thht is coming tomorrow. goodbyy. ♪ >> still coming acrosby the hundreds and thousands. john: iilegal immigrati is down, but people still sneak and plexuses a pretty good-sized told. i am dissing this. it does not matter how high offenses. john: we need to seal our borders. >>od our borders, protecting the homeland. >> illegals steal america jobs.. john: if immigrants are such up problem what icanada's immigrion by billboards in america. >> wwill take it. >> the fight of themerican dream. that isur show tonight. ♪
>> and now john stossel. john: my parents were born in germany and could not findork in europe,,so ttey came here t america, people around the world america is the dream. as a libertarian i say, let people come, let the man. there should be free trade and labor as well asoods and services because that leaves eryooe more free and rich. except how c you let everyone and if some of them want to murder arrest? and since america is a welfare state, someone to coe here. america's answer has been, well, we will let some people in legally, but we shod seal the border to keep undesirables out. we recently spent billions to put up the giants' offense on the mexican border. how is that working out? special corporation -- special correspondent just went to the uthern border with califnia assemblyman. a former member of the minutemen
, one of the volunteer grououps that started their own border patrol's to try to help stop illegal immigration. >> caught between two governments. so many politicians pontificate. john: the border fence to not coverhe old border. >> as srt smuggler is not going to gto where the security is. he will take the weak spo john: lots of weak spots like this and guarded tunnel that led him what to mexico. >> youre in mexico now. you'r're in violation. john: even where there was fans, people vetiver. they bring ladders like this one we found lying right next to the fans', they cut holes in the fence. this one has been passed, but it does not matter how high fces if you can cut holes in it. jo:any illeg are caught
sneaking through, they are sen back to mexico, many media the sneaback to ameri. it is where the jobs are, this man says. >> ne, two, three, four, five times. john: four years later, fewer cross illegally because the mexican economy h done better. we buildger, stronger fences. john: as the border patrol now we are here? >> oh, yes. john: hou later they showed up. >> filming a segment. i intend donald -- n donnelly. john: after that t left them alone. once more fences. >> is this your ideal fans? >> this is gd. it forces people who want to smuggle somethin to go to a high point where law-enforcement border patrol agents can eily see they have been interdicted. we oug to secure it. john: a problem with the current fans. >> here is this biggeffective
miti dance. impervious, scalable. then all the sudde it just hands. this right he is absurd. >> despite the billions we have spent, there are still lots o balls in the fence especially the older part. >> this looks like a ptty good-sized already your. >> this is an area thate have volunteers who came down with a welding track and well that up these holes. i mean, it is patchwork. >> i'm touching mexico. john: not that hard to get over the fence. drug dealers build ramps. this car happens to get stuck. nnedy found it was pretty easy to climb theence. >> you could totally getver this. john: in fac there were >> pnty. >> easiir to cross from the other side.
jjhn thank you for goi there and clearly there are problems with both sounds. but proponents of the wal say, hey, this deters people. this keeps a lot of people out. >> not really because there are only 33 percent of the border th isctually protected by some kind of fencing. as you saw, john: spect at downtown every 2,000 miles in theexican border. >> just southern border. john: the other part is harder to get to, mouainous. >> it is mountainous, boris. there were holes all ovethe part of the fence that we saw. arizona, texas, you're goingo see the same thing. it is the -- chain is only as rong as its weakest link. the chain is only effective as pistol. john: this is the age of cool, amazing technology. i would think with drone the cameras, presint bush found it a virtual fans. >> he did promise a virtual
fans, but it was costl still requires a lot of bder patrol manpower. john: they give up o it. >> they did. it was costing billions of dollars. the g, a general accountg office issd several skating reports about the virtual fs because it was a boondoggle, too expensive and it was enough time to wor and still require just as much if not more manpower. john: they could spend more, but most of the people who sneak in the country now, 40%. >> forty to 50%. forty to 50 percent o the people like him intohis country and stayed illegally are heren student visas. john: illegal visas and then just she was there already in the country. >> they hang out and stay past their visa stamp de. john: all wall does not solve the problem. thank you. currently congress is worng on an immigration reform bill. many peopl are oistic that there will come up and it , but an agreement and an eier path to citizenship.
