tv Washington Journal Aparna Mathur and Isabel Sawhill Discuss Paid Family... CSPAN June 13, 2017 8:46am-9:34am EDT
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library. >> "washington journal" continues. host: for tuesday round table on family leavepaid we're joined by aparna mathur resident scholar at the american enterprise institute. atbel sawhill senior nell the brookings institute. paid familyookings leave project. good morning to you both. here.you for being isabel sawhill the working group that you're part of, out with a report last week getting attention from the highest levels of the white house. paid family and medical leave an issue who's time has come. who's timen issue has come? isabel: i think it's an issue that time has come, we're the advanced country and one of the very few countries in the world that had a paid family leave program.
for new parents. we thought it's really time for the united states to step up and for parents who that are balancing work and family life. you have a baby and especially low wage worker, you're very dependent on your wages. suddenly, you either have to be at work or you have to be home baby. care of the you can't do both. host: what is this working group and how put together? aparna: that's a great question. we wanted to get experts who's this issue for years. a group.gether from american action forum. we have experts at universities. we think it represents people who have traditionally
views.ative people who have liberal views. republican administrations and hill on democratic issues. just to make sure that we were representing all sides clearly and carefully. we were engaging in the debate looking at things from everybody's point of view. businesses think about this. how do workers feel about this. group.en a fun working host: and the report issued last week getting attention from the as well.se it's a working group that didn't agree on everything. at least came up with a proposal on paid family leave. are you proposing. isabel: there are three types leave. family there's leave to take care of a new baby. there's leave for your own problems. there's leave to take care of member.sick family
what we focused is the new baby piece of this. came up with a compromised proposal. aparna said, it was difficult to do. we managed and got everybody on same page. we said people should get eight paid leave, 70% of your regular wage or salary up to a of $600 per week. we said you should have job protection, meaning if you take leave and you come back to the same employer, they should save your job for you. would apply for both paternityleave and leave? how would this be paid for? aparna: the compromise we calm up with was to have a payroll hike to fund part of the
paid leave program. but at the same time, that theng the concern u.s. government deficits and debts are unsustainable trajectory. we put in a caveat in there being we want the policy to budget neutral. we want to do this in combination with spending cuts budget.e in the specifically cuts that don't workers.income neutral.his budget which is how states are doing it currently. host: it's the idea to get this legislation?ederal isabel: that would be many aspiration. there are five who have it. it.s
it is really an issue this time as come. if the federal government doesn't do it, we think the will continue to march forward on their own. areof private employers beginning to catch on. host: this report available both and aei's web pages. it was getting promoted being last week by ivanka trump herself. tweeting out the date of the release of the report. time to make america great for working families. the president's daughter said. you had a chance to meet with her. had a really good meeting with ivanka trump herself and her team. we have sent them copies of the report. they read it and their reactions was wonderful. what was interesting to me, it signaled openness to this report. saying, we're not stuck with the plan that we proposed during the campaign. to understood it through state unemployment insurance.
to offer a relief program for settlement weeks. we showed them our compromised plan, they said, open to newtely approaches. we love the issue. about. what we're care more actione to see on the report that you guys presented to us. host: this compromised plan that able to come up with, just one of several plans out there. there's president's plan he talked about on the campaign trail. there's couple floating around from members of congress. isabel: there's a democratic provides 12 weeks of paid leave. camemore generous what we up with. it's gotten quite a lot of attention. by senator gillibrand and derosa.woman
some other plan. on the republican side, a plan been put forward by senator fisher and senator rubio providesor king that tax incentives to private employers to do more on the paid front. host: we're talking about all of these plans this morning. especially this proposal from brookings institute. hear your story about family leave. especially parental leave. your officening in and your questions as we take up this topic. here onnext 40 minutes "washington journal." phone lines, republicans 202-748-8001 and democrats 202-748-8000, independents 202-748-8002. marlin is in coffman, texas, a republican. good morning. caller: good morning.
i was just wondering how you position that you should get -- families should at paid leave when they have baby. or some other series illness. women same time they want to have equal pay with men if they don't do equal work. noticed from the brookings institute, they're always willing to spend other programs.ey on their that's the way of the liberals. they love spending other people money. thank you. isabel: i like to answer that. for your comment. first of all, let me point out that the way we propose paying is through a payroll tax on employees. not other people money. it's the money of the people who are actually going to get their benefits. it's similar to social security, you pay into the system and you get benefits. is the same idea. you pay into the system through an employee payroll tax and then you get the benefits later on.
