tv Washington Journal CSPAN November 2, 2016 9:15am-10:01am EDT
it will hear a case and it going to en it is issue an opinion and who is the president has nothing to do with it. i suppose you could imagine a case where the federal government representing the administration in question would try to bring a case to the court and get a decision on something. on prayer ou mention and same-sex marriage were independent of who was the time.ent at the host: next from brenda and she's n tallahassee, florida, republican line, good morning. caller: good morning. s would just like to say there truly is a supreme court and the jesus christ really is supreme judge of that court. want to of people forget that and -- but it is a peopleportant thing that need to remember. to think t is one way about the state of our world, but it is not the way the constitution e
thought about it. host: from oregon, democrats ine, carol, thank you for waiting. go ahead. caller: hi. the news hearing on and i think i was in the car years ago ouple of and heard on the news that the that e court had said political lying was part of free speech s. that true? they haven't gone quite that far, but gone in that direction. the supreme court has said you make it a crime to lie about having received the congressional medal of honor. i think in general the supreme hostile to laws that make lies and political the igns a crime because court is very weary of the government deciding what is true is not. host: adam liptak, the court takes on a lot of weighty issues. they heard a case on cheerleader fashion, the story in the newspapers, could you us what happened?
guest: this was a fun case. issue.copyright the leading manufacturer of uses leading uniforms various stripes and signets and chevrons, i don't know what are.e things to distinguish cheerleading uniforms. a similar tor makes garment. nobody disputes and you can two-dimensional pattern. what happens when you put that garments?dimensional the court was divided. some of them said, you know, the put on a ppens to be three-dimensional garment doesn't withdraw the copyright. said, the point of the pattern is to identify somebody, it's a uniform, like camouflage. is how you continue is a cheerleader. the highlight, by far, the of the argument was when justice breyer and i don't him, he this got into decided to muse a little bit, got philosophical. the clothes on the hanger do nothing, the
clothes on the woman do everything. which point, justice kagan givesthat is so romantic, it a sense these are very able judges and so they are also who free associate on the bench. it was a fun argument. host: from tennessee, anthony, the independent line. you are on with adam liptak. hello. caller: good morning. morning. i want to make a statement and ask a simple question. gays in the ut the bathroom. i'm an independent. used the bly done bathroom for years and nobody has known about it because they go in like a girl and and nobody would really know. the other thing i want to say is and russia. he's the a puppeteer, one sending e-mails and things bout hillary and so forth and so on. he pulls a string and our news up and says t
whatever they want and it goes and on.n and on exist.n't one more thing, that f.b.i. guy that said a mistake, he's too to have been making that mistake. about i know a little bit the supreme court, i'm not an expert on putin or the f.b.i., comment. this host: adam liptak with the "new ork times," joining us to talk about the court and other things. time.s for your keep part of an effort to a section of oil pipeline from being built close to indian land.ation learn why from ellen gilmer when "washington journal" continues.
