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tv   Conflict Zone - Guest Zoltan Kovacs Hungarian government spokesperson  Deutsche Welle  October 4, 2017 11:30pm-12:01am CEST

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ballet house icon the first residence designed by radical pianist masterpiece of modern architecture but what's it like to live on. your own backs in sixty minutes. what does a football loving country to which its goals. will tell you how german soccer made it back to the top. in our webspace. football made in germany. the e.u. is getting increasingly fed up with hungary its refusal to take a share of migrants and refugees and a whole raft of new regulations and laws my guest here in budapest is all time kovacs the prime minister's international spokesman how long is this government
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going to keep playing the bad boy in brussels. its all time covered welcome to the conflict zone thank you for your escalating rounds with the e.u. and other bodies you seem determined to take this to a major rift why. we've used to work here ask a lady have used the roof and all that which i don't think are appropriate here because. we see tendencies in the decision making procedures in the life of the european union we don't like we name that that's been our politics policy making for the past seven years there are major bones of contention on that yes but the only way in our belief that our experience to sort
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out problems is to name that that and that is talk about them in a frank manner in a way that can assure that at the end of the discussion if you like a debate a fierce debate at times the solution is that it sounds very reasonable the way you're discussing it but actually it's not getting any better is it in you yourself said the fight is just at the beginning the front of the debate is your opponent there are issues and topics in which you're going to be unrelenting so you're prepared for it if you have to find we're going to go for it one lesson we've learned from the past seven years not necessarily in the field or in the by the topic of illegal migration which is in the focus for the past two three years becoming matters our own constitution it was worth taking the fight because at the end of the day turned out that we were right and we don't like to be vindicated
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that's not very wise if you're a politician or if you run the country still better less and be able to put a past seven years the e.u. commission has launched an infringement proceedings against hunger the treatment of most groups were a few jews that didn't like your march twenty seventh in the side of the law restrictions on civil society organizations legal reforms the dominance of as they put it of pro-government media these these are serious issues out there and they're not giving away yet. we've seen so many topics so many charges rather against hungary for the past seven years that again this is nothing new so we go for them because you don't take them seriously we didn't i mean how can you how can you take it more serious than you to go for a legal debate because and at the end of the day it's going to be sorted out legally and you went to the european court of justice the liturgy day they turned down a question on whether it was possible legally to make a decision like that back in two thousand and fifteen in face of decisions about
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a mandatory quote yes falling for if something in place of two previous decisions on behalf of the heads of state which clearly said no to that now we face a problem here we have knowledge the decision because apparently legally it was possible to do so but immediately we face a very serious political and yet again legal problem and you acknowledge the decision that's right your foreign minister actually is on record saying politics has raped european law and rate european values this decision practically openly legitimizes the power of the e.u. above the member status friday and then that's what the setting aside that inflammatory language what kind of e.u. did you think you belong to well there we face a serious political issue which eventually becomes a legal issue and that is how the decision is done decisions are made in the european union that this is not a new well you knew that the e.u. member states have no legal right to resist those orders and that's a real problem because i get that again goes against the most important word idea
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philosophically if you like within the european that is consensus if it's possible to do so and up to this members are required to accept the judgment of the highest good at least possible to go around even legally rightly go around political consensus in the european union that doesn't make sense that it. and then what happened back in two thousand and fifteen in fleet of e.u. law takes precedence over domestic law in the e.u. you e.u. law is part of domestic law yet you have to you have to involve you in arcade it in to your law if you wanted to engage in a legal that we all know that even though it's a particular law as it is being called it's not international law it is as if it's right and lawful it is incorporated into the member states legal system and that's where we face a problem because for the past seven years even more we face a tendency and that is the stealth mode of decision making and on the formulation
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and on the standing of legal possibilities in the your opinions and decision making process that is tending to overwrite what is in the treaty but that's nothing new i mean the other states of experience that if you didn't read the small print they do when you join the e.u. if it's nothing new for you it's probably not for us it is because you know there are limits there are red lines we've drawn around suddenly decided what they are now we suddenly bump into some serious problems and that is our sovereignty here who shall decide and listen to the accident and that's right about that gratitude be a lesson actually to brussels bureaucracy because it's. not a cause it's an outcome of problems regarding the relationship of brussels of his of the london but you went to the court to see if they would overturn the ruling the mandatory quotas they didn't so you accepted the jurisdiction of the court as i do that and the court turned you down now you don't accept the result and we have accepted the you have acknowledged the result even that isn't regional except if we
