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tv   Washington Journal 10142017  CSPAN  October 14, 2017 7:00am-10:03am EDT

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rona kobell. ♪ morning, saturday, october 14 2017. the deadliest drug epidemic in the nation's history. the opioid crisis. experts say the number of americans of using opioids is skyrocketing. so is the number of deaths. 2016 more than 64,000 people died of drug overdoses in america with synthetic opioids, hurry on, and comment -- heroin, and painkillers topping the list of causes. the devastating effects of opioid abuse rippling for families and neighborhoods across the country. we will get to the news of the week later but now a question for you -- what is the effect of
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the opioid crisis in your community? if you live in eastern and central time zones, call 202-748-8000. mountain and pacific region, call 202-748-8001. if you have been personally affected by the opioid crisis, call 202-748-8002. andocial media @cspanwj facebook.com/c-span. we want to hear your stories about how the opioid crisis has affected you in your community. the chart from the cdc is an overview of the epidemic. you see the numbers spiking among men and women of all races and of all age groups. -- 2011rom overdoses of and continuing to present-day. statistic, that
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conveys the sheer scale of the u.s. opioid crisis. they say in west virginia officials has spent nearly $1 million on the transportation of corpses in the fiscal year ending june 30. they told a newspaper that the number of body transports nearly doubled from 2015 to 27th -- 2017 at 880 people died in the state of overdoses last year, the highest rate in the u.s. and in ballmer had to come out of retirement. , spokeessman, republican about the opioid epidemic in his state and a visit this past week by first lady melania trump who visited a clinic that helps abuse. get off of drug they were exposed to drugs while in the womb. >> my home state of west virginia is ground zero for the opioid epidemic.
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west virginia has the nation's highest overdose rate and the highest rate of newborns exposed to opioids and other drugs known as neonatal abstinence syndrome. from this tragic epidemic, has come an exceptional response from communities across my state . coming together to find solutions. one shining example is a unique facility that is specialized in treating newborns suffering from nas. i was proud to work with nurses and a passionate community placer to start lilly's after they and we saw a dramatic rise in newborns with nas. lly's place has been operating for three years and has cared for more than 190 precious newborns. it has brought national attention to west virginia
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solutions. just yesterday, the first lady, melania trump, visited lily's place inmy hometown -- my hometown to talk to caregivers about helping the most vulnerable in our society. it places a great environment with care from doctors and nurses in a nurturing setting conducive to recovery. mothers and families including in the healing process. have hadace and others ,truggles dealing with cms making it harder to replicate this model. that led to my introduction of the nurturing and supporting healthy babies act. last year, through this committee's work, my legislation was incorporated which became law and was passed. thank you for your work. host: let's go to the phones where we have joe calling from georgia. that morning, joe.
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caller: i love c-span and have been calling your great network for 30 years. the key isnity and to get away, we have a budget and we think if you give young people's goals and get them fired up and motivated about goals and being successful and encourage them. purdue, hele, david is helping us with a project and the idea behind it is to motivate and inspire young people and encourage them to find goals. if you are trying to do good for the country and help other people, you will not have time for drugs. that is the key with your project and people like also pool, david purdue, and others, working to fire up young people. i initiated a bunch of people yesterday, sharp, young people.
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get them talking about goals and fired up and energized. then they will not have time to think about drugs. it is a serious problem and that is how we will address it, by getting to these young people and motivating them to get involved and worthwhile projects and establish goals. that is our way to combat the drug problem. host: let's go to dallas, texas, christine calling who has been affected by the opioid crisis. how is that? has been affected for about 10 years. in and out of rehab. anything helost ever gains in life. but he is coming to the realization that he cannot do that anymore. he had a choice between life and
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death several times. the last time, i think he chose life. host: was your son using prescription think dollars or prescription -- painkillers or illegal drugs? caller: it changed, it started with stealing other people's parents painkillers and it went meth and other things. it started just from taking some other opioids. host: how did he get help? caller: he went through -- in one year, at four different treatment centers.
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some which helped a little. some which hurt him more than helped. he finally ended up in a place , far away from us in dallas. arizonathat program in ready.one, he was two, they had a good plan. he has been sober five months. he is doing the right thing. he has a job and is working for goals. i would like to get him into a place in with other people that are -- he is very smart. fortunately, it has not affected his brain too much.
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he is very smart and he can speak well. and he can articulate. toould really like for him get involved in some kind of outreach. he may not be ready for that yet. but in time. --ant to plan things for his what he might be able to do and give him options. i do not ever want him to feel stuck again. which is why i think he got into it in the first voice. -- place. host: ray from worchester, massachusetts. timer: i experienced a where i was on oxycontin for pain on an injury i had for my ankle, five years ago i broke my ankle. in rehab, they gave me physical
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therapy and they suggested when i went home in a wheelchair, i live alone, the doctor told me that when this box of oxycodone goes away, you should not get more. i called my doctor who later put me on another medication when it ran out. i forget the name, a narcotic but not an opioid. i took that for three months and the pain was terrible. they suggested physical therapy because i wanted to get back to work. i did the physical therapy and it was hard. i went through it for three months. at aurned to work, i work car wash and am on my feet all day. wo per day fort the last five years for pain.
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i could have kept taking the oxycodone but it was starting to get to where it did not affect my pain. i am glad i did not get addicted. i see neighbors addicted to opioids in my neighborhood. some guys younger than me do not get out of their house unless they go to pick up their dope from the opioid guy. -- some of country the people in thing need to suck it up and go through therapy, if they want to continue with a reasonably regular lifestyle. that is all i got. host: we talked about west virginia earlier. virginia on west the life or folks who have been affected by all of this. good morning, darwin. caller: how are you doing? host: good, how are you? caller: not bad.
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i was going through a depression. nobody was helping me. i lost my job and my daughter. i lost everything. overcame it and my family helped me. license.drivers i got my life back together. i got into a car accident. it.t a month in jail over i wanted to see my daughter. i want to say that, i think communities in west virginia should do a lot more to help young people like me. i am 24. when it affected me, i was 22. it was hard.
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the property is hard sometimes. host: are you doing better? , iler: yes, i have my place pay $750 per month in rent, kind of five but i split it three ways with roommates. i have a job, thanks to kelly services. half my paycheck goes to charles support and a woman in my life now -- child support and i have a woman in my life who has been with me one year and six months , nohe refuses to leave me matter how hardheaded i am. the world loves me again. it is a lot to overcome. host: good luck to you, darwin. let's go back to illinois, talking with john from decatur, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. i hate to be so rude this morning but, do you recall in
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the mid-1980's, 1990's when the crack was acting crazy in the neighborhood and the black neighborhood? only thing people said was, lock them up. now that it is any suburbs, in country towns, and everybody is sick, they have to get treatment. what the hell is going on, america? have a good day. host: he brings up something if you are right on twitter, interesting how differently the u.s. is approaching this opioid crisis from the 1980's crack epidemic. post,y from huffington when a drug epidemic hits white america addiction became a disease. by a contributor to having deposed. it says the opioid epidemic has recently been met with creativity and heart, the crack
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epidemic of the 1980's was met with scorn and punishment. the rhetoric around crack they did them as wild animals and predators who need to be brought to heel. it was easier to lawmakers, pundits and the like to separate from the crisis as nearly all of them were white and well-off. the crack epidemic most exquisitely effective people of color living in poor neighborhoods, a problem of a netherworld. it made it far easier to implement or akoni and policies that actively dehumanized -- draconian policies that actively dehumanized those affected. taking your calls on the opioid epidemic. eastern and central time zones, call 202-748-8000. mountain and pacific regions, call 202-748-8001. if you have been personally affected by the opioid crisis, call 202-748-8002. let's get some more calls. stephen calling from new boston, missouri on the line from those affected. good morning.
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caller: hello? host: you are on the air. caller: i was just going to say, the way the law had treated it, they would arrest -- my nephew got arrested for a small amount of heroin and they made it worst by the drug court. they got him into a methadone clinic and they continue to give him methadone and more methadone until he almost overdosed. once they locked him up and got him away from it, whenever he was released, he went to meth and has been in and out of jail --a three times because of every time he would try to get off the methadone, they would make him take the classes again and give him more methadone. like i said, the doctors were handing it out way too easily. that was back years ago.
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it is still not got that much better. host: you mentioned the doctors, , theyy from vox interviewed claire mccaskill about this and she told him that i believe we are reaching a tipping point where pharma, legendary for its power on capitol hill should look over their shoulder and wonder whether or not they have gone too far in terms of conduct. she said that her investigation into the opioid epidemic -- she described it, drug companies aggressively marketed opioids, sometimes committing fraud to get doctors to prescribe drugs. let's go back to the phones. gabrielle calling from oxnard, california on the line for those affected. good morning. glad i gotlo, i am to c-span, which i adore. i am affected in several ways, i
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have been in chronic pain since 1980, i was in an accident. i have had for spinal operations. spinal operations and i have been fighting pain ever since. the only thing that keeps me going is my ability to have pain relief from opioids and nothing else works. i tried everything else will -- i tried everything else, the therapies. i am living in terror because i sense my doctor -- you still need these, yes, after 30 years i still need them and i responsibly take the medication. they keep the pain down enough so that i can function. feel sorry for people who are choosing to abuse. they are bored. they do not have anything to do, maybe, they are sad. a fellow earlier said he had a broken ankle and was in pain, i broke michael and was in pain and the back pain is a whole
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different universe of pain. think, every time this topic comes up, there should be somebody saying something for the people who really need these drugs. and whose lives would be destroyed if they could not take these drugs anymore. that is keeping me up at night for many months, since the crisis hit. thank you. ted from talk with oregon on the line for those impacted. good morning. caller: good morning sir. my first wife was hopelessly addicted to oxycontin. it was one of the worst times of my entire life. i feel for the poor lady from california that is in pain. however, i do not believe it for a new york minute. i will tell you why. i was a plumber all my life. . have not a single pain
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i spent most of my time working in hospitals, running nitrous oxygen inical vacuum, the hospital situation. i found that, when the drug companies would show up in a big hospital, they would give away prices and money and trips to the medicos that were prescribing the units of their product. i found that shocking. i find it shocking -- i did not get my news from the american news outlets. i am an old veteran. japan, dwc, nhk from from germany. i find it shocking that i had to learn on for a news that there has -- foreign news, there has been 5000 medicos arrested, convicted, and taken away their license in this country. i have never heard that on
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american news. it lets you know how strongly -- strongly a -- strong the ama is. host: someone writes, how about prevention, tax opioid producers to fund treatment and incentivize pharma to find alternate bid massapequa, new york, priscilla on the line. good morning. caller: good morning. taking an opioid prescription as a result of knee replacement. it on the recommendation of my doctor, of course. spent a better part of 30 days in rehab. when i came home, the prescription continued. a visiting nurse said, come off the tablets and ask your doctor
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to get you something less strong. i went to my doctor for a follow-up visit and he said, i am the doctor, you need this prescription strong because the physical therapy is very important to your knee function. i have many nephews and nieces in the medical profession. i was on the phone with my nephew-doctor. i mention what i was taking, he said -- that all that prescription now. that is a gateway to heroin. you do not need it, there are other things you can use. as a result of his recommendation, i slowly got myself off. it was the hardest thing i have ever done. as a result of getting off at the very end of that process -- host: you did it on your own?
