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tv   Univ of Delaware - Joe Biden Gov. John Kasich  CSPAN  November 22, 2017 11:50am-1:25pm EST

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networks. >> former democratic vice president joe biden sat down with republican ohio governor john kasich to talk about the universityat of delaware political center for communication, looking at alternative ways to approach government. [applause] vice president biden: thank you. john, welcome to my campus. i was not a graduate here, two thirds of my staff and ohio state where he went, i just wanted to see a really beautiful campus here. john, because of the doctor and the faculty here, they have been kind enough to give me a platform here to work with, in this case, the center for political communication. be part of their series,
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the national agenda series. we are working, the bidens, because again, the doctor and the board have been generous in allowing me to bring some major, serious staff people from washington who work with me and know you and you know them and to work together to produce some genuinely -- we have two objectives. one is to produce serious academic material that sheds light on the issues of the day. and two, to bring to the campus ,> exposed to my fellow men expose them to some of the best minds and leaders in the country in all fields, but mainly in this case, politics. dr. hoffman, thank you for letting us join your operation and thank you for being willing to moderate. and nancy, who i've known for
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years since she's been a child -- she reminded me she started interviewing me when my daughter ashley, who is now 35 years old, was four years old. she said she was peeking out from behind the desk at the time. nancy has done a great job here. an outfit that frank began, this school. i just wanted you to know that, you know, it is not that hard for john and i to get along. we never had trouble, because we come from the same background. we have slightly different political perspectives on the role of government, but john's father was a mailman. john came from a working-class neighborhood, like i did in scranton. we grew up with people and believing in people that were ordinary people like us. our parents told us there wasn't a damn thing we couldn't do even though we didn't have the wild
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pedigrees and incredible credentials. we both believe strongly in the capacity of the american people. joan and i have worked together -- john and i have worked together on issues together on the same side and we have occasionally disagreed. but i think -- i will end with this and i will turn it over to doctor. -- one of the things that matters is that personal relationships matter. every time i am here, you hear me talk about that. getting to know someone. getting to know what they think. getting to know their background. getting to know their family. getting to know how they act and what they care about really matters, even when you fundamentally disagree. and we don't fundamentally disagree, but even when you do. because this system is built in a way that you have to be able to reach compromise.
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you have to be able to get to go to be able to make this place work. i just want to tell you, john, how, you know, when they asked to -- when i asked who they wanted, who they wanted me to reach out to, it was you. it wasn't like it was a big contest or a lot of people that we're going to bring to campus. the first person they wanted was you, and that's because of your leadership, buddy. thanks again for being here. doc, it is all yours. nancy: thank you so much. this is our 7th annual national agenda series. i think what we do here serves a really important purpose, which is to demonstrate civil dialogue. i think in 2017, we are seeing greater discord, more racism, violence than we have seen in many years. i think that this program serves as a great resource for demonstrating and having discussions about how do we get across these divides and how do we communicate more effectively.
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our mission here is to kind of lower the heat, recede from hate, and really provide good models for communication. i will skip my introductory remarks since we are a little behind. but i want to say that today, we are featuring two leading voices in bridging partisan divides. a recent study from the pew research center showed that republicans and democrats, since they have been measuring this, have never been further away from each other in their ideological approach than they are in 2017. it is time to talk partisan divides. so governor kasich, after leaving congress in 2000, running for president, he worked as managing director in the investment banking division of lehman brothers. he was previously a commentator to fox news and a presidential fellow at his alma mater, the ohio state university. i should mention here that as a proud buckeye myself, we reserve the right to say the ohio
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university. so let's give another round of applause to governor kasich. [applause] we know delaware's own vice president joe biden was, at age 29, one of the youngest people ever elected to the united states senate. he served as senator from delaware for 36 years and most recently as the 47th vice president. please again, join us in welcoming joe back to campus. [applause] [laughter] lindsay: can i interrupt? [laughter] gov. kasich: we don't need all that introduction, let's go. lindsay: here we go. here is what i want you guys to
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address. you have both written recently about the state of our nation's soul and the need for a shared moral compass. our country has been at these crossroads before. what does that soul or shared moral compass look like in 2017? how do we get there? since the vice president has home field advantage, i will toss this to you first. mr. biden: first of all, this is going to sound trite, but leadership matters. leadership matters. i think that what you saw in charlottesville was, seeing these people come out from under rocks, out of fields, carrying torches and nazi flags, and the same rhetoric that occurred in kristallnacht in germany in the 1930's. the idea that you would see that again was just beyond comprehension. the failure for america's voice, the president of the united states, to condemn it and not be
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-- we are talking about it in relative terms, embolden's people to think that they can do this kind of thing. you see it in every walk of life. you see it in every circumstance where bad things happen. so that's number one. number two, it does not represent the america. it is not america's soul. we know that is not america. the 300 million americans who take overwhelming objection to both political parties to what they saw down there. one of the things we have to remember is that this is a time of real crisis in america and the world. a change is taking place economically. we are in the midst of this digital revolution. this continues to escalate in ways that a lot of ordinary people see their future as being in the rearview mirror. they wonder what jobs they are going to have, what are they going to do? john and i were talking at lunch. the highest rate of suicide, the highest rate of divorce, the highest rate of opioid abuse, the only country where life expectancy is diminishing, the
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white male is between 40 and 48 years old. because there is a sense of hopelessness, and that always generates demagogues. demagogues do two things. one, they appeal to a fear in order to get the aggrandizement of power. and one of the things, i will end with this because there is so much more to say and i want to hear john -- last night, i had the great honor as chairman of the constitution center up in philadelphia, to award another great friend of both of us, john mccain. one of my closest friends, a great friend to both of us. and unlike this john john mccain , and i have hollered at each other and gone at each other. >> we have had more fun than that, joe. >> that is true. the bottom line is that one of the things we talked about is you all have to know the constitution better. and by that i mean, you know, we say we hold these truths as self-evident, that all men are created equal, endowed by their
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creator. we all believe that. we set up a political system that guaranteed you could assert that and guarantee it. it's called the madisonian notion of counter majoritarian instincts built into our constitution. there are certain things for which a majority rule does not pertain. we are not a pure democracy. we are a republic. there are certain things that are so consequential to us in terms of basic human rights that it doesn't matter whether 99% of the people wanted to do away with it. it's called the counter majoritarian element built into our constitution. the reason why we have been the light for the world is not just because what we said, but we built the institutions that guarantee it. and the guarantees that are in that constitution are ones that people are walking away from now. what do you see now?
