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tv   Countdown to the Closing Bell With Liz Claman  FOX Business  October 1, 2015 3:00pm-4:01pm EDT

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there was a shooting on an oregon community college campus which left at least ten people dead, over 20 people injured. shooter going from building to building at the college. we know that the shooter is down. the situation appears to be contained. we're awaiting more information on those injuries and fatalities. i'm going to send it over to liz. liz: i'll take it, trish, thank you very much. we are with breaking news learning more about the deadly shooting at umpqua community college. if you are just joining us, the dow is down 44 points, so this really doesn't matter at the moment. what matters is what's going on, on the screen. the college in roseburg, oregon, by the minute here's what we know. there are 15 people dead. 20 wounded, according to local media reports. there are also reports that the shooter is in police custody. we do not know his condition yet, we do know he is a male. there it is roseburg, south of eugene, oregon.
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roseburg is a small town population 20,000. the portland, oregonian newspaper reporting officers responded around 10:40 a.m. pacific to reports of shooting at the college. what happened next? five minutes later, there was a tweet put out everybody batten down there's a shooting, the oregonian said police scanner traffic indicated shortly thereafter the shooter was down. multiple ambulances have responded to the scene. that's a picture of one of them. again, we're talking about 15 people killed, according to reports, because we've been following this second by second. the shooter walked from classroom-to-classroom, building-to-building at umpqua community college. this is an overhead picture, he went from class to class, building to building seeking out and shooting victims. back to roseburg, a city of 20,000. 260 miles south of portland.
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a little closer to eugene but close to the coast of the pacific. we're looking for more information. and the minute we get it we're bringing it to you. joining me is jose cordero, he runs the cordero group, he has more than 21 years of experience with the new york police department, nypd. your experience, when you heard, this what went through your mind right off the bat? >> it was quite shocking to see just the number of people injured or killed, as a result of this incident, you know, and it's unfortunate when anyone is killed. clearly, we have a mass casualty incident, in a relatively quiet community. something that seems to be increasingly more common these days than in the past. and, of course, the chaos. not only for the victims and those who are sheltered in classrooms and staff but also
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for emergency responders and the chaos they were exposed to and dealing with early on. liz: it's very hard for us to know if some of the injured were injured by being shot or by rushing to hide because when you have a chaotic situation like this, people are doing whatever they can to survive. we don't have clarification on any of that, but when you hear that one single man was able to walk through classroom by classroom systematically killing people, this is reminiscent of the horrific shooting in this area in newtown, connecticut, where children, tiny five-year-olds were murdered by a lone gunman. what does this tell you? as we wait to hear more on the detail of the actual perpetrator, what's your best guess what kind of person this was? >> well, obviously someone who is bent on committing these horrific crimes.
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you know, school classrooms and school environment, you present in one classroom a lot of targets, a lot of defenseless targets. so as the person or the criminal or suspect goes from one classroom to the other, we don't have the facts, we don't know how many classrooms he went to for that matter, or people were shot. my sense is that depending on the kind of a weapon that you have or the type of weapon today, obviously with semiautomatics and assault-type weapons, you can shoot and injure and kill a lot of people that are confid in a small space. liz: in newtown one tiny little girl was shot five times. we don't know what happened here. there is one detail coming out. we're hearing one female victim was shot in the chest at the college. these details are coming in very slowly because it is a chaotic and dramatic situation.
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what have you on the screen is a still photo. let me explain jose what we're showing. a couple of ambulances, make that three, behind them there are probably many more. for a small city like roseburg, oregon, what do you expect? what kind of help are you getting from all the areas around that? and will people come from as far away as portland and eugene? >> absolutely. this is the type of situation, look, we have information that the shooter's down, but clearly the search by the police and the search teams are not over. they have to ensure that, in fact, there was only one shooter. that they've gotten to and cleared all the areas of the entire college. so this is going to be a resource intensive, not to mention caring for the injured and those who have died, but so it's good to require a lot of assistance. i imagine that the county
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sheriff, the city, the town, school police officials as well as state police are involved and coordinating these operations. liz: one of the coordinations happening right now and we're just hearing this, students and faculty members are being moved, now that the shoot ser incapacitated, they're moving the students and faculty members probably hiding in closets in classrooms bussed to the county fairgrounds. jorge, stay with us, gerri willis has the very latest on the actual timeline, gerri. >> that's right, that's right, at 10:30 west coast time, they're three hours behind us, liz, the authorities there, the douglas county sheriff's office responding to calls of an active shooter at the umpqua campus. umpqua community college, they have 3300 full-time students, it's actually much bigger than that because they have 16,000 part-time students. so that makes it sound like a
