tv U.S. House of Representatives Legislative Business CSPAN September 12, 2016 12:00pm-2:01pm EDT
thing to your question about putin's skills versus history. >> we believe this discussion on u.s.-russia relations and the 2015 campaign at this point for live coverage of the u.s. house. you can see the entirety on c-span.org. they will come back at 2 p.m. for legislative work. live coverage of the house. be in orr. the air lays before the house a communation from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's rooms, waon, d. september 12, 201 i hereby ant t honorable mark meadows to act as stte on thisay. signed, paul dryanspeaker of the house of representatives. e speaker pro tempor pursnt to e order of the housef january 5, 2016, the chair will now recognize members frolists submitted by majoritd minority
leade f moinhour debate. the chair will alternate recognition between the parties th eacparty limited to one hour and ea member other than therity ainority leaders and minority leade whip limited to five minus, but in no event shall debate continue beyond:50 p.m. the chair recognizes the gentlemafromexas, mr. conaway, five minutes. mr. caway:hank y, mr. speaker. . speaker, fmers and ranchers adorests take greatride i the stewardship of the land. they e the original conservationists. whe it may be popur amongst some to blame farmers and ranchers for any environmental concern tht up, i that nobody cares more for the enviroenthan those who work the land every day. when farm fy's livelihd dends on caring for tural resources, the is an undeniable economic incentive toopt practiceto enhance
the las' lon-termiability. uortunaly e a administration has pursued an agenda seemg absen of any regnition of t conseuences for ral america and production agriculture. obama's e.p.a. is creating regulations that are burdensome, overreaching, and negatively affecting jobs and the rural economy. perhaps t most poignant example is the e.p.a. and army corps ofngineersecent power grabith the waters of the u.s. rule,r as the he e.p. calls . the clean water rule. i'll be frank, this re is n aboutleanater. everybod wants and deserves cleanater, this rule simy emboes e.p.a.'s insatble appetite for when the e.p.a. administrator testied bere the house mmittee on riculture in ferks members of te committee brought h many concerns with therule. umerousimes the administrator brushed off their concerns with statemes that were intended farmers would have the same
long-standing farming exemptions that were originally included in the clean water act. these verbal assurances kept little comfort to wammers and ranchers who would face steep fines for any violation. while the administrator was telling the farming community they have nothing to fear with the new rule, a california farmer was being prosecuted by the justice department for simply plowing his field. the lawsuit brought against his produce claims that by plowing a field which every farmer i know considers a normal farming practice, this farmer has created, get this, many mountain ranges in his field. these mountain ranges are furos are normal farming. the suit also claims this producer discharged a pollutant into the waters of the u.s. this so-called pollutant was the soil he was plowing. these perceived violations only came to light when an overzealous court bureaucrat happened to be driving by the property and discovered perceived violations on the
land. regardless of the degree to which some deem government regulations justifiable, all regulations must be developed in a manner based on science and mindful of the economic consequences. this rule clearly was not. farmers, wranchranchers, and foresters believe the e.p.a. is attacking them and it's easy to understand y instead of using the e.p.a. and court's preferred strategy gi of fear than intimidation coupled with punitive enforcement and regulatory authority, we should built on the successful approach taken in the 2014 farm bills and previous farm bills to protect our natural resources through voluntary incentive-based convation programs. with that, mr. speaker, i yield back. the speaker pro tempore: the gentleman yields back. pursuant to clause 12-a of rule 1, the chair declares the house in recess until 2:00 p.m. today. day.
you know, i think armstrong was probably asking for too much to give ff was willing too little. he admitted personal. he thought sarnoff betrayed him. >> watch "the communicators" tonight at 8:00 eastern on c-span2. announcer: this week on "q&a," author and columnist david cay johnston. mr. johnson talks about his book "the making of donald trump: a critical take on the 2016 republican presidential ominee." brian: david cay johnston, a book called "the making of donald trump" is your latest and you say in the book that in the spring of 2016, you talked to mr. trump on the phone. what was that about?
david: well, i was writing a piece for "politico" magazine about all of his convictions to a major drug trafficker to con artists, swindlers, american mafia, russian mobsters and donald had sent an email asking if you would like to comment and he called me in essence is is, there are a lot of things i like but if you don't stop what you are going to write i am going to sue you. from covering the santa cruz city council 50 years ago to today, that's the only politician that has ever threatened to sue me for writing what he didn't like. i said, donald, you are a public figure. that means he would have to prove that i deliberately lied and knew it. he said, i know i'm a public figure and i'll sue you anyway. i think this is indicative of his character and authoritarian approach, you do it the way i wanted or i will make life go
for you. brian: what was your reaction when he said that? david: people have threatened to sue me a lot of times. it goes with the job. brian: 1988 in atlantic city you say you met him for the first time. what were the circumstances? david: well, i left "the los angeles times" where i had spent 12 years to go to atlantic city. i believed we were going to see casino gaming spread across america which it did and i wanted to examine whether government could really clean up his business that was traditionally run by crooks. within a couple of days i met donald. i immediately recognized he was p.t. barnum, selling tickets to the amazing two-headed woman. then i started, because he was a dominant force in atlantic city, i started asking about him and his competitors including steve wynn, and people who work for him in some big gamblers also to me, and all the casino
business. come on, how could he not know anything about the casino business? he only knows how to extract money. he doesn't know how to manage customers. doesn't know how to manage customers, etc. donald and i had a cup of coffee not long after that and i asked him a question about craps and i deliberately made a false statement and donald incorporated my false into his answers. that's what con artists do. that is what psychics who advertise on daytime tv do. so, i had a couple questions. he immediately embraced my full statements. i realize what i was being told was true, donald does not know anything. it is all bluster, appearance. it's all threats. he is quick. he is smart, but he is not at all studious or deep, and in
the book, i quote testimony where he gives answers to questions. one of them, my students were third-year law and business students answering a question like this, anyone who is been to the wharton business school will answer like this, donald's answer is gibberish. he does not understand the most basic issues of finance. listen to how he answers questions. you ask them, what is your favorite bible verse and he says, no one reads the bible more than donald trump. there are so many, so many, here are just so many. brian: back in 1968 he appeared on the oprah show. david: in 1988. brian: that shows you my age. back in 1988, all right. here is a clip of donald trump on that show in 1988. oprah: i know people have talked about whether you would want to run. would you ever? mr. trump: probably not. i do get tired of seeing the country get ripped off. oprah: why would you not? mr. trump: i do not think i have the inclination to do it. i love what i'm doing. i really like it. i just probably would not do it. oprah: and it probably doesn't pay as well.
[laughter] . mr. trump: i just probably would not do it, oprah. i do get tired to see what is happening with this country. how we're really making people live like kings and we're not. oprah: you said if you did run for president, you believe you would win. mr. trump: i think i would win. i would tell you, i wouldn't go in to lose. if i did decide to do it i think i would be inclined -- i would say i would have a hell of a chance of winning. [end video clip] brian: that was 20 years ago. david: that was the year george -- he asked george w. bush to make him his running mate. instead dan quayle got the job. donald has been talking about running for president since 1985 and 12 years later he ran and he said i'm going to be the first person to run for president and make a profit. this is indicative of donald. donald will tell you whatever he thinks is in his interest at the moment. that is what con artists tell you.
