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tv   Washington Journal 10272017  CSPAN  October 27, 2017 6:59am-10:01am EDT

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separated from them and being left behind. somebody pulled my hair and somebody body slammed me from the other direction. protest on campus last march after a lecture by charles murray. watch her sunday night on c-span's q&a. >> we are devoting our washington journal to discussion about sexual harassment are in. the panel looking at managing health care cost. ruth bader ginsberg talk to a group of law students about social justice. we will look at the government's role in combating workplace sexual harassment or it we will talk about private sector efforts to address the problem.
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washington journal is next. >> working together, we will defeat this opioid epidemic. it will be defeated. host: president trump declared the opioid crisis is a health emergency. if grant money will be used to combat opioid abuse. critics say his actions fell short. we want to get your thoughts on the situation where you live and how it impacts you and your loved ones. if you leave in the eastern part of the country, (202) 748-8000. if you live in the mountain
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pacific area, (202) 784-8001. those of you impacted by the opioid crisis, (202) 748-8002. on can join the conversation facebook. the phone lines are open. let's start with this latest data from the wall street journal. a doubling of u.s. deaths involving fentanyl and other synthetic opioids. there was a 21% jump in drug overdose deaths. overdose deaths and other 20,000 in jumped to the 12 months that ended.
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here is the president at the white house yesterday, declaring situation a public emergency. >> we are distributing $1 billion in grants or treatment and $50 million to some or law enforcement programs that assist those facing prison and addiction. and $81 million partnership through better pain management techniques for our veterans. way, you have done
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an incredible job for our veterans. soon, hhs will launch an update for best practices in pain management across the federal government. today this morning on the president's announcements. parents of weighted patiently or the epidemic to be declared a national emergency. some were disappointed. the declaration is too little too late. the distinction is an important one as parents were hoping or extra funding for the epidemic that has claimed the tens of thousands of lives. it includes less than the commission recommended in a
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preliminary report in july. we want to know how this crisis is impacting you where you live. we will go to annapolis. caller: good morning. i have one lesson. wonder, somebody is going to have to pay for it. that's my big question. it seems to come up under the affordable health care act. host: there are some mentions on what this could do or medicaid and medicare complying and supplying the overdose drug as well as drugs that might reduce the addiction. i will try to find that in share with our audience. we want to hear. what do you think?
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what could the health care system do besides provide for drugs and treatment western mark. caller: if he is going to cut health care and its pain or a lot of things, maybe states will have to expand medicaid. that's my biggest concern. somebody has to pay for it or it. host: patrick is in florida. good morning. you are impacted i the situation. florida left the pill mills running wild. you spent more time talking about benghazi than the thousands of lives that were destroyed under jeb bush. the states were allowed to run these pill mills. go back to paying for their own
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mistakes. why is this the federal governments responsibility? relatives get a social security benefit? wrote into law a you are in junkie you get a social security benefit. i think this is a scam by corporate america. c-span just ignores that situation when it ails out corporate america and you complain about stamps. host: you want the states to be held accountable or the situation? caller: yes. they let it run wild. costsrida, a sober house $25,000 a month. send them to boot camp in parris island. and they goehab
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right back outside and buy drugs during the. the miami herald has an article about rehab counselors dying of rug overdoses -- drug overdoses. so theym to boot camp have no possibility of getting hold of these drugs. it's unbelievable. host: the wall street journal editorial says the federal government does have accountability. more than nine in 10 did not think they needed treatment. only 25% listed coverage as the
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reason for not receiving care.
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that's the wall street journal. the new york times editorial says this about health care coverage. efforts to treat the disease have nearly bankrupted the people whose insurance falls short. back to what you think. north carolina, good morning to you. back in the 80's and 90's when crack cocaine ravaged
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our neighborhoods, they threw us in jail. no one talked about eight health problem. money.sting our these drug companies have become the major drug dealers. put them in jail. drugshese people get on on the other side of the highway, you want to call it an epidemic. take a couple of friends with you. i don't feel sorry for these people. nobody felt sorry for us. a they threw us in jail. more like in blacks were on crack cocaine. now it's on the other side of the tracks. i don't even feel sorry for them. host: you don't feel sorry for
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people who are suffering? caller: that's not addiction. you are trying to kill yourself. they threw -- back when it was crack cocaine, they threw us in jail. these drug companies are pushing these drugs, they are the biggest drug dealers today. it's not the unemployed person selling drugs. it's these drug companies. you call it an epidemic now. cocaine wasen crack in our neighborhood. you called us super predators gotbuilt prisons, everybody rich off the back of poor wife in blacks. blacks.s and general state attorneys
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subpoena opioid manufacturers. medication controls pain and emotions and drives up levels of the feel-good hormone dopamine. the brain is used to the feeling and it takes more and more to produce the same level of pain relief and well-being. that leads to addiction. five majorthe manufacturers with subpoenas, seeking information about how they marketed and sold prescription opioids. they are demanding information about the distribution practices from three streeters. helen is in fullerton, california. caller: i was reading an article about this issue written by the cdc.
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fromofiled drug deaths 2014 to 2015. what it looks like to me is there isn't an emergency, but we do have a lot of politicians claiming it into an emergency. said, thereicle were 39,000 deaths from drug overdoses. if a person dies from a drug overdose and the have more than one drug in their system, that death is counted times. i look at it. fromoks like 15,000 died heroin. 17,500 frome prescription opioids.
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that 39,000 is probably a lot less because some of them died from more than one drug in their system. said of thecle 100,000 population, it increased area the emergency is that from ofincreased to nine out 100,000. it's an increase of one death over a year or two years. i am wondering why all of a sudden this christie and trump are jumping on this crisis. host: let's look at some other numbers. americansid it was 91 dying every day from opioid related drug overdoses and. caller: i found chris christie's
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quote where he said 100 or i-5 drop dead. -- 145 drop dead. i'm going directly to the source. the cdc is pretty reliable. about ore you heard asked around about how the situation where you live? caller: yes. , or is ae is nobody problem and it has existed for a long time. -- it's notdeaths that there are more people using opioids, the percentage of people who are using opioids and are drug addicts dying because
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fentanyl has been introduced into the population. it's killing them. people are thinking an increase in addiction when what is happening when you look at the statistics being thrown at us, it's the deaths that are increasing, not the people using opioids. put up on the screen. 91 americans die every day from it opioid overdose. you can find that on cdc. of. gov. a viewer tweeted us a map from the cdc. this breaks it down by state. 10 states listed below the map.
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you can see there is a large amount of restriction drugs there in those states. this is the washington times, trump declares public emergency over epidemic. he will urge the chinese president in person to crack y'sn on his countri production offense at all. let's hear from sterling, or tenure. caller: good morning. i wanted to respond. there are too many people in prison because of drug using. it's not the answer and wasn't the answer in the crack epidemic. also, this might work, free
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heroin at the morgue. host: why do you say that? to get if a are going themselves on heroin, they have all the first responders. host: evelyn is an fort lauderdale, florida. caller: good morning. my heart is breaking. where is our compassion and spiritual being? addicted.an get i have had to knee replacements. i chose not to take pain meds. this can ease the pain. -- by dr. was very
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happy with my choice. andve had a friend relatives that died from drugs. days?is our compassion is god bless america. host: nat is in baltimore. for c-span.k you you have had some very cogent responses, including heart of what i was going to speak about her and -- about. likeg a rehab center gentlemen mentioned, i don't take the cap should be mixed with regular military boot camp. i do believe there should the strict regulations on the theors that are writing
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preponderance of prescriptions if they were prosecuted for overprescribing. i believe it would slow it down. marijuana, everyone in state government all over the united states are making money on that area -- that. bad, theds are so thing that has to be done is a sharp reduction in prescriptions. will heal this if one or two are prosecuted. this piece is also in the washington post. is taking thefda
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opioid crisis seriously. robert in california, good morning. caller: good morning.
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dental.y medical and i went to get a tooth pulled five years ago. prescription of vicodin with 60 pills and it. day and said next it was way too strong for me. doctorssis of it is the and the prescriptions and your own personal responsibility. host: what about the drug makers? caller: included. that thed just say drive-through flu shot up the over., people are pulling
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store,y said the grocery i was given way too much blood pressure medicine at one point. there is zero follow-up by the doctors. anybody from the doctors office ever call you and ask you after you change medication? no. the doctors are prescribing the drugs and off you go with your 60 vicodin. host: you might be interested in this piece in the new yorker. thatitle is the family built an empire of pain. their ruthless marketing has generated billions of dollars and millions of addicts. and thek about family
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they arer reports that one of the richest families with a net worth of $13 billion. you can read that story if you
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go to the new yorker.com. kevin, good morning to you. caller: good morning to you. i've got quite a bit of experience with the opioids. spine for blew out my the first time and was butchered nine orthopedic surgeon. i have had 30 surgeries. in constant pain. it's nearly impossible in southern indiana to find anybody that is willing to treat anybody in chronic pain. realize forle don't written, theytion are written in triplicate and times a year four
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by the government. the government knows exactly which doctors are prescribing to which people how many pills and have known that since the 80's there are two problems. you've got too many young people getting prescribed pain pills too early. you'vethey have not on through h suffering to get them. you've got the heroine problem. since the taliban has been overthrown in afghanistan, opium production has gone up 400%. the cia and the military is using that heroine to impact iran and also the soviet union. they are pumping it into those countries. they are using it to bond the
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their black ops. you have people in their 60's and 70's that are getting cut off their pain medicine. i think what you've got to understand is right now there are people who are dead written, -- bedridden, they can't leave their houses. i've got no pain relief. i have had every modality of treatment for pain in the last 35 years. the only thing that works for me is morphine. i am willing to go to a psychologist, a pain specialist, orthopedic specialist, neurosurgeons. i am so closely monitored that right now i can't get anything to help my pain. enough, you going to have
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the option of laying in bed or throwing yourself off the top of a parking garage. maybe people will have some apathy and compassion. thing, it as a darwinian if you lose the people that are prone to addiction, they are eliminated from the gene will and we won't have this problem. host: mark is in ohio. the 70's when i was in high school, i used to watch white people pass out using pills. with an nothing to do abuse. it's about white people. like the guy said, when crack cocaine came around, people were incarcerated.