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have a change in your we have you have acknowledged that legally it was possible to make a temporary a decision on temporary measurement which we believe again politically is not right because that goes against the consensus on the higher political level we still believe that the highest political decision making body european union is the council mitchell my point my point is you. you are not going to accept those quotas are you we are not going to accept the court that's despite the ruling of the court because you were locked up because you are bad losers that no no the question is not you went to the court court turned you down you're a bad loser but a bad loser would be to sacrifice his lot of things even when but be a second transit a lot of things for a reason and that is to sovereignty issue. even in temporary decision we are not accepting any composite of decision who shall we live together in a country we have never given up at that element of our sovereignty and we're never going to give it a bit give it up and we still whatever it takes however fire you have to push this is we are going to use all political and legal means actually to go against that
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that's right in march last year your prime minister spoke condescendingly of flocks of obsessed human rights defenders feeling the overwhelming urge to reprimand us and make allegations against us and that's been the case for the past couple of years that's what you you join the club you sign up to various commitments they're going to review your progress that's that's the point of joining the club why complain about it. i'm trying to every drawing terms on them and everybody comes on the period about doing to me this discussion into some something reasonable it's our vision of how to take human rights how the soft elements of cooperation in the european union rule of law constitutional issues going a brazen principle and if you don't like being held to account you know know it and then the subject that's not the case the think is that there is a sense that human rights defenders you don't we want to we want to avoid making it
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go you want to avoid the kind of review we want to avoid that something an interpretation is taking over the right sense of the word we have agreed to and that's what is happening the blade a point about this is that you don't feel that the europe you joined is a valid europe anymore you set your government now apparently sees itself as protector of european values your prime minister said twenty seven years ago here in central europe we believe that europe was our future today we feel that we are the future so why do such as you what you've suggested here this from a man who boasted in twenty four to you know what i mean a real king with the dogmas and ideologies that have been adopted by your question suggested something which is completely untrue. we are not breaking away from the european values and the perception we had we stick to it and that's the difference others are trying to make is something different we have agreed to you believe that
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you are the future of europe we believe that that hundred that's quite a tall order for one goal jairzinho yes sure but hungary is not standing alone i mean if you take a look as for the past especially two years what are the bad boys in the european union you can name that better let's let's talk serious the central european country is eventually more than ten years after their accession to the european union has come to their. full fledged perception of how they believe the opinion should be working and i believe this is something new there are some european powers divest a member states have to cope with and that is central european countries for for an obvious reason that is historical source of logical economic reasons a legacy we carry here have a say and different say about how we think about your opinion and you should better listen listen to it it's not against europe it's a different slightly different vision actually well. listen to it while i'm in the west is turning down what you stand for your illiberal democracy in april even the
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center right grouping in the european parliament the b.b.c. which includes your party for this war knew that it would not accept any basic freedoms being restricted or the little rule of law being nobody's recent and if you don't that they're not buying your explanations are there they are by we've we've been through that for a past couple of years and same economy very able to prove that we have to hang on in line with european regulations as a matter of fact speaking better or more to the regulatory lined or out lines that have been there and others we are able to refurbish our economy so there are lessons western europe should if not learn at least a fluke because they took a look at they don't like it in may this year that will put up. aliment condemned what it called a serious deterioration of the rule of law like democracy many fundamental rights and so this is the name of the game if it's about cooperation and discussion the
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end of the day you have to reach consensus it's impossible that the best in european countries because states group or states enforces something on others what they don't like so that's not going to work and that's that if you ask about the future you know that you're a member of a club and the club has rules and you're not accepting the rules but the rules should be based on consensus. based on majority action again consensus here is very important palooka you trumpet your european i goes into europe is telling you we're not buying political consensus goes beyond simple majority give a half step for the belgian prime minister in obviously rebellious he's a great friend of hungary yes that's right yeah he said you signed up to the values of the union you have violated every single word. my question is. is a great friend of hungary and being ironic here he's been accusing us he's been throwing us various things which have nothing to do with reality but the thing is again he's not alone in that in europe is not alone in his criticism city his now
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but he belongs to one particular cell the lines really like you human rights organization this also is because your own n.g.o.s criticize the so-called liberal mindset obviously doesn't like what happens here in hungary because we go against their dogma which is trying to. ensure that all achievements in the european union are being called liberal that's what we deny coming back to your liberal party you know there's a very nice sentence on behalf of the prime minister which are took us a couple of years to formulate very shortly but it's very nice and this is liberalism is fine it's not the liberal sweep in the elections and i believe this is what we talk about here political differences a different mindset is not supposed to overwrite what what and they are the real nature of europe and decision making and the future of europe and that is everything is based on consensus and consensus is more than a simple majority mistake of a ship why bother with the if you're determined to break with it dogma and ideologies as you put it why bother or is it just the money the five point six