who hase that somebody children is going to benefit compared to someone who never has children. still it's a contributory system. host: aparna mathur i want you idea that wase important in your report to say, it would be the same benefits paternity leave as maternity leave. aparna: just to answer the question before. care about these policies because they do encourage women to stay in the labor force. a baby, we often find them just quitting the workforce. deciding it was too much to manage work and family. who areion that women taking time off or actually passing on the work responsibility to somebody else, it's unfair. about a minimum period of leave. people can need it at any point time. that's how insurance works.
someone needs it, someone else steps in. do get -- we do care about gender -- we don't want this to be a policy against women. is your responsibility to go home and look after the child. you need to take time off from work. we found from a lot of research that it's really important to have fathers take that time off. for bonding.t it's important for gender neutrality in child care. we think it reduces the potential for discrimination if we're telling employers that both mothers and that eligible for the leave. host: lot of great charts in your report. them comparing in 1965.nd mothers the yellow is the number of hours a week spent in paid work. part of the bar, the week fathersrs spend. house work.
orange part number of hours a week spent in child care. fast forward to 2015, the change in those hours among fathers here on the left and mothers out right. yellow paid work and blue house work and orange child care. reportwant to see the it's available both on brookings institution and aei's website. it thising through -- morning. joe ann is in birmingham, alabama. i don't recall caller: i was saying how important it is for paid leave. foure taken care of about or five -- what?four or five caller: foryour five of my elder members off work to take care of them. them.id for some kind of way. i don't know through social security or whatever. too, i think we inuld invest a lot of time
women being trained to be healthcare workers for the care.y and child lot of young women are good with children but they're not teacher orbeing a doctor. they might be interested in taking care of our children. themt a program to support and their training and invest a ablef money in them being to work as they won't have to hire a babysitter. sometimes you got three or four children, you want to go to for, you're really wagger -- working for the babysitter. point: i think that the she made about lot of elderly people need care is exactly right. how expensive it is if there aren't family members available, to take care of an elderly relative and they end up medicaid and in a nursing home. that's much more expensive than if you can free up family members to help with the care. it's also better care typically.
caller: about whether i have children or not. if you are spending my time, i have a right to tell you. is not addressed because it is considered political suicide. host: what kind of business did you and your husband run? caller: we had a small honda ,ealership in saint augustine florida. financially that we could have. host: got your point on that and thanks for the call. guest: thank you for those thoughts. of all, on the impact on small businesses like yours, very important.
we talked about it a lot. the public think about paid leave, they think it's going to be a mandate on employers to pay for it. that is not what we propose. we propose it be paid for through payroll taxes. the point on how it could be disrupted even though someone else is paying for it to have to replace them until they came back is absolutely right. we did have some conversation about whether or not we should accept -- exempt small businesses. host: juju in the end -- did you in the end? guest: for maybe the smallest businesses with businesses fewer think thatloyees, i exemption could be considered. it is still part of the design . guest: i wanted to say something about her second point. i read a whole book on your
second issue and i want to tell you about my book called generation unbound. it addresses right on the mail exactly what you are talking about. host: the conclusion that you would give to her? guest: my conclusion would be that we need to help young women of lloyd these unplanned -- avoid these unplanned pregnancies and burst that they s thatt press -- birth they are not prepared to hav e. host: good morning, johnny. caller: i have a comment and a question. a late-night talkshow host just had a baby and a life and the child had a heart defect. should bes parents
given automatic paid leave for that situation. can you please find how the affordable care act the fines existing conditions versus the republican plan and how they define existing conditions? host: a bit of a different topic. guest: i do not know the details of the definition of pre-existing conditions and the aca versus the republican bill. we have two republican bills. we have the house bill and now the senate working on it. everything is a little up in the air. host: let's start on the front side of the question. it uses the example of jimmy kimmel situation. can you talk about companies and types of businesses and what sectors generally offer paid leave policies right now? it is not a federal mandate, but the individual businesses are doing it.
