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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  August 10, 2016 10:00pm-12:01am EDT

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diversity. chris: president obama said early on he wanted an administration that reflected america. we needed this or this or that, it was just we should look for diversity of people and as clay says, every study that has been done on this in the context of organizational dynamics says the more diverse set of views around the table, the better the decision-making. >> diverse could be age. democratt think that versus republican, it is about a well-managed organization. >> i agree. >> when you do the policy panels going agencies, do you see that as a concern? or it just another policy expertise? do you sit down and say, look at
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this group. they're going to the labor department and they are all this one kind of person. they all have a strong union background, for example. >> these agencies are huge. the agency review teams are relatively small. the expertise is that the that you focus on the most because you want somebody who knows the faa and the fair labor standards act and the substantive needs are great at that point. again, you also keep in mind that you wanted to be a diverse group. you want to make sure you have a variety of perspectives. one thing about transportation may have been 13 on president bush's list of top agencies based on his agenda, but come 9/11, leon panetta is making a lot of important decisions. up tomes you set yourself
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pivot to an issue that is unexpected but how you set up the personnel that you want. example, you want to find the best qualified people because you asked never know, even if an item is not your top agenda, you never know something will come up. when the big things that happened during the first term of the obama administration was the deepwater horizon spill which devastated the gulf coast for about three or four months. we appointed, we nominated and confirmed that a secretary of energy, a physicist, a nobel winning physicist and while his lead inid not have the the response and recovery efforts, have a physicist on staff who then got detailed down there and could actually help to cap themechanism
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oil well, that falls under the category of others duties as assigned. -- other duties assigned. that is what you want to get the best people on your team. to sam not necessarily looking for the best but to do the work, who would say that? who would do that? so late out there as what your goal is, we are finding the best people to do the work. turned out he was a fantastic guide to be the secretary of transportation. but we knew, we predicted that hit, in internet when 9/11 important that transportation be led by an extreme we knowledgeable person, we had one. >> someone congress could count on. say one of i would
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the most effective cabinet members we had was ray heard, republican congress and from illinois that was placed as secretary of transportation. haveot sure anybody would said at the outset that this 12 or 14 term republican caucus congressman would end up being an effective secretary transportation but he was because he was good at what he did. demands from the having someone from the other party. about when you think you are -- is that it than you think about when you are sitting down ton that -- identify the cabinet? incompetent.son is advantage?among
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the five people that would do a good job, does it matter that one is a democrat. >> diversities good. -- diversity is good. when the cabinet is seen around the president and the president throws out a sizzling issue are in a cabinet meeting in some of the other party sitting there, i can tell you, this may not go down well, diversities good. all different standpoints, diversities good. -- diversity is good. >> can you talk about how come you start with the candidates and have been assigned this responsibility, he had taken care of the transition, you have walked into the white house and now you have this job for three or four years we are carrying agency ambitions and the and you decided is time to go do that job down in the weeds.
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how do you make that decision? [cheers] i will tell you -- >> i will tell you having >> this decision, we have all had a tude of different jobs, when the president asked you to do something you do it. i do think there is value in having people move throughout the government. many jobs and political jobs are really high-level project managers. it helps to have expertise in those areas. the people who understand how government works and understand , youo craft and implement can use those people throughout the government. madeeryone of these people the decision at some point to lead the white house and go into the better of government, into the executive branch. >> you are in the executive branch in the white house. the president suggested to me,
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i've been the personnel guy for two years. got almost all the positions , you want to said role?about getting of the i want to make sure you don't get burned out. i said that is great. but i would like to do is be the deputy director for management. >> why? bring method to madness. that is what i do. there's a lot of madness and the federal government so there's a lot of method and i think i would be good at it. and he said go get them. i got nominated. he brought up the idea. make suret people -- they're not a flat learning curve. excited about the daily challenges.
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in my case, i had enthusiasm. >> why labor? >> i had not worked on labor issues that i had a passion for what the department of labor does. we help people find jobs and when we get the jobs, we protect them on the workplace. it was hard for me to see a more noble way to spend my career. it was also a chance to work with a really dynamic secretary of labor with tom perez people are reading about these days. and working hard challenges. i had spent most of my career as a political person but what i lacked was true management experience. when you are the deputy secretary, you are the coo of a massive organization if that means budget and hr and i.t., these are the nuts and bolts of the organization and that was a challenge i wanted to make and i was fortunate and got that opportunity. getting down and focus to
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peace and/or prosperity. labor. >> most of the work of the government is done in the agencies. a lot of young poets come to the white house at think, i'm in the white house, i don't want to go anywhere else. because thethem to practical expense to get, you are working on programs, most people out of the country know much more about the department of labor thing to do about the lip -- white oak. you can make a difference in those jobs. you want to office of management and budget as well. >> that is because the president asked. >> not because you bring the madness? >> it was similar to clay that it was a management position and ended up being interagency work.
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>> is there a point at which you , on electionsay day we had these tell things, these were the 12 banks most important to the president that made up the big book that just talked about. key items. and they are all gone. or we swamucceeded our length of the relay and it is time for something else to pick it up. out there and executive branch, there all caps of responsibilities. someone has to make sure the faa radar system working and that is not terribly sexy thing but that is an important part of the government so you get to a point where you say, we are replacing the president's agenda with this regulatory responsibilities of maintaining the government.
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there's been seven years and we have done all we can do. there's still a lot that we need to do as opposed to want to do. somebody still have to do these things and that is an important part of the labor agenda of the democratic party. how do you keep doing that everyday knowing that there is a time it is going to run out and you need to be preparing the , if there'sion going to be another democratic administration, you have been in this situation where there will be a successor of possibly the same party. time to do time -- spend preparedness got to get ready with the problems facing labor or management regardless of what party? they are the statutory things. not the big legislation. do you know what i mean?
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fortunately, or unfortunately given the state of gridlock, you never at the point where you have gotten everything done. until the very last day you will keep trying to push her agenda forward. as we have learned and i think future presidents will learn given the dynamic in washington, the agenda of your agency will be the agenda of the administration. we will continue to have .ivisive government the billions of dollars of grant money that the federal government gives out, the multitude of regulations and initiatives that derive from ,overnment agencies is the makes it a competence of the white house tried to push. >> the record of the administration will be what you have done the record
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administration that we set out in this big book that josh was talking about we want to check the things off, didn't, didn't, didn't wear in the end administration is just the list of things we checked off we did? we got health care past. those of the website of a competent. did we get a comprehensive i'm a change legislation done? no. but we were climate change treaty we have signed. changesdone significant in the missions of motor of motor-- emissions vehicles and trucks. you can either go about it with one big legislative a which is what people often think about or 10 regulatory changes which may have the same affect. >> it is not an on-off switch.