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caller: i did it on my own. at the end of the process i thought i had the flu. it was not the flu, it was withdrawal. it took five days of flulike symptoms, sweating it out, etc. aspirin and other over-the-counter products. i cannot imagine what it would be like for a person with an addictive personality to come off that medication. i was very strict about it. diary-journal, a what i was taking when i was home. theuld measure out stepped-up process myself. i have to tell you, it was very enlightening. now that i see this opioid crisis is taking place, i now
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look at the open your crisis with a different -- opioid crisis with a different set of a. -- set of eyes. i do not know what rehabilitation would be for someone with knee surgery as it was very painful but there must be some other way. there are other medications on the market that seem to spend lots of money advertising for them. when you go to use them. they are very effective. they have spent all their money on advertising and the product itself could cost out-of-pocket about $4000 per month, which is ridiculous. i think a pharmacy -- the pharmaceutical industry needs to take a really, really close look at what is happening. i am a patient. i did not go to medical school. i do not know what this opioid description is.
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i do not know the name -- the generic name -- the real name -- who the company is -- where it came from. i just know, when my nephew brought it to my attention, i took a serious look in the mirror and listen to what he had to say. he is a doctor. i stepped down. it was very hard. host: did you switch doctors? caller: the knee replacement is a one-shot deal. i have no reason to take the next step for that. the knee replacement was very painful. it is not likely i would do the surgery again to the other knee. host: west monroe, louisiana, sherry is on the line. caller: hello, how are you? host: fine, how are you? eight, i had bad surgery or nine years ago.
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i had a couple effusions and a couple of screws -- a couple of fusions and a couple of screws and rods. understaffed -- understep to the opioid. then i had a bad fall and had to go back and have surgery again. with more fusions. they kept the rods in. more screws. and a herniated disc to top it off. i have gotten myself down to oxycodone.rams of not the oxycontin. but the oxycodone. , in i had this last surgery had to go back up, because it was so painful.
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i am in much pain now. hip fracture when i fell. i have all of these fusions in my back. i am 70 years old. so, what is an alternative to this? , but i like to go down cannot hardly move. i have to pick myself up by my gown in the bid to move over -- bed to move over. my body will not move. i cannot do anything. what does a person in my do?tion -- at my age,
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i do not want to be on these. the narco does not help. i am on the next thing above narco. .here are other drugs they say that that is just as bad. i do not want to be on that. host: she makes the point that she is looking for an alternative. a story from the new york times that says -- at a time when the united states has an opioid epidemic, many insurers are limiting access to pain medications that carry a lower risk of addiction or dependence, even as they provide comparatively easy access to generic opioid medication's. the reason experts say is opioid drugs are generally cheap all safer alternatives are often more expensive. try to makers and pharmaceutical distributors, pharmacies, doctors, have come under
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scrutiny that the role that ensures any pharmacy benefit managers that run their drug plans have played in the opioid crisis has received less attention. that may be changing. here is congressman peter welch, a democrat at large from vermont. here he is talking about how the of your crisis has affected his state of vermont. >> our prescription drug problems with individuals --reased from .477 in 2012 by 80%, heroine went from 913 and 2012 an increase to 3488 -- a 380% increase. every story is family heartache. i got a letter from a mother whose 27-year-old son became addicted to heroin. a story of him being homeless and going from being a full-time working person to being on the street and her having to call her daughters and say the
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brother may soon be dead. it is real and all too vivid. .his is a big challenge our job in congress is to come up with policies to help people help themselves. i would like to make a few suggestions. we have to have funding. we have to have full funding for the comprehensive addiction and recovery act. we have to find the money to allow our communities to do the work. we have to also have more resources into alternative treatment. i am working to try to get a comprehensive addiction and recovery act to find better alternatives to treat pain. three, allow for partial feeling of opioid subscriptions. many of us have signed letters to allow that to happen. let's also support the recent action by commissioner gottlieb, he has done good things. -- trying toease
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get immediate release opioid manufacturers to follow a more stringent set of requirements, which includes training doctors to safely prescribed these drugs. this hearing is tremendous, focusing attention. the next step is to put this into legislative action. thank you, mr. chairman and host: lonnie from harvey, illinois. good morning. caller: good morning. i had an issue with -- a racial thing for a minute. i have been on everything that is -- there is as far as opioids. from past injuries. sometimes they pharmacy.he i know pharmacists that hate giving out -- it is a job for
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them, when the pharmacies have to deal with opioid patients and their prescriptions. rules, regulations. it is totally a problem. it is not the pharmacies fault. it is the government. that is what brings me to the addictions -- i live through cocaine. it is not a racial thing. everything these days is racial, racial this. the president and all of that. opioid is not a racial thing. guilty of letting the pharmacies make a killing off the pills they make. they control what they make and what is controlled in this country.
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crack like they used to where i live. i do not see it as a racial thing, i see it as a government thing trying to make up for years that they made a killing off of these drugs. these patients -- and a lot of them like me -- i got hurt. they put me on this. because the government -- not the government -- the ones that make it, they go and push for these certain drugs. right now, i guarantee it, -- i have lived through so much. through the 1970's, 1980's, i have seen the progress of what goes on. host: newsweek has a story titled how the v.a. is killing
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thousands of veterans. the grim irony in the statistics of the number of deaths because the department of veterans affairs has played a little discussed role in fueling the opioid epidemic killing civilians and veterans. in 2011, veterans were twice as likely to die from accidental opioid overdoses as nonveterans. one reason an exhaustive investigation found is that for over one decade, the veterans and missions overprescribed opioids and psychiatric medications and it has swung dangerously in the other direction since 2012 with a drastic cut boy -- cutback of opioids for pain patients but it is bungling the patients and putting veterans at risk. for richie, florida, marie is on the line calling on the line for those affected by all of this. caller: good morning. i am 62 years old and calling in to let you know the other side
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of -- patients in chronic pain. x-raysall the mri's and to show the different pain in my body. i have been on percocet for eight years. i am on the highest those i can be on. i am on a fentanyl patch, the highest those taken give me and i am still in thing -- highest those they can give me and i am still in pain. sometimes, nothing stops the pain. i go to a paid management dr. who is also a back surgery, a spine surgeon, he is very good. we were talking about -- it is time to come off the percocet because it is not working and he cannot give me anything higher. he looked at my health insurance and said i am sorry i have to treat you with generic because your health insurance does not cover anything else. he can put something in your back and ear to help stop the
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pain but i cannot use it because of my health insurance. that is about as wrong as wrong can be. i know i have an addiction, i have been on it for eight years. governor scott in the state of florida is talking about, you can only get a three day script for opioids. i own -- i understand the problems also understand the elderly people and patients with cancer -- what are we supposed to do? lay in bed and wait to die? i am blaming a lot of this on health insurance now that i found out he cannot treat me with anything but medicine. . have so many medical problems i cannot interact a lot of medicines. we cannot play around that way. aboutoing to talk to him getting me off of it because it is not working and i am hurting my body by taking it. i am addicted to it.
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i would like to thank you for listening to me. not everyone that takes these medicines are dry. -- drug addicts. i need more because it is not working. you start out at 2.5 milligrams ago to 5, 7 .5, then 10. after eight years, does not work. something else needs to be done and it is not our fault. thank you and have a great day. host: similar comments, karen on twitter right, as someone who lives daily with pain, i have simply for those who have used a medications, it is tough to acknowledge addiction. from michigan.n good morning. caller: the morning. -- good morning. a dog iine, i have found the day after christmas in flint. we will go out, even though i am
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60, wii will go on the cross-country ski trail, 5k. my biggest concern is i will fault because he is robust. i will go for a bike ride and then go to work. i work directly with medicine and do not want to go into the depth of that. there is a problem with over prescription. my mother had two knee replacements, the second one she called and i said i am coming up , i was working at the facility than. she was pretty wild on the pain medicine. they were talking about me and i should stand outside the room. she did not stay on it. she was on multiple drugs because her health was not that great throughout her life. once she started to have kids. downtime is troubled time. people need good and strong employment. we have the we await here and
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every year it increases in volume. people biking. a lot of people my age because they seem to have more time. it is great and that is what we need to push, healthy endeavors, full employment for our populations with strong wages. society will become healthier. when you do not have a job, and you are poverty-stricken, you will try to escape. that is normal and that you want to feel good. we have to have a certain level of happiness. we have to have stress and happiness. thised to do a lot in country because this is the worst i have seen it in all my years of living. house minority leader nancy pelosi made a rare appearance this week, testifying about the importance of addressing the open your crisis. >> opioid addiction is a public health catastrophe and is
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growing more dire and deadly everyday. i believe that it is important for us to respond to this national emergency with the seriousness and urgency it requires. fortunately, we have had bipartisanship in passing legislation -- comprehensive addiction and recovery act. we came together to join the bipartisan legislation that was passed -- the 21st centuries to your act that people were so happy -- cure act that people were so happy with the words and their families who have lost a child, a young teenager, 21-year-old within a matter of days or weeks before that particular signing. president obama signed the legislation. it had the language, it just had not had the money to the adequate extent and that is my
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appeal to you for our democrats and republicans to work together to have the funding to fund the key initiatives authorized in the bill. i want to make a pitch for acaicaid, on the progress of medicaid expansion has provided a vital lifeline for american struggling with addiction. as the governor of ohio, our former colleague john kasich, noticed, thing got we expanded medicaid because that money is helping to rehab people. 19 states have not taken that step. we stand ready to work with you, mr. chairman, in good faith with republicans to update and improve the aca but are vigilant against efforts to gut medicaid because it will create more of a problem in terms of an opioid, just to name one thing. the opioid epidemic is a challenge to the country.
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get america'sly families the prevention, treatment, resources they need. we must work with providers in the pharmaceutical industry to push effective prevention measures to reduce unnecessary prescriptions and stop this epidemic at the source. host: rudy calling in from fort wayne, indiana. good morning. caller: how are you? host: good, how are you? caller: i am looking out the window at this beautiful morning and ready for my walk in nature to reduce my stress. i am a nurse-surgeon. i live this life. personally, i do not think much will change. until we change the definition of pain. we are creating a lot of legal attics. doctors are doing it by writing these prescriptions longer than should be. i appreciate the comments of the
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people calling in, who clearly are now addicted to the medications. host: when you say change the definition of pain, what the main, some people should just -- what do you mean, some people should bear it? while people with a crippling pain should get medication? caller: and one of my books, i made up a name for them so we do not give them -- if you get a heart attack or a broken leg or cancer, you can take a pain narcotic. they do not work for a month anyway but for cancer, maybe unlimited. it may be a serious shoulder problem for a short-term. the other people, the doctor needs to ask, what is going on in your life? so it is not stress. i called in the metabolic people. i am not being punitive. if you give narcotics to the metabolic people, you will turn
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them into attics and we doctors all doing it all day long. people take the opioids to feel good and i do not -- i do not blame people being addicted, it is not their fault as they are down and do not want to hide. they just want a day to deal decent. you see people who have called in. you have a fantastic program going on. host: thank you. caller: they just want to feel good and i do not blame them. we have to do massage, exercise to manufacture your own endorphins, our own body makes endorphins. steroids. they make us feel good. my -- in myin second book on amazon, we need
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to redefine it. it was a good thing i called -- thought of, i call them m people, they do not get narcotics. peopleimprisoning the because we have so many legal alex -- legal addicts. doctors creating legal addicts. we need to stop that as we are imprisoning these black people who are selling some of the drugs to us. it is not their fault. a lot of them are addicted too. i agree with the caller who said we are imprisoning the people. host: let's hear from caroline calling from washington, d.c. she has been affected by the opioid crisis. how? caller: how are you?