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much bigger campus than originally thought. this is in roseburg, oregon, built in 1964, been around a while, obviously, it's not a massive institution but bigger than we thought. we have a call to authorities, then a local fire district advising people in a tweet to stay away from the area. as you have already reported, the shooter going from classroom-to-classroom, a horrific scene playing out. a tweet from one of the students, this is the tweet, students are running everywhere, holy god. this continues and by 11:35, more reports from officials there, s.w.a.t. teams moving building to building trying to contain the situation. we've even heard reports the bureau of tobacco and firearms, folks coming in from all over the state. oregon there is trying to help coming into help. a big response, obviously, this
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is not a super urban acres fairly rural. the people fairly dispersed. they are getting help from all over the state at this time. we also heard that some people have been helicoptered out for treatment, and i'm finding that on the oregonian website which has a live blog running what's going on there right now. we're following that as well. liz, i'll give it back to you, as i get more i'll pop back on. liz: i need to clarify something, and gerri and jose would agree with me. when we say 15 people have been killed, that number could change. we pray it does not go higher. we hope it goes lower. there is some question as to how many people have been killed, whether it's 10, 15, possibly more. there are those wounded who may come out of this, people thought they were dead, they're not. let us just say that for those holding out hope. i want to bring in and jose stay with me, daniel, a former secret service agent, a
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security consultant as well. dan, looking at what's going on here, you have to ask the question, people often wonder, is it terrorism? a lone gunman? somebody seeking out revenge? can you tell anything from the sketchy details we have? >> very difficult at this stage, you summed up the categories what this could be. regardless what it is, the response is the same, liz. the active shooter scenario has completely changed the way police departments, law enforcement entities around the country respond to these things. years ago police set up a perimeter first, call a special weapons team in, a s.w.a.t.-type team to take care of the problem, that's not how law enforcement handles it anymore. they're taught the first person to respond, have you got to put down the shooter. they're interested not in negotiating, it's unfortunately in carnage. it looks like and everybody that the point, we're waiting for information to come in, looks like the information, the
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shooter appears to be down. the last guest was right. we don't know if there are multiple shooters or someone is hiding, they're going to do an exhaustive grid search to make sure the scenario is safe right now. liz: that makes a lot of sense. in the most recent shooting in chattanooga in july where four marines were killed, the suspect was killed by a local chattanooga police officer, and that person showed up, boom. they said i'm taking this into my own hands. does that then, daniel, mean we have to train our police force in a totally different way, instead of doing the set up the perimeter, make sure you are wearing the right body armor and go for the shooter? >> absolutely. you're seeing that as it permeates throughout the country and the globe, law enforcement responds to active shooter scenarios completely changed and brings up another valuable point as well, which is the importance of special
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weapons teams. these don't have to be full-time s.w.a.t. teams. you may have a local police department short personnel, you may have 20 police officers. but it's important to have a small portion, five or six officers trained in the special weapons tactics that have the accessibility, the equipment they need, shields, ballistic shields, heavier weapons to take on this type of horrible, tragic incident, without pistols and body armor. as we've seen, the people engaging in the active shooter scenarios -- >> they come ready. >> armed and ready, and they're not interested in negotiation, they're interested in carnage, there is only one way to stop it, with equal force. liz: the nypd has a counterterrorism unit called the hercules team, they're counterterrorism, used to this stuff. what you hear daniel saying is the nypd training all their officers to do exactly that?
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and again, it's more the smaller areas such as roseburg, oregon, who need to do what the chattanooga pd does, that is go in there and deal with it. >> yeah, the nypd is a rather unique organization in that it's the largest in the country, and has assets available locally to respond to these types of situations. clearly the officers, the initial responding officers will do just as the guest just mentioned. will not wait, will not set up a perimeter but it will be aided most likely with by emergency service personnel and other assets from the nypd. the nypd is a little different but i agree clearly throughout the country where there are fewer resources and response times are generally longer for s.w.a.t.-type teams that this will all change in that officers, local officers have to be engaged and trained to
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attempt to put an end to an active shooter and the soft targets and community resources is key. coordinating with the college in the event, and then of course going through exercises where the officers and the college and school become familiar with the grounds, that is immensely important during the chaotic situations. liz: let me update everybody, the associated press is reporting this, they're going with 7 at the moment, at least 7 people, that gives them room in case this horrifying situation does get worse. but the ap is saying at least 7 killed, 20 injured in the shooting, and the shooting, again, if you're just joining us at umpqua community college in roseburg, and gerri willis gave us important information, not just a campus of 3,000, they have another 16,000 part-time students. you can only imagine the population of this college in total chaos and extreme concern about what was going on.