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you see these demagogues talking about how it's just about whatever the majority thinks. they are riling up people, finding the other. every time there's a problem, why doesn't a guy in coal country have a job in ohio? well, an immigrant. what does an immigrant have to do with the coal problem in southeastern ohio? it has nothing to do with it. why don't people have jobs in delaware? well, you're catering to blacks. you are giving special preference. and it goes on and on. they need a target to pick. we have to start to reinvigorate and remind people what is the unique element of this country. it is, we are uniquely of product of our political institutions. you cannot define an america based on ethnicity, race, religion, culture, background.
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but you can, in saying that i adhere to the notion that there are certain inalienable rights that cannot be overruled by anyone -- the government, the majority -- it cannot be there. and so what's happened here? what have you seen? the result is surely in my view. you have seen a direct attack for your half on the legitimate -- illegitimate from some quarters in our government now. the second thing you have seen as a direct attack on the free press. what are the two things that to protect and prevent the abuse -- -- to protect and prevent the abuse of power? the courts and the press. so you guys have to get engaged -- you have to get engaged. and remember why we are who we are. it is because we built institutional structures to guarantee that all men and women are treated equally. it is the structure. lindsay: thank you. governor kasich? gov. kasich: i never thought i
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would see the advantages of getting older. don't get me wrong. last night, after dinner, one of my daughters and i and my wife, my wife and the other one were kind of listening to linkin park, so don't think i'm an old fogey. [laughter] there is not many songs better then non-, just so you know i am not making it up. you see, i am changing as i am aging. joe, i think part of it is, as a governor, i have 11 and a half million people. i see people that hurt. i see people that need help. i see the whole jobs issue. there is a weight that falls on you when you have that level of responsibility. i do not want to talk so much -- what joe said about the constitution, i think that is really important. but i think there are two things that i think we are somehow forgetting, and those are two great commandments.
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i know that in our society today, the minute i mentioned the word god, we all have thought bubbles about oh, what are you going to do now? look i , don't care who you are sleeping with. it means nothing to me. that is not what god is all about. god is about love, connectedness, togetherness, forgiveness, grace, patience. two great commanders that we have -- look, if you are humanists i'm cool with that. , you don't have to believe what i believe. the first amendment is to love god. what is that about? that is about humility. i know i don't have as much of it as i need, but what is humility? well, i need to listen to somebody. i am not -- really, what some of the great theologians say i'm not as worthy as you are. i fall short of you. it's really important. the second one and that we have
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increasingly been forgetting is love your neighbor as you want your neighbor to love you. when i think about the gnashing of teeth, the elements of hatred, viciousness, of division, what happened to that commandment? have we forgotten it? have we written it off? i think that, if you love your neighbor as you want your neighbor to love you, and if you practice humility, you have an obligation to live your life a little differently. now, it is popular today to talk about the failure of government. i tell you, joe, i have never seen anything like we see in washington, the dysfunction and the willingness to just care about my own election. that gets back to maybe that's another higher moral purpose. because, you know, we are all heading out of this world at some point, and my goal is to have at least 80% of what they
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say about me be true when i am dead. we see the failures in government, the inability to put the good of our society above the good of my reelection. that is easy to say. practiced that for a long time, we have. i know when you push the president to some difficult positions, it was not easy, but i think we have been pretty good on that. and i look around at the rest of our culture. equifax. i look at wells fargo. by the way, they are not doing state business in my state. i've banned them. you can't be taking advantage of people. [applause] butrnor kasich: seriously, i look at these companies and i say, is it about profit without value? because some of the great theologians have said free enterprise was not underlain by a set of values is bankrupt.
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michael of the great catholic , one theologians said that. i happen to agree with that. hollywood, not saying another word, ok? only from the standpoint of, if you think that's the only place where these things exist, what -- what are people thinking? if we look at sports where they will now appeal ezekiel elliott. they wanted to play football on sunday. are you kidding me? the guy should play? we look at the matters of faith. so many of these evangelicals deciding the politics should be interspersed with religion. it has no place. unless you're are talking morality, like martin luther king did. when i look across our culture and i begin to wonder at we all lost our way? where does it come down to? you know it comes down to you.
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i will rapid appear, because we have a lot of questions -- i was out in utah at a town hall. there was a young lady standing behind me. i said, you know, no one has ever been made like you before. no one will ever be made like you again. do you understand the purpose you have? she started to cry. i told my wife about it and she said you probably scared her, john. [laughter] but you understand -- and i don't mean this just politically. you all matter very much. the power of our country does not rest in presidents, governors, senators. the power of our country rests in you and us as people, and how we behave in class, how we behave out of class, how the business executives behave, how the theologians behave, how the sports figures behave -- was there anything more uplifting than to see jt watt raise all of that money for the flood victims in houston? these are powerful things where we can see here a, and we look
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at houston, florida, puerto rico, and say wow, there are heroes emerging. we don't have to be saints, but we need better heroes every day to somebody else. so the power is in us. so don't be yelling and screaming or blaming them. you are doing the same thing. be patient. embrace people. tell them you care about them. give them a hug. you will feel 10 times better. that is the strength of our country. it's you. joe is right about that. it's you. not somebody else. lindsay: thank you. [applause] let's stick with the governor for a moment and travel back in time to 2016 and the campaign for president. gov. kasich: do we really have to? [laughter] come on. that's not fair. [laughter] lindsay: only one question. gov. kasich: that's fine. lindsay: since i studied the intersection between technology and politics, there's a facebook
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-- i am always fascinated about how every four years, there is a facebook, twitter, or a new medium that is tracking inks. i was fascinated by the presidential debates in the primary. facebook could click on emoji as to what you are feeling. i monitor this throughout the debate that was before march 1, and people were angry. and they got more angry as the debate went on. i think these debates are historically one of the best models for civil dialogue. gov. kasich: which debates were you watching? [laughter] i wish i had been invited to those. let me tell you something about the debates. first of all, the debates were the craziest thing you said, figure out what you can say to get on the morning news. i'm going to rip up the iran deal. ok, i am going to kick 15 million people out of the country. that is what got the press.