i, fornep the do. many cservatives a nervous. for years theyanted more done about thhttream of people crossing the border. >>e cannot shut that off unless we build a fence and wall. i want to put all wall in.ned o. >> a little bit of wire on top to provide. put a letter there. @% can also electfy thi wire. the kind of current that would not kill somebody the simply be a discouraging for them to be fooling around. livestock all the time. john: immigration problem sho prove, he says. >> you can take it back now. if somow they got their economy working and got their laws worng and in mexicoe could pull thisack and just as easily aseported in. john: former presidential candidate in colorado congressman,ore security and wants other msures to deter illegal immigraon. congressman, thank you for joining espito would you do? we showed thholes in the wall..3
that does not look likehe answer to me. >> it i't. and the reporteis absolutely correct when she says it is only as good as its weakest link. there are some places where there are not at all. it is almt a joke. for the most part it is done for the purpo o offand coming to thh congress and the american people and saying, we spent hundreds of millions of dollars on the border. is now secure. the fact is, you can spend hundreds of millions of dollars on the border and is still not will be secure. here is what can be done. all you have too his mandate and then enforce e-rarefy. the mandated for eveey single employee they have to simply take social security. adelle on line and it takes two minuteof the most. d.c. the person wanting a job, let they're soci security number and put it and because bat-to-bat.
i don know what's wrong with it. the number is b. if you dohat, if you mandate and un force to important things , e-verify. most of this problem goes away. you say enforce. john: meaning that somebody would punish the business that hires someone without using e-veriy. >> correct. or if they use it, even if they use itndtill hira person who is coming back with the wrong social security number, that could be a viotion and after enforce it. john: this sound very appealing. just one computer database where you can eck. but you are a conservative. you don't trust the government. why would you trust them to run e-verifyorrectly? >> welell, right nowbout 25000 businesses use it. they use it on voluntary basis. it is a relatively easy thing to do.
we require businesses to do all kinds o thing in terms of hiring practices. this is probably the easie step in the process. a simple entrynto a dabase. right now is like 98 percent accurate or better. john: think about that, 98ercent. 98 percent aurate sound pretty good. and it a gao audit into dozen 11 found it was even better. 99 percent accuracy. but that means about 450,000 people who are legit get flagged asllegal. at is awful. >> first of all, they don't get the job is the iss. you know wha this is not 100 percent. it is not 100 perce.
@%t itust depends. yo want an answer? that is my question. you actually want to do something aut it all would you rather have, as you said, labor force tha is affectednly by markets? demand. pele come. the wwge rates and lowered becausehey're is a lot of demand. so be it. john: what's wrong with that? >> well, what is wrong wit it? okay hoabout the millionof americanshose wage ratesre deessed and/or the people who are dislaced. the employer like that and a lot of csumers wouldike it, but the wkers are oi to be negatively affected. john: what about the americans do have just because their work for gria who were these businesses created by emigrants.
>> let them keep working. immigrants, we are not trying to stop every immigrant from coming into the country. why not take in that we need desperately, peopl cing in with capital to actually do exactly wh you said, invest in buness. people coming in with skills3 that we need. right now we don need a lot of people with low skills and low wage rat. they a just not necessary. john: i'm goi to talk later i the show about age one be visas whic is for skill workers. you called them fraudulent. >> they are. john: h be visas were iginally designed for the person that has uniqu underlying -- unie qualifications nowhere ee in the worldan we find that pern. that it -- that is what it was designed for. john: nowhere else in the world? >> yes. i'm sorry. no one in the united states fined person wit that qualification.
what it has turned into unfortunately, again, a lot of the oddest that you referred to earlier have identified the problem. they're now being used tbring peop in who have skills but will wk for less than people o are presently employed in the united states. john: people in america are just askilled and could take the people from india, the computer engineers are not better. >> in the of the institutis of higher education. are you really not turning out anybody that has these particular skills? itill tell you all the time that they are, but they are in direct up -- competition. john: a lot ofhe graauate students are from china and india. they are skilled, but they're not americans. we bring them over and give them a college education and then put them out. >> that's right.
if we need a particur skill immigrtion policy should reflect that. >> of demand. let them work. john: the oside of the economy. thk you. coming up, the debate on wther immigration is given a bad for america. more on that. d more onocial networking. my motheit's delicious. toffee so now we've turned her toffee into a business. my goal was to take an idea and make it happen. m janet long and i formed my toffee company through legalzoom.