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it's very much a timber industry town here we're talking about. it's a small, quiet community but a community that is not unfamiliar with guns. there are a lot of hunters in the region, and that's why i think it's a shock for some people there who feel this is a community that is understanding of the use of guns. but here comes a shooter who walks right in at 10:45 a.m. pacific and systematically goes, see the buildings on the screen? building to building to building, casing the classroom, shooting whoever was in his way. the update only that we have for you is the shooter has been incapacitated. he's been taken into custody. don't know alive/dead at the moment. we don't have information about the weapon itself. what could you surmise, and i hate putting you in this position because you hate being in this position, dan, what can we surmise about a weapon where
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10, 7, 15 people were killed with packed classrooms during the morning session? would it not be a semiautomatic? a .9 millimeter? any guess here? >> well, it likely was not a pistol. a bullet's going to do damage regardless what barrel it comes out of. but the people, if you look at historically the research here on what weapons are used in these, setimes they're rifles, and there's usually a pistol the backup, these people are armed to do maximum carnage. given that amount of time, liz, even with a pistol, someone who is hell-bent on usg carnage can cause a lot of damage, regardless of the round or the rifle or the pistol they have, and that's why -- the secret service research on this by the way has been exhaustive on school shootings. one of the things they fount found out, this is not a political statement, this is agnostic research that says
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they tend to target the active shooter scenarios places where they think they'll be -- they call them gun-free-type zones, that's why you see them go where the students aren't armed or the staff isn't armed either. liz: that makes sense to bring up that point, we have somebody who specializes in university and classroom security. his name is dick solaway, he's the security chairman there. dick, right off the bat, i have to ask you, i don't know if you heard what daniel said, formerly with secret service, the shooters tend to target schools because they know the security is not good. what has to change today about that? yesterday even. >> we've been talking to government officials about
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creating a system like the tsa which was formed after 9/11 to prevent active shooters from getting into schools, and we prepared a document called the savi report which tells the schools how to protect themselves so active shooters can't run rampant through schools and others. liz: we have columbine, sandy hook, virginia tech, what are we learning and why does this continue to happen? >> you have active shooters and lockdowns every 13 days, you have a lot of people that act out -- hold on, hold on. liz: that's nationwide, every 13 days there's a scare like this? >> that's right. every 13 days there's a lockdown from a shooter either in the school or around the school and it's all documented. and we've been promoting the idea of let's create a group like the tsa created to prevent
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the bad guys from getting on planes, we need to prevent the bad guys from getting into schools. that security system has developed a whole program called savi, the school active vulnerability index, and it explains to schools how it will prevent the situations from happening and how to lock down schools. they've been creating the products for a number of years, a lot of schools have it, but most schools don't and it's available. people are just not -- they're not reacting fast enough, and the government should step in and create a savi index for the schools and make sure all the schools comply. liz: guys, we're getting some numbers in. an estimated 20 ambulances and 75 police cars. remember, this is a small town. roseburg has a population of 20,000. but 20 ambulances, 75 police cars, all kinds of police
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officials apparently rushed to the situation in their own vehicles, their own private cars, people off-duty began pouring into the area. we do know from one account, apparently there are at least six critically injured patients that have been sent in six helicopters. six helicopters descended upon the college to help aid and transport those victims and get them to the hospital. no word which hospitals they have been taken to. i'm sorry, go ahead, sir, i interrupted you. >> okay. so we need to create this association to prevent the active shooters from coming in. and things in schools like external protection, interior protection, what kind of lockdown or locking systems, and we want each of the schools to be rated and you do it with restaurants, where you give a's, b's and c's, do it with the tsa.
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schools are an open shooting ground for people that are deranged. liz: stand by one second. we need to get to washington, d.c. because our own blake burman has news out of washington, d.c. about the officials, the public officials and public politicians who are part of that district. blake? >> reporter: liz, we have been monitoring this over the last hour or so. pete defazio, a democrat from oregon represents that district there in the southwestern part of the state. he just released a statement moments ago, he says and i'm quoting here. today's shooting in roseburg is a heart-breaking tragedy and my thoughts and prayers wear the victims and families. i want to extend my deepest gratitude to roseburg's first responders for work in responding to the event. once we know more about what happened today, i plan to work with my colleague in congress to prevent tragedies such as these.
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i spoke with a member of defazio staff just moments before he issued the statement trying to see what the congressman might know and the staff member told me congressman defazio has been briefed on the situation. one might imagine it might be along the lines of talk to the police, the sheriff along those lines in that area. that he knows. i was told the information they have is fluid, liz, and one more tweet real quick. ron wyden who is the senator -- one of the senators from oregon tweeted out -- oregonians want everyone to know we are praying for them. liz: we apparently have a local newscast and reporters about to go on. all we have is a slate but the tv channel is kezi. this is a live stream here. e minute they start streaming from the location, takes a while to get there from the big cities, eugene is less gigantic than portland.
