tv Making Money With Charles Payne FOX Business November 14, 2015 6:00pm-7:01pm EST
now, we're live with our very young studio audience to react to the republican debate. are you ready? [ cheering and applause ] >> because i'm a libertarian, we'll tackle this from a libertarian perspective. which presidential candidate would be most likely to leave us safe, prosperous, and free? that's our show tonight on a special edition of "stossel." [ cheering and applause ]
i'm glad that fox business people finally got to ask questions tonight because we got to hear a serious discussion of stuff that really matters out of control government spending. regulation that no one understands. bank bailouts. government setting minimum wages and so on. our studio audience watched the debate, sometimes laughing i noticed. they can vent about who made sense and who didn't. our panel is the roy murdoch of national review, a libertarian, but more war hawkish than i am. she specializes in health policy. he's young, but knows these issues, most of them better than i do. let's start with you. who sounded good to you? >> i don't think any of them
sounded really great, to be honest john. they were talking about fiddling with the codes, but the idea behind the free market is no one knows how to live someone's life better than them. they sounded a lot like rand paul was talking six months ago, why is it all of a sudden we have sort of a singular idea about how to control the tax code and the guy who came up with that guy is the one they're ignoring? there's a problem in the republican party about what kind of a message that really want to send. >> i'm going to disagree a little bit. i think we see a broad cast of characters on the stage. there's very few who can be the leading man or the leading lady. >> who is out now? who are the supporting role people? >> it is going to be hard for people to jump back in from the earlier debate tonight, but i think governor jindal and governor christie did a good job
in that debate. mike huckabee and the other participa participants in the first debate, they're really polling too low. at this point they may not have a path to the nomination. >> roy? >> i think we saw a lot of talent up there. i thought in particular marco rubio came across very, very clearly. his answers seemed to be able to involve his economic ideas, his thoughts on education on international relations. i think his star power is very strong. >> i heard marco rubio support from you folks. is that -- [ cheering and applause ] >> the one thing i see missing in all these debates is one very clear break out idea. everyone was talking about the 99 tax plan. it was on the edge of people's tongues. i'm not seeing any idea jump out
where people say i like this idea, i dislike this idea. i'm not seeing that kind of a breakthrough. >> marco rubio is jumping out, but i have some problems. rand paul brought up a couple. how can you call yourself a conservative and want to spend a trillion more on the military and do social engineering on the tax code? >> i'm very concerned about the rise of marco rubio. he's the jeb bush in the race of what jeb bush was supposed to be. he wants to spend a trillion more dollars on the military. we would have to be shooting down russian jets. everyone knows the iraq war was a complete failure. why don't we just elect the bush family because at least then we get the dynasty? >> and rand brought some of that up about the no fly zone, but the republicans are very
hawkish. they didn't pick up on it, and deroy, you agree with them. >> i'm not everybody. look, what we've seen under obama is this leap from behind concept. the leap from behind concept has brought us isis, russia and crim crimea. this country really internationally has become a laughing stock because the idea of american leadership and american preimmineneminence hav been demolished by this president. >> rand paul called hillary clinton what she was, which was a neo-con war hawk. >> they don't care for him. the audience wasn't impressed by them. we have a war hawk right here. isis was also created by our
intervening in iraq. >> i disagree with that. it was relatively calm and stable. obama decided it was more important to pull people out than succeed in iraq. it looks as if they have blown up a plane with a bunch of civilians on it. >> just one more. the islands in china, these are barely above sea level. obama's so upset about them, but according to him, global warming is going to erase these things anyway. why is that our business? they're building these islands. we have to police the other end of the world? >> look, if things stay calm with china, that's not a problem. if things become more tense, it might be a good idea to close off some sea lanes. that becomes a problem for commerce. again, you have a country like china, that may decide let's beat our chest and put the americans in their place, if you
will, and that's something that propounds very negatively for our country and all the people in this studio and all the people at home watching. >> spending. what did you hear about spending? we're going broke. >> first of all, i was disappointed that none of the candidates corrected the premise that tax reductions cost money. we want to do tax reform. we want to reduce taxes. that comes with a cost. how should you pay for that? >> supply argues if you cut the tax, there will be so much more economic activity. probably isn't fully going to happen. >> i think that's why i think it is important for candidates to be specific about how they would reduce spending. >> very little. >> it just troubles me to see someone, for example, like governor kasich from ohio who increased per capita spending while he was governor there.
