tv Countdown to the Closing Bell With Liz Claman FOX Business February 18, 2015 3:00pm-4:01pm EST
weather center. i hope you are making money, maybe a lot of money. "countdown to the closing bell" starts right now. liz: the second the fed minutes were released, it was quick and suddenly over. right at 2:00 p.m. eastern, the dow jones industrials and the s&p see the spike there? began to quickly tick higher. the phrase in the just released minutes from the january fed meeting that did it, many participants regarded dropping the language in the statement. whenever that occur as risking a shift in market expectations for the beginning of policy firming toward an unduly narrow range of day thes. let me translate. we know the fed officials are clearly worried about rattling the markets. in just a moment, we've got the man who has his finger on the fed's pulse. jon hilsenrath will give us the crucible, when will the fed raise rates? remember the milli vanilli song
blame it on the rain? now we can expect blame it on the snow. slower pacing of u.s. home builders. housing starts fell to 1.7 million last month. too cold to do the work. emergency crews on the scene look at the cause of this major explosion at an exxonmobil refinery in torrance, california. it appears it happened at a gas processing unit at the refinery. two people slightly injured. shares of exxonmobil, the price has been falling since word of the explosion earlier this morning, but contributing to the slide, warren buffett exiting entire exxonmobil position, he sold them. currently exxonmobil the biggest dow loser. more on the explosion as details are available. it is the last hour of trade so let's start the "countdown."
. liz: breaking news, we now know that the federal reserve is worried about the stock market. are they supposed to be in the just released minutes from the latest fed meeting flat-out show committee members were concerned about market reaction when it signals a willingness to raise rates? how did they use the word market? this is the big question. on this network, we had several key committee members express strong opinions that the fed might be late when it comes to hiking rates. listen. >> i would expect you will see a hike sometime this year. >> the economy is not in a crisis anymore, and need to begin to raise the rates. if we start sooner, we'll be able do it more gradually. >> based on the data, you would have raised rates yesterday. >> probably. liz: that's foster and before that richard fisher. it's important to note those two members are retiring, vocal and free about preferring a rate hike sooner rather than
later. when will the fed get impatient with the word patience? fed members are for raising rates. the cleveland federal reserve members, the st. louis fed members and more. joining us to decode the minutes jon hilsenrath "wall street journal" chief economic correspondent. when the fed said markets, do they mean the stock market reaction? >> i think they mean all markets, and that includes the stock market. here's what they're worried about. they've been saying they're going to be patient before they start raising rates. if they take that word out, then people are going to think, they're raising rates tomorrow. really what they want to do and they're looking at doing this in march is take that word out just so they've got an option to do it later in the year, if they think the data confirm it. they're not committed to raising rates and i think that comes out of the minutes. they're doing a lot of waiting behind the scenes to figure out what the right time is.
liz: right off the bat, people are figuring the fed has certain mandates. why don't you explain what the written mandates are and is one not to gyrate the stock market, which they've pushed people toward as far as a risk opportunity is concerned? >> their mandates relate to inflation and the job market, they're supposed to seek maximum employment, which is basically a low unemployment rate, and they're look for a 2% inflation. their mandate is not the stock market. when they think how the economy behaves, how it goes about producing jobs and affect on inflation, they look at financial market reactions to what they do. because that's the transmission mechanism. when they move interest rates, it affects economic markets. liz: the federal reserve balance sheet and the dow almost moving in lockstep. the yellow part is as the balance sheet gets closer and closer to 5 trillion. the dow moved higher, you're
not going to get money in a savin savings account or money market. greece possibly being jettisoned from the european union, are those weighing heavily on the federal reserve and members? >> it's all weighing on it. you also need to talk about the dollar. there was a fair amount of talk about the dollar in the minutes today. fed officials are looking at stronger dollar and saying that could hurt the export picture for us. it's all a factor. i can't see the chart that you've got up there, but it's sure, the stock market rallied as the fed has done all this qe. if you go back to 2007, 2008, the stock market tanked, and i don't know if that shows up in your chart, but the stock market tanked before the fed started doing all these moves. it's responding now in part to bouncing back after that big collapse that we had.
liz: here's the s&p right now, record territory yesterday, we're pulling back just by under two points at the moment. jon, stick in that seat for a movement one of the issues affecting the u.s. economy is the fact it's stuck between a rock and a hard place literally. january housing starts at 1.06 lower than the 1.07 economists were predicting partially due to the harsh winter weather stalling construction. so many regions were down, that, of course affected it. to the hard place, the nine month west coast showdown showing no signs of slowing down. here to break down what's costing our economy is rich edson, rich? >> reporter: these delays reduced u.s. ag exports by $1.5 billion in january. the dispute is costing 85 million dollars a week.
