues with the donald trump rally in san diego, california. theerday, mr. trump secured necessary number of delegates to clinch the gop, nation. you can see his comments live at 5:00 p.m. eastern on c-span. in addition to the graduating classes all over this planet, i wish you to graduate into a world of peace, light, and love. that is not the case. we don't live in a fairytale. i guess the 1% does. >> this memorial day, watch
commencement speeches in their entirety, offering encouragement to the graduating class of 2016. oracle, larry ellison, university of southern california. and the administrator of the small business administration at whittier college. >> you can count on yourself. what makes you special, what distinguishes you from others, in business we call this your unique value proposition. figuring out yours is key. >> jeff sessions at the university of alabama in huntsville. indiana mike pence at wesleyan university. >> to be strong and courageous, and learn to stand for who you are and what you believe. a way that you have trained here -- changed here. >> and white house officials,
joe biden at the university of notre dame, loretta lynch at spelman college, and president barack obama at rutgers university. president obama: is it any wonder that i am optimistic. throughout our history a new generation of americans has reached up and bent the arc of history in the direction of more freedom and justice. class of 2016, it is your turn now to shape our nations destiny as well as your own. get to work. >> commencement speeches, this memorial day at noon eastern on c-span. coming up next, the senate committee holds a hearing on drug trafficking and heroine abuse. topics include international drug cartels, interdiction strategies, this is about two hours.
>> good morning, this subcommittee on the western hemisphere will come to order. thank you for being here today. the title of this hearing his cartels, combating you as heroin epidemic and drug violence before we begin the meeting on the matter personal privilege i want to notice a loyal staffer. behind every one of us in the senate is loyal and hard-working people. they literally sat behind us in behind us in meetings and all the hard work behind the scenes to make sure we are briefed and prepare to cast votes and advance public policy that makes a difference. since 2011 maggie dougherty has been an instrumental part of our policy team, logging hours sitting behind us in these
committee meetings. but no longer. today is maggie's last senate for relations committee meeting. in a week's time she will do part our office for a bigger and better opportunity. i briefly want to thank her for everything she has done for us. [applause] hearing, thethis cartel in the u.s. heroin epidemic. we have two panels testifying. the first is an official panel that will feature mr. daniel foote the deputy assistant secretary of state for the bureau of international narcotics and mr. cap chester, the associate director for the national heroine group. the second panel will present the honorable teresa jacobs. thank you all for being here today. we appreciate your time. we appreciate your dedication. i would like to thank all those who worked alongside my staff in
making this hearing possible. drug cartels operate out of countries in the western hemisphere, and they do so by using sophisticated systems that move narcotics into the united states. heroin supplied by these cartels has created a public health epidemic that is fueled drug violence across the country. the heroin epidemic and fight against drug violence are becoming an everyday event in our society. to equipte resources those on the front lines to fight this public health crisis. we need to examine what the united states, mexico, and other regional partners are doing, to cooperatively address the rise of heroin and drug trafficking. promoting the efficacy of u.s. initiatives, stop heroine, and combat the drug cartels should be one of our top parties. one of the primary culprits in opiateght is a synthetic that is 25 to 40 times more
potent than heroine. it can be used to treat pain associated with cancer. it is legally prescribed in the united states. most cases of overdoses are associated with non-pharmaceutical fentanyl. heroine andwith other drugs without the users knowledge. the national drug threat assessment summary noted that mexico and china have been cited as the primary sources for fentanyl. these supplies are often trafficked through mail carriers, transnational criminal organizations also use florida as the point of arrival for south american cocaine and heroin. much of the internationally diverted install this in the same markets where white powder heroine is found. the estimated number of
individuals who used heroine was 914,000 people in 2014. in addition, there are about 586,000 individuals, or basically .2% of the 12 and older population had a harrowing disorder in 2014. there has been an increase in heroin overdoses throughout the united states. the midwest and northeast regions are particular concern. theine related -- despite administration's efforts, heroine related overdoses between 2004 and 2014. high-intensity drug trafficking areas across the country. mexico has displayed willingness to cooperate with u.s. authorities. despite these operations, international narcotics control strategy report indicates that less than 2% of cocaine that
comes from mexico is seized by authorities. congress has provided billions of dollars of funds to improve security and the rule of law in mexico. i applaud the efforts of mexico to address the issue. we are far from the finish line. i think that congress should continue to work in constructive ways to promote legislation. i'm proud to be a cut sponsor of the comprehensive drug rehabilitation act. i also applaud the house for working to address this issue. i hope will soon be able to send this legislation to the president's desk. shede this hearing will light on the consequences of this epidemic will have on our society if left unaddressed. i'm optimistic that this hearing will serve as an opportunity to learn about the admin's rations priorities in combating heroine and drug violence.
