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tv   Interview - Gerald Knaus There is no right to migrate.  Deutsche Welle  December 9, 2018 1:15pm-1:31pm CET

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and mike from school the game out of contention with the head off to fifty two minutes of victory was freiburg first weighed in by factures i it was a good avenue is live from berlin more of the top of the hour. piers what's coming up for what the book is playing you'll have plenty to talk about here on. the monitors league every weekend here on. her first day at school in the jungle. first including listen.
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then doris granger moment arrives. join the ring to take on her journey to freedom. in our interactive documentary. the world to bring you tame returns home. dot com tang's. integration and migration had already played key roles in his family before he was born his ukrainian grandmother was killed by the red army in the postwar turmoil his orphaned mother made her way first to switzerland and then to austria where get all it can also grew up today will be talking with this expert on migration about his efforts for refugees and immigrants and about the un migration pact mr connotes and summer twenty fifteen chancellor merkel let tens of thousands. the refugees
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into the country. within a year nearly a million refugees and asylum seekers were in germany. do you think that was right up to chance our. school for. politics the question at any given moment is always what are the alternatives after many years of war in syria we had the worst refugee disaster on earth in turkey a neighbor of the e.u. . there were more refugees there than anywhere else and in twenty fourteen they started coming to greece and then through the balkans to germany. we could have responded earlier we should have offered turkey more assistance. but in twenty fifteen once the people were on the move the only question left was by what methods could we control and channel these people in keeping with our values and. in september twenty fifteen the chancellor said two very important things. one that
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germany would have nothing to do with treating them so badly that they wouldn't want to come to germany as many countries like hungry had done and two that we couldn't unload the problem on greece we needed a partner and agreements with greece and turkey that took a few months but it ended up as a policy that saved europe and solve. these another chance or a humanitarian gesture as badly damaged her part of the c.d.u. and the c.s.u. as well politically as well as only made the right wing party here in germany the a.f.d. very very strong. that wouldn't surprise you because in your country austria one of these right wing parties that exist all over europe is actually part of the government and agitating against migrants. not only in austria the amazing thing when we look at recent years in europe. the right wing
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parties are often strongest where no refugees ever went. there are no asylum seekers in hungary or poland last year to be exact there were one hundred sixty to one hundred sixty five in hungary even so politics are made there by stirring up fears of an alleged mass invasion. compared to the right wing populists in many neighboring countries germany's a.f.d. is still relatively weak as you said there is in austria government but they already had been before. and le pen is not a new phenomenon in france the problem is when the mainstream parties go along with and open themselves to coalitions with the enemies of europe. not long ago in vienna the f.b.i. wanted to suspend the human rights convention and put austria e.u. membership up for discussion. when a party closer to the center opens up to a coalition with them the whole country and its politics shift in that direction.
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unfortunately but you know at the start i mention your mother because of her experiences at the end of the second world war her heart always went out to refugee of sorts as have how was it for you how did your interest to develop. well for one the opening of the iron curtain was very important i was a student when the berlin wall fell suddenly vienna was no longer near a deadly war that divided europe but in the midst of a continent that was opening up and. that experience was great cause for optimism. but another was the experience of whole populations being displaced in the wake of the balkan wars. could start off i lived in the balkans for many years in bulgaria and four years in bosnia. and i saw how the flames of hatred were found for many years with nationalist sentiments until it led to this enormous explosion of violence and genocide. in the midst of europe just
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a few years after so many hopes were born from the curtains collapse millions were driven from their homes first in bosnia then in concert this experience also affected me but i worked in bosnia for many years trying to relieve the effects of that war and make it possible for people to return to their homes that was a defining experience. that's why. there are more than a few people in europe who don't want any migrants at all do you have any understanding for this one or two. i think it is scientific question is what kind of the first let's talk about conventional migration that countries can and should regulate for themselves. if there is no right to migration we often speak of irregular migration and come back to refugee of this is about a basic principle with its roots in the second world war and the experience of the jews who try to flee germany and austria to switzerland for example and were sent
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back often to certain death. so after the second world the principle was introduced that nobody should be placed in danger without due process that is an asylum procedure. for. this principle is set out in the one nine hundred fifty one refugee convention from geneva in this principle must be upheld. i understand why people say we have to police the borders and reduce the regular migration the challenge is to do so in combination with respect for the humanitarian obligation not to send people back into danger and i believe that is possible. now instead of talking about refugees and asylum seekers let's move on to discuss migrants in the united nations as a result of the global campground orderly and regular migration or approval in america in the coming days. what can this compound do.