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first lady necessary paperback, affairs by public available at your favorite book seller and as an e-book. >> on election day, november 8, the nation decides our next resident and which party controls the house and senate. stay with c-span for coverage of presidential race, including campaign stops with hillary clinton, donald trump and their house tes and follow key and senate races with our coverage of their candidate speeches.d c-span, where history unfolds daily. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us now is ellen with energywire, legal reporter for the organization and talking about a days in ing on several north carolina, quite a bit of time in north carolina. something called the dakota pipeline. good morning, sdpifrt foremost. guest: good morning, north be clear. the dakota access pipeline is
pipeline that would ransport some 570,000 gallons per day of -- barrels per day of north dakota to illinois, so it would go from have heard about in recent years and end in illinois. host: several people are certain section of the pipeline. hat is the story there guest: hugely contentious, in north dakota, about 45 miles of bismarck, the pipeline cross the missouri river, a that is a dam, lake of where the standing rock sioux tribe is. he pipeline cross not on reservation, but north of it in to rea the tribe considers be their traditional homeland. them, having the pipeline cross is a threat to that
land.ional home host: how much input did they have in initial planning process as concerns about the location of that section of the pipeline? they had many opportunities to weigh in at a level.level and -- for oil pipeline, most permit suggest done at the state level. meetings, public according to sources in ismarck, who run the meetings, the tribe didn't go to two or last meetings that were year to plan the route of the pipeline. already the federal aspect of it, which is the army engineers have to approve water crossing for the pipeline. had an opportunity to weigh in on the water crossings. he tribe would say that the consultation process that the
army corps did with the tribe was insufficient. they thought that the scope was too narrow. to some extent, they protested that narrow arguably narrow scope by saying, we're not going this, you didn't include us. host: dakota access pipeline, final segment, if you want to give questions and comments, those in the for eastern and central time zone. 202-748-8001, for the mountain pacific time zone. what has been the reaction from protests?ny to these uest: dakota access, owned by energy transfer partners has been pretty quiet, they haven't statements,of public obviously they are against the protests, protesters have work, vand lied some equipment and dakota access, the thinks it went through all of the necessary steps, it reached out to the tribes, it a lot of cultural artifacts along the pipeline
route, tried to cite the pipeline on top of an existing natural gas pipeline to ensure aren't cultural sites there. it thinks that it went through proper steps, why are they giving us so much grief now? to be seen exactly what the company is going to end will ng, they say they continue construction, as far as they are legally allowed for as can. as they host: one local news station has video of conflicts between the authorities, what is the nature of the conflict? thursday,st week, last the conflict was turbulent. in an ers have been encampment to demonstrate the pipeline. ast week they moved to a state highway, really close to the pipeline corridor and kind of barricade and were just kind of sitting there to protect that area. and law enforcement came to
clear the road, state highway, sheriff's department had pulled in all of these law from other officers jurisdictions, there was a bit of standoff several hours dids not want to move, law enforcement, maybe 200 of trying to push tro testers to move. t one point, a protester allegedly fired a gun. the law enforcement officers spray, rubber bullets, some high-pitched sound evices, things like that to disburse the crowd. t this point, things are relatively calm. it was heat theed thursday. host: being so close to native land, does the interior department have to sign off on the plans? was theo, actually this only federal jurisdiction for this project came with the army orps of engineers, which is part of the army. host: part of the design process and they were at least trying to reach out to the reservation
about at least get input? guest: the army corps focuses on water crossings. oil pipelines don't have a lot while they versight are being planned. they do once they are in the round, but not while being planned so much. so the army corps looks at water and said, that is what the army corps does, dams and levees and what not. looked at water crossings to say, does this water crossing, safety and et environmental standards? they did consult with a tribe on issues related to that water crossing. are there cultural sites there? the army corps didn't look at the lengths of the pipeline to comprehensive impact? that is the point of contention, hether they should look at that. host: first call from joan, in rochester, minnesota, you are on with our guest, ellen gilmer of
energywire. caller: hi. about this earing ipeline over 10 years ago on a radio program sponsored by alex the this, pipeline was in works, i've also read that the south of north dakota and dakota have slowly shrunken the reservation and have taken back some of the lands the were actually given to native americans and i do not native that the mericans plight was ever, ever considered by oil companies and it is an abomination how the native american people have been treated, as if they didn't bring on every force of the county with weapons and strip
searching women. be proud of in what is go og? host: thank you, joan. people share f your perspective, joan. you are right, the sioux land shrunk, as has every tribe's and in the past 100 to 200 years, in particular the great sioux nation, the standing rock a part of had just this broad swath of land 1800s.ed to it in the later in the 1800s, congress these various reservations, including standing rock reservation and their land dramatically. so the question of then how do treat this now private land hat used to be their homeland, theiran cest ral homeland with artifacts and history, how do we now given that at this point, farmers and ranchers have ownd and worked the land