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when you're talking about 100 miles, trying to get to the scene. the minute they get that. we will have the first live stream for you. kezi is the channel we are waiting on. i want to get back to jose cordero, 21 years in nypd. as we were hearing this, this just happened, 10:45 pacific time in the morning, 1:45 p.m. eastern time. it's very, very fresh here, is it not? what's happening with law enforcement. >> yeah, obviously, they're doing the searches and continuing the search for potential victims as well as, you know, anyone else that could be involved in this tragic event. i'm also sure that if the suspect is down, they have his or her identity, and then you have a very active investigation going on with respect to the person's background, any affiliations he or she may have to any groups
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that we're not aware of, trying to get a motive as well as making sure that there are no other surprises for first responders or police or someone else to the places he or she may frequent. this is not only an on-scene situation, not only an evacuation and securing those who may be holding up. and the classroom has an outside investigation. you spoke about the number of responders to such small community, allow the off-duty first responders, firefighters, that speaks to just the courage and the dedication that we see when these types of events occur across our nation. our first responders put their personal safety aside to come to the aid of the people who need it most. and something that we just have to cherish and something we have to recognize more often than we do. liz: we're hearing that the police are now clearing the science building at this point. this is a cluster of buildings
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at this campus, the umpqua community college campus south of eugene, oregon, in roseburg, oregon. they're clearing the science building and i want to go to -- look, this is a community college, fewer students, we're hearing from gerri willis it could be as many as 18,000 total with part-time and full-time students. the first thing anybody watching who runs a university, a college, a high school, an elementary school should be doing today, dick, as they see this? >> technology exists. napco developed the technology to take care of active shooters before they get into a school. it's a wonderful thing, everybody is responding and everybody is working together, but the problem is you don't want these people in the schools. so napco. liz: let me interrupt you,
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we're getting the very first video pictures here, you can see the sheriff's department pulling in and away. they do have all kinds of barricades up to keep people away from the college. they've got public school bus these have come to the region to evacuate students from the umpqua community college. people are rushing, if you can tell, there are nervous members of family and perhaps residents who are waiting to see what happened. we got some of our most detailed versions of what happened from residents, houses across the street from the school. we have one resident who reportedly said she heard a couple of shots and the next thing you knew very quickly thereafter, many, many police cars showed up. at last count we have 75 police cars that rushed to the scene, even police officers who came in their own personal vehicles. they were off-duty. they rushed to that scene. i want to now go back to dan bongino, the secret service expert.
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as we wait, i'm less interested in the identified the gunman, i would like to know the motivation. we don't want to make a star of the murderers. how should we treat, in the news, these nefarious, evil people who do this? >> it's a tough business here. liz: tough call. >> yeah, of course, because also the coverage alone, there's the fear of copycat-style attacks. i think the best we can do now is say what can we learn from this? i've done a number of hits on your network as a matter of fact on soft targets, schools, movie theaters, places we've seen the active shooter attacks. here's what listeners can take from this. couple of things, if you own a business, it could be a soft target, a local stadium, a school. have blueprints, have blueprints online and have them available. you may say why? when you look at shootings like the nairobi mall shooting, what
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happened was the local military and law enforcement responded had no blueprints for the building, the owner didn't have the blueprints and shockingly they couldn't get online to see the blueprints because there was so much internet traffic googling the shooting. so have the blueprints ready so if law enforcement, and god forbid and luckily these are exceedingly rare, you want these available on the phone and hard blueprints in an off-site location to give to the cops to say here's the building, here's what it looks like on the inside do, your thing. liz: that is excellent advice. >> one more thing, video cameras are very cheap now. remember, now once this is secured, first stop the shooter, then secure the scene, then all of a sudden this turns into a crime scene, it has to be methodically gone through, things like video cameras which are unbelievably cheap, the technology is cheap for video cameras, there is no excuse not to have it. it's for your safety and everyone else's so after the
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fact, we can see what happened, we can see the techniques used. liz: oregon officials say no more threat, they're putting this out right now. no more threat. so they are convinced that there was a single shooter. that shooter has been incapacitated. no more threat. gerri willis in the newsroom, what do you have? >> i want to give a little context to the conversation you're having right now. we talk about shooters, we talk about active shooters, there's a lot of concern about all the shooting that's been done at higher education institutions. get this. fbi statistics show there were 12 episodes of active gunman at higher education institutions from 2000 to 2013, resulting in 60 deaths and 60 wounded. that gives you context here. between 2000 and 2013, 12 episodes of active gunmen at higher education institutions, 60 killed, 60 people wounded. since the virginia tech
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shooting in 2007, 8 active shooter incidents. that's 2008-2013. one person other than the shooter was killed. this gives you context. this is becoming more common. there's a sense of that, i know for sure, and certainly the statistics bear it out. one other fact here they think is relevant. since the virginia tech in 2007, there have been 18 shooting incidents on america's college campuses where at least one person was killed. of those seven took place in 2015. we have something of a ramping up in the incidences of violence on college campuses. liz: that's true, we could also bring in the mass shooting on june 17 at the emanuel african episcopal church in charleston, south carolina, at the marine base in chattanooga. >> on and on it goes.
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liz: yes, i will say this. this will be part of the conversation at presidential election and leading up to it. donald trump has been asked about it, he said we've got to do more about preventing mentally disturbed people like the shooter who murdered the newscaster just a couple of weeks ago, you know, that kind of situation where disturbed people are able to get guns. if you can't be a candidate who can come out and at least talk about this issue, you may not be the person that america wants in charge of our nation, or perhaps this will be some type of pushback as we know, the nra tends to come through in the wake of these situations to ramp up their side of it. so at this point, it's 30 minutes before the top of the hour. if you are just joining us, we need to reset this. the numbers are floating at the moment.