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you're continually working on the priorities of the administration. during even when vice president gore was running for president, the clinton administration was working very hard to a cop was all the things that president clinton wanted to a copy. also to the other part of your question, you have a discrete set of people that are working notransition and so it is an either/or. >> is that an important thing? if you're worried about transitions, he need to have a discrete people -- group of people whose job it is to focus on that. >> if you want to get anything done, he to have discrete people. you have to have discrete people. falseneralizations are including this one. one, the primary
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reason every government organization, every government in the world does not work to satisfaction is because they don't have, they don't govern with desired outcomes in mind and there's little transparency about how well they are performing relative to the goals they do have. the federalcase of government and every country and every state. the goals are outcome oriented and are specific enough attached to the money available and not tied to time frames. it is hard to govern if you have specific goals and if you make the goals transparent, fairly clear and you make transparent how your performance into the goals. president,ed to the a president, i propose to him that his next data being addressed said this is what i
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want to be held accountable. actually proposing to his speechwriter. here what i want to be held accountable for the next four years. a compass any of them, they have civil so little regard for federal government that you will be held accountable for what you are going to do that they will be stunned that you have proposed this. maybe it is too big an idea. the genesis of that, the essence of that is why government does not work better.
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there is no, here's the we promised and here is that we want to do and what we need to go faster on and so forth. there is little transparency to how we are performing relative to that. >> some of that is the gotcha game. why do we want to make it well known what is not working? did you ever taken eighth-grade civics class? china's somewhat on democracy and wonderful things happen. that is what that is. we need to figure out how to springboard some might to what orple -- sunlight to look up to caucus. -- accomplished. moon att a man on the the end of the decade. mountains move when that happens. the president's management outcomebush 43, to find and goals -- defined outcome
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goals on a quarterly basis with how to perform relative to the goals. issued a scorecard, red yellow-green. agencies notice and were highly motivated. we celebrated when they got the green. it was incredible. the congress resisted it because it is harder for them to be members of congress. you can't get bridges to nowhere if you have goals. [laughter] general, that is listed as he got through it. there is for a little list making with what we have a cop was. accomplished. you are sharing with your stakeholders how you believe you are doing well. what is the question now? [laughter]
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believer that you set clear goals and make your best efforts to do them. i'm not convinced there is one way to a compass those goals. -- accomplish those goals. the traditional way of passing laws, the school rock version, it will be a long way -- time. >> can we talk about other ways executive in nature? how much do you depend upon -- if you are setting aside a team, that team is set aside to help prepare the next administration, is that he mostly the political people you have brought with you that represent the agency at the administration and person or is it a group of civil servants who
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are the professionals who face these problems day in and day out and have faced these columns all day of all their lives? is it possible to sit down and say president obama has a long list of goals and the department of labor that we have yet to accomplish and we will fight for those every day until the day we walk out of the building and the responsible decisions that have to be made to help the exit administration get ready, we are going to lead to the professionals who have faced these problems and the transitions to new administrations regardless of party. >> i don't think it is an either/or. i don't think it's the political people running through the tape until june 20. in the career people are doing the turnover, handover. regardless of who is my successor, because the party, i
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have a lot of things i want to talk about. what you do realize and i know you do, what other states realize is that the majority would have in the government is not partisan. it happens regardless of who the administration is. there is a broad agenda. the notable to government in terms of the programs with minister are not partisan. you just want them to work as well as they possibly can. management? any administration in the last six months trying to launch prepared, better well to feel at that. -- fail at that. it will not happen. the important thing is that the white house and his agency
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leadership, department leadership agree on what we are going to what our priorities are in terms of how we will run our business for the next -- last six months. they would all agree that they're not going to try to get some new bill passed or cut this thing in half because it will not happen. you get agreement. you will not have some rogue agency out here going off and getting three new balloons launched when it is impossible. the second thing is, because as we have talked, because the standard for handoffs between outgoing and incoming and administration has been set so objective your viewpoint, because the work by the obama coming in and push standard, that is a
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that the obama administration has to live up to and they are mindful of that because they were the benefactor and they praised and they wanted tell be held in the same regard as the bush administration to be held in. it is a very high priority. you don't want to get second-rate status to that responsibly. thing, the agency primary responsibly for welcoming 18 in if the crew staff. and is theteam career staff. peopley this new career who are going to lead this effort and say, is talk about what the priorities ought to be, what the proponents of a well-organized welcoming strategy ought to be in here so we ought to do and here's the information and you are in charge. motivated toly
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implement that the company really want the new boss to like them. that is human nature. make that the best welcoming speed.nd get them up to the agency will benefit from that. from june 20, 2017 -- >> july 20. >> have you had this conversation? >> it sounded exactly like that's. this. it is not to say we will not continue pushing agendas and stop setting the table for the next administration of purchase we help implement, we are also sort of thinking about what are the longer-term transition issues, what are the documents we want to prepare for the new income secretary and the new incoming team.
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>> we will turn questions to the audience now. wait for the microphone. transitions,ck to there was no discussion about the transition of congressional leadership as a goal or idea for an incoming administration whether it is a really good administration. gridlockto me that the , and a lot of people in america think it is because the leadership in congress. i'm talking about both the house and senate. that?tention paid to it seems to me, if i were president which i will not be, that i would want my guy, as
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much as possible to be in charge of the senate and in charge of the house. my guy or gal. that that has some problems in and of itself. they have no control or influence on that. they are elected. >> that is part of the environment. executive branch meddling in the legislative branch. texas wasw. bush of not try to figure how to get rid of the public and leadership in the house and senate on the way to be president. that was not part of my plan. the way the congress looks as to whether congress looks and you have to deal with that as an
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issue. it is not something the president -- >> it is set up to be independent. dayarly on after election you set up a series of courtesy visits between the president-elect and the congressional leadership, whoever he or she may be 80 tries hard as he can to form good relationships and find areas of common agreement. that becomes more challenging in this political dynamic. >> is there any thought of personnel that there would be more continuity of the same people regardless of more bipartisan and that may be a staggering of taking over and something considered in the future? >> that is the way the state of texas does it. positions are termed as though a
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third of all positions turnover every two years. positionsfull-time that run all our state agencies. there have been some such a solution -- legislation that has reduced the number of senate confirmed positions and kept them as political positions removed them from some confirmation. i think about 160 or something reduced out of 1200. there is recognition of the but i don't know that there's a clear thing that ought to be done that has not been done. >> i think that has a lot of merit. there nothing democratic or republican about homeland security or national security with the faa and i do think having everybody turn over on dayay creates -- one
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creates risks. any new president wants his around people and their and that becomes a challenge as well. >> the country of australia, where there a new administration eight jobs change -- change people -- in the united states it's a couple thousand. senate confirmed positions. >> the director of the fbi is oppo-taco appointed and is confirmed by the senate -- political appointee and is confirmed by the senate. aren't most regulatory boards termed? >> right. >> a fair amount of the administration is to find what it is common. -- when it comes in.
