tv Washington Journal Representative Thomas Massie Discusses Concealed Carry... CSPAN June 22, 2017 8:35am-9:05am EDT
is president obama said, has an arc, and we would never celebrate a famous speech is the events of 1989 had not transpired the way it did. , goor our complete schedule to c-span.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: at her table, thomas massie who sits on the government reforms committee. congressman, after that shooting was to place in virginia but was targeting members of congress that's been a large amount of their time in washington d.c., what did that reveal to you about your safety and the safety of your colleagues? people may not realize, but there are very few members of congress that have a security detail in washington d.c. 90% of us are basically sitting
ducks when they come to washington d.c. because even though a lot of us have concealed carry permits and a lot of our staff have concealed carry permits, and we in ourirearms congressional district, when we are in the district of columbia, we cannot do that. bill have introduced a that would make d.c., washington d.c., honor the concealed carry permits from the various states. over three quarters of the state has some reciprocity arrangements with other states. and d.c. is sort of an anomaly because it does not organize any states for concealed carry permits. this is a common sense situation that does not cost any money because there are discussions in the capital about how do you protect the other 98 percent of congressman who don't have security detail? money if you cost
signed all of us a security detail. and frankly, we want the ability to take care of ourselves. host: do you have a concealed carry permit? guest: i do. host: so when you are in kentucky, do you always have a gun on you? guest: i will not disclose, but that is the benefit of having a concealed carry weapon because there is a moment of surprise. unless it is a star or police officer -- unless it is a spouse or a police officer, i do not brandish my weapon or tell anyone if i have a weapon on me. host: would you have brought a weapon to a baseball practice if you are going to play baseball? guest: i would have had it in my car. when i am back in kentucky, i do. the other thing is my bill would extend reciprocity to any citizen, not just to congressman. , forack in the district instance, my staff carry firearms.
and at the baseball practice, there was congressional staff that were not playing baseball that could have been armed, just like back in my district. now, i was not at the baseball game, but i talked with five of my colleagues who do have concealed carry permits, and some of them believe that the outcome could have been very different if they or their staff could have carried that day. it is important to note that the shooting happened in virginia. in virginia has reciprocity with other states. they will recognize any state's concealed carry permit, but for practical purposes, these congressmen and the staff could not carry that day because they started their day in washington d.c. when he woke up. traveled to virginia for the practice and then they were going to return to washington d.c. and so, for all practical purposes, they were prevented
them carry a firearm because washington d.c. did not allow them to carry. host: talk about your experience with getting this concealed carry permit? how do have to go about it? guest: the state of kentucky were ours a class can compete in a day and it has and arrange component where you have to qualify with a weapon. there is a target you have to hit. so you learn about the laws. they do not teach you tactics, but they teach about the loss you go to, and then the range and demonstrate proficiency. that point, they issue you a conceal carry permit. host: how long is the permit good for? guest: for a few years. it is honored and 70% of the
states in the united states. host: how often do you go back to the range to stay proficient in handling your gun? guest: in louisville, kentucky, sometimes your range is your backyard. i was at the range this weekend, which is my backyard, with a very safe backstop. i live on a farm. host: so you practice often was to mark guest? guest: absolutely. you never know what is going to happen, but also to gain proficiency. and then oftentimes i shoot with my children. they enjoy shooting and i would like for them to be proficient with firearms, and practice safety as well. -- and we practice safety as well. host: have you and your children been threatened? guest: i have not received any serious threats, but there has been threatened my district office.