someone's record speaks much louder than their words. expanding medicaid is another assault of his that he expanded. putting more people dependent on the government when it comes to health insurance. that doesn't seem like a very fiscally conservative thing to do. >> i agree. i found him very annoying tonight, kasich. but in his defense, there is this survey which compares what governors did year by year, so you're not based on an expansion or a depression. kasich was second. christie and huckabee were the worst in increasing spending. he may have increased it, but compared to what else was going on he wasn't so bad. >> we ve tay aenti to e feeralolla th hetook rom oh to expand medicaid because those are taxpayer dollars as well.
it's just robbing peter to pay paul. it wasn't a decrease in overall spending. >> i thought kasich came across in terms of his appearance better than recent debates. >> really? >> just in terms of his presentation. >> who agrees with him? >> no. rl eet lor xp te oof mht bishego stage. >> marco rubio said we need to subsidize families. if you have families are a good thing, those are the values we have to exemplify.
>> as much as i like rubio, i completely agree with austin on is that. get the tax rates as low as possible. they can decide to have children or not and get the government out of using the u.s. tax code. >> we could fill it out ourselves instead of having to figure out our child code. but you, who likes rubio, what about him supporting the subs y subsidies for sugar? >> i can't defend that at all. it doesn't cost that much money, but in terms of the destruction it creates environmentally and economically, if you're in a haiti, we'll buy a small amount. that's it. we don't want anymore. enjoy your poverty for another 11 months. it's an awful program. >> let's not let ted cruz off the hook. while he was private attorney in
texas, he wanted the stimulus there. >> big driver of our bankruptcy is entitlement. we didn't hear much about that. it's just not a political winner for these guys. >> no hardly at all. you have some candidates like huckabee and trump who say absolutely we can't touch these. maybe they don't recognize the status quo is a train headed off the tracks. maybe changing some things like the retirement age and tweaking these programs would slow the train down, put the brakes on, but we need to jump to another track. we need to give younger workers the opportunity toheir the soc disability program is going to go bankrupt next year.
nobody is talking about the fact this major entitlement is gieoi to go broke next year. >> maybe they don't know. >> nobody wants to talk about the fact that the disability program will run out of money next year. >> if you talk about making changes to these programs, senior citizens will get nervous and this will hurt you politically. >> one of the solutions they like to offer is let's just raise the retirement age for social security. why don't we raise the pension age, collection age for federal employees instead? >> let's do both. coming up, our studio audience takes on the debaters. i'll give a couple of answers i wish a candidate gave. that and more when we come back.
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polling quite a bit, but i say polls are garbage. no, that's not fair. they're mostly done by good polling companies and they're interesting, but when it comes to predicting election results, polls are not nearly as useful as prediction markets. prediction markets are things like the stock market and commodities exchanges. they're the most accurate predictors of future events because lots of people participate and guess and they put their own money on the line. today's price is the best reflection of what the future will bring. it's not perfect, but it's better than polls. in america no good prediction market exists for politics, and that's because foolish republicans banned internet gambling, so the only real prediction market that works is based in england. it's called bet fair. useful as it is to us americans, it is basically unintelligible.