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that's what needs to happen now. white people abusing their privilege and getting away with stuff. this has nothing to do with anything else did if they started throwing his people in jail because that's what you did this.ck people, . -- this will stop. drugblaming it on manufacturers. it's white people using the drugs they want to use and getting the drugs legalized that they want to use instead of doing the right thing. through these people in jail like you did everybody else. host: these are the headlines of the news
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[captions copyright national cable satellite corp. 2017] host: you have the charleston gazette mail in west virginia, the state needs money for fights against opioid emergencies. then you have the lexington herald leader in kentucky. trump declares opioid emergency. those are some of the states across the country. leader inhe herald kentucky. we had hal rogers on the program yesterday any talk about -- and he talked about the opioid situation in his state. leader of the democrats, nancy pelosi in the house and the democrat from california held her weekly news conference and this is what she had to say about the president's action yesterday. >> what i would say to the
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president on that is, show me the money. we passed a bill that had opioids in it but instead, the president set a budget that cuts medicaid which is a major funder of how we address opioids. the governor of ohio pointed it out clearly. theis budget, he cut funding for the mental health agency that's here to address those needs. means he an emergency can have access to some funds but the funds in that account are like $58,000. show me the money. ok, we all agree. passed a 21st-century cures act and we all agree this is a place we have to go.
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i had the speaker write me a letter that we would continue to have the funding in the appropriations bill. doesresidents statement not say anything about the money. the opioid epidemic is in every district in the country. in aan't say as people certain area where it's warmer or colder or whatever. it's across the country. hopefully, the concerns of our manifested inl be the allocation of resources. you have to have the resources. house minority leader nancy pelosi reacting to the president declaring a public health emergency for the opioid crisis. reports thek times" designation formally made by eric hargan would allow for some grant money to fight opioid abuse.
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that is what the president laid out yesterday. what is your reaction? david in georgia, good morning. caller: good morning and thank you for c-span. i have been impacted by pain relief. i contracted cancer in my tonsils. i went through a prehistoric
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treatment of radiation. i refused chemo because i saw my goe who has since passed through all the treatments. ,e have in our country oncologist and pharmaceutical the treatmenting which is worse than the disease. i am concerned about is a lot of misinformation. about three years ago, the burden of regulating people and their use or abuse of patent medicines that are prescribed was put on the pharmacy itself. i wouldn't want my doctor to feel like his hands are tied about prescribing my pain relief. there is no pain like cancer pain. was put on the pharmacy which came up with them opioid for 30 days limit.
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rural place. having a friendly relationship with my doctor and pharmacist, i understand it and was able to actually start leaning myself off of this and still get pain relief. interested in that previous caller from california who broke down the cdc numbers where she is correct. the person has as many as three drugs in a system which results in death, each one of those drugs are counted as a separate death. so the numbers are skewed for sensationalism. i think the president has taken the right approach. it's not up to him or missed it's up to her and the
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rest of congress to get together. host: the distinction is that if he had declared a national emergency, it would have freed of funds from fema. would have been additional money on top of what is already designated for the opioid situation. the way the president speaks said something to puerto rico not too long ago that it was going to cost a lot. release fundsonly for things like opioid addiction. look what is happening in our country and the amount of resources that has to go to address these national disasters that are weather-related. leave it there but next week, wednesday, november
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1, the fema administrator will testify before congress about fema's preparedness to respond to all of these natural disasters and other emergencies. this is the front page of "the wall street journal."
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also this morning, the front page of "the new york times." here is "the wall street journal." take a look at the models that haven't built along the southern border.
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these are all proposed border walls. the completed prototypes were unveiled yesterday. the state of the proposed wall which would stretch new barriers along a 2000 mile border is in doubt. congress is not approved funding in california is challenging the project in court and some will live on the border object to the wall. the prototypes which cost about $450,000 each on average work a four by money already in the u.s. department of homeland security coffers. you can find more of that in the papers this morning.
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times" hasnew york the story about bob menendez, his corruption trial. let's go back to our conversation with all of you about the opioid crisis in this country. it's good to landon in richmond, virginia, good morning to you. caller: how are you doing? i was listening to do what different people said. i was a letter carrier in the city of richmond on easter walk through all kinds of neighborhoods, nice neighborhoods, projects. disheartening when you
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talked to a lot of people in those areas. i don't care whether it was rich white or poor people or or black, you came upon the same thing. you get to know these people and you find out somebody in the house is on drugs. a job in any had thing you know, he was sick and on drugs. that need drugs, some people have pain, that's not the problem. peopleblem is you have that don't need drugs who are trying to find something in life so they use drugs in the place learning how to deal with life. i blame the churches. they don't offer much for people.
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people want solace. they want to feel good. what trump did yesterday was nice, a day late and a dollar short. washington, d.c. was crackdown crack town in 1999. it was never done it in washington dc. a comedian said you could stand and look across the potomac at the city and you knew what was going on in washington, d.c. did not justdemic sneak up on us. this has been going on for 30 or -- iars where people watched the white people have the best drugs and i washed people buy drugs on the corner. buyin the world could you
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drugs from some guy standing on the corner? if he was selling food, you would not fool with someone like that. drugs are real. i tell everybody that if you have to take all these different drugs, don't let somebody in the house find these drugs that are left over. this is what happens. try toet the young kids sniffing glueh by or smoking cigarettes or drinking whiskey. all of these are drugs. this is something that is going on in american culture. you cannot put people in jail. people you are horrible and this is pathetic and pitiful. host: i will leave it there and
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senator and the viewers joe mansion, democrat of west virginia, his state impact in by this opioid situation. here is what he had to say in washington yesterday. >> it's a pandemic in any other round. we lost 200,000 americans. that's worse than any worsens world war ii. we would be rallying the troops. need to get everybody involved, all hands on deck. we have not done that. when you look back in the 1980's, the veterans administration was trying to make sure they were taking care of the returning veterans and soldiers. then the pain threshold became the fifth element of wellness. here comes a company called
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purdue pharma with oxycontin that gives you 24 hours relief. fda, here's a government agency saying we've got a product that was approved. it does what it's supposed to do so you think it's safe. the dea is allowing it to be distributed, the drug enforcement agency. then you have your doctor who was a most trusted person in your family member saying this will help you. they legitimized it. government, the most trusted person in your family, it's all been legitimized. host: what do you think of what he had to say? mark in indiana, good morning to you. caller: good morning and thanks for having me. it's laughable what he said. the government is part of it as far as the problem. the only solutions to stop the
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production. we don't need more money. go to the will just people making the money anyway like the pharmaceutical companies and the government fosters that. everything being rolled out, this is going to make the pharmaceutical companies more money. about ifuy was talking you go deeper, the sackler made the oxycontin at purdue pharma. they went as far as this is so own thet they peer-reviewed journals that the reviews appeared in. they own the research itself. it was all falsified. host: where did you read that? there is one american who has been fighting this a long time and that's david duke. him being called a
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racist. he's just a white christian trying to do the right thing. i wasthe story referencing early was in the new yorker. the family that build an empire of pain. their ruthless marketing of painkillers engendered billions of dollars and millions of alex. the sackler from -- the sackler family owning purdue pharma. it was created in the 1990's and you can read that on the new yorker.com. david from missouri, good morning. caller: good morning. i wanted to tell people that a category of people out here are being forgotten. that's the ones that have a chronic pain for many years. these are from accidents or disease or whatever is the cost. they have gone through every aspect of going to different
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doctors with tests or whatever. them to thing left for survive in this world is opiates. myself for on the about 35 years. for me, oxycontin is a godsend. i have never gone to the street for drugs ever. why this parttand of the people is being forgotten, the ones that have of problems with this. the problem is the illegal use of drugs. we are being put in the same category as those. it does not make any sense to me. we get thrown under the bus because of the other people that did not handle it right. that was david's take on it.
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let's go to howard in california, good morning. caller: good morning. how are you doing? first time talking to you. host: glad you called in? . caller: i have dealt with this problem for 25 years and have been give it added dosages of painkillers. fentanyl almost killed me. the only way to get away from the drugs is just to get off of them and it involves a few days of discomfort and additional pain which is not easy for -- who are already dealing with pain but that's the only way off. host: what do you think about the non-abstinence drugs, drugs that have an opioid in them, have a painkiller in them and people use them to slowly get
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themselves off of whatever drug they were using. it doesn't make any difference. you're going to go through withdrawals matter what. for people in pain, it's very hard to deal with. one of the things they are talking about right now is where is the money. the money doesn't solve the problem. the only way to solve it is to get yourself off. easy especially for people who are dealing with pain. and i've beenpain on these medications for 20 years. it's about the people who are in control when you are taking these medications and if they decide to cut you off, they leave you with no options. was say takeey did no pills and call me in the morning after having prescribed
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these pills to you for 20 years or more. it's kind of warped and that's why you have these people haveng in who are saying i been doing this forever and it's the only way i can survive. me that thetelling same people who have been giving you the medications for all this time are now telling you that this is not what we should be doing. it's kind of warped. it's not about money. it's about support and having to about almost a week of serious pain with spasms and other problems you have, having the physical problems you are but it's notl with going to be about the money. host: let's go to tom in baltimore. what do you think? caller: i think it's amazing how quickly people are willing to give up their rights as
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law-abiding citizens because some people are abusing something. if this were a gun issue, people would be screaming about not to givep their rights up a firearm to protect my family because some people use firearms illegally. there is no difference here. we have a constitution in this country. we have laws. we don't punish law-abiding -- for what those those who would break the law would do. as far as this problem is concerned, these pills are addictive. butn't mean this as a dig do you know why they are addicting? where do you get your information? host: why do you ask the question? there is aause difference between physical dependence and addiction.
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opioids arethat addictive. most people who throw that out there simply don't know what they are talking about. callerway, and earlier gave you some misleading statistics that the government puts out. let me give you some real numbers. this is not the first time the federal government has played around with numbers. they do it for their benefit so they can make money at the expense of the citizenry. , youcember, the cdc mentioned this statistic earlier, and the white house released three different estimates of how many americans overdoses15 from linked to prescription opioids. within one week, you've got the government giving out three different numbers. evolveddose numbers
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down to 12,000, seven hundred and went back up again. there is your government accuracy. planning a sports game, we would call it moving the goalposts. host: do you not believe it's an epidemic? what do you think should be done? absolutely not. i have spent a career in law enforcement. we had violence on the streets of america and police dying and innocent citizens dying and children dying because of this drug war. whene not learn our lesson we dealt with prohibition? if you look at statistics, your staff can look at what the murder rate was before prohibition, during prohibition and after. do the same study when it comes to the war on drugs.
