tv The Intelligence Report With Trish Regan FOX Business January 13, 2016 2:00pm-3:01pm EST
see quite that way. i have a feeling that could be very big debate topic, trish regan. that and some other things. trish: i have feeling too. you and i should know. see you thursday knight. welcome to a special edition of "the intelligence report" live from charleston, south carolina. i'm trish regan. we have a day away from second fox business debate i will be hosting along with san doctor smith and neil cavuto and maria bartiromo tomorrow night at 6:00 p.m. the president is trying to reassure the nation that our economy is strong and our nation is secure. >> the united states of america is the most powerful nation on earth, period. [applause] period. it's not even close. trish: the president went on to down play the threat of isis and
took a victory lap on nuclear deal with iran. he talked about curing cancer and preventing climate change and we did hear him say quite a bit about the economy saying he has done right by this economy. he created 14 million jobs. that really points to the strength of what he has been able to do for this economy. but nonetheless as we watch market off 200 points and economists suddenly talking about the dreaded "r" word, recession again, there are a lot of questions out there, did he do enough last night to reassure the american people. we have analysis from republican strategist, ford o'connell and democratic strategist, nomiki khan. i will give him this the unemployment rate has fallen to 5%. we've been adding jobs, over 200,000 just in the last month, however, however, america doesn't feel very good about the economy right now. one of the reasons for that because we just haven't seen any kind of wage growth. so as the president went on and on about his economic successes
during his administration last night what do you think everyday americans are feeling? >> i think that everyday americans don't think that was a state of the union. when it comes to the economy they think the president was in state of denial. lowest workforce participation in 30 years. as you pointed out wages are just not moving up and telling tall tales about the sturdy nature of the economy and china is going in the toilet and dragging us down with it. we're not in great shape but on thin ice. i'm not sure he did enough to calm americans. i will say this. this speech was not about that. it was protecting his leggy sy and frame the argument for democrats in 2016. trish: nomiki, i think ford is right, this was very much a speech. by the way i thought it was a very good speech. i will give him this, he is a tremendous, tremendous orator and did a really wonderful job and we'll talk about in just a moment with how which kurtz. at times at mated when he
considered -- admitted his biggest failure in this administration that he created a lot of anger and overseen that during his tenure, but nomiki, did you feel any part of speech was directly aimed at donald trump? >> i think you know, he was, he was not shy to criticize some on the right, one donald trump could be ted cruz, could be really any of the republican candidates who have taken the lead from donald trump in some of this extremist rhetoric, banning muslims, et cetera, et cetera. i think what president obama, ford was right, ford was absolutely right. this is all about creating a path for democrats forward. a lot of that i have to counter, the economy is better as a whole. you have to have amnesia to think where we were eight years ago is somehow better than where we are today. we've had longest -- >> no meekky better is fine but this is not sturdy economy. >> 70 straight months of job
growth, that never happened in history. wages are down. guess why they are down? ceo's are more interested lining their pockets with millions of dollars than lining their workers. trish: nomiki, i will save this conversation for the economists i will tell you historically speaking any other time in history, when you had that kind of depth of recession, you spring back in pretty big way. we haven't had that. and the frustration has been, really frankly washington and policies coming from washington, rhetoric coming out of washington. that has contributed to this mall lace. sure we're better off than we were for sure during the depths of the 2008 crisis but we are not where we should be. and he does have to take some accountability for that. i put that on hold. we'll talk about it with the economist. >> trish, to your point, if the economy was so strong as obama likes to tout it, hillary clinton would walk right to the white house. that is obviously not the case of the american people are worried about it.
something else he is state of denial about. isis is not some thugs on back of a truck. they're playing with chemical weapons, okay. he wants to disassociate islam from it. no way people will stop this. people are broke, they don't feel safe, that is a problem for democrats. trish: this is important, part of this speech was laying out his legacy as he goes forward, nomiki, he pointed out we don't want another iraq and we don't want another vietnam. we need to be facile about the decisions we make when it comes to putting troops overseas. >> right. trish: seems in some ways to be kind of a warning. would you agree with that? >> absolutely. you can even look at libya as recent example. we never put boots on the ground in libya but we also didn't train their soldiers, didn't unify their militias. they can't protect borders. one of the reasons why isis coming in. you have porous borders, especially isis targeting oil fields to make money we have to
keep in mind. vietnam was lost cause. that is very different situation. iraq is, we went into debt because of that. >> the well, fundamentally there are some real differences between i think how a lot of conservatives feel about all of this and what we should be doing to confront the isis threat. of course what president obama feels. that is very much on display last night. ford and nomiki, do not go away. >> one of the few regrets of my presidency that the rancor and suspicion between the parties has gotten worse instead of better. i have no doubt, a president with the gifts of lincoln or roosevelt might have better bridged the divide. trish: kind of a candid moment from him there last night. president obama, speaking to the nation about how bitterly divided we have all become since he took office but he did take the occasion to also make a rather seemingly veiled swipe at republican frontrunner.