the prices are in pounds. look at this website. this is understandable. we americans caprocs th. asou s, hilry lint is he vorito winhe democratic primary. on the right, you see she's a 53% favorite to become our next president. in the middle is the betting on who will win the republican primary. marco rubio is the big favorite. not poll-leading donald trump or ben carson. trump comes in second, then cruz, bush, carson, and the others. my first rand paul near the bottom. you can check these odds on my website at johnstossel.com. they update every five minutes. since the debate began, rand paul is up a little, so i can still hope. the betting, do you not agree,
do you agree? the betting is more accurate than the polls? >> i think it is. when you back at prior election cycles you can see the people who were leading the polls at this time did not end up being close to the nominee. they'retes. by state. it's a lot different than taking a national poll. >> the first comment from a candidate at the debate that made me want to scream was this from donald trump. >> i can't be neil. and the reason can't be is we are a country that's being beaten on every front economically, militarily. there's nothing that we do now to win. we don't win anymore. >> we're being beaten economically. what does this even mean? >> they say america is the greatest country in the world, yet we're far behind china. i think he speaks at a third grade level, which is what gets
a lot of people to support him. i think that if you look at what donald trump is doing, it's brilliant because he's actually breaking through the barriers and getting people interested in politics. why he may be politically -- >> but in a bad way. >> he is politically incorrect and his politics are incorrect, but he's slayed the beast of political correctness. >> economics is not war. we don't lose to china when they sell us stuff. >> the political correctness victory at what cost? when you look at credentials, first of all he doesn't have a record in his office and his recorded statements and books, we can't tell if this guy is for universal health care, if he is pro-choice, pro-life. where does he stand? in terms of trade, he's a prote protectionist. >> he's going to make america great again. it's going to be huge. >> exactly. >> he does talk about america
losing to china. look around your house. almost everything you buy is made in china. >> is that a loss? >> no, this is a very positive thing. what he does capture is the sense of economic stagnation and economic anxiety where the economy is not growing much. people get the sense they're not going to be able to save up money for retirement. the average american has $1,000 in retirement savings or something. >> on social media, i made a comment about trump having no clue. on facebook i had a response, he has $10 milli10 billion. they don't give you billions for being stupid. john, how much do you have? >> just because his father gave him a million and he bet on real estate and made a ton doesn't make him intelligent about economics. >> trump owns a company that has products manufactured overseas.
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question of just what the spending is, but are we going to present ourselves as a country that is a leader and that is respected around the world. >> how are you going to pay for it? >> or are we going to be in a posture right now where we're getting laughed at? >> how are you going to pay for it? >> i think what we do is we consider defense spending the number one priority, which it should be under the constitution. we have a lot of other spending we shouldn't be doing. the entire farm program ought to be shut down. >> you're going to shut it down. it would barely dent the fence, which is 1/5 of the budget. farm program is $100 billion. it should be shut down. >> i heard discussion from carly fiorina about zero-based budgeting. you spent 40 billion last year. we'll give you another 5 billion on top of that and it just keeps growing and growing and growing.
>> i'm getting nowhere on this. i'm glad we heard sensible things. marco rubio said you raise the minimum wage, we'll make people more expensive than machines. finally, some people being articulate on this point. >> he can say that. because what happens when you raise the minimum wage, all the people who are unemployed who are unskilled, they're unable to get jobs because they're not able to get into the marketplace. but people who don't have job skills, they're not able to get that job because the employer just can't find a place to meet them halfway. >> even republican voters say, yeah, we ought to raise the minimum wage. >> santorum is for raising that federal minimum wage. >> a lot of this is magic wand waving. look, we can put in at mcdonald's, for example, rather
than have someone take your order, have a machine take your order. you go to drugstores. there's machines so you can do your own check out. you go to the airport. you check yourself in. this is automation and robotics. you'll see more of that as the cost of labor goes up. >> marco rubio was asked a different question, but he went back to minimum wage because he wanted to address the minimum wage. that's different for a republican because they're typically on the defense when it comes to these income inequality questions. he had a fantastic answer. >> just remember a low-wage economy is much better than a no-wage economy. >> at least republicans are talking about free markets, sort of. in the debate, carly fiorina criticizing obamacare said this. >> we need to try to free market. the free market where people actually have to compete. >> and that would be the only answer to stop bankruptcy, but
americans don't think there should be a free market in medicine. do you want to pay for your own health care when you go to the doctor? no, you look for insurance coverage, right? that's hardly a free market. that's somebody else paying. >> what we have now is a system of multiparty payors. insurance companies have turned into third-party payors for every aspect. because the support of federal legislation, like obamacare, that mandates that each of us have this list of things covered by our health insurance, that supports the third-party nature of our system. some people think we can get rid of obamacare and do nothing to replace it. but the fact of the matter is if we go back to the world before obamacare, there was not a free market in health care then either. one of the important problems was the distortion. >> insurance with somebody else paying. >> right.