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if you said you want to consider what we do with a run before we get there, do you think anyone was for you? no, it did not work that way. the debates didn't work because it was all about what's the biggest thing you can do? it was not about a discussion like we are going to have here today. you know why? because most people wouldn't watch. you might get 7 million, 8 million, but you got 25 million. and when it comes to the networks, money matters. someone made $1 billion doing all of this stuff. and now they are going crazy because of the result. [laughter] that's the first thing. the second thing i want to tell you is this is really , really interesting. it is like no good deed goes unpunished. so i didn't go to the convention in ohio. people are still furious with me about it. i never endorsed donald trump, people in my party are still angry at me about it. i have just got together with
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john hickenlooper to put together a bipartisan proposal on health care. you know what everybody says? there is something in it for him. today we hadk that become so cynical that if joe and i are sitting here on this stage and we get along, somebody figures out there is some old. motive behind it all. do you know that people actually do nice things and good things because it's the right thing to do? and it's so hard for people to understand it. [applause] [laughter] lindsay: thank you so much. i'm wondering if either of you play the "what would i do?" game . if you are president in this period right now today. [laughter] mr. biden: let me go back for a second. [laughter] and i will answer that question directly. john and i have a bad habit of answering the questions we are asked.
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sometimes it gets us in trouble. one, the press bears some responsibility, you guys, school of communications. i do not think you are teaching the right things all the time. i am not being facetious now, i mean this sincerely. think about it now. if, in fact, there was an actual debate that did not include donald trump groping a woman's crotch -- i am not being facetious, look, there was a study done, and the communications people probably know this. of all of the words spoken in the debates and in the campaign, that4% was covered involved issues. you hear me now? 4%. 4%. going through is
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an overwhelming -- really, they are the brightest people that i have known in my career, i count among them the press people. i mean that. academically, intellectually, but think about what is going on now. the newspaper is going to survive, they are not sure how they are going to do it. it has changed incredibly. there is very little editorial filter about anything that goes out. thirdly, you find yourself that if in fact you are going to respond to something that is substantively important, but you can elevate it by taking an extreme position, you know it is going to be carried next day on the news. and so it is all about -- and that is why we are going to get to it probably somewhere along the line here, the new technology is both incredibly liberating but also dangerous. there is no editorial filter on
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anything at all out there now. and so, with regards to the question of whether or not do i sit and do i think to myself what i would do, one of the great advantages -- and there is no power in the vice presidency. it is all reflective. students have heard me say before, literally as benjamin , franklin said, we should refer to the vice president as his superfluous excellency. [laughter] there is no power. you are a standby equipment, and you break a tie, unless you have a relationship with the president that is real, and i was lucky to have that. one of the things you get to do when you are a governor -- i never have been, and vice president, which i have -- is you get to -- i got to be the last guy in the room in every major decision. he made that commitment to me and he kept it. i could make my case as to what i thought we should do. you're able to judge whether or or not the advice you gave and
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the position you took, whether it turned out to be correct or not correct. so you have a sense, a scorecard. he knows the things he did that succeeded and the things that didn't succeed. he didn't have to guess about it. he has done it. he has done it. and one of the things i found, it doesn't mean the recommendation you had that was different would have worked, it just means if you said don't do what you were about to do, it would not have worked, it increases your confidence in your judgment for guys like john and i have been around for a long time. what i was able to do for eight years is not second guess, but absolutely be directly clear and private to the president when i thought he was right, when i thought he was wrong, and what he should do. the fact that i am no longer vice president doesn't mean that i no longer have those thoughts. i do. no, i am not trying to be funny here. the point is that there has been a tradition and it has been
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sorely tested by this president, a tradition that the outgoing president and vice president give a grace period to an administration to get their feet on the ground. one of the things john and i use as an excuse -- i look on it and reverse now, they did not expect to win. they were not prepared at all to govern. they did not have anybody in place. they didn't even have what every major campaign has. they didn't have a committee working on exactly what they do in transition. there was no transition group. so i said, let's give them a chance to put people in place and see what they do. but what has really happened here is that we have a president who does not understand governance. forget his policies for a minute. he does not understand how government functions.
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one person talked about how the reason we have certain basic norms, certain basic political norms. they are the things, they are the ballast which keeps differing opinions and conflicts floating so that we can deal with them. and he came along and said he is going to break down all the norms. it's like breaking down the norms on a campus, where you walk by and somebody says hello to you and you don't say hello. will guess what? well, guess what? you break down the norm, it becomes not a friendly place to work off of what john was talking about. there are certain basic norms, and when he understands, the other seat tries to break down and the pension for this self-aggrandizement and the penchant for tweeting and to
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ands so specifically internally on what he does or if he waso, even right about everything, is sending a message that is totally inappropriate. we were all playing golf last times. just last time, and you guys one. -- won. all kidding aside, we saw the demise in the nature of the discourse when the gingrich revolution started to occur. on the floor of the united states senate, a senator would refer to the sitting president as bubba. when someone -- forget democrat/republican. when someone would yell at the state of the union "liar," these are basic norms. there's a reason why we have certain basic social norms.
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they are the arbiter of how we work together. the thing i find the most debilitating about what is going on now is the destruction of these norms is generating chaos. it is generating chaos internally. i don't want to see the chief of staff quit. i don't want to see the secretary of defense and the secretary of state quit. all the people that are in our administration who are still there, they call and i say please stay. please stay. there has to be some competence and normalcy. but again, it is not even about the issues. it's about the norms. i will conclude by saying you don't say -- you don't say to a foreign leader, even someone as difficult and dangerous as the president of north korea -- you don't refer to him as a little guy.
