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tv   Key Capitol Hill Hearings  CSPAN  September 18, 2016 2:00am-4:01am EDT

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will you make that? >> mr. trump, in honor of the work you have done for these families and the families across the country and the work you are going to do as president of the united states of america -- [applause] >> i present this plaque, representing the loved ones of the families who have been killed by illegal aliens who are here with us today. and with that, we say, from the remembrance project and the families who have lost their loved ones and those who have not yet but unfortunately will lose their loved ones to illegal aliens, we present this memorial to you. [applause] donald trump: thank you very much. [applause] donald trump: thank you very much, folks.
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i really appreciate it. to these unbelievably strong and brave people, we will fight and we will win, and again, i say, your loved ones will not have died in vain. believe me. ok? thank you, everyone. thank you very much. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> c-span's "washington journal" live every day with policy impacts -- that impacts you. willg up, eliana johnson talk about the latest in campaign 2016, recent rolling -- polling, and key senate races. then joe conason will talk about his book on bill clinton's life post-presidency and his role in the clinton foundation and campaign 2016 be sure to watch
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c-span's "washington journal" live, sunday morning at 7:00 a.m. >> last july, hawaii congressman mark takai died at the age of 49 after a brief term in congress and a battle with cancer. c-span sat down with congressman takai last year. it is about 20 minutes. >> congressman mark takai of hawaii, representing the first district in that state. how many congressional districts are in hawaii? >> two. we have four members of our delegation. two senators and two congresspeople. >> what do you think of washington? >> i love it. if i did not live in washington, d.c., i would go to the delegation every quarter. never in my wildest dreams did i ever imagined that i would be sitting here as a member of
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congress. becauseould visit them you were a member of the legislature? >> i was a member of the legislature and a member of the national guard. there were a few opportunities to come to washington, d.c., and it was always a treat. >> it is obviously a long way. now that you are a member of the house, how often do you get back to the district? >> my family -- one of the first things that we decided once i decided to run for congress was where our family was going to stay. we have two very young kids, 13 and 12. the deal was that daddy works in d.c., and my family's at home, so i try to go home as much as possible. not only for my family, to see them, which is important, but also being a new member of congress, i think it's important to go back home and make sure you work in the district -- or in hawaii, for me. >> one of the items you brought from your office is a picture of your family.
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your family is back in hawaii. >> and that's very appropriate. because that was the day that i made my decision to run for congress, august 8, 2013. >> what prompted that decision? >> there were a lot of people coming forward. truthfully, the reason why i'm because unfortunately, the senator passed away. there was a lot of movement in that delegation because of that. lleen hanubusa- co decided to run for senate. there was a spot open. so, in 2013, august 8, we made that decision. >> how much convincing did it take your family? ask the biggest decision was where they were going to live. i think once we got over that and they knew they were going to stay home with their friends and my wife and her family and my
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family, everything was all good at that point. >> coming off, not long ago, a congressional recess. when you go back home, it is not just to go back to the sandy beaches back home, but also to work. are you able to separate out your personal life and also attend to those things in the district? >> believe it or not, i was in the legislature 20 years prior. there is almost no separation. especially in hawaii. when you are out with your family, we have dinner, let's say at the closest shopping mall to our house, which is near pro harbor, parole -- near pearl harbor, pearl ridge. i'm always working. i'm always trying to spend time with my family. my kids grew up through dad being in the legislature and now they are growing up with me being in the congress. i go to the soccer games and the swing meets. the swimimm m--
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meets. always on. >> you spoke about being a member of the military. when did you begin serving? >> july 19, 1999. >> did you serve in iraq? >> i served in kuwait as part of operation iraqi freedom. i'm a proud member of the hawaii army national guard and right now serving as a lieutenant colonel. >> so, do you still have demands on your time for national guard? >> yes. the reason i know where i started, our anniversary is on that year. you have to have been anniversary date -- you have so many days of service. mine is coming up. and i have to make sure it is a good year. >> and you are on the armed services committee. what would you like to have accomplished? >> i am proud of what we recently had accomplished. we spent the last four months working on the national defense authorization act.
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it's a tough measure because it is all inclusive. at the same time, you work hard on it the first four months, then you get it done and you can move on to other things. we worked hard to introduce 29 amendments, of which 28 passed. so, we felt successful. >> you come in as a freshman member but do you think your time in the military got the year of the other members -- the ear of the other members of the armed services committee? >> i would think so. i sit next to another veteran, and seth moulton is alongside us as well. on the democratic side, there's a number of veterans and on the republican side as well. i think our main point and task is to make sure that our perspective, members of the military, and their perspectives, or heard. >> from an organizational
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standpoint, how does congress compared to the military? >> that's a good question. no one has ever asked me that. i think in some ways it compares pretty well. because everything in the militaries about leadership and chain of command -- in military is about leadership and chain of command. in congress, it is like that most of the time. in that way, we have a chairman running our committees. we have the speaker and the majority leader running the houses of congress. we have a general running the national guard in hawaii, and everybody follows his direction. ways, it is in some like that. but in others, there is much more flexibility and freedom being in the legislative branch and in congress because i , would not necessarily tell the general "no," but in some cases, you can tell leadership. i am a democrat, proud democrat.
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i can tell leadership and leadership for lucy -- leader pelosi no in some cases, and it's ok. host: could you see yourself in a leadership position in a committee or other areas? rep. mark takai: absolutely. fortunately, this year, i serve as a ranking member on a -- on contracting in the workforce and a small business committee. so we were very fortunate. i am definitely privileged to have the opportunity to be a lead democrat on a subcommittee right now. in the future, i think it is important for hawaii. our family, when we made the decision, i told them, along with my close friends and supporters, that the commitment to run for congress in this particular seat, especially for a small delegation like we have in hawaii, is a long-term commitment, and if given the privilege of serving for many years, i think it is important for us to build seniority in the house. host: a lot of the committee hearings are covered on c-span and the c-span networks. do you ever get frustrated with
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the limited amount of time you get to ask a witness a question, typically something like five minutes? is that just not enough to get your question answered? rep. mark takai: being in the hawaii state legislature where there was no limit, i appreciate the limit. the armed services committee with nearly 70 members, if everybody had an unlimited amount of time, we would be there for days. so, i think over time, congress has developed this time limit, a policy of five minutes, and in some cases in terms of the floor one minute, i think if you cannot say something within the one minute on the floor, if you cannot say something in five minutes in committee, then you have got to rework your message. host: going back to your campaign and that august, 2013, decision to run, how well-funded were you at the time? how much of it was a concern, and how do you typically continue your fundraising? rep. takai: well, we
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started from nothing. we were very much the first time running a congressional race. a federal race. so we started from scratch. i learned early on that in order to win a congressional race, you have to put together a great team, and i credit tammy duckworth with really helping me through that. tammy and i are college classmates, and i credit myself for helping her get to run for congress in 2008, and we helped her again in 2012. i was here for her confirmation hearing when she was assistant secretary for the v.a. i'm very close to her. she told me, mark, don't worry. i will let you have my whole team, and you will run with my team, and we will work hard to raise money. i did not have to worry about the creation of a team because tammy helped me there. every member of her team, media, poll, print, even fundraising was her team, so we did that, and we just focused on
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fundraising. like i said, we started from nothing. we were trying to raise about $1 million for the primary. we came in a little bit short, , butat delayed our tv buys we had one solid month of tv and that got us over the top. incredible, we started 20 point -- points down. we won by 18 points. so we swung that by 38 points. it was a lot of work. host: does it feel like you have to continuously fund raise? are you able to focus on the legislative work or the constituent work as much as you would like to? takai: is the unfortunate nature of the job. but we are spending a considerable amount of time fundraising and networking and developing relationships both here in d.c. and also in hawaii.
