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tv   Quadriga - Macron Or Merkel Whos Leading Europe  Deutsche Welle  April 27, 2018 6:30am-7:01am CEST

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now she and her family and even in ten. she's also getting help in un for coming in disability. the children of war. on. a lot of very welcome easy to portray good coming to you from the hearts of now for many years angle america has been the key figure in european politics the european leaders some commentators have even called her the leader of the free world but there's a new contender for the leadership role french president tomorrow macross has just completed a state visit to washington the first foreign visitor received such an innocence donald trump took office and he rocked congress with
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a speech in which he defiantly challenge president comes position on climate change free trade and the iran nuclear deal so is mccraw about to eclipse angela merkel both in europe and internationally. mccrone oh medical who's leading europe that's a question on quadriga this week and to discuss that question i'm joined here in the studio by matthew carney chief europe correspondent for politico matthew argues that mccall wants to leave europe but calm while medical could leave europe but what. also with us is his person all think i'm the journalist for the french magazine the plan when she argues that i'm going to medical used to be cold the queen of europe now in money well my call seems to be the new king and the woman who tunes or coasting family who's based here in government were hoping for the suit dodge inside to who she says is in germany's interest to support friends not just in its efforts to reform europe but also in transatlantic relations thank you
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all three for the here with me today here in hungary to muster up let's begin with you just say given you know i've just pointed out that your quotes of the top of the show says that emanuel mccrone wants to lead but calm i think we don't that quote from you before this address that he gave to congress if you changed your mind since you had the address no no no i haven't i think the problem that he has is that france is just not strong enough alone to take a leadership role in europe to take the kind of steps in europe that he really wants to pursue i mean he has the image he has the energy certainly but without a strong endorsement from germany it's going to be impossible for him to take things forward and i think this is the real frustration in france now that they're not getting enough support in paris from the germans and it's really not clear whether that's going to change and at the moment it looks like you know the time is just running out in on these really crucial issues involving the eurozone reforms
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and the steps that they want to take to integrate the eurozone more and to make it crisis proof as they say every step is so controversial in germany that it's very hard to see how europe is going to take this great leap forward that amok. has been talking about ok we'll talk about the talk of war between france and germany shortly kodos let's just bring you in a given person you are you're a french representative you're on the panel today what's what was your first impressions of this this all day shift address from your president in washington well i think a lot of people were quite critical in france is this president who sort of dancing around with with these controversial and difficult american presidents and i think the talk in the congress has changed the view a little bit because he was critical of you dressed difficult points and he's not simply the puppets of don't know trump and so it's changed the balance and and added credibility to to my corn farms in terms of most custom yeah but you know
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it proved actually what you know and american has been in the leadership now photography yes that's true but she has never been a good speaker so it and given that michael has really it's talent to try to give speeches that are really going around divert like actually like obama was able to be it was reminiscent of obama as you see i used the word or very last legs actually that what came into my mind to obama could i'm blessed by birds and also my kong and that and my collars various want to use are going in the dialectic way so i mean so he can say on the one hand i try my partner and a transatlantic relationship but i'm on the other end very quickly critical so when you say he's really as you say he's operating in a dialectic where you mean he's being very cunning yeah exactly that is what. i want to say and now i mean your staff for three days and now is coming for three
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hours and you see already to different but. to balance that a bit i would say and what i said also in my in my statement and of course after winning the election in france my call was kind of. leader of your already because here he made sure that your view not take be taken over by the by le pen and others formed. a wide spectrum and everybody also in germany was very happy but you saw already at this time that in germany there was this electoral campaign and that was not really a big big want to a european idea as it was not and now we have the chapter and equalization today if first chapter is about europe but the man who nec o.c.a. to death trapped into the coalition treaty of mr schwartz a former s.p.d. lead that now he is tired let's say we're tired he's not there anymore and nobody is actually taking now to step two or put it into reality i mean
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my call is for the moment he is in the. leading position for your ok we'll go already mentioned off a very public shows of warmth and affection for president trump in the first part of his visit to washington emanuel mccrone delivered a remarkable speech in congress in the address he spoke without his vision of global leadership challenging many of donald trump's positions not least his determination to put america first and shun internationalism let's listen and we can choose isolationism withdrawal and nationalism this is an option it can be tempting to us as a temporary remember if to all fields but closing the door to the word will not stop the evolution of the word it will not dollars but inflame the fruits of our