with that, i will now turn it over to our ranking number, senator boxer for her opening statements. : thank you.r i would like to put in the record -- opening statements. thank you. the goal and illegal drugs in america is a crisis. we need to act on many fronts. take the case of opioids, these are legal prescription drugs that are killing approximately 120 five people every single day. in 2014, fourhat and 25,000 people died from opioid abuse. we need to do more than we have done so far to put real dollars behind the effort to stop this. ofn there is the issue today illegal drugs being transported
into this country. recently i visited costa rica, and i learned that this peaceful country is very alarmed about drug cartels infiltrating their population. we must help them stop this threat. while we are working actively with the mexican government, specifically with an initiative. thante we have seized more $4 billion in illicit currency and narcotics. that is a drop in the bucket. we simply have to address the demand in the united states for these legal products. i know that is not your job very i am not going to ask you about that. i am making a statement as a united states senator. we have to address the demand in the united states for these legal products. lethaland demand -- products.
supply and demand go hand in hand. it is economics 101. when people demand a product, we know what happens, the supply will come. when even more people demand a product, the price will go up, and it goes around in a circle. years ago, too many to even mention, i don't even know where my chairman was at that time. it was so long ago. when i first came to congress, i wrote a bill called treatment on demand. when i found out mr. chairman and members, when there is a person and america with a terrible addiction, they wake up one day and they say i have done it. i have had it. i need a new life. -- in say, come back and two weeks. this is an emergency circumstance.
in many cases, it is not considered that. they will come back in two weeks, and by then maybe they have overdosed. i know we are working with columbia and guatemala and working with farmers to stop drug trafficking, but we have to stop it here at home with consumption. in california, there are high-intensity drug trafficking areas, notified by the obama administration. i am extremely grateful to the administration for its help, and to the bush administration's help as well. andeed federal dollars federal help because a lot of these local people, our police forces and so on, really do need that help. so i am very grateful for that. cartels from san
diego to mexico and we are dealing with dangerous cartels. they are really good at what they do and intimidate everyone and that is why this fight is so critical. we need even stronger partnerships with mexico and countries in other regions, and we need to not alienate our latin american neighbors and latinos here at home, a cousin is the worst possible thing we can do. first of all, it is on a human level because it, in my view, is bigotry, but if we really want to crack down on these cartels, we really want our friends to work with us. we don't need to escalate some kind of ridiculous to a about walls and all the rest. i do want to thank our witnesses for being here today.
it is a lot of burden on you and it is very difficult and the war on drugs has not been a success and i think the reason is, we haven't done enough on the demand side or any side. we need to do much better, and i want to thank my chairman, because i think this is really well-time, you giving what -- well-timed, given what we are facing. thank you. extremeo: there is an amount of work on the western hemisphere issues, so if you want to give any comment on this, we would like to hear it. with that, please join us in welcoming my first witness, mr. foote, thank you for joining us here today. mr. foote: senator rubio, senator cardin, senator menendez, senator boxer, thank you for having me here.
i will be ok, we need the bureau of international cardtronics -- international narcotics who the majorityle for of heroin on the streets today. in the united states, we face an epidemic of opioid abuse. more than half of the 40,000 american deaths from drugs last year were due from domestically-produced pain relievers or heroin, which is often mixed with other deadly -- such as as phenyl fentanyl. is bigger than the united states, and we will not solve it alone. the majority of drugs is
produced by mexican drug trafficking organizations. for many years, they have been tracking not just heroin, what cocaine and many other in illicit drugs that enter our country. most of these drugs enter our border through mexico. the united states and mexico have developed a major focus on combating the production of illicit drugs across our borders. pinion? -- the pena neito and obama administrations are working together to stop this. together, we are aggressively responding to this threat by drugssing leaders of trafficking organizations and putting them in jail and dismantling their organizations.
are building the capacity of mexican law enforcement agencies, supporting the mexican government's efforts to strengthen border management and security, and helping advance reform across mexico's justice sector. bilaterally, we have agreed to that targeting trafficking of heroin as well as fentanyl and other dangerous narcotic substances is a shared priority. to that end, we are providing trained law enforcement officers, investigators, and analysts in increasing mexico's ability to identify, investigate, and dismantle clandestine heroin and fentanyl labs. with our partners, we are recruiting information sharing between our partners in the heroin and fentanyl to get better understandings of
growthnd other opioid and we are enhancing our bilateral cooperation and effectiveness. a strong mexican justice sector institution capable of confronting criminal organizations is a difficult, long-term challenge. this must be sustained only through a committed, coordinated effort that a sustainable capacity could deter the cultivation, production, and trafficking of illicit drugs that can be strengthened. the significant advancements of both of our governments are producing results and with your continued support, the successful collaboration with the mexico will continue. thank you. foote.k you, mr. mr. chester, please begin your testimony. thank you. mr. chester: thank you, mr. rubio, ranking members, miss talks are, thank you.