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as far as an epidemic is concerned, let me give you other numbers -- tobacco deaths, 6 million per year. alcohol deaths, 2,000,400,000 per year. 1,000,300,000. -- that stands head and shoulders above what the opioids have claimed to taken in terms of lives. host: we will leave it there. for you thisews morning -- "usa today" africa is the new frontline on terror. there is a new york times piece this morning that takes a look at what's left under the islamic
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states of control. if you look at this map, the blue represents the losses for isis. in the middle east in syria and iraq. the are and represents the number of strategic cities, towns, and resources the islamic state has gained or lost control of in each month. they say the offense of in raaqa that began in june displaced about 270,000 residents. the airstrikes were killing hundreds of civilians every month. nonprofit group tracks the civilian deaths and a cording to the report, the coalition has confirmed deaths. the islamic state has lost to its most important cities in three months. in july of this year, the iraqi government announced it have finally retaken control of multiple after three years of -- ul after threeos
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years. coming up, we will be talking about sexual harassment in this country. this is the style section of "the washington post." listed, who's next? we will talk about sexual harassment in the workplace and get your thoughts on that coming "the washington journal." first, couple of more calls on the opioid crisis. reginald in houston, texas, good morning. theer: yes ma'am, i had displeasure of working in the mid-80's when the crack of the bit on -- when the crack epidemic was in full effect. it affected black minorities where was not a health emergency, it was a criminal justice emergency. we had people who were sentenced to three times the sentence for crack at a little
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bit of cocaine in it. why wasn't that called a health emergency? it was because of blacks. we should have dealt with it as a health problem like they want to with the opioids. it's appalling that barack obama last year when the dea, when he signed that into effect to enforce the opioid addiction. we should have looked at that were you have minorities and you basicpioids with the effect in white america and rural america dealt with differently. it should have been a serious crisis when the crack epidemic was in force. states,a, the united when they killed qadhafi in libya when we did drone strikes, we created a crisis in africa like we did in the middle east and it's appalling.
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on to thomasmove in humboldt, texas. what are your thoughts? caller: merry christmas. as far as the crisis, you have a policy where its three strikes you are out so regardless of who you are, it will affect you. the israelis to the study on pain. it, you need to legalize marijuana and prevent some of this useless death. have a good one. host: ok, for the remainder of weay's "washington journal," will focus on sexual harassment in the united states and ways to prevent it. join his first ha will beifeld um.om, -- chai feldbl
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then later, emily martin of the national women's law center discusses private sector efforts to combat sexual harassment. newsmakers interviewed the new president of the naacp. he talks about the here, he talks about the reason the naacp issued a travel advisory to african-americans about flying on american airlines. the --ecognize that is that it is a powerful toll to inform our members and constituents about concerns we have identified as an organization. with the travel advisory on american airlines, our goal is to make sure our members will be notified that there is a pattern we have identified. sure when they utilize their dollars to plan somethings, this is that has risen to a level.
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the business community and our supporters have are plotted our --roach -- have a plotted our approach in this matter. that is something i will continue to do in my tenure as naacp president. type of response have you received from american airlines and the airline industry after the travel advisory? only heard from american airlines. they reached out and yesterday our general counsel spoke to them. of the company has since reached out and we plan to get on the phone and talk. sure thats to make our members are aware of what we have identified as a pattern, but to work with the company to ensure that the necessary sensitivities around diversity for african-americans is on the
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forefront of their employees minds. that whencognize these incidents take place, it could be a result of the lack of diverse city in the decision-making positions of the company, it could be a lack of diversity among the ploy -- among the employees or the sensitivity on how a company makes decisions. " continues.journal joining us is the commissioner of the equal employment opportunity commission here to help us about our conversation about sexual-harassment and the work place. eeoc and how does this agency play a role in preventing sexual harassment in the workplace? the eeoc was created in the 1964 civil rights act.
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an independent agency to enforce on discrimination in the workplace based on sex grade one of the prohibited acts is to sexually harass someone. is takewhat we do charge when someone has experienced harassment, we investigate, we try to settle them. we have helped thousands of women get harassment to stop in their workplace, often getting money damages even before they have to go to court. the other role we have is outreach and education. we are trying to stop harassment before it happens. we do training and other things along those lines. host: what is sexual-harassment? how do you define it? guest: there are two definitions. one is illegal sexual harassment
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and that is harassment that is severe, like physical touching, or what is called pervasive, it happens continuously. that is what you need to get to the level of illegal harassment. from the eeoc perspective, we want to stop harassment before it becomes illegal under the law. that means stopping any unwelcome sexual conduct. that is asking for sexual favors or pushing for sexist,avors as well as grading comments. comments.ng host: does the harasser have to be a supervisor? guest: there are stricter rules on the employer if the harassment is a supervisor, but
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a harasser can be a coworker, and that has to stop or the employer will be reliable, the harasser can be a client and if the employer knows about it that has to stop. a harasser can be anyone in the workplace and if you are experiencing unwelcome conduct of a sexual nature or of a sexist nature, you should be able to get your employer to stop it. in an ideal world you should really get your employer to stop it. host: we are talking about just the federal workplace -- the eeoc covers the private workplace as well. guest: yes. we were created to implement the 1964 civil rights act. that was the major civil rights act in this country saying to private employers, any employer with 15 or more employees, you may not discriminate waste on on race,based
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religion, national origin, sex, disability or age. this is any private employer with more than 15 employees is subject to this law. has 53c has 50 feet -- offices around the country ready to help anyone who has experienced discrimination. you go to the website eeoc.gov, there is an 800 number. we will do everything we can. host: how does a federal agency stop sexual harassment in the private work place? guest: the law is set to govern the private workplace and you can bring your employer to court and get the court to stop it or we can come in and try to settle it before. let's be clear. the law can only do so much. we as a government enforcement
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agency can only do so much. we can do a lot -- millions of dollars we have gotten for women in cases -- but that is still the tip of the iceberg. there is something new that we are doing. we are trying to get out to employers and say we will work with you to stop this bad behavior from happening before it becomes illegal. two weeks ago we rolled out a new type of training, respectful workplace is training for employees and supervisors to teach people how to be respectful in the workplace, to teach supervisors how to deal with the complaint. most supervisors, if someone comes forward and says, john is sexually harassing me, john is asking me for a date and i've
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told him no and he keeps coming on to me, have training so that supervisor takes that complaint as a gift. instead of saying i do not want to start my day with this complaint, instead to teach that supervisor to say thank you for coming forward and being brave enough to come forward and here's what i'm going to do to deal with that. most supervisors are not going to know how to do that unless they are trained. in the new training we just rolled out is designed to treat that. host: our phone lines are lighting up. we have divided the lines by women and men great dial in on your lines. we want to know what you think. dblum, the usael today has the headline "the weinstein affect." 'sw many cases does the eeoc
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the related to sexual harassment each year and has the number gone up in recent weeks? guest: it takes a while for charges to come in so i cannot say whether charges have come up. i can tell you there is been a four fold increase in our web traffic on the issue of sexual harassment. people are looking for information. we get about 12,000 charges a harassment,based the reality is that most people do not ever even bring the legal charge. most people stay silent. peopleearch shows 15% of will openly file a legal charge. our number is not at all the large number that is out there. a statistic that was sobering to with myi worked
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republican colleagues on a study of workplace harassment, that report is on our website as well, it turns out that about 70% of people who experienced harassment in the workplace never tell anybody in the workplace -- they tell their friends and family, but they never complain, not to their supervisor or hr. most people stay silent and they are staying silent because they are afraid of what will happen to them if they come forward with their complaint. they know that complaint is not going to be treated as a gift, thank you for coming forward. we have to change that culture. host: do you think it is changing with the weinstein affect? this is an abc/washington post poll that was just taken. a sharp increase in americans who say sexual harassment is a serious problem.
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in 2011, 40 7% said it was a serious problem. now, 64%. guest: people of asked me whether i think this is a tipping point. i say we need two tipping points. the first tipping point is in naming the problem. hashtag has been so important. tipping point is speaking out. the second tipping point has to be change. actual change that employers make in their workplaces so women and men -- 16% of our charges come from men -- so people feel safe and coming out. that is the second tipping point. i am hopeful we are getting there. the first tipping point will bring us to the second.
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it has to be sustained and it has to be because employers step action, reachegic out to the eeoc as well as other partners, to actually make a change. host: will have a conversation "ere on the "washington journal for the next few hours. she had the nail right on the head. that pushed me right out of the workplace because i was afraid the men would continue to do what they were doing to me. it got to the point where i was menafraid to even work with because i knew the kind of things they were doing and they were not getting in trouble for. it made it where even if i told, it would still see my fault because i was looking too pretty
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that day. maybe i was walking a different way. i never could figure out why they always did that to me. it got me to a point where i was too afraid to even venture into an opportunity that involved a man. host: when was this happening, what years? caller: up until maybe last year? last year was the last straw, his privateulled part out directly in front of me. it was so creepy that all i could do was grabbed my stuff and leave and i never went back because it creeped me out so bad. i am too old to keep going through this. it has been happening all through my 20's, 30's, 40's, here i am 50 years old, they are still doing it.
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i cannot take it anymore. keep -- if ich to want to work, i have to deal with the creepiness of a man. like, listen, you could find something with all women. that is a hard job to find. you're never going to find that. mostly men are in every position. a woman is not safe. it is not of the woman to say i do not trust this guy, he is making me uncomfortable. you do not do that. you bow out gracefully. guest: this is precisely the story we do not want to have our daughters and granddaughters having to deal with. we want to stop it now for everybody, whether you're 50, 40, 30, 20, or 15.