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♪ john: feeling one of these? cleaning our sdioloor. the company that made iwas started by anmmigrant, one of thousands. we allowed some skilled entrepneurs in. anthat is why we nd to let more foreigners into the u.s.. the consumer electronics association. so, yor group runs this massive @%ow in las vegas wer allf these tech entrepreneurs show f this stuff. you can really see the emigran? >> absolutely. 3,0 companies that are extendingo 150,000 people from around the world. many are pursuing the american
dream. they have an idea and nothey can get funding to partnerips, retail and media coverage. john: they come here because they want to networkn silicon vaey and stuff happe. >> absolutely. i around the world and every one step the like america because we're the best in the wod. detracted best and brightest. every country should ve a strategy nd immigration. we los ours. we set up our borders, and it's hurting as. john: what do you mean we shot of our borde? >> we discouraging people from coming here. very difficult. when they become students they get their pcs and we ep them out. is a crime. john: kicking themut as the weird part. we pay f their education. help them pay for it. and then i know we have these h1bisas where w let high-skilled people and, 85,0 year. >> we need more because tha allocation buildup in a few
days. john: a few days. >> if you days. in the long run is a specialed jobs that cann be filled by americans which is why comnies are looking for thousands of people which is whyhey go invest overseas beten the tax laws and the immigration laws. forcing our best companies higher overseas. john: we have american enneers could do these jobs. >> we have some, but not all engineers and software people of the same. this is like the deficitn the nba and high-school basketball america is a land where exhibitionism stands out. want the best brightest. we want t from around the world. the rest of the world use to come he. australia, canda, new zealand, europe, they're all sayg we will go after the best and brightest. $7 billion per yearo resrch and american universities. a lot of that is done by foreign students in science, technology, engineering, math.
jimmy kick them out when they get a ph.d. john: on that note, give us some of these. these quotas limit the number. so complex, so much so that like this one.ng for billboard ve a h problems? pivot to canada. the immigration, even went to california jury chris meyer workers. >> theneed immigration lawyers to figure out how keep their status will they're trying to start a business and create jobs we give you a gen card to take a few months to process that. john:omething called the start of the sow wit the applicant, 200,000 fr a canadian venture-pital list. 75,000 from a canadian angel investor group. if he can speak french or english you can go to canada. >> these a immigrants bett job creators. that is an immtant thing to remeer. we are the mos heterogeneous company in the boroughs, our dirsity, different points of
viewhat give us that edge. compared to asian countries were evereryone agrees. th lack innovation. the chinese have a goal. but t are not -- that is part of their plan. that is what they're trying to do, and it is something which do not make any sense because what it really takes is a culture whi is why there are over 200. john: an argument? >> i tell you, 200,000hinese students increasingly tender ages because the don't know how to teach kids. we as their kids, they start. john in america. >> right. inhinesey do our culture is right and no laws are wrong. john: 200,000 from venture-capital is, 75rom an angel. >> easr to get venre-capit probably a policy ere you don't want people coming year. it requires a significant invement. john: and it is harder now than theysed to be for an immigrant to start a business.
>>harter because so man people wt to. we made it much more difficult. we don't treat people as well as they used to. we hav competition and we have higher corporate taxes. a lot of things are working against this in the long term and we have to change as a country of on to succeed because other countries now are doing will we're doing. we are not getting the best and brightest. have seen harvard ph.d. to tearsn their eyes being kicked out of the country. they want to stay here and hire people and get jobs and start. john: thank you. gary shapiro. you can learn re about what he says from this book, the come back, how innovatn will reste the amican dream. i sure hope the american dream is still therend does not need total restoring,hat wall might to avoid america's bureaucracy and immigration restrictions might be to srt eat your own untry right off of arica's
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♪ john: my last guest complains it is too hd for skilled immigrants to illegay work here. so if politicians won'tll engineers and physicists then, heres another approach, start your own business. california outsidehe reach of american immigration control. th is actually the plan of a group calle bluesy, founders are max marty and dario. so what are you going to do? >> w are creatin a communi miles off the coastf the san francisco bay area to aow entrepreneurs from all around the world to come there, live and work on their start-ups, brand new early stage companies. john: on a cruisehip.