the government of mexico's efforts are reducing the availability of heroin in the united states and we are addressing these issues in both countries. in 2014, the most current year for which we have data, more than 47,000 americans or approximately 100 29 people -- 129 people each day, die of a heroin overdose -- die of an overdose, and 22% of those were from heroin. since 2000 seven, deaths involving heroin have risen 340% and -- since 2007, deaths involving heroin have 2000.340% from
mexico is currently the primary supplier of heroin to the united states with drug traffickers cultivating opium and poppy and smuggling product into the united states. cultivation has increased extensively over the last couple of years, to 28,000 hectares which could yield potential of 70,000 tons of pure heroin. it also produces the illicit morenyl, a powerful opioid powerful than heroin. sometimes it is mixed with powdered heroin for a strengthening effect or sometimes it dilutes heroin. is beinggly, fentanyl pressed into pill form. the majority of the illicit is produced clandestinely in mexico or in china. fentanyl is extremely dangerous
and deadly. than14, there were more 5544 drug overdose deaths in overdose beyond heroin that it involved fentanyl. u.s.-mexico engagement regarding heroin has been wrote bust. cpt director15, oh theael botticelli looked at importance of increasing poppy eradication efforts in mexico as interdiction and drug trafficking was also highlighted. in march, director botticelli, the ambassador mr. brownfield, and i met with the mexican attorney general gomez, and she announced her role to mexico's efforts to
stop the production of heroin and illicit fentanyl. importantly, we agreed then to joint-develop a focus to combat mexico's efforts against heroin and fentanyl. in addressing the nation's heroin and fentanyl crisis required and increased collaboration with our partners at state, local, and tribal levels. in november 2015, the team that i lead, the national harrow and coordination group, was created in the office of a national drug policy to form the hub of inner agency partners that will use their own authority and resources to check the heroin and fentanyl supply chains into the united states. aredrug trafficking areas part of a program that looks at trafficking issues that face specific areas of the country, and that has also been
instrumental. in 2015, there was $2.5 million committed to develop a heroin response strategy. prevention,s education, intelligence, and law enforcement resources to address the heroin threat in 17 states and the district of columbia. so while we have laid a firm foundation to address the heroin crisis, much remains to be a. for example, we do have gaps in our capabilities to recognize fentanyl coming through our borders. we certainly have difficulty stopping poppy cultivation. while my remarks have focused on the supply-side of the opioid crisis, we must addressed opioid -- address opioid issues as a public health matter using substance abuse prevention and treatment strategies and support services. budget report,
president obama proposed expanding the availability of ones for evidence-based strategy for treatment and to extend the availability of substance abuse treatment providers. we will continue to work with our international partners, enter-government agencies, and work at the local and tribal levels to stop fentanyl and to stop the dangerous effects that these drugs are having on our communities. thank you for the opportunity to testify today and i will be happy to answer any of your questions. i amubio: thank you, and going to defer my questions, because other members have to be in other places, so i will wait. i will turn this over to miss boxer, and defer to her questions. , in 2008, mr. foote
mexico passed a series of reforms, new laws to promote greater access to justice and strengthen it measures to combat organized crime. measures that would make the mexican justice system look a little bit more like our own. these reforms were intended to be in limited by 2016. ofre does the imitation these institutional reforms stand, and how has the united states assisted in this process, and how do you feel about whether they really are doing what they are committed to do? thank you, senator. as you know, mexico committed and passed legislation to implement new criminal justice systems, which is an accusatory ial justice system like we have ourselves. in mexico's states, 24 have implement this and put it at
and nineevel crimes have created this at state level crimes. is an ongoingis process, and mexico's not going to meet next month's deadline. we continue to work closely with them on a number of issues, thanks to the gracious appropriations of congress. dedicated approximately $250 million for these efforts between the department of state id, training judges, prosecutors, courtroom personnel, law students, over 4000 have been trained to date through the department of justice's prosecutorial training program. number of law schools and institutional thanks to theams american bar association and a number of universities here in the united states.
we are preparing law enforcement for their new roles in the accusatorial justice sector. for instance, our department of justice partners have trained thousands of law enforcement in crime scene situations and in forensics, fingerprinting, and other collection there, so that mexico can comply with international standards. ms. boxer: ok, thank you. what i am getting from you is that there is progress being made, although not everyone will beat the deadline. report. optimistic and so that leaves me to my final question, which i alluded to in my statement. as we continue to work with the mexican government, and that is just critical, we have to, we have to work with them to reduce demand, we have to work with them across the border to reduce the supply, and that is where the rubber meets the road in
most of these areas. but we need to work with mexico. i am concerned about the rhetoric in the presidential campaign describing our relationship with mexico. i know it is a tough question for you. i just want you to say what you feel in your heart as we need to know. mexican officials have said on the record that some of the proposals ventured on the campaign trail, we know what we are talking about here, a candidate who is talking about building a wall, having mexico do it, insulting mexican home, thatere at some of the proposals would have a cataclysmic effect on our bilateral relations. rhetoricabusive affected relations with mexico at this point? has impacted the united states's ability to work with the mexican government against drug trafficking and are you concerned that that type of rhetoric could just completely undermine what we are trying to do here? mr. rubio: i just for the
record, she is not talking about me. [laughter] [applause] ms. boxer: i am so not talking about you. [laughter] try to strikeill a balance of answering your question and not wondering too deeply into domestic policy here. ms. boxer: i know it is a tough one, but you know what? when people talk, it has real-life impacts, especially a present with nominee. have all seen some of the reactions from the south of our border, or mexican brothers and sisters, you have seen president vicente fox's reactions and others. from the embassy bilateral level to the date, we continue to work very closely together. in my personal opinion, we don't -- i do not believe it has gravely affected our ability to do business together. mexico, in the last several months, has reiterated its
commitment in continuing with where thetive populace of mexico stance on this may be another matter, but we continue to be able to work closely together bilaterally. ms. boxer: so the words -- so the words haven't had an impact on what is going on at the very top levels, in your opinion, on the work that you are doing at this point? mr. foote: not in their dealings with us. ms. boxer: that is excellent, and now we have to make sure that those policies never come into effect. thank you very much. mr. rubio: thank you, senator boxer. senator menendez? mr. menendez: thank you both for coming here today and thank you both for your service here. , how many agencies are involved with respect to mexico's order to meet, and our interdiction,op to stop flows, how many agencies are involved? mr. foote: usa's agencies?