retailers are affected they account for most of the top importers in the country, walmart, target, home improvement stores and food sellers. u.s. businesses anticipated months ago a combative possibly protracted labor dispute and that's what they got. they divert traffic to ports in mexico, the gulf states or east coast. they are exhausting contingency plans. >> air freight is typically eight to ten times more expensive. something retailers want to avoid to try and do. i think retailers are exasperating all options on the table and getting to a point where this issue needs to be resolved now to get the ports back up and running as they were previously. >> reporter: the obama administration dispatch secretary, labor secretary to the west coast, the labor department official tells us perez will continue meeting today with both sides of this
dispute. back to you. liz: he's got a lot of experience, i would say fox business was trying to warn them in november. get over there. we've got a problem on the situation. we've got it on tame. thank you so much. markets look beyond u.s. headlines, cannot forget what's going on overseas. breaking news in the past hour, the european central bank announced it is expected to continue the ela. the emergency liquidity assistance program, what greek banks use to stay afloat. it's costly, but they're using it, and there was question whether it's going to be cut off. not going to be cut off. what's important to experts? is it greece? the fed? or u.s. economic data. right to the floor show traders at the new york stock exchange, cme group and jon hilsenrath back. keith bliss, the behavior with the markets today when they saw what the fed minutes said spiked and came back down. what spooked the markets?
>> people tried to pars the fed statement of any nature whether it's minutes or fed speakers or announcements they make a monetary policy at the end of meeting. you're going to get those types of gyrations, the market is trading at all-time highs. the markets are not going to move anywhere for a while because in my own opinion, what's most important to the markets is what's going on with greece and european finance minister situation and the u.s. economic data and the fed in that order. that's how we'll be taking them over the next moshgs culminating with the fed meeting march 18th. we're looking for the word patience or the lack of the word patience for sure as jon is pointing out that they're worried about. those are things moving the markets. don't expect it to move much over here, a wrath of economic data coming at us over the next week could be importance, but it's all about what's going on with greece and the other finance ministers as we get closer to the february 28 date.
liz: i don't know if you saw, keith, david einhorn is taking bets on greek banks through warrants. and as you know, we've had all kinds of people on saying take a shot at greek investments. very risky, very risky. phil, did you see what the fed said about lower oil prices? this jumped out at me. quote, lower oil prices could slow economic growth instead of speeding it up by making gasoline cheaper. i don't know which way to go with this? >> i agree with them. that was one of the things peter barnes asked janet yellen and janet didn't want to say what was in the fed minutes, that there is a concern by the fed that the crashing prices could hurt the economy. liz: why? >> i'll tell you why. when oil prices come down normally, based upon normal fundamentals, that's a good boost for the economy. when the prices crash like they did after the opec meeting, it
causes a lot of damage. think of the billions of dollars in capital spending that has been announced because oil prices have been crashed. how many pink slips in the energy industry have already been issued and are going to continue to issue? and if you look at the backbone of this economic recovery, one of the strongest parts was the u.s. energy industry. it's taken a hit unlike anything we've probably seen in the last decade or so, and they're worried about the ramifications. liz: jon, do you agree with that? and okay, yes, what was happening in north dakota and all of the places that have the shale boom, that's great, but just as the housing industry imploded, there are cycles to the boom and bust issues. >> i think on gasoline prices you have to put that in perspective. for every pink slip that a driller is getting in texas or north dakota, the average american is getting a 20 or $30 a tank load tax cut effectively
every time they fill their tank. so it does hit discreet parts of the economy, but more broadly. hundreds of billions of dollars at stake for the average american. >> are is the fed worried? why is the fed concerned? >> actually, the fed right now on net sees it as a positive, this comes out in the minutes in a couple of different ways. they say lower oil prices could help to boost economic growth through consumption, but worried about demand from china. one of the reasons that commodity prices broadly are falling is because demand in china is very soft. they're worried about the demand signals they might be getting from outside the united states and those effects on the economy. but a lot of this stuff balances out. liz: but i also think if you look at what's happening, one of the biggest concerns globally is deflation. when you get oil prices crashing like they have, that can cement the deflationary expectations.
