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tv   Discussion Examines Justice Sandra Day O Connors Life and Legacy  CSPAN  January 1, 2017 2:40am-3:26am EST

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thank you, parents, out there. [laughter] >> please welcome back abby to read the jury's decision. [laughter] i want to think i'll the participants at the judges who gave their time. what you see them do on stage is because they too have read the briefs, taken the time, studied the law of verona, and we owe them a special thanks once again. [applause] this is my favorite part, i always hope i can bring this with me to the courtroom. they say i can't. thank you all the members of the
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jury for participating tonight. and i know you're just dying to know how it turns out, so let's not hesitate any longer. you'll remember the red chips that thought friar lawrence was more reliable and the blue chips were those that that the families were. [applause] with that verdict, i have heard that friar lawrence is considered to be appointed as the head of the fda. [laughter] [applause] >> this concludes the presentation of the mock trial. we hope you have enjoyed the evening. enjoy the rest of your evening and there will be baskets at the
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door to place your unused tokens. or you can wait until next year. [applause] [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2016] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit]
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the presidential inauguration of donald trump friday, january 20. c-span will have coverage of all the events and ceremonies. watch live on c-span and listen on the c-span radio app. >> tonight on "the communicators," a carnegie mellon professor discusses the impact of data on the book, movie, and television industries. he talks about how companies like netflix, amazon, and google accumulate data and use it to industries.
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>> having access to this data and having the skills and willingness to use it, you think would provide them an advantage. you can see where the investing is now going. >> watch "the communicators" tonight. >> the ronald reagan presidential foundation hosted a young woman's leadership summit in celebration of the 35th anniversary of the appointment of sandra day o'connor to the supreme court. the discussion included the life and legacy. this is 40 minutes. rebekah: as we begin, i want to start talking about women and leadership. and i am an avid researcher so i began by going to my good friend, google. rebecca: as we begin, i want to
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start talking about women and leadership. and i am an avid researcher so i began by going to my good friend, google. no, i did not. so, i went to google. i would have a lovely image of google there but i think you all 58.6 million responses that showed up. so there is a national, global, regional, local conversation happening around women and leadership. this year, the white house held the united states women's summit with the intention of celebrating what women have accomplished. they look forward to taking action and making a powerful difference in our collective future. in addition, there is the ted conference. how many of you are familiar with ted talks? google is. in 2000, the popular ted conference decided to bring
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forth a new initiative. ted women. a global initiative of bringing men and women together who wanted to look at where change begins. the previous year's summit was last month. the 2016 summit, we had over 40 speakers who came together to share their insights about the time is now. through that program, we have 280 ted x events across the globe. we had women who were tuning in for the live stream as well as bringing their own thoughts and presentations to the table. it truly was a global initiative from san francisco to seoul. everyone was talking about women and leadership. conferences are not the only space where these conversations are happening. how many of you have heard of sheryl sandberg? a few. i will enlighten you today. ladies, she is a force. i encourage you to google her. she is the coo of facebook.
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in 2010, she was approached to do a ted talk. she felt compelled to do it on women's leadership. what she was told is that you cannot be a professional, executive leader and talk about women. do you know what she did? she is a force. she did it anyway. she went on stage and she talked about women in leadership and the response was epic. it was so epic and the stories she was receiving from people touched by her talk, it is one of the best reviewed ted talks. she wrote a book about it called "lean in." she illuminates gender discrepancies and she uses it as a platform to advise women on how to achieve their goals. when she did do a, which was unintentional, was she created a movement. if you go to any social media outlet and type in #leanin you will find inspirational stories
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that come from sheryl sandberg. she created a call to action, to have an open dialogue and to bring forth change and create a more equal world. now, i have wonderful slides. there we go. since 2004, forbes magazine has been publishing their list of 100 powerful women. it just so happens that the first woman on that list was the woman who inspired today's events, chief justice sandra day o'connor. today, we find women in the public sector, private sector being recognized. the 2016 notables are public servants such as janet yellen, hillary clinton, michelle obama, bg herself, chief justice ruth bader ginsburg, and mary barra. these women have laid down the pavers of the road to success in women's leadership.