yes, thank you. mr. foote: i know the department dea, the fbi, the department of homeland security is heavily involved through customs and border security, homeland security investigations going on, our military supports some of our efforts, mexico's military, and then we have some ancillary agencies who are based in mexico city, which is while their chief focus isn't the border, they do, peripherally, work as it touches atf and the u.s. marshals. mr. menendez: and if you had to guess, how much money has been spent on interdiction and eradication efforts in mexico since the start of the epidemic that we are experiencing here? what would you put it at? mr. foote: my understanding is $2.5 billion have been
appropriated, of which billion hasy $1.5 been obligated or committed to specific projects, of which we still have at this point about with new initiatives about $700 million. mr. menendez: now you are of your organization specifically? mr. foote: excuse me? mr. menendez: are you speaking of your organization specifically? and i am not in a position to comment on the department of justice's group. mr. menendez: i look at all of the agencies that you mentioned, the department of justice, the dea, homeland security, immigration, alcohol, tobacco, and firearm, and i think to myself, that would have to be billions, collectively.
and i5 billion dollars -- was one of the architects of the initiative, which i support, what $1.5 billion later, billions between all of our respective agencies and what we have is an opioid epidemic. and so one as a policy maker has to take a step back and say, what is not working? because something is not working. if billions of dollars later is what you see as a spike versus a trend in the other direction, then something is not working. so if i were to say to you, it's not working, what do we need to change, your answer would be? mr. foote: first of all, senator, i think we have in the past few years come to the realization that this is a shared responsibility between the united states and trafficking countries. i am heartened by the senate's recent passing of the opioid
legislation, it is something that is going to help us. certainly mexico specifically, their capacities are far greater than when we started the initiative in 2007. this has led our own u.s. law enforcement agencies to onerdict significantly more our southern border due to mexico cooperation. we still do have a way to go. i think we also need to get better hearing united states and demand reduction at treating the health issues of addicted people. it is a shared responsibility and it is no longer just a supply-side issue. mr. menendez: so as i listen to your response, is everything we are doing is good, but there is not a significant reduction on supply and demand, but there is not anything to suggest that we
are not doing, and all i can you at and say is that if are spending billions and instead of the trend going the opposite direction, it is going, it is rising, you have to raise the question, what is it that we are either doing wrong or what is it that we are not doing that we need to do in order to meet the challenge, because otherwise, you can appropriate billion and billions but still find ourselves in a trend that is undesirable, so the only thing i heard from you in your response to me was doing more on demand and reduction, which i certainly believe is true, but i didn't hear about anything else. know, you have to question whether or not the continuation of this kind of expenditure in this manner is the right policy. let me ask you this. do you believe there is significant coordination, seamless coordination, at least on our side of the border, as it relates to all of the agencies
that you suggested are engaged within this fight? mr. foote: senator, obviously we can always get better at everything we do. the department of state kind of works from the southern border south, so i don't feel that it is our position to comment on interagency coordination north of the border. have of the border, we robust interagency coordination through the country team at embassy mexico city that we can -- embassy mexico city, what we can always get a little better there. mr. menendez: are your mexican partners, are they doing everything they can in order to meet the challenge on their side of the border? mr. foote: during the beginning o'st of president pena niet
administration, there was a pause in plan merida as we did a mutual assessment of the security relationship, and over the past year and a half, we have seen much closer collaboration ando's administration, there was a pause in unprecedented openness and frankness in our bilateral dialogue, to answer your question, is mexico doing everything they can? they could improve. some of their efforts are not yet at the optimal level, but we remain optimistic and positive that they are moving in the right direction. mr. menendez: well i appreciate the optimism, but i am seeking to introduce a little dose of realism into it, and so part of the challenge is, you have in some of the northern parts of mexico where i have heard u.s. citizens from the region who have come to talk to me say that many who had businesses and long-time relationships with the media side of the border, they basically cannot operate their because the federal government's presence, ie, the federal
government of mexico, is not there. if you have uncontrolled states, then you have the opportunity for drug traffickers to avail themselves of that, and it seems to me that while i am incredibly strong and have been for 25 years of u.s.-mexico to beonships, we need sure that we are making the progress that we need for here and from mexico to regain sovereignty in parts of northern mexico that are presently doesn't have. thank you, mr. chair. mr. rubio: let me just use some of my time that i for to interject, secretary foote how you discuss the assertion that another bus was used in the situation where students disappeared in a heroin northern region of mexico near the u.s.? mr. foote: given that we have
not seen the results of the final investigation from mexico, i am not in a great position to answer that question right now. we would be happy to answer the question for you in record in writing. mr. rubio: ok. senator kaine? thank you, mr. chair, and thank you to the witnesses. first of all, to get a scope of what is happening on the mexican side, with black tar heroin, is the poppy production still one particulare mexican state or in other areas? is once confined