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you know, but it's expensive to run a congressional campaign. our entire campaign last year cost $1.8 million, so we ran a general election campaign that cost over $1 million. most of that goes to tv, and if you take a look at the market in hawaii, it is a lot cheaper than anywhere else, so we are buying a point at something like $100, where some of the big markets are spending up to $1000 per point. yet we need that tv. we are going to keep on raising money, because it is important for us to get that message out. host: what one aspect of hawaii do you think your fellow members typically do not get about the state? rep. takai: that is a good question. i had the opportunity to travel to asia with pelosi. there were 10 of us. it was a bipartisan delegation. i was the only freshman. i had the honor of representing not only the freshman class but also armed services.
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i think through just that visit and the visit to the pacific command, to get the pacific command brief, surprisingly, members -- many senior of our delegation were unaware of the importance of hawaii being the strategic hub and headquarters for military across across asia, the pacific, and the indian ocean, so i think that in and of itself is important to talk about, because i constantly am talking to colleagues and inviting them to hawaii and letting them know how important, strategically important, hawaii is for the united states. host: reading about your background, i see that you were one of the in hawaii to buy a first nissan leaf alternate fuel vehicle. what prompted that decision? rep. takai: well, that goes back to -- truthfully, that was -- that goes back to me being deployed in the middle east in
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2009. hawaii is a very beautiful place, but we have our challenges. we are what i call the most isolated populated land mass in the entire world, and because of that, the need to be more sustainable is critical. the cost of living is high in hawaii, i believe mainly because of the fact that we are not as sustainable as we need to be, so i served in the middle east. i looked around and kind of wondered why we were fighting a war half a world away from hawaii, and i realized it was partially because of oil, black gold. so, when i got home, i told my wife, we have got to put these panels on our roof, and she said, what? i said, we are going to make electricity from the sun. she thought i was crazy. two months after that, she was telling her friends, you know what, our electric bill is zero. it's unbelievable. mark, we put these things on our roof, and now we are not paying electricity. well, around that time, nissan
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could logrly adopters onto the internet and order their car. so, i ordered the car. like you said, i was one of the first -- host: what year was that? rep. takai: five years ago from now, so 2010. i am on my third leaf. every two years, i get a new one, so i just picked up my third one in april. host: does it feel like other members of your state, other hawaiians have picked up this that -- picked up that trend in terms of alternative energy? rep. takai: if everybody could, we would harness the sun. not everyone is as fortunate as my family. because we live in a single-family home, and we own our home. so we have some challenges. some renters and people who live in town homes do not have the opportunity i have. so even in the legislature, we are pushing for these measures that would do more for the community as a whole and move us
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toward sustainability as quickly as possible. host: most mainlanders come to hawaii either on vacation or when the military. you were born and raised in hawaii. what took you from hawaii to the mainland first? what was your first trip back to the mainland? rep. takai: you know, that was probably when i was five years old to go to disneyland in california. a lot of people travel to california from hawaii, and many people still go to disneyland. that was probably my first trip. but i started swimming when my family was living in guam. host: competitively. rep. takai: competitively. so, swimming brought me to the mainland probably twice a year. host: did your dad work in the military? worked for my dad the federal government. we were stationed and treated like military from about fifth grade to seventh grade. we lived in guam. host: you mentioned senator inouye. you brought a picture along.
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tell us about this. parents bought it at a democratic auction. host: tell us about the people in the auction. rep. takai: on the far left is senator inouye, then the congresswoman from hawaii, and on the far right, another senator from hawaii. host: a state senator? no, a u.s. senator. rep. takai: no, these are members of the congressional delegation. i tell this story almost every day about what it's like to be here representing hawaii. i have many stories about senator inouye and about patsy, but i talk about being on the shoulders of people like them, you know, and you know it because we all work here, but the halls of congress, especially capitol hill, it's a very different place at night, you know, when all of the tourists, all of the tour groups are gone. and we are walking to
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and from votes in the capital. i heard stories of senator inouye talking about these long nights in the capital. in fact, he had his office as senate president pro tem in the capital, and it is just a surreal experience to be walking through the halls and just hearing your footsteps and realizing that these people who came before me also represented the state of hawaii. in fact, senator inouye was the first elected member of congress, and he came right after hawaii became a state. host: are their traditions in the hawaiian delegation that most people wouldn't know about, a piece of million -- of memorabilia or something that is passed down from member to member regardless of their party? rep. takai: nothing has been passed down. we have gone into the cage upstairs. that has some memorabilia from other members, and i pulled out some of the portraits and the artwork from previous members,
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but i think in terms of hawaii, we are very proud of the fact that people love us for our macadamia nuts and chocolate. think when we -- i think when we talk about hawaii and being on the hill, there is almost an expectation that you either come with a lei, wearing a lei, or you come with chocolate covered macadamia nuts. host: that's what your fellow colleagues -- rep. takai: yeah. so i bring them out once in a while. host: you talked about what you would like to do on the armed services committee. more broadly, how long do you hope to serve, and what are your broader goals in congress? takai: i'm 47 now. i was elected in the state legislature and served for 20 years, and as i mentioned earlier, the commitment that our
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family has made, if given the opportunity and privilege, to put in another 20 years, so that would make me 67. that is not too old. so, yes, if given the opportunity to stay here, i think it is critical for hawaii, and specially -- especially in this particular seat, to develop seniority. and as you know, for the most part, this place works on seniority. host: you talked about serving on a college newspaper and being a political science major. what about your kids, what are they interested in, and what would you like to see them do? rep. takai: i would like to see them not get into politics. i tell young people, you can always run for politics later, but get a life, get a job, raise your family. maybe a few years down the road, possibly come back and run for office. i hope they don't have aspirations to follow me right out of college, because it was really tough for my wife and me early on. host: but then you do not have a
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chance to meet george takei. tell us that story about the campaign. rep. takai: mark takano is a member from california, a sophomore. he and i met through tammy duckworth. it was duckworth, honda, and takano supporting takai. mark takano knows george takei, and george endorsed me in the primary. the headline read, takei and takano endorse takai. and it's really funny. people to this day get us confused, just by name. takei -- is it takei or takai or takano? all three of us get confused. we have the pleasure now of calling ourselves friends, and, in fact, i am going to see george takei in a few months. he is debuting in a new broadway
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show, focusing on the japanese-american experience, and i am looking forward to that show. host: well, we hope we get it right. congressman mark takai. of hawaii. thanks for being with us. in this past week, friends, colleagues, and family members gathered to take part in a memorial service to honor his life at the u.s. capitol. we heard from -- congressman takai represented hawaii's first district and was 49 when he died in july. this is 40 minutes.