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the survey shows that most women do not report -- why not? because of fear. the first fears they will not be believed, it will be trivialized, they will say what were you doing, let's talk about your part in this. fear of being blamed. ,hen fear of nothing happening which is clearly what has happened in so many work places. third, even if something does happen, you are lucky to be in a place with a stop the harassment, fear of retaliation, professional or social. how do we stop this fear, we have this story not happen? the employer, the person who is running that business has to realize that it is costly to the business cannot find out if harassment is happening and to
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stop it. the one cost that businesses often think about is if i get sued, i will have to spend money. that is true. are in direct financial causes that are happening to businesses across this country every day. those are the costs on workplace productivity and health of the target of the harassment, someone who is seeing the target and had been working at to this have feltd also uncomfortable. job turnover -- people leave, if they can, economically. businesseser level, are losing good people to their competitors at the level they are not as caring as much as their people, it still affects them if someone gets up and leaves and they have to hire someone else. there is a huge human, moral, and financial cost to employers
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not taking proactive steps to finding out what is going on and stopping it. we have to stop it. morning.hy, good caller: thank you so much for having me on the show. i'm very nervous to share my experience, but it has been helpful to hear other women talk about their experiences. i had extreme sexual harassment experience in 1996 when i worked for a large chemical company. out on hisinvited me last day and said there were other people that were going to be there. there were not, it was just him and i. he proceeded to drug my drink in a restaurant and give me against my will for about a day and a half. i did not report it because i blocked it out for almost five
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years. then i finally did work up the nerve to file a police report, did not get anywhere. at one point, i looked them up online and she had some kind of tracking software where he turned around and facebook friend in me out of sarcasm and a type of bullying. i wanted to share was that even though i did not get anywhere legally, it put me on a rocky road where it took a lot of effort on my part but i took my experience and turned it around and made myself strong and i'm now an environmentalist, i'm a political activist and i do the best i can every day to always improve and always learn and now i am sharing and it took toong time, but thank you you, your show, and everyone else who is sharing. host: thank you for calling in this morning.
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what about statutes of limitations? in the employment context, there is a shorter statute of limitations. report, you can file and they should be able to do things even years later. youn employment setting, have a little less than one year from the time the harassment happened to maintain your legal right. 300 days in most states. within that amount of time you have to come to us. if for asthma and has been happening for a long time, the only thing that has to happen within 300 days is the last incident of harassment. that is what matters legally. employers,ess, the they should want to know about something that happened five years ago. not in terms of the legal liability, in terms of the
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economic smartness of trying to stop it. surveys show that the impact on your workforce's health and productivity is huge -- millions of dollars. employers have to realize that even if they do not have a daily ship complaints, they need to remember that 70% of people are not even complaining. if they want to know what is going on in their workplace, they have to do an anonymous survey of their employees. they have to send out an -- send out a survey that says not have you experienced sexual harassment. they have to send a survey that and say or 12 behaviors have you experienced any of these behaviors? academics have figured out these
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surveys. that would let an employer know what is happening and can you imagine the impact on a workforce if they get a survey anonymously, please fill out whether this has happened to you because the leadership of this company cares about making it not happen. the employer will get information and the employer will be sending a message -- enough. we are not going to tolerate this. host: a washington post/abc poll asked this question about two women, if they have at her -- if they have ever received unwanted sexual advances from a man. than half site unwanted sexual advances, including three in 10 from a coworker. when you investigate claims, do you talk to the harasser? guest: yes.
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when someone files a charge, one of the first things we do in many cases is offer free mediation for the employer to andent, the charging party, it could be that as the first time the employer knows about it and can deal with it through the mediation we offer. we will also investigate. investigation means you call witnesses, you start with the employer, the supervisor, we will interview the alleged harasser, what we do is determine whether we think there is reasonable cause to believe discrimination happened. we're not making a final judgment, we are saying we think discrimination happened. if we say we think discrimination happened, we issue a finding of reasonable cause and then we have a more formal settlement procedure. in one year, we got $40 million
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in damages for people who had filed charges, just an informal settlement. takeat settlement does not , if the employer does not settle, then the employees allowed to go to court and continue this in court. we at the eeoc can also bring cases in court. we have brought many cases. we do not have enough resources to do what congress has told us we have to do. congress tells us what to do, does not always give us enough money to do it. we help as many people as we can. often people come through our doors and go from us to court. host: we are talking with commissioner feldblum of the equal opportunity employment commission.
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al in wisconsin, good morning. i think women are being subjected to way too much harassment in the workplace. i'm intimately knowledgeable about the situation. and i affected my family am sorry to say this, the eeoc is a paper tiger because my other half was subjected to over 20 years of stuff like this and it is not being resolved. i am passionate about this. i sympathize with every poor woman that is calling and looking for help and assistance and god bless you, please help them. please stop this. please, gentlemen, wake up and act like gentlemen. treat your other half for your
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fairer sex as an equal because we all deserve fairness that we should give, we should receive. i am sorry to say i do not like the song the beatles did years ago, woman is just a derogatory term. men that feel that way are immature babies. commissioner, when you talk to these alleged harasser's, males, what do they tell you, why do they harass? guest: i am so glad that al noted -- why would not call the -- while i would not call the eeoc a paper tiger, we would be a stronger tiger with more money. part of what we are trying to do help everywe cannot woman and man who comes to us, that is why we try to invest money up front so we can stop
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this from happening. that is why we rolled out this new training. to your question about what our people say -- what do people say? often they just deny it. the investigation turns out that it is true and the action is taken against them. sometimes they do not feel like what they did was wrong. this goes back to training. one of the things we say about training is it is not designed to change your mind, it is designed for you to keep your job. what i mean is, in a two our training, we are not going to convince some guys that it is bad to say to someone every day that you look sexy. -- they my life look say my wife loves it when i say that. you can believe whatever you want, that when you walk into
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this workplace, these are the rules. to not focus on changing beliefs, you focus on changing behavior. it is clear to any man in a workplace, here are the behaviors that are not ok. any policy, any procedure, none of it will work unless there is accountability. that if theyo see act in ways they have been told not to act, there will be consequences. if the guy who had pulled out is the next day was fired, i think that might have affected other people down the line. cases, just hypothetical i cannot comment on any particular case, but there has to be accountability. host: let's hear from mary and rockville, maryland. caller: i am having a bad ptsd attack right now trade i have
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suffered nightmarish harassment my entire life because i grew up horrifically disfigured by my antiabortion mother. i have had horrendous experiences in the workplace, two i wanted to mention. clarence thomas deny me equal pay at the eeoc because he was disgusted by the scars on my faith. he told that to a male colleague after he kicked me out of his office. i had a clear cut open and shut unequal pay case but he would not take it because he cannot stand my looks. warn all the people of the washington, d.c. area about horrific illegal discrimination and harassment that goes on at times"shington newspaper. body shamedically by several people there, men and women because i am disfigured.
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even though i was doing a great job and i saved the paper many times from embarrassing mistakes int would've gone to press the production department and in the legal advertising department. in the legal advertising department, they kept protecting this bill cosby type person who thought he was entitled to have sex with all the attractive women who worked there and he was nasty to women like me who did not meet his standards. even there he told me i was not attractive, he demanded sex in front of other people and i refused and he demanded money. he said i owed him money for putting up with my ugly face. i had a lot of witnesses, i was openly insulted by our trump-like boss. i complained to hr and the hr director admitted she was trying to get me fired and indicated it
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was because she was disgusted with my looks. guns.een threatened with complained about the company, they were fired. he was around -- he was allowed to drink on the job, allowed to look at pornography on his computer. -- our bossnly openly bragged about his own adultery. he said he was going to hire the next person based on her youth and beauty. he never stopped any of the male colleagues from insulting me. because igally fired informed another female coworker whose work was about to double because i was being suspended to cover up for the drinking on the job by the company cosby. host: let me ask the
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commissioner, these are allegations. buys to thisnd collar, to others who might be a similar work place -- what do andadvise to this collar others who might be in a similar workplace? guest: harassment happens on all basis is, not just on sex. this problem of the superstar harasser. that is the person who the company values highly, who brings in a lot of money and sales and they make the wrong cost-benefit analysis -- they decide we have these complaints against this guy, but it is cheaper for a off the people who are complaining and to keep him instead. that is wrong. the research shows that the
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apact, the negative impact on business of keeping a toxic worker of that kind is way greater than getting rid of that person and cleaning up the workplace. what advice can you give? doiously, one can and should what this person and other women have done which is talk to hr, talk to other supervisors. none of that is going to help if the hr folks have not been told by the top leadership, when you get this complaint, we want you to say thank you. that is a problem, we're going to try to fix it. it has got to come from the top. it does not help for me to tell someone to complain to a supervisor at that supervisor is going to be rewarded for sweeping it under the rug. we have to shift the workplace culture so that supervisor knows
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that he or is going to be evaluated at the end of the year for how receptively they responded to a complaint and did something. before to change that life is going to be different for anyone who wants to complain. feldblum, we have to say goodbye. our conversation will continue with our callers on the "washington journal." where should people go on your website? you go to eeoc.gov, right on the home page it says where to file complaint. you can also google eeoc harassment report, it will bring you to the page at the eeoc where we have a number of whatrces to let you know is illegal, how you can fire a
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charge -- how you can file a charge, what we can do to help you. togethers have to come to try to demand more of our workplaces and change the workplace culture. host: thank you for your time. guest: thank you. host: our conversation continues on sexual harassment in the workplace with more of your calls and facebook postings coming up. hang on the line. later on, we will talk with emily martin of the national women's law center to discuss private sector efforts to combat sexual harassment. we will be right back. we are in our 22nd year of the book festival. it was founded in 1995 by then first lady laura bush and pretty amazing group of dedicated
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volunteers who decided we need to have a book festival in austin, texas, to celebrate texas authors and literacy and to support our texas libraries. since those early years, the book festival has exploded. it are quickly became a national premier destination for the biggest books of the year. the texasook tv for book festival live from austin saturday and sunday, november 4 and fifth on c-span2. this week on "q&a." >> their target was charles murray. i was behind him. it looked like he was going to fall the ground. ofwas at the time 74-year-old man. i did what any decent human being would do when you see a 74-year-old man on the verge of falling to the ground.
