tv Former Senator Tom Harkin Delivers Remarks on Childhood Obesity CSPAN November 25, 2016 10:22pm-11:13pm EST
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>> former senator tom harkin talked about nutrition and food marketing in the contributor factor to the problem of childhood obesity. senator harkin represented iowa for 30 years. los event was cohosted in angeles by ucla and harvard university. it is 45 minutes. michael: ok. if i could have your attention, please. thank you, everyone. i know you are enjoying your neighbors' company as we eat our lunch. what i would like to do now is introduce our keynote speaker for lunch, and when he is done, we will have a few more minutes for you to converse and introduce yourself to your neighbors and your tables. we are very honored to have former senator tom harkin with us today as our keynote speaker.
i got to know senator harkin when i was on the law faculty in arkansas many, many years ago, when i first got involved in food and agriculture law and have always appreciated his support since then. he serves on our board -- our outside advisory board for our program, and one of the reasons of what drew him to our board and program was not necessarily our relationship, or my good looks. it was because he has grandchildren here in los angeles, and i have learned that connection usually draws people in. but even though i do not know that his biography needs to be read -- it is in your program -- i do want to highlight a few things. first of all, senator harkin has a very long record of public
service, from congress and the state of iowa, to the senate, starting in 1990. he retired from the senate in january 2015. his ability, although it is not listed in his biography -- i will state it -- his ability to be a bipartisan advocate to cross party lines is sorely missed in washington these days. senator harkin is well known for his work with the american disabilities act. in addition to his great work in that area, he has also had a great track record with respect to health and food, and children. following the death of senator ted kennedy, senator harkin, in 2009, became the chairman of the labor and pensions committee, and has made a real trailblazer in combating obesity, having led the efforts to require school districts participating in the
national school lunch program to establish school wellness policies. other plans and efforts have led to the 2010 child nutrition bill, and the healthy hunger-free kids act. he has also worked closely with the ftc over the years, which was discussed in our previous panel, and has commissioned reports and studies, and has pressed the industry to adopt uniform, system-wide, age-appropriate guidelines for food marketing to children. as you can probably tell, senator harkin is a well of information and is a walking historian when it comes to these issues. there is no one that knows the politics, and that was referenced in both panels -- the politics involved in food policy and food law. there is no one that knows the
politics of food policy and health than senator harkin. again, it is very gracious of him to be here with us and to share with us not only the history, but his vision moving forward, which is very important. if you know senator harkin, he is about walking the talk not , just talking. he is a wonderful center that harkens his library in des moines, iowa, at drake university. i was there a few weeks ago. i met with his staff. i am impressed with their vision and what they are trying to accomplish. it was a delight to visit with them. he is still looking ahead, looking forward, looking at health and wellness in schools, the workplace, and all the activities he is involved in. he may be retired, but he is not really retired. senator harkin, on behalf of this audience and your grandchildren, we are happy to have you here today, and we invite you to come up to the podium. [applause]
sen. harkin: thank you very much, michael. let me just reinterpret what he said. he said that i am a walking historian on this. what that really means is, he is an old guy. but thank you for that kind introduction and for your many years of leadership here at this program at ucla. stuart want to thank resnick and lynda resnick for your great and ross in establishing this program -- great generosity in establishing this program at ucla, and even beyond that, what i know of you personally, and lynda, your support for health and wellness in all of its capacities and all of its venues around the country. so, stuart resnick, thank you
very much for your generosity. [applause] sen. harkin: it is an honor to be here with so many people that i do admire, like stewart, michael, and kelly brownell, who i have followed for so many years. his leadership, back when we were always trying to do things and calling upon him for his expertise. of course, michael jacobson with the center for science and the public interest -- again, always on the cutting edge. always giving good guidance and direction on how to go. jacob, also with harvard, and marlene schwartz -- well, i shouldn't -- there are so many people i have admired for so long and still do for all the great work that you do, and thanks for asking me to be part of this program today. so, i will try to talk for just a few minutes, but like an historian, i tend to get
sidetracked and get off onto little stories like this. let me just start by saying this -- america is in the grips of a massive child abuse scandal. america is in the grips of a massive child abuse scandal threatening the future of millions of unsuspecting gains -- kids. every day, these perpetrators come right into our homes and our schools. as we now know, they are on iphones, social media, the internet. they are talking directly to children, and they are tempting them into risky behavior, threatening their future, and parents are all but helpless to stop it. child abuse?