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host: fine, how are you? caller: i agree with the caller before me. i have been affected. helpedthe doctors that me get affected but i take a lot of responsibility for what happened. prescriptions and she wrote more and more. i asked for them because i was not taking them right and that is how you get addicted, if you do not follow the prescription, you will get addicted. if you take more than what is prescribed. she gave them to me. she got a letter from my insurance company, telling her to stop or telling her i was doctor shopping. i was not only seeing her. she told me how to go into the pharmacy and get it without going through my insurance by paying cash. she told me what to do. her name is dr. dobbins in laurel, maryland. as a result, that was 2005, i
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was on methadone as of a couple of months ago. i used to take 300 of those pills per day. 10 milligrams. someone call me you will die. host: 300 pills a day? caller: 300 of the methadone, not only the methadone but receiving oxycodone. just took i have now me off of the methadone. -- maybe i went from one thing to another but now i take medical marijuana. i have a severe back issue. i have nerve damage. i take medical marijuana. i did not take the methadone anymore. i do not take the oxycodone. i was taking percocet, oxycodone, and the doctors were giving me all that. and also the people
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-- people need to understand for their loved ones, they will not stop until they make up in their minds that they are ready to stop. that is anything, i do not care what you do and what treatment they get. i am from the crack era. and washington, d.c., how they flooded our community with crack. a lot of us got addicted. people lost their homes. their homes, properties, children. it is terrible. what is going on in the white communities but this is happening in all communities. people are addicted to drugs and medications. until they make up in their minds that they will stop, they will continue. you could provide support and love which will help, but the person has to make up in their minds. these doctors need to be held accountable because they tell you how to get over -- she told
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me have to go into the store and take -- pay cash, say i do not have insurance and pay cash to get the drugs. that is all i have to say. host: chattanooga, tennessee, james calling in on the line for those affected. good morning, james. good morning -- caller: good morning, c-span. as a vietnam veteran -- a disabled veteran, i am not surprised at what i am hearing. i am 68 years old. at an early age, when i came out of vietnam in 1971, with ailments and sickness, that is all the v.a. would do, pills. anything you had, the veterans of information would give you a tale. my veins -- my main message is
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-- it is an individual's choice. you are given the opportunity to say no. a lot of people get the drugs to sell the drugs and they take the drugs. i think it is a personal choice. here is my point -- it all started one way or another with the government. local government, federal government, state government, certain policies that brought on all of these different situations. that we have all across america. because of the politics and policies of this country, society is all screwed up. they can take the drugs in the neighborhood when they wanted to and they take the drugs out of the neighborhood. racism andsystematic control of the population. surprised at the
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results. because anybody with common sense can sit back and have an open mind and see what this government, local, federal, state, has done -- host: mississippi, robert is on the line. good morning. caller: i had to change doctors. the doctor i have six months, several months ago would not give me any painkillers. he only gave me one per year. i changed doctors. --y put me on narco five at narco and printed all. narcos, he gave me 48 per month. i have not been back to him in three months. i only went and got 48, i got
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another 48. i have about 45 may be left of those. i only take them when i need them, when i have a flareup. knees,arthritis, everything, depression, the whole thing kicks in. he is a wonderful doctor. now, i need to go back to him for another prescription. i do not know what to tell him about the narco because i am afraid if i tell them i have 50 left, he will not give me anymore. i hate to lie. that is what it has come down to. i like to keep something on the side for the flareups of the pain. because it will put me back on my feet. host: are you worried about becoming addicted? caller: i am 72 years old and wondering how it affects older people.
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i am not dependent on it. i think asheville, aspirin. advil, aspirin. i have been robbed of the in my feet and i am wondering what the effective on us older folks is who are responsible in taking the drugs. i get -- my wife could not move a week ago and i gave her one. it put her on her feet and she did not have any pain since. i wonder what the effect on us older people that are responsible and need the drugs. has anybody thought about that? host: let's go to new jersey, clyde -- clyde on the line. caller: thank you for having me on.
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states shouldof have it. i believe this is a major problem. it is not the people who get it legally, it is the people who get a hold of it and use it for drugs. they mix it with heroin. that is the main problem. i cannot blame them. this stuff that costs you to break out in source, people mailing this out through mail-order. i do not think it is right. host: congress has taken steps to address the mail order business. let's hear from congressman bob goodlatte, chairman of the judiciary committee in the house and talking about legislation passed by the opioid crisis. >> according to the northern shenandoah valley substance abuse coalition, they have seen 11 opioid overdoses resulting in four deaths since september 20. making 33 deaths in that portion
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of my district so far this year. recently, i met with a mother in roanoke whose daughter is an opioid addict living off the streets. her concern for her daughter was heartbreaking to hear. i know that every member of congress has heard the stories of bright futures wasted away and live stake into early. that is why we must provide more tools for addicts to reclaim their lives and stop drug traffickers and make our communities safer. we at the judiciary committee have been pleased to work with the committee on energy and commerce. in this fight to combat this epidemic. last year, -- since last year, the the judiciary committee past seven measures to address the multifaceted nature of the opiate epidemic, notably to see the opioid abuse reduction act signed into law last year. this bipartisan legislation
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combats the opioid epidemic by establishing a streamlined, comprehensive opioid abuse grant program, including vital training and resources for first .esponders and law enforcement criminal investigations for the unlawful distribution of opioids , drug and other alternative treatment courts, and residential substance abuse treatment. we have targeted those who traffic in opioids. the transnational drug trafficking at, now law, improves law enforcement's ability to pursue international drug manufacturers, brokers, and distributors in source nations. federal prosecutors can use the important tools in that bill to pursue foreign drug traffickers who are poisoning american citizens. who: a tweet from someone makes a comment about the previous owner who says -- are the doctors who you are blaming not getting the truth from patients like the 70-year-old caller dosing his wife? let's go back to the phone.
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morganville, new jersey, good ellen?, . caller: i am in chronic pain for over 20 years. i cannot take generics as they make me violently ill. i am on brand medicine. it costs a fortune. it pushed me into bankruptcy. i do not have a choice. i do not doctor shop. i do not pharmacy shop. i do not do anything wrong. i write down what i take. i have taken the same amounts of medicine for 20 years. it helps the pain. it helps the pain become less so i can go about -- i cannot work
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anymore. these people that call up and say, i feel bad for their generics but i think have a big part of this. sick., they make me i do not know for other people, maybe that is why they are taking so much medicine. i do not know. but, there are many people like me in chronic pain. i am 63. over 20 years i have been in pain. and i do not overtake the medicine. i sometimes say that, when people get a prescription, it does not matter for what, you need to write down -- when you go to the pharmacy, if you do not have a pen or pencil, ask
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them for one and write down when you take medicine. no matter what you take, you should write it down and the time you take it. so that you know you are not over-taking medicine. maybe then, some of these problems -- but to address everything as a crisis because, for people like me, it is making it harder to go to a doctor to get a prescription. they are afraid. when i have a doctor -- i have had doctors who retired. until i found a new doctor -- because now, doctors are afraid to take you on. they will -- the nurse will say to you, well, if you get sick while in the doctors practice, that is different but we do not want to take on a patient that is sick.
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it is like we are treated like we are aliens. from another planet. like i said, i feel bad for all of these people but there are plenty of people like me in chronic host: final call for the hour comes from dorothy in cleveland, ohio. caller: good morning. host: what is on your mind? um, i have had illness since i was five years old. the first surgery i had to have as a result of it was at the age of 16. now, i affect had numerous surgeries behind that, and i only at that point, but only get prescriptions, you know, directly after surgery.
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i never took the full amount, and i only took the medicine come at that point, when i basically could not stand -- that the medicine, at that point, when i basically could not stand. all that was fine, and as a result of the initial surgery at 16, i get kidney stones every year. all of these things were short-term, the surgeries in the kidney stones, but i didn't take the full amount of the prescription. say 1995, i want to unfortunately, i was hit by a truck from behind while i was sitting in the car. that is like a long-term pain situation. i had no idea the extent that it would go to come about what happened was about seven years later -- would go to, but what
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happened was about seven years later, it was doubling my blood pressure. so i was sent to a pain management clinic located in the hospital. now, i thought the way they handled it was excellent because they used a comprehensive approach. first of all, before they even will prescribe anything for you, you have to have this testing done, and one of the tests that they do is they have you undergo psychological testing to check and see if you are someone with an addictive personality. prescribe to addictive personalities, and that makes the difference. but pain management as a whole, they don't just strictly give you pain medication as a narcotic. they give you breakthrough medications that are not narcotics also, and that was handled excellently, but
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unfortunately, the hospital closed the clinic. people going through this type of comprehensive approach, i don't think that would happen. i am also concerned, in this respect, when people have surgery, especially dependent on how extensive it is, three days of medication or seven days a medication is not going to cover it. i don't want people who have surgery, or cancer, not to be able to get the medication they need for the short period of time it takes for that. but in the to be a comprehensive approach like it was done that -- like it was done in the pain management clinic. host: that was dorothy calling from ohio. the we have steven nelson from "the washington examiner."
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later on, our spotlight of magazine continues with rona kobell, here to talk about on the rise of hemp in kentucky. stay with us . ♪ this weekend on american today atv on c-span3, 6:00 p.m. eastern on the civil war, and author of "for their own cause." assume that is why they chose these black troops because of the mid-19th century, most people believed black men were not counted enough to fight because they weren't brave enough to fight -- believed black men were not brave enough to fight or talented enough to
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fight. >> the indian men are cowboys in spanish and they are dressed really nicely. that shows you the value that missionaries played on the work these cowboys did. that they were allowed to ride horses, and secondly, they dressed really nice. >> and sunday on oral histories, we continue our series on photojournalists with a former w. bush. under george h. >> if i said something about his hair and i took this photo, no one would believe this was set up. so, i just took the photo and wound up running two full pages in the magazine. and over the next 20 years or the best of life
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and classic moments in life, and in 2011, it was selected in the of one of the best photos in the "life" magazine in 25 years. >> american history tv only on c-span3. "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. steven nelson is with us, the white house reporter of the "washington examiner." he is here to talk about the values voters summit in which president trump appeared. here is trump addressing values voters summit the at their gallery --here is 12 addressing the values voters summit. [video clip] how times have
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changed, but you know what, now they are changing back again, just remember that. [applause] back time is changing again, he said. first, what is the values voters summit and why is it significant? guest: it is an annual gathering of social conservatives in washington. it is the 12th annual edition -- n. president trump is the first sitting president to address this conference. it is really an effort to engage religious conservatives in politics and attempt to influence the course of national events. host: and the story that you were -- and the story that you wrote that the president was the first to address. said, that he said i don't even need your vote this year.
