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tv   Conflict Zone - Guest Martin Schulz  Deutsche Welle  November 22, 2018 7:30am-8:01am CET

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just in the everyone. says they have to fish. digital africa starts december twelfth w. . whatever happened to martin shultz the former leader of germany's social democrats who challenge the angle of merkel last year for the chancery and failed spectacularly well he's my guest this week here in berlin why did his campaign fail and how does he react to criticism of his time as president of the european parliament. but introverts welcome to conflict zone thank you are much looking back on your
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campaign to become chancellor you admitted that you had made stupid mistakes you said and miscalculations but the biggest problem was trust wasn't it you broke the promises why. and you make a brain i think it was not a lack of trust it was. very specific atmosphere i'm going to america tried successfully to escape from what we need in the lectern compete open confrontation the competition of arguments for the best solutions and was a very promising not to enter grand coalition with angela merkel the conservative that was after the campaign yes you smoke into your question conserve the campaign in the mistakes made in the campaign after the compay i personally. promised not to draw in the government of the leadership of our going to back of the troops but i did it on behalf of the whole party as the leader of the party and it was
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a hollywood it was a broken problem or less wasn't it then the party of change the opinion change the strategy and i was in that i was in the very difficult situation that the party as a whole join the government above the leader of the party not to do in the government because of that promise i mis. understood their message of the members of my party that they insist that the leader of the party should not draw in the government like you are the oldest ever to serve in the merkel lead cap i found that is i found this. very contradictionary but at the end yes i promise that and then you have the promise after i saw that i couldn't keep the promise that the. the overwhelming majority of members of my parliament insisted to do it i result so you can stick to promises you couldn't stick to decisions you'd made that's a hard label to where isn't it you're going to political scientists minds
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university said this endless vacillation was schultz's i'm doing he's right isn't it i don't cover members of comments but. the situation was not as easy as mr volcker tries to describe it or is a party leader saying because the whole party of the holy the ship unanimously say we don't draw on the government with america then the leader in system is already criticised to keeping that line i kept aligned with a unanimous vote and then all the other people of the leadership of my party changed the strategy joined the government and asked me not to do the same thing so you can lead the party you know know what i'm doing yourself for breaking the promise i blame myself the miscalculation he spoke about was that i've misunderstood and this is my mistake. that normally it is think about that the party changed with good arguments
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a strategy and is asking the leader of the party not to follow the strategy. ok that was the case and therefore are resigned mr wilder as i think a man who is always commenting but from a point of view very far from the practical experiences political is have to make and it's turned during the campaign you often seem to have conflicting roadmaps you were plagued with doubts you didn't know if you should be the european or shorts the local candidate and then july twenty seventh seeing you said maybe i'm the wrong candidate the people are nice to me but it's out of pity do you accept now that you were wrong can't know this and you are quoting things published in the book or by a journalist who has paid me a million election campaign there are all of you who followed your campaign closely during the election campaign there are strong moments or weaker moments if you have to live twenty four hours around the clock of that pressure from time to time you
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make also observations under that pressure we have nothing to do with the reality this is human. that is you it's you that's me you know expressing who you are you have the time or felt you were carrying a lot of anger don't you think there are for perhaps a moment even in your life that you say if i should continue to interview politicians in conflict zones i don't know there is such of ny thing in life to do why should i continue such moments are in your life for sure also from time to time and polygynous able i wasn't trying to you have to be chancellor in the world and you were. that's the difference letitia's are human beings as all the others in the us what that i don't have the same understand the question what has it to do to becoming chancellor than the very specific moment there is a kind of weakness exhausted in the middle of them i completely tired and then you say such a word and then
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a journalist is publishing and then somebody is asking me in conflict so you are able to become a transfer because you say subs things i disagree i'm going to market has such weak moments for sure also but i tell you how good pressure one tree is no one people are entitled to know how you handle pressure with you lose it when the going gets tough you want if you want machines politicians you should continue to insist on that if you want the politicians are human beings like all the others like their voters then you should follow my line where you are a good loser. you said in a television program after the results that angela merkel had been the biggest loser and she granted scandalous campaign and then afterwards you admitted to your colleagues i guess i came across as a bit of a jerk as a disgruntled if you want to interview me about that book ok we can continue i just know you always occasions that you are quoting observations that you made your quote in the book this is a journalist and let allowed him to come very keen to me i'm going to america to