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and yet even though there is a thriving dialogue of women in leadership, these women are framed as the exception rather than as the example. in a study conducted by pugh -- pew research addressing women in leadership in 2015, you see startling data. first, in the past 50 years, women represented in congress has only grown from a total of four women in 1965 to currently, 39 women. roughly about 20% of our congress is women when the population of the united states reflects that women are 51%. in the past 20 years, leadership at the ceo level for fortune 500 companies has increased from zero in 1995 to only 5.2%. we are seeing women enter into leadership roles but not in a drastic rate.
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in 2013, when asked to reflect on changes since the writing of her book, sheryl sandberg stated that there is a difference between dialogue and action and that is what we are not seeing , action. she said, this is what we know. stereotypes are holding women back from leadership around the world. all around the world, no matter your culture, there is one constant. we think that men should be strong, assertive, aggressive, and have a voice. we think women should speak when spoken to and help others. women are judged through a different lens. men, the man is the boss. a woman, she is bossy. how many of you are feeling overwhelmed by that data? it is a safe space. we can share. i know that i am. in going through that, i started having questions and one i want to pose to you today is, what if
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we shift our perspective? instead of looking at it as we have only grown this much, what if we acknowledge it and look at it with optimism moving forward. president reagan was an eternal optimist. he focused on what people brought to the table and not what they lacked. the is how i chose to view recent events of our 2016 election. here are my takeaways. i want to be able to take a look at the election and celebrate things because i think that there are a lot of people, specifically women, who feel there is nothing to celebrate. here is what i am going to celebrate. i am going to celebrate that since 1980, the percentage of eligible women voters that turned out to vote has been more every single election than the men. we have women participating in a democracy as citizens and using their ballots as their voice. i think that is wonderful to celebrate. in addition, come january, there
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will be a record number of women serving in congress who are of color, 38. we see our first latina senator. catherine cortez mosta. we have tammy duckworth who will move from the house of representatives to the senate to hai-americanirst t representative. and we have the first indian-american woman to serve in the senate and kamala harris, the second african-american woman. [applause] and last, i want to address the elephant in the room, and not a republican. i am going to address hillary clinton. regardless of what you may feel at this moment with her campaign, i want to look at it with optimism. this is the first time in american history that we have
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had a woman top of the ticket of a major presidential party. [applause] rebecca: in addition, she received the majority of the popular vote by one million votes. [applause] rebecca: even though we do not have a woman in the white house today, glass ceilings were shattered this election. and despite what some might say, the glass ceiling, there is only one piece left and it is small and based on the remarks from our chief admin officer, joanne drake, she shared with me that there is one piece left and it resides over 1600 pennsylvania avenue, the white house but that is it. that is a great thing to celebrate moving forward. let us celebrate that for a moment. [applause]
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rebekah: many women, our mothers, grandmothers, have fought to bring us where we are today and it is up to us to continue paving and widening the road for future generations. this is what today is all about. we will have a dialogue and then we will take action. when sharing tips on how to open a dialogue about women and leadership, sheryl sandberg offers to suggestions -- two suggestions. one, be honest. two, tell your story. that is what i'm going to do with you today. i'm going to be honest and tell you my leadership story. i will shift from talking behind this podium because i do not want to talk at you about women's leadership, i want to talk with you. i want us to be girlfriends. having coffee. having a chat. i apologize that i did not bring the coffee. girlfriends chatting over water. [laughter]
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rebekah: i will be very vulnerable with you first of all. my weakness is public speaking. i am terrified of public speaking. and in thinking about that, i could not even begin to describe how i was going to tell you about the pit of anxiety in my stomach. i decided to be optimistic instead. i'm going to do what sheryl sandberg does and lean and. -- lean in. my leadership journey started with my family. i have a pretty big family, predominately women. what is interesting is that when growing up, when they talked about our family, they were talking about the women. we were a force. we still are. my sisters, there are four of us, we all have different personalities, and passions but the one thing that we share is that we had a voice. we were never told in our household that are voice needed to be muted. in addition to that, this is my