listen to this. >> when politicians insult muslims, whether abroad or our fellow citizens, when a mosque is vandal aided, or a -- vandalized or a kid is called names, that doesn't make us safer. that is not telling it like it is. trish: hmmm, it wasn't just president taking shots at donald trump. listen to governor nikki haley's response. >> during anxious times it can be tempting to follow the siren call of the angriest voices. we must resist that temptation. no one who is willing to work hard, abide by our laws and love our traditions should ever feel unwelcome in this country. trish: joining me right now with analysis of the entire night, fox news media buzz host howie kurtz.
>> good to see you. trish: here in charleston. >> absolutely. trish: i am struck, curious to get your thoughts. i am struck by the president's willingness to admit what has been the most challenging part of his presidency. that he in some ways contributed to this anger that we've seen on both sides and this lack of trust. was that a candid moment from him, for him? >> it was acknowledging the elephant in the room. the president started off with an untruth. he said it would be shorter speech. he is a tremendous orator, he draws you in. i found it to be oddly disjointed speech. it was litany of liberal aspirations but no timetable. we'll cure cancer some time. on his point he came to national fame, there are no red states, no blue states. he was acknowledging failure but i don't think he acknowledged his role in it, by implication he regrets it. a lot of people he wasn't willing to work with republicans.
look at all executive orders. he would blame the gop, it was admission one place where he clearly failed. trish: howie, this is a guy i think could have been amazing preacher or could have done a good job at this job. >> maybe he still will. trish: he may. because he is tremendous when he's in front of an audience, when he is reading a teleprompter, and he really commands the room. but i think the problem is, people get all excited by that, right, on both sides of the aisle. he came in with so much stock behind him. people were just excited that he could bridge this gap. so there was high expectations. then once you sort of peel back the curtain, peel back the layers dealing with him one-on-one, he didn't have the same charisma to be able to work with republicans across the aisle. >> contrast between tremendous rhetorical gifts barack obama has. even many democrats over the years said i didn't get insited to white house.
never hear from the guy or his people. he really wasn't willing in the end most of the time to do the sort of grub by work of politics. play golf with members on the other side. engage in give-and-take. they would say republicans weren't willing to play but opposed him from day one, he was not able to inabout the divide. the speech was about legacy building. why we heard the talk about economic impact, economic improvements but it fell a little flat when he talked about terrorism. everyone knows the state of the world is not good. trish: he did, i was thinking myself as i watched take aim at donald trump. almost felt like he was going straight for him. he didn't say his name but a lot of what he was saying might have been directed at trump and cruz for that matter? >> there is anger in this country and obama not part of the political season is responding but wanted to appeal to our better nature. it was interesting that nikki haley, south carolina governor made the same point.
you don't have to take my word for it. she admitted in interviews, talking directly about donald trump. angriest voices. she did a good job, that is impossible task to follow pageantry of the state of the union but i don't think any accident gop leadership picked governor haley to respond and she went after donald trump. trish: she is indian american. she is a woman. this is a party that really needs to expand the tent right now. >> party very divided right now between those who want to expand and those who are, say channeling anger towards immigrants and other problems in society. trish: howie kurtz, nice to see you. >> nice to see you, trish. trish: iran sees 10 u.s. sailors accusing them of trespassing in iranian waters. they have been released. secretary of state john kerry is thanking iran. wait till you hear this one. superstar montel williams joining me in south carolina. he is a proud gun owner and strong supporter of the
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trish: new images today of that moment when iranian revolutionary guards captured 10 u.s. soldiers in the persian gulf. take a look at these here. these images are showing americans with their hands on their heads and the iranians inspecting machine guns on board and going through papers. iran released the sailors this morning after detaining them when one of their boats suffered mechanical problems and drifted into iranian waters.
they detained them. well, today, secretary john kerry thanked iran for its response. >> want to thank the iranian authorities for their cooperation and quick response. these are always situations which, as everybody here knows, have an ability to, if not properly guided, to get out of control. and i'm appreciative of for the quick, appropriate response. trish: was that the right response? joining me right now, fox news security analyst, kt mcfarland. kt, john kerry is saying thank, thanks, he is extremely grateful the iranians didn't escalate this. we drifted into their waters. the least they could do, given all we've been doing for them with this iran deal is help us. >> just, picture says it all. picture of american sailors on
their knees with their hands behind their heads, what, that is going all around the world. what does that say? americans surrendering to iran. iran taking american prisoners. iran defeating the united states navy. that's the picture. that is the image. the other image is of the americans in the room sitting down on the floor and one woman in the room, she is sitting off in corner. she has a headscarf on. what sad image to the word. we iranians put american women in their place. me made sure she put a headscarf on. trish: wow. >> why are they doing this? why did they give the prisoners back? because they want that $100 billion windfall they're going to get with the sanctions relief in the next couple weeks. if that money wasn't on the table, do you think the iranians really would have given our sailors right back to us.