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i grabbed him by the arm. it was a large -- i was fearful of being separated from them and left behind. i took his arm and when i did that, that is when it turned on me. someone pulled my hair, someone body slammed me. >> middlebury college professor talks about a violent protester followed by a scheduled lecture by charles murray. >> "washington journal" continues. we are back with our conversation on sexual harassment in the workplace. effect is the headline in the "usa today" money section. years past, powerful men busted for prying on women could pay off large sums in legal
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settlements or issue public promises to reform and keep doing what they are doing. women breaking the culture of silence are putting pressure on the companies and industries to crack down on sexual misconduct in the workplace. that is our conversation with all of you. jeremy in vermont, what do you think? guysr: i want to thank you for doing this, it is an excellent conversation. it is an issue that affects all genders. i did want to commend all the people that have spoke about personal situations. this was to the issue reported career, i in my worked in a major american and i had a manager that i got along with excellently, there was an
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awkward situation where he came on to me and i rebuffed his advances. -- after that,t my work situation completely changed. i was let go shortly after that. it was not until years later that i realized that. i wanted to speak to that. that it ishat often women that are affected. i do know that in a lot of workplace situations women are judged by their looks and even some women go along with the behavior and management positions with a go along attitude, but it does affect all genders and i wanted to speak to that. host: the commissioner of the eeoc said about 16% of their claims come from men. you're absolutely right. kathleen in brooklyn, maryland. caller: i wanted to speak with
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the commissioner. a few years ago i worked at a federal agency and a supervisor was sexually harassing women. he focused on me for a time and i finally got tired of it. he became the director of a field office and he was very well-respected -- he was feared. he hired a lot of people that were not qualified for the positions they had. i did go to hr and i filed a formal complaint and i was sent into a room with an interview with a man with a knife who almost cut my throat. then i was arrested and taken to court and at the court no one showed up from the agency to rebut my charge of being sexually harassed almost to death. eeoc.gency was the
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harassed a female lawyer and she got them on tape and he lost him his job and pension of 32 years. it has been going on a long time. until everybody realizes this is against the law and against morality that they claim to love so much, this is not going to stop. host: what year was that? from 1980is went on until 1992 when i finally quit because i was going to be arrested every day. my boss was not going to stop. once he found that he -- once he found that i had filed a former creighton -- once he found that i'd filed a formal complaint. kathleen says that until people realize this is against the law, it will continue.
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this is title vii of the civil rights act of 1964, a federal law that prohibits employers from discriminating against employees. it generally applies to employers with 15 or more employees. it applies to private and public colleges and universities, employment agencies, and labor organizations. york, welcome to the conversation. caller: i'm in red banks, new jersey. know there are things were people get abused. -- go into family court and see how men are abused by women. there are plenty of jobs like teachers and nurses that are filled with women.
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police officers are totally meant. we never had a problem. now we are having a problem in the workplace with people associating with each other. everybody is so afraid of each other because of all this bs that is going on. there are people being harassed and if somebody is harassed or physically abused, that is one thing. then there is the law. the law says you cannot hurt somebody else. it is not about men and women. society is getting crazy. host: you do not think this is a cultural issue? certain wayact a and women act a certain way in nature. you can see it in other species. guys are things where going to cap call women.
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my mother used to own a beauty salon and women are so dirty when they are together and they get abusive to the man. my mother used to abuse my father like crazy, call him all kinds of names in front of his friends, and i see the abuse go the other way. now all you see is women yelling about men like that lady who was .aying he was trump-like what do you mean he was trump-like? all the women around trump love him. maybe he got caught on the locker room talk, all guys talk like that locker room talk. women do the same thing. i hung out in beauty salons. my friend tells dirty jokes. all the women go around him to listen to the dirty jokes. the: cnn has a story about law, title vii of the 1964 civil rights act.
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they know that there is a patchwork of state laws that govern sexual harassment as well. in new york there is a law that title vii only implies to companies with 15 or more employees. joann in madison, alabama. caller: i am old. i worked all my life, and i never had any of this going on. my mother did not raise a fool. when somebody did something inappropriate, i said do it again and i -- do it again and you lose a hand. not know about this woman who called in about trump. i am a hard-core republican and every woman i know has the same view that i do. you are not a punching bag, turn around and say something. women look at democratic
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just like those kids in college, ,undreds and hundreds of them they are really young. what you expect to receive? stand up and tell them the first time it happens and you put it on hold forever. host: what about women who need a job and are not in position of power? caller: i was never in power. i was just a lowly little office worker. i worked in a nursing home. i never saw anything ugly going on in the nursing home. whenever you get with people and we have good working relationships and we get along, this does not happen. state out of the women's organizations and you will be better off.
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-- stay out of the women's organizations and you will be better off. host: here's a piece that was written for "the guardian." it used eeoc data to look at claims by age group and by gender. women age 25 to 34 were most at risk. overall numbers are low because they only take into account claims made to the eeoc. doris in washington. good morning. caller: i've a comment that probably you're not going to like. i want to know when you're going to protect the men against these women. card my social security when i was 14, i lied about my age. you had to be 16 before you get a social security card. i want to work at 14.
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the first job i applied for was an usher in the theater. he line five of us girls up, we always wore long sleeves -- long slacks. never anything short. first thing he said to us was pull up your skirt. they pulled them up. i did not. then he told them a little higher. door.ed out the , hey you. he said you have got the job. and everyouched me time i leave that cash every time i left the theater i stuck my tongue out. he would stick his tongue out at me. i would have to go up in his office after i got promoted selling tickets and he never did
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anything to make. he sure did the other girls. that is because they allow that. host: he doesn't bear any accountability? caller: let me ask you something. how may homes do you think some of these women breakup. they know their boss is married but they break the families up. they are every bit as bad as the men. they have their equal rights but you're supposed to treat them like a lady. they want to be treated just like a man. they cannot take it, they pull the lady act on you. women are 10 times as specious as a man. this conversation about sexual harassment has grown in recent weeks because of the news weinstein.
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being put outons there from bill o'reilly, bill others.tc. and has grown one too social media and the nbc "meet the press" had female senators tell their stories recently. take a look. [video clip] a baby law professor and so excited to have my first real teaching job. there was a senior faculty member who would tell dirty jokes and make comments about my appearance. he asked me if i would stop by his office, which i did not think much about. i did and he slammed the door and longed for me, like a bad cartoon.
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he is chasing me around the desk trying to get his hands on me. i kept saying you do not want to do this, i have little children at home. please do not do this. .rying to talk calmly at the same time, what was flickering through my brain is if he gets hold of me, i'm going to punch him right in the face. >> i was a very young state legislator in my 20's and i was single and i was nervous about getting my first bill out of committee. i cautiously approached the powerful speaker of the missouri house of representatives. did he have any advice for me about how i could get it out of committee? he looked at me and he deposit and he said did you bring your knee pads? when i started out as north dakota's attorney general, one of the most significant things i
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wanted to do was change the dynamic of domestic violence and i had an event when i was speaking and a law-enforcement official came up and put his finger in my face and said, listen here, men will always beat their wives and you cannot stop them. after several rounds i jumped for the door and got out. i went back to my office and i just sat and shook. tohought, what had i done bring this on? , told my best friend about it never said a word to anyone else. time i wore a lot of brown. u.s. senator's talking stories, thee too hashtag that is taken off in recent days.
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that is our conversation with you. there is news on this front. cnn will report this week that several women have come out and said that mark halperin when he was at abc sexually harassed them. "the washington post" had one of those women on the record this morning. one of his accusers says he sexually assaulted her. the follow-up from the cnn report has been swift. canceled a has miniseries based on game change. halperin is leaving his role. women claim they have experienced unwelcome contact by halperin since the mid-1990's. all but may spoke on the condition of anonymity to describe their encounters. the women who spoke to the
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-- he said he was most a low leveld to position, but an important step in a highly competitive business. out of 60 people who were interviewed, halperin selected 11 women, all of them young, attractive, well-educated, and ambitious. it was a big deal to be chosen by someone so powerful, one woman said. ton you're 23 and 24 and get cover an election and report to him, that is a big deal. halperin's misbehavior was an open secret according to a cnn reporter who formerly worked at abc. let's go to kelly in bloomfield, west virginia. i know that it is
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probably still going on and a lot of your bigger companies. i work for a bigger company and it is not tolerated at all. there is a change happening in the companies. not even vocal is tolerated where i work. training --ind of what message was sent from the leadership in your company that you know that is not tolerated? was a guy that told a dirty joke and the lady heard the joke, she reported it, it was taken to the office and -- he was taken to the office and let go immediately, and sore butts. or buts., ands, host: jane, you are on the air.
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caller: it seems the potential swings from decade to decade. too.a hashtag me aen i was applying for promotion, a man told me you can in los angeles because the women are so opposed to having sex. i said that has nothing to do with applying for a job, i reported him and nothing was done. 10 years in the future, a cartoon was in a magazine and this older woman at the time complained she was being sexually harassed by the newspaper. crazy and we can no longer get that newspaper at work. while.mes petty after a issues, the issues i
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encounter in many other women are encountering are flooded with a little petty things. there has to be a balance in all of this. the women who call in and say, it is the women's fault. there is no way it could be the women's fault. however they dress, however they want, however they talk has nothing to do with power and taking advantage of women in the workplace. we heardt about what from some callers, some women who say you have to stand up for yourself and walk out? caller: yes, of course. i did not get the job, i told the guy know. nothing was done, no one did anything about it. you have to fight back, you cannot be afraid of the repercussions. by walking out, you did
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not get the job. what kind of job was it, how much money? $10,000, atas about that time, more than i was making. i was not going to compromise myself. i did take this to our hr, i did complain and they said i was mistaken. really? me too onhashtag their front page. they write that 1.3 6 million tweets referencing hashtag me too grew rapidly. this is the number that use the throughfrom sunday thursday. 1.3 6 million tweets on that.
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ohio.go to gail and everyone seems to have forgotten about al gore sexually assaulting -- in hotels and bill clinton. i do not hear anyone talking about them anymore. host: why you think it is important to bring it up? they seem to mostly be conservatives like bill o'reilly and donald trump. host: harvey weinstein was a big democratic donor. caller: yeah. they seem to of jumped from him back to bill o'reilly for some reason. nevadaob in carson city, . welcome to the conversation. caller: that collar who said the
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eeoc is a toothless tiger is correct. caller who-- the said the women are 10 times more vicious than the men are also correct. harassed and monterey, california, in 1987 by a woman who broke up the vice president of at&t, his home, and married the guy. she became my boss and she moved from santa cruz to monterey and brought her assassins crew with her. i lost a job because of it. it?: bob, did you report caller: no. these were powerful people. i reported it to the union. they came to meet and said,
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look, you have to stop recording what people say to you. i was carrying around a recorder. .hat was my livelihood they do not care about a $50,000 a year employee. bob in carson city, nevada with his story. we'll take a short break and when we come back emily martin of the national women's law center is going to be taking your questions about private sector efforts to combat sexual katzsment and then jackson will be discussing sexual harassment and sexual prevention education programs. we will be right back.