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♪ [playing "the star-spangled banner"] ♪ ♪
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♪ ♪ ♪
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>> please remain standing for the invocation. >> it is a delight to have the takai's as a part of our church ohana, family. it's a great delight and privilege to have called mark my friend and brother. it is an honor to lead us all in prayer as we give thanks for mark together. may we pray. romans 8:38, i'm convinced that neither death nor life, angels nor rulers, and present nor
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things to come, power, depth, nor anything else in all creation will be able to separate us from the love of god. in christ jesus, our lord. almighty and everlasting father, we give you thanks for the chance to gather here today and -- in gratitude for the life of your servant, mark, and for the difference he made to your world. we thank you for mark's warmth and inspiration, his friendship and example. we ask that you would fill each of us with that same light of christ that we will bring your transformation to each of our communities. most merciful god whose wisdom is beyond our understanding, so surround sammy, matthew, kayla and all of mark's family with your love that they may not be overwhelmed by their loss but have confidence in your goodness and strength to meet the days to come. may the hope of heaven be the most beautiful reality to them and to us all this day.
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lord of all, we praise you and uspraise you that you judge with infinite mercy and justice. and love everything you have made. in your mercy, turn the darkness of death into the dawn of new life and the sorrow of embarking into the joy of heaven. these things we ask in the name of the father, the son, and the holy spirit, amen. >> please be seated. >> to sammy and the takai ohana, speaker ryan, leader pelosi, colleagues in congress, i'm honored to join you to remember a man who committed his life to serving others and who embodied the aloha spirit.
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mark was one of the best colleagues i've ever known. through his time in the legislature and his service in the national guard, as a father and husband and member of congress, he was truly a happy warrior. he never complained. he understood what an honor it was to serve the people of hawaii. because of his joyful determination, his humility and his skill, he became an effective legislator for hawaii in his short time in congress. he is a person who advocated for the department of defense in hawaii, for service members, for veterans and the environment. he did it all with passion and without any trace of the toxicity that has become all too common in washington. beyond his public service, he was a loving husband and father and he raised two amazing children. i know that they continue to grieve, but i hope they are
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comforted at least somewhat by their faith in god and the knowledge that mark was one of hawaii's great statesman. that he was well loved, he was well loved, respected and that he is missed. mark was a soldier in every sense of the word. full of dignity, honor, respect and determination. his life was cut short but it was a life well-lived. we love you, mark. aloha. >> good afternoon and aloha. mark's spirit is with us. to sammy, matthew, kayla, eric, naomi, gary and the entire toke -- takei ohana, which is all of
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us. it is a privilege to be with you today and recall what a wonderful person mark was. i worked with and knew mark for over 20 years. when we both served in congress, i consider him to be one of my closest allies and i refer to him as my younger brother. i have many memories of mark. one memory that i would like to share with you occurred last year when the two of us went to selma, alabama along with dozens of our colleagues from both the house and senate to commemorate the 50th anniversary of bloody sunday, that historic march led by reverend dr. martin luther king. and that march, in 1965, some of you may still remember the pictures that appeared in the new york times the following
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day. it showed dr. king wearing a white carnation lei. he had become friends with reverend abraham akaka who was the brother of our calling. they had become friends. reverend akaka sent the lay to the marchers to stand in solidarity with the marchers. here we were, last year, mark decides that we should commemorate that and to carry out that tradition of aloha and love that exemplified the march in 1965. he wanted to make sure that every single colleague from the house and senate had fresh lei. over 100 were ordered in the world to be flown into alabama.
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they were not there. we had absolutely no idea where they were in transit from the west coast to where we were. i looked at mark and said, you are the national guard guy, you know logistics. i'm sure you can take care of this. so, for the next day or so, he tried to figure out where these were. i'm sure a lot of people were wondering who he was talking to. sure enough, he got it done and the lei arrived just in time. we have pictures of him opening up the boxes. one special lei was presented to john lewis who was one of the original marchers. john got a carnation lei which is similar to the white one dr. king were 50 years before. as we marched across the bridge
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holding hands with our first african american president, barack obama, it was a moment. mark did everything with a lot of joy, determination and aloha. i know how much mark admired dr. martin luther king. i want to close with a quote from dr. king. it is from a speech he gave the 1965. -- it is from a speech he gave in 1967. and i quote -- let us begin. let's rededicate ourselves to the long and bitter, but beautiful struggle for a new world. this is a calling of the sons of god. our brothers wait eagerly for our response. shall we say the odds are too great? shall we tell them the struggle is too hard?
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will our message be that the forces of american life against our arrival? we send our deepest regrets. or will there be another message of longing, hope, solidarity with their yearnings of commitment to the cause, whatever the cost? the choice is ours. and though we might prefer it otherwise, we must choose in this crucial moment of human history. we are at a crucial moment. we know that mark would have wanted us to do the right thing. mahalo. >> aloha.
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thank you all for gathering here today. your presence is truly a testament to mark's life, his character and heart. during my first deployment to iraq, there was a big sign at one of the main gates from our camp that most of the convoy and patrol went out of that read in big letters, is today the day? a reminder every day that our time could come at any moment. a reminder that none of us really knows how much time we have. mark lived his life in this spirit. making the most of all of his 49 years and dedicating his life in the service of others. as a father and a son, a husband, brother, colleague, soldier and friend, mark's life was truly driven by his love for the people of hawaii and our country.
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positively impacting, countless lives along the way. i had the good fortune of knowing mark for over a decade. he was there when i was sworn in as a state representative in hawaii. we served together. he was the chair and i was the vice chair. mark was standing by my side and i enlisted in the hawaii national guard. we were deployed together. we served here in congress together. just over a year ago, he was there to celebrate with my family and friends at my wedding. it has been through these last several weeks of reflection that i realize that mark has been there for every major marker and milestone in my life. what is incredible is i can't tell you how many people i have spoken to in turn, who says the exact same in about mark's present in their life. in the days and weeks after he
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lost mark, i've had many conversations with people both here and in washington sharing their own testimony about how their lies were positively impacted by mark. i've heard from many of my fellow national guard soldiers who served under mark's command. i've heard about their deep respect for his leadership, what he taught them, how he mentored them, how seriously he took his job as a leader of soldiers -- taking care of them. our lives, our communities, our state and country are better off with his service. we will forever miss you, your smiling face, you're ready laugh, and your heart of aloh. his impact will forever live on. mahalo. ♪
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[singing hawaiian song] ♪
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[singing hawaiian song] ♪ >> aloha.
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sammy, matthew, kyla, eric and naomi, sister nadine, ronnie, ross, father-in-law, gary. aloha to all of you. mahalo for sharing mark with us. we are gathered here today in the old house chamber where lincoln served beneath the same clock lincoln heard ticking. the gaze of cleo of the muse of history in the presence of the vice president of the united states. for almost two centuries, cleo and her clock reminded the men and women that our time is short and that history is watching. mark takai's service in congress defined what it means to meet the challenge.