for generations, the two sides conflict and the legal system today is still kind of grappling with how to treat fairly.y host: emma from stockton, california, you are next, hello. good morning. i'm calling because i thought as treaties this was man, you o be the know, as promised in the or the government, basically it was their land, it got oilpsyd and now you ompanies that seem to override the integrity of the treaty. or could go to court they maintain their tribal land? mean, this is theirs, any way hey can do this, fight this in court? guest: great question n. fact, they are in court doing what you suggest. they are first of all, noting
the treaties you mentioned two the 1800s.reaties in and they are pointing to those supposed tothis was be our land. an act of congress did switch the boundaries in the late 1800s, very clearly and put them n a smaller swath of land, but they have taken this to court, they are challenging the treaty and they are challenging the army corps process of for projects like this, permitting water crossings. should the army corps look at the length of the pipeline? focus the army corps just on water crossings themselves? they have taken that to court. d.c., and court in that case is moving forward. to deral judge declined freeze construction in the meantime, but he is still of the ing the merits case and that is expected to play out through this year and next ly into beginning of year. host: a story in the paper today, one online fundraiser
1.2 million raise for the legal defense, there is lot of online effort on this front, as well, can you tell us about it? guest: sure, dakota access pipe battle has blown up on social media. ple, or yes no dap dap ple, are frequently used country, people weighing in on this. just the other day, you may have facebook people on checking in to the location of standing rock sioux reservation. weren't, most of them, probably weren't there, they one as symbol n, of solidarity with the tribe and law to try to keep enforcement from tracking everybody in the camp, which law enforcement said they weren't doing anyway. it was an attempt to make sure all body in the camp and the protesters had this backing of people on social media on side. host: william is in new york,
william, you are on next with our guest. ahead. caller: hi. of the dering one rationales for stopping the ipeline is that everything is sacred. the air is sacred. hello. host: you are on, go ahead. caller: the air is sacred, the is sacred, the mountains are sacred. they were calling themselves protectors. i'm asking what exactly isn't sacred? to comment, a lot of down.from canada coming they really don't seem to care miles of square alberta are being plowed up to extract tar sand. thinking, follow the money, you know. people are going to get paid off you won't hear much about this problem after a few news cycles. guest: well, certainly before,
before the united states was olonized by europeans, tribes, they had huge plots of the country, whole country was land.e when you say what isn't sacred, good question. legal something that experts and policy experts and decision-makers are trying to handle that.w to at this point, it seems like the system they have sort of settled on is well, whenever we're looking at a project that would through ancestral lands the on, let's nger lives consult with the tribe and bring them to the table on basis and get n their input. now the debate seems to be, is working?cess does it need to be improved? are tribes really helping to happens to a project or are they just kind of getting notification that it is happening? something that the obama
administration has recently done that is it dress opened up a new broad onsultation, with all of the federally recognized tribes to having out are tribes enough voice in infrastructure planning generally. pipeline, transmission lines, of thing. that process that new consultation process is going on now. host: is the obama administration specifically comment on dakota access? actually just last night, president obama made comments about dakota access. said that he's looking and watching the protest closely, at the project, the army corps is thinking maybe there is reroute this and he suggested that they're going to keep an eye on things for the couple of weeks and see if they can reach some sort of resolution. obama said that to him it is very important to lands and tribal tribal history and culture, so i
his that is something administration is really looking closely at. the most direct comment he's made on the happens. we'll see what host: this is john hogan, talked 20, saying he with secretary darcy, completed n can be and life can return to normal for farmers and ranchers in the and for law enforcement, hile working hard to protect life -- pressing with the army corps of engineer to make a determining the course of the pipeline while pushing enforce toment keep peace on the ground. can they influence this, as well? to some extent, certainly he public pressure is prodding the obama administration and it is true that the administration of sitting and reviewing decisionmaking process
nd thinking about this water crossing and whether it should be permitted and the same time, state te officials and law enforcement have been the ones scrambling to respond to uproar, so the senator necessary north dakota have been very vocal about it. it is unclear whether they are at ly going to have a say the end of the day. it's certainly possible. host: ellen gilmer, legal for energywire joining to talk about the dakota access pipeline process. pennsylvania. hi there. caller: hi. 'm just really outraged by the treatment of the native americans as opposed to those ho occupy the refuge in oregon or washington, whatever, but this is not just the heritage of their water, it's their life. these people were put on called ation camps reservati reservations and now we're going as we ued on that, too,