well, what else do you call it when the junk food industry spends $12 billion bombarding kids with tens of thousands of ads each year from everything from monster thick burgers with 1420 calories and 107 grams of fat, to 20 ounce pepsi and coke? feeding and epidemic of childhood obesity. what else do you call it when a beast children as young as 10 are diagnosed with type two -- young as 10en as are diagnosed with type two diabetes which previously had an onset age of about 40? well, that's what i call it, child abuse. it is estimated that children ages six to 11 -- you know these figures, average 28 hours a week watching tv.
they are exposed to up to as many as 20,000 ads per year and as many as 21 fast food ads each day. the center for disease and control and prevention -- it used to be called the center for disease control, and in 1990, i added prevention, so now it is the center for disease control and prevention. [applause] sen. harkin: just an aside. [laughter] sen. harkin: anyway, they said obese children are twice what it was just 30 years ago. less than 1% of kids meals combinations at restaurants meet international standards. -- nutritional standards. less than 1%, and just 3% meets
-- meet the industry's own -- and you heard about this earlier -- the children's food and beverage advertising initiative -- just 3% meets their own standards, and are touted kids live well nutrition standards. 3% in restaurants. now, you can get all of this from the rudd center, who was here earlier, with marlene schwartz, who is here, founded by dr. brownell. you can get all of the information from the rudd center. fast food marketing via social media and mobile devices is growing exponentially, we have heard that, too, including spanish-language aimed at hispanic youth. i will have more to say about that. a lot has been said about self-regulation -- we have to go to the industry and get self-regulation. well, the same thing i talked
about, the children's food and beverage advertising initiative of 2007 -- just get this, one aspect of it, four large candy companies -- mars, hershey, kraft andstle -- nestle pledged they would not advertise to children, however there was a 45% increase in 2011 compared to 2007 he fortis went -- before this went into effect, before it was adopted. how is that possible? exposed toen are candy ads that go to a general audience but that kids watch. so sure, they agreed not to aim their ads at kids, but they increased -- not quite doubled, but close to doubled the amount
of ads they were running on candy on programs they know kids are watching along with their family. again, when people talk about self-regulation, there is another thing called caru -- it has been a dismal failure. there is no teeth. there is nothing they can do, and it has just been failure. other countries -- australia, european union, canada, they try to regulate through voluntary efforts also, and quite frankly, most of them have failed miserably. interestingly enough, in my research, the two most extreme controls on advertising to children regarding food was in norway and quebec. i look at that and thought how do they do that? well, they do not have a
constitution to worry about like we do in the united states. what they have done is they have removed the legal right to advertise to all children under the age of 12. there is no legal right to do that in those countries. and we know the american psychological association -- we know that young children, and cut and dice the different ages, 12, 10, 14 -- young children are more likely to accept ads as truthful, unbiased, and as we know, the air they are, the more difficulty they have separating commercials from regular programs. again, we have very few to zero regulations right now basically in the united states. i will cover a couple of those. i mentioned caru -- the children's advertising review unit established in 1974. we tried to do stuff with them all the time i was in the house -- the 1970's, the 1980's, the 1990's -- nothing.
we would get nothing done with them whatsoever. now, again, i know we are here talking about food, but i think about it in terms of a broader health policy. i have made this statement many times in the past -- in america it is easy to be unhealthy, and hard to be healthy. easy to be unhealthy, hard to be healthy. that should be changed around. it should be easy to be healthy, and harder to be unhealthy. that comes down to all kinds of things. we are building subdivisions without sidewalks, so kids cannot go outside and walk to school. we have elementary schools being built in america today without a playground. bike and pedestrian lanes -- i tried to get this done on a highway bill years ago to say if you have any federal money for streets, roads -- things like that, bridges -- you had to incorporate -- i did not say you had to do it, i just said you had to incorporate in the design
a bike and walking cap lane -- path lane alongside that road. i lost. we still do not have it, but in europe they do. you build a bridge in europe, it has to have a bike path lane or new roads, but not yet in america. just, again, the things that, again, go to providing for exercise and people to be out. we just don't do that in america, and we need to have this as part of our planning process, so that people can actually get out and walk, bike, not be afraid of getting run over and hit and killed. one history thing i wanted to go over because it has been brought up here, and that is the federal trade commission. i was there when all of this happened as history. in the 1970's, there were three
entities -- there was the action for children's television, michael jacobson -- the center for science and public interest, and consumers union, all petitioned the federal trade commission to act on behalf of children's advertising -- to do something about children's advertising. the commissioner of the fda also weighed in on this, and petitioned the ftc to do something about it. michael purchased was the head of the ftc at the time. you could read his book about the revolt against regulation that he published later on, but here is what happened. the federal trade commission put out a notice -- i do not have the exact date here, but it was right around 1977, the b 1976. -- maybe 1976. michael jacobson -- maybe he