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a slave auction block, auctioneer stand. could definitely feel the ourt -- power of this place and the auction site is why this place is so powerful. this would have been the last place men, women and children ould have been with their families. after this place, they would the been scattered across united states. this is ground zero for that experience here. 8, interview with istorian william seale, on the sto masons who built the white house. front door over the lillies and h front, very lush over the door. probably the finest example of hundredin america for a years. >> american history t.v., all c-span every weekend on
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3. >> "washington journal" continues. host: we continue on here this orning with our conversation harassment.l the national women's law center in washington, d.c. is here, you for tin, thank being here. what role does the national women's law center play in this sexual tion about harassment uest: we are a women's rights advocacy organization, engage with policy makers at the to ral level and the states strengthen legal protection against harassment. the courts, e in arguing for robust thatpretations of the laws protect women from harassment nd we recently launched legal network for gender equity to help connect women who are harassment and other forms of discrimination with attorneys willing to take
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cases on. host: is that your recommendation? if a woman has been harassed, immediately get a lawyer? guest: well, i think that it is often really help to feel have a sense of what your rights are, mean you immediately go to court and file a complaint. there often are other strategies that make sense as a first step, informaltalking to your support networks, friend, what es, strategize responses might be productive here. bringing complaint internally to hr, often is the appropriate first step. but if you have the ability to to an attorney to get an understanding of whether this is not and what would happen if you did file a legal complaint, that information is helpful. host: what legal obligation does a al resource necessary company have when you go, when somebody were to go to them with harassment claim?
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guest: human resources should do human stigation and if resources doesn't investigate a sexual harassment complaint, the employer is open to liability. since the obligation of human is to determine whether there was harassment and occurred. it, if it legal obligations are slightly different if it is a coworker visor, the er overall story, the law expects and to oyer to respond nvestigate and to disappoint harasser appropriately if there was harassment. to equal goes employment commission, the eeoc? where you go c is legal want to pursue a complaint. you can do that instead of going your employer, but under the law, if you haven't availed
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complaint some system that the employer has and you don't have a good reason for barrier for your success in court. events isal course of that someone would complain to h.r., go through whatever system, and then if there wasn't bring a te resolution, charge to the eeoc, a pretty simple process. is a form you fill out saying this happened to me this, details loyer, give about what happened and the eeoc has the opportunity to investigate it. is overburdened, a rstretched, it can sit for long time f. after a certain right of time, you have a to go to court. that is how the legal process is set up. obviously in individual situations, there may be reasons why that doesn't seem like a ood option, why you are concerned about the possibility of retaliation, about what your toloyer might do in reaction
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any of these steps. the law says an employer can't you for on against complaining about harassment, but that doesn't mean it doesn't happen. of the things that women reasonably weigh when iguring out what to do in the face of harassment. host: we've had a couple callers the eeoc elieve doesn't have any teeth and they followed up on claims that people have personal with.ence guest: it is certainly the case that the eeoc doesn't have the promptly do a deep investigation of every charge that it receives, that is the truth.nate i think the eeoc should be much resourced, but where we re now, sometimes the eeoc has ability to dig dip in a prompt way on your charge and sometimes a lot of immediate response, which is why, after a
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passed, you have the right to go to federal court charge obviously it's not easy to bring a court case, an attorney, that can be difficult itself. all of those are real barriers women face when they are rights o assert their and men, too, who are victims, too. > we heard from the eeoc commissioner that a percent of claims are filed by a man s. different standard when a man claims sexual harassment by another man or a woman in the place? guest: legal standards are the same. supreme court recognized the law protects against same-sex sexual arass sxment opposite sex sexual harassment. legal standards are the same. the questions that the court ask would be whether the harassment was a level that was pervasive or whether someone had some sort of what tangible job impact
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based on the harassment and employer knew about the harassment and failed to take steps to stop it. questions are the same regardless of whether it is a man or woman experiencing it. what kind of outcomes have you seen? onetary, imprisonment, how big can the punishment be? guest: obviously in the news we've seen very large that have happened in some high-profile cases, you bill o'reilly $32 million story, that is striking because that is unusual. cash amounts in settling a case or in getting damages are much lower and in fact, under federal law, they're the size of the employer from $100,000 to $300,000, not nothing, but not the millions of authorize that seeing in some
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settlements. isn't something available through the civil system, where you're bringing of harassment and discrimination. of course if it is rape or is a possibility, typical not the most course of events we've seen. host: we want to invite viewers questions, comments. our conversation continues on "washington journal" about in the work ment place. what have you heard, what have you experienced yourself? ringwood, new jersey. hi, steve. caller: yes, hello. yes. been an educator in the ublic schools for 30 years and i've seen numerous, what i would ave to call reverse gender discrimination and i think there is a real elevated fear, the men in mong education for falsely being
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of something and it is almost like out there where the buses don't run. i don't think that there is enough of a penalty for making accusations and this is a that doesn't a seem to really get the media deserves. that it host: false -- caller: i had experience young in my career, nothing came of it, it was bizarre that somebody would just make up something out of nowhere because you happen to be male. host: let's talk about that, false accusations? guest: interesting question. one thing i hear when i hear that story, how gender stereotypes can harm men and women and i think there is a gender stereotype about men who in education or work with children, they are somehow suspect. is an example of how about people deas not being qualified or appropriate for a particular job is something that
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that doesn't just harm women, it harms men, too. ramification any for false accusations? if you mix allegation of harassment and not sure if of accusation d he was talking about, work place co-workers and it's mployer finds that truly frivolous, there is clear that didn't happen, i uppose, but if there were some pattern your employer could have a disciplinary response, it be a difficult situation, the law protects people who harassment, ints of so the only way an employer would be able to punish somebody for bringing forward a complaint if there was really strong bad faith, t was in o basis for the person making
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the complaint believing they had been harassed. the guardian, 75% of people that experience sexual harassment do not report it. protects people making claims. how does the law protect them? for an t is illegal employer to harass you. to s illegal for employer retaliate against you about complaining about harassment. complain to the eeoc or in court. the case ually it is that people are often more successful bringing retaliation employer andt their bringing underlying harassment case because sometimes case, harassment happens in private there is sort of people have different of events. it can be difficult to figure out what really happened. retaliation tis clear, the person went forward, this employer o me and responded by terminating her. that can be easier case to prove.
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linda has hear what canaveral, florida. linda, go ahead. morning.good i'm furious, we're preparing a presentation for the dental industry. apparently there is quite a bit of sexual harassment going on in a dentist, ces, hiropractor, a physician, the law is for offices that are 15 larger.es or what does someone do when you are in a small business or a practice? question.t's a great so you're right, federal law employees and businesses that have 15 employees. state law varies. hibit harass s sxment discrimination for all how large no matter or small. some states follow federal law
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do something in between. unfortunately there, is not just one answer, depending on the or city. cities have municipal laws that cover smaller employers, you may have legal protection available, but you're right, in some states, in small businesses, here aren't clear protections against harass sxment discrimination and that is a real problem. we argue things that for at the national women's law enter is that laws against discrimination and harassment should be expanded to cover businesses. you're right tcan leave you without a lot of meaningful recourse. riverside, california. caller: yes, i have a comment to highest rding at our level in government. we have the same thing going on think that mp and i should look really, really be looked into. talking about low-level, although they are wrong, if proven guilty, all of these
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the asters, director/producer in hollywood, seems like a double standard here. when we have someone sitting in the white house who should certainly be prosecuted with his own words. he admitted to this, i'm curious no one is bringing this up. this has gone on and the man is on tape. comment to make. man handled and olested by my husband's boss and i let my husband know immediately as we've had him to saying goodbye to his wife and leaning in to the car and this is when this on the and my husband other hand was unable to say anything to his boss for fear he lose his job. that is another circumstance, it upsetting to me. it affected me greatly. just so i'm giving you two examples. have a president in office that should be prosecuted, as well, with his own words. okay.
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emily martin i think i do think said and the president the allegations against him are troubling and do lineup with a pattern of other been s that we have weinstein andharvfr about riley and others powerful men who engage in harassment over and over and over i do think it really may be that we of the reasons , e hearing these stories now i'm seeing this in the work place, it happened, may be hollywood access story and the election of the feeling that the
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it is not okay to just let this go. if i experience this, i have some responsibility and speak up, even if the person who harassed me is a powerful person. a response we're seeing in the culture right now. host: tweets in response to a from actress alissa milano for me, too, stories tweets from past sunday through thursday. 1.36 million. are we at a tipping point? guest: i do think this is a moment of women sharing their stories and speaking to each other and that makes a difference. you know, one of the reasons is harassment can continue because harassers make their ictims feel isolated and vulnerable. you feel like no one will
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this e you because happened without witnesses. you feel there is nothing you complain, it will make things worse, the person arassing you is so powerful in the company. people often feel like maybe this was somehow their fault, themselves in a situation and if only they had done something differently, prevented this from happening. the power of women sharing stories, where you see the same of thing happening over and over is start to shift people's things, actually it wasn't all my fault this, appens over and over and over again, not all of us doing the wrong thing, the harasser is i'm the wrong thing and not isolated and vulnerable here. for has an important impact culture change and for empowering victims of harassment up.speak host: weinstein affect may have laws it's like gun been condoned for years, ewarding culprits like trump
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and o'reilly and david says how does the military deal with situation? guest: great question. the military has had a lot of appropriately responding to sexual harassment assault.al and one of the things that we at national women's law center have ove pushing for is to impruf so it ng and responses doesn't go through the chain of command. the e not complaining to person who has oversight over harassment in the first place so there is a separate place you can go to to say this happened me, separate from your chain of command. that would be important reform in military justice. host: cindy, in st. joseph, minnesota. hi, cindy. caller: hi. make a few to points. i'm older now, wiser, much
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wiser. but starting out in the early 0s working and getting married and such, i had a few experiences. one of our who was transplant adjusters from state.r he kind of creeped me out. i was pretty naive and innocent . complain, but nothing would happen. i told my senior adjuster, who gal, and she hhadn.r. and the to man was removed. i was promoted from the mail an assistant to insurance adjuster and i was about to take my bar when i took three months off to go get married, came back, they held my pay, of course, but then when i got pregnant that first year, they let me go. and wouldn't let me come back. really?ike, i kind of knew this was a big it was just kind of
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probably related to maternity leave. years later, two more children, it kept happening gain, so the last time i decided to call the eeoc. nd we went to the denver courthouse and we lost. that.ealed it, we lost and then the woman that epresented me, she was a black gal, and she told me as we were leaving to go out the elevator, said, you need to hire a private lawyer and sue them and want. get whatever you i said, did you miss something, we just appealed and lost it. and told me, to me you're white, you're married and your husband has a good job, i can't help you. the eeoc isn't really representing women like they claim. know, bottom line, if you're no matter rk, girls,
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what your qualifications, it's ind of a job title they give you, they don't really compensate you like the men and they still don't. 40 years ing almost later now. they still don't promote, i hear. martin, your emily reaction. story i do think cindy's points out how different sorts are connected, whether pregnancy or race sexual nation or harassment, that all of those discrimination are expression of the idea that really aren't valuable in the work place. don't long here and you are second class citizen here. and is probably not a coincidence, the company she running r, she kept into problems at all these different levels. dunkirk, maryland.