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we've heard 7 dead to 15 dead. nothing yet absolutely confirmed by the sheriff's department, but regardless one single life is enough. 20 wounded at umpqua community college at roseburg, oregon. this situation happened by the minute starting at 10:45 a.m. pacific time. 1:45 p.m. eastern, and immediately we had a lot of officials show up. police, 75 police cars, ambulances descended upon the scene and relatively shortly thereafter news came out, the shooter, a single shooter, lone shooter was incapacitated. no word on the condition of that shooter. the video is just outside this community college which has 3,000 full-time students, another 16 part-time students, south of eugene, oregon, further south of portland, oregon. the county is douglas county. the shooter entered going from classroom-to-classroom, building-to-building, shooting
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and shooting, at least 20 injured, we don't know if that's in addition to those killed. this is a small town, city of 20,000 people. 260 miles south of portland. 100 miles inland from the coast of the pacific and at the moment, the only new good news we can bring you is officials have said no more threats. back to dick soloway. sir, i got to say this, we don't want to make this a commercial abo anybody's business, you are in the business of securing colleges. dan said cameras are cheap. should every single school have cameras, and should they be live cameras that feedback to a central server? >> every school should have cameras, there have been actually 44 school shootings and killings since newtown, connecticut. liz: 44? >> 44. as i said, it's every 13 days.
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you want to prevent them from getting into the school with access control, and cameras are great, but that's after the fact. you want to keep them outside. you don't want them coming through back doors, gym doors, where people smoke. you don't want them to actively walk through into the classrooms. you don't want them to go from building to building, and the technology exists, napco developed it. 500 schools have it. we're trying to get it implemented across the country. a lot of resistance, but really shouldn't be, because the insurance companies will give discounts to the schools and universities if they have a school lockdown system. liz: you mentioned newtown, connecticut, that was the sandy hook elementary school shooting. we're coming up on the third anniversary of that horrific situation. 20 children were shot and killed. 6 adults, staff members, shot and killed, lives derailed, changed forever, and again, when we talk about what's going
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on here, we don't know the motivation of the shooter, jose. you at nypd, how important is something like that in the wake of a shooting? >> the motivation is important. not only because you have to make sense of what happened, and how that may impact or -- whether it's a single event or impacts something larger than that. again, it helps to speak to how do you prevent these things in the future? as you were talking about earlier about having people with mental disabilities armed with guns? is that the case? is it disgruntled student who has access to the college? so all the preventive systems wouldn't have worked to prevent that person from coming in and doing what he or she did. liz: let me ask all of you, this representative peter king of new york whose father was a police officer is one
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republican who feels that automatic weapons should not be available for the general public because of the damage they can do. he was eviscerated by his own party. he was excoriated. listen, dan, secret service, how do you feel about something like that? >> well, automatic weapons, by the standard definition are currently unavailable to the general opinion. you need a level 3 federal permit to get one. general public can't buy automatic weapons. >> maybe he meant semi. >> semiautomatic, sometimes they're referring to assault rifle. liz: yes, that's, it that's it. i'm sorry, my apologies. >> it's a fair enough conversation, not everybody is a gun expert or expert in the nomenclature of a weapon. my issue with being a secret service agent and nypd, the only deterrent to a
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psychopathologist sadly, liz, is another armed individual. i'm not suggesting it's not a fair conversation, a great question you asked, i'm not sure that's going to make a difference. i think the conversation has to be more about what do we do to prevent and to stop these things as a force on force scenario? because the people are going to get the weapons no matter what. we don't know how the person got the weapon. >> the weapons are already out there. we have to prevent the crazy people from getting into the schools. you do it at the airport. you process millions and millions of people. you can process at schools. some schools that are advanced like pepperdine university, have installed complete systems to prevent these people from getting. in many schools are doing that. but the majority are not yet and the only way to do it is to get legislation passed such that you have metal detectors, you have a vestibule you have to come through, people are
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checked out, even if the student -- >> if it didn't happen after newtown where 20 tiny kids, little ones, five years old, kindergartners were killed, you really expect that will happen now, dick? >> i think the government should call a committee together, have napco there, we have a lot of experience with it. we're a public company, doing this for many years, we could really help out and put together a program, it will be just as tight as at the airport. liz: dan, do we need armed guards? that was another big discussion. armed guards at schools, it's a very emotional discussion to have. >> it's a fair one and i understand parents' hesitations about having weapons around their children. that's why i believe and am sure viewers and listeners will as well, it's up to local parents to make that decision. what i don't think we should
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have is a ban against armed guards in schools, whether it be political pressure to not do, it parents should be free to make that decision, i can't say this in strong enough termis and know the politics gets intermeshed in it. it's one of tactical facts i've seen on the ground as a cop and special agent with the secret service. the only thing that's going to deter these people, sadly, is another trained person with a weapon. there is very little that you're going to do to stop that. liz: okay, stand by one second, i need to get to gerri willis, she's in the newsroom with more details. gerri? >> more context, backgrounds on the shootings. this year we've had 45 school shootings this year, including k-12 and colleges, that's continuing to happen. also, you have the sense here that the number of active school shootings rising? you're right.