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facing bravely to the judgment of history, earning a worthy place in the honorable heritage of our democracy and using his time well. as his family has said, mark lived his dream. in his service to america and hawaii, congressman tokai embodied our nation's highest ideals. in his fight against cancer, he showed the courage and strength that defined the wonderful person he was. all of us are heartbroken by the death of our colleague and friend, mark takai. his passing is a tragedy and i speak for all of our colleagues when i say that. everyone who had the privilege of knowing mark knew how devoted he was to his family, his wife, his children. i know we are deeply grateful to the family for sharing him with
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our country for so many years. in the military, the state legislature of hawaii and in the united states congress. especially knowing that that service often took him to the other side of the world from their home in hawaii. when he had only been in the congress for a few weeks, i had the privilege of bringing mark on a congressional delegation to asia. i wish you all could have seen the dignity and diplomacy with which he engaged in discussion on our national security, economic interest and human rights. for that special grace, we thank his parents. in burma, cambodia, korea, japan, he upheld our values and
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was received beautifully, especially in japan. we thank the ambassador for joining us today. bringing of the leis to the 50th anniversary of selma, you heard the center tell the store. he is brand-new in congress and only a few weeks really sworn in and he had the idea that others must have thought, why did i not think of that. bringing leis to selma or diplomacy to asia, strength to the congress or joy to us all, mark was recognized as a unique and true leader. that is why, mr. vice president, we are all very grateful to you for embracing mark in life. we will never forget that. and for honoring us with your presence today. i hope it is a comfort to mark's family that so many people mourn your loss and are praying for
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you at the same time. we will all be family for as long as the future holds. aloha for the future. thank you. >> aloha. when i think of mark takai, the first thing that comes to mind is a lighter moment. just a few months after i became speaker, he made sure to give me an aloha shirt. [laughter] he was determined to convince me to allow it to be acceptable dress code on the house floor. he made a heck of a pitch. for a moment i indulged the thought, because if we would let him have the aloha shirt on the floor than the wisconsinites could have our cheese heads. [laughter]
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>> i think that symbolizes his distinct qualities. a zest for life. pride in his heritage. and his persuasive gift. he was a dear colleague. he was someone i got to know next to me on an exercise bike every thursday morning. not everyone receives such an outpouring of grief when they pass. that was the kind of man or -- mark takai was. you can feel his absence now for cicely because he was such a presence in so many lives. -- precisely because he was such
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presence in so many lives. -- i wish there was a way we could capture his spirit and save it for the future. anyway, there is, all these great memories he left us. he said he was proud to serve the people of hawaii. well, all of us were very proud to have known him, to have served with him, and you have called him our friend and our colleague erin we will be praying for him, for you, sammy, and for your children. and for your extended family. i also thank god for bringing him into our lives for such a short but sweet time. mahalo, mark. aloha. i would like to present to you, sammy, an american flag that we flew over the capital on the day of mark's burial.
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v.p. biden: when fate defies fear, when duty throws the gauntlet down to fate; when honor scorns compromise with death, this is heroism. he could have been talking about your husband, your dad, your son. i apologize for being late. the leader of burma was in the oval office and i had to be there.
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but i want to say that i didn't know mark well. but i knew him. i didn't have to know him a long time, sammy, but i knew him. and it is obvious by the way everybody spoke before i met him that he was a beloved son, loyal and decent father and husband, a congressman who had an enormous, enormous amount of potential, and a lieutenant colonel in the hawaii national guard. everything about him was not unlike his political idol and mine as well. the guy who looked over me when
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i got here as a 29-year-old kid was a guy named danny noah. danny befriended my boys when i got here. my wife and daughter were killed right after i was elected in an accident. i would bring them to work a lot. they were only four and five years old. and danny would come over and he would just take them. he would take them back to his office. danny had the same demonstrable courage on the battlefield and the moral courage in the political arena that your son had. that your dad had, that your husband had. what nancy was referencing a moment ago was i spoke to the caucus, the democratic caucus in baltimore, the retreat we had.
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and mark had just been diagnosed -- not unlike my son. with a diagnosis that was, he knew and you knew, was essentially a death sentence. and the caucus paid tribute to him. and i acknowledged him. and went up and hugged him. you know what he said to me? he said, i'm so sorry, mr. vice president. i'm so sorry about beau. i'm so sorry about your son. he had just come from hopkins. he was not unaware what his prospects were.
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he said, i don't want my kids to have to worry about me. i don't want anybody to feel sorry for me. well, his dignity was palpable. paul, nancy and i, we have been around here a long time. we have seen many, many congressmen come and go. good women and men. though certain people, when they arrive, they just have this thing about them. there is just a presence. it not just optimistic or outgoing. but he carried himself with dignity. nancy has heard me say before,
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an expression my mother knew. she would say, joey, look at me. when she wanted to make a point, she would say "look at me." and she would say, just remember, you are defined by your courage and you are redeemed by your loyalty. the women and men who served under mark, colleagues he served with, and my guess is everyone he knew knew this is a man of courage who valued loyalty. and i say to the kids, there's nothing easy about this, to state the obvious. i know you all appreciate this memorial service, but i know it's hard. when we stand up and we talk about mark, it brings back the moment.
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it takes courage for you to be here. but i say to the kids, matthew and kaila, the rest of your life, your dad is with you. i promise you. every important decision you make in your life, you are going to ask yourself what would he do? what would he want me to do? and just by answering the question, you are going to be replicating who he was. as long as you guys are around, your dad is going to be with you. with your grandparents and your mom. i mean that sincerely. that is not hyperbole. that is not an exaggeration. you are bone of his bone, blood of his blood.
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and the only thing i have observed, is deep in your broken hearts, the way to get through it is just hang onto each other. hold each other tight. because you know that's what he would want you to do. you know what he wants you to do. and the best way to honor his memory, in my humble opinion, is to do what he wants you to do. i'm told there is an old hawaiian proverb that says the tide recedes but leaves behind seashells on the sand for every joy that passes something beautiful remains. he remains. he remains with this incredible family.
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in a country full of hope and possibilities because women and men like mark who believe so deeply and gave so much. sammy, i know there's nothing that can ease that broken heart right now, but i promise you the day will come when mark's memory brings a smile to your lip before it brings a tear to your eye. my prayer for you and your family is that they come sooner rather than later. but i promise you. i promise you it will come. just hang onto each other. god love you all. and may god protect our troops. >> in life, we often make plans
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for ourselves. but as often happens, we find ourselves on a different journey than what we had planned. our journey will never be the same, but our lives have all been made better having known mark. he was a wonderful husband, father, son, and brother. we will miss his smile, his
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laugh, his calls from d.c. to say hello even if it was 2:00 or 3:00 a.m. here, just so that he could talk to us before the kids went to sleep. he was always on the go and said sleep was overrated. he worked hard and he truly loved representing the people of hawaii. mark loved being a congressman and tried to spread the aloha spirit, not only through his attire, but through his actions as well. and in this spirit, i would like to take the opportunity to express our warmest aloha to you. our hawaii delegation has always been a part of our aloha. thank you for your love and support. you have all made such wonderful tributes to mark and stood by
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his side for many, many years. we love you all. vice president biden, it is such an honor to have you here today. i know earlier this year, mark himself was able to express to you how he felt and the admiration for the work you're doing. so thank you so much. to speaker ryan and leader pelosi, thank you for the opportunity to remember mark here in d.c. leader pelosi, you have been one of mark's biggest supporters since the beginning, thank you for who you are and for our children. i would also like to make a special thank you to tammy duckworth for opening up her home to us when the entire family came to visit, as well
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as mike honda, for his home in his car, which we used to go to church. thank you for all the support that you gave mark from the very start and especially what you have done for our children. thank you. and of course, our warmest mahalos to shawn callahan and mark's office staff for just everything you have done. you will all forever be a part of our ohana and our hearts will never forget your kindness. there were also many of you here in congress that prayed for mark and for that, he was extremely grateful. your continued prayers, your notes, your text messages, your calls, all of your support helped give him strength to face his challenge. we were so blessed to have met the pastor of holy trinity church. the church became our home away
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from home in the many hands that prayed for mark was a gift to us. mark's faith in god was strong until the end and he wrote in his final wishes, i love my god. do not worry about me. i am in heaven. through it all, he never gave up hope and went peacefully surrounded by those he loved most. from the entire takai ohana here today, as well as from our entire ohana back home in hawaii, thank you from the bottom of our hearts for being here today to remember mark. mahalo and love to you all. thank you. >> let us pray.