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run a scandalous complaint and i was very angry in the evening about that campaign she lost nine percent in the polls so this i think the description of reality and i'm not a bad loser are you looking for a comeback into federal politics no i'm not very likely not i'm not looking for a comeback i'm here i don't have to get picked to come back. politics i'm serving as a member of the europe of the german parliament for i have not to come back to you i'm going do you want to do you see while you're interviewing me in conflicts or do you do you why are you interviewing me in conflict why because i want to find out about what you what you thought about your campaign and your time is european so i'm still president i'm serious still interesting from conflict so she won't have to get a dog about as a comeback i've you know but i'm asking about your future intentions where you still see yourself on the federal state spending
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a part in federal politics putting yourself back as a candidate in the future as a candidate no more now committed for what chancellor now that's gone is that i think the. question for the time being is not who will run the s.p.d. for the next election campaign how to in proof the situation of the party this is the biggest question for the time being but you have specific views on the. as everybody is the party listening to you i hope so let's talk if we may about your time as president of the european parliament in the election campaign you accused of committing an attack on democracy that was one of the criticisms you had before but you presided in europe over an institution that was widely criticized for its democratic deficit was and especially by the murdoch press in the united kingdom not just the most of most of the critics coming from
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you came from right wing tendencies of the earth are you said it's not valises a directly elected parliament the only direct elected institution in the european union the european parliament if the european union is not sufficiently democratic i agree but this is not especially the european parliament the other way around this is the only directly elected institution in the european therefore this is completely mons but the elections that brought you to the presidency twice these were decided behind closed doors there was an election but it was decided beforehand who was going to win i had to run in the parliament that i had to to get a majority in the parliament in twenty twenty fourteen want to leave it behind closed doors you know in twenty fourteen you actually cover a president of the parliament you must run in the parliament and you must guide gerry i understand that and you both got the majority of the parliamentarians how can you say this was behind closed doors but it wasn't open election an open vote
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whether by the overwhelming majority but in twenty fourteen you actually point to the post was announced by gabrielle the vice chancellor a full eleven days before the so-called vote was in that he announced that i am your ollie president you know that i'm running as a candidate nothing else but it was standard practice wasn't it for the largest political groups to. alternate between who should have the posts but it was standard practice wasn't it for the largest political groups to alternate between who should have the posts what is anti-democratic in the lot of people for all rika luna check of the green said it was a precooked deal which we just had to rubber stamp in the parliament just had to rubber stamp it in the european parliament eight parliamentarian groups representing more than three hundred different parties out of twenty eight member
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states of the european union to find a majority in the european parliament is not functioning like in the house of commons a labor of the tories you're saying we mustn't just a chap. you must try to build a majority in the only majority possible to build after the election in two thousand and fourteen where neither arriving nor left wing majority was possible or that the two big groups cooperated either way together with the liberals yeah so this was a deal between parliamentarian groups yes and this is a normal thing in all parliaments but what are your influences for the vote. you knew before the vote that you were going to be president of the i think this is about i don't understand your intention members of the european parliament voted in the secret ballot for me with the majority this is democracy i was running i had a candidate against me did you know that you were going to win or you did you
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really didn't do you know before the election the outcome in the mock receive thing you know the outcome after the vote shows a lot of people attacked the european parliament on democratic grounds in the twenty's sixteen in the closing days of your term in office the number of any peace and transparency campaigns criticised the fast tracking of legislation through the parliament because they said key negotiations were increasingly being conducted in the shadows these so-called trial logs leaving far less room for debate and outside scrutiny why why did that happen why did you allow that to happen but watering down of democratic oversight no i disagree once more this is nonsense. alberta alamein a professor in law he said a major transparency black hole code where large concessions are won and lost with very little oversight and without public disclosure wrong it's completely wrong.