who is more likely to get a paid leave policy today? guest: when you look at the landscape of which companies give paid leave policies, tends to be larger businesses, companies and tech and finance. are typically recruiting high skilled workers and want to retain those workers. they think there is a benefit to offering a competitive package that includes these policies. the workers with the least access are those in retail and food and services and sort of leisure, hospitality, those kinds of industries. workers tend to be low paid and have low benefits. even imagine don't that they have access to these kinds of policies. see these disparities. youou are high wage worker, are more likely to get it and if you are a low-wage worker, you
are least likely to get it. andnly have 14% of workers that even have access to paid leave. we are not just talking about low-wage workers even though disparities are pretty obvious there. it still a lot of middle income and high income workers that do not have access to these policies. host: thomas is a republican. good morning. caller: how are you? two simple questions to the guests -- i heard one of them say that $600 a week should go to these women. my next question is to each support planned parenthood? i would like to have an answer please. host: do you want to clarify the policy? guest: the policy is that you , but0% of your normal wage only up to $600 per week. year, make $100,000 a
you're still only going to get the $600. it's an attempt to make sure the benefits go to people toward the lower end of the wage scale. access tort contraception for women. , butnk it's very important it don't tickets related to this issue all that much. host: that was not a policy recommendation included? we did not talk about that at all on our group. host: is it in the process of being turned into official legislation? guest: not at all. we're at the stage where we're trying to get our report out to everybody. it offers a framework for thinking about these issues. the white house is showing a lot of interest in our report and they are interested in continuing that conversation. we are hoping that this is the base for starting that conversation. i do not think we are close to legislation yet.
emphasize we need to other types of leave. so many colors have suggested that there are people struggling to look after their elderly parents. there are people struggling to look after their children. we need to have policy surrounding that as well. this is a report that's going to candy. it is the aei brookings working group on paid family leave. very easy to find on the internet. dorothy is in abilene, texas. good morning. go ahead. caller: good morning. my name is dorothy. host: you are on the air. caller: i was calling because this president wants to take our social security. he wants to take our medicare he wants to cut all
the benefits that would help people that's working. he is not helping working families. host: i will let you take that up and maybe can talk us through what the president's proposal was on the campaign trail for the paid family leave and where that is in the process. guest: their proposal was to provide paid parental leave the state unemployment insurance programs and provide about six weeks of paid leave these are state programs, the benefits would very across states. i think what we're seeing now is more flexibility and the idea that this is not a plan that they actually intend to promote. this may not be the legislation they intend to back. they're open to new ways of doing. , we specifically
outlined that we do not want this to come at the cost of that to lower income workers. i know that there's a big a-day mdc that any new spending might come at the cost of low income workers or elderly people. in our very clear working group that this is a trade-off we were willing to make. host: the district of columbia is one of the parts of the country that has their own specific program that has now been passed into law. what is d.c.'s benefit when it comes to paternity leave and maternity leave? plan: the d.c. paid leave is one of the most generous we have seen. of theare a resident district of columbia, you should be happy about that. i do think it's going to be more expensive than they may think. we will see how that works out.
we are having are quite a lot of experience now because we have different states doing this in different ways. we have an opportunity now to see what kind of paid leave plan works the best. host: the oldest program from the state is in california, enacted in 2002. what can we learn from their plan? guest: the california plan is a very sensible plan, i think. what we have learned from it is first of all not that many people know about it. the number of people who have actually participated have not been very high. we also know that contrary to what many people assume, businesses have been quite happy with it. ,here have been surveys including smaller businesses, and they have had no problem with it at all. host: other states with programs are new jersey, rhode island, and new york. we went through the district of columbia as well. robin is waiting in durham, north carolina.
good morning. caller: good morning. i want to express -- i'm not for because -- number one, i don't want anything else deducted from my check as a tax. when i was having my family, i knew that i needed to save at least six months of hills and stuff. i was carefully planning my parenthood. people should do that. i believe that the federal government and the state would put more emphasis on quality day incorporate newborn training for employees or caregivers, maybe after eight weeks after birth i went back to work.
if a woman has to go back to work with other circumstances, the care should be at an affordable rate. i do not believe that i should for somee paying a tax other woman's decision to have a child if she is not financially prepared for it. i know that might sound selfish, but that's enough taxes. there are enough things that we are carrying. we are doing food stamps. we are doing section eight financing. we are doing all these things. there's a limit to what taxes can pay for. host: thanks for sharing your story. guest: that's a great point and we do here that from people saying we do not want any more taxes on our waste income. -- wage income. there are proposals on how we can incentivize people to save andor becoming parents maybe that's a policy that is sort of more neutral and allows people the choice to do it.
