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tv   DW News  Deutsche Welle  August 23, 2019 10:00am-10:30am CEST

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to give them the freedom ok to 2 countries to use 2 systems one country one of the systems is clearly totalitarian the one in beijing hong kong has been frayed to this point bernard you say hong kong is on its way to becoming a police state. at least the police have played a role in the last couple of weeks that i think has surprised a lot of hong kong is because in hong kong there was a lot of trust in institutions and the police and the police violence that we've seen and that hasn't been independently. researched is something that has shocked. hong kong and is really at the heart of this conflict which for hunk owners and knows better than we all do is a conflict about what is our city going to be like in the future is it going to be just any chinese city or is it going to remain. a different system ok let's one of
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our viewers that it's 2047 right that reverts to complete chinese rule so there's this window of opportunity there a cherry as a hong konger how is this city different from the rest of china. in that race in hong kong. people from there we always say. at. almost the same standard as how the us of woe is seeing it we also know people from china with friends from mainland china when we talk about this because we know that we have a difference when we look at freedom for example we always have a relatively high freedom of speech freedom of media we can get access to facebook and twitter and the internet without any restrictions which is very different from the mainland china ok there's also the court system as well hong kong has been so successful because it has an independent courses then there is the rule of law that is also
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a main difference along with freedom of expression isn't it yeah exactly in hong kong we always trust such a system and we know that is independent from and ministration we know that we have always trust that the government would not interfere a city in 2 and a process all and each of the show ok so it's a long way from where we are today to a police state that so many people fear how one of the problems that protesters have been pointing to is the extradition law that the citizens of hong kong if they are charged with a crime would disappear to mainland china basically what's behind these fears of being extradited to mainland china why is that so terrifying for hong kong people are the reason is pretty clear because home and city are good by law but the mainland china is not the case there for some accused in hong kong the if the. if they go to to mainland china their fear is not very transparency proceeds in the
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courts that's the main reason for the hope purchase brooke now this bill is dead says carrie the c.e.o. of the country but it's just the beginning of the protests because the finally the months it's democracy is the real meaning like we understand here in west. what do you think what are the chances that this real democracy is how put it as we know in the west can be protected by carrie lam the current leader of the city of i'll go. i don't think promoting democracy is the job that kerry has been given by the beijing government the basic law said that potentially hong kong could have free elections it's not very definite this it's a it's unclear you know but that is what hong kong people have been hoping for the longest time that at one point there will be full democracy and beijing has made it
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very clear in the last couple of years that that is not going to happen and it's carried. through to no squash these protests some piece more taking says it could have but he says it should be causing the basic law is that if gradually it would have been well put tension is so we believe that in the end it would happen and we're looking forward to this ok cerium you also pointed to earlier social media that's very much part of china's propaganda warfare aimed at not only the people inside all gone but the mainland chinese as well it shows that beijing really wants to get control of this process the protest process quickly as possible is there a fear in beijing in how this question would apply the use well that that the protests will will leave hong kong and moves other parts of the country that we could see protests elsewhere in china as a result yeah. i think the propaganda war by china itself very often enough a
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successful in hong kong and itself very successful in the international media as well because hong kong people have been very used to this kind of propaganda. statements and people mainly use it mainly see it as a joke more than believing what they are saying yes so and also hong kong people really trying to be they are really trying to get international attention and a lot of protests all going ice in other countries as you said but could the social media propaganda. another propaganda lead to protests that will move to other parts of china or do you think that's that's a situation that's to be excluded that these protests are not transferable to the we gars for example the minority muslims oh i don't think they're going to move somewhere and chinese cities because it's not going to work because the home call is to a free city you may go to street and demonstration but in china the simple ways we
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don't know exactly what happened happened really happened in mainland china we don't know what exactly happened why it happens and the police have a very strong hand and they would make you disappear for long periods and that's very risky for all the parties but they're ok we're going to focus more now on the propaganda war being waged on numerous fronts a by beijing those fronts include global social media platforms state run media from entertainment to films to internet news sites and of course to state run t.v. as well. this is how the chinese state media are presenting the situation in hong kong as a city in chaos with mass protesters prepared for violence. who may accuse of being bandits and terrorists. this is the chinese government's take on the temporary occupation of hong kong airport today we express our
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strongest condemnation of this new terrorist act and express our deepest condolences to the injured mainland compatriots and hong kong police. the newspapers are also full of images of violence this propaganda seems to be plausible for some citizens who didn't think i think that it's ok to take to the streets and protest in a normal way but you shouldn't destroy public order and carry out violent acts only terrorists do that kind of thing. state media have also been showing these images of troop exercises in syngenta on the border with hong kong. but will china really resort to arms to crush the resistance in hong kong. what do you think about chinese a propaganda aimed at hong kong and the rest of china how effective is that different isn't it we heard from cherry that's not very effective in hong kong what
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about on mainland china to people by all that. that's the big question i think the interesting thing and you pointed to that is that. in hong kong it doesn't work and it doesn't work although there's been more than 20 years of strong propaganda strong propaganda in schools and it didn't work and i think this demonstration came as a surprise to beijing because ageing thought we have this covered it so the big question in mainland china is do people believe all the propaganda yes in a way they do it's what they're fed with but it doesn't mean that they are happy with the system that they're happy with their own lives and that there's not a lot of undercurrents of dissatisfaction that could blow up nobody had a protest like in hong kong on their books and the big question for beijing is how is it conked going to control its own population ok. what do you think what it