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you do not stand -- i was recently with a head of state. john, i have had 14 heads of state contact me who want to get me to explain what is going on. no, i am not being facetious. i'm deadly earnest. i am very careful about making sure -- i'm not in power, i do not set foreign policy, and i never speak ill of an american president abroad. that is a rule of mine. i was with one prime minister in europe area that went over to speak at a conference. he wanted to see me. so i thought it was a courtesy call. i thought it was going to last 10 minutes. it lasted 2.5 hours. at one point, this prime minister said -- and did you see what he did? we were sitting on the same side of a conference table as close as you and i are. he said he stood up, he took the president of montenegro, shoved him aside, and stuck his chest
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out and his chin. all i could think of was of duce -- of was el duce. that's not a joke. that is what people are thinking. violating the norms of personal conduct generates more anxiety and fear than any policy prescription that this president has enunciated. sending his secretary of state to talk with north korea, saying he is on a fool's errand. it is absolutely bizarre. it is this bizarre conduct. let me ask you professors out , two -- if i said to you months after this election, are you fundamentally worried about things in a fundamental way getting out of hand, democracy , maybe thingsed
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getting out of control and ending up in a war? my guess is 90% of you would have said, no, this is a bad period. but let me ask you today. i just spoke to -- i did a major speech, i got the burzynski award from the council of grand international security studies in washington. every political policy p oobah was there. i asked the question -- i ask you today if there is a genuine concern for the first time in your career about the possibility of nuclear war? in january, it would've been 1% and we thought it would occur only if isis got a hold of a nuclear weapon or if an accident occurred. this breaking down of the international and national norms is the glue that holds the liberal world order together, and holds together our system.
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that is what is being attacked now, and that is what is most dangerous. lindsay: can it be reversed? can it get back on track and what are some suggestions for doing that? gov. kasich: first of all, let me say a couple of things. what is pretty amazing is that, when you look at polls, the country is divided about the president. now, not 50/50, but there is still strong support for the president in some quarters. there was an article yesterday , the front page that flake in arizona may be in trouble because he has criticized the president. see, it has become about base politics. of republicanscs and the base politics of democrats. i have been involved with a great democrat, john hickenlooper, trying to resolve the health issue. the minute that the republican proposal went down on the health care issue, democrats went out the window. i think what we are seeing --
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and why did trump get elected? i wrote a book about it. buy it, it is great. [laughter] i do not want to get into -- lindsay: it's not in the lobby, by the way. gov. kasich: you've seen me on television talk about temperament and i have tried to stick on these issues on which i have profound differences, in many cases, with the administration. what was really behind in many respects was that people felt you said it earlier, joe. they felt hopeless. they said that the current political system doesn't work for them. they are unemployed. they have nowhere to go. they thought, you know what, all these politicians, forget it and i'm going to try something different. i'm going to try something new. i think that is part of the reason why we had this result. but to some degree, the politics today is a manifestation of the politics that have been brewing for a long time. the bork hearings.
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were on the committee, you saw how raucous and how they were, and we went through an the republican revolution, and we saw jim wright driven out and -- be driven out, and we saw the republicans win the house for the first time in 40 years, and the democrats said you one, we are not going to fight you. it is a fox on both houses, and you are right about that guy who yelled at the president you lie, and here is the ironic thing. he the next day he put out a fundraising letter to raise money off of it. the system itself has been breaking down because of base politics. go out theocrats window on health care? if you do not stand behind obamacare, bernie and the boys will come and get you. and if you are republican and you try to cross the base of the republican party, the coming get
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-- they come get you in the primary. the whole system is polarizing, and we have a manifestation of what has been happening over a period of time. therefore we are more divided. so how do you fix it. i was chairman of the budget committee, one of the most partisan committees. but i got along with everybody, i was the democrat on the committee. it was really good. republicans said let's come in for a couple of hours and shut them down. wait a minute here. you cannot do that. are you kidding? not only are we going to shut them down, i want to know what amendments we are going to accept. it does not exist anymore in the congress. no one is telling anybody what their behavior has to be. the grown-ups have somehow disappeared, and when that happens there are no rules. it is interesting what you say, because there are some fundamental rules of human behavior that have been violated, that cannot be
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violated. that is back to respect, humility, and all of these other things. when i look at the political system, do i think it can be fixed? absolutely. you asked what i would do if i were president, but i am governor. i have a big job. we are about economic growth. we are growing. i am 479,000 jobs since we came in. we were down 150,000. jobs -- the lady that lost or steel job in mexico, she said that was my identity, and now we have people working in these jobs where they work for over one minute, then amazon, they have no job. they are contract employees. what is their identity? is ane are seeing inability of people to feel their purpose. that is what we need to reach out to. in my state, more jobs. that is not enough. people at the bottom to not feel the opportunity and do not feel the wind of change blowing their way positively, it will not work.
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we created the first earned income tax credit in ohio's history. we do set the size for minorities, we have addressed the issue of race in my state. i have extended medicaid so that the mentally ill, drug addicted, and the chronically ill can get help. goal, along with joe -- look, i saw joe in columbus. come towill you columbus? he said i will go wherever you want me to go. you know why? people go crazy when they see this at home. there's not a lot of a difference between these two human beings who grew up in there is going to be a difference on this issue and that issue. the bottom-line is we want to look at a problem into say, what is the most practical way to fix it? saying, government can be more involved. so what?
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is that enough to cause us to have a war? most of the wars are caused by politics, not philosophy. they are about the politics of how i can get ahead. inherit the earth, and lose your soul. that is what we have to be careful about. >> we are on a roll. we need two more hours of this. [applause] >> when i sat where you are sitting in these very seats, the mantra was dropped out, disengage. nation more divided as a
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than we are today. the vietnam war was ripping us apart. aparte rubbing each other , when i was involved in promoting women's issues. i was viewed as, i have to be gay, there must be something wrong. when we talk about the biden andt, it was, others are going after corporate america. the civil rights cases were not settled by any stretch of the imagination. when i walked across the stage of syracuse the day robert kennedy was shot, i was determined that to me and my generation can change things -- could change things. what you face is a totally different problem today.
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it is not substance. on every major issue, from gay marriage to infrastructure, a majority of american people agree. from 53% to 68%. not one major issue out there that the public's agrees on. unlike my generation, when there was no agreement. but the political system is broken. i got there before john, but not a lot before. when i got there, there were 10 segregationists in my party. mcclellan from arkansas. strom thurmond. held, but the system still -- we argued like hell, but we resolved it.
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today, the political system is broken. john and i talked about this at lunch. the reason we were late, we would have stayed there another two hours probably. the work he is doing on gerrymandering in his state and the money and politics. what is happening today is -- [applause] and i will let john speak to the gerrymandering. look, here you go. what has happened now? nobody worries about getting defeated by the other guy. there's only 44 of the 435 districts in the house, only 45 are actually toss-up based on registration. so what are you worried about? in the democratic side, you worry about coming at you on the left and losing the primary. and you worry about on the republican side coming at you at the right. so both political parties are moving more to the extremes.