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slope watch called it a travesty of democracy they said the opportunity for civilian civil society national parliaments to intervene and make their voices is nonexistent i disagree completely the european parliament is a very transparent parliament the debate about the trial logs i agree with those who criticize the dialogues as a president of the european parliament i tried to open dialogues more for public by the way not all trial logs are secret there is a part of the eyelids open another part is secret i tried as a present of the european parliament in the so-called in the institutional agreement with the council and the commission to open that to make it more visible more audible for the public it failed because the member states governments refused so to criticize for this the european parliament is completely wrong but if the european institutions transparent why should the public trust who is and transparent the commission governor ring in the secret way so like all the
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governments in the european union secondly the council of the european union the most powerful institution the council of seven states in government is gathering secretly the only institution gathering openly in the committees and in the plenary is the european parliament therefore that critic is wrong and it kept on losing trust because. fewer can't you blame their democratic institution which is a blight obliged in the frame of the in the institutional relations of the european union to cooperate with institutions who are secret and then you come to reste make responsible the only open and transparent institution to be as the others not sufficiently open and transparent this is unfair and this unfairness i disagree entirely this is unfair which is concerning the yeah i think wonderful
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work of the overwhelming majority of members of the european i understand in full transparency i understand that so why do fewer and fewer people bother to vote in the e.u. parliamentary elections until this is a total of fourteen was the lowest ever there is one thousand that not in my country in my country in germany we don't agree for all overall minor point six percent in my country we increased the turnout. enormously in the last european election less and less across europe across here but europe is not a unique one piece it is twenty eight governments and so to me the question why the term out in the united kingdom was so low meanwhile in germany it was much whining about the averages kept on going down since the election started if the european union would be a state and the members federal states in the union in the federal severance state i would agree with you but the european union is the union of someone states with very heterogeneous and specific national circumstances twenty four for your car
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make an average in europe twenty four years ago a compartment itself criticized seventeen point eight million euros was spent advertising the elections and you got down to the lowest level of participation across not in my country not in my country in some countries did turn out in greece in other countries though one of the criticisms leveled at you was so. i but never by but by you are dropping out of the next question a very interesting question that's the key the moment an eye on it well you are right we've got a lot to get through so we can just move on and talk about is the i'm a very superficial interview well you are only you are raising in conflict zones such important questions and giving them no chance to answer in a very mr show something you sixteen minutes on the ranch said a lot of questions but i really want to get through quite a bit more about iran and in the time that we had i think the interview the character of the interview was conflict zone and conflict really means not you are
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raising provoking questions and i come if provoking answers you're very welcome to give what answers you like but i'd like to talk about the breaches of the code of conduct for any piece especially when it came to transparency over any piece and second job why did you appear disinterested in following up on these breaches of the code of conduct i didn't be interest you were interested in following up on. as a present of the european parliament and also as a group leader yes very interested and i followed a lot of cases for example as the cases of i think it was the sunday times or the u.k. . newspaper who made the thing lot of cash and i excluded one of the members of my group immediately from my groove and my. learned about spent giggled who went on to become parliament's special rapporteur on transparency
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accountability integrity he said that in twenty six being wherever the special committee that was set up to look at these breaches found evidence of a breach it reported to you because you were empowered to act only you didn't know that. concrete cases should raise the sarong general tufnell former chair of that committee also said in twenty forty that you never followed up on complaints not a single one of these cases has had any conclusion he said any consequences and that is the end result of the tougher rules adopted by the european parliament i think we haven't done parliament or the citizens or european democracy any favors it is wrong they reported mr have have no came personally to me i remember and we agreed about a lot of different cases mr giggles never from the way to my office but always everybody to his website with allegations against me personally i
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took it very serious in the bureau of the european parliament to a lot of measures but at this point two members of the. who consider themselves to be the opposition against the ruling majority their form lots of some very valid criticisms are invalid i think i think of that a lot to increase transfer of transparency and the european problem where there was a lot of controversy on another major gap wasn't the so-called general expenditure allowance that any piece received for office expenditure rentals phone bills things like that each m.p. m.e.p. gets four thousand three hundred forty two euros a month i think it is with with no questions asked and no accountability why this is a general in covering the costs of members of parliament in their constituencies for phones for newspapers for books for this is forty million euros a year of european taxpayers' money and no controls no receipts no financial spot