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recognition that we needed federal reserve and the central bank working. there may be some vacancies but they are not, they don't all leave. >> [indiscernible] president obama said to the secretary of defense, please stay in place and tell your people to stay in place until somebody comes and stands you down. unusual practice. either but it is possible to do that. >> it was not until i had the privilege of being an appointee
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that i really understood the process. i come from the private sector and had the opportunity to serve president bush. i will tell you, it was my expense to relocate, it was a long process to go through the security clearance, fbi checkpoint and you really don't have any security in your job whatsoever. i came first term and hope we got a second term in fortunately we did. i was one that got to make changes from one department to another but i just want people to know that it is really quite a process from an appointee's point of view what it is that you are changing in your lives. i did not come from the political campaigning even though i was active, that is not how i was not. i was recommended because of the position i had in the private sector in the community. to recognize the thousand or two that make
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changes and alive to have the privilege putting forth the president's agenda and doing the work of the service of all americans. i want to say thank you to the three of you who have critical roles in finding people like myself who never got been in the years that we would have a chance to work for the president of the united states. i think you have touched on an manytant topic about the disincentives of serving in the government. i spent an entire career helping out would never have to go through senate confirmation and august the i did for this job. i had a relatively smooth are opening but you your life up to a lot of people. every aspect, when i was in college i wrote a column for the school newspaper and asked me to get a copy of every single column i had written 30 years ago. i said i don't have the. if you want to go back and pull
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them down, feel free to do that. they looked through all of my social media. once i got confirmed, because the department of labor regulates every company in the country, acted divest every single stock i owned. you make a lot of personal and financial sacrifices for these jobs. that is a disincentive for people serving. letter, i found a copy of the is one of involved in serving and it was scary. it was all the things chris talked about. thisave to comport with and everything that has occurred in your life. andhave to live with it take public blemish.
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we wanted to say, make your people have some understanding of what they might be getting into. that was therson head of the personnel at the beginning of bush 41 and i said, look at this thing that want to put it on the website so many good to thought the application, you have to read it before. he said this is way too negative. i said perfect. [laughter] >> in some ways, a leadership is about getting people to do sacrifice. i think the amazing thing is there is an enormous number of people who are actually willing to sacrifice. >> people say to you, thank you for your service to our country. where else do you get that?
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a great privilege and honor and it is hard work. >> anybody else? >> how big is the transition team and how the transition team formed? >> for bush 41, it was one person. before hand. up byhe transition, ended ofny were 19th -- january 19 2001, there were 600 people. some of them were just hanging around. it were 600 people doing a lot.
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by october of 2008, hundreds of people working in a suspect by had 600 700,000 people apply electronically. -- all have >> 400,000 people applied online. we had over 600 just on agency reviews. we must have had overall probably a hundred thousand. -- 800,000. >> at one point, it was just one person. it always starts with just one person. >> it is a massive management effort. it is longer than 77 days.
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we had our teams in place prior to the election. it has to be. >> you have to start sooner. pointers toart -- be processed to you and says you're in. figured out. >> that was a year and happy for the election. >> and chris, barack obama says to you, you are it. figure it out. and their fortunately our organizations for the institutional memory of the first thing i did was i went back and talk to jim thompson ran john kerry's transition and handed me a docs -- box of his documents. attic of then my three different democratic document.
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face was wee we were drawing on condition that had never been omitted. you can do all the planning you want, but you had to see how it worked before he can assess the effectiveness. we were flying a little bit blind but with john podesta, did you an incredible level of expertise. >> i sorry, we're out of time. maybe you could ask your question right now. >> it occurs to me that the confirmation process is broken for both the mccutchen republicans. in the transition, it is so important. is there any effort to reach out to the senate majority leaders and senate minority leader's to agree on what the rules like be
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for the confirmation process. not who will be in the government, but how do we get the president's appointee into the government faster than we are able to do now? >> it is on the to do list. if the white house is going to have, instead of normally seven people as special assistant to the present level who drive the ,mount of work that comes out if they want to get 400 people in there by the august recess and set up to a 25 people is typically the number of people confirmed, they have to have more than seven people working on it. nice to be 15 but the senate does not expand their capacity to the fbi does not expand their capacity, and the government ethics is not expand their intelligence department, then it will just go back up.
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it will not flow through the process. there have been general discussions about expanding capacity but it has to be, it has to take place again this fbi and the senate leadership and i don't know whether they'll be represented were not. ,f the candidates are expecting he have to start with what their goal is. if the goal is to get this many are that many company to sit down with the senate and say we're going to send you twice as many people as we normally do. together so that does not get hung up? they will have to figure it out. even in the best of all worlds, the senate does not move very fast. it is not designed to do so. it is a body that runs on its any onensent to senator was to block something, they can hold it up.
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that happens we are trying to move as many nominations as you can. if one senator raised their hand and says i don't want this person to go through, you get stopped. even the vetting before it even gets to visit -- phones. >> if you -- vote. >> if you reach out to the , if one of the other could win, could it not be some sort of effort to make an agreement between the two senate leaders of the party and how some of going to limit the things that are getting in the way. i recognize it operates by unanimous consent but it was not always so. theham lincoln appointed secretary of the treasury it was
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confirmed that afternoon. he fired him the next day and sent another one up. it is not impossible. we've gotten ourselves somehow saidthe situation when one wednesday want to punish the other side and when the other side wins in its revenge for past actions. it is to be interested in the democratic or republican interest for that to happen or .uch labor countries interest >> it is also senate prerogative. we worked on an initiative just to streamline the paper part of it. there semi-funk to fill out. yet at the thing question in three different ways. we went after it this way. even tried to get that there is a challenge. it is, i completely agree with you. places where there are so much room for improvement. the senate fraud to committees and jurisdictions something we have to continue to work with.
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getting it to be more favorable puts more of the people is one thing, but that is irrelevant if they can't bet -- vet them in a reasonable time. the vetting. their capacity has to be ofsistent with the volume potential nominations that are coming at them from the white house. that is why the country some effort and there is none. a point about what is broken in washington. something you said where it is not in the senate's interest to hold up these people. i agree. but it may be innate individual senators interest and that is the problem with congress. it is the individual interest of the member of congress versus what is good for the institution where what is good for the
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country. that is one of the reasons things are as broken as they are right now. >> we are out of time. thank you very much. [applause] >> an update now on more members of congress and their states and districts during the congressional summer break. the house and senate out until after labor day and we have been following what a number of members have been saying and posting to various social media websites. this tweet from senator john cornyn from texas, he was visiting the alamo and his tour was led by texas land commissioner. despite the heat, and joint official alamo hyundai for briefing on reimagined the alamo thank you george p bush for leading. in washington state, senator patty murray talk to lgbtq is as owners.