look at europe right now, they have one of the lowest inflation readings on record. we've had every central bank in the globe cutting rates to fight deflation. obviously, a lot of times when oil prices fall, it's really a barometer on the economy. liz: a lot has been engineered lately. we're watching it. this is a movie we haven't seen. warren buffett said that a long time ago, keith, phil, jon, thank you so much. 47 minutes in the closing bell rings. imagine a speaker that learns your musical tastes and moves at different times of the day and all you have to do is turn a dial, and it looks pretty darn cool, too. ether music players are trying to upend the audio world. that means spotify and pandora and everything else. ether's co-founder duncan land in start-up nation. how is the high-tech ford
f-150 really selling? how does it perform under extreme conditions? jeff flock putting the f-150 through paces live in dearborn, michigan. his next test is coming up next. you got to see this. a dry mouth can be a common side effect. that's why there's biotene. it comes in oral rinse, spray or gel, so there's moisturizing relief for everyone. biotene, for people who suffer from a dry mouth. whto have an unlimited mileage warranty on a certified pre-owned rcedes-benz? what does it mean to drive far as you want... for up to three years... and be covered? it means your odometer...
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. liz: it's all very nice when a car works perfectly well in 75 degrees and slightly sunny. but what happens when you put it in the snow and minus 5 degrees? is ford's new f-150 the toughest truck on the block in the midst of a new record break snowfall total. ford is claiming aluminum truck can beat competitors in the battle against the snow. so because we're journalists, we don't take anybody's word for it. our own jeff flock putting the pedal to the metal. live from dearborn, michigan. jeff, how is the ride? >> amazing truck, liz, it gets a lot of kudos and we're testing it ourselves. we are plowing snow in detroit. it's snowing
better mileage today than the alleged mileage of the aluminum truck with ford by using these. started looking at advantages of the investment. we're going to hold off and see what happens in the marketplace. >> reporter: okay, well, he's holding off, but i tell you, by the looks of what i see here today, liz, this may be the ticket. this f-150 is fighting snow pretty hard you. >> missed a spot in the back. >> i can go back and get it. liz: you're like a zamboni on wheels. while you were doing that report, the dow jones industrials turned positive. those guys are awfully calm with you trying to lift the thing. i want one of those attached to the front of my car, looks like fun. dow just turned negative after turning positive, trying to move above the flat line here. let's move onto. this you may remember this
iconic scene from the 1984 classic rock mockumentary. this is spinal tap. >> this is a top to a what we use on stage, but it's very, very special, because as you can see, the numbers all go to 11. look. right across the board. 11, 11, 11. >> and amps go up to 10. >> exactly. >> does that mean it's louder? any louder? >> it's one louder, isn't it. liz: sounds too good to be true, turn the dial up a notch? guess what, there's a company taking it to new heights, aether's cone player is as simple as turning the dial but you don't have to search. it learns user's favorite songs, context clues like the time of day, users can request songs, artists or genres available on streaming service.
aether co-founder and chief financial officer duncan lamb. this goes to 21, not just 11. what an amazing product here? >> thank you very much. thanks, liz. liz: let's talk about exactly what the aether does and why do i need this? especially when there is spotify and pandora, what can you offer that i don't have? >> well, as you said, there's a lot of choice. whenever someone goes into a store looking for a way to listen to music at home, they have a lot of choice. aether looked at the problem in a different way. we wanted to build something that was incredibly simple and incredibly direct, and basically save people from this constantly look at their phones and trying to figure out what they want to listen to. they can reach out and spin the dial, and cone will play what it thinks is the right song for
right now, and if you know exactly what you want to hear, you just ask for it. you put your finger on the button and i'd say play taylor swift or play it's an american life podcast, and it will play it. liz: it recognizes preferences, it does vocal commands, what else does it do? >> well, that is what it does. we were very disciplined about not trying to throw in the kitchen sink. it does come with a -- with an app, if a new song comes on and you don't know what it is or old favorite comes on that you can't remember, you can pull out your phone. you can take a look and see what the song is. the important thing is you don't need to use your phone, you can reach out, turn the dial. liz: that comes in black and copper and you have a white and silver one which seems
applesque, speaking of which, design is right up apple's alley way. we always ask our start-up people this, everyone is on the hunt for the best new idea to add so they don't have to actually do it in basically another way, which costs a lot more money. >> well, we have a lot of respect for the work that apple and many other companies are doing right now. we have a lot of ambitions and a lot of ideas that we want to see through. so really what we're focused on now is making cone a success and listening to the people who have bought cone already, and are giving us really great feedback and making it as good as we can, and really following this path that we've laid out for ourselves to make the incredibly simple objects, which can think to a certain extent for themselves, and help us make really great choices
but leave us still in control. liz: there's a 30 million song catalog. the cost $399 in the states. how do they find it if they want to buy it, duncan? >> can you buy it on aether.com, on amazon also, and we're working hard to make sure it's out there in places where people can go and experience it for themselves. liz: and by the way, if you're listening on sirius xm, it's not spelled like ether, it's a-e-t-h-e-r. we love the entrepreneurial stories. thank you. duncan lamb is chief product officer, see if you can beat the sonos of the world. closing bell 34 minutes away, which merrill lynch employee received potentially the biggest deal ever. this jaw-dropping amount will shock you. and guess what, merrill is trying to poach some of the top players on wall street away from one other bank. charlie gasparino joins me with
. liz: we have breaking exclusive news. one of the top hedge fund managers in the world is claiming that twitter has afake account in his name. he is complaining to twitter about this. >> paulson has made a formal complaint to twitter about someone impersonating him posting a john paulson twitter account. there are fake accounts out there, but they do say, this is not carl icahn, this is an impersonation of carl icahn. i believe there's a fake carl icahn account. and this person did not say. that i saw the tweet, we went to paulson and company and asked for confirmation about this, they said it was fake.