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[ applause ] in the presidenmost of the d legal immigration, but kasich and trump said we've got to build that wall. we're back with our panel. so, it's popular to say build a wall. and they can do it and mexico will pay for it. what's wrong with is that? >> yeah, that just goes to show if you're republican, you can push as much socialism as you want. if you say you want to build a wall, well, then you are guaranteed to get a vote. to me, it shows a fundamental
misunderstanding of the free market view. nobody wants to pay $10 for a cheese burger. when we have migrant labor, it definitely brings prices down. if you're for a free market, you have to be for free market and labor. >> that's why they hate us libertarians for this bizarre, oblique reasoning, but you ought to come here legally as trump said. amnesty is unfair to those in line. >> did the pilgrims come here leg legally? >> no, but it's different now. most of the illegals don't even come here from mexico or across the place where they would build a wall. >> i think trump's absolutely right on that score. my mom and dad are immigrants. they're from costa rica. they went to the u.s. embassy. they filled out the paperwork and they came through legally. >> they couldn't today. america makes it impossible.
>> we need to make legal immigration possible. i have a friend of mine from russia. he came in legally. he has spent something like $80,000 getting all his legal paperwork to get this situation where he's finally able to get a green card. we need to make legal immigration streamlined and make that make sense. we have to be fair to the people waiting in line, like my russian friend, and make sure they're treated fairly. >> right now, 130 years if you're a mexican teenager -- >> this issue divides them greatly. you could hear from the applause lines on either side. i think securing the border is something that gets applause whether or not you say specifically you're going to build a wall, but there are pro-growth opportunity republicans that favor immigration reform that would allow for my legal immigration
and growth in the labor supply. >> donald trump is more like his democratic opponent bernie sanders where they believe those immigrants are takie ining our . >> they paint the economy like a zero-sum pay. >> ben carson says he wants his 10% tax. it's inspired by god. in the bible in samuel 8:17, the jews want a king and the prophet says you don't want a king. he'll take 10% of your flocks. 10%. that was a threat then. now it's 40% total. >> can we vote for that king? >> god said give us a king and this was a warning to the israe israe israelites.
there are a lot of libertarian christians out there that believe in private charity and privatizing. i think ben carson has his heart in the right place. it may not be an economics textbook, but his heart is in the right place. >> 10% would be a great thing. it is just remarkable it's so different from what samuel considered horrible. >> actually, i've written about this. i did some rough figures on this. what if we had no tax plan and everybody paid in? what tax rate would you need to be revenue neutral? 9.8, 9.9%. we wouldn't have the tax code playing all sorts of games. you may get more in benefits than you put in. >> the tax foundation favors rubio's plan. >> in terms of economic growth that's absolutely correct
because they say not only will his tax plan change the individual rates, it's not a flat tax. it's not a fair tax. there's a progressive income scale for people based on their income. the rubio plan allows for some sole propriorershetorships to f. >> i don't like any of these tax plans, john, to be honest. they pass cigarette taxes to say we want to stop people from smoking. what are income taxes supposed to stop people from doing? making income. >> good line. in some countries they have a three-page or shorter form and it works. next, you, our audience, all students tonight, high school and college, you get to give your take on the debate.
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[ applause ] now, let's go to you for your comments. i'll start with twitter. best debate yet. actual policy questions asked. not ugly got-you questions like all the past debates. red meat monday said, put a sock in carly fiorina's mouth. yap, yap, yap. she's hillary in a skirt. >> boo. >> she did go past the bell, though. wasn't that rude? you have questions. who's first? go ahead, sir. >> what are your thoughts on the discussion that senators paul rubio and cruz had on the size of the u.s. military? what do you think the size of the u.s. military should look like, and what do you think our involvement should be in other countries? >> europe is free loading off us. it's too big. >> as i was saying during the break, this debate between liberty and security or how big the military should be is always present, but after the news
events this year, geciven the refugee situation in the middle east, the videos of the beheadings we saw, americans are favoring a larger military presence right now. >> oh, joy. yes. next. >> after criticizing and giving your opinions about the tax plans that the delegates gave, i mean candidates, what are your plans and what do you think you'd do to change it? >> if i was president of the united states, i would like to see a flat tax of 0%. >> come on. we need money to run government. >> would you have a value-added tax instead? >> i think a flat tax would probably be the best way to go because then we could all at least know how to do our taxes, but quite frankly i don't see much of a role for government in our lives beyond perhaps police, military, courts.
my tax plan pretty flat. >> who's next here? >> i'm the new york city chairman of the college republicans. i raise a question that's important to college students. would the federal government writing these blank checks for student loans, how do we alter a system at institutions of higher education? >> how many of you are getting a government check to pay for your school? a few of you. >> it's kind of hard to dial this back. i know the high interest rates that people are paying -- i remember part of the obamacare bill -- this is usually not talked about very much but nationalized the student loan program. you did have lending, but the interest rates were lower. these are being run by the federal government and the interest rates are going up. he's the one charging the high interest. >> who's next?