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sister diana. and i may get emotional and i may cry but that is ok. diana is 12 years my senior. since i was a child, she has been my mentor. she has provided a safe haven to me when i needed somebody to listen. she has provided advice when i did not know where to go. and she knows how to take care of me in ways that no one else does. there are times when i have gone to visit her and when i wake up, there is a cookie by my bed. and then there are massages booked in the afternoon. she is my mentor. in thinking about her, one of the things i admire is her leadership style. she brings poise, confidence, and compassion to everything she does. she has held a leadership role in everything she has done. i told you she was a force. and she is who i aspire to be when i eventually decide to be a grown-up. my next mentor is someone i have
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never met. when i went to graduate school, i studied women's history. i spent a lot of years of my life researching and telling stories about women that did not have a voice at the time and i fell in love with eliza pinckney. she was born in the west indies in 1722 and then she moved to south carolina with her father and ran his plantation for him. she was the first woman to successfully to cultivate indigo to use as a dye in the fabric market. if any of you are wearing jeans today, you have this lady to thank. she brought that the beautiful blue color to you. in addition, she also had the confidence at the age of 16 to not once, not twice, but three times tell her father, thank you but no thank you to the marriage proposals that he would bring home to her. she told him that i will be the
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decider of my own fate and she was and she married a wonderful man. when she became a mother, she was a progressive mother. she raised two young boys who when they grew up were involved in the american revolution and ended up being signers of the american declaration. her daughter ran three plantations of her own. george washington was a pallbearer at her funeral. she has also given us the largest collection of the written word by a female to date from the colonial era. as i spent years going through her letters and diaries, we became friends. in one of those letters in 1762, she wrote this to a friend. garden and a book. and they are my amusements except i include one of my greatest businesses of my life,
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my attention to my dear little girl." i told you i would get emotional. this brings me to my next step in my leadership journey. i am a mom. this is my daughter. this is a picture that i gave to her preschool when they asked me to give them a picture that represented her true self. she is a little fearless. this picture was taken on the day that she decided to dress herself for the first time. all by herself. she picked out everything. she came downstairs and then she posed for this picture because she wanted to document this. she has a strong conviction. and so she chose boys' underwear that has cars on them. she said, "mommy, boys have that are characters on their underwear."
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she chose her t-shirt that says "anyone can be anything." no pants. and she said that was on purpose. in thinking about that, that she is three years old and she has such a strong sense of self, i think about how i will be a leader to her as a woman. how do i cultivate that? she is why i do the work that i do here because i want her to grow up in a space where she can be who she wants to be and she can achieve what she wants to achieve and not feel like she is different. that brings me to my work here at the foundation. [applause] rebekah: as i was preparing my remarks, i could not bring to words what i do here. it is amazing, i get to work with with amazing young women and men and help cultivate the next generation of citizen leaders and i also get to work with an amazing team called the
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female trifecta. the three of us. when we come together and bring our individual strengths and talents, we can achieve greatness. it is my honor to serve as a mentor to the two young women here today. if you have an opportunity to see becky or whitney, given the high five, tell them they are awesome, and tell them it is from me. let us get to you, now. today is really about you and the work that i do here is really thinking about what you are going to usher in for the future. that is what it is all about. i am excited to see what passions you bring to the table, what personalities come out and what power comes into this room. some of you may be thinking, i do not have any power. i do not know what that feels like. that is ok. we are going to do an exercise. i don't know if many of you know about power posing but there is
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a harvard business school social psychologist. she has also done a ted talk and she has written a book about power posing. she believes that a person by assuming two simple one minute poses, embody power and will instantly become more powerful. it is taking the world over by storm. celebrities are doing it and tweeting about it. susanna kendrick, a day ago she was power posing before an event in chicago and she was excited. i would like us to harness that. the energy we bring into this room is going to be important for what we are going to accomplish today. i would love for everybody to to what would you do to bring your best and most empowered self to the table today?
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think about it. in a couple seconds, we are going to do it together. take a couple of deep breaths. think about what it looks like. you can go classic wonder woman. you can go silly. you can do a beyonce pose. whatever your heart desires. everyone -- i would love for everyone to please stand up. on the count of three, we are going to strike our power pose. and ladies, i want this power pose to be intentional, i want this power pose to fill the entire room with the girl power i know you are bringing to the table so that way we can set the tone for what we are going to accomplish today. are you ready? a ladies, we talked about this. are you ready? [applause] rebekah: on the count of three.