have -- not honored any of the reaties, this is just outrageous. guest: that is a good point about the water. just e right, it is not about history and ancestral the it would cross missouri river, just upstream of where the tribe gets its water there were any issue with the pipeline, it could affect the standing rock sioux tribe directly, not just in terms of history. good point to make. that is another thing in the they brought up, they have said, you haven't pipeline is this going to be safe, so very concerned about that. the pipeline is total and what states does it run through? guest: about 1200 miles, starts in north dakota and runs through iowa and end necessary illinois. host: hear from john, eberton, oregon. good morning. caller: good morning. say, i've been
following the events for the piggybackinghs and on the other caller, i was on ened by what i saw thursday, with the mace, the pepper guns. ou know, the concussion grenades. i don't condone violence on any ide, but to me this, is more than merely an economic or and when struggle you're talking about the oil, isn't this ilmer, fracked oil? being usedprocess is to extract it? guest: absolutely. the oil is coming from the bachen shale, in western north dakota and hydraulic fracturing drilling have been big technological advance helped them get to the left-hand. an oil boom until recently. we are talked about fracked oil. is up next, hi.
caller: hi. i just had a quick comment on, i lived here and the original design for the pipeline was bismarck, north dakota, enclaf and uburban it was determined it was too many people.o so it was moved north of the and i guess i have a problem with that if it is not good enough for the suburbs, why done to the native community here? i just don't agree. you.k guest: that is true. the route was moved. the route has been moved dozens of times, maybe hundreds of times, just little tweaks along the way, that was a dramatic crossing the river north of bismarck to crossing the river down by the reservation. determined d, they that it was just too heavily area, so the pipeline like that, they try to go through less populated areas, in this case, that happened to by by the standing rock sioux
try. center, california, joe is up next. joe, good morning. morning. hey, i think it is another example of what our government our native peoples. you know, they don't respect our you know, they have and they are s doing whatever theyment. i live on an indian reservation california and we're blessed with, you know, the have s that the people voted to help us maintain our -- own people, give excel in society
out.elp us and you know, we have white ourle that have infiltrated reservation and are trying to steal our identity and what they are doing up there is just so you know. guest: you're right, it's bit of d quite a attention from tribes all over the country. i'm sure some peep frel your in southern california have been up to the protest. tribal ttracted advocates from southwestern ribes, western tribes, pacific northwest, cherokee, from the east, people from all over, as tribes from other parts of the world have chimed in on they think they have ono seen a pattern of abuses indian country and they want to ee it stopped and want to show solidarity with standing rock n.
act, these protests may be the biggest gathering of tribal nations in the u.s. for certainly, maybe for a couple hundred years. host: got celebrity attention too. week, guest: gotten quite a bit. mark russello, shealine woodley has couple of times, have beenm all around weighing in on this. the reverend jesse jackson, al gore, this has really attracted a lot of attention. ost: our guest is legal reporter for publication energywire. what is that? uest: energywire, we cover policy issues here in d.c., around the country and the world. news, we t of ene cover environmental issues and the y issues all across country. host: the website for that is
eu.net -- you can see guests other on the topic and top topics. ellen gilmer. im is up next, north dakota, thanks for holding on, go ahead, you are on with our guest. pedro? how are you, host: fine, go ahead. caller: i want to say, i will devil's advocate since i'm devil.-eyed i came out, on a regular basis, i worked in the bakken oil field the boom was really going. am i on the air? host: you are on, go ahead. out there in ed wild west country. it was tough and people living cars, people of all races. called last night before the sugar beet harvest. i worked there twice now and lakotah ith a lot of sioux indians that come over. want to put thing necessary perspective there is no such thing as a native american or ative born, but american indians came across the frozen
land bridge the last close of ice age. they took the land from many peep they'll might have been mountain builders exterminated by the cherokee nation. nations, we all do. history raise and fall with history of nations. warred on each and other enslaved each other and killed before the white man or spaniard showed up, let's get that straight. i'm tired of hearing, one guy sacred land. land is what you hold on to. in my land back in pennsylvania, i consider that my land, my people were buried there going back to the revolution. i went deer hunting and that is my land, i being taken from me by third world migration. why ties to the last point, do we have people who don't want to diligently go after oil, the party, democrat party is importing tens of millions of
population of us 435 million people within decade? first i'll look at the point in particular, you are right, prehistoric people who tribes we before the eventually migrated to other places. our legal ow is, system and policy makers are seeing how do we make this fair the people who came later. how do we make this good for the tribes and ranchers and farmers and people who work in the oil fields? make sure everyone has had a chance to voice their opinions? sacred land and what is not, to the tribes, areas of certain nature that to them is like a church. or synagogue, temple tochlt is how they view it.