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billion new get that was it's billion euros you get every year because it doesn't money that's another favorite point here which is being brought up if you take a look at how hunger is corporate in with european institutions and the european integration it would be made because hungary with campaigns like let's hope brussels and economic brussels in most issues i would rather say that ninety five percent of those issues actually we have consensus on and we work together hungary is fully cooperating as a man i think we work filing six billion euros a year when you're running campaigns directly against the organization that gives you this money you bring in here another topic which has nothing to do with human rights and the soft element of corporation the opinion the cohesion funds and the support hungary and other european countries mostly center on the eastern european but also southern european countries received from the budget are not a gift. as a matter of fact they go back to the very foundations of the european union and
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they tend to gloss or rather than the goal the task is to close the gap between the development differences in the your pena we have opened up our markets disadvantaged position for the best in europe you've opened up your market your staging what your prime minister called a revolution against the alliance of the bureaucrats brussels the liberal media and the insatiable financier if it also broadened in brussels and the finances so insatiable why keep on taking their money have it have you ever been involved in running the state even see a town or a lodge of rock everybody you know that going against rock recy is a legitimate call. brocket it tends to brussels rock yes because in many in many respects the what the writers name with it why not go with it you put a kind of how we saw the exit you put the question which have never never been raised by that anger in government if you take a look at the government positions behavior that hungary and populations support
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for the european idea values it's unquestionable so it's a false argument it's a force narrative that is being used against us. are not going to play that game when i but chancellor merkel has already suggested that you may have financial penalties to cope with that the a.t.m. machine is going to be switched off haven't she she's already said anyone who rejects this solidarity she means side with the migrants must accept that this will not be without consequences including for negotiations of the future financial support yet again you try that so that you're trying to suggest here something which was which is simply not true again the coming year what you said actually over what is coming from the western european countries what is coming from the european budget to hungary and countries like is not a gift it is to ensure that equal access to that market competitiveness and other the issues can be achieved and for there for that reason as
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a matter of fact the cohesion francis them that is the money coming here and mostly going back to western europe is a mutually beneficial construction. now take a look at mr thinker's words at some point maybe a year ago he was very clear about the benefit of the beneficial nature of the creation that you let people in your pool of that money that money is going back to the rest of europe and there are people going to find you like party who seem to want to head for the exit but a man called salt by probably didn't commit his name correctly he said in july and the local t.v. station here if the e.u. continues along its current path then we have to leave the union leave this whole scalding pigsty as he put it we need to get the hell out we have to close our borders and let the rest of them rot he said buyer is not a member of the government money is a co-founder of your party sure but he doesn't have the examining of the device valid again he's probably loners if you try to put up here a completely misleading and force narrative. and you want to accept that some of
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those quote i don't know what you want to stab that there are legitimate claims legitimate issues on which we have to talk differently especially in the light of what happened with the european union for the past ten fifteen years and then you're seriously wrong because when we name problems when we call for issues which are not with the main stream in european public opinion especially the liberal public opinion or liberal political opinion. we like that fight because we believe that that's a territory where the fight should be done if you like of might also you like a fight also about christian values don't you. you can't deny claim to be upholding christian values but you cannot deny the very foundations of european culture but you ignore the pope's core to exhibit those same christian values and open your doors to migrants that you. well. we feel you're a follower that oakley was or you were so his journey is you also have to know that the religious commands and politics sometimes are in conflict because your first
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responsibility when it's about taking care of those who are in need goes for your own people that sounds good but at the same time you know he is a leader of hundreds yet again when we talk about a religious leader of hundreds of millions of people and your state and central europe you think you know better about religious values and what christianity christian values are than either you have a point that is an extraordinary position to be in isn't we don't talk about religion proper here we talk about those foundations on which europe itself the continent and the european union is based but i'm not sure it's on what basis do you lay claim to being the protectors of christian values in europe and that because apparently for expression for the past couple of years western europe is tending to forget what those values mean and who you to judge when the judge and we are trying to put religion we have we're just trying to portray what is happening and this is you know if you want your religious credentials. if you don't name