we occasionally get shady characters who show up. and we have had to call local law enforcement. i continue, my staff in the district does carry firearms. host: have they ever had to display? guest: no. they have never brandished a weapon in the district. it has never gone to that point. host: the congresswoman who represents the district of columbia said, representative thomas massie is shamefully using the district to move the goal towards national conceal carry reciprocity. if you wish to to his principal, he would introduce a bill to allow guns in the capitol complex and other federal buildings. at a time were numbers have to come together -- members need to come together, thomas massie is byng after the opposite
going after the gun safety laws that protect d.c. residence. guest: in itself, it is inexcusable. some people who were at the ballpark is in being shot at could not defend themselves who were sitting ducks. it is not political fodder. this is the solution to a real problem. jurisdiction,bout you know, she implies that our jurisdiction over washington d.c. ends at the capitol grounds. she should consult the constitution. the founding fathers were very wise. they anticipated a scenario where they would be meeting to gather in the city, the federal city, which they anticipated. and they wanted to make sure that the laws of that city, in which they met were controlled by them, and not some other you read the, if founding documents, they were
pretty prophetic. this is the exact case they anticipated, ok? we are members of congress representing 50 states and we are coming to this city. and the existing laws of this city are compromising our safety. and so, that is why the constitution says very clearly, that congress shall be in charge of all the legislation and the laws over the capitals. host: let's go to edward in new jersey, a republican. good morning to you. caller: yes, my comment is basically about the idea of gerrymandering and the people's voting being subverted. guns, you willng be needing armored vehicles if you keep subverting the will of the people. that is the real issue. host: edward, i think you are getting at animosity towards
congressman or washington? thereistrict that is out that people who are sent out here are not working on behalf of americans. guest: let me be clear, my bill extends to everybody, not just congressman. i think it is important to point out that the second amendment is not a privilege we grant to certain classes of people. it is an innate right that everyone is one of the right for personal protection and to defend themselves. the caller gets to a point i hear a lot. and i think it is a dangerous point that the media, not c-span, but the media is complicit in advancing, and that is the question -- and that is to question the legitimacy of our electoral system, and also the election of congressman. he mentioned gerrymandering. gerrymandering, by invoking
that, what he is saying is that he does not trust the election process. somehow he things that republicans are in charge because of the way that the lines were drawn. and i do not agree with that. it is certainly not the case in kentucky. we have five republicans and one there isucky, and literally no way you could draw the lines to get two democrats from kentucky. it is gerrymandered to protect the fact that there will be one democrat from kentucky. so, i think it is important for me to to tone down the rhetoric that it of the presidential race was illegitimate, or the congressional majority is illegitimate. because i think that leaves to the animosity that we are here we weremately, whereas elected, and the system worked, and i have faith in the elected system. host: let's go to ron and
vermont. caller: hi, representative thomas massie. i am not impressed with the republicans and democrats. burma has 50,000 -- vermont has 50,000 less people than the district of columbia, you referenced the constitution, but what about representation -- representation -- taxation without representation. eleanor norton cannot vote, so maybe they shouldn't d.c. to kentucky, and you could become a delegate? why are you imposing a law on the district when they don't have representatives to vote for them? why don't you worry about your own state that a telling d.c. what to do? guest: when i came to washington, i swore an oath to the constitution. it is that simple. the founding fathers anticipated that it would be better to have the federal city under the
jurisdiction of congress than to have it at thomas or under its own -- to have it autonomous or under its own state. there have been conversations about having 600,000 people in the federal city. i would be open to discussions about if maryland virginia wanted to end next part of the city, but the reality is that maryland or virginia does not want to do it. it would be a tough sell. , the district of columbia shrunk when some of it went to virginia. but it is the constitution. you can be upset about that, or work on an amendment to the constitution, but that is the reality. the constitution says we are the legislature for washington d.c. host: if the courts were to look at your legislation and look at the second amendment, what part
of the second amendment do you think they would draw on? guest: it is interesting to talk about the courts here because a few years ago, there was a case of washington d.c. versus heller. i know dick heller. officerretired police and very competent to handle a firearm, and they denied him that writing he took it to the supreme court, and he won. court decision, it was narrow, 5-4, but they asserted that the right to keep and bear arms is a right extended to every person. they dispelled this meant you have to belong to a militia to own a gun. that was dispelled. and in doing so, they struck down all of washington d.c.'s gun-control laws. now, washington d.c., the city council tried to write a new set of laws, and those were struck down. they said, we will let you have