to one area but now there are two major growing areas in mexico. there are very kind of small, sporadic parts of the country, and then the other person. mr. kaine: and the fentanyl is labs,labs -- is made in and i guess it is also made in labs in china, is that how it is made in mexico? mr. dudley: our understanding and our work -- mr. chester: our understanding and our awareness in drug trafficking has increased over the last six months, so in order of magnitude, i cannot tell you, what what i can to you is that china is a significant supplier of fentanyl to the united states, ordered by individuals on the dark web around the internet and using the postal service to ship it directly to them. we also know that fentanyl is shipped into mexico, in some
places mixed with dilutions and smuggled across the southwest border, and there are precursor chemicals that are shipped into mexico that can be used for the direction -- for the production of fentanyl. to the vectors coming into the united states, those are the two main ones that we see for finished fentanyl coming into the united states or it is manufactured in mexico. mr.kaine: i want to talk to chester about your written testimony, i am sorry i didn't get here in time for your oral testimony, that on page one, there are several factors contribute into the heroin crisis. in theilability here u.s. market, the availability of pure forms of heroin here, and a ofatively small percentage people transitioning from prescription drugs to heroin. i'm trying to unpack that statement and i'm wondering if your statement puts enough of a
finger on the prescription opioid problem? mr. chester: i had heard it stated through michael botticelli and others that 80% of those who od on heroin in this country, not fatal ods, but all ods, started their addictions to opioids on prescription opioids and then transition to heroin because they could get it for a lower price. is that an accurate statement? mr. chester: no, senator, and i'm glad you asked that question. of the numbers of individuals opioids andally use then transition into heroin, that number is actually relatively small. mr. kaine: for nonmedical users? mr. chester: that is correct, the users of oxycontin and traditional guy that got it from a medical or got it from friends
or family memories, the percentage of those who transition to heroin use is relatively low, it is about 3.6%. conversely, of the individuals -- individuals who use heroin, the nonmedical use of opioid is a strong risk factor for eventual heroin use and even the medical use of opioids can we risk factor for eventual heroin use. that is right. so, you know, opioids in and of himself have an effect on the body, and it is a very addictive drug. in veryts the body unique ways because it is an opioid. so if an individual gets them from a doctor or whether they get them from a friend or family member for nonmedical reason, they are at risk of eventual opioid addiction if not used
properly, that is correct. mr. kaine: and you cite in the testimony that it is a heroin,ly low price, of and that is relatively low to past trends, but also compared to the cost of opioid-based prescriptions, correct? mr. chester: that is correct, so the street price of a gram of heroin compared to the street price, if you will, of an opioid pill or oxycontin pill, is lower, that is correct. that is what we consider to be one of the contributing factors. the purity has all contributed to the current crisis that we have, that is correct. talkedne: mr. foote about what we have done in this body and we are trying to harmonize that in the house with the heroin recovery act. we really believe in here and i think is now bipartisan because we are seeing it all in our states, but if we don't get a hold of the culture of over prescription and opioid-these prescription drugs, we are just hollowing out communities,
suburban, rich, and poor. and this is a drug that can come out of a medicine cabinet. this is somebody in a white coat who is handy zebedee a prescription that says this will do you good and is not going to do you any harm, driven by in adequate science, driven by, marketing scams, and that is inextricably related as a heroin issue, so i think it is kind of hard to deal with the heroine issue in an abstract when we can't talk about this culture of heroin prescription when we can't get to an end. last question to ask and it is probably too early to know this, but in terms of the growth of the number of hectares of poppy production in mexico, do we have any evidence to suggest that that is in all connected to the legalization of heroin in the united states? i have heard it said, and i don't know where their is any evidence to back this up, that
the legalization of marijuana in some states that has allowed marijuana to be grown has taken hectares of land that would be used for marijuana cultivation and now we don't have a market for marijuana anymore so we will switch to poppyseed or black-market heroin. is there any evidence to that? mr. chester: we have looked at crop transference and i can tell you at this time, whether it is too early or it doesn't exist, we can definitively say that farmers have switched from one crop to another in mexico. we can't say that with any degree of authority at this point. mr. kaine: but that is something you are going to continue to monitor? mr. chester: is something we will continue to watch. mr. kaine: great, thanks, mr. chair. you are both experts at this, very few people wake up in the morning and say they are going to shoot heroin for the first time. there is a gateway to the heroin use and a lot of it is being
driven by people who are then they opioids and become dependent and the opioids are cut off and they are going through withdrawals and the only thing that could address those withdrawals if they are not in treatment would be heroin. absent that, what is the other gateway, how does someone get depended on heroin minus the prescription drug gateway which we have already discussed? mr. chester: and that is a becauset question you are dealing with the various people engaging in various behavior. we do not couple of things, but heroine in general terms is kind of at the end of a trajectory of long-term drug use and that a high number of drug users are actually poppy drug users so they are not an exclusive heroin drug user, they get the drugs that are available to them because of that, and because of the high availability of heroin, that is why it is heroin. the other thing we look at and