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oh lord, our god, we have been taught by the master that no greater love exists than one laid down our life for another. as we leave this place today, may we never forget this man who served in our armed forces, ready to answer his master's call.
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representative mark takai served the citizens of his home state hawaii for many years and at many levels of government. in all those years, in the few short months here in washington, it was clear to all he encountered that mark was a true statesman, dedicated to the welfare of his fellow citizens. may we all be such good and faithful servants. bless us all, but bless especially his family and all those who mourn the loss of so great a man, congressman mark takai. amen. >> please remain seated until the official party and family
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have departed.
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>> today on newsmakers, california congressman looks at the reported russian hacking of the u.s. computer systems and the counterterrorism strategies of hillary clinton and donald trump. he currently serves as ranking member of the house intelligence committee. -- watchnterview newsmakers at 10:00 a.m. and 6:00 p.m. eastern here on c-span. now, npr correspondent moderates a discussion on american views and treatment of refugees. we heard from photographers who captured images and how those images affected national perception. held at the annenberg center for photography, this is one hour
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and 15 minutes. >> the microphone works great. one challenge down. thank you for the generous introduction. thank you or coming. it is a useful day in southern california. there are many things you could be doing. i hope you have all seen the fantastic exhibit. i saw it last week. i come to this space as frequently as i can and i tell every visitor to go to the annenberg phot space. you have to see this place. it is a gem of los angeles. a great way to spend time. thank you so much for being here. let us turn to the conversation at hand in hand our guest.
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a short introduction and as i told them in conversations, if you are curious about the background, google them. i have long resumes. -- they have very long resumes, longer than my own. i will be brief. on the far left is a professor of law at ucla. she is the new director for the center of near eastern studies at ucla. a graduate of the yale school and edited the yale law review. to her right in the center is an historian of photography with an emphasis in documentary photography, social activism, she earned her ba at bernard college.
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went to the institute of the arts. and harvard. she is working on a project about the civil war. then, to my immediate left, a teacher from usc. of american studies and ethnicity. the author of a novel "the sympathizers," which one a little something called the pulitzer. i think i have heard of it. it is about the vietnamese immigration and refugee experience that told in the context of a thriller. a great read. and he is working on another called the refugees.
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check out the sympathizer on bookstores. let's set up the issues with the international refugee crisis as it exists right now. in preparation for this i did a , little homework. the u.n. says there are 65 million refugees now in the world. that is about one out of every 113 people on the planet. it is about the same size as the population of canada, australia, and new zealand combined or in california terms, as many refugees where people up and forced from their homes for the entire population of california plus another 20-25 million people. you cannot see a news program or read about this without hearing something about refugees, particularly in the superheated campaign. i was at philadelphia at the convention and in cleveland and heard a lot about refugees and a lot of fear expressed about
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refugees and the threat they may pose to america according to some right now. if i can throw this conversation over to you, it is often described as a crisis of historic proportions. the displacement of people. people forced to leave their homelands. >> thank you. i would say that the choice to frame this as a crisis is it -- is itself political and what i mean by that is this. obviously there are a lot of serious threats. people face horrific circumstances in syria, somalia, iraq. they are experiencing genuine crisis. but when we talk about these numbers we need to put it in a broader perspective.
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for example, a country like france process is about 80 million tourists a year without challenges. they manage the flows and cope with that in the ordinary course of how they run society. the question is, can we manage the kind of population flows we see and the answer is yes, if we chose to. the numbers do not represent an unmanageable or a control of the flow.
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but the framing of the does need into political choices which are automatic. first, if we think of it as a crisis we go to the most extreme choice of solution rather than thinking calmly about it. secondly, the political strategies themselves have to endorse a way of framing refugees as a problem instead of a potential benefit to the system and that can and of itself contributes to xenophobia which has dramatically exasperated the problems we are seeing. to think we would want to manage without resorting to a frame of crisis. >> yes. from the u.n., about a month or two ago i did an event in new york city. with samantha power, the u.s.
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ambassador to the u.n. so, you can correct me but i believe the 60 plus million figure, 21 million are refugees. i think it is a very clinical term. a very political category and he gets to the issue of why it is they are considered troublesome. why situations we do not want to classify as refugees. >> that 65 million includes crossing borders, driven by war, poverty, famine, what have you. people who are basically staying within the borders of a particular country. >> 21 million refugees. 65 million people and forced migration. crossing borders. the larger picture, 250 million migrants annually voluntarily. who choose to leave their country of origin and live at least for one year outside their country.
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in addition, there are internally displaced individuals, those numbers are not included in any of those categories. >> thank you. i want to come to you about images of refugees throughout history. you are a refugee yourself, and you proudly embrace that term. >> i have to forcibly embrace that term because so many people want to call me and immigrant. i am a refugee. the reason why i have to insist on this is because in the context of the united states to be an immigrant it's really well within the dominant mythology of what the united states is. i will give me some examples. hurricane katrina, we saw all of these pictures of people but then displaced and the question arose, what do we call these people?
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you yourself used the term refugee. it is really interesting that both president bush at the time and jesse jackson said, these people are not refugees. possibly the only time these two people agreed with each other. [laughter] but they both agreed it is un-american to say. for jesse jackson to call african americans because so many to call them refugees as well so there is something that is about being a refugee that counters how americans want to see themselves. it is not possible for americans to be refugees, it is someone else. >> in your specialization, when it comes to how refugees and immigrants have been represented in popular culture through photography by the media, what is the same and what has changed over the last 100 years?
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>> we can see the kind of images that americans who have been 20thed to in the early century in which the kind of mythology referred to with some is. this is classic. >> going to get their name changed to something americans can pronounce -- >> they are humble. it is in orderly process. you can see them checking the documents. it is a very orderly process. people were very humble. so, that is not what we see now as images. we see images of refugees and immigrants as disorderly. often -- actually, this photographer is projecting the dominant image for the news. the kind of invasion image.