a gun, but are not going to let you carry it. which kind of defeats the purpose. that was -- that notion was struck down. and in their latest court ruling that they lost, they did not appeal it to the supreme court. number one, because it was plainly obvious that they were violating constitution. they were taken to the supreme court, it would have been another victory of proponents for the second amendment for reasserting that right. they are on the third version of gun-control laws. they say they will allied to carry a firearm in washington d.c. if you get a permit, but fewer than 200 people have qualified. thresholdn arbitrary that you have to demonstrate to youbody, not elected, that have a fear, legitimate fear of your safe and life. because of the arbitrary
threshold, virtually nobody is getting a permit in washington d.c. host: wood members of congress qualify under that you can show you have been threatened? guest: that is a good question. now do all members of congress qualify as having a legitimate fear of their life? i don't know. do only republicans qualify? do the people on that list that this shooter has, qualify? who qualifies? i think it is dangerous to try to adjudicate your constitutional rights with some bureaucracy and apply arbitrary thresholds. it will be interesting to see what happens in the courts. i think what they are doing right now was unconstitutional and washington d.c. host: let's go to nancy in omaha, nebraska, a democrat. caller: i have been waiting for c-span to have another segment on the shooting of this congressional person, because i
think some of the facts about it are not being looked at. this people who shot at this congressman also had foster children. i saw an article that some of them were subjected to different kinds of violence. how is this man who actually was very troubled able to foster children? that is one thing. carry,as the conceal and i think it was in kentucky when i was driving. i went to a fast food restaurant and someone, i guess it is legal for them to carry weapons, and he had a rollover on his hip. what about my rights as an american to go into a store and not be subjected to people with all of these weapons? when we talk about the second amendment right, it is always people's rights to have guns. what about my rights to go somewhere and not have people concealing weapons, or you know,
having these guns? lastly, i think it was this person in minnesota who had a concealed weapon, and he was shot by the police, even after notifying them that he had a weapon. so, i think it is very dangerous for people to carry these concealed carry speared -- conceal carry. guest: you are right, kentucky is an open carry state, which means you don't need permission to carry a firearm if it is not concealed. some people practice that right, but the reality is if you were in a grocery store, and you saw somebody with an open carry weapon, you probably want to buy a dozen people who have a concealed carry weapon. because of that, when you were in kentucky, you were in a safe spot, in my opinion. if some i came into that establishment and they would have to think twice about
starting to shoot people, or to even commit a robbery, any act of violence if they saw that man with a weapon. now, the problem with open carry is you went to become the first target is somebody comes in their. so, concealed carry is more effective at her venting gun violence and allowing -- effective at preventing gun violence without allowing someone to announce themselves as a target. there is always new legislation coming up in the states that allow you to carry a concealed firearm without a permit, and that is called constitutional carry. i am hopeful we will get that in kentucky because i support that. i support the notion, even though the bill we are talking about today doesn't have that in it, but i support the notion that you should not even have to ask for the right to carry a weapon could -- weapon. host: you shouldn't have to
prove proficiency or safety? guest: no, you should not have to ask the government for this right. [laughter] guest: you seem incredulous. host: i am wondering about the caller's point about her safety. intoxpressed fear of going a grocery store, and your follow up being people shouldn't -- in your follow up is that you don't believe that people should have to go to the government to ask for proficiency tasting --efficiency testing. fees: all of that and the involved, number one, it is regressive. if you have a job or you have to work every day, it is hard to get time off. so those fees and requirements affect the poor first. so, you have fewer people that are able to carry. and then the other thing with having arbitrary requirements
that the government sets is what you see in washington d.c. were they issue less than 200 permits because they have established some threshold that they think you should meet, which is demonstrating your of your life. in order to qualify to exercise your second minute right. when would just say that you are in a state that has a lot of conceal carry holders, you are in a much safer condition. by steveupdate scalise, whose condition was critical is now stable. this piece this morning in roll call about them being updated to fair condition as he continues his recovery at a hospital here. guest: that is wonderful, really. we are all pulling for him. i hope we do not forget soon what happened just a week ago.