the other thing to look at in surveys is that we realize it is youth behavior from the age of about 13 to about 18. -- 18 is a very strong factor in risk-taking behaviors, in terms of underage drinking, tobacco, marijuana, that nature. in shaping youth attitudes, that is something that they will take with them for the rest of their lives. can't say isat we put a figure on this or that for any particular reason, but we do know that the availability of drugs in society obviously increases the chances that an individual who is inclined to use them is going to intersect at some point and i think that is one of the discussions we had about the availability of heroin being a driving factor. mr. rubio: but just understand your testimony, we talked about the pill, but what we basically are saying is that if someone at some point earlier in their life begins substance abuse of
alcohol, or whatever it may be, an intoxicant of some sort, we now have begun a potential trend to find what is out there that is better, what is out there that is stronger, whatever, so what can unleash this cycle that basically set these dominoes that basically leads to the heroine point? sir, ander: yes, again, it is not direct causation, but it is certainly risk-taking behavior and patterns of behavior and that is strategies,ention particularly through programs like the drug-free communities program and that ondcp manages are incredibly important because they are locally-based and they allow trusted individuals to be able to speak to people at very, very young ages for things like that and they talk about foreign substances in the body and things of that nature, and so they are able through
evidence-based revenge and strategies to be able to talk to people who are at those young ages when they are vulnerable piecesry these kinds of of information with them through the rest of their young lives. this is the most important hearing we are to have on relations with mexico and china this year and i thank you for it. is to mye of fentanyl way of thinking kind of the most important threat that we have to families in the united states at this time. i'll just give you some numbers. 2015, 57% oftts in the opioid related overdose stats in massachusetts had a positive screen for fentanyl, 1390fically of the individuals whose deaths were opioid-related and who had a
opioid screening available, and 74% of them had a positive screen for fentanyl. we can talk about prescription drugs, we can talk about heroine, but fentanyl is now the issue. is, new england, we talk about this and the issue comes upbecause it from mexico to lawrence, massachusetts and then it goes to new hampshire, upstate, but massachusetts as well. so the pathway is china into mexico then into lawrence, massachusetts and then into ohio and into virginia and into florida. and when it is over half of the deaths now in massachusetts, it -- aearly a moving threat looming threat that is a preview of the coming attractions to every single city and town in our country, so that is why this hearing is so important because it gets to the question of what is mexico doing in partnership with china, will will start --
china, we will start with that, mexicote, but what is and china doing at the highest levels in order to interdict formula --ympathetic new, synthetic formula that is lacing a drug 50 times more powerful than heroine, so powerful that the dea doesn't even let their dogs any longer sniff for fentanyl because the dogs will die from the first sniff from fentanyl. ofee grams, the equivalent three salt grams could kill a human being if they gain access to it. what is mexico and china doing in cooperation with you in order to interdict that drug? senator, first i will
talk on mexico and china's bilateral relationship with us on this. with our support, mexico and china are discussing a federal regulations every year and they are involved in multilateral sides of things and just last year, the general assembly on -- the u.n. general us and we on chinawere involved with and other minister of public security and he led the conclusion statement that they were fully on board and that they are a member of both countries for the three international drug conventions. we also sponsor, in the united states, two annual fentanyl and precursor chemical conferences with mexico and china. mr. markey: so how successful is this effort so far? mr. foote: that is a good question, senator. fentanyl is a new problem for the department of state and il and it is one where we are -- and inl, and it is one where we are applying lessons over the
year and at this point, we are working as hard as we can to have success, but i can't quantify that. mr. markey: since it has been elevated to the highest level, in other words, with human rights and copyright in range meant, is this issue now at the highest level of negotiations with the chinese government and with the mexican government? mr. foote: it is. marchester went down in with our folks and spoke to a large, interagency group headed by the attorney general of mexico on this issue. china,larly engage with our diplomats are going to china ,ext week at a very high level diplomatic engagement where they will raise it, we rise it jointly with a liaison with a narcotics working group that meets throughout the year. we have actually seen some
positive signs from china. mr. markey: what is the evidence? if you were going to convict them of doing something, what would you used convict them? mr. foote: to convict? mr. markey: to convict china. what would the evidence be of convicting them of doing good? mr. foote: of doing good? we have seen encouraging progress. last year, their minister of public security officially controlled 160 new substances including fentanyl and they have expressed high receptivity in having received new information on new synthetic substances to potentially control them, so they are doing something. that there is more to be done on their side. mr. markey: clearly, we have the evidence in 2015 from massachusetts and that is going to be worse this year in 2016. there is a slim evidence that this thing is being slow down.