they tell you whatever they think you want to hear to get whatever they want. brian: what are your own politics? david: i am a registered republican. before that i was registered in tom del sano's party in new york. i am not a political person. i have voted for people on every line that is ever appeared on the ballot for different offices. i do not like politics. this is one of only two campaigns in the last 40 years i covered. did in "the l.a. times" in the governor's race in 1976 in nevada and i hated covering it. i am a policy got. i am someone who believes that we should be using the government for the purposes, the six nobel purposes -- six noble purposes in the preamble, to establish justice, promote general welfare, and in fact, i am developing, i hope, a new course to teach at syracuse, which is how we got the constitution and its context. brian: you say in the book that the trump family hasn't been voters. david: yes. interestingly, two of his
children did not get to vote for him because they were not registered as republicans. well, new york has these terrible, awful, arcaic rules. they are the ones responsible doing it. donald has not voted in a bunch of elections. and by the way, donald until recently was basically a democrat. one of the things he believes in is universal health care. we should get health care off of the backs of business and it should be, as he said, a public good provided to everybody. that's certainly not a republican party position. brian: give us some background on yourself. where did you grow up? david: i was born in san francisco and i consider home to be santa cruz, california. my father was a 100% disabled veteran for world war ii. my mother was a disowned heiress and i had an odd experience of growing up in a house over the beach that my parents rented for maybe $400 a month. brian: what do you mean
disowned heiress? david: she was testified in a lawsuit in 1941 and his only child, my mother was disowned and he was a very wealthy man. i went to work when i was 10 years old. i went to work full-time at 13. i became a reporter for some weekly papers at 17 and my work immediately got noticed because i did some simple things. if the school board said the average owner -- the owner of the average $34,314 house in santa cruz next year will pay $40.11 more in property taxes, i thought that was useless so i said, you will pay so much more per $1,000 in the value of your house. -- "the san jose mercury" recruited me. someone recruited me in the 19 hours writing front page stories as a staff writer. i went to the university of chicago at the graduate school for economics, new york times, philadelphia inquirer -- and just short of 40 years of doing -- daily reporting i left and since then i have been a columnist and
author and teacher at syracuse university. i live in rochester and my wife runs the successful community foundation in rochester, new york, we have the best childcare and all of the united states, canada and western europe and it costs this much more than warehousing kids. very smart program. brian: a couple weeks ago, donald trump went to tampa to give a speech and when he got there this video, which was not done by him of course, done by the folks against him. it's about 50 seconds. see what you think. [video clip] >> something stinks about the pam bondi-donald trump university scandal. but don't take our word for it. when i : when they -- call, they kiss my ass. ♪ >> when i call, they kiss my
ass. ♪ >> when i call, they kiss my ass. >> join thousands of floridians and join an investigation into the bondi scandal. visit progressflorida.org. mr. trump: they kiss my ass. brian: so, what is that all about? david: well, donald trump had someone come to him which was a good business idea. the man was in the business of running continuing professional education -- lawyers, accountants have to go to courses to make sure they are up on the law and he went and said, why do we not do one for donald trump real estate? donald trump said, that is such a good idea i am taking it away frr you and he gave a tiny
stake. i think it was 3%. they decided to turn it into trump university. you cannot call it a university without a license from the state and that's true i believe every state in the union. in every state i checked it was. this was not a university in even the dictionary meaning of the word. trump university quickly became under investigation as a scam. people paid $1,500 and what they got for that was high-pressure sales tactics where the faculty would stand over them and show them how to get more money and credit cards so they can pay $35,000 to get the full trump university package. donald did a promotional video, trump university is all about success and you will have success. we are going to have the best faculty and adjunct faculty. they will be hand-picked by me, the best of the very best and you will get a better education from the best business school because i went to the best one.
he did not, by the way. he went to the undergraduate program at wharton, not the graduate program. it turned out that the faculty knew nothing about real estate. they included the manager of a fast food joint, two people in personal bankruptcy and a lot of people with experience in high-pressure sales tactics as getting people to run other debt. by the way, if you run up your debt and borrow as much as the banks will possibly give you to pay for trump university, how would you have any borrowing capacity to buy real estate? the new york state attorney general brought a lawsuit on this. he was told to stop using the word university and he ignored it for several years. the texas attorney general office is under investigation and pam bondi the attorney general florida said publicly, she was thinking about joining the new york investigation. she and donald had some kind of communication. they also -- donald j. trump charitable foundation then
made a campaign contribution to pam bondi. now, charitable foundations cannot be involved in political activities. this should cause the revocation of their status. as a nonprofit. the bondi campaign manager was asked about this and the florida newspapers reported we are perfectly comfortable with the gift from the donald j. trump foundation, which is astonishing. pam bondi is a lawyer and she knows better than this. she also decided not to participate in the new york attorney general's investigation. and this ad, which is pretty brutal, is about fundamentally pam bondi, the attorney general that accepted this gift. by the way, the trump people tried to cover this up. they argue, and i explained in my book, it was money to teach people how to protest against our current abortion laws. they did not get any money. then they said it was this outfit in california. they did not get any money. then they said, it was a mistake. well, if it is a mistake, pam
bondi should have given it back and it goes to a core issue about donald. donald has no regard for whatever the law is. he does whatever he wants to do. brian: has he ever been sued? david: oh, he's been sued, according to "usa today" more than 4,500 times. he's been sued by workers he would not pay and there is a chapter in my book about that. he has been sued by vendors, investors who say they have been swindled. right now, this happened after i finished a book, a paint dealer who supplied paint for the remake of the doral country club was not paid the last $34,000. and to a little business like that, $34,000 is a big hunk of their year's profits. he sued. he sued and spent more than $300,000 on legal fees trying to collect the $34,000 and the judge finally granted it with the power to foreclose after
donald trump's witness testified about, why did you not pay the $34,000 your contract that you had to pay. mr. trump says he feels the man was paid enough. he will use the work and then he will say, i am not going to pay you for this crap. if you go to a lawyer and it's $34,000 or even $100,000 and say, will you spend $300,000 to fight trump? and he's done this again and again and again. brian: this book was published by which publisher? david: this was published by noble house press in london that do something, but i did with my first book which you interviewed me about back in 1992, i complained back then that my pun pub lisher was doing it slow, everything on paper and they were slow and i said somebody needs to make this modern and quick. these folks did it. brian: wikipedia says it is a liberal publishing house. david: liberal, conservative, i do not care. i mean, i don't pay any
attention to the politics of the people i work for. "the l.a. with times" that basically said, don't read what that guy wrote. i tell people i'm writing for what i'm going to write even when i was a reporter. they never tell me, unless it is breaking news. an airplane crashed. i would do that. i told him what i'm going to do and i have always done it. if you do a first, you eventually wear out your welcome wherever you work. brian: where did you get the idea to do this book and when? david: i think all but one chapter has a reference to trump in it. because he was so dominant in atlantic city. when donald announced on june got 2015, i was running, i a hold of my literary agent right away and said, we should do a book. she called around and everyone said, he is not going to get the nomination and i said, yes, he may get the nomination. he's serious this time and i was particularly charged up by the fact that here is giving
a speech talking about murderers and rapists from mexico and all of these young people applauding these lines. i thought, midtown manhattan is not a place known for racism and xenophobia. what did he do? are these employees or did he bus people in? where did he get this crowd? well, later, "the "hollywood reporter" revealed they were actors paid $50 each to show up and applaud on cue which shows you what a fraud donald trump is. anyhow, nobody wanted to do a book. at the time it became clear he would get the nomination, for traditional publishers you need about a year and it would be too late. i had just given up on the idea. i wrote about 25 pieces about donald for "usa today," "newsweek," "national memo" and some other places. many of them aimed at reporters, this is what you should be asking, questioning. and then noble house calls out of the blue and says, can we do the book in three weeks? i said, no. but i said, i can do it by a
date that was four weeks later. i wrote the book in 27 days. it was hell. and i am frankly not sure i am physically recovered at my age from doing it. i will never do it again. brian: 27 days it was finished. what day was that? david: my closing note is dated fourth of july. i finished the book the 5th of july and finished editing the 10th of july and there is a picture on my facebook page of me sitting in my garden reading the book on the 19th of july, two weeks later and it went on sale august 2, two weeks after that. and the german language edition went on sale august 30. they had to translate into german. brian: so lawyers -- and by the way, you call him a con man and a fraud. ow concerned was the publisher, did they pull the lawyers in on this? david: yes. this was vetted by a
lawyer. one thing i do not do in the book is i do not break ground in it. because i knew we had to get it lawyered quickly. what i have done is connected he dots and pull together my words, wayne barrett, one of the best reporters in new york city, pieces elsewhere, and i have this enormous collection of trump documents. i used to have to rent to storage units to have all of my files on donald trump, lapd, jack welch, and some other people. but now they have been digitalized. so i have these files and one of my grown children would sit in the other room creating files chronologically for me and after i was done, she would put everything back so we can get back to it when we needed it. the lawyer, i do not think the lawyer on this book changed more than 10 words. i know that several times when he got to a paragraph, yes, wrong verb, fix that right now. brian: do you have any worry? do you have to have an assurance -- insurance policy o protect you? david: well, if donald is going
to sue me, he will sue me. i was surprised he said that to me. he has tried to intimidate me in the past. i am a guy that hunted down and especially vicious murderer. i have run into a burning building. maybe i was -- brian: when was that? why did you do that? david: it was in california. i did it to get a better picture. i also ran towards to buildings people were and that they got out before i got there, think goodness. you do what you need to do in your job and my job is to tell people fax it would not know but for my work. i have been tailed by the lapd, the government in taiwan, people connected with it. i have had a lot of people threaten me. it is my job. you do what you need to do when you do the work that i do. the lawyer changed very little so anyway, in the book. on contrast, i wrote a piece for "politico" magazine that simply pointed out a number, not all of them, connections to criminals, his business dealings and his gratuitous connections with them. that was the most heavily lawyered piece of my career with maybe one exception.