knows. maybe 1978. ok. put out a notice of proposed regulations on regulating advertising to children, and it would ban all tv ads to an audience with significant portions of children -- ban tv ads for food products posing serious dental health, and for sugar products not included in the ban to be balanced by health disclosures funded by the advertisers. i remember this very well, and boy, congress went nuts. the industry went nuts. that is the first time i ever heard the phrase "nanny state." all these speeches on the floor of the house, senators --
government is going to take away parental rights, take the rights away from parents, and give it to this nanny state, and all kinds of ridiculous things like that came out. in fact, in 1978 it became a big issue in the 1978 campaign. i know. i was running for reelection. i almost got my head handed to me because i came out in favor of this, doing something about advertising to kids. well, i won the election, obviously, but i remember being labeled as being in support of the nanny state at that time. so, it became a big issue. a lot of people lost elections in 1978 because of that. well, for a lot of reasons -- but that played a big role. people got so scared that when the new congress came in in 1979, they began to work and have hearings on these proposed regulations -- hearings that
brought in all the industry, and stuff, and it just became overwhelming. finally, the congress, in 1980, passed a law. ftc improvements act. congress caved. here is what it said, in essence. "the ftc shall not have any authority to promulgate any will -- rule in this proceeding or any subsequent proceedings dealing with children on the basis of a determination by the commission that such advertising constitutes an unfair act or practice in or affecting commerce." now, i know some people talked about this earlier. there are basically two prongs
the ftc uses in its regulation of advertising -- one prong is deceptive, one prong is unfair. ok. since 1980, the ftc has had more authority to regulate advertising to you than to your kids and grandkids. let me repeat that. the ftc has more authority to regulate advertising to adults than it does to kids. now, you tell me that makes sense. they stripped it. the only problem they can use is deceptive. they can use deceptive or unfair. unfair has different prongs on it, too, but they can use deceptive and unfair on adults, but only deceptive on kids, and as people have pointed out many times, an ad can be truthful when it is applied to kids, but grossly unfair because kids cannot understand the
difference. so it is just unfair to be able to do this kind of advertising to kids, but we have had to live with that ever since. in fact, it got so bad that congress defunded the ftc for some time -- took away its authority for 10 or 12 years before it came back -- before we were able to get the reauthorization and the funding back for the ftc. now, why did i tell you all of this? because i have had in my hearings in the past, and if i still had a lot of staff, i could have had slides here, but you look, if you graph, beginning around 1980, 1981, the increase in obesity in children, and you also look at what happened in our schools, because the industry took this as a green light. it started at that time.
there was a little bit before, but not much -- 1980, 81, you start to see vending machines in all of our schools, up and down hallways. you saw more and more companies making exclusive rights with schools -- coke, pepsi -- things like that. they made exclusive contracts with them. i remember once, 25, 30 years ago, i visited an elementary school, and it was kids in kindergarten, first grade, sitting on coke chairs -- coca-cola chairs -- little chairs, red and white with coca-cola on them. this is what the kids sat on every day. you charge that, and you will see this huge increase in junk
food in schools, and you see the increase for advertisements for kids in the 1980's, and you graph the increase in obesity, and they just track. it is eerie how they track going up in the 1980's. well, in the 1990's, some of us tried to get soft drinks taken out of schools. we tried several times, but came to nothing on farm bills and different things like this. we just could not get it done. so, i thought, well, maybe there is something else we can do. i had a brief -- i had two brief shining moments -- a brief moment in 2001 and 2002 where i became chairman of the senate ag committee. well, i won't get into that --
jim jeffers left the republican party became a democrat so i became chairman just when they were doing a farm bill. so, i thought maybe i can try something here. so, you make your deals, right? there was a lot in the farm bill i did not like. i had to swallow it. i had a republican house counterpart, and we only have one vote in the senate -- a democratic vote, so i thought well, i will try something. maybe i will get something. what i got -- i started something called the fresh fruit and vegetable program -- the fresh fruit and vegetable snack program. here is what i did -- i took $5 million, and we started a pilot program with four states -- iowa, michigan, ohio, and indiana with 100 schools -- 25 schools in a state, and with $5 million, to just try to see what would happen if you gave free fresh fruits and vegetables to
kids. what would happen? i had been fed up before about, well, you know, we have the vending machines in schools and kids could get an apple. kids have to put a dollar and a vending machine and get an apple, but they could buy candy? of course not. what would happen if you give them free fresh fruits and vegetables? so, i got that in. 2002. the first year was 2003, then 2004. we had a few schools in 2003, then 2004 and 2005, and got it up. i have to tell you, the administration -- i lost my chairmanship in 2002, and now i am back in the minority. they kept coming after and try to destroy the program, but i had my appropriations committee, i made my deals, and we kept it going.