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average of 11.4 incidents each year from 2000 to 2006, there were 6.4, i say just 6.4, when you hear the numbers from 2007-2013, 16.4 incidents each and every year. so the frequencsee definitely increasing, and, of course, as you've been reporting, we're hearing that more people are being taken to hospital now. many people en route as we continue to report this tragedy, but liz, i'll tell you, i'm shocked at the numbers here, when you stand back and look, it's tragic. liz: that's exactly the issue that will probably be much discussed in the wake once we get more detail what's going on. by the way, we do actually have some, and i stress slightly better news because there's still quite a fog over the story. at the moment, the sheriff's department in roseburg is reporting, they're calling it at least 7 killed.
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the initial numbers, you may remember, and again these things get blown up or then diminished, but the initial number was 20. we're hearing now at least 7. so could be more but at least they're not saying at least 20, but 20 were definitely injured. that's what we're looking at in the city of roseburg, oregon at umpqua community college with 20 minutes to go before the top of the hour. that's the aerial shot of that community college with about a total of 18,000 both full-time and part-time students and immediately after this situation began at 10:45 a.m. pacific was when the first shots were reported, and shortly thereafter, but not soon enough, the shooter was incapacitated. at least 7 dead. we have former nypd commissioner bernard kerik on the phone now. what can you tell us? >> i'm following the story just as you are.
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i would think, i assume there was a confrontation between the police and the shooter and that's what ended this. you know, and something that's really important here, this goes to the planning and preparation and practice and the crisis management response capabilities of law enforcement agencies around the countries -- around the country, preparing for active shooters, this is one of many of these types of incidents we have seen over the last year and a half, two years, i think they'll continue. so i think it's extremely important to see what the cops did in this circumstance and make sure that our local and state first responders have the training to do something like this. liz: you are listening to bernie kerik, former nypd commissioner. you have two of your former
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officers, dan bongino and jose cordero as well. the three of you have faced serious situations over your entire career. what we have been talking about, mr. kerik, is that from now on does, every university, every elementary school, every high school have to have something in place that can deal with an active shooting situation in. >> liz, listen, it's not just the schools. i mean, look, we live in a world today where there's constant threat of terrorism, whether it's isis or al qaeda or some radical lunatic, and we don't have any details on this yet, but at the end of the day, what are the targets where there's a number of people? schools, malls, hospitals. you have to look at what the guys do abad, what do they do in iraq? they walk to a ballroom where there's 150 people having a wedding. liz: a wedding, yeah. >> things like that.
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that's what we have to be prepared for. my son is a police officer in newark, new jersey. he's on the newark s.w.a.t. team. these guys are constantly training for the active shooter scenarios, and i think every agency in this country, you know, if the federal government supports the local and state law enforcement groups, one thing they can do is get them the resources with the backup training they need to respond to incidents like this because they're not going to decrease, they're not going away. liz: not going away, bernie one of the things we were discussing before you joined us on the line, and thank you for doing so. the rank and file police officers have to be taught that the whole old school way of we arrive, set up a perimeter and rush in and try and find the guy, that has to go out the window and the first person on the scene has to go after the shooter because these people are there to cause carnage. do we have to rethink our training of all police departments in america? >> yeah, and i think we are.