florida, cynthia, hi. caller: good morning. legal questions for the young lady. ne is, eminent domain, which i have experienced down here. not only in the dakotas, but pipeline is being built that the companies are lands of oing through farmers and ranchers and takeing the pipes in ting and they have no recourse ecause eminent domain was claimed. i want to know if that is true. i've been reading all about it. and i went through this have gone through it and it's happened to me and i lost my because the state, it wasn't oil companies or dakotas running the show
can take away the land. guest: definitely eminent domain something that has played a role in this pipeline and in pretty much every other pipeline. what happens is a company wants is uild a pipeline and it for oil that we're all using, so utility andidered a most states and also the federal allow ent have laws that utilities to use eminent domain o get the land necessary to build that project that is going broader ly serve a purpose. that -- first, go and try to negotiate with the usually, and then use eminent domain as needed. per se,'t take the land they get right-of-way on the and, they build a pipeline, they reclaim the top of the and, put it back to the way it was before.
so to some farmers, ranchers, that is d owners, enough. to others, it's not because maybe that pipeline is right to build a anted house or something. o there are a lot of conflicts that come with it, that is how it comes about. host: to give you sense of nature of the attention this is getting. a cnn story at new york grand shut down from protesters over this. guest: wow, i hadn't heard that protests have been all over. last week a group of protesters arched to hillary clinton's campaign headquarter necessary new york, to make their voices protesters have been who have gone to banks across the country in north dakota, oregon, all throughout because certain banks are helping to finance this project. so the protesters are as you said, not just in north dakota, out and fanned attracted people in all different states. ost: kathy from oak creek, colorado, hello.
hello. i've been following the access sacrede more through the stone camp online media. every media ed outlet wonder whying they are thecovering it, i've called president and the banks. i'm beyond heartbroken. crying when i call about it. he news media even now isn't, they're not say whatting is really happening there. making the protectors out to be some sort of vicious your caller, ias believe from pennsylvania said, he difference in this and what has happened with the bundy's threatening 's are violence again over public land, this is. own land like it dumbfounds me, breaks my don't ust to see that we care, oil seems to be more
important than the indian's feel burial grounds. i plan ongoing up there, i'm aking a truck and a bunch of winter clotheing and my daughter and her friends are going up to yerts. i want everyone to understand, they're not going to quit. these people have been brutalized forever and they're not going to quit. land.is their sacred as the other lady, i'm not sure, arlington, cemetery, what we would do if somebody wanted to run a pipeline through that? you, caller. guest: the media attention on he protests and the project generally has been, you know, ebbed and flowed, part because is an election season and unfortunately stories have otten lost in the election noise, but certainly there are media outlets cover thanksgiving been from and have the start and you know, we're trying to do the best we can to this.l the information on you mentioned sacred stone camp
media. say that the protesters on the ground are doing really of using social media to get their message out, you are not alone getting your that way.n host: what is sacred stone camp? where protesters have camped for months. hey started in springtime, but ramped up around august. 1000 to 5000 people, depending time, are there camp nothing solidarity and smaller groups of them go sxout do actions where they try to stop construction. host: from missouri, this is richard. hello. caller: good morning. this is kind of a big deal up there, but we got the whole state of oklahoma over here that and we tookerritory it away from all the -- in we took those. indian burial