in fact, it is intensifying. and it is going to kill. it is going to kill ultimately tens of thousands of americans every year. every year. there is no other threat to our country that even matches that. every year. so if we don't stop that, it gets worse. every other issue will be a footnote compared to the magnitude and the impact on american families. chester, could we just go to mexico. what is the level of cooperation you are getting from the mexican government in interdicting fentanyl coming into the united states? we know that el chapo and his gang have been responsible for the traffic that comes up to lawrence, massachusetts, but pretty much the whole country, so what is your success level with the mexican government in getting them to understand the magnitude of the tragedy of the american people? mr. chester: senator, i personally have been down there twice and have dealt with the mexican embassy of there and
here in the united states and i will tell you that they we takend how seriously this issue in the united states. they understand that this is our top-listed drug priority and they also understand that it is not just heroine, that it is heroine and it is fentanyl. in a meeting down there in february, i put fentanyl on the table and i won't say that it them, butt-heard for they weren't really familiar with how serious the issue was of the united's dates. by the time we had gone down in march, later with director botticelli and director brownfield, that was part of the problems that they agree to work with us moving forward on, so i will tell you that the mexicans are understanding the importance with, that we place on this issue. they are very engaged on it. and they are willing to conduct joint planning with us on the issues not only of poppy eradication which addresses the heroine issue, but also allowed
identification and neutralization, specifically on issues of fentanyl either creation-- of fentanyl or others as they are transport across the borders. littlekey: well, it is a bit disturbing from me if, from ofr testament, it is a case first impression from a law-enforcement officials in mexico that they are just hearing about fentanyl and it is just getting on their radar screen and it is february of 2016, given the fact that more than half of all the people who died last year in massachusetts, opioid-related, had fentanyl in their system. that is quite disturbing with me. i am willing to be honest with you. thatld like to have heard president obama has raise this issue with the president of mexico, president obama has raised this issue with president president xi-
jinping of china. do you mind if i discontinue a little bit? little bit of hope here that there is an aggressive strategy placed on fentanyl and that it has been elevated to a level where there is a no-nonsense conversation going on in terms of the expectations of our government. mr. chester: right, senator, and in terms of your concerns, i know that president obama raised these concerns with president pena nieto. mr. markey: the fentanyl? he raise the fentanyl issue with them -- raised the fentanyl with them? mr. chester: i will have to check. mr. markey: it is not heroine, it is fentanyl. fentanyl is showing up in a
majority of the deaths. so you are not sure whether he raised that? mr. chester: i need to make sure that fentanyl was between the conversation between the two of them as well. mr. markey: and you as well, has the state department raised fentanyl to the highest levels with the chinese and mexican governments? mr. foote: we continue to raise that to the highest levels, and neck -- week we willd next -- mr. markey: what are the highest levels? certainly secretary kerry has raised it with the chinese government. mr. markey: ok, thank you. of rubio: just a couple points i wanted to raise, why lawrence, massachusetts, why new hampshire? -- wirethese targets these communities targeted? -- why are these communities
targeted? there arer: senator, a number of variables, one is the existing structure, the existing trafficking structure in place. in some cases, it is transportation efforts, in some places, there are areas in mexico that have trafficking from particular areas, or the geography of a place lends itself to further distribution. there are a lot of reasons why -- u.s.ubio: but the northeast is very far from the mexican border. why don't we stop them along u.s. 95? mr. chester: we believe the existing structures that were there before, and when we specifically talk about fentanyl , one of the things that we have looked at is that we have tracked the fentanyl crisis and why the northeast?
why the northeastern united states? why so much? why not the western united states? and the reason why is that fentanyl is so easily mixed into the powdered heroin which is preferred in the eastern united states as compared to the black tar heroin, which is preferred in the western united states, and so those are the preferred markets in the united states. being introduced into powdered heroin landed in the united states and we are increasingly seeing it being pressed into pill form. but fentanyl has found a market in the eastern united states probably because of those two reasons. mr. rubio: i spent some time in new hampshire in the last year and from that experience, found myself in a lot of small townships throughout new england that face an overwhelming problem, all of them that were specifically targeted perhaps because trafficking networks knew that they had smaller police departments.