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is china not getting right about why is the propaganda not succeeding there is it simply that hong kong people have access to western media is that what's going on there there is no saying china's which is very good is like a metaphor for this reason because the asian chinese win intellectually writing from upstairs to downstairs when they're reading books always move why home call i see it i regard hong kong part of bristol there right from left to the right hand side is overseas no i just think in beijing they don't get tied into the body's response and how we read that's exactly that they know everything what the party in the states say it's too and they didn't have the 2nd sort of independent source because of censorship that's the reason and i don't see. chinese the states run media is going to have the control they might have a conscious of the public opinion within the mainland china but what they want it's have an international opinion
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a china friendly international piano what they're trying to a lot over the the facebook and twitter ok. what do you think of propaganda is not going to work what are the options for beijing to get hong kong in line. to answer all that the month of hong kong people 1st of all this is i think in every mind of this and they know very well what they want and what they're fighting for and they're not going to stop until they get that the months i'm set and also there's one thing about. a public opinion is in china maybe chinese government think that they could control the public opinion but the fact is that chinese people are they are so afraid to speak out that it's never we are never able to get what they're really thinking because they cannot speak on social media they cannot speak on camera so maybe they're really thinking like hong kong people just that they can speak out maybe they want the same freedoms but we simply don't know that well the chinese communist party's track record on respecting human rights is of
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course dismal the occupation of tibet destruction of its culture the internment of over a 1000000 muslims of course as well and the bloody suppression of the democracy movement at tienanmen square in 1989 now this was the central point of. efforts to crush the human rights movement 30 years ago and it was a savage reality when tanks literally rolled over young pressers protesters in the square of heavily peaceful we all remember that in tiananmen square young men and women who had the audacity just like the courageous citizens of hong kong today to call for their voices to be heard to demand that their voices matter just as much as the highest functionary of the communist party and that all people must be
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equal before the law that will is what it was all about back then it is now and the question is those voice those voices 30 years ago they were drowned out in blood we haven't heard them since then not in the way that we're hearing them now at least in hong kong. it's a big question i know but after looking at the images of tiananmen square from 30 years ago bernard if we could start with you should we be concerned about the possibility of another tiananmen square in hong kong i think we should be concerned but i don't think it's very likely tenement is still a trauma for the chinese communist party. beijing knows that it would be drastic if the p.l.o. a the people's liberation army actually went into hong kong and i don't think it's necessary nowadays because the party has different means of putting people
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under pressure it has all the technical means it has the companies that are being put under a lot of pressure now cathay pacific and many others so i don't see a big likelihood at the same time i don't see a very good outcome for the hong kong people it's going to be a very unhappy ending i'm very unhappy ending ok what do you think that means gerry what would be a very unhappy ending have you slewed it has been no it has the possibility of another gentleman square i think hong kong people they're very well aware that china is trying to scare hong kong people with violence and a possibility of sending me i think many of them just try to ignore the fact or even if they know about this they would think that they have nothing to do with if it ends up like this they would they would take other action but that for now they only came out is to have onsets from the government what do you think oh i don't i don't think this. happened again with china sort of years ago is was complete
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different from the china today because china always says it's now a responsible big nation the international word and they're going to use force because in the international conflict china always says we want peaceful means to solve the problem they can be that china says when i have a problem my home backyard i'll just make my soldier suit or to give it clears i just know probably more. than the boy and not the them and is china's going to celebrate 60 years of funding of the people's republic china beginning of october. that's coming up yeah i don't believe they're going to be have a very very bad image in the international press when the pier is marching to hong kong ok so china plays a very long game though the communist party in beijing. if we look at the past if we look at what's happened in tibet what happened in tiananmen square the
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internment of the weak corps i mean beijing is not adverse to reverting to force at the end of the day it could and would because hong kong has nothing legal framework this is a part of it not a system the legal framework assess the peary could be sent to hong kong if the c.e.o. of the leader of hong kong officially a speeching to do that about of not sink kerry lamas a leader of the city is going to do that ok well how is the west responded there's been a mixed response french and german leaders have called for dialogue about the situation the u.s. congress has condemned china's heavy and police response president trump has called on the chinese president to exercise restraint. but like to see hong kong work out at a very humanitarian fashion i hope prisoner g. can do it he sure has the ability i could tell you from personal logie certainly has the ability to do it if he wants to so i'd like to see that worked out in the
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humanitarian fashion i think it would be very good for the trade deal that we're talking about. jerry i believe it's only donald trump has responded to this in terms of a high level world of politician is the u.s. the only country that can bring pressure to bear on beijing i think home people are trying to. the international community not. only the u.s. but also the. need to put pressure on china but they're also very well aware that only if it's only what it would like. even if. it's condemning china if there are no other action for example economic sanctions all. that was for them mean anything ok what do you say. expressing concerns kind of pressure and china has to sears taking to consider. sanctions not the way out
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single we are which would be that beijing hong kong they going to negotiate in the framework of one country 2 systems about the way the timetable at least how the democracy democracy could be implemented in hong kong like directly like a general election ok i don't know what i'm listening to terry though that's already been decided this 2047 when china resumes control of hong kong until then the chinese people or the people of hong kong rather want democracy the way i'm hearing you is that gerry that's non-negotiable yeah because for us we believe what we're trying to ease the extension of fun country to a system we don't want to believe that by. it will become just and not the city of china we want to have an extension we want to have that for africa ok the 2 system for.

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