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the center is shrinking. that isn't to say that the center per se is good. but how can you run this country without consensus? it's not possible. it's not possible for this country to function unless you reach a consensus. >> gov. kasich: it's the middle out. here's the problem. we've got extremes. you sell problems from the middle out. when people have a competitive race, they have to listen to both sides. if you are in a safe district and you are a democrat, they are going to come get you if you try to work with those evil republicans. and if you are a republican and you try to say something about barack obama that might be positive, forget it. oh, my goodness. but it's both. how does it get fixed? that's what we are trying to do in ohio. i get criticized from republicans in ohio. does it bother me? not in the least.
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i'm trying to create a model that everyone ought to have a chance to rise. and you don't do it on partisanship or how you get money. everyone gets a chance to live their dream. and if i can do that and joe can do that, maybe we will make gains. nothing has been torn down overnight and nothing will be rebuilt overnight. it will have to be rebuilt one block at a time. you are talking about the debate over the war. there is something worth debating. civil rights, that is something worth debating. but i don't know what the debate is about this health care law. it's all political. so we get away from the political wars, we can deal with the issues, then we have something to fight about. vice pres. biden: our poor moderators going nuts.
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lindsay: i'm enjoying this. vice pres. biden: last night, i introduced john mccain, who has been my friend for 44 years. i presented him with the medal of the people -- of the people who have gotten it, six have gone on to win the nobel prize. i was reminded that the first time john and i realized how things were beginning to change, there was a big debate going on, we would sit next reach other on the floor. i would disagree, but i would sit next to him or he would sit next to me. coincidentally, we have what you call party caucuses, we had lunch and you discuss policy. the same day that i got this, he got it in the republican caucus. the leadership of my caucus
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actually asked me -- and i was so senior that no one could screw around with me. not a joke. to be very brunt about it. and they said why are you sitting next to mccain during the debate? that isn't that image for us and the party. republicans told him to stop sitting next to the democrats during the debates. gov. kasich: when i go home, they will ask me why am i sitting next to you. [laughter] vice pres. biden: i sat in the white house, those two chairs around the fireplace, the two leading republicans in the united states today -- i'm not saying the president was always right, but the president was asking if they could work on such and such a thing.
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and they looked at him and said do you realize how difficult it is for me to even sit here with you. swear to god, my word as a biden. the response was i am taking a , real political risk even being here with you. as we are walking out the door, i am always the last guy out the door. i start out the door first after this one particular congressman. he grabs my shoulder, he pulls me back. he says where are you going, the president says. i have to go talk to that guy. [laughter] he says, don't, joe. i'm not going to let anybody talk to the president of the united states like that in front of me. that's just bad. that is not good manners. but it started.
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as you said, john, it goes back. these things incrementally build. character is made of a thousand little things. so is the political system. you take out these things that are the basic normal procedures. you weaken the whole foundation. lindsay: what advice can you offer young people in my classroom who were woken up in a lot of ways by the politics of the past year and a half, two years? what can you offer them to encourage them to help rebuild what you are describing? gov. kasich: i think you ought to go get an education. figure out what you want to do with your life. one of my daughters is probably inclined to politics. she wouldn't admit it. i say to her, would you want to run for office? she said, not until i made my money, daddy. joe and i were lucky. i was elected to the legislature
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when i was 26. no relatives in ohio, no support, just a couple of buddies. i went to the united states senate at 29. i went to congress at the age of 30. joe was there a long time and becomes the vice president. we made the nba. you ask all these kids what you want to be and they say i want to be in the nba or a soccer player. some make it, but most don't. but the most important thing for young people is to carve out your career and be about the things you believe in the things we have talked about here already. if you want to get into politics and be involved in a movement, that's good. but as a young person, i wouldn't make it the center of my life. i would get on with my career and make something.
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-- dip int been while while you are making your career. there's nothing more important for women to do now than to stand together. there are movements around race, movements around the environment, fine. get yourself established. get yourself something where you are strong yourself and then dip in. whenever i hear a young person is going to washington, this is really not politics, i say, ok, when you go, when are you leaving? i'll tell you why. how many staffers do you know devoted a lifetime and a career to a politician and the politician walked out the door the staffer was left with not much? don't be seduced by that. but make a difference. i guess i'm being contradictory in a way. but i want you to get your
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degrees. i want you to become something. i want you to stand on your own two legs. i don't want you to have to depend on somebody else. and involve yourself, but don't disrupt that specific mission you feel you were created to perform. lindsay: mr. vice president? vice pres. biden: i don't disagree in any fundamental way. it starts with the same premise. my dad used to have an expression. he said it's a lucky person who gets up in the morning, puts both feet on the floor, knows what they are about to do and thinks it still matters. think of your parents' generation, how many people they know are very successful, and, at age 50-55, no longer thinks what that does really matters. it is a lucky person who figures out what they really want to do and be. it's a hard thing. it doesn't come from us people they are in high school or college. it comes after exposure to other
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opportunities. the second thing is, i think you can serve the country without being involved in public life, without being engaged in the public process. i did the commencement at yale. i was making the case that, you know, there is a professor i had here who had a gigantic impact on me. he was in the political science department, one of the brightest. he talked political philosophy. he was one of the guys who had the most impact on me and my career. i remember what he would say. he would quote plato. plato said the penalty that good people pay for not being involved in politics is being governed by people worse than themselves. that is deadly earnest and true.
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think about this. if you go out and you do very well -- and i hope you do, financially or professionally -- one of the things that is happening today is that a lot of the elite college graduates, democrat and republican, coming from middle-class backgrounds as well as wealthy backgrounds, are self-isolating. you tend to mirror the people who have the same taste and education you have. you tend to be with people that are people that share the same values and care about the same kind of entertainment, art, recreation, etc. for example, there was a study. all the people who graduated 1992-2002,d, from they lived in 42 zip codes.