have written stories accusing people of murder, people giving up retirement and if it's over a story i wrote. jack welch. and that lawyering told me he's really been intimidating news organizations and threatening to sue him. he cannot win but they can cost him a lot of money. brian: the former ceo did what -- jack welch, did what to give up his retirement benefits? david: jack welsh had a retirement package that was described to investors that he would continue to receive while serving the company and then he left his wife and she, a litigator, put into the public record enough information that i was going to show that he was going to get what i estimate $70 million of the use of a
g.e. jet, apartment, ballgame tickets, whether he used them or not. i laid out the economics of the corporate jet and then welch wrote an article in "the wall street journal," relinquishing all of this saying, those who do not respect their contracts, but i thought investors should know what they were paying jack welch. i was told by another journalist that he is furious at the mention of my name and he is entitled. i cost him a lot of money. brian: back to donald trump. in the book you talk about the academy of hospital service. the academy of hospital services -- david: or science, i think. this is an organization run by a convicted mob associate, joey two socks. it hands out what is the most procedures award in the world, not the most procedures travel award but the most prestigious
award, it's the five diamond award and the six diamond award. at least 19 donald trump properties have these awards which huge plaques on the wall and they are signed by joey two socks and they ares a also signed by donald j. trump. he gives awards to himself. there are videos on the internet or you can see this. i mean, it is absurd, giving awards to yourself. brian: it works. david: well apparently, a lot of people think these are fabulous properties. i point out a couple of his golf courses have awards. yet, if you look at the "golf digest" or magazine," no trump golf course on that list. brian: what does he do well? david: he is masterful at making himself a household name. i mean, you went on television for years. you are not a household name, nor am i. but donald is a household name. that's quite an accomplishment. he secondly has created this image of himself as the modern mitus. everything he touches turns to
gold. -- midas, everything he touches turns to gold. he has also been successful in getting even network television in america to run stories that he is the don juan of our age and women like madonna and kim basinger are pounding on his bedroom door. by the way, one of them said she has no idea hardly who even is a hand she is spoken drama only twice in her life. brian: marla married to sarkozy of france. david: when she became the first lady of france he had the opportunity on the howard stern show to back away from these imaginary lover stories he planted and he did not. he is good at planting these stories so the people have an image of him that has nothing to do with the reality of who he is. his building of the trump tower. that is quite a building. it's a significant accomplishment. brian: where is it? david: it is on fifth avenue in
manhattan rent in the middle of the city. it is 58 stories he tells everybody it is 68. that is part of how donald exaggerates things. those are the things he has accomplished and done very well. they concluded that the 496 companies they study, donald -- studied, donald came in dead last or almost last in every single category. this is no surprise to people who worked for donald and competitors. that's another area where he's great at creating this image of himself that doesn't comport with reality. brian: go back to the carla bruni story. what is the rest of it? how did he get in the middle of this? david: when donald was divorcing his first wife, he went out of his way to publicly humiliate the mother of his children. he planted all sorts of news stories, competition going on with madonna, kim basinger, carla bruni, and other women were trying to become the next mrs. trump and he used a p.r.
man named john baron who was donald trump. he called up these news organizations and they didn't know who he was. he wasn't well-known at the time, to pose as this p.r. man promoting trump. and "people" magazine outed him at the time. brian: we have a clip. sue is the woman who wrote the piece. how -- that was back in 1991. david: 1990 or 1991, yes. rian: when we are listening to this, that is donald trump masquerading as john baron. david: absolutely. that is donald. they outed him in the story. they made fun of him. a middle-aged man acting like a 13-year-old boy talking about some girl he was with. it is just extraordinary. brian: here is a little bit of this. it starts off slow but you will be able to hear it right away. [video clip]
stories, funny stories and then there is this really bizarre story. brian: how long did he do that? go under the name? david: for years. he usfl. brian: which is that? david: the united states football league. he basically destroyed the football league with a litigation strategy rather than a market strategy. he would call up news organizations to find different reporters and then he would call himself and verify the story to get it planted. he would be john miller or john baron. he calls himself and verify the story to get it planted. he got a story planted that went in "the new york times" that was about the usfl, the united states football league. he also used it to menace or threaten people with litigation if they did not back off. in particular, there were 150 to 200 illegal immigrants from poland who were demolishing the department store, the site which is now trump tower, they were being paid $4 an hour. they slept on the site in the
middle of winter because they had nowhere else to go. they didn't have hardhats or goggles or any safety equipment. and then they didn't get paid. until the they threatened to hang donald's oversear off the building because they didn't get paid. and donald was found by a federal judge to have engaged in a conspiracy to cheat the workers out of their money. $4 an hour and he's not paying people. brian bull gary. what is it and -- brian: bulgari. what is it? and what's the story? david: a high-end italian jewelry company with stores all over the world, including across the street from trump tower. donald trump engaged in a box scam. he bought a $15,000 piece of jewelry and a $50,000 piece of jewelry and he had them shipped out of state to a nonresident ever new york, there would be no sales tax due.
there might be a tax but it's not enforced. donald was not eligible for this because he lived in new york across the street. when law enforcement got onto this and the new york attorney general began investigating, donald got wind of this. now, he had a casino license and his involvement in any crime would get him in trouble. so he went to law enforcement to help him. he was not the only one involved. mary tyler moore, henry kissinger were involved. it's a scam that's gone or for decades. it continues to go on. brian: did those people know was illegal? david: of course he was. and the bulgari was so cheap in doing this. instead of paying the postage for what the weight was of the julyry, they saved a little bit of money by sending empty boxes with no weight. the significance of the story, it's clear evidence of donald participating in tax cheating and that should have cost him his casino license had the state of new jersey had any
interest in ightening up and enforcing law to prove by clear and convincing evidence that they e morally honest, they don't have a relationship with donald. brian: so some of your friends, if you are with your friends and donald trump was with elected president. you look at the screen and see he is the winner, what is the first thing you would say to them? david: i would say, how long until we have a constitutional crisis? donald does not understand the powers, limits, and duties under the constitution. he talks like the president is dictator. he has said he will order the military to engage in illegal acts. if you are a senior united states military officer, my guess is you are reading up very carefully on how you refuse and unlawful order from the military commander-in-chief. using nuclear weapons. an order to torture people. you know, we executed japanese soldiers after world war ii for
waterboarding. and that would be the big concern. the second one would be if donald was president of the united states, i am absolutely certain that i will have trouble with somebody in federal law enforcement. he will find some way to make my life difficult because that's who donald is. donald's philosophy, which he has written at great length and lectured about and interviewed about, get revenge. destroy anybody. if somebody just won't do you a favor, destroy their life and take pleasure in that. that should make you really, really happy. he says when he destroys people's lives, it just makes him so happy. if he gets elected, i'm going to have trouble. brian: what would you say the same group if hillary clinton is elected? david: you know, i haven't thought a lot about that. you know, hillary clinton, like john kasich, is competent to be president. she knows what the job is and how to do it. i don't see any indication she will pursue policies that are
not for the long-term interest of the economy. i don't like a lot of her policies. brian: you've been an investigative reporter and you must have looked at what's going on with the foundation and all. david: no. the reason is i can't do everything. i don't know hillary clinton. when i left "the l.a. times" if i'd gone to little rock i would have written a book about hillary clinton. i went to atlantic city. there is garbage on both of them. there's some well-written people. i encourage people in my book to go read those books. i have written about hillary clinton twice in my life. i have never spoken to her. the clintons paid more than twice as federal income tax than the law required despite spending $9,000 having their tax returns prepared. the royalties from her book, it takes a village, she took them as income, paid the taxes and gave away the difference.
she was furious about this. she went absolutely nuts about this. the new york times" didn't publish my story the first year. i had to wait a year until i had editors lined up. the next year i went to the white house to get the president's tax returns. i said there's nothing here about the new book. what is it? i think jody said, "letters to buddy and socks." i said, yeah, about the pets. the spokesman said, well, the clint ons gave the copy write to a public charity which was the implicit advice in my story and i said, oh, really? and the spokesman said yes. the white house has me on record, the clint ons did not take their advice from "the new york times," which everybody erupted in laughter. it meant more money for charity and less for the government. brian: how many years were you with "the new york times," what was your beat and when did you leave it? david: i was with them 13 years. i left in 2008. i came there to show we can over taxes in a different way.
exam examine how the system works instead of what politicians say about it. which is why did i it out of my home in new york and not washington. and compensation, showing things right in front us we were not paying attention to. and but principally i did taxes congress, ured by my it resulted in a quarter trillion of tax dodges being stopped. a lot of people went to prison. brian: who was the biggest? david: the biggest was president bush had in his tax plan that he wouldn't show us before the election a stealth provision that would allow very -- brian: which president, by the way? david: george w. bush. he say a stealth provision that would repeal the gift tax. and that was an idea that conservative republicans put into law in the 1920's.