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people in boats, in words -- in hordes, kind of invading this country or another country. >> i think of the photo that was used in the campaign for britain's exit from the european union. controversial. a line of people. it did not say whether or from or where they are going. >> something like that is dehumanizing. crowds of people where we cannot pick out individuals. here, the use of that hand in the ground and media week brings us into this space. we can see the range of emotions being expressed. we can pick out individuals and see reactions to the arrival and this is one of the things being discussed in the film, in the exhibition. >> going back to the ellis
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island photo, that was a much more controversial issue at the time, right? we look at that now, hindsight, a classic success story to make a new life here in america but at the time wouldn't people look at the photo and draw another kind of conclusion? the invasion of america at that time? >> if you look at the photo, it is an orderly image. a particular type of immigrant. pius. you are looking at more than just this one. often portrayed as very religious, right? the sort of people we quote, wanted, if people are coming there are least religious people and humble people. >> were there captions on these? that would help dictate how they would be interpreted? >> captions like this would be
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applied later on. these images were used in the news stories. at that time they would just put the image in the newspaper and it might not have that kind of contextual information. >> do you think we sometimes romanticize how we treat new arrivals in this country? immigrants or refugees, we remember in hindsight the united states welcoming them with open arms. italians, irish, poles, people from the middle east. but at the time it was a much more chaotic, ugly reception then we think now. >> i think now we look at refugees, like syrian refugees
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for example. from aved an e-mail doctor, a very educated individual saying, you don't understand what it is like. in the 19 century, and chinese immigrants, when you look at that cartoon depiction of chinese immigrants from that time. they were horrifying. the depth of racism in american society for the chinese was incredible. now because chinese americans and should japanese immigrants are so well assimilated it is hard to believe. new immigrants must be much more terrifying than the chinese back then. >> certainly there are images, if you scroll forward to the images of the orphan city, two more images, this image. we see something like this. an image of the orphan city. >> what is the context?
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>> armenian genocide, i will speak about it in just a second. calling people's attention to the fact that this is an image that portrays refugees as a population to be managed and controlled. we associate the aerial view of the military. you make an aerial view to show your organizations skills. we see an image of a camp. an aerial view of people organized in different sections, wearing uniforms. the aerial emphasizes that as well as showing the layout of the camp itself. we see an image of refugees as a people to be controlled. an image that implies criminalization. they are inherently criminals and need management. >> i would say that's one thing i find striking in thinking of the crisis and genocide is that
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we are witnessing very similar scenes a century apart and one way to think about that dichotomy that i was describing is to think about the legacy of the genocide and those refugee populations today, a century later, for example, sitting in los angeles, we know the armenian american community, likely descendents of those survivors, are viewed as in important element of what makes the city a thriving city and are part of the mosaic that no one today has described as part of that and you can imagine that one century ago, they were echoed, probably many of the same kind of sentiments echoed today. it is both distressing to that cycle and may be an able's us have a window in taking about
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refugees and their contributions it differently. we in this country have an advantage because we pride ourselves on being an immigrant nation at some level. so as xenophobia can say they have been lately in our political culture have an alternative narrative available refugees and their contributions it differently. that one can appeal to. trying to integrate, to flip that narrative to the benefit. >> do you agree with what he said, that in our heads we sometimes put the immigrant on one side, the immigrant represents hard work, goodness, readiness to assimilate in his or her new country into the refugee is the more "other" kind of person who we think of as being more suspicious and we are more skeptical of. do you agree that is often how it plays out? >> in the world i inhabit which
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is largely about international law and policy, strangely there is a different dichotomy. refugees are framed as people entitled to protection in migrants are seen as people who are wrongly trying to make claims on the society to which they arrive in that framework can be troubling and we can speak more about that. there is a language the refugee is deployed to exclude people from legal defense and material assistance in ways i think art -- in ways that are deeply damaging and produces a clinical struggle to be defined as a refugee. as opposed to a migrant, who represents a greater threat. the other piece i think that is interesting to think about as we think about a refugee who is vulnerable and needy, a population defined by humanitarian needs which
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eliminates agency, which removes their ability to move to benefits in terms of framing and produces a kind of way of thinking about them that requires them to continually perform gratitude in a variety of ways which i think is also really stifling. >> thank you, thank you, thank you for whatever you just said. >> a deeply traumatized population to assimilate into a quite different culture and the performance is something that is very problematic so whether our society shares a view of immigrants, those may be attributes which in those countries, imagining that to be a narrative of striving and hard work and so on, it is lightly a different framing but at an international level, it is deployed in a problematic way. >> does it have to do with how the u.n. itself literally defines refugees? >> yes. it has to do with the refugee
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convention and it history and the ways we think about different legal avenues for safe mobility. many more barriers have gone up through the 21st century. fences and borders. europe represents front-line states. they have become secondary front the real frontlines of the middle east. they contain the population there. >> lebanon, turkey, jordan, by far have the largest -- i mean, even egypt and iraq, impoverished countries going through their own crises. in the case of iraq come -- in the case of iraq a country that , hasn't reduced 70 refugees still has more than -- has in terms of incorporating the populations on a long-term basis within their borders. the response has been to limit
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legal avenues. to continue to travel beyond them. that number of refugee status, becomes one of the very few relatively safe and legal means to travel if it enables you to overcome that barrier. under those pressures, we have a different international crisis, a crisis of holocene and law -- a crisis of policy and law where our framework is not capable of coping with the numbers. not because the numbers are uncontrollable. thatrepresent a challenge should be a crisis in terms of resources. but it is a crisis of political will and framework. >> in terms of the turkey context, one out of every five people in turkey right now is a refugee of some sort? does that sound right? no, but it is true in lebanon.
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the equivalent in the u.s. would be over our course of five years, if we absorbed 80 million refugees. is a largerh country, has about 75 million and they have absorbed the largest absolute number of refugees. that represents a smaller proportion of turkey's large population. otherbanon, and these smaller countries in the developing world, worldwide refugees -- 86% of all refugees -- the demographic meaning of that is very different than it would be for the u.s. or a european union country or larger and book your countries. >> can we go back to the south china sea? illustrates some of the things we have been talking about. that says thele
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u.s. has now accepted 8000 syrian refugees. 1975, the u.s. took in 165,000 refugees. the issue of crisis is a political issue. we can you can absorb those refugees if we want to, but we don't for various political reasons. ne thing that this picture ells us that is powerful about the refugee story and images is that on one hand, it can be construed as an invasion, or it can be construed as a rescue. that is how the united states is chosen to see its role around the rate vietnam war. the united states sees itself as having rescued hundreds of thousands of refugees, which allows the u.s. to forget that it fought wars in the first place and helped create those efugees.