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over 65% of them. i can tell you promised every senior staff person lives in washington. they live in their own gated communities, figuratively speaking. there was a test done by a book that was recently rewritten. it drove my two sons crazy. i had them take the test. was still when bo alive. did you ever grow up in a neighborhood where 40% of the people did not have a college degree? have you ever been on a factory floor? do you have whole milk in your refrigerator? not a joke. think about it. if you have a chance to buy starbucks or a dunkin' donuts coffee, where would you go? who are your friends? the middle class is becoming increasingly isolated. people coming from the middle class are self-isolated.
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there is a new elite in america and the new elite is not based on your pedigree or where you are born. it is based on cognitive capability. but there's not much engagement anymore. there's not much engagement. for example, i have a guy who was with me here at the university of delaware. his mom was president of the janitor's union in rhode island. he comes from a modest background like i did. he and his brother are great successes. his brother was a national security adviser. he has been one of the leading people in terms of public policy. he's here now. but i asked of the president, when we got elected, what do you want? he said, i want you to let me set up a middle-class task force. so i called 19 cabinet meetings.
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he gave me authority to do it. the first cabinet meeting, i said i want each of you members in the cabinet within the next , month, hire someone who answers directly to you and has no other obligation other than what they can do administratively to ease the burden on the middle class. one cabinet member said i don't think that's a good idea. i said do exactly what the hell i tell you go talk to the president. i wanted to make sure he understood. the first guy that came to me was geithner. smart guy, decent guy. i said i have this great idea. he brought in senior people in the treasury department. we know how to apply set 528's, those programs your parents have to save for college that is tax-free. i had a guy named jerry bernstein, a labor economist. all people of modest means.
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that's a great idea. i said i don't know who has a 528. but they all did. the people where i come from and me, when i was making $42,000 a year and had a kid at yale, a kid at penn, and a kid at tulane, i didn't make enough money to save for a 528. what percentage of people qualify have a 528? it ranged from 20% to 40%. there was a headline, it is probable no man who ever assumed the office of vice president has
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fewer assets than joe biden. i said i bet you know more than 10% have them because they don't have any money to save. i said, if i'm wrong, i will take each of you to lunch at every restaurant you pick once a month, all of you together. guess how many people have them? 7%. is, we are not remembering where an awful lot of people are. engaged, youget can put yourself behind that gated community. but you can't hide from the ozone layer being eliminated. no place to hide. you cannot hide from the drinking water being polluted. you cannot hide from your brother being profiled because he is black and stopped in the street.
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you cannot hide from your sister being denied to marry her female partner. you cannot hide. no place to hide. whether you end up being an investment banker, professor, teacher, salesperson, or involved in public policy, you have an obligation to be involved in public policy. you have no place to hide. no matter how much money you make. no matter what happens. i am not discouraging from making money. i should have raised a couple republican kids. all my kids did the wrong thing. one kid goes to war and then becomes attorney general and gives up $800,000 in income. the other gets an mba and goes to the treasury department and then ends up heading up the
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world food program usa, and my daughter goes to tulane and graduates from penn with honors and runs the largest nonprofit in the state. i need one kid making money at least so when they put me in a home at least i have a room with a view, you know? folks, i have said enough. but you've got to get involved. don't tell me there is no opportunity. it is wide open. it is wide open. you can drive a mack truck through the opportunities. i'm serious. last point -- shorenstein school put on this study. how much of the graduating class had any interest being involved with public life? when i started, it was 40%. now it is down to 14 percent. lindsay: i think that is a good
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transition to our class, which is here. gov. kasich: one thing, i want to talk about politics and education. you all know we are entering the fastest-changing economy in the history of the world. the number one occupation in america is driving. what's autonomous vehicles, approximately 10-11 years down the road, you tell me what is going to happen to people who have those occupations. k-12 education in many cases is not preparing young people for college. when you graduate from college, you are not prepared for work. anyone who from here graduates
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and works for amazon or google, you know it the first thing that they will deal is? they will train you. we have to realize experience gives the power which gives the income, which gives them the hope. we need a complete reengineering of our k-12 system that is not based on 100 years ago or longer. where people are in touch with the real business world. where the skills they need will be imparted based on the things they want to do and where the jobs are. the same is true for higher education. the two-year community colleges have done a great job at being able to respond. the four-year schools not so much. i do not know about delaware but i would say we're not preparing people for the jobs of the future. why don't we change it? it is too hard. i am a principal or superintendent, you know what
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michael is tomorrow? goal isnow what my tomorrow? i want to be a superintendent. i'm the president of the university. do you think politics is the only place where people do not have courage? it is not true. what i am suggesting to you is this issue of workforce training and connecting people with the skills that are part of the future, there are a lot of important issues. it is a long list. when people get left behind and they are in youngstown, ohio, and they don't have a job or a skill, what do you think happens to them? we have to reengineer the entire education system. online education put up by businesses, there is a multitude of things that can be done and it needs to be done. i know that google has just offered $1 million to train people in i.t. that is not the only place they need to be trained, but god bless them. but this workforce issue is
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something that can take somebody who has nothing and give them the power and the opportunity to become powerful in their own right and do much good in the world. i needed to say that. lindsay: thank you. [applause] would like to feature another component of the national agenda, where the speakers get to meet with the students and ask questions. i thought i would ask if students could stand up and say hello and thank you for what you are doing. [applause] lindsay: what i would like to do is start with these national agenda students. you can get an inside peek at what our speakers go through. you can kind of see what we do in the classroom except now we
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are in a room with like 650 people. so no pressure. let's start with a question from sarah. >> thank you both for being here. so, this is a question for both of you. i was in a congress simulation class. we picked a party and district. at first we wanted everything to be bipartisan. we were going to pass as much as possible. slowly that competitive nature within us all came out and suddenly nothing got done, we cannot agree on anything. it was frustrating and disappointing. my question for you, how can my generation keep the mindset of getting along and do you think sometimes winning comes in the form of letting things go that you wanted and finding something in between? v.p. biden: one of the things that my staff used to always get
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upset with me about was when i , when we passed an amendment, i went out and said, why don't you introduce. i wrote the thing. why don't you introduce this, do this, do that. my staff said, you are never going to get any credit for that -- you have to say it is your idea. guess what? the best way to become well-known and well-respected is to yield to other people and give them the opportunity to present the ideas. it is called human nature. human nature. and there is so much inf-serving today, including your generation. although you represent the most open, tolerant, and giving generation in american history. but it is about being able to decide what is better for the group then what is the best for me. it is interesting. it is, again, think about it.
