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tv   Close up - Masouds List - From IS Victim to Terrorist Hunter  Deutsche Welle  October 18, 2017 11:15am-11:46am CEST

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and. the war in syria. caught up in the middle of it all is a young kurdish video journalist. spent two years documenting the atrocities committed by the so-called islamic state. until he became a victim himself. three
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something. he said. kill only just made it in early twenty sixteen he and his mother came to germany to join his sister and brothers they used the balkan route passing through turkey and southern europe shortly afterwards that route was closed i took that the session off leaving because of some security reasons i was obliged to though that like any
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other person was a life to leave his whole city this country. it all began in syria for two years masuda kill filmed and photographed the conflict. first. move to put down a popular uprising. later the so-called islamic state came on the scene setting up a brutal regime in parts of syria and iraq during this film we're using masuda kill zone footage from syria. we couldn't believe that in the twenty first century or of this time that something could have been a big a big area could be attacked by isis and thousands of people how it could be that they would be kidnapped and we made some pictures in the beginning and later we
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stopped covering and we started to help the people. in august twenty fourth teen thousands of iraqi kurds most of the muzi days fled to syria they were leaving their homeland in center where i asked was carrying out a genocide our people have been killed by isis a woman lake is in the current this will it be sold in the slaves market so we are very and we suffered from all these things so we don't want these things to happen to any other people in the world for that we are fighting these cases in the summer of twenty four to kill was just twenty one years old. they were talking about the first massacre suffices here in the beginning of august how how did they attack them how did they start to cut the head off the old woman at the head of the kids to bring their kids into two pieces here and the kidnapping of a young woman to leave her so you use them as a sex slaves. they blame all the world because let them an easy target for this
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kind of wall of monsters the young syrians spent his early childhood in kaminey now a kurdish bastion in northern syria he lived with his parents and four siblings as he explains in a book about his experiences published in germany. we had a good life information on the border with turkey where i was born in one thousand nine hundred three in one thousand nine hundred ninety five to damascus where i completed elementary and high school. then moved to aleppo to study english literature but he could not remain untouched by political developments his family won't go. the landowner's many cards in syria and neighboring countries are calling for an independent state he began working for a kurdish underground newspaper the conflict with the regime in damascus on the one hand and the oppression of the kurds by neighboring turkey on the other dominated
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his worldview that the political situation is different because it is the you know depending on the free syrian. and they don't listen to the kurdish people the time and the administration we found that in two thousand and fourteen they were against it because that everybody there working with turkey everybody is there to turkey to cut that to saudi arabia. but then the kurds found themselves facing a new opponent and a new threat. in northern syria the kurdish p.k. was fighting the so-called islamic state it actually started in twenty twelve when the militants in syria were still fighting under the banner of al nusra auntie's. for twenty months massoud a kill continued working in syria for a kurdish television network based in the city of irbil in neighboring iraq.
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he worked with a kurdish reporter farhad hamas. the two of them often visited shaikh made a hardy of the arab tribe of. an ally of the kurdish y p g militia. but in syria's complex war it wasn't always possible to know who was a friend and who was a phone. that must dangerous was a friend who was a phone. that must dangerous was covering the front lines the front lines against isis at that time the core of this force is why. p.g. and even the peshmerga they didn't have the heavy weapons at that time and going there with no safety it was completely dangerous. but at the end of twenty fourteen events took a different turn things started looking up for the kurds and that arab allies.
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i didn't know that this summer two thousand and fourteen would be the end for me i didn't throw that because that summer was like any other month full of dangerous it was winter cold we were going covering the nearly five kurdish cities every month and. in late twenty fourteen the united states announced it would be supplying weapons to the kurds and that arab allies in syria and iraq to assist them in fighting ioannis germany provided antitank rockets to the kurdish peshmerga in iraq . massoud now believed i asked could indeed be defeated. what happened next was not what he expected. going on that dangerous road at that there which we wanted to do that interview it
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was a dangerous road which we were driving. and i couldn't expect that one day that will happen the team we're going to visit to shake and his arab colleagues as i had done so many times before my student his colleague hahaha my shock and last footage together on december sixth twenty fourteen at six am. nine days later they walked into a trap. my workmate for had waked me up to tell me look who are these people they were nearly ten meters far away of us their car was stopping in the road and in that direction to the iceland and i get shocked to see them all wearing their masks and i as militants appear to had
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a tip off they had strayed deep into kurdish territory to wait for them but had homo and mustard are killed were captured. the longest time was in iraq up present. it was far around one hundred days it was a football star and this made city central for augusta to hear it because. the so-called islamic state appeared well organized. it's like a prison i was present and this paper had been formed by an isis member he was from tunisia and that was a national diety prison then came on so tear up my suit was in six different ions prisons in all.