they contacted us and gone a step further, they're complaining to twitter, and paulson is not happy about this that someone was allowed to create what looked like a real account, no disclaimaers it's fake, nothing of that sort, he's out there trying to impersonate john paulson. social media could move stocks. liz: absolutely. >> john paulson does not use social media. it's not an isolated incident. the story about bullying and fake twitter accounts. liz: twitter has a problem, there's a bunch of stuff that's not real or violent or there are threats. >> it would be nice if they get rid of the jerks that are stock me. this one clown got mad about a fannie mae trade. liz: he reaps what he sows. don't take stock tips off twitter claiming to be john paulson. you were rushing down here to
talk about how morgan stanley's employees are being poached by merrill. >> there's a brokerage group out of l.a., they run a lot of money, run by a guy named bruce munster, worked at morgan stanley that got poached from merrill lynch. poached to go to merrill lynch. this happened over the last couple of weeks. we did a little digging, what we understand merrill poached them, this is bank of america unit, they bought merrill during the heist financial crisis. in the industry, they used a record-breaking up-front bonus, bonus to lure them to the firm. what do i mean by record breaking? a lot of times the deals are structured, you get a percentage how much revenues you generate in the previous 12 months. sources have been telling us they were giving, this brokerage led by mr. munster, 400% of trailing 12 months'
revenues. the deal amounts to something more than 20 million dollars just to jump ship. we understand this is a deal that is spaced over a number of years but this is raising a lot of eyebrows on wall street. a notion that usually you see deals like this when you get to the top of the market, people poaching other numbers that generally occurs at the top of the market. people are wondering whether this thing is actually going to pay for itself. we went to merrill lynch, i asked them to comment on the numbers, they say they are very happy to have mr. munster. liz: maybe paying to get to the top. you have to pay. >> i will say, this we run this by a lot of people, we don't know all the economics. we know what we can find out. merrill has no obligation to disclose how much they are paying mr. munster, and they don't want to comment on this. they're happy to have him, but these things are spaced out over a period of years, and the
question is, if we have a blip in the market downward, does that type of money -- does it pay off? liz: or you're at morgan stanley and freaking out because best guys are going to be poached. >> i think they are not freak out. not saying munster is not a great broker, he probably is. liz: smart enough to live in l.a. >> that's a positive. i love l.a. the money might not be worth the hassle of paying. you know, listen -- liz: we've seen a few deals like this. >> this is a business, brokerage, this is not a high-margin business, i'm going to work out something from foxbusiness.com, kind of lay out the issues. liz: and go find out if the fake john paulson was tweeting stock tip. >> funny, he said i'm finally starting to do this. liz: they did that with jamie dimon. >> sounded like it was real for
a minute. but it's wrong, and they're complaining to twitter. maybe paulson will yell at costelov. liz: he's a very nice man. >> i met him through scaramucci. liz: closing bell 25 minutes away, a slew of restaurant stocks are suddenly breaking out to record highs. today in particular, but doing well lately. why? is that extra gas money because gas is so cheap going into restaurants? it's restaurant week here in new york city. coming up, hospitality entrepreneur and brilliant chef charlie palmer here live to give us a glimpse of restaurant week. it's ash wednesday, people giving up biggest temptations for lent. what do you need to give up in your portfolio to clean that up? still ahead, brilliant market panel that's too brilliant. we'll break down what you
. liz: salivating over restaurant stocks, let's take a look. a bunch of them are rith record highs today. not just 52-week highs, record highs. just in time for new york city's restaurant week. restaurant week takes place in cities all across the nation, but here in new york, 24,000 restaurants. this gives customers the chance to eat at all different types of places where they may not drop bucks or test out otherwise, because there is a prefix, 38 bucks for all kinds of food. restaurant owners are doing extraordinarily well, they're finding brand new clients and fans along the way.