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hi, dan. caller: hi. have ow when they sometimes sometimes, they make a person secrecy thing. guest: nondisclosure. caller: nondisclosure. illegal hat should be you couldn't say they could talk about it unless brought against them again and then that person could be a witness for the person. don't believe in secrecy stuff. host: let's take that up. nondisclosure agreements, some people argue this is part of the problem, women cannot talk about what happened. guest: it's a great question to ask. there are two nondisclosure agreements, one i think is definitely something we need to address, the other is more deserves d and conversation. the first kind is the kind, when
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you walk in the door, as part of our employment contract, you sign something that says i promise not to disclose anything isparaging of the company, whether true or not, i will keep quiet. nondisclosure agreement, i think, is not okay. it should be clear in law that you can't have that sort of rovision, without expressly saying this doesn't apply in instances of harassment or the imination and under law, i think that nondisclosure agreement isn't enforcible in a instances, it can prevent ou from bringing charge of discrimination or talking to your co-workers and getting challenge discriminatory behavior. people don't necessarily know it has a real chilling effect. -- the plicated kind of
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employer is complicated you, but confidentiality. that can have negative impact and keep these things secret. allow a otentially harasser to continue to harass other women, other people in the place. but the reason i think that is you difficult is because know, if you're experiencing best sort of e resolution is resolution that means you don't have to go to court. nobody wants to go to court tis expensive, takes a long time, you will be , cross-examined, the employer will put forward evidence how bad employee. you don't want to do that, even if you are going to win. better result to come up with resolution that doesn't require that. the question is whether it will be harder for victims of
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to get some sort of restitution if it is unlawful employer to require confidentiality as a condition agreement.tlement i'm not sure what the answer is, it's a difficult question we eed to wrestle with, worth thinking about public policy in this area. host: denise, in illinois. yes, i wanted to talk a little bit about an experience i year ago with illinois state senator. laws already two in the state of illinois on crime victim's rights. offered to take up my senate sponsor. he's a high-ranking democrat. facing a lot of opposition could eeded somebody who really go to bat for the bill. i was trying to get lawyers for victims to enforce their rights. i had, i mete that
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him in may of 2015. 2016, i went of into a crisis and people need to the effect this had on those of us who experienced this abuse. i lost 20 pounds. hair. losing my hard to really, it was get out of bed and function momsuse my work i deal with and dads whose children had been they're murdered and experiencing revictimization in the system. them to have lawyers. he knew how important this work doing this i'd been 14 years out of pocket because my daughter was raped out of 11, why i do the work that we do. we went through the system. finally died, which it was his intent from the was ning, he was married,
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telling me i looked like a movie star. i'm intoxicating. intimidating. he would have meetings set up at the ice cream parlors, very, very disturbing to me. met with my state attorney in april, when i had the crisis take it couldn't nymore and asked him to take ov representation of the bill, i had the state's attorney on the bill. denise, you are the only one who can advocate for this bill because of my experience.d he told me, i'll talk to the senator, if you want. that, he'll kill my bill again. he kill today in april because boyfriend, i had a mind-mroeiblowing, this man is married. i had to fight for this bill, go torment until once er session 2016 and
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the bill finally died on its wn, never got brought to vote, i just totally left and went to i could to urces hold him accountable. he d a complaint, because was in high leadership, the senate president this senator did a fundraiser for him. could do ne who anything is the person he fund raised for. voice is totally silent, this issues goes swept under the rug. behavior, he's never held accountable, but what i want we go to understand, when through this experience, it is devastating. i don't like having a married me i'm intoxicating or how pretty i am or this or that trying to do something to help people who are at their you can uation that imagine there has to be wayuntability somehow, some
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to make them realize these conscie , they're nable. guest: great points, this has eal impact on victims and obviously different levels of harassment, but one of the why it is difficult to ring any sort of complaint of harassment and why the majority first, don't, is because harassment is often an expression of hour, just like it is here. so it is not unusual for the powerful o be a very person within the work place. very difficult to come forward and to be confident there will be any meaningful if you come forward. and so, it's not irrationale women think that there is nothing to be gained by
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of complaint ort here. and i think one of the other that i hear in that story harassment impact of really goes beyond any particular moment, any interaction, it can really affect how an individual experienced harassment can ucceed in her career at work because of the emotional impact, because it is so undermining, really leads you to your competence and have huge effects for years forward and impact women's ability to succeed at work in a is disturbing. host: learn more information go nwlc.org. emily martin, general counsel,
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conversation this morning. guest: thank you. host: we'll take a short break back jackson katz of be here rategies will to talk about programs for exual harassment, we'll be right back. >> this weekend on book t.v. on c-span 2. publisher 70th anniversary party in washington, d.c. >> sunday, 8 p.m. eastern, nbc ews correspondence katie turr trump campaign in her book "unbelievable." secret politicians don't like reporters, generally. fraught relationship with his press corps, there are rzegler, stories about
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press secretary, getting into it with reporters. he public nature, the way would go after reporters, myself included, from the stage of and have the crowd, encourage the crowd to boo tially turn on us and us. >> 9 p.m. eastern on after words. journalist and former host of face the nation, bob shefer, on he impact of changing technology on journalism in his the "overload, finding truth in today's deluge of news," interviewed by susan glasser. the first thing we have to keep doing is doing what we're to sort out true from the false, that is an overwhelming job now, a bigger than we've ever had because we're dealing with more information. we now have access to more information than any people in the world. of
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but we are running short on curators right now. getting so much information that we really can't process it. weekend's e of this schedule go to booktv.org. >> "washington journal" continues. host: joining us this morning san francisco, jackson katz, founder and president of violence prevention strategies. what is this organization? do? do you guest: we do gender violence prevention training and settings, n all colleges, high schools, all branches of u.s. military and corporate y in settings. the goal is prevention, education, because so much of harassment or sexual violence or relationship abuse preventable se are abuses in many cases and obviously we have an approach years eveloped over many that we think is effective in working with various boysations, men and women,
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and girls and all kind of different settings and multi racial, multi ethnic environments, urban areas, suburban area, everywhere. approach? is your guest: we are one of the pioneers of the bystander approach. instead nder approach, of focusing on perpetrator and victim, we focus on everybody peer culture n. work place, it wouldn't be focusing on the person whoing it, itse or experiencing would be on everybody else in the peer culture. you know, we've developed a strategy, if you will, or pedigocical learning strategy to given workybody in a place or peer culture in challenging and interrupting behavior, doing it smartly and thoughtfully, doing supporting victims and targets of harass sxment abuse, to the isolating it person experiencing it and doing it or frankly we don't just managers or the
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leaders within those spaces or university or setting tis not just the the ins of teams or presidents of fraternities and sororities, we focus on leadership and what everybody else can do. say, i'm not le sure what to do, it is not affecting me directly. do.not sure what i should that is the kind of person we want to work with in this model. then who is it, that calls you? and why our clients would they reach out to you for this strategy? well, i and my colleagues have been at the cutting edge of he field of gender violence prevention for a long time, since the early 1990s. the sports culture, first in the u.s. military, for he prevention of gender violence, including sexual harassment, but sexual violence,
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domestic violence, relationship abuse, gay bashing, bullying, we on sexual only harassment. harassment is one of spectrum of we address. i think we've been successful subculturesdifficult like the sports culture, military culture, hyper cultures and in male dominated corporate spaces. we know how to work effectively with men and bridging the ifferences and challenges of working in diverse environment, ot just racially, but gender and sexually environments, we and men and can engage men in an effective way. that?how do you do guest: well, one way to do it is efining it as a leadership issue for men and as strength for men. man challenging other men or interrupting other men's sexism is not somehow an evidence of a
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softness or s or something like that or he's too politically correct. actually illustration or manifestation of strength and is character and we define it like that and challenge men and say, look, if you are silent in of your fellow men's sexually harassing behaviors or forms of abuse, if you're ilent, your silence is consent in abuse. do you want to be that guy that walks away or participates silence or inaction in perpetuation of abuse or behavior? is that who you want to be? or somebody who says, i'm not i can't remain silent, talk about what kind of trategy you can employ, what are your options in given situations. i think men should respond to men don't want to be part of toxic systems, they them to t women around experience it, don't want themselves to experience it. experiences have
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close with women close to us who have been themselves victims and targets of harassment. men close to us who have been harassment, giving ways to deal with it rather than silence, concrete step what is they can do and support for doing it and guy who does speak up in the work place, for example, the guy who does call say, i got er and concerns about the way you are talking about women. we're defineing that as an act of strength and friendship, an act of responsibility, rather some attaching some negative characteristic to that intervention. host: you deal with culture, then. the -- do you think the government has a role in trying sexual harassment? o the laws on the books do enough? guest: well, what we've had, the experience over the last
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if you will, it's the modern body of sexual in the nt laws emerged 1970s and devolved over the decades. but a lot of education that goes on around sexual harassment revention is really formalistic, legal education, 1970s and devolved where people are read, if you ill, the regulations or the rules based on whether it is federal government, state overnment, different work places have mandates, a lot is being compliant with specific language within law and think that is important. i think everybody, for example, in the work place needs to know is.t the law the law has an important law here and legal action has mandating and in then following up on and enforcing certain kinds of codes behavior, but we don't focus on the legal stuff. i think we have to have honest, honest dialogue and engage men and women in work with , again, this is
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college students, in corporate ettings, all kind of places in dialogue beyond formal legal requirements. questions,out ethical who are you as a person, who do you want to be as a person and behavior comport with best sense of who you are and who you want to be rather than on are you in violation of the policy if you say this or do this? formalping away from the legal language in the i think it space, opens up, creates mood where you have honest sharing. a lot of guys have never had an onest conversation about these matters and with other guys or creating educational space can be constructive. by the way naddition, of course, know what the regulations are, what the laws -- being compliant
