tv Interview - Klaus von Dohnanyi Germany and France have to lead Europe. Deutsche Welle May 27, 2018 9:02am-9:16am CEST
home or saving. globality goes tell stories of creative people and innovative projects around the world like deals that protect the climate boost clean energy solutions and reforestation. using interactive content to inspire people to take action global audience and series of global three thousand on t.w. and online. it was a minister in the governments of billy brown and how much mitt his father hons was a leader of the anti nazi resistance he himself doesn't shy away from voicing criticism not even of his own party we're talking to him about the future of germany and of europe. thanks for coming in. it's a pleasure. to fund and work with some important chancellors and your close friends
with angela merkel. given your wealth of experience to share or ask you for advice . i don't know we never discussed politics. politics politics simpler in those days than it is now an angle america's era political american was . the world has become a lot more complicated there are many more states if you look at the u.s. and other states countries have a growing need to retreat and focus on their own interests. there are signs of dissolution in catalonia the basque country and scotland. one consequence of globalization is that a number of regions are seeking autonomy brussels is too far away washington is too far away that they would rather be self-governing and of course that makes things harder. i'm going to call is seen as the world's most powerful woman something she doesn't like to hear. but that's how she's seen it and there's some
truth to it. even so there is little she can do to rein in donald trump and. how much room to maneuver does she actually have a point. there are two aspects to want you said the u.s. is in so far problematic because of the sanctions it's always imposing like specifically in order to force states to do things they don't want to do that's their expressed goal the science does is. basically yes and they can get away with it because the u.s. market is important for german and international companies and the u.s. can isolate anyone who doesn't do what it wants put in it is different we should be spending more time talking to him but the americans are in the way blocking talks. asians and any opportunities to get along with him even though good american politicians i know and others who have
a sound reputation agree that keeping channels of communication open is the only way forward. and europe is weak why. open europe is weak because europe can't agree on a common foreign and defense policy i've long been of the opinion that it boils down to germany and france. and germany and france need to take charge and they need to lead europe. and there's never been a union within a larger region without hegemonic partners and germany and france need to assume hegemonic status and step up as the leading powers in europe. make until france has understood the opportunity it has together with germany europe won't make any progress if you open one. but the opposite of this is happening it feels as though europe is winding down in britain is exiting eastern european countries are saying sure we'll take the money but we don't want any
responsibilities italians are saying there should be a parallel currency that allows them to get out of debt or can the e.u. as we know it be salvaged so. no one understands what italy is on about let's wait and see. eastern europe is saying it wants to be heard. in this respect the u.s. is playing an unfortunate role because it went out of its way to convince these countries to be terrified of russia and it played a not inconsiderable role in the ukraine problem. we need to talk very clearly about u.s. interests and european interests. and their conflicting interests that's just how it is the. refugees are not arriving on american soil in a denny's whereas they're here on our doorstep. we need to talk honestly about these issues but in my opinion germany and france are not speaking with one voice and they're failing to get the twenty seven states to speak with one voice continue
your going to this video but many countries struggle to speak with one voice because it takes so long to form governments not just here and also italy and in other countries too what does this mean for european democracies that. i would say that liberal democracies not just in europe but in australia new zealand iceland wherever you look have a big problem there are no solid constitutional structures that meet the needs of our new era for example if you bear in mind what happened in the weimar republic it didn't fail because there were too few democrats in germany that's what's often said and it's utter nonsense in one thousand twenty eight hitler had five three percent of the vote support then grew during the economic crisis when there was a sort of civil war raging in germany there was no stable government we have to see if our system for electing and forming
a government is sufficiently stable to weather the turbulent times ahead and they will be turbulent very turbulent. democracies are becoming weaker or they don't have to become weaker they could just be organized differently if it weren't for the constructive vote of no confidence and the five percent hurdle which italy doesn't have then we too would have had fifteen governments in twenty years like the italians. democracies are becoming weaker europe's becoming weaker at the same time social democracy is in disarray what's the reason in your opinion. it's an international problem and i'd say the main reason is to do with some of the problems that affect us all a growing inequality the need for a more just distribution of wealth that's very hard to achieve in a liberal democracy and no one has yet managed to find a way that works here in germany we do quite well when it comes to income disparity
where we are among the best performing countries in the world but we still have a problem when it comes to wealth inequality where we have problems deriving from earlier crises high inflation after the first world war and the devastation of the second world war we still haven't got to grips with the consequences of these crises that's a problem we're always hearing these days about large inheritances but many people don't have one and that's something we need to think about. it. seasoned if you've been a member of the social democrats the s.p.d. for over sixty years in the last federal election its support fell to a record low of twenty point five percent and surveys show that right now it's at seventeen percent is the party now once again in a coalition with miracle shrinking. it's not because of the coalition it has to do with the lineup picture shows and clearly have made a cardinal era with martin schulz he was incapable of leading a party leading the s.p.d.