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citizens we have to keep our eyes wide open to the new risks right in front of us. was it dialectic was it covering go don't know what i mean by question because that was it was it a deliberate strategy you know did he first of all give. the american president and then stab him in the back now first he's building of which and then you know i let's put that picture i would prefer to picture that mccaw is building a bridge towards triumph and then he invites him to go to come over to put and now it's up to tom whether you would like to do that or not i mean he was very clear mccall in his speech saying that he tried to atlantic partnership it's a very big issue and they like it is but as he said we have to open our eyes widely and you have. to work together not against each other i mean this was. i think i'll go back to my god it says that i think he was addressing two different
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audiences with the speech and with his treatment of trump and the sort of the padding and the hugging of trump he was obviously trying to reach trump and that probably didn't play as as well back home but i thought it was some sense and it was well i think there was a look there was a little bit of a. you know cut if you will between his treatment of trump and the pictures and the speech i mean the speech was you know in parts was was was fairly harsh but i think that the speech was more directed at his home audience and so that he didn't lose credibility with them but he doesn't look like you know trump's towel boy that he's just standing there being being you know nice to him and and grinning along with everything that he does and i think that it's a it's a difficult it's difficult trick to pull off and he seems to pull it off but i think you know the proof is in the pudding is that as they say and we'll see what trump does in the coming weeks because all of this will only matter if trump does
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what europeans want him to do which is to not impose the plan steel tariffs and to not withdraw from the iran deal and at this point it's very questionable that that he will will toe that line which is a one second at this peace speech one second only and your question off his t.v. show actually called the leader and him i mean he was the first person that spoke there in washington gave that speech as and i think that on to the question it's have actually nineteen my call now is truth and kill us we're going to be in the same place it is i know too but it was if you destroy yeah that's nothing he's very clever because it's difficult recently so eager munya and complicated like donald trump you know when he was elected the whole western world went. i mean you're not going to get him into your boats and if you just show you know hora. so first invited him to paris last yacht to the fourteenth of july celebration and
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reminded you know the stong code since the war but i mean the strong tradition and the history we have in common and now he's playing these yeah which is resourceful comes very good in america all these pomp and circumstances and it's almost it's not there's nothing by the budget and i think it's it's probably clever and better than all america mrs natalie mediately after the election went as a as a protestant you know the daughter of pasta and started saying you know you have to respect democracy and of course you know trump was immediately restoring and he's going to be difficult. he was he played the child i mean the bar is now very high for him and i think it's better to be soft and charming with such people then to forgive the raise the moral finger the less you know i did you'd mattawa softer him i mean she can do much better and much more partisan take i mean you know what we
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all know that angle america can be an incredibly charming and winning individual we know this you know i mean it's often must but it's a you know let's try men over many people i get silence when i was a much older like like trump for a woman like me as a woman she's not the attractiveness she's not very young and she's not even my own yeah exactly i think you know beyond these you know the sort of superficial qualities which you know i wouldn't i wouldn't doubt that plays a role in trump's mind there's also the fact that she is also the representative of the refugee policy in europe as you know which is trump's you know main domestic issue is the danger of islam the danger of of of letting in refugees and so forth so i think she's also a symbol for trump and so it's just for that reason alone it's very difficult for him i think to have a good relationship with her because it would force him to disavow some of his core positions we're talking about relationships you could argue that emanuel micro is
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really the only european leader who has so far made an impression on donald trump the two men speak of each other as buddies and commentators have been calling it a bromance but just how far does the friendship go. the jewish defense meeting in may of twenty seventeen was that a handshake or over wrestling. by the way mccall seemed to have won over the unpredictable trump. late himachal invited the american president to be guest of honor at the busty de military parade with all the pomp and circumstance trumps craves. arriving in washington d.c. mccall stepped up the flattery with a symbolic gift from a french forest where involved one american and french troops had fought the germans side by side. it's a rather touchy feely bromance. and trouble is
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that a male friendship with political benefits. because the trump and mccraw we've got thirty years apart we've got an intellectual go to t.v. junkie a little so good an internationalist i'm an isolationist what is the glue between the two explained it to us i mean and if you asked yes i could see that i depict as they like to play to each other with a receipt other bidder to raise as a small talk and the clue i think is that both is what trump actually like so it's my call and what they also said both they are two bozos outsiders not coming from vs have lisha mental so it came into power by by an ex are they now a circumstance both. and. they are both safe made man like tom always underlined on his own. empire and.