and when the white house was -- the white house press secretary ari fleischer talked about this and he said i knew my stuff about taxes and they quietly withdrew my provision that staff report showed it would cost in the first 10 years a quarter of a trillion dollars. and there was the bermuda mailbox scam and a lot of others. professor, the guy who teaches law school at duke who called me the de facto tax officer of the united states. brian: you have a box you're planning on taxes. david: the book i was working on is called "the prosperity tax," an entirely new federal tax code for the 21st century economy. we have a really great tax system in america for 1960. and we no longer live in the industrial age. we live -- have an industrial age tax system. this book will have the actual
statutory language. i'm not a lawyer but i learned how to write statutory language. i expect it to be less than 100 pages. it will -- it uses things that are all in the law already. there's virtually -- there's one thing that is not in the law. it's simpler. very few people will have to file a tax return. nobody has to. there is a group that can choose to. corporations will have a much easier time. it will be much more efficient. it will shrink the i.r.s. down. i set up a mechanism if you want to cheat you have to engage in a criminal conspiracy with the other person. the other person is liable for the taxes and you're both going to go to prison. brian: what's the publishing time for this? david: i'm not teaching this year so i can finish it. i hope the book will be out in 2018. brian: how much tax has donald trump paid from what we know? david: he paid none in 1977, 1978, 1988, 1994. in recent years his adjusted
gross income. it was less than $500,000. now, the tax law has all sorts of provisions that allow some people at the top to live tax-free or virtually tax-free. private equity managers like mitt romney. hedge fund managers. and people who are full-time real estate professionals like donald trump. there is good reason to believe because of those rules that donald probably has paid no income taxes or maybe a couple years a little bit since 1978. brian: and do you think he will release his return? david: not a chance. it's never going to happen. when donald and his son said there's nothing there. you give me donald trump's complete tax return for one year and i'll back engineer and tell you the value of his hard assets. i'll tell you where his income sources are. ilatell you a lot about him. brian: you mentioned earlier
about donald trump's religion and also, bible reading. falwell jr. who spoke at the convention this year on his behalf and has been supporting him. [video clip] jerry: my family and i have grown to love the trumps for other reasons. we have never met such a genuine and loving family. i truly believe he is america's blue-collar billionaire. brian: yeah? david: well, you know, i've known and spent time with mobsters who were good family men. i mean, that part doesn't impress me. what troubles me are the pastors who are saying that donald trump is a good christian man. donald trump in his own words is aggressively antithetical to christianity. first off, he denigrates the communion. well, you get your little water and your little cracker. when he's asked, as he's been many times, to cite a favorite
passage from the bible, because he says nobody reads the bible more than donald trump, he gives a -- there's so many. one time he tried, he got it wrong. he said leviticus, an eye for an eye. and he did not even understand what that concept actually means. am sorry, in the sermon : 49 to 45, thew 5 the message from jesus was turned the other cheek, be kind to other people. donald rejects that. he says people who do that, you are fools, you are idiots, you are shmucks. he did not do a just and passing. this is not a gap. this is a well-documented record. to the pastors endorsing donald trump, if they want to say he is better than the other person, i don't have a problem because that makes perfect sense, but do not deceive your flock. do not allow this man to beguile you with flattery. do not spread these falsehoods. i have offered them my book.
one got back to basically say, thanks, if we want to know anything, we will get in touch with you. ministers have an absolute duty not to deceive their flocks in not to tell them the man whose own lengthy statements and actions are aggressively anti-the message of jesus christ is a good christian man and to vote for him for that reason, that's an awful development. i want these pastors called to account. the members of their flocks and other religious leaders should be raising cain about this. brian: do you have any sense jerry fal well supports him? they had the largest christian university with their online service. david: i hope it is because he is badly informed. that is my hope. my concern is he is more interested in political outcomes than he is in following the message of jesus christ. brian: you have a story in your ook about a man named satter
s-a-t-t-e-r -- satter, but sometimes you say his name was pelled s-a-t- embingeds r. -- s-a-t-e-r. david: felix satter is the son of a reputed russian mob boss. who by the way has threaten out twice to sue me about writing about them. he was donald trump's senior advisor. he had business cards, senior adviser to donald trump. his office was in the main suit of trump organization in trump tower. he and donald traveled all over together, colorado, denver, phoenix, fort lauderdale, new york. they were involved in putting uilding products together. felix sambings tter is a defendant in -- satter is a defendant in a private attorney action in new york. accusing him of running a quarter billion dollar tax fraud. it's only an accusation. it could not have taken place but for a letter donald trump signed that authorized changes that made it possible. this tax fraud goes to
icelandic banks to russian oligarchs. felix satter is a convicted violent felon. he put the broken end of a margarita stem into a man's face. it took 110 stitches and his face will never be right. he is a convicted stock swindler with the help of four mob families in new york, he ran a $40 million stock scam. that he's pled guilty to. donald is not supposed to be, when he had a casino, associating with these folks. secondly, they are borrowing money from banks and they hid this. the reason felix sometimes put an extra t in his name is so journalists would not find out about his background. donald trump had a duty to investors and to bankers he borrowed from to inquire about this man's background. he did not or he did not want to. he has told, i think it was the horowitz, i think it was a when he said this to.
he said i hardly know the man. if he was in the room, i would not recognize him. i have photographs and videos of them together. interviews. i mean, that is absurd. he knows this guy very well. this is part of the not fully developed understanding we have about donald's connection to the putin regime and the russian oligarchs that should be very much the subject of a lot of inquiry by my peers. they should be deeply digging into what is it donald trump is advancing in primary foreign-policy object of vladimir putin? weaken nato. he has been paid millions of dollars by russian oligarchs -- i had every one of them in a room in moscow, eight years ago. he has tried to do all sorts of deals in russia. there's a 47-story building one of the former soviet empire countries with his name on it. there is this alleged tax fraud.
satter is at the center of all of this. what is donald trump spending years with this convicted violent felon and stock swindler, into there are a bunch of lawsuits. including hiding his criminal background from investors that damage their interests. brian: what marks would you give your peers that you mentioned? david: overall, i think the american news media has done an awful job. i know some people say, well, nobody vetted barack obama. actually, they did. just go read the news. i know about women he dated, kids went to grammar school with, high school with and lots about barack obama. what his professors said about him at columbia and harvard where he was incredibly highly regarded. this is an example. in donald trump's case, you are only now starting to see an inquiry into him. now "the washington post" had about 20 reporters on this. i helped them with things. i gave them developments.
i often do it with reporters. most journalists don't, but i do. they have done some pretty good stories. they are written in the way that highbrow newspapers now do this unless you are a sophisticated reader you don't get the point. "the wall street journal" has done nothing of any consequence. "the new york times" has recently done some very good stories, but the same thing. they are written in very highbrow fashion that you cannot easily grasp what is going on. brian: what about television? david: absolutely appalling. brian, i have been on national networks, broadcast networks in australia, canada, britain, france, germany. repeatedly. i been on a single u.s. broadcast network, not a morning talk show. they have people on that don't know anything, talking about donald trump and speculating, and i can give them hard facts. brian: why do you think they are doing that? david: first of all, donald trump is great television. you can't turn it off. and fox news has said, that when they turn off -- when of
their agents said when they turn off donald trump, people turn off their tvs. it is not just like watching a car wreck, it is like watching in incredible car wreck. people want to see it. there is commercial interest. noorms have been shrunk enormously. basically, the fastest disappearing white-collar job in america has been journalism. the resources are there. i once spent $10,000 at the los angeles times money for one paragraph. today, to get $10,000 to do a story, you have to really convince editors there is something substantial there. and then, i think more importantly, the duty of journalists, which is to tell you that which people don't want to tell you has been in decline because of all the attacks from people who don't want to hear things. they mount attacks. both the left and the right about this. brian: here is his dad, 1985, getting the horatio alger reward.
in new york. [video clip] >> i used to watch other successful people and that they -- that did good and that did bad and i followed the good qualities they had to perfect myself. shakespeare said, never follow an empty wagon up here. never follow an empty wagon because nothing ever falls off. david: i don't remember reading that in shacks peer. maybe it was there. he was an incredibly industrious guy. he was hardworking. he profiteered on g.i. housing after the war and president eisenhower, when he found out fred trump had $4 million of excess profit, threw a fit in the white house and 100 federal investors report on fred trump and other developers. when he was hauled into the
finance committee, he said -- this is indicative of the future under donald trump. he said, this is all just a misunderstanding. i did not profiteer. yes, i have $4 million. it it is in the bank. i didn't take it so i'm not a profiteer. so was fred trump honest? well, let's see. they color coded applications for rentals so when a black or puerto rican renter would show up with solid finances to rent an apartment, they would be steered away to black and latino apartments. i had lyrics about fred trump. because of the generosity of the guthrie family in a book. lyrics about the racism of donald trump's father. and, he is well-known for his association with the mob guys, through willy tomasello, his partner. mob associate. brian: speaking of that, there is a documentary that's been held up for a long time. here is an excerpt called "trump what is the deal." you can buy it for $2.99.
it d: you rent it but buy for $10. brian: here is an excerpt, and i want you to explain after we see this. [video clip] >> it was the biggest high-stakes game on the boardwalk in years. the players, merv griffin and billionaire businessman donald trump. the unfinished taj mahal. >> i won, i won, i won. he would tell america those he won. he wants to make sure everybody in america knows he won. i look at him and say, donald, you won. you feel better? now you can eat. >> he had called me after he negotiated to sell the property to merv griffin. he said, didn't i do the best deal, didn't i get the best of merv? i said donald, it was great you sold the property, but you may may have made a mistake. i think buying the taj mahal is going to be a bad thing for you. what do you mean?