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thank. they tortured us with. with every with every instrument they can torture us. they started first of all to investigate and ask questions and during the answering they started to tortured me beating me by sticks on my legs on my back slapping me on the face pulling my hair and every day or every two day and sometimes twice a day it was the pending on how much the prison guard is happy that they or how much he is angry i can't for about their eyes the only thing i remember
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their eyes so i want to forget the vitamin but them all the time i want for that and. the business of the world your heart both iraq and syria are known historically for using the most savage torture methods and techniques and those doing the torturing a mostly from iraq and syria. is a puzzle in common those to me of art in the hopes of i have served as army officers or prison guards and they know how to inflict pain on human beings. can you believe that the third joining was. i wrote and saw so such a kind of something should be done sometimes in the day which they didn't torture any prisoner. we were feeling that something was missing something weird is
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happening. yeah. so that the only the only it's. the only way you are told to to endure that clause or to live with it if you do and as your feelings change your values and the whole core of who you want to talk to seek to destroy the personality the individual had before they were captured it's very deliberate was. the i asked prisons were a living how. think you smell of the cells prisoner so when they were screaming during that cursory. some brazenness moment it others were freed managed to smuggle a message on to his parents. at this point he was still together with his colleague . there was
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a hole in the wall and we were using this hole to talk with each other and to to make some funny recording this whole skype we were feeling that to that i'm not alone and he was feeling that he's not alone we are still together and the war stays as i told you it was the days in which they let us. put just anyone each other each one of us you know in a sale so we didn't know what will happen next of that and. you know it was tough moments. all the while the kurdish t.v. broadcaster was working to locate its two journalists. without even knowing if they were still alive. in january twenty fifth. placed in a cell with a man who would later remind him of his time in prison. was convinced that his
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fellow prisoner was actually an i.a.s. supporter. he was confident he wouldn't be in prison long as he had good connections. he talked a lot i stayed silent i knew it would be dangerous to reveal anything to a man like that. is indeed known for locking up its own people as punishment for minor offenses. yes wanted to build a totalitarian state prisons and torture are part of the methods used in totalitarianism. he was part of isis and i knew he would do his duty and immediately report back anything that might incriminate us. helpless i listen to his heroic stories until i pretended to be tired and turned away to the war. this is a very typical pattern often uses spies in its prisons. it. tens
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of isis win there. isis prisoners they were and the isis members were telling me this they're what they want and how do they act and they were finding all these killings and all this. torturing they were find it useful. in march twenty fifteen miles and saw his colleague far hard for the last time he left rocker's football stadium further prisons fall and. he made friends with another fellow sufferer haji issa from the northern kurdish city of cobain. he was. not really he didn't there for get afraid to face
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a thought he was later. i had the chance although the chance to see him in a video before he's being cured isis published a propaganda video killing. the militants even exploited children and propaganda. when i saw his eyes his eyes pulled me that he told me that i felt his talking to me telling me he still hating them and here. and i hope one day you do something to to vanish to a story i says massoud photoshop the picture of. removing his captors and this image he's not a victim but a hero. one
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day quite unexpectedly light came into my life on september fifteenth twenty fifteen and i asked a man called out my name along with seven y p g fighters. they shoved us into the back of a van which drove down a bumpy track into the night we were thrown all over the place and i could soon taste the dust and sand of the desert on my lips. last winter killed was exchanged for high as terrorists including four from north africa who were being held by the kurds. after two hundred eighty days in iran's captivity his parents came to collect him from the kurdish why p.g. the militia was keen to parade their success and publish the first photo of my suit
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in freedom. he was the first kurdish civilian to be freed from my ass captivity in syria. his colleague for heart was released a few weeks later it was a defeat for islamic state. change of scene but the end of twenty fifteen when hundreds of thousands of syrians were heading to europe must kill decided to join them the risk of falling into iran's hands again was just too great he chose the balkan wrote ending up in germany a journey fraught with risk now when i think about it. i feel myself stupid a little bit i still myself that. after i had another chance to leave again i put myself and i put my life again in danger. of them all better then to discover that on arriving in europe islamic state was here to.