>> is on a cruise ship that will be essentially stationery 12 miles off the coast. jo: off the coast of san frcisco because that is whe the yacht to prinrs want to be >> this is the place where silicon valley is, san francisco bay. this is one of theest locations anywhen the wor to start and grow businesses in the high-tech sector especially. this is the mca for entrepreneurs, and many have hard t coming to thi awesome place that silon valley is because of the restrictions that the place -- face. they're entrepreneurs of one to create js and paradoxically they have hard time coming in. john: 12 mileoff the coast you're free to do what y want independent of the government? >> you are outside -- legal the outside of the u.s. regulatory regime to mouse out of the federal government, things like the c, regulations, tngs like that. john: lots of companies have
expressed interest >> more than 414 companies expressed --xpect interest. so the dan is clearly not a problem because so many mpanies are frustrated with theicuent regulaty regime that they're faced with the. john: and people are alreadydy givi you money? what would cost? >> you have to rent the cruise ship, paper things that therew on board, moving provisions back-and-forth. it's a pretty big operation that will cost about 27 million to be dealt a certain operations. so far we have raised a small seed fund and a silicon valley, of 400,000 have another 9 million reserved for investors in silicon valley, looking for the remaining 18. and we are looking for the remaining 18 sets get going. john: originally you planned to
us look at the picture here, build the whole cityeld in the ocean. that w have bn with pilings. why did you drop that? >> the current solution is much more cost-efctive. e version of this. we wld like to start with some more lean can achieve versi that will get the job done. john: you are an immigrant. >> i am myself. jo: you went through the procs. was a torture? actually myself i came here out of pitical asym so the process -- john: year from bosnia. >> number bosnia. gracious enough to extend leases to me and my family. and as an immigrant and i can tell yourom a personal perspective that ii made a huge diffence being here, having an opportunity this. and it can beeen as my way of paying back that opportunity that i have been given.
basically alike ften lead t to others. many of them are as ambitious or more so than i am. smarter than i am. so this notion of the america eam is definitely somethg that on a personal level i beeve in because that'st. john: and a your parents were immigrants. >> they came out -- came over wh castro took power in cub. now they themselve entrepreneurs. they have a sma medical business in miami. john: something that is different. >> i think they are a self selected bunch. a person is actually wilng to leave everythingg that they have, eir families, go somewhere else, they want to changeheir lives. there are more likely to be a person who is polk -- pro-active about creating a feature for the families and lives lost to get your. >> it ismportant to mention that this oath country was founded by emigrants. th american dna, not just the recent ones. the whole country has this and
entrepreneurial dna because of the fact that people moved. ey had to leave their countries across the oces so i think this story has -- it is an old one. so i see myself as just a part of it comaontinuatio of the same story. john: tnkou. coming up,,a debate on whether immigration takes jobs for amerans. we touched o that earlier. next, she i one of america's coolest young entrepreneur is. she says being an immigrant is part of what ade her an entrepreneur. ♪
apple, budweiser, colgate, ibm, mcdonald's. in the high-tech field it is 60%. well, a new company may be the next monster success. i don't kw, but she is already ing millions commanding a magazine cald one of america's coolest yog entrepreneurs. >> i don't know why one caught but i believe that i work hard and. i like making things happe. john: your company is thi and marketingroup. yo advis companies. >> the marketing, full-service marketing firm. john: and you went to school. you came herehen you were a ars ol >> nine years old. john: nine years old. your father drove a cab and your mom or to attract any shop. >> my parents left very -- a very successful family business beckham.
it worked very hard. i went from having lots of family surrounding me and being gutted on to being a latkey kid. i was responsible for my and your sister. i had to msure she was fed, save, got off from school lat . my parents worked full-time. so whenever, as long as she was okay. that's it. john: iue alive? >> successful, driving, so i did something right. -ohn: a were you aware of your parents wook ethihic as a kid? there were may be different from the parents and the other kids in the school. >> definitely. my parents worked much harder than some of the parents. there would wake up early, come on leaded nightht. that they were willing to work hard, and i never saw them complain. my dad worked ridiculously long hours, but i never saw him say
this is too tough. he just kind of embrace of that was the meaning of life. john: how are youifferent from our arican beeeers? @% theeneral sense of enttilement that my generion often gets blamed goods. a little different than that because i saw what iidn't have. compared to what i do have. a much more grateful thing that some of my peers in that it not expect anything to be handed to me. errant when the recessionit riyadh graduated and there were no jobs in t market. certainly my industry did not exist. it took me sometime, but i went out there and started my own thing. i ave a lotf peers who aduated with me here still don't have jobs who are lving withheir parents. john: they went to companies in return down. you, instead, started your own thing. you tried. went to companies and said, exnd this thing called twitter. they said -- >> they said you're crazy.