i think the taj mahal will be the greatest success ever. you just don't understand. brian: so what happened to the taj mahal and this documentary? david: well, i covered it all back then and these were terrible deals. i wrote they were both going to fail promptly and couldn't pay their bond interest, which was what happened. this was a terrific job of telling you who donald trump was. it was only shown twice. and donald's threats of litigation shut it down. they shut down many things with litigation. i wrote a proposal for a tim burton movie about donald trump. and his threats of litigation meant it never came about. finally, libby decided when was running for president, i have got to put this out. the updated it in the opening because people need to see it. it is 80 minutes, a great big lesson on donald trump. i would rather you buy my book, but libby's movie is very good. this particular deal was indicative of the fact donald doesn't have the business skill he says he has.
he cannibalized his own market. he took over this white elephant of a property, the trump taj mahal. his name will disappear october 10 from atlantic city because his casinos are gone. he goes around saying it is terrible in atlantic city. people in atlantic city today are making nice, fat profits, above average for the country, for all businesses. brian: why didn't he? david: because his company was terribly managed. when he had -- three of his executives were killed in a helicopter crash unfortunately. every other case, he eventually drove out his top -- competent executives because he was demanding and bullying and mistreated people. if you're comp tent, what are you going to put up this for? you are going to go someplace else. he put in place yes-men. to answer your question, a donald trump administration would be full of many people you would never hear of whose distinguishing characteristic will be loyalty to donald
trump, not to the constitution, not to the american people or long-term welfare of the country but to donald trump the person. brian: we're running out of time and i have a couple more names i want to bring up. bob? david: bob was the biggest loser in atlantic city. he was a con man and a mob guy, not a made guy, but a mob associate who i spent a lot of time with. -- removing black women and asian dealers and cocktail waitress he because he thought it was currying favor with bob because bob when he was losing money would let loose with this vial language, crazy language. i didn't know dond was doing that. i would never move somebody. i say these terrible words, but i'm not the racist. donald trump is the racist. bob calls you a racist, that's bad. brian: where is he now? david: he died a few years
ago. donald tried to seduce his daughter. and steve hide who was running the casinos told bob to toiled the story to me you got to deep your daughter away from your daughter bus you're going to kill him and i'm going to lose my best customer. and bob as he told the story to me went to donald and said, after donald had given her a cream colored mercedes and other things that if you approach my daughter again, i will castrate you without enefit of a knife. brian: you mention in the book about his germophobia, but now he is shaking hands. what happened to that? david: i don't know. shook hands with him once and he disappeared into the bathroom. he is now shaking hands. somebody told him it is not good if you don't do that. prayian: i will let you know nouns the game. accio. david: accio kashiwagi, i am the only journalist watched him
gamble at the rate of $14 million an hour. $200,000 a bet, 700 bets an hour. donald trump brought him twice to atlantic city. he completely mishandled this guy. should have won $12 million but lost $6 million. i recount in the book what happened here. donald hired jeff markham, a teenager who went on to be a cofounder of the rand corporation, one of the geniuses of the last century, to watch the game because he was convinced the guy was cheating. and i recount in the story that he figured out there was half a million of chips missing that nobody else notice. it turned out that he had in fact scammed him of half a million in chips. blu the story is mostly about if donald had understood the game of back rat and the math he would have realized there came a point that it was an 87 to one odds to wipe the guy out. and instead, he gave him the space to walk away from the
table and donald lost money as a result. so that proves the fact that donald just doesn't know anything. brian: back to the lawyers in this book, what do they excise from the book? david: nothing was excised. a couple places where we reworded things a little bit in very minor, light editing. i have been this for so many years, almost 50 years now, i know how to write things so they are legal and fair. brian: how did you get on the new york times best seller list? david: a lot of people brought the book -- bought the book. brian: how did they find out about it? television has not had you on. david: because i have a pretty good-sized twitter following. melville house is good at marketing. they were telling people about the book. the initial orders we got from bookstores were nothing because there were a bunch of trump books. my fear was, what would happen if my last two got sold? they ran out of books. a lot of bookstores ran out of books, and then they started ordering lots of books. it is now readily available. but it was just devastating to me the first time around. i am going up on the new york
times bestseller list, and they don't have enough books. this time, the people at melville house have been extraordinary in their understanding of how you market a book and get people to buy it. brian: any other title? besides "the making of donald trump?" david: i wanted it to call "the art of deception." they did not want to do that. that is not a neutral title and it turns people off. i have had people post things on the internet because they think it is pro-donald trump. it was designed to be neutral. who is this guy? where does he come from? i start with his grandfather who was a german draft dodger that made a fortune running whore houses on through donald trump's education and his association. that he does not want you to know about. my goal was to balance his masterful pr image of himself with all of the things donald does not want you to know. brian: our guest has been david cay johnston. you can find him in the
university of syracuse, university of rochester, new york. and if they want to see you on twitter, what is your handle? david: davidcayj. brian: thank you for joining us. david: thank you, brian. national cable satellite corp. 2016] the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] announcer: for free transcripts, or to give us your comments about this program, visit us at q&a date.org. programs are also available as c-span podcasts. >> u.s. house returns today at
2:00 p.m. eastern for legislative work. there are 19 bills on the agenda. with votes on those after 6:30 eastern. we will have live coverage of the house here on c-span when they gavel back in. earlier today we spoke with a capitol hill reporter to get a look what's on the agenda in the house in the near future. on the break. joining us on the phone what to expect this week, susan "washington examiner." she's chief congressional correspondent. good morning. susan: good morning. host: what are the major issues that congress has to tackle and let's start with the issue of and keeping the government from closing on september 30th? susan: that's right. september 30th is the final day of fiscal year. byy need to pass something then to keep the government functioning. federal government. works nowplan in the beginning over in the senate side, congress. the majoritye
leader mitch mcconnell working with minority leader, democrat harry reid and the white house. they trying to come up with plan foreep the government open a short time. that legislation would include funding for federal government mosquitoes andkeetes come up with a vaccine. deal is reportedly in the works. the leaders including, house the whitell meet at house today to talk about the septemberened with the president. be probably the number focus on that they today. host: one of the discussions about that issue is the length, doing it now before new doingent put in place or it after the president comes in place. has there been resolve especially amongst republicans and democrats?
susan: right now, they're thatng on short term bill holds funding at last year's level. when they return after the we call, they have what the lame duck suggestion. that usually takes place and last in november until the end of the year or less time than that. how they debate over should fund the government beyond that december 9th date and there's a lot of republicans that don't want what we call big ominous bill that packages everything together. they're talking about maybe doing smaller groups of combined legislation instead of calling ominous, you call a minibus. that can fund the government through 2017 fiscal year. if they can't get all of it maybe a few peaces that they do need for the next and the next president. i think that's where they're headed. some republicans of
the house don't want a short rare lamethat will duck action. they don't think lawmakers who are back after an election accountable to the voters. they don't think they should be working on spending bill. to passing in now that last until next year. that's not enough support for that and white house don't back it. it's not going anywhere. at now, islooking legislation that passes pretty fashion.ipartisan it will probably exclude the of moreof a lot conservative spending talks over tothe house who really want reign in what they consider, ballooning increase spending every year. i think that's where they're headed. details of thehe deal at this moment. i'm told that's moving right along. have a deal and it will come from the senate potentially and that may
give the house a little nudge to quickly too. host: susan ferrechio, also coming under the spotlight this the i.r.s. commissioner. that? the latest on susan: we have same republicans. they will probably bring up a resolution this week because they would like to have the vote on impeaching john costa and the i.r.s. commissioner. republican leaders of the house do that.t to they're more interested in maybe at the very extreme. that's what they think as far as they want to go with it. floor,oes come to the they'll have the option of vote it.able they could just vote on whether to impeach him or they can vote to send it to the judiciary committee. those are among the possibilities. i don't know -- i don't think loves idea of
impeachment. it's a rare thing. it hasn't happened with a cabinet member or administration mid-to latece 1800s. the entireing amongst republican leaders. they know it's coming. it's under decision. a big divide over whether it should happen. i suspect they may table it or committee. real before we let you go, quick susan ferrechio, a story you posted today on the examiner website. in onicans zero row obamacare, ghost town. susan: there was a scare in arizona where they were facing anypect of not having ed on thesurers list affordable care act. having have a difficult
the health insurance in it. big insurance companies are backing out because they tend to losing money because they're not signing up young and healthy to offset older and sicker individuals. sort of the ground zero for this. bluecross blueshield, they said they will were not coming back in 2017. minute, we're talked into staying. now they have one. forefrontrt of at the what the fear is for many counties in america. whoe's millions of people only have one choice of insurance company. archingt the over .roblem with the law then there's big medicaid expansion. it's a real struggle and in on itns are zeroing in congress to highlight as we all know there are years long to repeal and replace the
bill in congress. course, democrats do not agree with. ferrechio with the washington examiner, telling us and giving us a flavor what's this week >> we will have live coverage of the house when members gavel back in at 2:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. also coming up today on capitol hill, the house oversight committee looks into the f.b.i.'s investigation of hillary clinton's use of a private email server. representatives from the justice department and the f.b.i. are expected to testify. that gets under way live at :00 p.m. eastern on c-span3. >> for campaign 2016, c-span continues on the road to the white house. >> we're going to get things done, big things. that's who we're as americans. >> we will have one great american future. our potential is unlimited.