here is what we found -- of the 100 schools that came into the program, not one wanted to drop out. they loved it. so, thad cochran, a senator from mississippi came to me and said he heard about this and said how can you get it for mississippi? i said we could get it for mississippi. arlen specter wanted it for pennsylvania, so by 2006 we brought some more schools in -- some more states, got them more money, found out it was working really well. so then, as fate would have it, by 2008 i became chairman again of the ag committee. came back again. now i had a democratic house as well as a senate to work with, so we took the fresh fruit and vegetable program and expanded it. we expanded it nationally, so today, it is in all 50 states and our territories, and it is
at about $175 million a year. we changed somewhat. we learned in the past that high schools were not that good, so we limited it only two elementary schools, and it may give a preference for schools that have -- and then we give a preference for schools that have a portion of high and reduced meals in that school. -- free and reduced meals. it has now been absorbed in our schools. of course, i am going to keep pushing for more funding of it, but again, at least it is out there, and kids are getting fresh fruits and vegetables. i will have more to say about that in a second in terms of problems. in 2004, i was able to put into the school nutrition program, it was called school wellness policies. somebody mentioned that.
here's the other thing -- every school that he gets federal money for school lunch program has to develop a school wellness program. we did not say what it had to be -- we just said do it, go out, and get these policies. they had to have it done by 2006. they had two years to develop a wellness policy, and do it on the local level. well, somewhere hit or miss. -- some were hit or miss. some were better than others, obviously. at least they had to start thinking about it. then, in 2010, when we have a healthy and hunger free kids act passed, i was to put new provisions in there on the wellness policies, and in 2014, there was a proposed rule. in 2016, just this june, the final rule went into effect. all local education agencies must comply with this rule by june 30 of next year, and what is good about it is there must
be an evaluation done every three years -- how they are doing compared to the model -- the model wellness policy that has been developed. how are they doing compared to that? i would say to all of you, if you are thinking about what we need to do in the future, we have to keep pressure on his -- these local school districts to comply with the law, and every three years to continue to evaluate this. i just wrote down here another , i said, another reason we need hillary for our next president. [laughter] [applause] sen. harkin: anyway -- i mentioned the assault on the fresh fruit and vegetable program. got, it drives me nuts. i tried all this time -- fresh fruits and vegetables, and i have been to the schools and see these kids eat these -- i have been to schools where third, fourth, fifth graders, have never eaten a fresh pear.
did not even know what the hell it was. time i went to elementary school in ohio, and they were having kiwifruit. i did not know much about kiwifruit. i tried once. i bought some kiwifruit. god, they were terrible to peel. just awful. i thought, this is ridiculous, not worth it. i'm standing there, and these gradeschool kids are at their desk, and they have gotten their fresh fruit, and they all have a kiwifruit, and a third greater taught me how to eat kiwifruit. she had a plastic spoon, a paper plate. she took her spoon, and smashed it right in the middle, scooped it.ut and ate
i said that is the way you're supposed to do it? here i have been trying to peel those things. i have seen kids, even some rural areas of iowa -- strawberry, first strawberry season is before they get out of school in the spring. they bring strawberries in. there is not a strawberry left by 10:00 a.m. in the morning. kids love it. schools have done a great thing. so, what am i frustrated about? ever since i started this darn program, the dried fruit and canned fruit people have wanted to get in the program. i have been successful in stopping them except until the last time. in 2014 -- no, it was 2012, 2012, 2013. i saw i was going to lose this. i was going to lose it.