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it suggests there is a fairly transactional relationship between the president and evangelicals at large? guest: president trump certainly is no evangelical himself. i think no one in that room think that he is. he has been married three times, and last year, he said he did not care what bathroom caitlyn jenner used at trump tower. this is a matter of shared interest. you need allies to get anything done. and thet trump religious right see i die on various issues -- and the religious right see eye to eye on various issues come and share some of the same believes. folks, do theyo believe the president has delivered in the things he has promised? folks mentioned his successful nomination of neil gorsuch to the supreme court.
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people in the room are thrilled that that happened. he also had predictable applause lines talking about iran being a bad player, talking about calling evil by its name. how platitudes really about the religious belief is going to be more respected in the united states, and how we are going to have increasingly more clarity abroad. all of those talking points were very- well-received by the crowd. figures in the religious right is both yesterday, wore amoore, the twice fired -- one of the key figures in the religious right won several settlements in alabama recently and most likely
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will be the next united states senator from alabama. role in takes his congress, no one really knows. we don't know if he will be proposing bills to re-criminalized homosexuality and outlaw divorce, or if he will be a solid trump ally that pursues the president's policies. time will tell. host: let's go to the phones. tty calling on the line for democrats. caller: good morning to you. night, i on msnbc last heard somebody say that this , you know, considered a , ie group by the southern
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forget the rest of the title of that place, but the southern poverty -- host: law center. caller: right. that is what i was about to say. in the last day or two, i have been crying over some of the things this president is doing. and how can they call themselves christians? would christians take away all of this health care and want people to die because they have no insurance? i mean, this is the most ridiculous thing. and i said a prayer this morning like i do every day that he will office,e removed from or else, i don't think they will use the 25th amendment, that cabinet of his, but -- and these republicans that do not do anything about this man, they are going to be just as guilty as he is. they absolutely refuse.
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if it is i don't know a little off the topic, but , the way he is doing the people in puerto rico, and eugene robinson had a column that said that if he takes away the funds from puerto rico, that is dereliction of duty and he can be removed for that. he is no more christian than the man on the moon. it is absolutely ridiculous. and i don't understand how christian he is. he admitted on the tape he sexually assaulted women. and these christians voted for him? i mean, really? such hypocrisy. i have never seen anything like it in my life? host: what do you think about that? talked to any religious leaders and posed that question? certainly, there are
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plenty are different brands of christianity. the caller is right. the brand that is offered at the values voters summit is foreign to many christians. yesterday, there was a speaker who was well-received, who was talking about how upset you was that there is a lutheran organization accepting government money to help with refugee resettlement, which of course, which would be barely shocking to the members of many mainline protestant churches or catholic churches. but, regarding the southern poverty law center designation, that is finally -- that is very controversial. been looked at as a hate group for demeaning homosexuals. but they are saying from the values voters summit that they are not a hate group.
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the shooter that attacked the headquarters a few years ago, that is a very controversial issue. host: we have kathleen on the line for democrats. i will invite other people to call, too. the line for republicans is 202-748-8001. democrats call 202-748-8000. independents, the number for you is 202-748-8002. caller: that lady from virginia took everything i was going to say, she said it. but my biggest take away with trump is when chris matthews asked him, if he ever asked god to forgive him for anything? and this manner you claim is ich a christian said, no, have never asked dr. forgive me
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because i have never done anything wrong. god tove never asked forgive me because i have never done anything wrong. you told a story. you said trump got elected. that was mitch mcconnell. if it wasn't for mitch mcconnell, he would be elected. god hates a liar. and you guys sit there and entertain the biggest liar. this is my opinion. the biggest liar that god ever put a pair of pants on. god,ver you go to serve you are supposed to set an example. how can you say this person said an example? when he stood up on tv the other day and called black players, son of a b's? in read thego back bible again because you let this man take you away from god's
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teachings, and he is bringing the world into what is supposed to be saved. i don't understand. you need to get back into the bible and help this man. you are not helping him by enabling him. like you said, he has been married three times, pulling women by their private parts. me, don't skip the answer. tell me how you can say he is a christian? host: i don't think that is the point that you were making about his own religious beliefs, correct? guest: no one else can know someone else's religious beliefs. sacredaid the bible is a book, i don't have any reason to question that. did: although he incorrectly call second
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corinthians, two corinthians. let's go to our next caller good caller: good morning to both of you. i have a hard time with the christian community when you often don't criticize, or don't speak up to all of the wrongs that are in this country, but pushnd still, you want to political polities and sway them to your way and forget about the other political ills. when do they utilize the christianity they say they have? youakes no sense to me that would only deal with issues that would only concern your particular people, and anyone else, excusing, the h with them. thank you. guest: you can go many different directions with your religious beliefs and how you feel they should guide public policy. host: do you have a sense about
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how george h.w. bush, who is barely public -- to is very public with his religious beliefs and most aligned with the religious right, do you have a sense in the way in which he approached his policies as opposed to president trump? guest: that is an interesting thing. if you had to pick between donald trump in george h.w. bush, you would say bush is the evangelical. that illy, the issues guess of the day are different. bushdent george h.w. sought compromise on immigration and saw a different outlook on trade then donald trump. there has been criticism of the immigration discussion of america's approach with other countries. there really is a difference there. president trump is ironically a social conservative, but is the
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one speaking to them. host: let's go to apollo, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. i have been enjoying the values voters summit, and especially who i believe was from israel, she did a wonderful job telling us where things are coming, where the refugee programs are being passed, the u.s. catholic services association. they want our tax dollars, but there is a big push by some of these lutherans. and for me to pay for refugees who basically don't belong in this country. i think what trump is trying to do is basically make people more responsible for themselves. and these people that think that my job is to pay for their health insurance. i think they ought to look in the mirror and realizes the government never said you were entitled to health insurance or have someonefor it, so you can tell them exactly what they need to buy. and that is not american.
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and trump is trying to get us out of that. i hope and pray that is what he is doing because people can find other alternatives to their care to a chiropractor in some of the natural ways to get rid of their pain, but they have to spend it out of their own pocket, so whatever the government subsidizes coming keeps raising subsidizes, me -- keeps raising in price for me. you brought a speaker or writer call the dreamland, the true tale of america's opioid epidemic. the author talked about a doctor proctor in ports mouth, ohio, i believe it was. basically, all he said was he gave out the drugs. theirople came out of sailing away with no pain, but you still have pain if you hurt yourself. so go find a natural doctor and stop expecting others to
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subsidize care that you chose while we struggle to try to find money to buy the care we need to choose because it is a path of natural god-given health. good for trump would he did. i hope people pray for him, in jesus name, thank you very much. front,n the health care care to weigh in? guest: i suppose the caller is characteristic of the attendees from the values voters summit. the issue she brought up are the ones you would hear if you were watching the livestream of that event. a variety of socially conservative and politically conservative ideas. host: we should say that sam quinones will be on the program next friday. coverage of the values voters summit continues today at 11:00 a.m. here on c-span.
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former trump advisors steve bannon and former security advisor are scheduled to speak here on c-span at 11:00. let's talk about health care. president trump said we are going to take a different route on health care. let's take a listen to him. [video clip] working very hard and hopefully congress will come through. it is step by step by step. [applause] trump: and that was a far ego big step yesterday -- and that was a big step yesterday, and one by one, we are going to have great health care in our country. we are going to have great health care in our country. we are taking a little different route than we had hoped because getting congress, they forgot what their pledges work. [laughter] pres. trump: so, we are going and different not, but you know what? in the end, it will be just as
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effective, maybe even better. host: maybe even better. what is the president trying to do? guest: the president is trying to do something after congress failed to repeal obama care. the significance of what he has done this week, who knows how that will work out whether it will be a big enough change to allow more competition and more options for health care. he is trying to do something, and it is interesting that he is doing this by his own authority as president being that he criticized his predecessors so much for taking action unilaterally as an executive, but he is trying to do something, embracing an idea making it easier to have associations for health care, health insurance. really, where this goes depends on what congress does. it failed by one vote john
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mccain voting against the effort to repeal obama care. the story is not over here. host: let's go to the phones again. we had mike calling from illinois on the line from -- on the line for independence. good morning, mike. caller: good morning. i would just like to say a few items of things. thank god donald trump as president. i don't care about the messenger. i am concerned about his message. can you imagine if hillary got elected? it would be disastrous. obama was a phony. the first time i heard and saw obama, i knew he was nothing but a slick character, deceitful, line individual. remember what he says, marriage was between a man and a woman. he never believed that. the way he promoted homosexuality. unfortunately, the numbers of
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the u.s. senate supported donald trump is as it should be. as far as the southern poverty law group, they are nothing more than us observance of -- more than a subversive organization that takes a lot of donations. $355 million stuffed away in offshore bank accounts. and thank god that trump is president. in those first to college you two-- and those first callers you had were intellectually stupid. guest: not sure what i have to say about that. host: let's go to roy. on the line for republicans. caller: hello. host: you are on the air. caller: ok. i think what donald trump is done is bringing people from all
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aspects of life. right now, i am watching president trump religious conservatives. i do believe in god, but i am not a religious person. and i think what trump is doing is saying, hey, we all need to come together. my sister owns her own church. trump and i intend to in the next election. i think what he is doing is right. he is trying to bring down the deficit, he is a businessman, he knows how to run a business. and that is what this country is. host: ok. let's go to rich from south bend, indiana. caller: good morning. yeah, trump and the religious
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conservatives. i was raised catholic, so let me remember my catholicism here for a second. thou shalt not commit adultery. it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a poor man to go into heaven. what is so christian about telling the working poor, you do not deserve medicine? it is a privilege -- it is the privilege of the rich. give me a break. trump is playing you religious conservatives like a fiddle. you have bought the brooklyn bridge and he is laughing at you while he is eating caviar and taking your medical insurance away from you. so, in aght-year --
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year when you cannot go to a doctor because you don't have the money, i'm going to be laughing. that there ishink anything that the president can do to create a major fissure that the conservative right backs away from him? guest: that is an interesting thought. i think the religious right knows what they are getting with donald trump. there is not too much left to be assumed on who he is a what his history is. obviously, the scandal of some sort will send them running for the hills, but right now, it certainly appears that donald trump is attempting to make a coalition based on mutual interest with members of the religious right. and so far, both players are happy with this. host: what does the religious right want to see from this
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president? we talked about neil gorsuch and health care, and the president taking a pro-life stance. beyond that, what do they want to see from him? guest: lot of this is more policy. donald trump is going to support what republicans are going to support. the way he says it, the messaging, that is very important and that is what they want, they want to see someone talk about how religious people should have the freedom to do with they please, regardless if he is in a position to support that, they like to hear the messaging. they like to hear that they are israel's friend. it is not necessarily all policy. it is a lot of how you say it, and donald trump is mary -- is very good at saying things that gets in reaction -- that gets a reaction. host: you said that christian
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host: he said yesterday judeo-christian values are under attack. do you have a sentence from people at the summit how much they feel under attack? tide turned on some cultural issues with the summit started. gay marriage was not really legal in most places. that was a hot button issue. really mentioned in the context of not having same-sexke cakes for marriages. turned. the tide has that group recognizes it. that is why the tone is important to them and bring -- being embraced by a sitting
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president is important. host: we have betsy on the line. good morning. caller: good morning. glad i got in. i am not a republican or democrat. i am a christian. i am 63 years old. i just wish people could know what it was like when i was growing up as a child and what patriotism was and what religion wasand how the flag allowed to touch the ground. we were raised in sunday school and church. god has been put on a shelf. go away, god. my son is a schoolteacher. i helped him decorate his third grade room. i made a wreath that said, "joy to the world." he said if you put that on the wall, i will be fired. what so proud to hear
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donald trump was saying. we can say merry christmas and we can bring god back to this country. nancy pelosi and chuck schumer stand and watch trump try so hard. at least he is trying to bring some morals back in this country. that is what is wrong with this country. no morals. anything goes. i am ashamed and i pray for god's mercy on us. thank you. trump certainly, donald enjoys talking about merry christmas. he got significant flaws yesterday telling the crowd he was going to be saying merry christmas on behalf of the government -- he got significant applause yesterday telling the
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crowd he was going to be saying merry christmas on behalf of the government. host: thanks for your time this morning. coming up, we are taking more of your phone calls. republicans call. democrats, independents. or can reach us on facebook twitter. tweets, and i will read them. this week, "newsmakers" interviewed rob bishop. he talks about president trump's remarks this week that fema's presence in puerto rico would not go on forever. [video clip] they are treating puerto rico different from some other
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hurricane-affected regions. >> obviously, fema will not be there for eternity. i think the president did say that this morning or yesterday, that fema is there for the long haul. there are easier ways to getting into texas and florida then getting into the borge and islands -- virgin islands and puerto rico. there's a distance issue. fema is there for the first process of how you control and save lives and make sure thisone is safe from horrible devastation. this is one of those situations where you cannot control a hurricane by cleaning up the water. you have to do something more. they will be there. that is where my committee has a role. not only will fema be there for the first emergency response, but then there is the rebuilding process. that is where my committee comes in.