dissecting restaurant week is chef hospitality and entrepreneur, charlie palmer. if you don't know charlie, you opened charlie palmer's stake, you are participating in this. i have to ask you, are you the beneficiary of low gasoline prices right now? >> i hope so, people are eating out more, as you say, the restaurant business is booming. new york city restaurant week, it's something that's really expanded. we've been doing it for ten years on 42nd street and charlie palmer steak. this is our first year participating. 340 restaurants participating in restaurant week. $25 prefixed lunch is amazing deal, and $38 prefixed deal gives people a chance to go to restaurants they may not think of going to otherwise. liz: a regular ticket at oriole is not that cheap, it's not
that inexpensive. i was looking at dinner menu, you could choose between a wedge salad, celery root purrie and stake tar tar, crisp brussels is that brussel sprouts. >> brussel sprouts. liz: i love the crispy ones, and the dessert, cheesecake pudding! >> i want some! >> i want that. what is cheesecake puding? >> attempt at making a light cheesecake, it's aerated, you can get the toasted graham and everything, but not the dense, heavy cheesecake. liz: for those of us who live in ohio, aerated means essence, i want the thing. but let's talk about what restaurant week means at a time when the economy is slightly
dicey? >> new york city and company when they founded the restaurant week thing years and years ago, it was to establish and bring a period where people focused on new york city restaurants. people dine out and a lot of people dine out day after day after day because of such a great value, but it gives people like i said access to the restaurants that might not -- might not think of going there, like a steakhouse. liz: what's perfect is the timing, this is coinciding with fashion week. >> fashion week is going on, a lot of activity in the city. even though it's freezing cold. people eat more when it's cold. liz: comfort food. >> the end piece, please. >> the hangar steak. you went from the chef to an office. you turned this into a massive business. have you 30? >> 14 restaurants. boutique hotels also. liz: you actually own boutique hotels? >> we have three that we operate as well as the
restaurants and bars that are in them. >> here's the map, your dad was a farmer and plumber and jack of all trades and mom ran the family store. could it still happen today? >> i think so, i'm a big believer, i tell my four sons, anything is possible, you have to put your effort behind it. liz: sweat equity. >> but i believe in the american dream. i'm living proof of that. when i came to new york city back in 1979, i literally had a few hundred bucks in my pocket, and a rent controlled apartment someone was letting me live in. so people are like, really? you were like that. liz: find a way, find a way. charlie palmer, check out charlie palmer steak, dg burger, do you have danny meyer envy, he went public with shake shack? >> incredible success. congratulations by the way. liz: you could too one day. >> who knows. liz: good luck to you.
>> thank you. liz: i'm coming for the fillet. you have any spaces? >> absolutely. liz: charlie palmer group ceo, as we mentioned, bunch of restaurant stocks hitting record highs. can we take a look, sonic, texas road house, starbucks moving to record highs, that was an $8 stock at the low of the markets in 2009. coulda, woulda, shoulda, right, charlie. good to see these hitting record highs. the mardi gras parties are over, today marks the beginning of lent where christians worldwide give up something they love for 40 days and 40 nights. coming up next, our experts tell you what plays you should give up in your portfolio and which you should indulge in no matter what? it's all about making money.
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about how you want things to be. [ male announcer ] go long™. . liz: with equities delivering blockbuster returns over the past three years, we hit a record high yesterday. no wonder that many investors have been hooked on u.s. stocks. that may be changing. already two legendary investors george soros and david tepper disclosed in the latest f-filings, they are giving up on u.s. stocks and rotating out of them into europe and asia. in the spirit of ash wednesday, we've decided to ask our next two guests what they're giving up for the so-called financial lent. joining me federated investors chief investment officer straight from church, and jeff sika, steve, at any given point, lent or not, people
should be wiping up portfolios to make sure it's appropriate allocation at appropriate time. what's appropriate right now? >> long-term, we're still bullish as you know, liz, we just hit 2100, which was our target we set for the end of last year. if you want to talk about lent and sacrifices, in here, we probably be giving up on the cyclicals, industrials, especially on the energy stocks, a real nice run, and we think the market could be in for a pullback the next several months as we think interest rates are going lower. liz: hasn't that already begun with energy? >> i'm sorry. liz: hasn't that begun with energy? >> we had a nice rally over three weeks, up 20% or more. it's time to lighten up if you're in them, and catholics we do something for lent. we don't just give up. what i would do is i would buy some of the defense, some of the utility stocks down 10%. nice yields on them, 3.5%.