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1, 2, 3. again, technology has failed me. there was supposed to be a soundbite of beyonce. this is why i do not use technology and presentations. thank you for sharing that with us. i felt that energy. i want to thank the gentleman in the room that brought their girl power to the table. when we talk about women's leadership it is not just about women. we need to think about the men who are here to support us as well. na, likesister dian eliza pinckney, like my daughter, and my team, you are all a force and i cannot wait to witness the great changes that you guys bring about. you are the future. i want to leave you with a quote from ronald reagan. he is speaking to you. you can play a special part in
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the future. you will be the author. take full advantage of the wonderful world -- or wonderful life that lies in store for you. thank you for letting me share my story. [applause] rebekah: at this time, i would like to welcome a man in our life that 100% supports women's leadership. he was excited about putting on this event. it was the first thing he tasked me with a year ago. he thought he would get away without speaking today. i said, no, good sir. you are coming on stage. please welcome tony penny. [applause] tony: hello everyone. how are you? i am very obviously not a woman which is why i felt strange speaking at today's event. i am the learning officer here at the foundation.
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one of the reasons why i am excited to speak here is because i am a grandson to my grandmother and a son to my mother. i have been mentored by many women and i am fully behind women's leadership. women have inspired me my entire life. our mission here is best summed up in the words of president reagan. freedom is never more than one generation away from extinction. we don't pass it to our children in the bloodstream, and must be fought for, protected, and handed on for them to do the same or one day we will spend our sunset years telling our children what it was like in the united states. that is our job at the foundation, we are charged with cultivating the next generation of citizen leaders. the source -- sorts of thoughtful, engaged leaders we know our country needs. people like you. women like you. five years ago, when i was first appointed the director of education at the foundation, my
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first big assignment was to host a discussion with justice sandra day o'connor. if i am being honest, i was scared out of my mind. not because i was nervous being on stage. i do get a little nervous being on stage and i did not sleep much that night. and not because at that time, it was the biggest moment of my career. and it was and i wanted to make sure it went well. but i was scared because we had only one hour to sit down with someone that had changed history. i was worried that an hour was not enough time to convey how important she was to our country, to young women, to people who aspire to legal careers. and i was worried we would not have enough time to figure out exactly what she meant to the future in that hour. 2016 marks the 35th anniversary of her appointment to the supreme court. with three women on the supreme court now, perhaps we have grown accustomed to seeing women at
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the highest level of the law but prior to her confirmation in 1981, the supreme court had been in existence for 192 years and 101 men had served on the court. to give you an idea of how difficult it was for a woman to reach the supreme court even 192 years after the formation of our country and 60 years after the 19th amendment, justice o'connor mentioned that before her appointment to the supreme court, president reagan's attorney general had made a list of potential women that could sit on the supreme court. president reagan had promised to nominate a woman to the supreme court. that list was very short. does anyone know why? there were not a lot of federal judges who were women. there was not a lot to choose from. franklin roosevelt in 1934 appointed the first female federal judge.
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between 1934 and 1977, a total of only eight women had been named to the federal courts. there were not a lot of women to choose from. why was that? sandra day o'connor graduated from stanford law school in 1952. how different was the world then? how difficult was it for a young female lawyer? what odds did she face? i will let her tell you. hopefully we have the sound working. i will tellnnor: you that it was hard in those days. i got out of law school in 1952, and there were notices on the placement bulletin board at stanford law school and they were from every major law firm in california. standford law graduates call us. we want to talk to you about a job. there were at least 40 of them on the bulletin board. i called 40 phone numbers of law
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firms to ask for an interview. not a single one would even give me an interview. i was female. they would not even talk to me. and they had these notices on the bulletin board. i had a friend at stanford from undergraduate days whose father was a partner at a california law firm. i went to her and asked her if she would talk to her father to help me get an interview with the law firm he was with. and she did and he did. i made the trip to los angeles, talked to the distinguished honor. oh, ms. day, you have a fine resume but we have never hired a female lawyer and i do not see the day that we will. i looked shocked. he said, our clients would not stand for it. that is where i was. and i needed a job because i had gotten engaged to john o'connor. he was a year behind me and we both liked to eat and so that
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meant one of us had to work and that was me. [laughter] i heard thatnor: one lawyer once had a female lawyer on his staff. i wrote him a letter and made an appointment. he was very nice, italian-american. and they still elect county attorneys in california. he had been there for a while. he could not be nicer. he said i had a fine resume. and he said that he did have a female lawyer in his office at one point. and he said he would be happy to have me but i get my money from the county board of supervisors and i am not funded to hire another deputy. what can i do? i went back to the lazy b ranch because i was getting ready for a wedding out there. i wrote him a long letter. i said, i told him the the