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we have already passed the control board that is down there. that is one of the vehicles to solve long-standing problems. we have also learned lessons from hurricanes in the past and other disasters of what kind of practices in the federal government prohibit and restrict the ability of trying to rebuild. that is what my committee will be looking at. the middle and long-range ways of how we rebuild those territories and make it better. by law, few can only rebuild thanks to the way they were before -- fema can only rebuild things to the way they were before disaster hit. the infrastructure, the grid in puerto rico is more fragile than we realized it was. we have got to fix it. that has got to be legislative language that will allow that to take place. that is what we will be trying to look at. >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back.
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as we talk about national politics, we should take note of the wildfires out west. here is the front page of "the san francisco chronicle." "taking stock of the damage." see the image. it takes through the numbers. 35 deaths from fires throughout northern california. blackened byles fires. 90,000 people have been evacuated. 5000 firefighters battling five fires across the state. 500 fire engines. 5700 homes and commercial facilities destroyed. let's go back to the phones. we have cornell calling from waterford works, new jersey, on the line for democrats. good morning. caller: good morning, jeff.
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they speak about god. prays for the flowers and weeds. i cannot speak for god, but i and jesus' teachings, that he would believe everybody should have health care. the people that called him and say they do not have to pay for it, if you go to the emergency room, they have to take you anyway. what happens is we will pay for it anyway. the reason why the affordable was inculcated in the first place is people were losing their homes because of health care. they have had seven years to come up with a plan to fix the affordable care act. but instead of fixing it, they are constantly putting
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roadblocks in place to make it whereespecially republicans have governors. there are roadblocks all of the place to make it fail. they have not done anything. they say john mccain was the sacrificial lamb because they did not want that to go. they came up with a plan that was a nonstarter anyway because if that would have went through, that was local suicide for the republican party. they have had seven years and to come up with nothing, and for donald trump to come up with he maden that still -- a promise during the campaign
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that he would have better insurance, insurance for all. and yet, everybody is not covered in this plan. actually, people are being taken off of what he is presenting. that is not going to fly anyway because 52% of counties in america, the poorest counties are republican counties. to takea smokescreen away the real issues about what is going on. the republicans control the senate and the house and a republican president. and look. nothing is getting them. why cannot they vote for it? as seriously as the gentleman called it, donald trump is a businessman. what good businessman files make sure you -- files bankruptcy six
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times? his tax returns to show he is a good businessman. .ost: here is the front page a right about president trump's decision to cut off crucial payments to health insurance companies.
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da frome have lena alabama online for republicans. caller: good morning. i watched your program when the president was speaking. there was a gentleman on there that work under president reagan. the words he used stuck out to me. i wrote those down. sinner hasevery a future. and every saint has a past." i totally agree with that. as far as the lady that called in from georgia, i agree with her. the negative calls in the last 30 minutes, i think their views and opinions don't matter
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because donald trump i believe has a chance. and i believe prayers and fasting is what elected him. and i am proud to call him my president. and as far as some of the shows that come on early in the morning, they browbeat him, they ridicule him. he is our president. give me a break. give him a chance. ever since he has been in especially, and i may not supposed to do this, but i am, you will probably cut me off. browbeatjoe," they this man into the ground. i have called and left messages for them. they should not do that. i am sorry people do not agree with him. i don't agree with a lot of stuff either, but he is our president and we should start saying america bless god along
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with god bless america. i love this country. i was born and raised here. if people don't like our flag, they need to go home. plain and simple. i love god. thank you for listening to me. you have a blessed day. host: you, too. let's go to california where we have steve on the line for independents. caller: i think a lot of people have misunderstood why christians or conservatives voted for donald trump. they wanted the junctures -- judges. they want the supreme court and they want judges. i am a social conservative. i do not want war with iran. i do not want war with the world. to bedon't want the poor out having to pay for their own health care. he misunderstood why social
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conservatives voted for him. it is the issue of the judges. he still has not filled a lot of the judges' seats. he did give the supreme court, but it is the other judges we want also. i was a republican. when this happened, i turned to independent. that is the reason clinton was not voted for, the fear of liberal judges. host: all right. the caller mentioned the iran deal. here is a story from the front page of the "washington journal."
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host: let's go to charlotte calling from baltimore, maryland, on the line for democrats. caller: i am a christian or certainly raised that way, sunday school and church every sunday. i find the voter values to be very un-christian. i still go to church because of the good things we do for people which i think is what jesus told us to do, but they do not want
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anybody to have anything. always somebody is taking something they worked for. i worked until i was 70 from the age of 13. i don't feel that way. i don't mind helping other people. i don't mind giving other people a boost. you don't know why people need help. work with them. that is not how they are. they show no love to fellow man. trump is the most hateful, un-christian person in the world. he is using them. he is a megalomaniac. there is nothing good about him. the only thing the values voters do for me is it makes me look forward to not being on earth because they are despicable. host: let me ask you this, charlotte. you and the caller from alabama are both professed christians and yet you both have very different views on the president and what christians should be doing in terms of taking stances
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on politics. what do you think accounts for that? people -- iink the think it is neurological. i think the people who have this "i've got mine" and "i'm better" and "i worked harder," they did not work harder. them different activities to see things differently. he did not give it to you to turn your back on those not as able as you are. the think this man is christian, you cannot even have the tv on because he is mean and curses and lives his life in a total un-christian way. dishonest constantly, constantly lies. you can catch him at it constantly. what they really want is for him to do what other people are
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saying, the people on the supreme court and other courts to force everybody to live like they live. that is actually saudi arabia in christianity. i have to be a christian. they want you to have certain jobs. they want to tell you what to do all the time. what they talk about is the opposite, the companion of sharia law, just christian law. no tolerance for anyone who thinks differently, even if these other people are not hurting them or doing anything. you can be going to work every day, taking care of your family, helping people. but if you do not think the way i understand muslims in the next 50 years will be the majority. i don't know that, i just read it. they are hateful people. i think it is neurological. i think part of their brain is different. mine says one thing to me, theirs says something else
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to them. host: let's go to tulsa on the line for independents where we have jim. caller: how are you doing today? host: just fine. how are you? caller: i agree with the lady from maryland on the trump thing. i was calling about the opioid thing. i agree with her. just because he wants to end christmas, that is a pagan holiday mixed in with christianity. many churches today do not teach the true bible. anyway, about the opioid thing, is that ok? host: have you been affected by the crisis? caller: yes, sir. one person said we need more labor. i cannot remember. another lady called in and said -- and a person said you need more labor but labor is what
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destroyed my back. i have to have pain medication to function. host: what did you do for a living? caller: i was a mechanic and did aircraft cleaning for nearly five years. ripped my back out on the lower back. they did surgery and botched it. sideways and then they want to do another surgery and you might have to do a third and fourth surgery. they said they had to go back in and fix it and check it out. they could not do nothing without going back in, and they might have to do a third and fourth surgery. i had old injuries because i got hit by a car when i was a kid. i busted my tail on my life laboring. rock work. at aned as a mechanic
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airline and did aircraft cleaning for nearly five years. nearly unheard of with a 300% injury rate. having more labor is not necessarily the problem, so i disagree with that. i am disabled, obviously. if i do not have the opiate i have to take, if i do not have that, i cannot function at all. host: all right. let's hear from trish now on the line for democrats from seattle, washington. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. as a nurse case manager for an insurance company that services medicare and medicaid population, i can tell you from personal experience how trump's people will hurt these that don't deserve to be hurt. they have worked their lives,
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they have done their jobs, and they have very little. and they are absolutely scared asdeath, as the should be -- they should be. i see these bills that come in. what they are billed for and what medicare pays for. for example ifys it is a $1500 regular bill and you do not have insurance, 1/3 ofre pays probably that bill rate. $1500, it is now a $200 bill the government is paying. howuld like to understand and why we cannot have medicare for everybody. it makes sense. they do it. the rest of the world. why would we want to deprive our citizens of health care so that
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they can be productive and happy care -- have good care and have the medicine they need? number 45derstand why wants to dismantle and take things away from people that people work hard for. how would they feel? howard congress -- how would congress? steve scully's from indiana, what if he did not have -- steve scalise from indiana, what if he did not have terrific health care? we have got to get better at this. i would like to suggest representatives have a meeting haveother countries that health care for everybody. see how they do it. we could do it better. we are americans. we should be better at this than everybody. i plead that they do. it is time.
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we just have to do this. until we all start telling our representatives what we want and demand, not want, we demand, it will not happen. so call your congressman. call the president. i called them all the time. -- i call them all the time. host: do you ever get through? caller: i get through to the president everyday. who i never get through to is ryan or mitch mcconnell. i think it is funny. "our voicemail box are full." that tells me something. that is awfully skating -- awfully skate -- obfuscating. i send them letters. even better, send them postcards because then they do not have to go through the security business.
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demand. that is our right as americans. thing, please,fl for god's sake, we've got more important things than who sits up or down for the national anthem. first amendment. that is what it is about. jesus. trish, theis democrat, calling from seattle, washington. let's hear from a republican calling from new york. it is lorraine. caller: it is herkimer. this is my first time. i am a little nervous. soup and heard a statement by mr. nelson about president trump having been married three times. is good news of jesus christ no matter what you have done, god can save you. there is redemption.
