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tv   Faith Matters - Inter-confessional Churches in Germany - Divided and yet United  Deutsche Welle  November 1, 2017 3:30am-4:00am CET

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d.w. . good job of. your link to news from africa and the world or link to it section stories and discussions from all use as easy as i want website to double the poem slash africa join us on facebook at g.w. for god. welcome to quadriga what that means out of the way you read it is that. women's talk w. . more women. more talk when we build our station you'll find out what is what w. . thanks. a church with two pastors. fight skop on on the right is a catholic priest. teacher on the left is a protestant minister. and
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this. is one divides you in this church. makes zero. but if you put it like that i'd say zero there's much more uniting us than anything that could divide us. it's why did mine were two parishes saying the same thing in different dialects. finding the same words. calling on the same god saying the same prayers and. yet there's a grill separating this church in eastern germany into two sections. this division has existed for nearly five hundred years st peter's in bautzen is
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one of the oldest and largest intercon fashionable churches in germany. inside there are two of everything but they're not identical catholic pews have an eel or protestants don't generally kneel in church. and of course there are two altars the catholic altar at the back. and the protestant altar at the front. each of the parishes has its own organ though thank god they're not used at the same time. the service times are staggered so that the two communities don't tread on each others toes. and of course confessionals and votive candles are only found in the catholic section. the tabernacle and its light are also specifically catholic st peter's is a church divided in space and in time. the roots of these intricate sessional
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churches lie in the reformation in fifteen twenty the good folk of bautzen were pretty enthusiastic about martin luther's reform ideas and just four years later the city council decided that about. and would become protestant that meant the cathedral was turned into a protestant church. john marling is an expert in local history he says the intricate fashionable church was born out of necessity it had nothing to do with our contemporary ideas of ecumenism. in those days the issue of who had a right to the main church and who could hold services there was decided pragmatically. nine hundred ninety or ninety five percent of the residents were lutheran so they held sway in the town on the other hand the cathedral clergy officially owned the church and they were catholic and they had the emperor on
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their side so it was checkmate if either side had triumphed it would have been the end of an into confessional church. and. outside a gutter marks the approximate dividing line. inside it's more complicated take these pews for instance there in the catholic section behind the grill you might think this whole area belong to the catholics but it doesn't the deeds office confirms that this spot actually belongs to the protestants but in a marriage of convenience you have to bend the rules sometimes. this could provide more when you do negotiations were held and the final arrangements were set down on paper as these at least three pews were given to the catholic parish in exchange for a more convenient service time that's why the lutherans hold their services at ten thirty instead of before eight as they used to for so many of the students in order
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to do it by ten thirty a.m. it's much better than seven thirty an outcome that suits both sides father scott brown says the intercom fashionable church is both a challenge and an opportunity. we have got if i didn't care about it the church would be divided we could have built a stone wall on the one side protestant on the other side catholic then what happens on the other side doesn't concern me just leave me alone in my own four walls but instead we have a grill separating us and i can see the other people through the grill booklet how .
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at one time there were some two thousand to enter confessional churches in germany today there are only about sixty many of them are in north eastern bavaria and. like this one in action felt. pickiness we don't know any different that's how we grew up catholic and protestant. for me it's what i'm used to i only know intercon factional protestant catholic all the same.