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the gratitude is a political narrative. i don't want to be seen as ngrateful. >> do many of you remember when the vietnamese arrived in 1975 nd 1976? camp pendleton had a huge camp that was temporary for some months, and texas too i believe. > enormous numbers, and we are talking in a certain context, only 10,000. it looks like we'll have that figure a little more this year according to the papers today. it is a small number compared to what we have seen in the past. >> some of them have become very successful. americans tend to think of this as a success story in contrast >> in 1975, the majority of
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americans did not want to accept southeast asian refugees. this is a congressional act that turned out well. we forgot that in the narrative f successful refugees. >> when does that fade away? when does the refugee who doesn't go away -- go back home, stop being the refugee? what do they have to do to reach that plateau or that place? >> that points to two things that are interesting to think about. when does someone simply become an armenian american and so on? think that is generational question. the children that are born as second-generation become that fully assimilated person. in some ways, the person that has arrived is almost never able to fully shut the identity of someone who arrived as a refugee. that is an open question for an anthropologist. there are populations in the
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world who are refugees for ultiple generations. or example, a city in syria is a palestinian refugee camp that ultimately has turned into a city, but never stopped being a refugee camp. the people there never gained admission. now they are refugees again -- there were starvation conditions, there was a complete siege of that city. people were slaughtered on mass, and some refugees that reached europe are palestinian third or fourth generation refugees. similarly, there is a camp in kenya where you have three or four generations of people still framed as refugees. the challenge to people who are working in the refugee framework is how long can you frame in the ays that we have described a
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population as to be rescued or subject to humanitarian assistance, as opposed to in eed of direct resettlement and political identity and development assistance, meaning an investment in their ability to be self-reliant and integrated in economies that continue to hurt them. >> do you think in terms of how we portray immigrants/refugees that we are doing a good job now? >> i think the photographers in the exhibition, and we can go to any of the images -- maybe go ack to that one, i think the images in the exhibition are actively trying to address a lot of the ideas that we have just discussed. the image of the rest -- the refugee as passive. a lot of these photographers are
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actively trying to overturn a lot of these stereotypes. we see in photographs like this, photographing men waiting for a train, but notice -- this is a landscape that is strewn with lots of debris, and these men tand in front of the street in order to suggest a sense of resilience for these people, and also to suggest that they are ot victims here. there are actively trying to formulate a life for themselves. i think you see that throughout the images and exhibition. these photographers have bsorbed a lot of the debates about how photography shapes our understanding of political events, and they are examples of photographers trying to work to
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actively change the way in which photographers betray these types of populations in the past. in many ways, they are working -- a lot of photographers don't have the luxury of being commissioned to do a project and also spending lots of time with their subjects. >> that's another issue. >> exactly. it is not necessarily the first time that they have partnered with an organization to produce a photographic body of work. in 1995, a book called, "exodus," was produced alongside a group which was a group of photographers dedicated to documenting the lives of refugees. they produced a book that was purposely trying to use photography as a tool. hey've done this before, and they have recognized how photography done in different ways can really speak to audiences and teach them new things about this xperience. >> as a reporter, and as
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somebody whose job it is to communicate the stories in the context of where we are in los angeles, i am struck by how poor of a job we do collectively in explaining these new communities that have arrived. it is almost like they live in separate universes, whether it is more established communities like the vietnamese-american community or newer arrivals. i am wondering if you all have any reaction to that, in terms of how refugees are covered in contemporary coverage by the media. >> i think most americans don't know a whole lot about the newer communities of refugees. that's because american society as a whole is instructed to ignore these people. i grew up in a vietnamese refugee community and i know intimately. so many americans said we never knew about this perspective. even people who live next to vietnamese we're -- vietnamese refugees and communities. the entire way is geared not to
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pay attention to people who don't have power, whether it is refugees or poor people. there's so much work that needs to be done for those of us who are scholars or storytellers who are working on these communities, but the odds are stacked against us. we don't have access to abc or hollywood to get these stories out there. the stories of the unwanted. if you go to that portrait here, you see that this is one of the things that he is trying to do, which is to put a face to people, to show the people that we see on the street, there is a story behind them. he purposely creates these
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images in a way. we have all seen kids of obama or other politicians and celebrities he has photographed. he works consistently in the same way in order to create the democratic platform. as images treat everyone the ame way in order to speak to the common humanity that we share, but also to insist the stories behind each of our faces. > one of the contradictions is that we want to argue that refugees have regency. but they have power. all that is true, but by definition someone who is a refugee is excluded from these types of things. martin schuller is not a refugee. if you must emphasize it is not a refugees themselves are doing this work. at a refugee can do something like this, they are no longer refugees. we are already distance from the population we once were. despite the fact that refugees have the agency to get on that boat and risk their lives, they don't have the power to tell their own story. >> they are doing other
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things. >> that's true, but refugees are telling their stories through cell phones now. they're making photographs, doing their own documentation, so we are beginning to see them tell their own stories in their limited time. people, are doing that through cell phone photography but it also has to do with distribution. we tend to stumbleupon upon the much later after they have been done, but we are seeing those stories start to emerge. >> i have been on the coast of morocco with people trying to lot of them have cell phones and >> that's true, but refugees are telling their stories through cell phones now. they're making photographs, doing their own documentation, so we are beginning to see them tell their own stories in their imited time. people, are doing that through cell phone photography but it also has to do with distribution. we tend to stumbleupon upon the much later after they have been done, but we are seeing those stories start to emerge. >> i have been on the coast of morocco with people trying to cross into spain. they have come to morocco from other parts of west africa, they have nothing. maybe a change of close, but a lot of them have cell phones and know how to replace a simple card and things like that. >> i think social media and the ubiquity of cell phones has made images -- democratizing is not the right word, but there is a
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capacity to seize on narratives hrough the eyes of refugees, even as they travel. there is an example today in the new york times of a syrian piano man, which is a story in which the refugee both as footage that he took during his journey and footage of himself in the home country and upon arrival in berlin, and describes what the journey looks like, while at the same time he laments the construction that he feels confined to offer of being a good refugee and an attempt to flip narratives that have taken hold in germany about the kind of threat represented by syrian refugees. he feels the need to tell the story and get it out. he is performing the story that he wants to tell is a good refugee. one other example of the use of social media, another good example of humanitarian organizations, which is an image that is included here where you ave a very young woman who same time he laments the
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through the eyes of refugees, even as they travel. there is an example today in the one other example of the use of social media, another good example of humanitarian organizations, which is an image that is included here where you have a very young woman who takes a picture for the news agency. very few of our audience here will habitually have seen an image in their circulation, but the head of the emergency team for human rights watch was present at the time and also saw the image that she had taken and retweeted it and then it got retreated around the world. you had human rights watch, which have been attempting to get a message out about the tragedy that was taking place with these drowning children and families, managing to frame a narrative, which the image itself becomes viral and speaks for itself. it is disconnected from the context in which it was launched to social media in the first place. you see how images are being harnessed by those agencies that
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are seeking to act on their behalf, and for a time it shifted the narrative in europe about the arriving tens of thousands of syrians over the summer of 2015. >> this is the terrible photo of the three-year-old wash does run the beach. >> that's right. that image literally is kilometers from where i spent every summer of my childhood. it is an area where european tourists would come all the ime. it has the raven is because of location beyond what we might appreciate in the united states for a european audience. the image is worth noting that it is a broader picture, which is for infant and child deaths in the mediterranean a day now, the summer, which is twice the umber in 2015. >> did not disturb you? every crisis gets an image or to attach to it, it is nevitable.
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it's almost inevitable. -- does itn shoulder isturb you that that photo spr >> i think what's different now is the number of images that we see and the speed at which we see them. you are first the spanish civil war. photograph was the only one of its kind for years, so we had time to meditate on the mages.
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you can choose other conflicts. we have all this time to sit with them and react to them. what i think is fascinating is the speed at which things come out and disappear. >> you can go online and see millions of images of families trying to cross the mediterranean now that was shot last week or last month, but you still get that one image that explodes beyond that and the globe starts talking about it. i think the positives are recognizable because it focuses attention, but i'm am wondering if there any drawbacks to that. >> once an image goes viral, the photographer uses control. it doesn't matter what the intention is. everybody has seen these pictures. there's a photograph of the someone shooting a viet cong suspect in the head. e said it was justified. think the photograph of the irl burned by napalm, that image is is figuratively burned in everybody's memory. the positive part is that it
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served a really important role in shaping public opinion about the war, but the drawback is that the vietnamese do that photograph are forever fixed in the memories of americans as victims. that is a crippling kind of story that is hard for vietnamese people to get out of. that is why you have vietnamese people in vietnam and the united states reiterating this claim. the anonymous not a war, it is a country. they have to keep on saying it because of the west when you say vietnam, everybody thinks war. that's with that photograph does. that's the drawback. >> you see these common tropes. it is images of vulnerability. images of mothers and hildren. images that resonate because of the christian origins of this country. these certain themes constantly come up in these photographs that people respond to.