>> ahead, live coverage of the presidential and vice presidential debates on c-span. the c-span aido app, and c-span.org. monday, september 26, is the first presidential debate. live from hofstra university in hampstead, new york. then on tuesday, october 4, vice presidential candidates governor mike pence and senator tim kaine debate at longwood university in farmville, virginia. and on sunday october 9, washington university in st. louis hosts the second presidential debate. leading up to the third and final debate between hillary clinton and donald trump. taking place at the university of nevada las vegas on october 19. live coverage of the presidential and vice presidential debates on c-span. listen live on the free c-span radio app. or watch live or any time on emand at c-span.org. >> tech crunch held its annual technology and innovation conference in brooklyn new york in may.
entrepreneurs and experts from the tech industry gathered to discuss trnds and new products. this portion a discussion with the founders of foursquare and the list apps. >> i'm katie roof with tech crunch. and dennis here, his wife is about to have a baby any moment now if he runs off stage it's not because i'm asking a tough question. it's a legitimate reason. jeff: i put my phone right here where i can see it just in case. katie: i guess that's a big deal. then we have the incoming -- the new c.e.o. foursquare has changed a lot over the years. you started out as a location sharing app now you have two apps. you're also a data company.
we'll get to that. i wanted to talk to you about your new roles. as executive chairman i wanted to find out how still involved with the day to day, how are hings different than before? >> i'm there day-to-day with the company. there are tons of things going on at foursquare. i'm still there trying to make sure we get to focus on the things that represent the reason we started the company. dennis: big reason for the role switch is as foursquare matures and turns into the amazing business we knew it would become, i picked an extremely talented business leader that's rung the day-to-day operations and making sure we are staying true to our goals. katie: how will foursquare differ under your leadership? jeff: dennis and i have been partnering for almost two years now. i joined a little more than 18 months ago. we started taking these amazing consumer apps and try to make them bet earn bring back the magic, but we also had set a
goal to be $100 million profitable business in the next couple years. we had a direct path to that. part of it was earning our way in the world by figuring out how we create a sustainable business so we can keep investing in these great consumers products and innovating. we built in the last two years, we built enterprise and media products last year grew 160% in revenue. now they are the majority of revenue of the company. so we all come to work every day. thinking about how to guide people to that next great burr rita place they would never discover or that incredible cream -- artisan ice place. that's what gets us up. but we also know we have investors and we just raised 45 million with morgan stanley and others. we have an obligation to be here for the next 20 years inventing these things.
that kind of balance is the hallmark of what dennis and i have been cooperating on the last 20 months to build a sustainable, successful business and keep inventing the future of how mobile changes the real world and your ability to discover the real world or play a game in the real world. katie: you found some interesting use cases for data. it turns out people tell you where they are going and everywhere they eat at and shop at you know a lot about them. so you accurately predicted the decline in sales at chipotle because of the e. coli scare. you also found out about i phone sales ahead of time. how are you monetizing this? what are you using this data for exactly? jeff: we have a whole suite of of -- of analytics products. when we predicted how many iphones apple would sell. or predicted the mcdonald's would have enormous
quarterfinally based on all their breakfast data. we have seen foot traffic of the world. chipotle would have 30% decline in sales and it was 29.7 when the final numbers came out. we're helping all kinds of people understand what's happening in the real world. it's easy because all of us work in tech to forget that 93% of all consumer spending happens in the real world. e-commerce is about 7%. there isn't a cookie in the real world. we have this chance to not only build a great consumer product but be the neilson of the real world and understand. we're building really 123ik9ed analytic products based on that. this foot traffic panel of millions of people and growing around the world that while we protect everyone's privacy, we're able to see cultural trends or traffic changes where a bunch of academics in the u.k. are using foursquare data to predict which neighborhoods would gentrify. as we hear in brooklyn it's
great to think about how neighborhoods change. if you can't figure out how to build a profitable business with that insight in 120 countries you should go home. katie: is this data from where people are voluntarily checking in or from the background-dirnl' sure some people are wondering how their data is being used. dennis: sure. i was going to correct you earlier. it's not data from people checking n one of the things we're proud about we built over the last four or five years is this technology a code that you can put on a device. depending where the device is and understanding the signals we can figure out where it is and where it's been. that piece of technology is what's powering all the intelligence within foursquare. how do we learn about the plateses you have been to to make smarter recommendations. when whenever you go to check in we know where you are. also for the 100,000 developers also building on top of
foursquare we're able to give them this ability all the time. running these in the background is what's powering this tremendous source of data which jeff is talking about. it's much more than just i have to press the button to understand that. a big part of our proposition to partners and advertisers and developers we work with is that we built this technology that allows people to understand this in the background. jeff: i would just add for those trying to understand how big foursquare is becoming and our ambition, you don't have to be a foursquare user per se for us to understand. we have a network of hundreds of thousands of apps. because of our understanding of the shape of 105 million places we have crowd sourced around the world, if an advertiser like nike wants to find 18 million americans who work out three times a week or running every morning and reach to them, we can enable that. both foursquare users and nonfoursquare users through our
pinpoint partnerships. if burger king wants to figure out people happen to be addicted to shake shack and mcdonald's an offer them a deal we can enable that and measure whether the ads work. thanks to pilgrim and thanks to our sort of crowd source shapes the world, our immediate business, the biggest line, growing like crazy, a third of the fortune 500 consumer brands buying advertising on digital and online through foursquare. katie: with all this new revenue, are you profitable yet? jeff: when we raised $45 million in january we set a goal of being promptable $100 million. we're focused on every day and now how we'll get there. katie: you recently raised some funding as we reported. it's tough fundraising environment, but we understand it is significantly lower valuation than in previous rounds in the past. why is that?
dennis: i think the business previously was valued on this idea that the foursquare app would grow up and be a fb or twitter, snap chat. i think what we started realizing a couple years ago is that wasn't the destiny for the apps. the destiny was to make these things that we have tens of millions of people love who don't need 100 million, 300 million people to use them every day to make a profitable business. so when we went back and talked to investors, what is this business? what is the business? how is it evolving? what's it going to look like? what jeff and i have been working on has been how can we build these amazing consumer apps we know from all data and insights in the real world and how can we monetize that data through a relationship with developers and enterprises and advertisers? that's been working out well for us. as part of that process we had to do a reset on the expectation evaluation. but it's a really good spot
now. jeff: we were able to think about the business the way you think about a public company. real revenue. real business now growing fast. we were able to evaluate it. before it was valued on the early -- so -- smart investors like morgan stanley and others see g -- and others they -- they won't invest unless they can triple their money. they all are voting with their feet. it's a testament to the success of the last 20 months of the business growing. i know a lot of start-ups out there. unless you are showing real traction and enormous potential you're not able to raise big round in these terms. we're plowed of the team and how far we have come. katie: what are you planning to do with the new funding? i understand you might expand to asia? you have some announcements there? jeff: something to note is thanks to the funding we have actually hired 35 people both here and new york and san
francisco. so for the representatives of the city, we continue to be a made in new york company. we're headquartered here. but we added 35 people. we're adding people from top companies like apple and accenture and others. and we also tired a head of asian b.b. and opening an office in asia. the c.e.o. of retell against is coming over to run asian b.b. for us. we have a ton of customers in asia, samsung, and others, we're going back and forth between singapore and shanghai building our partner network. the $45 million we raised in january is letting us step up in engineering, particularly in enterprise and media sales, so we can get the word out at the pace we have been growing. dennis: it's worth noting we're continuing to hire. so if you are interested, foursquare.com/jobs. check it out. katie: come and get a job.