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iowa supporters launched numerous attacks on european cities targeting berlin and december twenty sixth game. because they are here where they are you know they are in all of europe otherwise what happened in the. beginning of the last new year when that man who has carved it killed many people even just before many days in paris on. in france it happened and even in many places in the world it happened in belgium so many attacks from that there's no it's coming to europe with the influx of refugees from northern syria twenty fourteen twenty fifteen brought many members of militant organizations to germany there were isis members and others to. kill so as the very same supporters that he had encountered in various prisons in syria and now here in europe. he tracked down most of them through the internet. you know only twenty sixteen he passed through the process of
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being registered as a refugee in germany he was just one of hundreds of thousands no one was interested in his information on ins. you know it wasn't like you expect you know they then i thought that maybe they will be curious to know more but. it wasn't like oh it was just like a procedure and it should be done and they would call the next what do they do i give it to everybody in europe but that i mean european nobody listen to me i say they will come back with more experience as in the ending the people in killing they will not care about any of the. and this is what's happening for him into a corner and. because of the n.s.a. affair and questions over germany's cooperation with u.s.
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intelligence our main office for questioning was shut down and this and of course it's very difficult once you've lost that capacity you know whether you're talking about my office or the german foreign intelligence service to rebuild that. we didn't have that ability to start from cold. and we could. so what happened to those i asked supporters from syria who came to europe finally in the autumn of twenty sixteen massoud decided to go to the police force published his book to spread the word. for. they are not refugees they are criminals. black people people who had to hold people who had to join. radical groups. islamic radical groups over people who had their crimes against the syrians in syria or iraq. this is also said to be active in germany's refugee
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shelters. and isn't there a very good at what they do they act almost like social workers they take care of the people translate for them they are there for them when they have concerns and at the same time they're indoctrinating them. and skip the corporate there is the group of i as terrorists who have come to europe with the task of conducting terror attacks or to begin a horrible program called and but then there's another group of i asked fighters who perhaps just want to remove themselves from the fighting. there is still dangerous because they totally believe the ideology even if they haven't been commissioned to carry out an attack at this time the trend. in recent during long sleepless nights i must ridicule draw up a list of suspects its muscle its list i have a source. from the kurdish forces and other members of. the prison including the prisoner he matin who was so confident that he'd soon be freed. i was
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shocked how could a radical man like him be in europe i checked his facebook account dozens of his friends were long beards and their facebook pages were full of radical posts about jihad. initially he even posted his address on the internet the man who massoud akil believes is him by a supporter now apparently lives in switzerland we decided to find out for ourselves the the. big enough for now instances mission few in fact we believe that in many cases this information from refugees is genuine and reliable and needs to be investigated there is of course also information which we believe is incorrect or just can't be proven and believe. and sure enough we find the man in switzerland the refugee that
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massoud says he knows from the prison in dandy we decide to question him. if you ever been an isis person. should. you can there were i asked people from her soccer who kidnapped me. because i used to take part in demonstrations against the regime and. to our surprise he claims he was first tortured by the assad regime so is the man in fact a victim not a militant we confront mass ridicule with our recorded interview. is that realistic at all. times what the man says to be totally illogical and then phone not credible
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why would i say this punish him for opposing the regime of president assad. he said that. people are there is because i refused to hold the gun in the demonstrations. against isis. was when the bombing we believe well over eighty percent of the tips from refugees are reliable and guns also tied a lot of the information provided by refugees are incorrect and simply aimed at defaming others so you have to treat these accusations very carefully. so we tested mass murder kills information once more. there are people saying that you gave coordinates of kurdish settlements and eye socket to isis is that true. so. he shakes his head and you are sure that he is not this guy was
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a. hoax what i said and how come that you were so sure he was talking about. my eyes down thoughts when i see him he's and i just remember so i believe myself what i see and what those he told me talk about what did he talk about. the refugee and switzerland has since deleted his profile on the internet. and feared often the youngest a few years ago many young i asked you how this would post photos online where they would probably talk about the violent acts they'd committed. and i was very helpful for the german authorities when they were later carrying out their investigations. but the young jihad is now are much more reticent about giving out information so does nor does it surprise god like my informant soon nobody had this kind of evidence which the authorities need we can't as i told you we can't bring their
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fingerprints from there to here you know but we have. we have names i think stated that dates off of. of course they did where they were at that time when they were in syria in which the cow little guy is asian they were looking for so we have this kind of information. the debate over the value of information provided by refugees is and he just beginning but one thing is clear that germany urgently needs some of that information in the fight against terror in europe and will have to stop listening to the new arrivals family closely .
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