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>> anything to add because i would like to make a page turn here? > one thing i know, the person who chose to tweet that picture, he experienced was it backlash of people saying there was something on was pornographic about disseminating this image. his response was that it was truly grotesque, the policies that were forcing people into these and the decision on the part of europe to ilitarize. i think that is a place where tension lies. an image has the capacity to fully ship the narrative. it is seared into our minds. in this case, it invited a policy that allowed children to be drowned in the seas around europe, rather than allowing them to cross. a caused a major shift for that moment. in the broader framing, the idea that this is about a framing of vulnerability gets lost at some point.
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instead, it just got this to stand in for the identity of a population and that is when you have the phenomena in -- the henomenon. ully ship the narrative. the crisis that these individuals say is framing the whole society is a crisis, and that is where you end up with he problems we have been discussing. >> i should note that the photos here on the display, to your right immediately when you enter into the exhibit area, and it hits you in the gut. there so much power to it. >> i do think that the photographers in the exhibition and many photographers today try o actively address their own position, of privilege being
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able to speak for these. there's the problematic aspect of them speaking for a position that is not theirs. i think a lot of photographers in this exhibition are trying to also per tray something that we on't see in the media. there are aspects of each of the images that are problematic. > is images being normal >> we can go forward to -- no that's ok. >> tell me where. >> keep going. >> keep going. >> keep going. something like this. a fashion photographer doing his new imagery, taking a very common image that we see in refugee photography of a mother and a child, but here he is doing something fascinating, which is the is referencing a whole history of africans of our photography and self
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portraiture. for the people sit for his image, they are referencing this self portraiture in africa. hey're showing that they are agents of their own creation. hey are individuals. you see these photographers actively trying to do something that we don't commonly see. it is taking quite a challenge himself. he used color in these images. it is not something you see in the subject matter because color also commentates light -- life, ction. we are used to black and white which college-age crisis and drama and horror. >> it's a smile.
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>> right, this seems to be their own portrait, not a portrait hat he made. >> we have a few minutes left in this conversation. we simply have to address the united states in 2000 this election year and the conversation about immigrants and refugees. we have a presidential candidate who has said that he could look into the eyes of the syrian refugee child and say, i'm paraphrasing, you cannot come nto this country, sorry. i mentioned i was at the olitical convention in cleveland, i heard a lot of people talking about refugees being a front for jihadi's coming in. refugees being a way for diseases to come into this country. this is open to anyone. what do you make of the tenure of this conversation about
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past? >> returning to where we began, which is crisis framing and it really helps entrench these narratives. by describing a crisis, you can distort the facts. we could have said 60 million, we could have said 250 million. it would have been plausible at ome level. you can say there is migration for the mexican communities the united states. the crisis is something we all xcept of the best way to understand this and the question is what solutions, come up ith? barriers and exclusion. crisis models are constantly deployed for political strategic purposes and we are witnessing hat.
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there are many shocking things about our current political momentum, but the deployment of crisis language and the depiction of migrants and refugees as viruses resonates with our ordinary politics, unfortunately. the depths of the toxic xenophobia that we see, not only in the united states, but really in the west and perhaps globally. i think we do have this challenge of can we start thinking about global migration? it is worth noting that migration patterns will only increase. we know this now. we can address this by trying to come up with rational policies, r we can do the ad hoc dance that has generated the toxic politics we have seen in the united dates and europe on a continuing basis. i think that would be a very pro-choice. our political moment helps illustrate how bad that can be. >> i think the current climate reminds me that images matter and that are passive consumption of images of immigrants and migrants and refugees as hordes
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of nameless and faceless people. even though we may passively consume the images, they have an impact on a lot of people and that is important for us to support other people showing other representations. on the media they have not had the space or time to show images. you may find a special section f the new york times, but that is the special area. how do we find this space in our everyday media to look more deeply indifferently at these types of issues? >> i go back to history. all those things donald trump is saying that other refugees will o, bring in contamination, the religious that, if you go back historically and look at the chinese, those with the same things that were being said about the chinese in the 19th century, that they would bring evil, they would destroy the american family, they would undermine the american
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orkingman. here were considered antithetical to american culture. i don't believe that because syrians are muslim that they are different than other populations that have come to the u.s. efore. typically, europe and the united states have played a major role in shaping the historical conditions that have produced refugees in the first place. go back far enough in history, the role the u.s. has played in the shaping of the middle east that led to the refugee crisis, but we don't like to think about those kinds of things. the fact that we are in an economic crisis today, if you believe that, the crisis of globalization and neoliberalism, we're putting the plane forth -- the blame for on refugees, when
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refugees are only themselves the product of the same kind of economic decisions that the u.s. and europe have made. >> let me challenge you. does anyone have any sympathy for the argument that a country, no matter how wealthy, can really only sustained so many people coming in over a certain. of time? is there anything to that, in the concern that you let one person in and that guy decides to put on the suicide vest? there is a risk there, no? >> any society may have a threshold of what it can do in terms of resources and its political context. i think the thing to look of years that we need an international framework of responsibility sharing. the current international framework puts away responsibility. they have for us to do circumstances that have led to the unraveling of syria and the united states. if we look at the three largest refugee flows we have seen over the last 10 years, they have been out of syria, iraq, and afghanistan. in order to knowledge and numbers that, one has to come up with a framework of sharing that esponsibility. hat doesn't place the burden
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entirely on the immediate front. had there been a transfer of resources to those countries commensurate with what they were calling for as an example, you probably wouldn't have had the igration that you saw en masse into europe, but until that onward migration occurred, there was no migration crisis. here was no it knowledge meant that there was a crisis in syria until syrians started showing up on the shores of europe. the question is into individual countries have a threshold that the united states. to what extent can lebanon absorb another million because greece and italy need to raise their barriers high. if that is the web we went to live in, there will have to be a massive resource transfer to enable people who survive because these are people who are
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traveling to make a better life, these are people who are traveling to stay alive. o long as the conditions for them to be able to maintain basic life our applicant for the places they can first travel to, they will continue traveling. questions like what is the threshold will not be the eterminants. >> i would like to thank all three of you for this fantastic our of conversation. >> of course, this fabulous exhibition and so many others like this are part of this exhibition. if you haven't seen it, i hope you do walk over there and see it and you come back and you talk to others about these ssues.
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certainly, this is the your to do it in the united states as we face elections in november. i we taking questions and answers? >> good evening. we're taking questions. that concludes our lecture for the evening and brings us to q&a. there will be two people with microphones. if you have a question, please major hand. -- please raise your hand. please tell clearly into the microphone. we have a question here to the right.
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>> i would just like to know why a large segment of the world seems to be exempt from the consideration of all these factors you discuss tonight like sia. how many refugees or immigrants are heading towards asia? are they welcome, are they not? japan i know doesn't take anybody. vietnam, china, south korea. >> saudi arabia if you look to give very wide scope. >> anyone like to tackle that? >> the gulf country makes the claim that they host very large populations of syrians and

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