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things i thought i could do well if he hired me. i said, i will work for you for nothing. you do not have to pay me a dime until such time that you have money to pay something. that is all right with me. , i do notd, you know have an office. and i said that i know you do not have an office but i met your secretary and she is very nice and i would be happy to put my desk in with the secretary if she did not object. that was my first job as a lawyer. no pay and i put my desk in with the secretary. but you know what, i loved my job. i got such interesting legal questions to try to answer. i loved every minute of my job. in those days, a woman had to maybe make some special efforts to get some kind of work but i'm glad that i did and it all worked out. [applause]
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tony: it is amazing that she says "special efforts." because sandra day o'connor, she graduated near the top of her class, she was one of the brightest young legal minds in the country and she had to beg to work for free. almost unimaginable today. a lot of people would have given up after calling 40 firms. interview, instant agreeing to cozy up with the secretary. but not sandra day o'connor. that is one of the reasons why president reagan liked her so much. she was tough. she grew up on a ranch near the arizona-new mexico border. 35 miles from the nearest town. they only went into town once a week. she said, " i grew up on a ranch and was used to doing things. it did not matter if i was a boy or a girl. there was work to be done and somebody had to do it." 192 years into our country's
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history, there was work to be done and someone had to do it. it was time for a woman to take her rightful place on the highest court in the land. she understood that being first does not mean being easy. she said it is exciting to be the first to do something but i did not want to be the last. if i took that job and did a lousy job it might be a long time before another woman would be named to the court. she took that job and did it well and now we have become accustomed to seeing not just a woman on the court but women on the court. president reagan talked about his appointment of justice o'connor as one of his proudest moments in office. she was not the only tough woman in president reagan's life nor the only important woman in his life. as part of the framing for the work of today, i want to talk briefly about some other important women that played a role in his life. i want you to do some thinking and writing. everybody has a notebook and 10 -- pen.
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i am going to talk about two different types of women in president reagan's life. the first person i want you to think about is your foundation. i want you to think about the best parts of yourself, your character, your integrity, your work ethic. i want you to think about and write down the name of a woman or women -- where does that come from for you? where does your foundation come from? for president reagan, it came from his mother. there is a picture of president reagan and his mom. he wrote about her in his autobiography. "my mother, a small woman with auburn hair and a sense of optimism that ran as deep as the cosmos said that everything in life happened for a purpose. she said all things were part of god's plan, even the most disheartening setbacks, and in the end everything will work out best.e if it is something went wrong, do not let it get you down.
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on." ep over it and move later on she added, something good will happen and you will find yourself thinking, if i had not had that problem back then, then this better thing that did happen would not have happened to me. he was writing about this after not getting a job at montgomery ward. he had to search for other work. and he wrote, although i did not know it then, i was beginning a long journey away from dixon. my mother was right. go ahead and think about writing down the name of a person and write a note as to why this person is a foundation for you. i will talk about my own. we saw rebecca talk about her personal story and for me, my foundation comes from my grandmother. when i was in seventh grade, anyone been through seventh grade? excellent, a lot of us. seventh grade was tough for me. it was a tough transition. i failed half of my classes. that summer, my grandmother who had a house in montana in the
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middle of nowhere, every single day we sat down together and she gave me a lecture on what it meant to do my best. she looked at my grades and said, these grades are lies, this is not you, you are better than this. i expect better of you. in the end, can you imagine that every single day? my grandmother was tough and is still tough. at the did that summer i said, "listen grandma, i'm going to get on the honor roll intercede on how to talk to me about this again go i went on to get on the honor roll. i still hear her voice from that summer every time i have something tough going on. we have our foundation. the second person i want you to think about for you is the light. someone who inspires us and causes us to do our best. who constantly elevates us to do better. for president reagan, it was his beloved nancy. mrs. reagan. who earlier this year passed
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away and was buried next to him, together forever. if you get a chance a, you should stop by the gravesite and a your respects. in a letter to nancy on their 31st wedding anniversary he -- i am morenot than in love with you, i am not whole without you. you are life to me. when you are gone, i am waiting for you to return so i can start living again." how many of you have gotten a love note like that? a couple of you. look at that. there are some great gentlemen out there. i want you to think about and write down a person or a woman who brings light to you. it may be people that inspire you. i want you to think about that today. for me, this is my children and for the purpose of today, my daughters. that is the reason i love my work here, as well. every day i want to go home and i want to hug my kids. there was a poll that bothered me before the election about people who look at our country and say, this country will be