so, i maneuvered a pilot program. so, michael, there is a pilot program now that just finished, and we are waiting for evaluations, and i hope that secretary villsack will do a good job on this. i trust that he will. we allowed some school districts to use canned, frozen, dried fruit as a pilot program, 2014 and 2015. some of these cans of fruit are just loaded with sugar, and people said well, i will not mention names -- it happened to be a congressman from california, by the way, said if said if they could eat grapes, they could eat raisins. i said no, wait a minute. that is not right. if a kid eats eight, 10, or 12 raisins, that's ok.
does a kid eat eight or 10 raisins? no, they eat a box of them, 30 or 40, and it is concentrated sugar. anyway, all i can tell you is they have been trying to get in on the program for a long time. i hope we can get out and keep it fresh fruits and vegetables. that is just how they tried to get in on some of these things. then we started the farm to school program under tom vilsack, great secretary of agriculture. in 2013 and 2014, school districts nationwide purchased over 800 million dollars from local farmers and fishermen, and this was 105% over what they had done the year before. let me mention a couple of other things, and i will close, both good and bad. good, soda taxes. maybe we're finally going to get soda taxes. i know berkeley, california, had done this before, if i'm not mistaken.
now, this year, it is on the ballot in several places, and in june, the philadelphia city council passed a soda tax -- $.15 per ounce on their sodas. it goes into effect on the first of january -- wouldn't you know it, the beverage companies have filed suit -- just last month filed suit against them in philadelphia. but this is now picking up a lot of steam in different parts of the country, so i am hopeful that very soon we will see this big thing turned, and more and more jurisdictions are going to have soda taxes, and i hope that it passes. i think it is on the ballot in san francisco, they tell me, and oakland. this year, right -- i will keep my fingers crossed. so some worrisome things -- national parks. did you know there is an effort underway in the national park service, because they are so hurting for money, that now there is a proposal in the national park service to go out and get corporate money to come into national parks, and there is, as you know, right now there
is a requirement that parks must remain free of commercialization. they want to do away with that. they want to start giving companies naming rights. i just went to yosemite for the first time in my life this summer. i can just see it there, brought to you by mcdonald's on yosemite falls. these are bizarre things, but that is what they are doing -- that is what they are trying to do. so, you have to be cautious about that, too, because they are so hurting for money. the other thing, you saw the ad for teachers night. mcdonald's right now, in various places around the country are going and getting teachers and school administrators to put on their branded things for mcdonald's, and they go behind the counter on an evening.
they advertise it kids and families can come, have mcdonald's, and a certain portion of the money goes to local schools. this is happening right now in america. again, schools are strapped for money. what can they do. although i have been told that the united teachers of l.a. have passed a policy denouncing these events. the lapd tried it out and teachers were opposed to it. i was in japan, and this came up -- pokemon -- they have pokemon stores over there. anyways, pokemon -- now there is this "pokemon go" that you play, and kids follow around, and they get a hotspot. then they get to go to the next level. now they have "pokemon" hotspots in japan that are in mcdonald's.
in order to get to the next level, you have to get to the mcdonald's, and if you buy a happy meal, you get a higher score. it is coming here, too. be prepared. somebody mentioned that they even tried -- mcdonald's tried in florida to do a thing where if you get a good report card, you get a sticker, and you get a free happy meal, or a reduced price happy meal, or something like that at mcdonald's. these are the kinds of things we just have to be careful, and keep our eyes open on this. let me close on this -- successes. healthy and hunger free kids act. as i said, i tried all during the 90's to get soft drinks out of schools. well, there are no soft drinks in schools today. so, we're making progress. [applause]
sen. harkin: all foods in schools must meet nutrition standards under this healthy and hunger free kids. i mentioned the farm to school. school gardens are springing up all over america -- we have to encourage more of them. the fresh fruits and vegetables program is great, but they are trying to water it down, or sugar it down. the school wellness policies -- these are going to be good, we just have to keep on them can we have to keep on the local school districts on their three-your evaluations. -- three-year if valuations. -- evaluations. so, the problems that i see are cash-strapped schools. schools will want to raise money from mcdonald's, corporate interests, things like that. the other thing i worry about is social media. one thing i have thought a lot about -- when you see an ad on television for junk food, we cannot buy an ad countering that.