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you figure out who the one among you is who is really the most generous and brightest and does the most. it is not because they tell you. you figure it out. you do not have to wonder. it is the same way in sports teams, in everything we do. it is human nature. right now, john made the point. there has been a dumbing down of the culture. that it is about me. i want to be the star. the best way to become a star is to make other people the star. if i can make a football analogy -- you notice the halfbacks and running backs and quarterbacks are the most revered. when they score a touchdown, they walk back and hug the lineman. not a joke. guess what?
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the linemen bust their asses the next time. gov. kasich: did you do better at the end? >> we started to get along at -- after the republicans walked out. [laughter] gov. kasich: here's the one thing i will tell you -- we all absorb that which we agree with. what we need to do is stop just absorbing that with we agree with and absorb stuff we don't agree with. we might find out that some of what is being said would be deeply appreciated. i will tell you a funny thing that happened a couple days ago. i was talking to this lady, she is a preacher. i had my daughter's principal with me because i thought it
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get points from them. we found out this stunning thing, colin kaepernick is a devoted and serious christian. nobody knew that. isn't that interesting? people will hear that and be like, that can't be true. what i'm saying is, absorb something you cannot agree with. it is hard to do. but i think it is worth doing. lindsay: thank you. let's get a question from jordan. we are in the middle of free speech week. the question has to do with free speech. gov. kasich: free speech on a college campus. yes! [laughter] >> vice president biden, we have seen recently protests of conservative speakers. these protests sometimes shut down the speakers altogether and sometimes there is violence. my question is, what is your
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take on these protests, and how would you encourage people to be more accepting of opposing viewpoints? biden: when i was coming up through college and graduate school, free speech was the big issue. but it was the opposite. it was liberals who were shouted down when they spoke. and, liberals have very short memories. it is a demonstration of what has been lost here. the first amendment means what it says. you're not allowed to stand up and yell "fire" in this auditorium. you are allowed to stand up and say "biden i think you are an absolute jerk and by the way, i think we should do away with or i believe that race is a problem in america."
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look, what we do is we hurt ourselves badly when we do not allow the speech to take place. speech can move to the point of incitement, and inciting riots. the truth of the matter is, the incitement occurs before the person even speaks, let's called -- and that is on those who are engaged in that violence. not on the speaker. when i was at berkeley, i went to the public and said they're absolutely wrong to deny the ability of the various people to go out and speak. i mean, look, if your idea is big enough it should be able to compete. you should be able to listen to another point of view, as virulent as it might be. rejected, expose it -- reject
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it, expose it. don't let the trumps of the world be able to compare you to nazis or racists. you are doing the same thing. you are silencing. if we mean what we say -- i taught law school for 22 years. the first amendment is one of the defining features of who we are in the bill of rights. and to shut it down in the name of what is appropriate is simply wrong. it is wrong. lindsay: thank you. i think we time for one more student question. glad she didn't ask me. [laughter] this is an area where i would disagree with joe. if there was some hate speech person coming, i would not let
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them come. i would just not let them come. here's what i mean by that, hate speech. we had one of those "hate speech speakers." the college president called me is that we're not going to let him come. i said, good with me. i think there is a common sense element. we're not talking now about people with very diverse ideas. we're not talking about that. whether it is left wing, right wing, we're not talking about that. we are talking about someone who is therefore the explicit purpose of trying to incite. that is not the issue. we should not have it. that is kind of how i feel about it. if people like it, great. if they don't, don't make me president of any university. lindsay: thank you. we do have time for one more question from one of the students in the class.
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would you like to ask a question? this is for both. >> i want to thank both of you for being here today and my question is for governor kasich. president trump often uses fake news, when a news story does not go along with his narrative. do you believe that calling the news fake is harmful to the country as a whole because most of us outsiders like people who are living in washington dc, that is where we get our news from. or do you think the media does not cover politics fairly and accurately? gov. kasich: i think if you are all about the eyeballs and money you're not doing your job. there are ethics required of journalists, too. i do not think i have ever used the word, "fake news" about journalists. journalists are critical. i have great respect and admiration for them. do i agree with them all?
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no. but how do i deal with this? i read all kinds of stuff, stuff i agree with and the stuff i do not agree with, just try to figure out what the truth is , because there are three sides to every story. your story, everyone else's story, and what the truth is. i do not want to disparage them but i do tell you they have to carry responsibility. when the election was over, i called an executive who runs a big media operation and said you , made a billion dollars they're going to tell you to make another billion, my question is, if you make the other billion are you going to be able to look yourself in the mirror? my view is that we respect them. we have been slammed by them, praised by them. it is part of what it is in the life and politics. to all of you, don't narrowcast. then you reinforce your opinions and that is not healthy because the growing experiences to open your mind for things you never
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thought you would experience. guess what? you do it and you grow it and -- you do it and grow and you are more satisfied in life. so, i would not use that term. lindsay: mr biden, do you have any comments on fake news? v.p. biden: yeah -- the first attack that occurs, on freedom of expression. and, the limitation on the ability to abuse power is to attack the press as illegitimate. if that sinks in enough, then what happens is you can do a lot
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of things if you are in power that allow you to accumulate power and abuse the power. i think there has been a concerted effort on the part of breitbart and others to try to so discredit the press that then when you do things that are the flat abuse of power, they are characterized as not you doing anything, but as fake news. i really did not do that. think of the things, the bold-faced lies that have been asserted just in the last eight months. i am not holding any water in my hand. who says i'm holding water in my hand? it is fake news. i mean, things that are blatant. as blatant as what i just did. when you delegitimize the press,
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to the degree that they are not believable at all, then, you know, katie bar the door. it is all about abusing power. accumulating it and using it for your own purposes. and, by the way though, one of the things you're going to have to figure out, your generation, every generation has had to deal with it in some form. you know, radio changed the way politics works. television changed the way politics worked. and, the social media is changing the way politics work. it is a great liberating tool. but how do you, it is a rhetorical question, how do you determine what you get on the social media that you in fact, what do you determine, how do you determine whether or not what you see on the internet is accurate or not?