policy,mending that there are a lot of low income people who simply don't have the resources to save. we are talking about social insurance. that does mean that other people are helping them meet that need. as a society, i'm sure more people are comfortable with of not caringtead about other workers. the other thing to point out is that suggests we need to move beyond parental leave. we need to talk about leave for own illness. we need to talk about leave for looking after elderly parents. i think that is a need that more people can get behind that there's more this feeling that that is a social insurance plan that might actually get more people on board. some point will be needing to take time off for those types of leave. i feel like they would feel
happier contributing towards that plan that includes all these types of constituencies rather than simply parental leave. question of if it is just parental leave, why are we making this sort of a social insurance program? host: let's go to george in ohio, republican. good morning. caller: thank you. the independent on just before this lady made good sense. i had inherited my father's business, plumbing and heating. i started my own business as a former -- farmer after they had bought some land. alter my life i had to pay for everything myself. i got outords, when of high school, i was not a mom and dads insurance forever like kids are now. when my wife got pregnant, she took off work for five years
until the kids were in school. tight to pull our belt because we do is going to take more money and we had less income. we took care of ourselves. farmers and i told you there are a lot of farm programs. we did not participate in those programs because that was no a poor manhan taking on the street taking money from the government. how are we going to ever work ourselves out of debt in this justry if everybody wants everything they want paid for? they want abortions paid for. women want contraceptives paid for. i've said if the wendell wants to full around, little woman by her own contraceptive. let's let themma respond. guest: that's the debate in this country. we are having a huge debate now about health care. lessuld pay less and have
health care benefits or we could pay more and have some benefits we don't have now. that's what the political system is all about. ok for it's perfectly people to have different views about that particular trade-off. however thatnced we are always making the trade-off in the best way. that i think some of the spending we are doing in the current budget is more important than helping a young family with a new baby to manage. as we said earlier, there are ,laces where we can cut including tax expenditures we could cut. there are a lot of tax subsidies in the system. we could do away with in order to pay for things like this . host: maybe it's time for you to explain what the united states has decided is ok with when it
comes to leave policies and how that compares with the rest of the world. guest: what we have currently in the u.s. at the federal level is simply an unpaid job protected 12 weeks of leave under the family and medical leave act that tells people you can take 12 weeks off. we will not pay you, but your job protected. the has led to a need at state level where they said we recognize employees need some amount of l pay if they need to take off. we have been jersey and rhode island -- new jersey and rhode island who have done 60% wage replacement. we have dcn new york moving toward more generous policies. we are seeing experimentation at the state level as compared to the rest of the oecd.
as mentioned that the beginning, we are the only country that does not have a federal paid leave policy. when we look at the oecd, those countries have 54 weeks of leave on average. there's a lot of variation in terms of wage replacement. intoof it is split up maternity and paternity leave. i do not think anyone in our group is recommending those long periods. we do worry about their ability to come back to work and the cost of businesses offering that leave, but we do believe it's time to have a basic federal policy that ensures access to all workers irrespective what state you are in and what industry you work for to have a few weeks of leave at the birth of a child or other caregiving needs. host: about 10 minutes left in
our discussion. in midlothian, virginia, democrat, good morning. caller: it amazes me at the calls that you get from people who are talking about women having babies. they want women to have babies. they don't want them to have abortions. however, they don't want to help women once they have these children. i admire these ladies for talking about this family leave. this greedy country will never give anything to anyone. right now, we have a congress and president who is saying that out of the policies for insurance, they are going to take away the benefit for women prenatal and ave separate character -- care. insurance is this
that you are paying for that you cannot even depend on insurance to pay your emergency room costs ? there's no need to have insurance if you're not going to be covered for those essential services. host: thanks for the call/ . guest: you're right. there is a discussion right now about denying people the least -- or at least giving states the option to deny people those kinds of benefits . under the affordable care act, those kinds of benefits were guaranteed. it was also the case that not only prenatal care and the care of the child itself later on were covered, but also contraception was covered so that women would not have to have babies that they were not ready to have. i think those were good provisions. i would hate to see them go away
because it's much cheaper in the long run for taxpayers and much that are for the health of families if people can wait to have children until they are ready to be parents. good care for get the birth of their child in the immediate aftermath of it. host: good morning. comment is that i'm a stay-at-home mom because i'm fortunate enough to have a husband who can afford to maintain our lifestyle and me not have to work. i can imagine how difficult it would be for a single mother or somebody with an unexpected pregnancy. if you have to choose between raising a child and then providing childcare -- there's my son in the back. impossible,ally especially in this area, to
provide health care. that is why i don't have a full-time job. if iuld be losing money took both children to preschool or full-time daycare. i see family leave as education. it's an investment in the future. at some point, my children will be running power plants or got for bid nursing homes. when everyone else retires, some but he has to run the rest of the world. host: olivia, thanks for the call. guest: thanks for that comment. feeling and thought completely in the working group. we do think that children are an investment. we do think that women need to be able to have a choice. this is not about forcing women back to work. this is about saying you have a choice about taking that time off when you need it.