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position and they are both very powerful but they are both in bottles at this point in time and must brother by source or one very recent survey of their level of dissatisfaction with the amount of oil mccraw in fronts at the moment it has now reached fifty eight percent according to one poll and we're sitting here talking about him as a prospective sort of european or global leader where i think the french when they're dissatisfied they're not to such side with his foreign policy or with his trip to america they're dissatisfied because he's trying to change fonts and to reform and we have these strikes the train strikes and students strikes and and the employees strikes i mean this is you know this is an inherent problem in france it's a country which is very very difficult to reform it's attached to privileges it's attached to tradition and he's very very he said he would do it he's doing it and i think he's very brave because you greedy breakage he's doing that and you have not really big strikes i mean i saw already yes ago really huge strikes in front and
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now what we see now it's really much more i would say i was surprised by. it's interesting that the that you mention that france is again talking about relatively him for influence of medical and mccrone of the relatively influence of france and germany you said that france is a smallish country on the on the global stage but france has three things that germany doesn't have it has a permanent seat on the un security council it has a nuclear arsenal and it has the capacity to take part in strikes as it did very recently against chemical weapons targets and in syria that's a very different bracket bright and i think the third point is really is really important just sort of the military capability of france writ large is something that germany doesn't have and in terms of potential u.s. partners for trump at the moment france is actually as a greater capability even even in the u.k. where the military has you know very very various issues. and you know the reality
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is that france has shown a willingness to engage in very difficult and dangerous military operations and that's something that that trump and that the military brass in in washington value and take very seriously so i think this is another you know very important bargaining chip that that france has views of united states at the moment is something that merkel can't really offer again and on the contrary actually even germany event it comes to germany in washington i've been there were recently i mean for many people in the u.s. administration germany is a kind of an enemy like china boycotting economic germany it is an enemy like try and off i set kind off of course testes up last india and detroit badlands and america is always trying up and talking about trade and economy stuff like that and if it comes to to things like foreign policies or germany's often say ok just do it
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and good luck but we are not involved in it and that is also a big problem and what they see in washington and what makes it more difficult for macko to get. along this this trial so it did it didn't help her case i think when when she arrives in washington that germany didn't participate in the air strike in syria. well against this backdrop what about the european project which many commentators say is in danger of falling apart that's why in one on the cross fervently believes that france and germany must work closely together to come up with fundamental reforms will it happen though well when the french and the german leaders met here in berlin recently the messages were distinctly mixed. they want to do is anything but romantic in mid april chancellor merkel took him under lock onto the construction site of the homework forum in berlin deliberately chosen to stand for europe as a construction site. not call it already presented his architectural vision months before
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a sovereign crisis proved you with common foreign defense and financial policies now he's awaiting merkel's response shockingly possible i don't think it's a matter of are talking about one or the other instrument but of our being certain what objective we hope to achieve of our having one and the same political goal it's good that of course the positions of france and germany always have different starting points i know we need to bait and we need open debate and the ability to compromise in the end it complements. backhoes pragmatism and because vision directed at the same goal. to question to france and germany pascal have the same goal. on certain subjects yes i think in europe on the whole yes of course and it's very it's very clear for the drums as well how these french german mult are is important and the terms under the american says it's i mean they know very well that in this difficult world in turmoil europe is very important but
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michael has made some very precise propositions and and on the finance plan you know the european budget the european financial mean minister and and they are the germans are i think the majority of the drums especially in the party of onto the map and it says it's very uncomfortable the conservatives there are very many many a lot of apprehension and a lot of people don't want that at all and so it's very difficult for michael because on the on the one hundred see interesting on the one hand he's election was a triumph in germany everybody loved him because he's young he's clever he went through this very good a little bit early to have french system he can talk and i mean they're absolutely you know they're in love with him as the obama phenomenon it is the obama even yeah exactly maybe more because it comes from yeah anyway and then he makes proposals which the germans are very suspect about and they don't want to go as far as that