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at the sugar pill shop. an apothecary business. tweeting business leaders this morning. meanwhile, west virginia representative evan jenkins met .ith members of the community at the commercialization center and this picture you can see him .ith a robotic lawnmower and representative shelley market visited a farmers with agriculture secretary kevin. some pictures posted to facebook from that visit. we continue to follow members of the house and senate during this congressional break. again, the house and senate back after labor day. live coverage here on tuesday.
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on c-span2.h the >> talk about the hacker conference known as black cat held in last vegas -- las vegas. they want to reach out and let from packers about one abilities in the government if the structure. -- she was joined by a white house-- former white house cyber security director. this is about one hour and a half. >> good afternoon, everyone, and welcome to the atlantic council for this months cyber wednesday event, and welcome to everyone you know someone. i director of the international am
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security here, and i am really excited to be able to watch this the and learn. today's events looks like it will provide an exciting and relatively unique at least for washington, look , into the devcon, black hat, and the conference just wrapped up last week in las vegas. most of you know thatthat defcon and black hat were founded in the security professionals, 90's. lawyers, federal employees, and even some politicos this year. the conference features presentations and hands-on training and content such as capture the flag. a competition where teams attempt to capture and defend networks. the size of the community driven
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conference that coincides with other major hacker conference is taking place in cities around the world. fresh off the plane from las vegas today so we can have all , the biggest jokes, today's panelists will summarize dozens of hacker presentations and briefings delivered at this years conferences. we hope the bridge the technical and policy communities. we want to help translate the solutions delivered by hackers in vegas into more informed and digestible policy options that government officials here in washington can consider, develop and execute. this is part of our monthly cyber risk wednesday series, which is designed to bring cyber experts together with experts from government and industry and policymakers who examine topics at the
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i will keep this short so we can core of the mission. learn more. let me introduce the panelists. i will not go to the full biographies, you have those. dr. lori trainor is at the federal trade commission, where she is response before devising the chairwoman and developing policy matters. she delivered a keynote on protecting consumers in the age of connected devices at defcon and delivered the opening keynote. the panelists we are calling space rogue is a strategist at hannibal security warehouse clients find the unique advantages of continuous monitoring and security challenges. he has testified before senate committees and has also served as the editor for the hacker news network which i hear is getting more popular than the cable news network jason healy is at the international school for columbia international
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affairs. he is a nonresident senior fellow here at the cyber initiative here and was appointed director of the initiative. he delivered talks broke up by cat and devcon and is on the call for papers review board at.com. moderator, his focus is on the intersection of cyber security and the human condition. i'm really around cyber safety. he organized the i cavalry track and is one of the volunteer operators called goon. before we start, i want to thank our media partner passcode from the christian science monitor. i encourage all of you to join usualtwitter using our yber.
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during the q and a session, we will answer questions from the twitter stream. i strongly encourage you to submit such questions and with that, panelists, please take the stage. let's begin. >> hello, welcome. i'm bill woods. deputy director of the cyber initiative. good to see some of people crammed in here on a nice august day. i know august is typically vacation much -- month from other people. i'm used to see people here eager to hear what happened in vegas. i want to start by doing a little background on what the heck community looks like. i'm somebody has been quite a deal of my time in the past 10
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years engaged with the hacker community or the security research community events like devcon, black cap consomm the others. is probably the only one i know of that goes to dozen conferences a year and brags that never seen or talked. it is a running joke and kind of trooper you go to these events not for the content because they are almost always recorded and put online for free later, but because of the interactions. it is an incredibly diverse and vibrant committee. there's about 2000 events that happen every year and information security committee and of the last count from a group that was tracking that for the soundtrack in. if you think about it, 2000 events, 52 weeks here, sounds
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like a lot of events. it is hard to keep up and attend even some of them. i think that one of the things that make this community great in one of the reasons that you because the it is pace of innovation is so great right now, especially commuter -- computer connected technologies is that the only way to keep up is to be embedded within the communities. movestrue that government slow, that is by design. you don't want a government that moves too quickly or they will miss some of the important, butter trends. -- broader trends. corporations and the private sector move faster. the only thing that moves at the cutting edge is the communities of interest that form. particularly the hacker
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communities, so the other groups that have spawned that get together. this year at defcon, there was a bio hacking group that was doing implantable chips in your hand. if you ever wanted to have an r fid chip in your hand, next death con you get a chance. i want to give a little perspective on a couple of the congresses and then turn it over to j to give perspective on some of the others. conference is about to news old. catuns concurrent with my -- black hat at the start of the week. this year, there were 2600 participants across not different tracks in today's. this is a conference organized by the community for the
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community. it is 100% free entry. they get all the things paid for by sponsors and by donors. they have a huge donor community. for me, it is the best part of hacker summer camp is going to this event because this is where all the people who don't want to go to black hat but our competitive -- compelled to go to vegas by the companies, they go there. that's where we ran the eye and the cavalry track. at defcon this year there was more than 22,000 attendees for tracks. 10 villages. which is basically a truck within a track or a conference -- and then 40 or more events that this a and unofficially. does not include the nighttime events. a huge community.
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something the size of a public university the sending of vegas and taking over a few hotels. that is essentially what this is. andbest part is the contest villages. that is where you meet people, actually interact. there's a joke in the hectic unity, how to contact revert from an introvert, the extroverted looking at the other persons shoes when they are talking to them. that is a stir type we need to bust. all of us have been there and we interact very well. i say we interact really well. they do we don't. the contest and villages and event space is our chance for all the people to get together and talk and learn from each other. this year there was a car hacking village where you had the opportunity to go up and sit in a chrysler vehicle modified
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in such a way that he could play with the shock absorbers so the hydraulics, it was pretty cool. we have lessons teaching people how to hack cars. it was a really good chance to engage him on from the community at large and some of the best people in the world, for the my village,uns or hacking craig smith and he was sitting down with people he had never met, never heard of your just hobbyists in the garage and if you buy doing things i've never seen in all my time hacking cars. that is really amazing. there is also muffled capture the flag contest which is basically red team, bleaching, offense defense. had you hack something, hadi defense of the. had you get certain targeted treasure chests? some of the level of skill in these competitions are what we can only be done by
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nationstates and instead you have hundreds and thousands of people were engaging in these types of contest. i think that can satisfactorily bust the miss that only a nationstate adversary is what we have to be worried about when these tools and techniques are available to everybody. it is very easy to take advantage of them. we also had an irt village before the highlights was they had a remote controllable wheelchair. i don't know why you would remotely control a wheelchair. somebody has made this thing. was driving up and down the halls without anybody on it because someone had figured out how to control it. that underscores some of the direction we're going to miss completely connected world. now that we got everything connected and everything is accessible and it can be
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controlled by someone who has a small degree of technical skill and a willingness to use it. there were at least two sitting congress people, to that i know of. in past years there have been more at the event. i think that underscores the importance at least to some tople in d.c. why they want get engaged with the community. with that, i will throw it over and to talk about black hat the cyber grandchild. >> thank you. how many folks have been to the rsa information security conference? a fair amount. black cat? defcon? rsa is an information security conference. there is a booth they will shine your shoes and the money go security. death con is not an information conference. it is the hacker conference.