if you are a small township, you are not going to have a 1000 officer department. is that what they look for, in essence, looking for a place where they can set up where they can go against local law enforcement numbers and agencies? don'tester: senator, i know. i don't know whether that was because of a sizable population or the size of a police force was the reason why. but to your point, it is a matter of deep concern that we find increasing numbers of heroin or fentanyl users in rural areas that are starting to use the product alone. and they are far from treatment and they tend to be farther from first responders. these are all things that make this particular crisis particularly pernicious, the fact that it has moved into a lot of rural areas, which is not something we have seen in previous outbreak of heroin or other opioids. mr. rubio: i know that this is a national issue as opposed to a transnational one, but increasingly, because supply runs demand, the supply means
these traffickers now have supply other hand and are being more aggressive in fighting market share, and one of the things that i kept hearing a lot was that they were specifically targeting treatment centers, especially outpatient treatment new peopleere the were getting treatment and they were waiting for people outside where they could tempt them to buy, they were specifically targeting recovering individuals perniciouse of these drugs, this is a pernicious, discussing industry that weird healing with here. i want to add since the arrest of el chapo, secretary foote, mexico has, i believe, a concerted policy to round up the drug lords and while it is positive that these organizations are being decapitated, have we seen any evidence that the arrest of a high-profile individual impacts the ability of these organizations to continue to function? potifically, since el chapo
arrest, is there any indication that the organization has been impacted by it, or is it now functioning the way a corporate entity would, irrespective of who is at the top? mr. foote: senator, while my personal experience is far more robust with colombia, where i led programs several years ago, we have seen where the kingpin being arrested does certainly affect an organization. the question is, how big is the structure? how organized is it? and how quickly can it recover? that is farestion better pose to our drug enforcement administration guys than the state. mr. rubio: let me ask you about colombia that is not directly related to the opioid issue, but nonetheless, cocaine. they suspended their aerial eradication program of sensibly fear that there lash back.
there is a deforestation effort and eradication effort cause an irritant into the area and the peace process with farc diminished in other areas. for the first time in a long time, there has been a massive increase in a cocaine production in parts of columbia that we haven't seen in a while and the assumption is that cocaine is going to get sold, it is going to go somewhere, and that is something that we can expect in the next couple of years in the united states. do you have, irrespective of the reason, do you have a view of what these new numbers mean to the u.s. for the years to come? mr. foote: we are concerned suspension of aerial eradication. it is a sovereign and decision of president santos and the colombian government and we believe while eradication and aerial eradication are not magic
they are an important tool in the supply-side eradication, and eradication has been a big part of our strategy in columbia. we continue to work closely with the colombians on the successor organization, which is peace columbia, and we will see which way they want to go and gets theesident santos peace process resolved. mr. rubio: and here is my final question for the panel, and i thank you both for being here, and i thank you for your work which is both labor-intensive and difficult. we recognize the problem that the senator just pointed out a minute ago, the production of synthetic fentanyl, the growth of opioid poppies, and my understanding is that the amount of opiate and poppy-based opiates grown in the western hemisphere is a small percentage
of the overall production in the world. in your view, or if you know this, how much, if a poppy-based opiate or if fentanyl is produced somewhere in the western hemisphere, mexico or somewhere else, what percentage of that is sent to the united states in particular? senator, we believe that mexico is the primary supplier of heroin in the united states and that the united states is the primary customer for mexican heroin. that relationship in the western hemisphere is fairly solid. evidence, anyany widespread evidence, of southwest asian heroin, afghan heroin, or mise heroin, coming to the notice states, -- coming heroin, states, but we do see mexican heroin as the
primary supplier to the united states. see a risk of breaking down the mexican supply to the net's, do we open the door for others? mr. rubio: i think it is pretty see a heroin you overdose here in the united states, it pre-much came from mexico, or the fentanyl came from china. mr. chester: that is correct. mr. rubio: should it be basically assumed that all of it is being grown there, you can see it from the camera pictures being taken, all of that is coming to a city near you in the united states? mr. chester: that is the ascension we make him a senator, yes, that is correct. mr. rubio: well, i want to thank you both for being here. did you have a final question? mr. markey: no, i don't. thank you so much. to me, this is the top concern. it doesn't get any bigger than this. it is great to have you here and
to know that you are the principal people knowing on this issue and i think it is absolutely essential. asked, let me just ask you this, mr. chester, your title is associate director of the national heroin coordination group. do you think it is time for us to just change the name to the national heroin and fentanyl coronation group? do you think we should change the name just so it ever ties is correctly what is going on to the american people? mr. chester: senator, when we began our work this last fall, director botticelli stood up in this group and created it to provide against efforts i guess the heroin and fentanyl problems. in our work, what we determine is that we were going to be handling heroin and fentanyl as the same problem. what has evolved over time and what we are working on an planning on with working with inner agencies is that we have discovered the incredible importance of fentanyl more so
that what was identified six or eight or nine months ago. the other important thing about fentanyl that i would like to bring up is that the fact is that the emergence and the visibility of fentanyl is driven almost entirely by the is doneem testing that on individuals in overdose deaths around the country, and in those areas where the testing is done and the fentanyl is tested as part of a toxicology panel, you begin to see more. so that leads us to believe that looking about the heroin and the fentanyl problem, we have a significant fentanyl problem, that you identify, that is increasing with this mass supply of heroin. so we handle both of them is of the as part same a supply set and we deal with them in the exact same way. mr. markey: no, i appreciate that, so that is why i'm asking