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jesus died for every sin. we are not to judge. the bible says judge not lest you be judged. you, trump,ody say, obama, is not a christian. you watch what they do and not what they say. they can say anything. as far as him lying, he claims to be a christian? watch what he does. christianmed to be a and the second day he was in office, he signed the partial-birth abortion bill into law. i did not vote for obama but i got behind him because i believe you should try to get behind the president unless they say and do things you don't agree with. you don't have to malign people. no matter what president trump does, and it happened with obama, too. they try to find every negative
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thing. the man does have a problem because he speaks before he thinks. sometimes he has to retract it. but christianity, you cannot say because a man was married three times, what he did on the bus, he was young. we are all sinners. unless you walk on water, you need to be saved, too. i did vote for president trump. i believe he is trying to do his best. look what happened when obamacare came on the scene, it was good for a lot of evil, but it was not good for some people. some people lost their doctors. some people pay a higher premium. it will be the same with this. matter what decision you make, somebody will get hurt for a while until we figure it out. you have to move forward. i don't believe because you are republican you cannot be for a democrat. i vote for the person, the
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issue. and i believe we have a president who truly wants to help america. and he is concerned about the american people. let's try to get behind him. maybe together, we can do something. united we stand, divided we fall. from let's hear from carl elizabeth city, north carolina, on the line for independents. good morning. caller: hello. i cannot understand how these so-called christians get behind this crooked man, so-called president. he is a fake president. fake.ls the news media if anybody is fate, donald trump is a fake president. he will not show his income tax. helies almost every word says and yet they claim he is such a good man. crooked as he can be. he is not trustworthy.
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we need to send him to russia with putin, his buddy. he is a no good person. i am a veteran, too. as far as the football players hasstanding, trump completely changed the issue. they were standing because they were not treated right by the police. black people are not treated right. they are killing them and then the crooked judges let them go. all they had to do is say i was afraid for my life. a man in south carolina, charleston, killed a man running from him, shot him in the back eight times. he goes to court. "i was afraid for my life." it is just ridiculous. ae people who vote for trump, lot of them are voting against their own interests. they are losing health care.
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they showed yesterday that the states that will be hurt more by i the south,d alabama, mississippi, louisiana, north carolina, south carolina. judgment at all voting against their own interests? hillary clinton was right when she said about 50% of them are deplorable. she was a little wrong. it should have been 90% of them. that is all i have to say. i hope thean get -- republican congress will get the guts to get this man out of office. kick him out of office. he is unfit to be president. thank you. host: coming up, rona kobell will be here to discuss her recent piece on the hemp industry in kentucky. later, we look at anti-hazing laws in the u.s. with psychologist susan lipkins. we will be right back.
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it was mostly reruns. there was no talk radio to speak of. just the big media. and c-span. he quickly realizes the potency orders everycial afternoon, giving a five-minute
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speech, because of everything being carried through cable to 100,000 homes around the country. gingrichy and newt used to say, would you give a speech to 100,000 people? of course you would. that is what you're doing with c-span with special orders every afternoon. cultickly becomes a political leader and is getting 700 letters a week from people to thishe country junior member from georgia already achieving a national following. book tv.on c-span2's everything was devastating for him at the end. he was in some ways isolated and alone. >> sunday night, the author and
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andessor at amherst college his biography, "gorbachev." >> he trusted the soviet people to follow him where they had never gone before, that is to democratize their country in a few short years. he trusted them to follow him as he moved to country toward a market economy from a command economy. he trusted them to follow him and trust him as he made peace in the cold war against the agent enemy, the united states. he trusted them too much it turned out. easterny night at 8:00 on c-span's "q&a." >> "washington journal" continues. host: welcome back. rona kobell is with us. she is a contributor to "reason" magazine. she is here to talk about her issue aboutober's
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hemp. good morning. thanks for being with us. mp and think he marijuana, but they are different? guest: they are different. they are from the same plant but the active ingredient in marijuana is t.h.c., and the active agreement -- ingredient in hemp is cbd. it will not get you high, but it has many medicinal properties and other properties. you can do a lot of different things with hemp. host: why all of a sudden is this in the news? guest: that is a great question. there have been efforts over the past three years to make hemp legal federally because it is still a schedule one drug.
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it in the to grow state where it is not legal, you can run into all kinds of problems. even where it is legal, you can still run into problems. farmers that wish to grow hemp and entrepreneurs that wish to process it are seeking a legal path to do so. some states have found a path by kentucky in colorado. other states are trying to get their. overall, there needs to be an overarching federal statute so that when you ship hemp seeds across state lines, they are not seized. that has happened. one thing that is interesting about kentucky is it is the fifth poorest state in the nation. their economy has really been hurt. they looked at this open window during the 2014 farm bill that allowed a path to legalize hemp,
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and they basically kicked open that window and made an industry. i thought it was interesting to look at because kentucky is unlikely to legalize marijuana any come soon, so it became a business and economic development decision and something to reinvigorate their farmland which had been in tobacco for centuries. tobacco is something we do not grow much anymore. we are trying to buy out tobacco farms. tobacco farmers wanted to get into something else. they wanted to keep farming their land. hemp was something that had been farmed in kentucky for centuries. it was the major state that farmed hemp back in the day. henry clay had a hemp farm. many famous founders of our country also farmed hemp. was banned in 1937 under the marijuana tax act, kentucky farmers had to either give their hemp to the government or forfeit all their profits.
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a lot of them held the spot in their hearts for the plant and wanted to grow it again. it is sort of an emotional issue as well as an economic one in kentucky. host: what are some of the industrial uses? guest: you can make a dress like this one. car dashboards. b.m.w. is using it for different parts of the car. the other part of the plant that innot fiber can be used industrial for sewage spills, all kinds of things like that. seedsfood, i have hemp most mornings in my yogurt. very tasty, full of protein. there is also the cannabinoid oil which can cure epilepsy and reduce seizures, rheumatoid arthritis, it is great for reduction of pain. there are all of those medical applications as well. host: we have cornelia on the
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line for republicans calling from cottonwood, idaho. good morning. caller: good morning. to be honest, i was sitting here thinking about what i would say. happy andeally applying -- applauding the return of the hemp industry. the little bit i know about it is i have a son who has been having seizures since he was 18 years old. he is now going to be 38. all he was getting was prescriptions that made him into a zombie, and they wanted to give him more and more prescriptions. down a road of spiraling down into more serious seizures and more frequent seizures. i heard about the hemp oil. actually, it was on c-span.
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i heard an argument in congress about the hemp oil, the cbd. because it is illegal in idaho. i tried it on my son, and he immediately started improving with the seizures. then i finally heard it is the cbd oil that is so helpful for the seizures. now we are just trying that. i am only on my second bottle of that. it is fairly expensive. i'm using it for him because he ill withng seriously the seizures and even landing in the hospital. applied this. i think the actual means and herbs is the way to go rather than relying on pharmaceutical companies to give our people more deadly prescriptions.
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acids in theatty hemp oil i am reading are very helpful for all kinds of things like heart problems, even mental problems, memory problems, and so on. we do not get enough omega-3 fatty acids in our diet. i think if the american people would start looking into the natural means of health and going that route, rather than just relying on prescriptions, our medical expenses in our country would be reduced drastically. guest: yeah, i agree with what you said. that is the story i hear a lot especially in kentucky from people who were ill or their children were ill and they started using the cbd oil and saw immediate improvement. this is especially true for
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seizures, epilepsy, and rheumatoid arthritis, and different kinds of pain. you bring up a really good point. you have to jump through all these hoops to get this oil. it is not available in drugstores. you cannot use a prescription to get it. absolutely, we have an opioid crisis in this country. when i went in to be treated from rep. titus: -- bronchitis, my doctor had read some of my pieces and said he had a patient addicted to opioids and switched oil and theybinoid are not addicted anymore. i think there is a tendency among hemp enthusiasts to oversell hemp's curative properties, but i think there's something to it. there is no reason why you should not have access to it. in your piece, you write about the benefits to the kentucky economy. this year, more than 200 kentucky farmers will grow close to 13,000 industrial acres of
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hemp. host: tell us about some of the people you met in kentucky and how this industry is changing their lives. guest: one thing that is interesting is the confluence of rural and urban people coming together. we hear about this great divide. you don't see it among the hemp people. you have these aging hipsters living in louisville, and then you have these older gentlemen farmers with the battery, kentucky-- buttery, accent, former tobacco farmers growing it. you have young people who want to market and sell it.
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you have a woman making soap in her kitchen with her mother. and then you have a guy louisville with 15 employees, su n strand, and they are big into using hemp to make auto parts, coffee mugs, and that sort of thing. you have a diverse industry of people who come at it for different reasons. you do have people who have gotten into it because they have had a health issue and have become customers of the oil, and then they decide to try to make it themselves. it is a really diverse group of people. host: let's go to chris calling from illinois on the line for independents. caller: good morning. thanks for taking my call. just a few comments. regulationhe overall of marijuana in the united states, i think they need to advance a little bit farther forward to the modern era.
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i think they should regulate it the same as alcohol. said, i previous caller think we need to go back to a more natural form of edison -- medicine. prescription drugs are great when they do what they are supposed to do, although i think the overuse of them, especially opioids, is a problem. if you look at why marijuana and hemp were outlawed originally in the 1920's and 1930's, some people believe it and i do, i think it was a racial aspect. they were trying to control immigration. they saw marijuana legislation as a way to do that. several former presidents group hemew hemp. george washington grew hemp and tobacco. it was a major part of the u.s. economy in the past and i
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believe it could be again today. the crime caused simply because marijuana and hemp are illegal is ridiculous. most arrests are for marijuana. if we can get that regulated to ifthe same as alcohol, which you have ever smoked marijuana and drink alcohol, you can wake up in the morning and it is hard to function. the other one, you almost don't remember you did it. guest: yes, i agree. it did stem from a lot of racism, the prohibition against both marijuana and hemp. it continues to be a racial issue, especially the way marijuana is enforced across the country. i live in baltimore so this is great where i live, although i am sure every urban city has the same issues. it has been shown time and time again african americans and caucasian americans, their marijuana consumption rates are
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the same but the arrest rates for african americans and mexican-americans in particular are nearly twice what they are for everybody else. obviously, there is an enforcement issue and a racism issue. what i find interesting about the hemp and marijuana they were forced into this uncomfortable marriage in 1937 when they both got banned together. over the last several years, we have seen a liberalization in marijuana laws. many states have medical marijuana. quite a few are moving towards legalizing it for recreational uses. marijuana seems to have gotten the good end of the torch because those laws are being liberalized whereas the hemp laws have been slower to be liberalized. like we mentioned before, hemp cannot get you high. i find it interesting. has beenhe reason hemp
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slower to become legal than marijuana is there are lots of industries that do not want to eat a natural -- to see a natural product become available. the pharmaceutical industry, some of the makers of nylon and polyester, they put it in the doghouse with back when and those forces are still influential in our country today. host: senator mitch mcconnell's home state is kentucky. guest: he is very supportive of hemp. he had not been in the past. something interesting happened in kentucky. the kentucky agricultural commissioner ran for congress and won by the widest margin of any republican in kentucky that year. this will call took notice of -- mitch mcconnell took notice of that. aboutn was pretty much hemp. leader looked at the issue and realized this is a
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huge economic development issue for his state, and he has become very supportive. rand paul has been very supportive. congressman matthew from kentucky is also a farmer and congressman comer. you have the kentucky delegation very supportive. fromave the liberals colorado, oregon, and california who supported. hopefully, there will be a move towards bipartisanship in congress and we can get something passed that will allow people not to be treated as criminals for growing a plant that is about as harmful to you and is likely to get you stoned as radishes. that is what we are talking about, really. host: let's go back to the phones. we have mari from virginia on the line for democrats. caller: i'm calling in support of the organization that lobbies
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congress on behalf of international aid. i have heard hemp has a lot of uses in infrastructure like hemp concrete and is cheap to use. i wondered about the potential if hemp is legalized what the expanse and effects could be as far as infrastructure and helping other countries. guest: there are houses that have been made out of hemp in europe. they are doing some of that work in asheville. it is at the demonstration stage. like with all the other uses of hemp, this is a plant just coming back to us. the potential of the plant is enormous and we don't really know where it is going to go. could it replace insulation? could it be healthier to breathe? a lot of portable classrooms in our schools are filled with toxic chemicals in the building
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materials. perhaps hemp could alleviate some of those problems. i think when it is legal, we will see all kinds of experimentation at universities and with entrepreneurs. we are not there yet in terms of what we are able to do because of the legal restrictions on the plant. host: couple of tweets. one is from vivian. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] is that the case? yes. host: please discuss the environment and benefits of industrial hemp. guest: that is a great question b isuse my full-time day jo writing onof farming. we have very much a monoculture. we also grow industrial animals. chickens where i live and cows
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and pigs in other places. hemp replenishes the soil when you grow it. you basically give your soils a break. we have a large problem with pesticides. we are losing monarch butterflies because of g.m.o. seeds and this kind of thing. the e.p.a. has not approved any pesticides for either hemp or marijuana. no canvas plants are able to -- cannabis plants -- no plants are able to have pesticides on them. it is more labor-intensive for the farmers but better for the environment. there are many ways in which hemp is going to be able to replenish the soil. it could be something the department of agriculture could to help as a cover crop the slow recovery.