a lot better than bonds and with growth, and we think those stocks could have another leg up in the next few months. liz: jeff, what are you giving up for financial lent, and what would you recommend? >> one thing i could say is i've been giving up stocks for quite awhile now. liz: i remember that. >> i think it's ironic to be at a point now where we continue to hit these one high after the other, and then it's of this fed driven enthusiasm about the market. if investors haven't seen that this whole thing is beginning to unravel. this narrative that the fed has put out is beginning to unravel. this is a reason to begin to take money, take money off the table, get out of some of the stocks, we have the nasdaq hitting all-time highs, all the indexes, and right now everybody is zeroed in on the fed. that is a bad spot to be in. liz: you started financial lent early, you were going into real
estate, what else would you be rotating into? >> you have to look at -- i like real assets. i like real estate at this point. i think there's going to continue to be movement in real estate. i think it's important to go back to looking at real precious metals. people are tired of gold or don't want to talk about gold, you but i think it's time. liz: you still like lockheed martin? >> in any market you find select opportunities. in the case of lockheed martin, lockheed martin is going to take advantage of the geopolitical unrest. everything that's going on in the mideast, they'll capitalize on a lot of the countries as the situation begins to unfold. liz: nice chart, but steve, he's pretty negative overall on stocks. what would you say to him? >> i'd say when lent is over, get back into stocks. we see the averages going 2500 two or three years from now. we just left a secular bear
market that lasted 15 years. earnings are pretty solid. little soft right now, but they'll have another leg up. the economy is recovering from five years ago nowhere. interest rates are abnormally low, and they're going to stay low for a long time. liz: jeff, you just made a point that sent a shiver up me where you said the nature sif starting to unravel. today the fed minutes come out and they're worried about changing the word patient because of what the markets may do. is there a way to put a sheet of teflon wrapped around a portfolio at this point? >> think about this, we've been spoon fed low interest rates. we've grown to be used to zero interest rates. investors are spoiled. the fed knows that they can't even say one word out of line. they have lost control. if they say one word out of line, they're worried about the bond market, they're worried about europe.
they're artificially suppressing interest rates. i believe we've gotten so spoiled, so used to the zero interest rates, that's why the market is up. there's going to be a point where they can't keep the interest rates this low for too much longer. >> that's when we go back to church and pray. happy holiday to all of you. steve and jeff, great to have you. between the two of them, 52 billion in assets. have a lovely easter when it comes 40 days from now. closing bell five minutes away, the fed causing the markets to reverse course and turn back around and it had everything to do with that word patience. will the rally continue into the close, in some of the indexes like the nasdaq. i'd hardly call that a rally. russell barely higher. that's a record. a few more minutes until the closing bell rings. don't move. "after the bell" with everything you need to know for your money.
>> as we look at markets you could call this a flat market. david: we were talking about the dan okay road. we don't have dan okay road akroyd but a great lineup. liz: you have to talk about exxonmobil. it is a dow laggard. we're following a refinery explosion and buffett getting out of the stock. >> right. there was not only the refinery explosion but yesterday's news that berkshire hathaway sold three quarters after billion dollars. george soros got out also. when you combine exxonmobil, they were down big, totaling 16 points off the dow. david: stock always seems to be in the news as far as hedge funds are concerned, herbalife. herbalife is down, why? >> herbalife is down because several hedge funds are selling positions. who is increasing his stake by 80%. george soros. took money from exxonmobil and
bought some herbalife. liz: that is interesting. [closing bell ringing] into utilities now. the bells ring on wall street. as we look and see how stocks finish -- finish up. it has been what the lower banner says. volatile day for stocks. fed minutes came out showing quite a bit of hesitancy moving forward on just single words like patient. makes you start to wonder if they are overly frightened, david how to proceed here. david: clearly they are. and the betting was right before these minutes came came out there probably would be a rate hike in 2015. even anthony scare my think may be changing his mind. that is not a sure thing it seems at all. liz: not at all. "after the bell" starts right now. david: let's get into the action.