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worse off for my children than it was for me. for me, the work that we do here is saying, that is not acceptable. how can you look at your child and say, i am working at a world that will not be as good for you? for me, it is my children. if they deserve it, so does every child in every town. if we do not believe that we are building a more perfect union, a land with liberty and justice, how can we sit around and just hope someone else will fix it for us? we cannot. every time i hug my children or see them smile or listen to their dreams, i know this light will keep on burning. to wrap up today, as we celebrate the 35th anniversary of the o'connor appointment to the supreme court and ronald reagan's said when she was confirmed, "let me also say that
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justice o'connor's confirmation celebrates the richness of opportunity that still lives in america. opportunity that allows every person to aspire and achieve in a manner never before dreamed history." man a moment ago, i mentioned liberty and justice. every time you say the pledge of allegiance, you say that over and over again. two of the most important american ideals. for the purpose of today, it is interesting that these two quintessential american ideals are always represented in the form of a female. this is a statue outside of the supreme court. we talked about justice. this is called the contemplation of justice. if any of you have been in trouble with your mom before, you know this exact look as your mom contemplates justice for you. you might have seen this. this is the typical depiction of justice, the woman with the scales of justice. another lady that was very important to president reagan was lady liberty.
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since 1886, the statue of liberty has stood with her light held high in the new york harbor welcoming people from all shores. president reagan talked about the shining city on the hill. here is what i want you to do. rebecca had you do your power pose and i want you to do your liberty pose. i want you to think about the foundation. i want you to stand up. stand up because the foundation is what gives you strength. your foundation is what gives you strength, it is your moral core, your character. i want you to feel the strength you have. the foundation. i want you to feel it in your legs. focus on your legs and feel the strength you have there. feel the strength that you have when you stand up for something that is important to you. does everybody feel that? how many of you feel that? sometimes it is hard to stand for a long time. the statue of liberty has been standing since 1886.
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do not complain. you have strength in your legs. now, feel the strength in your arms. when there is work to do and you use your arms to get to work done, that strength is there. stand up straight. feel the strength you have in your backbone. being a leader is tough and sometimes you have to stand up and make tough decisions. but you have that strength in your backbone. look how straight she is standing. since been doing this 1886. the strength you have here. the strength of mental toughness. when things get tough, that is when it is tough as to be a leader. and the strength you have inside of you. these are all of the different strengths and this is why your foundation is so important. you have the foundation. now, hold up your light. there you go. a room full of statues of liberty. i think this would be ronald reagan's dream. sometimes, when you are leading or working on something you believe in with all of your heart, it is tough because
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darkness happens. you hear the word no and things you want don't happen. but you have to hold onto your light. be strong and hold up the light. sometimes, you do not have that light within you. it feels like it has gone out. so you have to look to the light to lead you out of darkness. and sometimes, you will have to be that light for other people. this is what i want you to do. make a pledge to yourself and the other women in this room, some days you will need that light and they will be there for you. some days you will be that light. now, i want you to reach out and light someone else's torch. be that light for someone else. there you go. i love it. i love it. sandra day o'connor said that one of the things that she really loved is to find work worth doing and work hard at it. that is what i want you to do.
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find work that is worth doing. that is worth your time, your investment, your energy and strength. and work hard at it. today, we are going to work hard on what we are doing. thank you very much and have a wonderful day. [applause] >> c-span, where history unfolds daily. in 1979, c-span was created as a public service by america's television companies. it is brought to you by your satellite provider. annualht on c-span, the banquet of the muslim public affairs council. speakers include hug of a sarah, recently designated to be the next california attorney general, khizr khan, van jones, and george takei.
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when i've heard that first trial balloon a few weeks ago from carl higbee, a surrogate for the trumpet administration, from the trump transition team, i knew exactly what was going to be coming down. he talked about a muslim registry, which was a chilling echo for me because, back in the 40's, they had a japanese-american database. they are using the word registry, but it is the same thing that came down on us, a database, where they knew where we were, how many lived in that household, and what we did. after they had the database, they came down with a curfew.


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