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we have jeff calling from arizona on the line for democrats. caller: thanks for taking my call. know, ther guests reason we are looking at the hemp industry just starting in arizona. it is all going to be a slow marijuana,en the because this boils down to one thing. money. money dictates everything. let's begin with alcohol. we got back into alcohol. now we have alcoholism. 50,000 people year killed in car wrecks. the bottom line is the alcohol industry dictates his of money -- because of money. there's billions of dollars involved. opioidson marijuana and
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, it is because of the money and because they go into heroin. all most all of the overdoses of heroin, where does that come from? mexico. a bust with 50 pounds, enough to kill 5 million people. until we quit all of the drugs and start over, start over, i am not disagreeing some of these have benefits, but the money will always did take everything. ok? and until it is properly put into the right associations, it is not going to work. it will be underground. the money will dictate everything. guest: i would encourage you to think about hemp the way you would think about soybeans or barley. it is connected to cannabis. it is cannabis. it is connected to marijuana,
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but it is not a drug you can use or smoke. we are in a situation where as a plant, it resembles the plant i just named that is not treated like those plants. issome states where hemp marginally legal, you need to register your field. you need to tell the d.e.a. where you are. in other states like virginia, if you want to grow hemp, you need to be fingerprinted. imagine having to be fingerprinted to grow corn. if we want this plant to achieve all of its benefits, the economic development, as well as the soil benefits, and benefits for the rural economy, and the health benefits, and everything, we need to give it a chance. we need to get it out of its jail and let it flourish. there may be things we think it can do that it cannot do. and there may be things we have not even thought of yet. who would have thought 10 years
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ago you can make a car or a house out of hemp? we trouble seems to be when consider this to be a controlled substance, which it is unfortunately registered as. but that is just a definition richard nixon gave it in the 1970's. he does not resemble that in any way, shape, or form. carol calling from east patek, new york, on the line for republicans. caller: i am a conservative republican and totally for hemp an marijuana. i have never used it but i know the uses for it. in kentucky, they were using it to make rope. it is phenomenal for making rope. marijuana is very helpful when it comes to bipolar disorder and for seizures and pain management. unfortunately, they keep saying, especially sessions, that it is definitely a gateway drug. it is not a gateway drug.
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it has never been a gateway junk. unfortunately, the gateway drug is alcohol if they want to be honest. i have never seen anyone get in an accident, abuse someone, get violent, on marijuana. it is a calming drug. it does just the reverse. i would love to see it legalized. the only problem i have is with the oils. they are charging $250 for a liquor bottle -- little bottle that most people cannot afford to buy. most people have drug companies and are paying $5 for their drugs. ridiculous what we are taxing hemp and marijuana. it is becoming abusive and it bothers me because i think marijuana is a great drug. i think hemp can be used very beneficially.
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guest: it would be nice to go to your pharmacy and get a drug that you could use to treat your epilepsy and not pay a fortune for it, and have that drug be based in the natural oil where you knew exactly what was in it. we are not there by a long shot. to hope -- the hope is when and if the federal law passes, not only will the medicinal properties of hemp be treated like the medicinal properties of other things, but food. hemp is not able to get the designation from the fda so hemp products can be sold like cereal bars or anything else we buy. it is a nutritional product has to go through a separate procedure. that means it is harder to get hemp seeds. you can find them at walmart and trader joe's, but it is harder
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to get other hemp products people might want. host: our last call this half-hour is from john calling from florida on the line for independents. good morning, john. caller: hello. what i have noticed about marijuana is it suppresses the ego. the business community does not like that. they sell you things for your ego. the political people control people through their ego. i just noticed that from using marijuana. that is what it sort of does. guest: i am not really a marijuana user, so i am not going to be able to take that one. i would encourage people again to think about marijuana and hemp as different. they share a route but they are really different plants with really different uses. think marijuana
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should be legal. but i also believe that should which, ase from hemp i said, is like a radish or sore in terms of soybean what it can do. it is an economic development powerhouse with the products it can make. as tempting as it is to couple them, i do think they are different. host: rona kobell is a contributor to "reason" magazine. we have been talking about her piece in the october edition looking at the return of hemp in kentucky. thank you for your time. lipkinsp, dr. susan will be with us to talk about hazing laws across the country and the hazing incidents at universities. stay with us. >>
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>> this weekend on american , the author of "for their own cause: on site and morale after black troops were confederateguard prisoners." >> most people did believe that black people did not count enough to fight. andhen on native americans trade in 19th-century california. >> the indian men are cowboys, and they are dressed really, really nicely. that shows you the value that missionaries place on the work that is cowboys date, that they were allowed worst of all to ride horses, which was generally forbidden to indians within the california mission system, and secondly, they are dressed
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pretty nice. >> we continue our series on photojournalists with david valadez, the former director of office.e house photo >> if i say something about his hair and i take his photo and his hair looks nice, no one would ever believe that this was not set up, so i just took the twoo and wound up running full pages in "life" magazine, and over the next 20 years or so, it was in the best "life" in "life." moments >> american history tv all weekend every weekend only on c-span3. "washington journal" continues.
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host: welcome back. lipkinsn likins -- joins us now. she's a psychologist and joins us from new york city. good morning. guest: thanks for having me. host: you are a leading expert in hazing. how did you come to specialize in that area? interesting an question. in 2003, there is a horrible incident in a town near where i live and work. three teens came that from preseason football cap as they started high school. they were freshmen. it took three weeks for the story to break. it was a national story. the kids have been sodomized with broomsticks, pine cones, covered in icy hot.
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i specializegist, in children and adolescents, and i was wondering what would make them do this to each other, especially kids who grew up in the same town and knew each other, so i decided to do a documentary and i interviewed parents and coaches and try to get an idea of what was happening. if that point, there were only 50 hits on google. today, there are more than 6 million. there was nothing written in the psychology area or any area, actually, about hazing, and it really made me feel we have to explore what was happening. i think from then, we started to see more of what we call pierpont. peer violence, and at this point, we had a new realm of study. host: despite all the conversations, there is still no legal definition for hazing. is that right? guest: everyone seems to have their own definition. i consider it a process used by
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groups to maintain a hierarchy or pecking order and to discipline. the activities are either physically or psychologically harmful or potentially harmful, but truthfully, each state that has a hazing law, each school or a hazing policy -- they usually create their own definition. host: how pervasive is a lack of people usually think of it as college fraternities, but doing research on it, i discovered it is happening as well even at younger ages. i think it is mostly in high school. you need a group organization that has a pecking order like a team. agoincidental a a long time said 79% of athletes going into college had already been hazed. i feel a lot of hazing starts in athletic teams and marching -- those kinds of groups
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in high school. kids come in and all the want to do -- they are innocent. they want to join the lacrosse team, the football team. and arebecome a victim hazed. the next season, they watched as others get hazed and are bystander, and eventually, they get senior status and become the perpetrator. they do unto others what was done to them. they feel like they have a right or duty to pass on the tradition. each time they do that, they want to add their own little mark, so they increase the paddling or sexual humiliation -- whatever it may be. they take that blueprint, throw it into their backpack, and take it to college, the military, the workplace. when they get to college, they expect to be hayes, they expect to hayes others, and they no had her do that better than they know how to do a research paper -- they expect to be hazed, they , and theyhaze others
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know how to do that better than they know how to do a research paper. hazings you well know, is back in the news this week. nineently in louisiana, men arrested in a hazing death released on bond. this is the headline from "the advocate" there. when still in custody. nine of the 10 men arrested. anything in your research you have found that can be effective in stopping this sort of thing? tell youwas i could what. i proposed in 2000 for something called the national hazing prevention act, which would be a federal agency that would look
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at hazing and collect statistics and train people to go and do the interviews at serious and we like this one, could have research centers across the united states that would be finding ways to prevent this kind of violence. the truth is all the things that colleges have tried, what theens is kids will do what colleges say and then go do their hazing and their tradition late at night or somewhere else. if the colleges kick them off campus, they go across the street and become an underground campus and there's even less supervision. we really have not found a way. colleges across the nation and in general -- i think we all are bystanders and we have to report that information that we have, but we do not have, like, an 800 number, like a toll-free anonymous way of reporting information, and we do not have a system so someone can follow up on those reports.
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a lot of colleges start to do that, but even they are not trained or training well. there is a symbiotic relationship between colleges and their athletic teams or the greek system. the greeks bring in a social basis. the athletic spring and a lot of money. when they come back, they want to see the football game, they want to go see their fraternity house, and they get a lot of money to their university. universities do not want anyone to die. neither does anyone else, but on the other hand, they kind of chink and do not want anyone involved. look at it as a homicide, mostly misdemeanor even the someone is dead. caller: we had --host: we had drew calling from maryland. good morning. on.er: i cannot believe i'm i just thought it listening to c-span recently.