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is the lutheran pastor of corpus christi church today there is a family service with a sketch. of the church is much too small to duplicate all the furnishings. the parishes share the altar the pews and the organ. that. was real but that's my. thank you for. the clergy also share one sacristy the cupboard on the right along to pass to the one on the left to a catholic priest. the catholic pastor only makes an appearance about once a month there are not many catholics in ash in felde germany's two major churches are losing members and intro confessional churches offer both a solution. is that what is the way of the future so i do times of straight and finances and shrinking congregations it's also an economic issue that protestants and catholics share a church building those are economic advantages combined with trafficking for. the
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relatively large number of intricate fashionable churches in north eastern be very is unique in sixteen fifty two the catholic ruler counts close to an hour ghost of salt decreed that all churches in his territory were to be used by both catholics and protestants. marcus lama is a catholic theologian and local historian he explains what motivated the count one could decide on both chris and i was you could say christiane i'll go start i have a dream and his dream was that the christian confessions which were at loggerheads and which had fought and killed each other in a thirty year war would come together again and he realized that it wouldn't happen from one day to the next he knew it had to be practiced on a daily basis. and so he created these inner confessional churches as a kind of training camp to achieve reunion one day. the count's unique approach has left a legacy in northeastern bavaria that ought to be promote it thought this man spate
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of. he's a lutheran pastor and an avid cyclist so he created the intricate fashionable church cycling tour. four hundred kilometers across the northeast of bavaria with the into a confessional church as always and you the small churches can really use the publicity. and the idea was to find a way of making these churches better known so that people would donate money to maintain the. pastor. and his catholic counterpart at an ecumenical parish party. the many centuries spent in accounts into confessional training camps have paid off. it was sometimes rather difficult there were many conflicts in the past as there always are when two people have to share a room as it were. but generally we could find a good solution. to
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a few common. i just don't know of any we don't lie. and. the two pastors take us on a stretch of the intercom fashionable churches cycling tour here we discover something remarkable. the church served by pastor. it's a former into a confessional church that is once again being used by both confessions. the nearby catholic church is being renovated and the protestants are currently hosting the catholics. the temporary sharing of a church building doesn't of course automatically make it into a confessional. the tabernacle and its light are also just visitors. and.
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in cathedral near cologne the enthusiasm for enter confessional churches is rather more muted in this region most catholics are conservative traditionalist the rhineland was a bastion of the counter-reformation so it's not surprising that the two pastors an out and back aren't even able to agree whether their shared building is an intricate fashionable church or simply
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a catholic church used for enter confessional purposes. it's a catholic church used to fall into confessional purposes as is and is in one time of course it's an international church. the catholic church or a parish especially my catholic counterpart has a different view of the legal status but that's how it is. in the cathedral building belongs to the state of north rhine-westphalia both the catholic and lutheran communities use it as their parish church. this is symbolically portrayed in the statue entitled. the embrace. jesus embraces not only saint panhard of clay of all but also martin luther. the cathedral is divided by units of time four hours for the protestants the rest
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for the catholics. shortly after ten a.m. the cathedral becomes catholic. luke losing has been given a privilege this sunday the fifteen year old student has been chosen to carry the holy relics from the sacristy to the altar the skulls of the brothers john and paul who died as martyrs in the fourth century. the relics may only be displayed in the sanctuary during a catholic liturgy. for the rest of the time they have to be locked away in a cupboard. dan had shifted from a throne and that sparked a reformation of the trade in relics indulgences that's more they shouldn't be displayed prominently in an intercom factional church synagogue that's not really a moment most of course the participants don't want them but wait another hundred
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years and then maybe they'll say they're also our forefathers in faith who also died for us in the faith who were killed while they also in our altar wait and sing modify list of. monsignor berish is a conservative priest he views all aspects of catholic rituals and liturgy as nonnegotiable. today the service is especially elaborate the parish is celebrating its patron and
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feast. to. her. traditions are important here. part of the service is conducted in latin. head.
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to. the masses at the heart of catholic. and it has been the cause of a centuries old quarrel catholics believe that the bread and wine consecrated during the service truly become the body and blood of christ. distance believe that they merely signify his body and ought not to be treated as holy objects in themselves. because catholics believe that the bread is substantially changed. they keep the remnants of the mass in a special safe called a tabernacle. because theoretically a lutheran pastor could simply throw away any bread that was left over.
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in the afternoon the church becomes protestant again a portrait of luther replaces the venerated sculls. pastor pasha chairs a discussion on the family. there are not many protestant items in cathedral it's into a confessional use is not immediately apparent. to you. mind of the community gathers and wherever community assembles in god's name the church comes into existence the externals are not so important. to him. the catholic church has a much higher profile in and around cathedral for almost a century it has been the focus of the catholic youth movement in germany today altar service from the archdiocese of cologne are meeting here.