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a problem if you don't name that we are shifting away from our own values and give you giving up your own where yours doesn't mean the very anything good actually for the future of the european continent or especially for the european union if you take a look at the their predecessors impounding fathers if you like of european politicians the firmly believe that europe should be based on christianity if not religious proper religious terms but certainly culturally and if you refer to way shift away from that it's going to cause very serious problems look looking around and looking at this is this look around the globe nobody's nobody's playing that game but there's a body if there isn't there's a disconnect you claiming to protect christian values that at the same time your authority is accused of illegal action including deny entry to arresting some really rejecting and returning refugees using disproportionate force of migrants and refugees as well as reportedly assaulting journalists and yet there you are
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standing up claiming his ice as i see we do have here a serious linguistic problem as well because you stick to the word refugees and we seek to do a reality that this is not a refugee right if you don't see the migrants there is a migrant asylum seekers who are part of a larger intercontinental mass migration wave and we stand here unprepared are all the tools and methods are not working and as a matter of fact we have defenseless in place of what is happening so for the first inherent differences in the face of twelve hundred people that the e.u. wants an island defenseless in the face of two million who came in the past two years discovered one of the other big bones of contention between the hungry in the involves the central european university which has been founded by. hunger inborn philanthropist george soros operated here for the last twenty five years or even a graduate of it was right got a ph d. in history your prime minister has called the university a fraud and accused it of cheating did you go to
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a university that cheat. well i've attended the university which has provided. value our educational support for many hungary and many central europeans what we are talking about now for the past year is not about that it's about regulations just changed which to which center european universities and twenty seven others were not coming up so when we change regulations and this is a rule of law that's what you claim that one hundred should be there can be no exceptions but the real issue is not the regulations is that the real issue is that it was founded by george soros against whom your prime minister has a personal vendetta personally this is this is a man who's talked about the soros plan indeed this is a very interesting action plan that describes exactly how disobedient nonimmigrant central european countries should be transformed into immigrant countries and in this dishonest has got under your prime minister skin indeed this is
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a very interesting discussion because your questions and accusations seem to be reflecting reality which which is not is not the case with the sheriff's name himself as a political actor. europe wide but also massively in hungary in the previous in a number of previous interviews as a matter of fact going back to two thousand and fifteen they claim to become a political actor in this country and if you wanted to become you know some news you know use but he hasn't got a democratic mandate for that it's not a it's not about technicalities the university it's about him it's not just on the companies in your crack down on the central european university is because it when you seriously believe that it's a technicality that you need the democratic mandate to become a political act where you'll start your minister of human capacities let the cat out of the bag zoltan balog he said you know the existence of a strong or thomas an internationally recognised university is in hungary's interest but it's not in our interest to have players in the background who can see
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. spiraling against the democratically elected government so it's all about sauces and that's why that's what it's all about science is not about the university or its regulations when or its laws but an uneasy use is about him when an institutional network or elements of it are being used for political purposes without them democratic mandate we face a serious problem here mr shorrosh has never been given a democratic mandate many of those who work in those frameworks and networks actually he's running his money is running have never been given the democratic mandate to represent what they represent as a matter of fact they do not simply represent what they do they go for it they try to push this through their the idea that he's trying to push you to accept my goodness this is a man who wrote the e.u. cannot coerce member states to accept refugees they do not want all refugees to go where they are not wanted he actually supports your being he's not trying to coerce you to become anything at all as you as well you know or didn't you read that
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article mr short has written many things as a matter of fact in most of his writings it's a completely different picture what you see emerging and that is going back to two thousand and fifteen and that particular writing or lecture is still available this was september two thousand twenty six two light sent to you last year in the noise here back in two thousand and fifteen september here suggested at the peak of the migration crisis completely different things as a matter of fact he has taken action talking to teachers of the european union using his influence through the framework. of the shorrosh network also the european union's institutional framework to make his ideas happen on the ground is what he does is a very serious very briefly because we really have to i'm going to let this university function if we come up to the expectations yes of course. so you doing in your heels on. again you expect hungary work as a rule of law if there are rules everybody should come up to them and the other
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universities including you american universities are able to come up and it's a question of willingness for the capability so don't call it good to have you in conflict so i think you meant. to go to get. google google google google. google. google.
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