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the money will still got to charity and they do not shine your shoes. you get a mohawk. i guess i did not done enough to charity because they did too much. hacking, driven by curiosity. try to understand the system and figure out if you can make the system do something that you want it to unit that is not what necessarily what the makers of that system originally intended it for. andthing that hackers hoodies and people making mischief, there is the element to it. but it is still a lot of people that are just fascinated by and getand want to try in and understand it. so black cat happens in the earlier part of the week defcon later. b-sides are on the flipside the conference. one of the things i cannot a black cat was we were very
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pleased because apple came and announced the bounty program. you may have followed this. this really came up in the news most in the last couple of hacks with the fbi apple were at the unwanted access to the apple phones of the san bernardino murderers and they ended up using a vulnerability that they bought the use of it came out that apple is really the only become a left that did a bounty, the amount of money that they would pay if you were a security researcher and he found a bug. they would list your name on their website at that was it. they would not offer any reward or money. so now the have bug bounty's up to $200,000. i saw some hackers that were there that were awarded one million points from united because they have found all of these points on united and that
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led united airlines said that we will reward the security researchers that find these bugs. there indepartment was force. they been pushing and try to get out the vulnerability exposure programs. that was one of my big takeaways. seen the hackven pentagon program for security researchers to try and find these bugs the pentagon website. apparently it was just a win to call it packed the pentagon rather than some kind of .ureaucratic name what also, one of the things that came out that was surprising to many of us in the community and got a lot of press was hackers for hillary. there was an event on wednesday.
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these conferences from the early days, we'll talk about this. it was so apolitical. you had a spot the fed contest where if someone was there that was maybe a federal agent trying to infiltrate the community, it was your job to try and spot them. and if you are there, he would try to hide inactive spot appeared anywhere. this committee and now you have in this political event and there are probably 30 people at the event cohosted by jeff moss. he is known to us as jeff moss our senior fellow and is known as the dark tangent and is cohosting the event. maybe 30 people and maybe an equal number of journalists covering the event. but it really caught a lot of people at the maturation of the field, all of a sudden now we matter.
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we used to have to go to d.c. to testify and now does come to us. i will hold off right there. on your hackers for hillary event, it shows a maturation of mostly of the people that are attending. 20's,ted this back in my i'm in my 40's now. there has been people that have gone, it has gone on for 24 years and people have sort of growing up with that. we're also seeing a change in government attitudes towards hackers. 20 years ago it was nothing but fbi raids. 90 have groups like commerce and dod and foc who are reaching out and try to bridge that gap and try to exit that knowledge and expertise and think hey, come help us out. we are seeing a change from a completely adversarial
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relationship between government and the hacker community and it is starting to fall a little bit with there is a lot more cooperation. it is not completely followed but it is getting there. thawed, but it is getting there. >> something other history. congresst in front of in 1988. distinct point to all user handles. they are on the official records. senator john glenn,wrote. -- called me space rug. gue.we made it a big point of only using her hacker handle. that has changed. i now use my real name. me space still calls or space rogue. that is my identity and who i am. it shows again a little bit of
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the change of the relationship. the loan fed on the pencil -- panel. i spotted the fed here. >> i was on meet the fence panel. >> we used to spot that said where we would spot them and now invite them to a panel to sit there and engage in a productive conversation. >> they got to be too many pets. -- feds. >> it used to be where if you spotted them, you get a teacher. then i got to be where there were too many of them here. [laughter] >> why didn't you tell us a little bit about why you are out there and what you found valuable? >> we were out there and we brought our own fed t-shirts to
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where so we were easily spot of all. shirts andcial there's a secret code you can crack on them. i made it up myself. we were out there because we to outreach to the community and let people know what our agency does and that we are interested in hearing about research that people are doing that can help us understand vulnerability, especially in iot systems, give us ideas about how we can protect consumers from scams, from fraud, and we wanted to make those connections. that is why we were there. >> in the spirit of creating your own closing line -- clothing line, this would not be bringing defcon to d.c. if we do
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not have black hoodie for all of our panelists. we have special atlantic council exposed to produce for all of the panelists. and thennd these out maybe we can hold them up and get a photo op. that, ifhe is doing black catblack cat -- rsa, he get a bad spirit because it is a hacker conference, it can't just be that simple. year, it is not just a badge, it is a circuit. board and has input, output, everything you need and people are out and there are bad competition for the hackers are going what will this badge let me do. what can i do with it. they will ask to get in and discover what the badge does. but told us what your job.
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-- let us hold the sweatshirts up. caller: i did not have enough. -- >> we did not have enough. the hackers have more hoodies than the general population. stereotype confirmed. >> you mentioned the badges, j, this is one from the car hacking village. it is like the intel community. the more badges you have, the cooler person you are. >> this is something graded by some security researchers and it has a tool on the end that plugs into your car said this at the
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onboard diagnostics port of your car in a plugs in and you can start reading out the codes come across your porch. this is one from the bio hacking read on if this will medications so you can actually read the implant will chip in your hand, i may have them. can also be credit cards with this and with any of your passports if you have a badge to get into your house or your come ife, because of you get too close to me i might be reading it. then i can impersonate you by plaintiff back. -- playing it back. >> this underpins so much of black hat and that can't. defcon. they will have thoughts on how you can improve your business and improve your password program. these conferences are about that we have got this technological
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infrastructure, we don't know how it works and we assume it is secure. we assume there are people at the taking care of it. what has been running throughout thisfor 24 years is that, is a gathering of folks that are driven to understand this technological and for structure and to come out and try to figure out all these ways that it is not secured. that is wise is it so good to see the government out there to isrt seeing if anything it legal to have curiosity about this object and figure out how saying these people are figuring out how the stuff is completely insecure, much of work aswe better quickly as they are discovering things and we that her work as quickly as we continue to spew out ever more of this technological stuff, or else it is all going to end in tears. out, here ised what we do, here's how las vegas handles camping machines.