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well the surprising thing is this compact will change nothing about the battle and little about the good. it's about worldwide acceptance the basic principles of migrants have human dignity and should be treated accordingly that's long been the case in germany and europe what's also important and constantly repeated is that it's also about reducing regular migration to compact recognizes that partners to do that it says both countries of origin and destination like germany have to cooperate but the compact is non-binding like the specific form this cooperation takes has yet to be determined and that's where the real challenge is. but also for the impact. i've read this come back to all the way through in the past days. and i was surprised to see that it's actually a kind of all round care free package for migrant. for example immigration is
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supposed to be made easier by relaxing criteria for issuing visas to us but won't that result in making europe even more attractive to migrants diked. that's the reason for living a visa requirements over the past ten years has turned out surprisingly well for europe first for poland and then in the early one nine hundred ninety s. for all of central eastern europe. it resulted in very few problems and there's no longer any debate over it. but most countries of the world still require visas and it's solely up to each country to decide whether to change that you it's up to all of them together the compact doesn't change that. it's. a large degree this is about signals. isn't it sending the signal to the people of the african. everyone come to europe it's easy. even
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the compact title specifies regulating migration and reducing irregular migration the question is how do we achieve that in particular in october of this year over eleven thousand people came to spain from morocco by boat if we're going to reduce those numbers we need cooperation from morocco and from the countries of origin unless individuals need protection we have to be able to send them back to their own countries because we don't want irregular migration is specially not this dangerous migration across the sea. to reduce that is completely legitimate but if we're going to send people back to nigeria or the ivory coast of senegal from spain france italy or germany well need the cooperation of those countries that have to issue the papers and help us out with that have to have an interest in doing so we could say we'll make it easier for students to study in germany will facilitate the
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visa process if in return these countries help asked by taking back their citizens who came to europe irregularly everyone benefits these matters are negotiated nobody's compelled the migration compact doesn't create any new obligations it only observes that we won't make any progress here without partnership. or that our politicians always say here the others have to do more so let's consider the others from what hungary jackie o. and slovakia all say they won't sign the contract won't that automatically result in other western european countries such as germany once again shouldering the principal burden of migration. that is to get through all this is already the case . take you sample of hungary. people are treated so badly that since they're in the e.u. they move on to germany. remember that in september twenty fifth dean viktor orban had the refugees in hungary past it. the austrian border. the twenty
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thousand who arrived in munich the first weekend of being in hungary. this game is still going on that. acknowledges mr cannot always wind up that you know you interview with three unfinished sentences i start a sentence and ask you to complete it. more immigration is good for europe because . i'm not sure if immigration is orderly then it's good for europe but we need the support of the population. to give it dangerous attempts by africans to cross the mediterranean to europe could be stopped if. if we could send those who come to us and don't need protection back to their countries of origin swiftly and in the interests of those countries they wouldn't attempt the journey. back to refugees now being drafted is not the migration compact the future compact
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should consider that. already signed very very many agreements but the challenge is not to lay down more standards but to implement the ones we already have. as it says. many thanks. thank you. be in good shape. germs. thank god for disinfectant. good time can prevent serious things. like sensitive hygiene can cause problems. hygiene is important in everyday life but don't overdo it count jim free food on ice cream being. in good shape next on t w.
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natural riches. precious resources. and a rewarding investment. of farmland has been called ethiopia's green gold. the country has an abundant supply and leases it to international ever for giants the government has a dry export revenues and the corporations high profit margins but not everyone benefits from the booming business. when i saw the bulldozers clearing the land i was devastated you can get with how could they bulldoze the land without my permission they knew it belonged to me. expropriations environmental destruction starvation. the price for government
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and corporate crime. the snowing out of a country. that don't use fear no hyenas. starts december twenty ninth on d w. welcome to in good shape coming up losing weight the vigen way does it work and is it safe. poly neuropathy how do sensory disorders happen and what can be done to stop them and hygiene how clean do things really have to be here's your host dr costly go tout happy birthday chilly here you have the girls day to here soon.


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