i mean, i feel like there is so little coverage of it now, and this was a big event, and it could have been much worse. and we are all thankful that he was at the -- had received one phone call saying we need to get the capital, when he left, the security detail would've left with him. according to the members of congress that i have spoken with, it would've been a bloodbath if that security detail had not been there and acted heroically and stopping the shooter. one of the things that i have learned from talking to other members of congress is the shooter discharged a lot of rounds, and a lot of them missed their target. the reason for that is he was being shot at. todid not have the ability stand there and take time, and
taking my two people. he was constantly being pushed back by the gunfire from the capital hill police. ,f they had not been there making it very difficult for him to get accurate shots off, there would have been lots of casualties. host: letter from debbie from albuquerque, new mexico. hi, debbie. caller: i have a question. have you ever been in the military? caller: i have not. -- guest: i have not. , no disrespect, but you seem to have a cavalier attitude on shooting another human being. it is not as easy as shooting a deer. a lot of people who came back from the military shooting other human beings, their head is not on right. this idea that everybody can shoot other people, you make it sound so easy.
you seem to forget the fear factor. you said everybody in your family is trained to do this, but if you have never shot another human being, it is not as easy as you seem to do and i think you are mistaken. the idea thatrify everybody is going to be armed, i would not want to live in the united states if that is how it is going to be. and republicans are pushing that, and that is scary. i will take your comment off-line. guest: ok. i hope to never have to shoot anybody. i think it would be a very difficult decision for me to have to make, and i would only do it if i feel like my life were in danger, or one of my family members, or an immediate person in my vicinity. it would be a very difficult thing to do. we have to keep that in mind when you think about the police officers that were acting so heroically. even most police officers never have to do that.
we should keep that in mind, too, what they are going through. they had to shoot another human being to stop this heinous act. -- youu know, i cannot are right, i cannot guarantee what i would do in that situation, but you have to be resolved. if you brandished a firearm, you have to be resolved to return fire, or you are just making the situation worse. , a republican in new york. go ahead. caller: i am curious, where are we with hr 38. he said he would sign it when he would get into office and i'm curious as to where this is right now. furthermore, i with rather have a gun and not needed than needed and not have it.
states, but it doesn't cover the district of columbia. it has about 200 co-sponsors, i believe. in fact, i believe three co-sponsors. by the way, if i could get my offers the floor, which reciprocity from dc to the would have ieve we several thousand democrats who vote for it, that is just a hunch based on a gun legislation to the floor three years ago. democrats that voted for that, that was to defund washington, d.c.'s what i unconstitutional gun control laws.
200 has roughly co-sponsors, it is a bipartisan ill, it would require reciprocity between all of the states. i would love to see the day you in any state. it is difficult to travel from one state to the other state you goncealed weapon, if through states or jurisdictions that don't allow that. here is a federal protection passed in 1986, that says as unloaded, notun is accessible and separate from the ammuniti ammunition, by the way, look up that law before you practice as you satisfyng certain requirements, cutravel through jurisdictions, where would otherwise be illegal, but that is not enough inconvenient and almost impossible to cross a have to get would reassemble how you're traveling with the firearm and then go back to
conceal carry when you get to other jurisdiction. so i think there does need to be people e protection for that travel inter-state and i concealed to see carry with permit to be or to be any to carry in jurisdiction. host: our time is up, congressman, thank you for the conversation. congressman it, thomas massie, republican from kentucky. being here. we're going to take a short break, come back and switch turn our attention to another limit, that is debate coming up around the corner. we'll talk about that and what is being proposed on capitol hill. we'll be right back. >> this weekend on book t.v. on c-span 2, saturday noon eastern
the franklin roosevelt library and museum in new york, reading l roosevelt festival, featuring presentations about president era velt and roosevelt politics, including steve tumey and can the countdown to pearl osh," geraldine hawkins, story of a father and daughter in the guilded age," catherine smith and her book and joseph eper," final battle, last month of franklin roosevelt," conversationstern, talize st-selling author from his home in new york city. >> the books i published in the last couple years are the same odd characters written by an 84 or 85-year-old guy that 24 or 25-year-old guy was writing about when i was that age. talks about his
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