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it's too dangerous for the germs and merkel is again like in the in you know in the in the defense policy she is tied by parliament which is you know the french president has a lot of power he can decide everything on his own sense you know raids on syria and decide about the european policy more or less on his own but the german council and it's a sign of democracy has to us the parliament and the parliament is not going to say yes to our european budget and to european financial okmulgee what is going to happen next. is not very well certainly mention i would say we disagree with you i think the americans should you know could show more leadership you could show more . courage and really say we need to do this we need to do this this is important and here's why that is what has been missing in this debate as you say the germans really liked my call just like they like europe they like both in the abstract but when you get down to the details that's where it gets very complicated when you
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start talking about measures that might force germany to pay more of put more german resources at risk then all of a sudden you know the stop sign start going up and i think this has been a big frustration for the for the french and these discussions and the problem is is that the time is running out and at the e.u. level in the coming months there's sort of a mountain of things that need to get done from selecting a new e.c.b. president selecting a new commission president selecting a new council president and so forth your bottom new parliament to completing the budget and they haven't even succeeded in completing them to the next budget under the current european commission and it doesn't look like they're going to so it's very difficult to see how this might call merkel dialogue is going to result in this great leap forward that we've been hearing about from my call for the past couple of months has this also got something to do with the fact that mcchrystal is the is the new kid on the block effectively he's turned to angela methley says i need your help and and she i think it has more to do she suddenly looks like
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a spender knowing that she looks more to do that she's just unwilling to engage in this debate because she doesn't she knows i didn't have to know it for her own peace from her own people not months and i made the mistake of not putting it at the top of the agenda in the election campaign it's at the top of the coalition agreement but in very vague language but they did not put it out there during the campaign and say this is what we're going to do in europe this is why we need to do it to explain to people and then they would have had a mandate they don't really have a popular mandate to do anything major in europe at the moment i would thank you disagree because of course it was not an issue and you can elect a new term election campaign and it was really a missing part in that that's true but actually america is now and whole fourth and i have. body sings and i think including her are from there in the states to find a term so actually death could could lead to a more freedom and liberty year she should feel free to just to engage and to try to put out because things and not only sinking in the small stuff and i would doubt
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that she's done drilling to do so i would really doubt that she's not drilling to go further and your of this my combat. dissing is she's not fighting for that and she does not have to support of her own party and i mean ok and then you can ask ok if she's not fighting to cannot have to support so at a certain point she sort of starts fighting she should go out and give a speech and i like actually if you talk to people in the cons them cancel and ask them so what is the difference between my call and most of the day say slightly. more smiling is a smiling face the difference is that my cong gave speeches and america did not get gave a speech so please i think she should feel free to go to university or somewhere and to give a big speech about europe and what she wants to do in europe because what we are missing still is her proposals for your i mean my conk a mouth and everybody is discussing this my compost with and everybody now. looking
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forward to germany could go with mark all along but right doesn't come germany out of his own proposed. speech is difficult for merkel yes i'm sure if i am in the ranji crisis you have the formula of the shaft and those will manage it the speech is difficult you can do that and that's ok it's another style but you could bet on things like what am i just proposing here and that and the insights that's true if you want is not my thing on the issue really european i mean she didn't she was great europe here i think she is but she grew up in the europe she grew up in east germany she grew up she got she didn't grow up like michael who as a child you know was fourteen. so he's never known anything else than europe and you know travelling. thing that i'm it's a very it's an emotional thing but it sits in the in the bones something like thirty years ago. going to the time for speech is probably passed at this point and
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that's i think the challenge that yes it is ok the question we have been addressing today america who's leading in europe who who is sitting on the front seat of the famous two hundred customs for the moment sitting down and germany. to follow him to sit next to him. yeah i agree with that germany has weeds the french have waited six seven months now to. take the take the lead. and now it's really time. to time the i don't think it really is a tandem i think that that my call is sitting there trying to pull along and merkel this is dragging your feet and then it's just business huge this is the huge problem and it's probably not going to change the structure but it thanks so much will prove a great debater i hope the tomtom doesn't get a flat tire that a note thanks very much for joining us sir come back next week to order to get just by by
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