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it covered all these controls that las vegas includes. some of can inspect it if you as a player think the machine is fraudulent, you can go talk to the inspector. there are rules and independent testing. an election machines, on buggy machines, none of that is true. it is legal to go in and try to figure out how it works. it is not independent testing. they have very limited powers compared to vegas. that is what this conferences are trying to get to. >> would you say it's easier to game and election machine than a gaming machine? lot coming come up a out of the dnc hack. calm of us are trying to our attention to the election machines because of the russians were going to mess with elections, there are a lot more direct way to do it. digital millennium
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copyright act on election machines that takes place this year after the election. it allows researchers to look at the systems and see if thereupon abilities without fear prosecution. that is a big thing. a specific exemptions that want to the copyright office, libra congress, very difficult to get. i hope to see a lot of researchers taking that up this year and look at those machines. atler: >> at black cat, -- black hat there was an election machine. >> at princeton university, they did some research there on but he machines and they still have the one better that is playing pac-man. the security level of certain devices they had some good comments earlier today i saw about what it would mean to make those a critical and for
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structure. >> there is a common or movement, i'm not sure exactly where it came from, of making election computers that they can should use the term computer instead of missing, as critical infrastructure. my pain is that comes with a bit of baggage. we arty have some industries label as critical infrastructure -- already have several interest is slated -- labeled critical in perspective. we have organizations in place to take care of and look at the systems and certify them at the national level. electiontary commission on something, allows local governments and a lot of people forget that local governments are the ones in charge of elections. it is a county level or city level. that is how we have always run our elections. the claimant critical and for structure kind of changes that.
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-- declaring them vertical infrastructure kind of changes that -- critical infrastructure kind of changes that. >> there was a lot of iot hacking going on. whether you consider home devices, couple medical devices, obviously cars, did anybody go to the car hacking village? >> i walked through it. >> it was packed. >> there were several talks countries aspects of car hacking. charlie, theand famous hackers there, they had another talk at black cat. there were several other people who are also presenting research that they had done another vehicles. ftc has hadears the
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to do some things and has a contest for stopping rubber colors and everything. what were you guys doing this or? not have any contests this you. we are working on cooking up some new contest. listen there mostly to and to average. -- outreach. >> whitney was running up privacy and crypto village. >> the villages are like a conference within a conference. >> it's interesting that you were there to bring people into outreach. earlier that you went to it and did not bring any talks. the biggest part of these smaller compass as i go to is the hallway talks. hallway hang out in the
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and talk to people. i get the most out of any the conventions of the hallway talk. meeting people and engaging with people i can only do at the conference. for most of us we have been there several times. i think it is your first time. >> yes. >> most of the folks have not been, you are probably this bridge between d.c. and what you saw. tell us a little bit about what you observed as a first-time attendee participant? >> i started the week at the side. conference andll much more accessible because there's less than 3000 people there. still somewhat chaotic. i gave the keynote talk so imagine a really big room. there are vendors around the
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edge. in one corner there people learned how to pick locks and other corner, their people hacking something, i don't know what. in the middle the eff booth. i was on the state tried to talk to these people, most of whom were standing or sitting on the floor. that target the keynote talk. did get somed i audience participation. i made them raise their hands was chaotic but a good experience making people. and show me how to use it. it did not take very long now. i now know how to pick locks. i ousted a career panel where
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they were intervened people so i their careers and talked with them about the various careers i've had and took a lot of questions. then i went to black cat and this is a very corporate, very polished event and there you get name badges with your name on them. there is no name on this badge. completely anonymous. the b side was like a poker chip. corporate, flashing lights, this whole breaking glass thing and they broke last sound when the speakers came on stage. area was a big vendor where everyone is handing out free t-shirts and i brought back a whole big bag for my bag -- kids.
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don't have to go back to school shopping. to defcon and it is like 20,000 people. to payre a lot of lines and get into the sessions. it is very chaotic. so much creative energy. you see all the people soldiering. the contest were also very interesting. the challenge was exciting. , teamsernment challenge had built computers to hack it to other computers and the teams had nothing to do with event. the computers are just going. commentary andg visualizations to make it exciting.
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the other pilot to mention is be there as a woman, there is only about 10% women at these events. isolating and for the most part, i found it was a fairly comfortable environment but there were still people defcon, at.com -- . >> going back to the challenge. i had always seen this as the kasparov versus the robot and if they are machine is the better hacker. here and hownet be many of us will be left in the end? interesting, the winner of the grand challenge, the team that has the current faculty , the winning team and
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team was also from c and you and they played each other. the human speed the machine this time. at the machine did pretty well. theet me get some depth on cyber grand challenge. it has been going on for a few years. have, theye want to have this capture the flag where you get a team of humans will and a series of computers they will have to defend the system and try to patch it as well as going out and trying to attack all the other hearing teams that are playing. so darpa said, can we do this autonomously so that, they ended up with seven finalists of supercomputers that have to to be built and programmed by these teams. they had basically a made up pretty system, a program that would pretend to be e-mail in
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another a pretend to be web. and the computers, the referees in theelease new code supercomputer for have to keep the code running because they get points for availability, they would have to spot any fun abilities in that code and then decide when it was best to patch loss availablest he and when it found bugs, go out and try to hack the other teams that have not found an patch that yet all log a try to figure out if they should pass first or hack first until i think they know it. technologically, the challenge is a step forward. i applaud darpa for bringing that. five years ago, i don't think we ever would have seen that. with that level of federal involvement. the fact that darpa was able to do that really shows how both groups are starting to come together to defend the territory. >> there were 600 or so bandar
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believes the built-in and i think the computers found something like 350 or 400 of those. they found a bunch of bugs that the programmers did not know they were there that the referees did not know were in the system but the supercomputers founded and they included some famous bugs from history like the one that led to the morris worm and its computers were finding an patch of them in my five minutes. i think mayhem was machine that one and they competed in a human capture the flag and did not do as well. sweden have to worry about skynet today. maybe next year. >> that's good. the theme of this year was rise of the machines and actually, there's a big prize at the end of the event for some of the best competitors, the best contest. .nd they called the black badge
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if you get the chance, go out and look at the video the thing. it is made by hollywood special effects this. badge, the eye pops the team that one of the cyber grand challenge one $2 million. i don't think they would do that protons computer security. i think it is too bad. i hope you will do another one of these. i was expect such a challenge to be picked up by another organization. i could see that being a contest in a couple years. there's a small contest that -- i'm not a database
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person. you have to do database commands play space game to take over the universe. a lot of this was people he manually doing these database commands so that can run it 100 times. andwinner built-in ai tickled to be able to play this game and came out with i think to a 99 out of the 300 prizes. i think you're right. n will continue to be a place or we will see the rise of machines. >> at the what to talk about the talks. we got about 600 talk. , we had little that down to about 80 that made it through.