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checks no or did nothing the question of trust yes and i trust the members of the european public. and they said you didn't we have the same we have the same thing we have to have the same rule here in the european in the in the german parliament you get a general of loans to cover your costs and this is to say the same in the european parliament and the parliamentarian like mr gold for example mr half an hour woman over who is you know nobody checks let me check fourteen million euros of european taxpayers' money just handed out with no controls no receipts no award nothing there's no general that this is a general loans if the majority of the european parliament is of the opinion that this is appropriated. we calculated by the way that seven hundred fifty members twelve times the year four thousand euros to justify the administration of the european parliament costs more money for civil servants controlling them to save their money. it's more it's
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a land that is supposed to comfort people who want it they're going to don't see any controls the control is more expensive than the trust and once more your presumption the presumption of those people who criticize it that this members of the parliament who get that general and loans don't spend the money for the things foreseen for the loans and i trust the members this is the difference between mr gold your own office expenses raised eyebrows i mean in april twenty fifteen the review of the parliament's finances noted with concern that the large number of staff based in the office of the president of the european thirty five people including two drivers the person was highly questionable it said they warned that it set a bad example for cost reduction and fiscal responsibility with in parliament. when you accept that no you could have cut your expenses no one of my office was in my office or smaller than the office of my predecessor does that matter fallon
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president of ukraine bottom of the president of institution he is the president of eight thousand civil servants working for the parliament seven hundred fifty members who come make this with two three. two three visors and i was not surprised it was in the middle of a very you took no notice of the criticism you didn't cut your stuff in levels you didn't get rid of the actual you didn't get rid of the two top range b.m.w. . i found that this was appropriated at the time that i wanted today and i think my successor have the same stuff and it is appropriate that to. manage such a big institution you need stuff. this was a political decision by a hostile by a hostile committee the parliament warned that a quarter of voters had a very negative image of the parliament due to spending so. and you didn't think
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you could set an example that's why i disagree this is to run such an institution you need support. i acted in the frame of. a structure i earned from my previous i was not the man who invented that structure i wasn't you benefited from it yes i benefited from and i was not some rod of cut back but you didn't and i was not surprised that there's the first president who tried. to transform this only representative post in the political post i earned a lot of hostility by political opponents and that they focussed suddenly with their criticism on a structural question instead of political content question i was not surprised and therefore i repeat i would have preferred to deal to discuss with my own ponens about political items. because the structure of the run is
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a traffic and still talk about extravagance why i was the first one who was criticised by all this pre-decimal never criticised for it this was because i was a political figure and people and trying to make the european parliament more influential more powerful and then you earn also such a tax i didn't invent it i earned the then by the way my predecessor had more people in the stuff than me i would use that when i started in two thousand and twelve i reduce the size of my stop the shows a year never never by the way never these people took note of that the decision i reduced the members of my staff in relation to my predecessors which should say year ago you advocated a united states of europe a new constitution for europe you said any country that didn't adopt it should have to leave the european union by this draconian stance who wants who wants a united states of europe these days me for example i want the us adjusted because
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i think many others really today in the united kingdom for sure not in other countries yes i think the united states of italy poland hungary czech republic croatia and other islands you think they want. and right wing governments in europe are against deepening integration in the european union is not the news this is the case and i'm sure proud not to share the view of mr our bottom as a country but if we want to run in future times the european union and the idea of democracy against people like mr trump xi jinping obvious to put it we have to deepen european integration and not to redevelop the european union the kind of lose assembly of national states and this is my deep conviction and that's behind that idea of the united states of europe which will not be like the united states of america united kingdom or leaving the european union ok but france and germany
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have to deepen their cooperation i think it'll ever happen i've been deeply convinced that this is the right way to go. martin shields thanks very much for being with some thank you thank you for. the book. the book. glib. the both. the book.
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