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i can't talk for the rest of the country. i will say in new york city, a number of the different departments in jersey that i'm aware of, that's the training that's going out now. have you patrolmen, parotrolwomn and they have to do scenarios that weren't thought of 20, 25 years ago, they were so far-fetched, nobody thought it would happen. today that's a different story. from the initial originating officer that gets to the scene, you know, right down to the s.w.a.t. team, the ert, esu, whatever you call them that's going to back them up, it's a whole new set of training operations that have to be put in place for these guys respond. liz: let me just interrupt you, sir. this is our first live picture. it's at a hospital. let's put it that way. a hospital in roseburg, oregon
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where at least six people had to be transferred, not specifically to this hospital but area hospitals, just backing up a bit as soon as this happened, you had mass response. we had police officers from neighboring communities rushing in, in their own vehicles to help. you had at least 20 ambulances and 4 helicopters who descended on the school to transport the wounded. again, the number we're going with right now from the sheriff's department and police, 7 dead, 20 hurt. in this community college of umpqua in roseburg, oregon. those are our first live pictures. gentlemen, please stand by. we want to go to d.c. blake burman has news about the president being briefed. blake? >> reporter: we were waiting for this to come in, we have word from a white house official president obama has been briefed on the shooting. he was briefed by his homeland security adviser alyssa monaco
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at the shooting at ucc, the president's request he will continue to receive updates throughout the day. this would be at least the second briefing of the day by monaco to the president we learned that monaco briefed the president on the hurricane that's out there on the atlantic, but the unfortunate briefing as well this afternoon that we are learning of, president obama saying he wants to be kept abreast throughout the day of what is going on in oregon. liz: we saw one victim live being moved in, this is courtesy of kval in oregon. it didn't appear they were rushing. that makes some people nervous, perhaps it was somebody deceased, we know 7 have been killed, 7-10. 20 injured by a lone gunman. what blake was referring to was the other situation that is bearing down currently on perhaps the coastline in the next couple of days. hurricane joaquin is now a category 4, at least two states, north carolina and new
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jersey have emergency states of emergency in place. but we want to let you know we're staying with the situation. yes, the dow jones industrials is down 54 points. a little red on the screen, but human life we believe is way more important here. there's a bay city ambulance pulling up or perhaps departing outside this local highway. back to bernard kerik. do you get a sense that the next steps for law enforcement are to broaden this discussion, this conversation about what really needs to be done, and we put it as starting yesterday? >> you know what? this is an ongoing thing, liz, the first thing that's going to happen is the advocates talking about gun control. that's a constant discussion whether it's a state-by-state discussion or a washington discussion. but the reality is whether you have gun control, a lunatic with a bomb or whatever else
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there may be. we need to make sure our first responders can respond, that they have the ability, the resources, the training to respond and make sure that they're constantly practicing and planning and preparing for things like this. you know in the aftermath of 9/11, people asked how we put together the response so quickly at ground zero. we didn't think of it that day. that planning had been going on on since 1995, 1996, weekly, monthly, table top exercises, mock drills, things like that. that's what has to happen at local and state police agencies across the country. i think they're getting used to it, doing it. i think they have to keep an effort on it. liz: anybody who lives in new york city knows the drills are constant. every once in a while you'll see no less than 25 police cars, suvs, emergency vehicles
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charging up sixth avenue, charging down the west side highway. what happened? what happened? nothing, they're practicing, getting ready for this. i give props to columbus, ohio. the s.w.a.t. team does the exact same thing. i lived there and we would constantly watch the s.w.a.t. team practicing, learning, they would go to israel and learn from israeli officials how to pull these things off. >> right. liz: let me reset for a moment though because the number does matter. it had been 15-20. we're hearing 7-10 have been murdered by a lone gunman who started charging onto the community college umpqua in roseburg, oregon at 10:45 a.m. west coast time, 1:45 eastern time. tweets i'm praying my sister is okay, i have never been so scared. obviously, perhaps her sister
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is a student. jose, you've been listening in to the conversation, 21 years with the nypd. looking at the response, does it look appropriate to you? >> it does. we don't have a lot of shots and a lot of information about how that was executed but the fact of the matter that the shooter was brought down and under control is always a very positive thing. you know, on the other side, there were a number of people that may have been killed, i don't know the exact number and injured, it kept the rest in the classroom. how long did it take to bring the shooter down in the tremendous response that involved not only on-duty but off-duty folks from all levels of government, that is significant, and certainly helped, i would argue, to actually sprent other people from becoming victims of crime, of the shooting.
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and i would also argue, and pretty much said by the other guests. soft targets, they are increasingly becoming targets for whatever reasons, people motivated by different reasons and we really need to start to take a good look not just at the response after the event, but how do we keep these people out? not only with technology, there has to be a serious discussion about we have armed police officers protecting the public at large, but when we have children in classrooms, they have nowhere to go in the event something goes wrong from an active shooter. we have no assets locally to protect them. that needs to be rethought. the discussion needs to be a broader discussion, there are different opinions about this, but clearly the focus should be on protecting our young, our students and young children. liz: i want to give a little clarification, according to some reports that they had the hospitals nearby activating trauma response teams immediately. they cleared all elective surgeries the minute this news
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hit the tape. only comparable incident for which an entire hospital was mobilized in the area was back in 1998 during, yes, a high scho shootg. thurston high school shoot wearing two people were killed. going back to 1998. the area high school called these officials have seen this before. bo dietl, is former new york city police department detective. also fox news contributor. bo, we were speaking with bernie kerik, dan and former secret service, nypd. about what happens with security on so-called soft targets. what would you do if you were called in to any school in the nation? >> i mean these are things we do for assessment. a lot of people are negative having firearms on campus all of that, this proves again you have to have some sort of deterrent, some sort of weaponry to combat
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these situations. we're talking about a small college, 3,000 student in the middle of a very rural area. this can happen anywhere. talking about the hospital, i mean we're in a time right now where we have to plan for anywhere in america, for something happening. doesn't have to be terrorists from isis colling in. but you have these psychopathic people want to kill people. you have to be able to deal with this you can only tighten up so much. we have the drills in effect. you have to have lockdown rules in the classroom. there are some avenues of security measures we deal with every day. this ising that will happen around, in places that you can't believe where it will happen, the fact that you just can't be safe anywhere now. with this happening you think of your child growing to college in this -- liz: nice place. >> you could see here, maybe one of the big colleges.