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let you know the hackers are to sit and where the tensions are going. there are a lot of internet things going in. especially unlocked. locks, maybemart bluetooth locks you get close and enter the code. and be able to unlock those from half a mile away. a lot of these locks were not or in a clear so all you do set up an antenna with modest knowledge and you can see what is going on and he can do these. the security was so bad you could bump and open with a screwdriver. we are tend to get that balance are good here does, something designed for security, a freaking lock and it was still
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sending passwords in the clear. it was not tried to encrypt the password. it was really incredible. seeing a lot coming in to talk about cars. a lot on drugs. drones. there is some interesting stuff on there. i saw a talk by a gps spoofing to drop a drone and make it do what he wanted. that was due for commercial drugs. this is how i ran supposedly took down the u.s. dealt drugs a couple -- stealth drones a couple years ago. is done to get some easy that one single researcher can control it with a joystick and there is also, left on the cars, another set of chinese researchers doing interesting
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work on how to get there off the sensors on autonomous vehicles. all different ways of going off in differentnics ways to confuse and defeat the sensors. it is still a research project. you can easily see how in two or three years from now if someone wanted to, they could equip a car for this and cause havoc on the roads. ofther one of these examples cure his come in and say we are building this stuff and we have the dependence on it and yet the dependence is misplaced. >> i think there was talk about ransom ware on thermostats. a ransomarch is but ware virus that they manually anded onto a thermostat they went through some torturous death to get it on there but it demonstrates that home internet of things, devices that have
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this type of thing on it and if you think back of march, the atlantic council release date paper on smart comes in we called out these types of things that we had a really cool confidence in area where the internet of things in your homes is taken over by hackers in their breakdowns between corporations try to compete with each other in what can be the possible outcomes so i will take a. -- >> when you see the stores cannot, you should always ask, one of the first things we do is how do you have to get access to the system. some of these, you basically have to trick the user into putting code into the thermostat.
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if something it access into your hotel room, they can get into the computer. that is one of the key questions. >> at black cat this year -- looking at corporate into the attack. security that it is more secure?
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>> hacker jeopardy. supposed to be a fun contest. i do a lot of work in'usual securitym -- i went to an interesting talk with a forensic linguist who was analyzing skin couldne calls so that we
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do telephone scammers. >> i will merge them altogether. i won't mark at the level for --eraction
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i'm a little surprised at that and scared. when i would this program and how this has picked up, how can we that the cross the two communities. when we have technologists, they don't want to be senior fellows.
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>> we were off by, probably what -- off but two orders of magnitude. the matter fact, laughter it was too. two bodybuilders. i was worried in the crowd with herene with my background, was, a former white house got delivered this message that nsa in the u.s. government is less evil than you think. and i cannot egged
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visibly been hacked yet. i was really worried about that talk. the biggest surprise was the quality of the people there technically to be able to do things that i had, even with my background i had not expected to be possible. the guy who won the car hacking challenge, he was the 21-year-old, he had a hat that said i just turned 21. he is been out partying. he managed to do this in a number of hours. graph when to see a you there, a projection on the wall of everybody was gradually gaining points and that he came in and went from virtually zero to done in a couple of hours. 21-year-old kids able to do this, that underscores the capabilities that exist in this community.
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the worst thing with the crowd, 22,000 is a lot. we're going to need a bigger boat. >> i think they're going to caesar's extra. -- next year. >> we will see how it works out. it has more bottlenecks. the takeaway away as everyone else has seen, the amount of collaboration, cooperation, interactions among everyone ande, fights between feds hackers, fortunately for everyone, i think the worst was people falling asleep because they had been partying all night and being escorted back to the elevators to go sleep. with that, i think will open the floor for questions. room first.in the
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>> a number of our people were there as well and glad to hear that the congressman in the federal interacting with some assorted people in the room. the question i had was whether any of you heard policy complaints from the hackers and the technical people you talk to. specifically people complaining about the agreement making hard to work for hackers internationally. how that might be fixed. any other complaints to hear. are they still nor in washington dc? -- ignoring washington dc? >> problems with it and how are , recent actions that have been brought under the cfa a. . that was a big topic of
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conversation. hallway always in the track, you hear lots of complaints about lots of things. hot policy was one of the chief complaint. -- policy was one of the chief complaints. we have run our own ship for a long time. we bring security to the security conference because know the actual security people at the hotels and private contractors can figure out how to do with us so we run our own stuff for a long time and within the past two years there has been a noticeable and position do, these -- dc on what we what we consider our ground. naturally have a side effect to stress when the policymaking is not as technically knowledgeable as the people in the room. peopleheard a lot of both in the room, especially if
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you sides, and the periphery talking not about how bad the stuff is complaining, and say we need to mix it, how do we think wase for policy and there come as you mentioned, and cia, and it was also in the cavalry track. policymakers to explain the recent policymaking exchange. i think there is a growing attitude among security researchers and the entire community that like it or not, policies here just a, being imposed upon currently in we need to flip that and figure out how to make something that makes everybody happy at least the most people happy with the most technically literate for policy. there's a growing movement of
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people tried to get involved with the sec has an open comment period to access the many commented previously they may not have gotten involved in just lots complaint from the sidelines. hoping that effort continues to grow and infects other people in the community. >> it was a hundred people standing room only at our panel and we got questions about how to be more effective when submitting comments. cfaa is always good to be an issue. others are always going to bring criminalizen't curiosity and phrases like that are extremely common. both, and christian was always good to be a tough one for this. -- encryption was osgood to be tough. almost yelling at a
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cryptographer that estimate questions and this is your problem to fix, what are you work harder. encryption was osgood to be easier. blood on this issue, it'd probably little bit. one of the congressman that was antonio,ll from san forget which district and he had consulting for one of the computer security companies called region next he was of the community before he got elected. one of the few people on the hill with a computer science degree. >> it is his great. and getting it up in their the community. >> i would love to see more
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elected officials get involved or goat and us to talk to them. there are enough of us more than willing to have meetings and sit downs and put a child because i think it is important and are a lot of other community -- people in the community want to gauge. -- the community. -- and engage. some staffers out there, a lot of staffers which is great to see and more more staffers who have a background in computer science and other technology fields who can bring the knowledge and education there. we will come to twitter and pull in a question. what is the fcc's stance on end-to-end decryption? ftc would like to see
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encryption used to protect consumers. we don't have an official stance on decryption though. >> i didn't make it out to the conference but lester i was at it and the common theme for any of the fed's was basically a recruiting pitch. come work with us, come work for us. things of that element. the pastor we have seen significant movement on the policy side with defense. as carter has put forward the force of the future initiative which is supposed to increase the ability for cyber expert to get involved with the government. he brings chris lynch from the defense was a black hoodie to
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worst -- wears a black hoodie to all of his millions -- meetings. on a basic level, there is more communication but is it working? 's finale going is to work for is thatrnment -- outreach actually bringing people in to provide the town? -- talent? >> there is a dramatic shortage of cyber talent throughout the industry. the government is uniquely situated to attract some of that talent. it is not always about paychecks as a lot of people know. government attract a certain caliber people and some of those people -- if the government plays on that, it will attract people. it will be difficult just like it is difficult in the radio industry. i work for a company we did free
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recruiting -- three recruiting events to try to get qualified candidates. we have just as much trouble as everybody else. i think it is issue industry wise globally but the government is uniquely positioned to take advantage that only the government can take advantage of to attract those people. program is line direct commission like a kernel some hoping to see a kernel space wrot -- colone space rogue. there is also a willingness to engage in the mechanisms of working with the community there hacked the pentagon, disclosure programs, and bringing people in a nontraditional ways where it is not some a full-time job but they're able to engage.