this is social media is f. it did not g. very early. so we decided y really ddn't have much to lose. and as some of parents in skyrd facile notng and built something substantial. i knew it cld be don john: 30eople working for you. americans. >> yes. john: a book, the zen of social media marketing. >> that's right. john:en about the constant tweeting. >> is out to work wh social media. so the essen is people want have conversations. they're looking for quality information. they're looking for customer service. looking to connect. if you work with that rather than against it with -- which is the traditional way to market. draw message out there. instead, if you really workith sociallmedia, kin of look at why these tools are created and goith the flow, it's a much more is in like experience. john: good luck.
have you become a llion dollar company. >> thank you. john: thank you. next, people like ct, emigrant steal o jobs. several ad campaign say that they do. [ male announcer ] with free package pickup from the united states postal service a small design fircan ship like a big business. just go line to pay, print and have your packages pickedp for free. we'll do the rest. ♪ a lot can happen in a second. with fidelity's guaranteed e-second trade execution, we route youorder to up to 75 market centers to lk for the best possible price --
♪ john polls show most amerins aren't -- thank arrogance take away american jobs andhen some cases they do. and we see ads like this. >> and other american has lost his job. another breadwinner going home with the bad news. last year to a halfillion erica's lo jobs. high-tech construction and auto workers wiillions of jobless, our government is still bringing in a million have borne workers a year to take american jobs. john: that sounds terrible, and it is just intuitive. that means the are fewer jobs left for americans. and it really bothers thes people who did found standing in line and an unemployment office >> is going to make it worse than it already i. >> i'm about making it over your
first beforee take care of someon else. john: interviewing a people for a documentary he has made called they come america. dennis says too much immigration harms american. studying immigration at the cato institute and said that prevailing wisdom is czy. the more immigration the better. why? it is logical that they're take on america's jobs. >> not a fixed number of jobs in the economy. the more people that we have come t an area,ttracted to an areaor job opportunities. was there are they create jobs by being consumerist among being entrepreurs, having different skills than americans. ey work together for americans and e jo market. wh we see an alarmgly, and minister of american history, they come when there are jobs, don'tt there aren't . john: they cate jobs. shaking your hea and leaning
away from them. >> you will see. those people are not actors. and there are 20,aybe 30 million more people like them to gb my hand and say please tossup what youre doing cause i cannot judge job because they're being given to people with temporary visas. not once did you menon the unemployment rate in this country. americans are hurting, john. they're hurting. pele re takintheir jobs. >>ut are they hurting because of immigration? we into the people waing in the unemployment line. there are no jobs of there. john: we even -- hear me out. we went around and found within two hours, within a few blocks of this on a point of this 4 jobs, 28 for beginners. i think the emigrants try harder >> try harder at what?
wrote the hideout think he crossed th rio grae. you wat my films and see hundreds ofuy standing in the corner waing to get picked up to build their roofs or to put inindows were to paint the home. mewhile, good fo them. well, the last time i checked a lot of americans, construction workers, want to do those jobs. >> the last line of argument only makes sense if you think people are a liability in an asset. every single point he made could be made against having more americans. is man, and i don't begrudge him, but he is part of the think tank. we hav enough thinks. if i had it taken away call it do tank. i am out there doing i am meeting with these people. i am going down to the border. if you saw what i saw coming across the border, little segment the you had the frrnt was nice. it was cute, but that is our people are comg. i have seen men with machine
guns crossing over into t united states of arica with 60 people at a clip. @%u to the right and see a guy from the middle eas i fd science. i could give you the pictures off. signs written in chinese. >> every argument is makin is an argumentor increasing legal migration in allooing people to come in through the legal system sohey can get back projects and get on welfare. >> that's not true. >> i studied >> you can study all you want. there's a differee. >> you don't know what you're talking about? oh i don't? okay. i ve had businesses, many of them. don't want to here about americans will work hard. >> first of all, let me fish this point. very important. johnfinish your poi. >> and not against immigration. i love immigration. i hire people tough vises. but they're is a difference.