incapable of thinking through political decisions he's a nice guy but he's not a good politician he should never have been made leader but it's good to see one idea to revive the party's fortunes is to form a collective leftwing movement made up of the s.p.d. the greens and the left party politicians such as rudolph trust or from the s.p.d. are starting to agree with saying the time has come for a new type of left wing what do you think. i think something like that is possible but i think we need to guard against the possibility that radicals determine the direction which is what often happens in these cases in the past whenever social democrats and communists have joined forces it's been the communists who had the upper hand even when they were initially a minority. so we need to make sure that we don't end up led by people whose policies are bad for germany. you know what you don't categorically oppose the idea i don't think it's great but i think it is possible
that it will happen. you're overly brown also referred to a left of center majority. by him that's not the difference exactly. studied in the us we're a manager at ford and you said that the s.p.d. still doesn't understand the demands of a globalised world do you still believe that. just before this go i do have very close allies the world has made competitiveness the most decisive factor in how we behave for example trump has cut corporate taxes we have a higher corporate tax rate in germany so then germany immediately wonders if it needs to follow suit with all the competitive conditions in the world to determine agenda and that's a premise we need to accept that we can't keep saying that there are no inherent factual constraints as the s.p.d. is always saying. of course there are and we need to deal with them constructively
. when the s.p.d. finally acknowledge is the link between competition for the market and freedom which also obliges you to do certain things which you might prefer to do differently and then it will get back on track. and it's pretty truly. i already mentioned that you're close friends with chancellor angela merkel and her husband how come you're so close. we have a similar way of thinking. we're both pragmatists. we're interested in art and music we meet up to go to concerts. or we get along very well on that level. we take a very pragmatic view of the world and. that's what you need to have if you want to do politics if you're going to be in politics then you need to face up to reality and not champion hopes that are bound to be disappointed. and toys and off the had
she also accompanied you when your father was honored yeah yeah i was that's right . when you had version recognized my father's efforts to save jews during the holocaust and america and her husband were there and that moved me very deeply. whereas my friends from the s.p.d. were not there. at the time she was part of the opposition that was two thousand and three. and then there was a very nice celebration at the bon her house my grandparents' house in berlin and. if. your father was executed by the nazi regime when you were sixteen i was able to pass on to you any important meaningful life lesson from this. to stand up for what you believe in and not be afraid when others disagree that's what he taught me for no not even mr fountain not in i'll give you three sentences which i'd like you to
completely reopen it i won't stop sitting uncomfortable truths because stating uncomfortable truths and being an outsider is the only way to be creative. to be will survive because. because ultimately these days there are more social democratic questions than answers the answers need to be found or europe will only survive if a person from germany and france together take the lead and don't heed what others say all scots from the nanny thanks for talking to us. global inequalities. what does inequality mean any globally connected well. known to the media. and have. as global media form trying to eighty.