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lori, you are a perfect example. you are a fad, you are in the government, but after your tenure you will go back to the academic world. increasingly, we're seeing people come in midcareer or senior parts of their career for a short-term stint with the government and a bunch of the themselvesed to view as a career change. i would do this for a two years and that i will go back to academia. don't currently have a lot of positions but we are very dissident collaboration and bringing in faculty members for sabbaticals for student internships. having them come down and said don with us and those partnerships have been incredibly useful.
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>> we will take one from twitter now. do we think that as a result of this new effort to bridge the on that we going will soon see better more technically literate and foreign so, how longif before that kicks in? see think we're starting to it now for little bit. it is a slow process. things to my move quickly. we have been working at this for years and years. as new legislation is introduced , those bills at least my spirits, everyone gets a little bit better. so hopefully that continues and we start getting to the point where there are bills that would like.
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leslie involved and start commenting, our fears will not be heard and i see that increasing over time. is a sense amongst a lot of the hackers i know that that it break into it, is not secure. that is not the way that policy works. policy is always working to compromise. if you can make it better, then you were last year. we are in this race. can we get good enough before things role at iot? the more we are increasing the vulnerability and exposing ourselves. still have that tension. we -- progress is slow. we are seeing it. in congress, and the regulatory
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has ans, the ftc now office of technology which started about 18 months ago. we are bringing that expertise into the agency. in an try to prevent increasingly the agencies are hiring more technical experts who are being involved in the policymaking process. >> if you look at the type of engagement over the last years, the fda was out speaking on the be sidetracked and one of the things she said with the engagement with the community is what is helping them become better at doing their job in the state dynamic field and i know that there have been several other agencies have engaged and were closely with security rigid communities and better off for it. , if i canill start summarize, maybe it will start with the agencies and the different hands-on part of
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government and move their way up through legislative and potentially judicial and other areas. can came in the hoping -- be the hope. i'm wondering about hackers from nontraditional accra. guys who don't have degrees, backers -- guys who don't have work expressed. a lot of the kids i know don't have any of that traditional experience and it does not say to be a traditional career track for those guys. what can i say to the younger hackers who have the background, how do we get them into the industry doing the right thing? >> my career track is very nontraditional as well. i started working in retail selling computers.
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eat this was on cliche, follow your passion. learn what you want to learn. do your own research. publisher findings. it's easy to publish stuff. follow what you like to do. become an expert at one small thing. once you become the expert, someone will pay you for the knowledge. to break into the industry. in the meantime, yet the working computer sales -- you have to working computer sales to pay the bills. it sounds cliche but it is just focusing on what you like to be and what you would like to do to you reached the point where you're the expert and 70 wants to pay for that knowledge. -- somebody was to pay for that knowledge. >> i get home of the same advice to my policy students. you have to get out there. we are publishing different things and be an expert. even if we don't want to be an expert in what you have the expert and, just being a hiring
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manager in the person can be expert, good. i know they are trainable. if anything, this field is very open to people that don't have a college degree. it will hurt that desperately to get them into government if they don't have a degree, but with as much venture capital money as a has been in this field for 15 years, tell and good ideas will come through. >> taking a nontraditional role is more difficult than going high school and or your college and grad school in job. it may be more satisfying depending on who you are and they help you in the long run in your life. it varies from person to person and what path you want to take. it is very much meritocracy driven. you have the knowledge and there's a shortage of people, you get the knowledge. i would to consider going back to school.
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-- say, consider going back to school. >> i've noticed in the security community that there is an inverse relationship between education and status. some of the people at the top finish high school but also noticed in publishing there's an inverse relationship where the academic majors, the lawyer be right, the more respected the paper. and ours, 140 characters is all you get. back to the audience. >> i have a question, this has to do with, if there hackers without borders? like doctors without board. i was in cuba and there in the process of getting internet. they have people coming in from india to set it up. i talked to mid-level government official and he was saying, are
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you going to have americans help you with the internet security? and he said whoever will help us. america -- an in american. going into third world countries and second world countries and helping them with infrastructure and security? >> there's an organization known as hackers for charity which is actually the charity itself trying to bring hackers to various organizations. operate --ly primarily operate in uganda. they try to move their headquarters back to united states and bb assistance for other charities. i done enough they are just didn't go to cuba, possibly. there are some efforts like doctors without borders, i would like to see more, bigger efforts. especially in developing nations. it is a big issue for developing
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nations that they need that assistance. i think it would be great if we use the peace corps or whatever to try to bring to expertise to some of these other countries. >> there are a few others i can think of. when his geeks without balance bounds. they do some things even notice on exactly that. there's also one called securing change. >> i like that organization. it is very small. people, the other hope conference. hackers on planet earth. they meet every two years. hackers can get to it because it is chief in downtown manhattan. downtown manhattan. there was a big theme of people going to third world countries and setting up mobile phone infrastructure around the villages and is not in the towns
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that otherwise can't make a long distances. they can talk to each other. otherwere several attempts to get outside of the first four countries and help people in other places not to impose technology when it is not wanted, but to engage and help with they are being pulled in as advisors and technical experts. i would love to see more of that personally and i would love to go to cuba and set some of that stuff up. my boss probably doesn't want me there. >> there's also a trend among academic peers has programs to have their undergraduates to go and if it isgs sending your summer working for a u.s. tech company, spend your summer working in one of these countries teaching computer science or setting up infrastructure. >> back to twitter.
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how do we square the visceral. that some of the people have in the community of the federal government in things like surveillance and prosecution? some of the things that are historical problems around law-enforcement and doj with some of the newer trends of outreach from folks like ftc, fda and some of these other organizations to try to bring the community in for the benefit of the government? >> that is a good question. both sides present back to the table. it has been difficult to try to overcome some of that how we and timee the process heals all wounds. on the one side we have legislation such as tfa with
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many my committee feels overhead and at the other time we have people breaking into nasa and doj who should not be. there is happening on both sides but i think there has been a th awing and people try to bridge the grab -- gap. >> i don't want to over gloss the community, the hacker can being driven primarily by curiosity, but when you are at defcon there's a high degree of mischief. one guy had a little remote control that he developed a fuse to go it would take over a wireless mouse because that is not encrypted. he could take over wireless mouse and could disrupt people's presentations. then games mischief but you have some better in the full anarchist robot mode where the
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system is screwed and what we do , ah them that system is ok big talk, probably 2000 people on some guy talking about how he would fictitiously takedown a government and the crowd loved it. at defcon, you will have a white actor mug people. traditionally it has been a fringe of society but at the same time there are elements within that group that are trying to bring positive change. popular men fashion accessory other than the black .oodie is the utility kilt like cargo shorts but to make popular. isyou turn on your wi-fi, class, you get 40 different

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