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how do you make that judgment? it is awful hard. recently you have seen the ability on the internet and social media to actually superimpose my voice on another image and see the image and looking like joe biden is saying, i love those nazis. not a joke. it is happening. now that capacity exists. you are going to have to figure out, your generation, what is the filter you use to determine whether or not -- not a like or dislike that you get -- but what you read on and what you see on social media and the internet to determine whether or not it is true. how do you do it? it is hard.
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what i predict is going to happen, there will have to be there will have to be some rules -- there will have to be some rules of the road and i have been wide open about not restraining the internet my whole career. but think of what has just happened on facebook and google. you have a foreign power paying hundreds of thousands if not millions of dollars to run unidentified ads going after a candidate to try to change the outcome of an american election. and facebook oversimplified it, saying until recently -- that is not our responsibility. what would you do if the local newspaper allowed ads to be put in the paper without any identification of who took out the ad? john doe is a rapist.
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he has been convicted of rape. you just don't know it. with nobody's name on it. you would think it is outrageous, right? what in the hell is going on? you and, by the way, there is only one thing i do know a whole lot about, and john served on the committee for 10 years. i know a whole lot about our foreign-policy and national security system. i'm telling you, there is a full-blown unadulterated assault on the openness of our electoral system that is in fact , frightening. it is not just happening here. it is happening in france, germany, moldova, it is happening all over. what is it designed to do? breakdown, fundamentally breakdown those elements in our
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governments that prevent the accumulation and abuse of power. that is what it is about. and, by the way, i promise you, i promise you you are going to soon see how extensive it has been. so for somebody heading up facebook to say "i've no responsibility," to out ads so sophisticated where they are making hundreds of thousands of dollars, millions of dollars, with no identification. it turns out it is russian government-sponsored ads to try to affect the outcome of an election. it may be the democrats today. republicans tomorrow that are targeted. doesn't matter. so, it is one of the things i predict you are going to have to negotiate. what are the legitimate, if there are any legitimate
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constraints as it relates to the dissemination of information and those entities that are within the united states jurisdiction. you guys are going to spend more time in the next 10 years on that then on anything else , without curtailing opportunity to speak, and at the same time, giving some reasonable prospect that at least, at least you know who is paying to have the message put out. lindsay: thank you so much. i think we could continue this conversation -- gov. kasich: this is important . joe is hitting on an issue and if you put 10 people in a room , they may come at it different ways. there is a problem. so then the question is, can you get people of good will not representing their party club but can you get people of
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goodwill to sit down and figure this out. like unlocking the information inside of an iphone. reasonable people who love the country and put country first can sit down and work their way through so many vexing issues. maybe they cannot solve everything, but they can work their way through vexing issues if they are of goodwill and work together. i believe most of these things can be fixed. thank you for allowing me to be here. you have a beautiful campus. i had a chance to walk into the middle of your campus. i mean, it is fantastic. you should be really, really proud of it. i do not think you could've done any better than to have joseph biden associated with the university of delaware blue hens. god bless you. ok? [applause]
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>> the former director of the office of government ethics has filed a complaint over comments from kellyanne conway during the alabama senate race. the complaint is she violated the hatch act i attacking the on nationalandidate tv. president trump was asked about this race when leaving the white house yesterday. mr. president. are you going to talk about roy
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moore? >> i can tell you one thing. person, need a liberal jones, his record is terrible on crime, on war. need someone going to be bad on crime, war, the military. it.enies if you look at what is really going on, over the last 48 hours, he totally denies it. he said 40 years ago, this did not happen. i will be letting you know next week.
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we don't need someone who was soft on crime, like jones. >> [indiscernible] itore -- moores denies it. he totally denies it. women are very special. i think it's a very special time. a lot of things are coming out. it is good for our society and good for women. i am happy a lot of these things are coming out. i am happy it is being exposed. >> [indiscernible] >> i don't want to speak for al franken. i heard about conyers a few
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minutes ago. franken will have to speak for himself. i would rather have him speak for himself. >> [indiscernible] putin, we are talking about peace in syria, north korea. we had a phone call that lasted an hour and a half. we feel strongly about bringing peace to syria, bringing peace to north korea and ukraine. louder. can't hear you. i won't get involved in litigation. that was a deal not good for the country. i am not going to get involved in litigation. thanksgiving.
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moore, do you believe him? >> he denies it. it was a total denial. 40 years is a long time. he has won eight races and that has never come up. all you can do is do what you have to. >> [indiscernible] >> i really do. they should. have a good thanksgiving.
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>> coming up on c-span, a look at the differences between private and government run prisons with a journalist who wrote about his experience. a discussion on recent actions by the crown prince of saudi arabia and what it means for the united states. and local democratic lawmakers talk about the democratic agenda at the local level. road to the white house 2020 kicks off tonight with representative delaney of maryland at the kennedy-clinton dinner.
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getalks about how democrats supporters to the polls. here is a preview. [applause] donald trump being the democratsmeans, didn't turn out, and we stopped talking to people about what they care about. the first part will take care of itself, the energy this party is showing is extraordinary. remember, we have to talk to people about what they care about, not what we care about. democrats have so many issues we care about, and in the fullness of time, we will be proven right. that doesn't mean it moves people's hearts and minds. what moves them is their job, pay, the opportunity for their kids. every time we are not talking about that, every time we are talking about how bad the
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republicans are, it is a missed opportunity. that is how we get this country back. >> a portion of this speech by 2020 candidate john delaney at the kennedy clinton dinner in new hampshire. he was joined by ohio democratic congressman tim ryan. tonight at 8 p.m. eastern on c-span. >> journalist and author robert merry on his book "president mckinley." >> he was a very effective president. you can't quite measure how or why why he was able to accomplish what he accomplished, because he was in direct, incremental as a manager. force, he had amazing capacity to manipulate,
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and manipulate people into doing the things he wanted them to do while they thought it was their idea. >> sunday night at eight eastern on "q and a" on c-span. >> next, a look at corporate run prisons. shaner jones" reporter at a for-profit prison to investigate the industry. this is one hour and 15 minutes. >> good evening, everyone. my name is nina cam. -- nina kim. i am glad marissa is not my editor. god.ng to 15 words, my welcome tonight's program with inforum at the commonwealth club, which tackles the

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