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you can understand it happening but a small college like this, you think your child is completely safe. it is very scary. just shows you it can happen anywhere. and again, i'm a big proponent of having law enforcement, former law enforcement people who are armed, who can any kind of situation, deterrent with weaponry you can shoot. you can't have unarmed security guard. what is he going to do? liz: hold on a second, about o. -- bo. fox has helicopter hovering over the campus from kptv. the shooter went from building to building, to building. very, very jam-packed parking lots. a lot of the people there had to be evacuated. they brought in school buses and immediately evacuated a lot of those buildings because they did not know at the moment whether that gunman was a lone gunman. they have cleared it and said the threat, there is no more threat. the threat is done, they have
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shooter incapacitated. of course that shooter is in custody. we don't know the condition of the shooter you about the number we're going with, seven to 10 murdered by that gunman. another 20 who were shot/injured. we don't know extend of those injuries. some may have been injured trying to escape or hide. people will do anything to save their lives in these situations. they will jump out of windows from three, four stories up, correct bernie. we can't figure out exactly what the injuries at the moment. >> no, liz. two things i want to say. one, the response i'm hearing about, and witnessing right you now, you know, this thing they brought in buses, that stuff didn't happen on moment as notice i promise you. this was stuff probably planned out over time, different, different, planning and practicing over time. you have to give kudos to the
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police department for the response. liz: absolutely, yes. >> the second thing is, bo mentioned something, we're talk about getting people on campuses at schools, armed security, police officers. i have met with school officials who, they want the protection. they want somebody there. they need somebody there. they admit they knee somebody there but they don't want the perception. they don't want, you know, almost like political correctness. we don't want that perception. we don't want that image. guess what? whether you want it or you don't want it, reality is, personally, i want my kids protected. you know what i mean? i don't care about perception or political correctness. if something happens i want somebody there that will be able to respond immediately. liz: i think of our coverage, i think of our coverage in davos, switzerland, very, very beautiful, tiny swiss alp town where the swiss guard is there with machine guns okay?
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it makes us feel great because they're there. you can see now the camera is zooming in. they are letting some people leave. they have also the responders who are there, coursing through probably checking every single vehicle. you can see in the lower left part there is probably a weapon or bomb-sniffing dog. as the picture is slightly herky-jerky coming from the helicopter of kptv. we thank you them very much. weep keep it up as possibly we can. from the state attorney general of oregon, quote, our hearts go to entire roseburg community, particularly the families of victims for this unspeakable tragedy. how important our law enforcement and medical community is. thank you osp, douglas county sheriff, roseburg police. she offered any support that the oregon department of justice can provide to roseburg community in the future. that is exactly what you're
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talking about, bernie? >> that is exactly right. we run into these scenarios around the country where people bash police, you know, they broad brush them in negative manner somehow. i have to tell you on a day like this, you have to look at work these men and women do. you have to look at courage that they are out there with. i mean, you know there is most people, 97, 99% of the people do their job especially on a day like today. you have to give them thanks and give them the kudos they deserve. liz: 1,000% especially considering so many of them off-duty, jumped in their own personal vehicles rushed to the scene at great, great danger to themselves. you can see police tape around some of those buildings at this campus, umpqua community college changed today forever by a lone gunman who shot at least seven people, killed them, wounding many others.
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physically and psychological damage yet to be seen. that will do it for "countdown to the closing bell." i want to hand the story over to david and melissa. it is a continuing story at moment, guys. david: we'll pick up where you left off, liz. melissa: thank you so much. breaking news as you know, a gunman opens fire at a community college in southwestern oregon. there are conflicting reports of the death toll. oregon state police saying seven to 10 dead. other reports saying it could be as many as 15 dead, 20 injured. we are working to confirm all of this right now. david: it all began at 10:38 a.m. pacific time, 1:38 eastern time in the afternoon. umpqua community college, it is in roseburg, oregon. as liz was saying very small community. the college itself, just about 3,000 students. this is a place 67 miles away from eugene, oregon. 100 miles, a little more from the california state border. the college is now being evacuated. s.w.a.t. teams are moving from
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building to building though authorities say the lone gunman has been taken down. we don't know whether he is alive or dead. melissa: no, we don't. gerri willis joins us. she has latest details as we know them. >> that's right, melissa. still no word how many might have died in this tragic, tragic shooting. now being told by the sheriff's office seven to 10. there is little narrowing on the number but we don't have a real number yet. as you know, david basically broke down the timeline how this all went down, starting at 10:35 west coast time, 1:35 east coast time. in the interim, the shooter going from room to room, classroom to classroom, shooting indiscrimminantly and ultimately a tweet from one of the students, who said this, students are running everywhere. holy god. so now the situation under control. the shooter, in custody, as i understand it, we don't know the


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