we are taking into many people rit now, throwing aricans under the bus. john: the same as saying i'm against the people being born. it is an anti person argument. >> it is not an anti pson argument. >> having peoole come. he's making it an anti welfare argument. it's great if he made an anti-immigrant argument, but ery argument he is using his one is the welfa state, and i am in favor. we le reality in data. agassi's 42% less. >> then make the same arguments you did. [inaudible conversations] you need to know more about your history. john: too much at the same time.
in the 2s people said the irish were drunks. the italians were stupid. jews were obnoxious. we have old ads, no irish need apy. >> what's the point? >> people have always said these immian are going to take welfare. >> pointed outrish and italian. i have not pntedut and that e city since i have been sitting here. john: there has always been an anti-immigrant attitudes. >> she works for an organization where people donate money, lots and lots of mon. very rich peoe. but i and a stand that americans right now are hurting. ey are hurting because they cannot find jobs. i'm not saying stop all immigration. and sank in a slowdown. catch r breath, get americans baak to work. let's make sure that george kane does not have to save you from a buildi. >> one of the main arguments
made by the founders against king george is that he andhe illegal immigration to thehe countr. americans founders soht igration as a promise that anyone could come here. john holding the declaration of independence. u can get them freed. thank you. with that in mind i should say that i would not be here today. today's immigrati laws are in effect when my parents came here. that is next. ♪ we nt out and asked people a simple question: how old is the oldest person you've known? we gave people a stier anhad them show us. we learned a lot of us have k someone who's lived well into their 90s. and that's a great thing. but even though we're living longer, one thing that hasn't changed much is the official retirement age. ♪ the question is howo you make sure you have the money you need to enjoy all of these years. ♪
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what's in your wallet? ♪ john: sure hope that congress new emigration proposal will doome good because whener you think the rules suld be, it is not good for america when millions of people live here ii secret. that means they don't report crimes t police, often don't pa taxes. the neighborhoods where lots of peop have no papers,s, it's easier for criminals to hide their let bring the illegals out of the shadows. in saying that, though, i contradict one ofy heroes, the great ecomist, milton friedman who once said of mican immigration,t is better if it is illegal because as long as it is illlgal for people to come, they don't qualify for welfare and sociall securit they migrate to jobs which raises a contradiction that we libertarians face. i believe in open borders whe prts and ideas and people are free to moveve where.
the whole world benefits. during america first hundred years open immigration helped make america rich. now american is a welfare state. some people do come here just a free love which is a big problem 7 billion people on earth and most of very poor. in some emigrants want to kill us which is a bigger proem. wewe need rules, and border control. but policing illegal immigration would be much easier if we did not have so many laws and such restrictive laws. if ten or 12 million people are here ially, how cou authorities possibly focus on the ones we should worry about let's lighten up on the rules, he's the immigration quotas my father was an immigrant to came he from germann becse he and to work and did work. he eventually built a tell-all factory that employs 100 people making tells like these. he was good for arica. odds are he would not be able t
come here today. the rules are mu more complex and difficult. people say foreigners should just get in line and ce here legally, buthat line is brutal reason magazine cartoon trieso illustrated. my father only had t pass a literacy ttst. now a compurrogrammer from india will have to wait an average 11 years to get a visa. for others the rules are even re complex and the wait longer. this websi askyou questions to dermine if your answers would be allowedo america today. i answer them from my father and leard there no pass for people like him, except the lottery where the odds are really b. no wonder so many people sneak into america. but creating a blackkmarke in people makes problemsorse. people want to come here to work. we ought to let them.3 immigrants are people with the ambion to my guts to leave their homes to psuehe ameran dream.
there are special people, and we shou let most of t them in. that isur show. thank you for watching. ♪ ♪ ♪ >> tom: the scandals are flying. ever day a new revelation in the name of our safety, has the government gone too far? let begin talking abot what to do with the leakers. edward snowden right here and right now. >> tom: thanks for joining . here at theop of the stack. everyone by now has heard edd snowden. at first he was at any rate to i wanteding in washington b hero to many people across the country. his first revelation was simply that government is sing on us, i citizens. will that change as we