ground, i imagine anywhere an ndian died, they had to bury them there, didn't have to haul them off to bury them. host: thanks. you are right that this is not -- north dakota is not where these e conflicts are happening. here are tribal conflicts with other jurisdictions, state government, county government, federal government all over the country. a lot of that stems from the fact at one point in time, their erritory was essentially at least for the sioux, wherever he buffalo roamed, it was a broad territory and it is complicated to figure out how to now. things fair that is an issue that will keep playing out, we're not going to ave an end to the conflicts with any one policy decision. host: as far as the pipeline, how does e sflult this, what is the ending or result?e guest: a number of things could happen. the obama administration could this final easement, the
last piece to finish the pipeline could be finished, the protests could escalate again, but ultimately not be able to stop construction and the pipeline go into service. the obama administration could not grant the easement, in that case, the company, dakota access, would have to pay a lot a new routegure out and figure out place where people would be okay with it crossing the missouri river. has to cross the river to get to illinois, to get to south illinois. iowa and so that will be a big project need to reroute it. if they need to reroute it, no of oppositionkind they will face with a future proposal now that the project is eye.he public host: from colorado, here is mike. hi. caller: morning. i'm just calling in, this is a what they n of the used to call manifest destiny
xhchlt in, wipe out the buffalo herd, starve out the indian opulation, now let's run a pipeline that is gonna leak across the water supply. their ability to grow crops and water animals and use for themselves and second of all, this pipeline is illinois. to stop in it is going to continue on down for export. it is not going to stay in the united states. guest: a lot of suggestedtalists have this oil is destined to be exported, which they are wantrned about, they don't to see a lot more oil and gas united states,he but a lot of the tribal dvocates have brought up, like you said, idea of manifest destiny and a continuation of that. hand, policy makers would and gas companies say we are still using these
esources for the time being, whether we transport oil, we trucks, ansport oil on transport oil on trains and on ipeline fist we are going to transport it, pipelines are generally seen as the safer way it.o host: from bismarck, north there. hi caller: yes, hi. host: go ahead. on?er: i'm host: you are on, go ahead. caller: yeah. my issue is that once, hey have done a lot of work in retrieving the oil with this fracking and horizontal drilling. my concern is, once they get it ground, when it gets to that point, i think there is an of carelessness wrshgs pollute the soil, the
flares and ir, with the radio active material that just dumped. it just seems to be an element above ground, it the heck with it, we'll do whatever we want to do. there is certainly a lot of concern about safety and oil onmental safety in the and gas industry, like you said, on the production side and also side.nsport and that is something states updating regulations to deal with, upping oversight enforce toment deal with. people in the industry say there actors, ctors and good but there are safety considerations that to some states are still learning the best ways to regulate. host: richfield, connecticut, dawn, good morning. go ahead, you are on. caller: good morning, i have a ellen. question for when i drove across country
to an ethnicnvited indian group that for rain dance to protest mineral rights that underneath xcavated their land, that was explained not , their treaties did necessarily protect the lands underneath a certain depth and that all treaties across the nited states, in the indian tribes had to fight this. i'm wondering if that is true if you could enlighten me on that point? guest: sure. land is really complicated and there are different setups that play across the country. typically beneath the eservation, mineral rights are administered by the bureau of indian affairs and bureau of so company ent and consist bid on rights. surface owners, tribes or whomever lives there
to weigh in. host: dakota access, what is the for? thing to watch out guest: next, any further escalation in the protest, the construction is continuing and gets closer and closer to the missouri river, the moresters will be more and concerned. it cannot cross the river until administration issues that final easement and like we've talked about, it is unclear whether that will happen. so watch out for escalation in for st and watch out whether that easement will happen. host: our guest writings can be website eeu.net/ew, ellen gilmer with energywire. ots of events going on today, go to c-span.org, for more information thanks for watching today.ogram another edition comes your way at 7 a.m. we'll be right back.