and feeling comfortable that you can spend time with your child. we are talking about eight weeks. this is not a huge long period. it's important for the health of the mother. it's important for the health of the child. it's important for the bonding of the father and the child. we love that you think like that and we love that you made that comment. host: a couple of tweaks that have come in as we have been having this conversation. one says i love the idea of an optional savings account. caring for mysays elderly mother is what ultimately took me out of the job market 12 years ago. now over 50 of prospects are bleak. question from j sanders -- if every parent took full advantage, what level of payroll tax would be required to fully fund this? guest: let me take the second first. the family act, which is more
, it is more generous than what we propose and they estimate that it would require that there be at .2 percentage increase in the payroll tax. if the payroll taxes now 6.2%, it would go to 6.4%. you would hardly see this in your paycheck. host: that could only be used for this? guest: that's right. i don't know if that's a great estimate, but that's the one we have right now. the other comment was about -- remind me. guest: about taking time off for looking after his elderly. host: the other tweets are sharing stories. guest: we hear these stories all the time about elderly parents and the need to take time off.
difficult it how is to get back in the labor market when you're older. i think that's absolutely right. host: let's head to maryland. harrison is a republican. caller: good morning. my question is what would be the long-term benefit on society? also, do you believe in the psychology that it's more important to be there for kids teensive years in their versus anybody can train your toddler baby? will this provoke more women to have children out of wedlock? thank you. guest: on the long-term economic impacts, i think we have good research that suggests that there are really good health impacts and really good economic impacts. it is good for maternal and and many factors and that have been research. we know women are much more likely to return to their
employers that they have access to paid leave. i think it's a interesting that of economic advisers can mount will the report recently that said much of the middle class income growth and the 1970's can be attributed to women's hire workforce participation. that increase in participation not just as a country but within families. demographics of and spouses working participating is important. positivehere are long-term impacts and it's important for the early formative years to have the mother and father home. this what you think about saying it's somewhat incentivizes women to have more children out of wedlock?
guest: you have to have work experience to be eligible for this benefit. you can suddenly have a baby and get this benefit. you have to spend at least a before you're even eligible for it. somebody would have to be very strategic minded and do a lot of planning around this to take advantage of this benefit as a way to have a child outside of marriage. host: just a minute or two left. let's get tony from louisiana. good morning. caller: not only am i a republican, i'm a mother and grandmother and worked before there was any type of family leave act or any of these programs. i still have sympathy and empathy for working women. however, i think there could be a simple fix to this without involving another layer of bureaucracy.
simply make pregnancy family leave, whether it be for a new parent,elderly a qualifying event for your 401(k) so that they can contribute, employers can contribute. i'll even know what to tell you about what the impact would be on welfare mothers. there are mothers out there who have never seen anyone work. i don't understand how we can even be having this conversation when we are paying for generations of families that have never worked and never see an impact upon their income because they have another baby. host: we are running out of time and i want to get our panel's thoughts on that suggestion you offered. guest: we have heard good ideas out there for how we can voluntarily encourage parents to save for these types of leaf and maybe it's savings in a 401(k)
or in a tax-deferred account. in with thislways really impact the lowest wage workers? guest: i would agree that not everyone has a 401(k) could that is the issue. guests want to thank the and you can check out the reports on the websites of both brookings and aei. up next on "washington journal," we are talking about the future of uber with the author of "wild ride: inside uber's quest for world domination." we will be right back. ♪ >> in case you missed it on c-span, retired brigadier calloway on the possible threat of climate change on national security. if you go back to older field manuals, there's one from the
1980's that says whether a terrain's most significant aspects of battlefield conflict, orther it is the open seas the hell you're want to climb, they are in chandra now. -- change right now in the and the military is concerned about that. the military is concerned about forecasting what might happen. whyi want to know [indiscernible] [applause] >> remember when i said at the beginning of the meeting and that is that in our options going to be tolerated. -- interruptions are not going to be tolerated. would you please sit down, sir? she has the floor. you do not. would you please sit down? would you please sit down or go
out and the hallway? thank you for leaving. king at aenator angus hearing on the foreign intelligence surveillance act. >> why are you not answering these questions? is an evocation by the president of the united states of executive privilege? >> not that i'm aware of. >> why are you not answering her questions? what you feel isn't relevant, admiral. >> and wagner on changes to the dodd frank act. >> today we released a report titled, was the cup on the beat? this is regarding the cfp bees in theinadequate role best wells fargo fraudulent account scandal. we have received numerous records from both wells fargo and others that indicate that the cfeb was asleep at the wheel. >>