>> in what ways exactly is illegal immigration effecting or ruining our economy? >> we don't think it is, right? >> i don't see the damage that illegal immigration would do. >> i don't speak english. somebody who speaks english loses a job. >> there's a tremendous expense when it comes to people who decide they need to use our medical system. there's a huge impact in terms of public expense and public assistance for people in this country who are not legal citizens. >> but they also give us things. >> absolutely, they do. >> they pay taxes.
they don't collect social security because they're illegal. >> fundamental question is they're here without our permission. then again some receive public assistance that becomes very expensive. democrats say if you're an illegal immigrant, we want to give you in-state tuition costs. >> on rubio's tax plan, rand paul criticized it for not being conservative. do you think all republican programs need to be considered conservative or be labeled that way? >> if this becomes a race of benefits, how much money can we give you through different types of social assistance, then the democrats will win. it is important to point out when marco rubio offers a child tax credit it is very different from a child care krecredit. >> thank you, panel. coming up, what should a candidate do when moderators ask
if i were running for president, i'd do better. but that's really dubious because debates are hard. to stand here live with your opponents ready to pounce and remember the facts about budget numbers or government programs, provinces in iraq, that's difficult. could you do it, audience? what do you think? >> no. >> that's an honest answer. i know i would struggle, especially when the questions are random or stupid. tonight's questions were pretty good, but in previous debates -- here's one. >> what is your biggest weakness and what are you doing to address it? >> how are candidates supposed to answer that in a political debate? mike huckabee was clever. he got a laugh by saying this. >> i don't really have any weaknesses that i can think of. he we >> he went on to joke to say his
wife could tell you his weaknesses. it's a bad question. donald trump said i trust people too much. excuse me? that's his weakness? carly fiorina came up with this answer. >> at the last debate i was told i didn't smile enough. >> fixed it. >> fixed it. cute little putdown. but it's hard to give useful answers to questions like that or ones like this from the last cnn debate. >> the united states secret service uses code names for the president and his family. ronald reagan's code name, for example, was rawhide. >> he went on to ask the candidates what should your code name would be. i wish one responded cnn hater,
and i resent your flippant questions. but i really wish one said something like this. >> i will cut back the secret service because america is going broke. we have to cut government. and the secret service, like all government agencies, has grown to a giant beast, one that's so incompetent that they let a stranger walk right in the front door of the white house, but they're still so big and intrusive that they disrupt all life when a president travels. a president, heck, i once appeared on nbc with john snow, george w. bush's treasury secretary. nobody knew who snow was. because snow had his government position, four secret service agents protected him and officiously ordered everyone else out of the room. when i'm president, i'll have a much smaller security detail. no, i'm not going to announce my
code name to the entire country on your show. but i guess candidates can't talk like that, but i wish one would and would go on to say, the secret service is just a tiny example. if you students are to have a future, we have to cut most things government does and reduce the growth of government. people my age now collect much more from government than we put in, and there aren't enough of you to pay for us old people. after all when social security was created, most people didn't even live to age 65. now on average it's 78 years and life spans increase on average eight hours per day. government can't pay for all of us. but i want my medicare. i rudely refuse to die. are you guys ready to turn over almost all your money to people like me? >> no.
>> cover my health care? no? >> no. >> well, you shouldn't have to but because most of the candidates here around me will not support any major cuts your future is toast. democrats want to give people more free stuff. college, free phones, free birth control, as if all things come from government. your future will be good only if we cut government or at minimum reduce the growth of government to 2% a year. 2%. shouldn't that be possible? that's still more than inflation now. does government have to grow twice as fast as inflation every year? no. but it always grows every year more than inflation because my political opponents won't cut anything. we should end all bailouts, foreign aid, corporate welfare, cut regulation by half and so on.
i doubt we'll hear that. not from the next few debates, but maybe someday. and that's our show. see you friday for a new show at our normal time 8:00 p.m. eastern time. >> those powers are flying. >> the cobra. >> this thing was sleek, looked like a shark and was designed for one thing, and that was killing. >> choppers of vietnam and the daring men who flew them. >> that's tonight on "war stories."that's