so you are expanding to asia does foursquare do well in asia from a consumer perspective? what reason are people using swarm and foursquare? dennis: all over the world. we have been doing this seven years now. different pockets at different times. latin america, brazil, russia, eastern europe, southeast asia have all been extremely very big, very quickly growing for us. and so it's funny because i think a lot of companies focus on the u.s. a big chunk of what's happening that's interesting and the technology and business side is happening outside of the u.s. for us. so we're just starting to think about the next couple years how do we put that to work for us? jeff: like twitter or facebook or lots of other companies the internet is global. mobile phones are the internet outside the u.s. for the most part. many parts of the world. so we have users in over 110
countries. some of those bigger countries like turkey and mexico and russia and japan and korea and others. a lot of what we're aiming to do is find those passionate explorers who love mapping the world and discovering new places or playing the swarm game becoming mayor. we can get a few percent of every society in the world to participate in our crowd sourcing model, then a samsung or wechat or others are using all the mapping technology that we provide. the way twitter does. twitter and squares of countries is -- you tweet and you tag that tweet and that's powered by foursquare. if you tag a pin on pinterest to a specific place, you are using foursquare data and technology to identify where that photo is taken. we're doing those services for a bunch of asian developers like samsung and wechat and others. that's what jeremy will be focused on is the enterprise
uses of this global technology footprint. katie: when it comes to consumers what do you think users are using foursquare for these days? i know there were mayors, and weren't mayors, now mayors again. are you emphasizing the games again? dennis: each app has its own different personality. i think what we realized is that when you make swarm the fastest and easiest way to check in for just something fun to do during the day, earning coins, as well as the life logging tool. people love that. it's got a quirky personality. we're seeing fantastic traction there. nine billion check-ins over all, and eight million every day. that's a tremendous amount of data the company can put to work. on the foursquare sifed things, it's the same story since the beginning. how do we lead people to amazing experiences? how do we do that whether they are actively in the apps serving for something or walking around can we ping them and have their phone buzz in their pocket and they open their phone and say we're
supposed to go across the street because foursquare said to do that. we're building awe lot of those services. foursquare is continuing to do that. katie: you mentioned that there have been nine billion check ins on swarm and 50 million active users today. that's both foursquare apps combined? jeff: and the website. katie: i was surprised when i heard those numbers you may have heard this that a lot of people say that after you split the apps some people dew point switch over to the new app. was that the right decision in hindsight? would you have done anything differently? dennis: i think splitting the apps was the right decision. it was getting complicated and bloated. now we have two stories for two apps. it works well. the only thing we do differently. we did a lousy job messaging it to people. explaining our thinking. this app is for this and this
app is for that. maybe we would do a better job on the messaging. that was 18 months ago. maybe longer than that. if you look at a lot of the numbers, from the data we're selecting and how satisfied the users seem to be, all those things have rebounded. we're excited about the position we're in. jeff: i would just add last year we really focused on bringing the magic back to swarm. some of the magic that made the original foursquare game so compelling. and in the u.s., we tripled the checkins perfect user last year. some of it was going back, bringing back mayorships, the coins. the team had so much fun dialing up the quirky nature of it. now you have the triple x stickers. if you visit enough coffee shops or artisan cocktail bars. there are all kinds of games you'll see us dial up this year. we're at an all time high global daily check-ins. we're thrilled. but there was definitely a dip during the split.
i arrived as the split was being implemented. i can't say i was there for it. i understand now deeply as we talk to consumers the value of a city guy that gets to know you and pings you when you are in a new neighborhood or restaurant but doesn't have to be a game. it can just be a great guide for explorers versus people who want this social game experience in the real world and be inspired to try new places and share location that swarm is. they each have deepened their experience either a game they play in the real world or city guide. so it's ultimately now both are growing. it did take a hit for a while. katie: there is an initial user decline but you are increasing engagement these days. i say you have some cool partnerships on foursquare. you can delivery.com. you can get food and also alcohol. there are so many different delivery businesses already. why would people go to foursquare beyond the others? jeff: i think we have a bunch of partnerships like uber and
others and open table, open table that is been true for a while. i think it was less we thought maybe we join the app other than those companies came to us and wanted access to the loyal foursquare users and we wanted to make it more convenient for thefment i don't think that's a huge growth area for us. it's how to make the apps more useful. open table is a great partner, but it's very hard to search for a restaurant on open table, personally, i find. but if you have all your -- all the recommendations for foursquare, which knows you, knows the places you love to go, knows my wife likes organic farm to table, learns that my inlaws love steak and potatoes and it tailors where they g. when they go and pick a restaurant, it's that much more convenient for them to book through open table. but open table doesn't guide them well. katie: so much more i want to ask. one last question. future foursquare, acquired
someday possible? dennis: a big part of what we do is financing is to get the company on this road. we can be a big strong independent company. that's starting to happen. especially with the leadership changes, the brapped new people. we found a business that works. it works really well. consumer apps are doing well. if we're back up here in a couple months, there's always opportunities for people like would you actually go and work with this other company? we have those conversations from time to time, but a big part of financing is let's gean make this business work. that's what we set out to do. katie: all right. good luck in your new role. congrats on being an almost father. thanks for joining us here. [applause] a i'll check in with you guys later. thank you. thank you. four of you. i'll be signing babies later.
all right, our next guest is someone i'm excited about because everybody has those tv shows that are like comfort food for them. like the one you just have playing in the background all the time of the for me that's "the office." and we have b.j. novak in the house which is a big deal. he also launched the list app. we have him and his co-founder, .lease welcome b.j. novak [applause] dave: hey, everybody. i think jordan covered it. it's a recap. jeff and b.j. are the co-founders of the list app. b.j. is a standup comedian. an author, you probably know
him best as a writer, executive produce, and co-star of "the office" he was ryan howard. thank you, guys. hanks for coming out here. greg: what is the list app? >> first of all, as we're announcing today we're now list. we decided to drop the and the app. we were going to bombard people with change all at once. we're li.st. the idea is a place where people can communicate in this extremely elemental form of communication. we have lists in our head on our phone and we have our whole life in this easy to communicate format that for some reason people haven't had an easy to way to share. this is a smart, creative, friendly substantive social way to communicate. through the list. greg: what makes it special? what makes it something that no one else can do? dave: other people here could
do it. i think what makes it special is the people. b.j.: and i think a very simple form something that looks and feels great and intuitive and that has therefore invited a lot of people that are really making up this incredible community of very diverse not only diverse people but diverse areas of humor and personality and people that you do know saying unexpected things. i think we gave a form of it, i won't take a vow on behalf of dev and the team that is very friendly and intuitive and simple anti-community is what makes it special. >> when we first started we weren't sure what was going tonight predominant thing people would make lists about. we wanted to create a categorically agnostic form where it wasn't driving you too hard down any one specific place or tv or food or books or
thoughts. whatever opinions. this is very basic, simple template and just kind of see what happened. we had some ideas about whether it would be a mix that was more weighted toward practical or self-expression. we didn't know anything to point towards to say this is -- it's going tonight predominant team. i think what's cool is that there's something interesting that happens when you don't have to think about impact. and just asking the very simple question like, greg, how was your day today, tell me what happened? and asking you to do that in a paragraph structure versus a list structure. it changes and makes it easier and you kind of -- it lets you write and get your thoughts out without having to worry so much about the structure of the thought. greg: what are some -- your favorite lists? what are some of the things people make that you enjoyed? b.j.: one of the ones that's happened came out yesterday. one of our friends and favorite sers, jack, made a list --
devin: i can't remember the title. but reasons i miss my mother. his mother died. very thoughtful like heartfelt list about kind of why mother's day was hard for him and how it was centered around not having someone to talk to while he was driving. the thing in l.a., we need something to do while we drive. it ranges from very kind of personal emotional lists on that spectrum. toward very kind of fun but still personal but practical lists like my wife makes lists all the time about her favorite hikes and photographs various polices along the hike. here's some cool spots to check out if you ditch off this trail for a minute. whether it's topical or not there's this very, very intrinsic personal vibe to most of the lists. greg: there are already over 250,000 lists on the platform.
b.j.: you can imagine all the different places they are going. there is an adult film star, how i prepare for work. it was extremely interesting. a combination of physical stuff and emotional stuff you go through before that. and i think if you ask someone, anyone in this room, could you write me a quick essay on what it was like on your way to disrupt. are you serious? but if you were ask could you list your thoughts on the way here, it comes out easily. that's why we expected it to be a little more practical. it's very personal. if you list your favorite hikes, you are saying a lot about you. and that is what comes out in the margins even in a rention list. greg: i know you guys have some news. you mentioned the rebranding. the list with the dot in the middle. what else? devin: today we're officially live on android. we have been live for about six
months now. and today we just launched fully functional android application. greg: live now? devin: in the play store. greg: how did you two meet? b.j.: blind date. i guess the tech version of a blind date. i had this idea, very basic idea as we kind of opened with we love lists. every time you talk to someone and say i'm working on a list, i love lists. why is there not a place for all of our lists? that was about as far as i worked it out. i thought i was done. i asked around is there someone that you know that you could -- i asked every friend i had in tech, do you know anyone that could build this with me? i realized very quickly it's like finding a spouse or a show runner in tv. it's the hardest ask in the world to co-founder. i met people who introduced me to people who introduced me to people who suddenly i found this person that i knew, like
you know when a spouse or show runner, this is the guy. how do i convince him? so we met in new york. greg: what was that like? devin: i think it was probably a lot -- greg: was it surreal? out of the blue? devin: it was out of the blue, and ill and honest, i'm not a huge tv person and i asked my wife who b.j. novak was. and she told me. nd i had never seen "the office." yes. we met up and we just -- we immediately just kind of bonded like personally. we were both wearing the same watch and order the the same scotch. we kind of geled there. as we started to talk out the basic thought of the idea, i guess the thing that struck me pretty immediately and really excited me was this idea that the list has like totally redefined publishing. i don't think there's been
anything that's taken enough that's explored, ok -- greg: explain that. devin: creating a platform and community where people can take that form and be a version of their own -- show themselves with same circle you surround yourself with on twitter on instagram. i don't in a moment i decided that basic concept in my head by the end of the dinner. sounds great. b.j.: as a celebrity you tend to be treated as an idiot or a genius. by everyone who meets you. and here was someone who treated me with a guy with a good idea that wasn't necessarily great yet. that's a guy i was looking for. greg: do you think in your case being a celebrity helped or hurt you? b.j.: i think it's helped in terms of it opened doors and people will pick up the phone and check out what you're doing. it doesn't get you that far. it opens the door.