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monsignor birch is heavily involved in youth work. there are no fewer than eighty altar servers in his parish. wonderful the weather is good the mood is good lots of children and young adults that does an old heart good. thank you monsignor his heart was presumably less happy at the ecumenical service that took place later. he walked in to gether with a lutheran pastor although he doesn't view her as a validly ordained minister. thank you.
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and if i'm going to a place there are no priests in that interim church you know people commissioned by the sacrament of orders and empowered for instance to forgive sins in the name of christ dispensed the sacrament of holy communion and unfortunately that doesn't exist in the lutheran church i don't dispute that there is someone who holds office and the head of a community there are all these people and we get on ok. and i think. getting on ok doesn't sound much like a united community instead out of their cathedral is an example of the differences that still exist between catholics and protestants sharing a building doesn't seem to have led to mutual acceptance.
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a few hundred kilometers farther south in fribourg attitudes are very different. until his retirement a few months ago khan had was a parish priest at the catholic church of st mary magdalene in the new liesl fails to strict from the beginning he was convinced in an area where forty percent of the
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residents don't belong to any religion christians shouldn't start by excluding each other in fact the catholics had enough money to build their own church but things turned out differently. the division is to i knew coalition is of one church that we don't need an exclusive spot for each of us but one space one church one altar where we worship together the minds on fire. the trick in fribourg is that there are two separate church spaces that can be converted into one space when required. thanks thanks to the caretaker stefan pletka explains thank you often the people often ask how it works that i usually say electrically was i don't have to do anything manually push things around and it's all done electrically. the mobile walls are eight meters high.
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the largest measure is one hundred square meters and weighs thirty tons. yat they feels right this way hard was meant to be a big church for everybody and a qualification for that. yes but most of the time the concrete walls remain closed despite all that these christians have in common and all their pious hopes in practice their differing be. use on the eucharist and on the role of women in the church keep them apart. but in mary magdalene parish the people are open minded and the architecture is intended to reflect that. father is
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ling as vision extends far beyond a shared church building his concept of the catholic church in the twenty first century is very different from that of multan your bush in altenberg here there is no latin mass no confessional. yes there you can restrict theologies are a source of division but father in a sling and his parishioners seem prepared to venture out on new paths it's no coincidence that their church is dedicated to this female saint they view this disciple of jesus as the thirteenth apostle and a guide to the future. we hope of course that we have mentally reached the point where there are also female priests in the catholic church. the women and father islam as parish have benefited tremendously from this attitude. at a parish council meeting so hamm is here to represent the catholics she's
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a lay theologians her opposite number in this group is the lutheran pastor louisa miller who is. the young catholic theologian has an important role in the parish leadership but the protestant pastor is a constant reminder of the ceiling that limits women in the catholic church. was. my time for the same have the same first name and we're about the same size we're very close for other reasons and it hurts sometimes more sometimes less that it's only the historical tradition of the church that now stands in the way. it comforts me that the parishioners understand mine i am a theologian and i have something to say in my life of faith. and they respect and appreciate that and i condoms but the aptest it's however the young catholic theologians says she would never consider becoming a protestant she is committed to the catholic faith and believes that the church can be reformed she says the fibroid parish is
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a good example. you can follow and as you mentioned i'm certainly attracted by the fact that there are people here who think sensibly about what the christian faith means. and i think part of that is rethinking the role of women and to include them in a good way with equal rights as far as possible so i decided on this parish because it is progressive in so many areas not just with regard to the role of women but also in the language of the liturgy and it all belongs together in one package and in. this young flyboys. this young flyboy church has little in common with the enter confession. all churches that arose as a result of the reformation. the two church spaces are deliberately similar here the catholic church. and their the lutheran church a mirror image. there trying to overcome their differences in
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search of a new unity. catholics and protestants under one roof it makes economic sense and it can enrich both communities spiritually. but as a vision for the future it can't be applied to every parish.
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