we do not have enough money. we cannot do that. but if kids are moving things around in social media -- four kids, as you saw here earlier, well, you can get involved in that. i am proposing that we start to organizing a lot of youth in america with some music stars and others that they look up to, and when social media starts promoting different junk foods and things like that, we get right in the center of that, and we have a counter group of youth doing the same thing, connecting with other youth, and get involved in the whole scheme. it doesn't cost anything. we ought to be starting to organize young people along the social media lines, too. so, again, there are some things looming on the horizon. i think there will continue to be problems, but i think we have come along way, and i think we
can continue to push the frontiers on the advertising and, and also on the type of food, the kind of food kids are eating in the school breakfast and school lunch programs in america. so, i remain hopeful. thank you very much. [applause] sen. harkin: now, michael, did you want me to respond to anything? michael: yes, let's take five to seven minutes, if you don't mind, senator, and have questions from the audience. make sure you speak into the microphone. i am hard of hearing. i was covering for you. that way we can hear the question properly. we have microphones coming around. wait until you have got the microphone, and then you can ask your question. do we have the microphones? sen. harkin: there are no questions.
michael: there you go. thank you. rudy, can you -- i think there is a second microphone. there were a couple of hands. up here, the second table. >> good afternoon, senator. you are proposing or proposed a soda tax -- where will the proceeds of the soda tax go -- will it go and fund a behavioral things with schools, or will it be back to the state government, which uses it for something else? sen. harkin: well, the fact is the place is doing the soda tax like philadelphia -- it is a general revenue tax. it does not go into school health, or things like that.
it is a general revenue type thing, but hey, i will take what i can get. if it increases the cost and the price, and that tends to reduce some of the purchasing of it, that is ok with me. that is fine. obviously, i would prefer to see it as a dedicated source of revenue for children's health, for better food policy in our schools, but that is not where it is going. although, excuse me -- a city council, or a -- someone like that could decide that. >> right. that is what is happening in berkeley -- a general revenue tax in berkeley, but there was a committee appointed to say where those funds are going. in the first six months, i think it raised 1 million and a half dollars going back into schools, some for school gardens, and other programs dedicated to doing something about school health. sen. harkin: that is good.
that is good. i don't want to take any more time. one more. >> what would you think about -- or is it a viable strategy to try to remove some of the subsidies of commodity crops --sugar, etc.? is there any viable path there, or should we just move on to taxing on the other end, if you will? sen. harkin: the answer is yes -- well, again, maybe i am -- obviously, i represented for years, corn's, beans, hawks, cattle, so i had to be careful about that. i can be brave, but i am not a fool. [laughter]
sen. harkin: anyway -- so, basically, what i did in the 2008 farm bill, i was chairman. we picked out the fresh fruit and vegetable program. the other thing we made eligible for farm support programs, for the first time ever, fruit, nut crops, vegetables, for the first time ever, so they are eligible for a lot of different programs like conservation programs, things like that, but they had not been eligible for it before. now, there is no support price mechanisms in their, and there is no national, kind of -- what am i trying to think of -- a support mechanism, to have four corn, beans, rice, sugar -- that thing. at least now they are part of the program, and i am hopeful -- i have been hopeful ever since that the fruit and vegetable and tree nut people would begin to organize and organize more strongly to be a part -- a
bigger part of what we might call production agriculture in america. we need more fresh fruit farmers in america. we need more greenhouses in places around the country. that type of thing, but at least now they have their foot in the door. but, i don't know -- can you we need more greenhouses in reduce some of the other things? yeah, maybe. it is not as much as it used to be, i will tell you that. it is not as much support as there used to be for peanuts, cotton, rice. of course, tobacco went out some years ago -- corns, beans, that kind of thing -- so it is not so much direct payment as it is just support mechanisms out there. michael: thank you, senator. sen. harkin: ok.
thank you. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] >> if james madison is the architect of the constitution, and he might be, george washington is the general contractor. if you have ever put an addition on, it looks a lot more like what the general contractor had in mind then what the architect had in mind. q&a, he discusses ratifying the first federal document. >> hamilton had already talked about how this democracy stuff is never going to work. washington was a true republican. he believed in republican government. at 8:00 eastern on c-span's q&a.
tv'sy, december 4 on book in depth, we are hosting a discussion on the december 1941 attack on pearl harbor on the eve of the 75th anniversary. program, steve twomey, author of countdown to pearl harbor, and craig nelson, with his group -- book, pearl harbor, from infamy to greatness. followed by an interview with a .earl harbor survivor we are taking your phone calls, lives, and email questions from noon-3:00 p.m. eastern. go to book tv.org for the complete schedule. secretary of state henry kissinger recently sat down for an interview with former british prime minister john major where they discussed foreign policy in the nixon administration. mr. kissinger also answered questions about the syrian civil war, brexit and the u.s. relationship with britain. this comes from the bbc's briefings program.