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host: where did you go to school? caller: i went to high school and a small town in maryland and was the president of the drama club. when i was a senior, that's when i became president, and i realized there had been hazing going on, perpetrated by seniors . i thought it was so cruel and awful and did not want to .ontinue it that's my experience with that. host: if i could ask you quickly, what form did the hazing take? caller: i understood it would happen at the cast party. there was one that the kids had
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, party at one of the houses just really, really cruel things, like they made them take off their shoes and socks outside. she is a color for calling in. these kinds of things were really common in high school and college and everywhere. people try to do things where they assert their power and also something humiliating and difficult, and they want to prove that you are good enough, worthwhile enough to be part of the organization. if it has anything to do with drama is irrelevant. there is something that i call the second hazing, and what happens is once the hazing is exposed, those people who try to
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it arete it or reporte usually ostracized, and 85% of the group will support the perpetrators, so you have a small 15% who are trying to stand up and say we do not want this to happen anymore, and they socially isolated, called names like rat or snitch or whatever, and there is not -- group culture in general does not want to change. they want to maintain the status whether or not hazing can be dangerous. from we have elizabeth south carolina. good morning. how are you? we had an accident in our city a couple of years ago where a very intelligent guy, senior in college, was with his college
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group, and they were running one early morning, and he was found lake.drowned in a none of the students would come with anything they knew had happened to him, so the parents turned around and sued millions.sity and won i don't think it is right that s of these kids are suing the schools and universities. i don't think it is going to help in the future, and i think what we need to do when they are very young is just keep talking to them about bullying and hazing, and if they are so smart, just come forward and talk to your parent. let them know. i just disagree with the parents
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suing these colleges. thank you. i had a lot to say. first of all, i think the reason it is good to sue these colleges is because they are responsible for your students. they are approving these organizations, and they are supposed to know what is going on. there is no one else, it is the university's responsibility to know what is going on. secondly, if we do not sue them, nobody is going to change. unfortunately in the united states, the only way changes to occur are through courts and through laws. third, i am familiar with that case, and what you're describing is the code of silence. what happens is the first thing groups do is teach victims and anyone else the cover story, what they are going to say if the authorities to find what happens, and it was a tragic inth that someone should die
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partater because they were of an organization. i think if it was your son, they might fit -- you may feel the same way. you see when they question these kids, they give the same exact answer. it's like a robot. they are still stuck in the where if you want to be in this group, you have to do this. the biggest element of hazing is surprised. todo not tell you you have walk across a bridge with a crease -- a creek underneath it and do it intoxicated. we do not tell you you have to walk into the pacific ocean
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during a storm or anywhere else. all these stories i'm telling you are actual hazing cases. there are some numbers here from the website stophazing.org. slowly scroll here, you can see hazing happens across a range of student groups to include the honor society, which down here.d intramural teams, performing arts, varsity athletics. we have david calling from montana on the line for all others. good morning. i want to tie this back to the pain, but she hit on it exactly. she told us people in power tend others,to hays -- haze and it is a thing streaming from the top down rather than the bottom up, seeing people jump through hoops just to
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appropriate proper medical treatment and necessities of these copycats forced to get out here and get our we should be resting bodies. the federal government taken any discernible action against hazing? guest: not that i have seen. after the famu case where a boy named champion died on a bus after being a drum major in a quite famous marching band, i think some of the representatives in florida wanted to pass a federal law. as far as i'm concerned or that i know about, nothing has happened.
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when i went to washington more than a decade ago, i realized that most of these guys has been in fraternities and sororities, and most of their children probably are, and they are probably not going to pass a law that made hazing illegal. if you look at some of the ,ebsites from the fraternities they tell you some of the famous senators and congressmen are who are proud members. host: there is a tweet here fromg maybe if someone schools controlled public hazing doing something silly with teachers present, that might help. what do you think of that? caller: the profession --guest: the professional teams continue aze, but howto h often have we seen in the news players cross-dressing, dressing
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up like halloween, having to pay $30,000 for dinner -- these are hazing incidents. i think if we actually hazed teachers, superintendents, or even the president, they would probably think it was funny or boys will be boys, or this is what happened to me, it will happen to you, or what goes on in the locker room stays in the locker room, and that is typically the reaction of the community. mildred,'s hear from calling from south carolina. she's a parent. good morning. caller: good morning. host: what's on your mind? caller: one of the speakers earlier on south carolina spoke this she lived near a college .here the young man was drowned both my children attended that very same college. my oldest daughter -- or my
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oldest child -- i asked her not before the sororities she was a junior so she would know what college was about and not be taken in. she was not accepted because she was very -- she was always the person that had a mind of her own. they what they call blackballed intond would not allow her any of the sororities. but that was my prayer. my son waited until he was a junior to join a fraternity, and he came to me after he went to this can't and was initiated into this fraternity, and he was .roken he was very sad and would not tell me anything about what was going on. my daughter would have come to me and told me everything, but i realized it's a secret society,
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so tell your children that you interested in fraternities. yes, these colleges should be sued because if anything happened to my kids, they would have remembered me after they were dead. they are responsible. i paid them my money. they are supposed to watch over them, and they are responsible. your kids to avoid these fraternities. they don't get you anything in life. all they are going to do is bar you for life. thank you. i actually have a story that supports the speaker. when i started, i met someone who started a group of mothers against hazing, and she changed the law in louisiana because at
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the time, it only covered colleges. her son and high school had been hazed, and now the law covers high school as well. she taught her son at the age of 11 what hazing was an not to let a group do that, and when he got hazed, he came to the authorities until the what happened. it was a brutal case, and it was very difficult for him to stand up in a small community where everyone knew each other or were related to each other, but he did, so these are people like your daughter and yourself -- we call them change agents. these are the kinds of people we do want to develop. unfortunately, i'm a psychologist. i have my book in the waiting room. oft of the parents adolescents, i tell the maybe they want to read the book first, and they say they do not want to know what is going to happen. they do not want to teach their
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kids to maybe not want to join those fraternities and sororities, which have increased in membership more than 30% and the last 10 years. host: there's an effort on capitol hill to pass something called the reach act, which stands for report and educate , whichampus hazing act would disclose incidents of reported hazing in the campus releases and report statistics of referrals for discipline and arrests for .azing do you think there is any reason to believe that might be successful? guest: well, there is. an act started when someone's daughter was raped on campus, and they decided to really participate in the legal system. i think that is part of it and part of what they are trying to
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do. the problem is we get statistics like that, and people are looking at colleges, that is the last thing they look at. they usually say, that's not going to happen to my daughter or my child or whatever. even in new york state, we have asked to protect kids from bullying and hazing and harassment in school. suddenly the statistics about bullying in school once the act , some might go down. schoolsquestion of how are going to define it, if they will actually put it in. we do talk to schools to ensure it is happening, but we do have a code of silence. the only time we really find out is when the end up in the moretal or the more -- the -- when they end up in the hospital or the morgue. let's hear from michael
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calling from uniontown, pennsylvania. good morning, michael. caller: how you doing? host: find, how are you? in 1974, i played on a high school football team, wasthere was a boy who .robably two of years under me i was a junior, so he would have been a freshman or whatever. we had a to play -- coach who is still coaching, but from.'t coach where i'm guy -- the guy was not a great player, but he wanted to play. he was a high school kid. -- they -- the big
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shots -- so-called big shots -- they taped him to a goalpost with duct tape. i was down there -- i went down there, and i saw him. he could not move, so i cut him off, and i said, i tell you what, let's just both quit. if this is what it's all about -- we weren't no professional football team. we were just high school kids. he wanted to play. . could have made the team i would not have been a great star or nothing, but i could have made it, but that is what they do to kids. it makes them in their heads -- you know, something like that -- he wanted to play so bad, he's trying as hard as he can.
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the big shots, they did something like that, and i went home and told my dad i said i quit. he said why, and i said this don't make no sense. that didn't make no -- i was not part of it, i just happen to go out and look up the street in front of the stadium and i saw the guy, and that's what they did just to get him off the team, and the coach never said a word about it. actually, being duct taped is not necessarily to get you off the team. it's often what we call mild hazing. many kids are duct tape to all kinds of things that's been just -- all kinds of things, then just in the locker room. they are humiliated, they are freezing. people have a hazing like you , and it's years ago
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much worse today. it is condoned sometimes by coaches. they look the other way, say it's not such a bad thing, but hazing is alive and well and growing every day. our final call this hour comes from jeff from pittsburgh, pennsylvania. good morning. caller: good morning. i've been involved with fraternities probably 40 or 50 years, and hazing has been around forever. one of the things that happened was at the in of world war ii when soldiers came back and started going to college, it went up a notch or two. one or two to kids stand up and ,ay they are not doing this they can get thrown off campus. evil persists when good people do nothing, but if a couple people stand up at a questionable incident, it may not happen. guest: i agree.
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research shows that you have two or more people that go against the crowd, it's more likely to raise the question in the crowd to perhaps follow them. the problem is we do not always have that many healthy leaders, and people who really do want to break the code of silence, to tonge the idea that we have harass people or hurt people in order to maintain a hierarchy, continue a tradition, or be powerful, so i'm glad you are working with fraternities. i hope you develop the kind of leadership. unfortunately, in the first incident that got me involved in hazing with the boys were sodomized, two of the three people were on the honor society, and we have had leadership camps where there's sodomy or other types of hazing. the kids walk through this doorway that says hazing, and they drop their judgment and morals and intelligence, and we go into a area where they say we had a code of silence. this doesn't count.
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we can do anything we want and not get caught, and unfortunately, most people do it. i support you and anyone else who wants to be a leader and try to have an healthy organization. is a dr. susan lipkins psychologist speaking with us this morning. thank you for your time. that will do it for today's program. thanks, as always, for making "washington journal" part of your day. see you tomorrow. [captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] [captioning performed by the national captioning institute, which is responsible for its caption content and accuracy. visit ncicap.org] quit here on c-span this morning, we will take a look at the governor's race in virginia.
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at 11:00, live coverage of the values voter summit where steve bannon and sebastian gorka will be speaking today. this afternoon, national security adviser h.r. mcmaster sits down with three of his predecessors to discuss the role of the national security council and its future. this weekend on american history tv on c-span3, today at 6:00 p.m. eastern on the civil war, the author of "for their own cause," on southern morale after black troops were assigned to guard confederate prisoners. >> one might assume that's why they chose these black troops, because in the mid-19th century, most people didn't believe black men were not talented enough to fight, that they were not brave enough to fight. >> at 8:00 on lectures in a university professor on native americans and trade in 19th-century california.
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>> the indian men are cowboys, and spanish, and their dress feels like a ariana grande. they are addressed nicely, so that shows you the value missionaries place on the work is cowboys did, that they were allowed first of all to write horses, which is generally for been to indians within the california mission system, and secondly, they are addressed pretty nice. >> and we continue our series on photojournalists with the former director of the white house photo office under president george h.w. bush. >> if i say something about his hair and i take this photo and his hair looks nice, no one will ever believe that this was not set up. i just took the photo and wound full pages and "life" magazine, and over the next 20 years or so, it was in the best "life" and classic
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moments in "life" and in 2011, it was selected one of the best photos in life magazine for the past 75 years. >> american history tv all weekend every weekend only on c-span3. head to therginia polls next month to elect a new governor with a choice between republican and gillespie -- republican ed gillespie or democrat ralph northam. earlier this week, they met for their final debate. topics include the opioid epidemic, broadband access, government spending, among other topics. this is just under an hour.

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