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ith policy, with sexual harassment policy led by lawyers very d by people who are the letter of the law. here is more opening up dialogue. host: okay, jim in maryland, for jackson katz, go ahead. katz on hi, i saw mr. the movie "the red pill" and the author was pointing out how omestic violence against men, 286 stics are that by 2012 tudies totaling 371,600 people and every one women are as likely or more likely to commit than men.iolence she was talking about this, she said, rather than talk about
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that, he talks about what men can do. if you don't see the picture as making es, you are things worse. mr. katz is creating more do domestic violence against women, he way he talks about the issues. >> guest: this is something in the gender violence and sexual assault field and sexual arassment field, organized movement of men claiming essentially men are more victimized than women and people and others feminists and thers, holding men accountable and reduce sexism and men's violence are somehow antimale somehow ganging up on men and true victims are men. universe the el folks are living in. i live in what i consider the real world, we have a huge of men's violence against men. domestic violence, sexual these are global problems of immense magnitude. there are some men victims
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clearly. most men who are victims of sexual violence are victims of violence.s i'm tired, a lot of men and omen in the field are tired of dealing with ignorant arguments. i care about men, i care about and harassment done to men from the beginning of my work and work, women and men who in the spaces, we've been concerned about violence and harassment toward men, but we lose sight of the larger picture, the larger picture, inism is real and doesn't go both directions. men's dominance is real. it is like saying racism, white victims of racism and there is white people who suffer racism, ays because of but that doesn't negate the fact systemally disadvantages and abuses and hurts people of color and we're two.oing to equate the when it comes to gender, same thing. i have compassion, everybody compassion for mefticvictims whether of
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violence, nobody should be treated with disrespect. let's not live in a fantasy and have equality of victimization, men's violence gainst women is way big sxer way greater magnitude than women's violence against men by standard.ale host: iris in south leon, michigan. iris.orning, caller: good morning, greta, and good morning, mr. katz. have -- where does harassment stop and romance begin? supposed to instigate it? eally, is there no touchy feely? are we becoming robots? katz. mr. guest: sexual harassment nvolves repeated and unwanted sexual behavior in work place or nonsexual environment. things.t confuse the two we can't confuse romantic nterlewd between individuals
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awkwardly trying to approach each other at a club or a romantic setting and the place.ional work these are two different places. women and men are in the work job, do a o a professional job. when they are treated as sexual trying to do their job, the experience of millions of women, then you have a problem. i don't think those who are doing this work aren't confused about the distinction. distinctions and i think a ot of people understand the distinction. they cross lines. the work place is not a club. romanticplace is not a interlued, the work place is the want to be nd women treated with dignity. it is a simple concept. been talking e about for years, we talk to you how would you feel if were there for sexual pleasure for others than rather than being respected for your abilities?ents and take a step back and think about ow you would feel if you were
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constantly faced with this. scandal after scandal, whether in the wood, fox news, corporate environments, in tech military, n the obviously on college campuses hashtag, at me too women who have come forward to talk about experiences of sexual sexual abuse, sexual violation. street en walk down the or ride the subway without being grabbed and groped. romantic t just about confusion, this is about violation of people's personal and their personal space and their professional integrity. million is number of weets sent out with the me too hashtag since sunday. new mexico.cruz, caller: hi, good morning. host: morning. caller: i worked at the post years, before that, the marine corps. the marine corps tweeted me
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the post office. i felt tiring in 2004, like i had ptsd. wanted to mention is leadership. organization or company you work for, a leader that is a going to take charge and make sure these things are done. and they can allow them just by turning their head the other way. and in the post office, what they did was transfer these are, they would pick somebody out and harass them. managers. it wasn't a matter of male or harass them would or do hey quit something -- you probably remember the phrase going postal.
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host: let me leave it there and have jackson katz after you hear from debra. talked about leadership, hear debra has to say debra has to richmond. go ahead, debra. caller: yes, good morning. congregation of pastors all over the world will stand up and say the bible,s wrong in okay. that e horrible things they have to treatment of women wrong.bible is forever.oing to go on host: two interesting thoughts, what do you think? no doubt this is a leadership issue. drumbeen beat thanksgiving for decades. in the military, commend climate. ommander has responsibility, troops have to be responsible for behavior and such, but the limate, the environment within
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the unit, within the company, what have you is responsibility that is mmander and generalizable concept for every situation, work place, the leaders, corporate the president of the company in the college and universities, example, in athletics, not the student athletes that set tone, athletic director, coaches, leaders have important enforcing a and certain code, this is what we xpect and what we doll and if people don't meet the expectations. if you want to be part of the the team and want to successfully operate in this raternity, all kind of different settings, these are we have to ways expect you to treat each other and if you are a man, expect you to treat women with respect and be out of line with value of we this work place and organization and that, the manager, the leader has more responsibility than everybody else. about beginning, talking the bystander approach.
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everybody in a given peer culture, not just leaders have a to play. often, greta, explain that the the friend or ay co-worker who challenges or behavior are sive asking what a leader does. situation that a something is wrong and acting. there is a real direct bystander ip between approach, everybody has a role to play and focus on leadership position f people in of formal leadership, they have an added responsibility because formal in position of leadership. we need to get to a place in society, if you are a man in a leadership, not just a woman, if you are a woman, as ell, you're going to be expected to create and sustain these kinds of healthy nvironments, you will be expected to affirmatively and roactively call out abusive
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behavior or be seen as fail nothing your leadership. that you are not a nice guy or we're hoping you are a nice guy who helping out the women. if you don't do this, don't make this a priority in your management, d you're failing as a manager and leader in the work place. look around y, you you, there is a lot of people, a lot of men who are not doing well in this regard, obviously there is many who are doing a good job. game d to ramp up our quite a bit. host: tommy, then we'll go to nancy after that. in woodward, oklahoma. caller: yes, this is tommy and i was the e to say i roust about hired as mobi mobil oil corporation. bid around from job to job and i made it -- i had the most d i was
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qualified one and they hired me. tired of anen i get area, i could bid to another miles at was maybe 20 away and so it worked out real didn't have to stay in one place, but there was harassment and there was dirty more than was given my share and i had made my mind to be the -- going going to be -- going to do it, i going to be run off. i tried to get along with everybody. the men , most of introduce me to their wifes and we would make a friendship utside of the work, they would be very nice to me and i would be nice to them. worked.st 20 years, it there were one or two times that i was actually thought about, know, but i never could get he foreman's job i wanted or the pressure job i wanted, it pumper, s, i could be
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lease operator or i could be a repairment, but i couldn't get a supervisory job. tommy's story. nance nefranklin, north carolina. caller: yes, thank you for taking my call. of the things i'm thinking about is women in the work place and how caddy they can be. harassed backldly working60s, early '70s, in record companies, etcetera. raised in nd was southern california. but in mid-california, i worked the most major banks, women's branch in central california and we -- all men, we had inspector come in every year. a couple came in, one female, one male. looking, y good
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needless to say, well, these on him like a cage ull of monkeys on one single banana. this poor guy didn't have a prayer. host: nancy, we'll take your point. jackson katz. uest: clearly women can act abusively, there can be toxic ehaviors engaged in by women and men in work place, whether all female work place or even in when women have authority over men, they can misuse authority. nobody should be abused and be called out d and held accountable for being abusive. i would agree with that, again, it is important that i, as a man and those doing this perspective, s in men's violence against women and the harassment is by far biggest problem, but it doesn't mean there aren't other issues that are worthy of discussion worthy of our action, as well as our compassion for the targets.nd
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i mean, again, i hope nobody this away from conversation with the diluted belief that somehow there is quation between the amount of sexual harassment that men suffer in the work place versus omen, it is wildly disproportionate, men are the perpetrators and women are the victim necessary vast majority cases, that doesn't negate men as victims, but doesn't two.e the host: listen to david's question quickly. in for a procoming forma session real quickly. david, real quick. air., you are on the caller: yes, i would like to comment about the harassment man. i think the talk is not enough, it has to be more action. i think the problem is -- 60 years changed in america. host: david, i think i your point, the house is about to come in. us a n katz, can you give
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response to less talk more action? guest: i agree 100%, we need a lot more action. accountability at all level, build educational collegess k-12 and into and graduate schools, need to prepare, not just young women or the work place in the 21st century, prepare young men to navigate complexity of gender diversity and ethnic diversity that, is something on us, all of us, especially those policymakers, those who are leaders within educational institutions, build this stuff end so we're not always dealing on the back end ith lawsuits and messes and people's lives ruined. start earlier and do more know enough after the last several decades of educational practice and experience. we now enough to know that can really do a better job than we're doing if we have political ill and educational leadership buy-in to help our young people avigate and older people
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navigate complex nuances of 21st century life. host: quickly, do you think that needs to be put into law, training, in our communities and school? guest: to the extent we can law can be affect and ocial policy can affect educational requirements, yes, 21st century education should by definition engagement with these kind of issues and people around helping develop the tools to engage with these kind of questions. his is real-world stuff and we -- there is disconnect between how much we know and how approaches we've developed over the last number of decades nd implementation of educational practices in k-12, in college and in graduate extent social he policy can push educational administrators to enact those educational programming, yeah, i would support it. host: okay. viewer consist learn more by
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going to jackson katz.com, thank your time. host: now, the house is coming in for a quick pro forma not doing ey are legislative business today, we'll bring you to the floor now, live coverage on c-span. the speaker pro tempore: the house will be in order. the chair lay b.c.s. the house a communication from the speaker. the clerk: the speaker's rooms, washington, d.c. october 27, 2017. i hoosh appoint the honorable simpson, to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. signed, paul d. ryan, speaker of the house of representatives. the speaker pro tempore: the prayer will be offered by the guest simpson, to act as speaker pro tempore on this day. chaplain, the reverend aker dan c. cummins, peoples church of jacksonville, texas. the speaker pro tempore: let us pray. our father in heaven, how

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