then there's a whole array of bouncers at the door. and then you have to actually have something to show. it certainly opens doors. greg: do you ever find yourself meeting people you're wary because you are a celebrity. there have been other celebrities that handle this differently. they have someone come to them. ok, cool. i'll slab my case on that. b.j.: i wanted to do my homework. and be ready to be the least smart person in the room. i think if you follow those two principles, when you enter a new field, that's as good as you can start out. so i was very conscious of not being that. and of really building it and trying it before we even talked about it. really getting somewhere first. if anything i was oversensitive to that because i do see people think that things will be easy. and i'm from the background ssume it will be hard.
greg: app launched at the end of last year, almost six months exactly. how long were you working on it before launch? devin: we started talking about 2015. he beginning, late and we were in private data for a while. about seven, eight months. we really grew out the community quite slowly over the course of that time. impeachment in stages invited their friend. expanded that way and inviting , inviting . and that translated into something really cool because it let this community build its strength and positivity and vibrancy and a little cocoon, see that it to hasn't miss add step since going live. that ethos and that personality and positivity has held through public launch and growth. b.j.: creativity, too.
greg: right when you guys launched you had a pretty substantial user base of celebrities. just right out of the gate. they were there. how was that coordinated? b.j.: i asked the people that i knew that -- if there are eight or 10 celebrities on they tend to get recognized. it wasn't a disproportionate number. but i think it was really fun to have it be this private data with a bunch of celebrities walking around. it was like a party where you recognize. so people there. it helped set the tone looking back of a really equal community where it didn't feel like people were unauthentic. there was no one's publicist making a list. there was no fear right or wrong. it turned out to be right. no fear that lena will get harassed or anything because at that point it was a very small group. and then eventually when it got gger that attitude still
maintained. greg: having those celebrities launch help in the long run? did they stick around? b.j.: as what i was saying before. it's great to opet door. it's exciting to hear that nthony bour dane -- bourdain posting. and you get there and make a list of his faste-i favorite spy novels. it's great. i'm proud of all these people. it's not like i went through and just picked everyone out of a magazine. andy cohen is a smart, funny guy. there was not like any other thing behind that. but i think that that spirit -- it's exciting. it's exciting people you recognize at the end of the day it's like anything else. it will not take you the distance at all. devin: it also -- the celebrity is a huge part of it, it's really representative of what so crazy cool about the platform is these people -- you have some understanding of and largely at a surface level.
you see the lists they are making and it's categorically different look of who they are. it speaks to the type of expression that the platform brings out in everybody. when you can jecks at that pose it with an idea you have or understanding that you have previously of someone, it makes it all the more stark. b.j.: it also set the tone a little bit like who is the people know. a lot of the celebrities you mentioned were writers and creative people and funny people. that helped set a tone of that being the community. devin: i think these folks have a tendency to -- they are big personalities so it can seem like they are a larger part of the community than they are. at the end of the day they are probably only maybe 200, maybe 250, 300 people of note that are actually on the platform. and even in data it was 6,000 folks. they were a small part of that pie. greg: you mention add couple
numbers earlier how many people on the platform, how many lists. can you repeat those? devin: we have upwards of 250,000 counting lists made. got about 150,000 users. greg: it's early days. so you are already on andrade. what's next? the web? devin: that's another thing we wanted to mention. while we're trucking my goal is in the next four to six weeks to launch a web product. greg: web viewing? web creation? devin: the full suite of capabilities you can do on the android app. greg: we hear the web is the new mobile. that's also part of the name gaining change to list. b.j.: i had this simple domain and we didn't want it to be an app. it makes so much sense. that 250,000 list have been typed on iphone screens tells us what could be done when you can actually be at work and you can actually have time and a full keyboard.
or search, etc. devin: just time share. it makes more sense to be on your laptop. greg: how has the product changed for your users? what have you learned from them? what product changes have you made as a result of what they are telling you? b.j.: as we talked earlier. the biggest thing has been how much self-expression, the core use of this product. devin: people expressing something that is in some way emotional. that can be raw. that can be very positive. but there's very often if you read a list there is a solid chance it will have something to do with me expressing emotion. expressing how i'm feeling, what my thoughts are in a passionate way. and so we really try to kind of embrace the strength of the community. we're always trying to come up with new ways people can get exposed to new people that they
might like. get exposed to lists they might like. we see that these digital connections are very strong. they even translate into even so far back as the data, these start-up meetups. someone made a list, hey, everyone in l.a. on the beta, you want to meet at bar? like 100 people showed up. more than anything else we embraced the vibrancy and interconnectivity of the community. b.j.: now doing a list live show where a bunch of people will read their lists. it's and expressive form. that's where our resources have been headed. if you asked us to predict where we would be six months out there may have been an emphasis if you type in a movie it should auto fill, etc. we may have someday. but it's much more of an expressive community and i think we have been listening to that. greg: with regards to making
transitions like list live. could this be a new talent signing platform? you have people writing these lists and bringing them on stage. is this -- b.j.: yeah. my favorite performance the last list live show in l.a., this guy, dennis flynn, never heard of him before. met him when he came out to l.a. to do this. if you look him up on the platform, all he does is thoughts of a -- it's an internal monologue. this was children's birthday party ma judiciaryans who realize mid trick the rabbit in his hat has died. it's like an 80-item list. you go through it. the crowd loved it. so that's great piece of talent. there's really some incredible people. we're going to bring them out on monday, too. greg: sounds good. b.j., back at the end of last year you guys were on a podcast.
i don't know i'll read this off the card because i don't want to misquote you here. b.j., you said, i always admired tech from the outside the way people admired hollywood. it seemed like this glamorous cool thing. you have been in it for six months now, a little longer than that in beta. is it as glamorous as you thought? b.j.: it is to me because to me ideas are front and center. i think being starstruck by someone who is actually inventing the future, someone from sidewalk labs, that to me is so much more interesting than someone who has the slightly different take on the horror movie. it's reality in a way that is being dreamt of in real time. yeah, i think it's way more. devin: i can see that. greg: backstage across the room i have nothing to say to this man. like shocked. and unable to think of anything to say.
b.j.: he invented something you can talk to instead of a person. greg: what's the end game here? what is success with this project? is it making a profitable big thing? is it just building a really cool community? at what point do you go, all right, we have done a good job here? and the website crashes. b.j.: i think for me i would say if this were the place where everyone thought to put a list, any list that says something about themselves or share something they want to share, i would love it on a product level would be the best place to put any police. i ran into ben silverman of pinterest and i asked him to come in and talk to him. his advice was think about independent of the product what is the list app as it was called at the time. if it 10 years you couldn't recognize the product at all, what would it be? we talked about it and thought it would be a structured
self-expression. so whatever that means to people if it's a structure that makes self-expression easier, to us, i think the best place in the world for that. and that means, you know, as our name says, a list. i think if this were the best place for everyone to put their thoughts, their feelings, their ideas, their advice, whether it's best food to order at this restaurant or thoughts on being a widow, if it's all here i think it would be a wonderful place to explore. greg: do you care about -- b.j.: we're talking about creating something very valuable. so there will be a way to figure out how to make that valuable. right now we're focusing on creating something that we know in our hearts is valuable. devin: that's something that we think about, but right now just trying the best to stay laser focused on building a product people love and keeping this community as strong as it can be as it grows. greg: i looked around a little
bit, couldn't find it. have you guys raised any money for this? devin: yeah. last may. greg: how much? devin: we raised $2 million. reg: cool. what sort of list tends tonight most popular? celebrities? really good stuff from users? devin: i wouldn't break it out that way. whether it's from a celebrity or not and more often than not it is not, it's -- it has to be personal, find. it has to be personal, revealing, it has to be a little bit like putting yourself out there, being vulnerable. i think what people are excited about is the response they get from that. also media trades in curbcy -- curncy. some form of curncy. what i think is great and so
refreshing here is that currency is authenticity. being truthful. being more expressive. putting yourself out there and hoping that people will catch you. and that's what people are being rewarded for. i think that's what they really are enjoying about it. greg: if michael scott ends up being boss on the office, if he made a list what would be on it? b.j.: he would probably tag 99 different people and ask if hey like to be his friend. reasons i'm the best boss. i actually -- i still -- never stopped having ideas for "the office." i made a couple lists of obvious ideas i wish we could have done post 2012. beats by dwight head phones. i wish we could have done that. i wish we could have done a
snoweden -- 12340eden inspired episode. i'm glad you asked that. once you write for something like that, think those characters live in inside you. greg: thanks so much. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> for campaign 2016, c-span continues on the road to the white house. >> we're going to get things done, big things. that's who we're as americans. >> we will have one great american future.
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