and other point -- trish: kt, i want to go back to the image of the woman sitting in corner with the headscarf on. you're right, they were sending some kind of a message with that i find it to be extraordinarily disturbing one. >> you know secretary kerry just said, five years ago we would never have had this happy conclusion to our situation. you know what? 2007, the iranian navy took the british sailors, prisoner, held them for two weeks. what image do they have? the british naval, the navy sailor, she had to had a headscarf on. they didn't change behavior much. they had quicker release. flash forwarding to five years from now, what will iranians be like when they pocketed $100 billion? do you think they will be ready to give our people back? nope. they will do exactly what we think they will do, been firm and aggressive with money in the pocket. trish: what do you think
contributed to kerry's comments? why have this big thank you moment? >> trish i think they have all been drinking the kool-aid. that the president, secretary kerry, they think they have done a terrific thing with this iran nuclear deal. they think they saved the world from nuclear disaster. they will not take any evidence to the contrary. they have their minds set and will stick with it. i predict, trish, by end of the year, president obama, secretary kerry will go to tehran. they want to cement their great legacy. probably want a u.s.-iranian summit that we haven't had anything in the generation. whatever iran does the administration will look the other way because they're so hungry for that deal, even a bad deal. trish: yeah. hey, look, i cover business. and i know from a negotiating standpoint, ceo would tell you can't show your cards. you got to at least maintain some distance in all of this. you can't be too desperate, which may be the kind of
situation we're in right now. anyway, kt, thank you so much. >> thank you, trish. trish: good to see you. tomorrow, everyone, gop candidates will take the stage here in charleston, south carolina. it is second fox business debate. but candidates they're not waiting for tomorrow to take the gloves off. coming up, we have a preview of all the action right after this. the stay right back here as we watch the market off 200 plus points right now. fears of recession creeping back into the economy.
it is same story suns we kicked off this new year and trish, it keeps going on, another big selloff on wall street. trish: ashley, thank you very much. we'll continue watching it everyone. we'll talk about what is happening right here tomorrow night in charleston, south carolina. already gloves are coming off the as we count down to the first votes in the presidential election. jeb bush taking on marco rubio, who is taking on chris christie, and ted cruz escalating attacks with donald trump who seems to be fighting with everyone and all will come to a head right here tomorrow night in charleston, south carolina, starting at 6:00 p.m. eastern for the second fox business debate. the stage is a little different this time around. ted cruz moving closer to the center as he and donald trump continue to dominate the polls. chris christie making his return after act selling in that first debate with sandra and myself. carly fiorina is returning to the first debate stage with me
and sandra after failing to qualify for the other showdown. what should we expect this time around? just two days after the president's state of the union? ford o'connell and nomiki konst are here. alongside me, our very own blake burman again. blake, what is the pulse like would you say ahead of tomorrow's debate? here we are just weeks away from iowa and new hampshire. there is a a lot i think would be on the line. >> we were joking we need a flow chart die diagram to figure out who is hitting who. the gloves are off as you just mentioned. last 24 hours, ted cruz hitting donald trump, that he e bodies new york values an seems a bit rattled. cruz is not for ethanol and tweeting again, bringing up citizenship issue. those two are going back at it. for basically the first time
ever, at least on ted cruz's side in last 24 hours or some marco rubio jumped into the fray here in south carolina. he basically questioned trump's temperment and questioned his ability if he were able to win this whole thing. take a listen here real quick. >> electing someone who is upset alone will not be enough. you need someone who knows exactly what they're going to do. knowing exactly what they're going to do. make as good segue i was very proud of last night to see the governor of this great state give the state of the union response. >> marco rubio did not stay out of the fray, trish, because jeb bush today hit his old mentor, his old protege, basically saying about those boots, you remember those boots, hit him over the fashion statement of all things and said that bush doesn't have a height problem, talking about the boots. trish: wow. >> if we had diagram it would be fantastic. trish: going after each other. that is what they have to do in this environment. >> yeah.
trish: for sure because they're all jockeying for position. i want to bring blake and nomiki into the conversation, forgive me, ford and nomiki along into this conversation with blake. you know, ford, let me just ask you about the strategy here in terms of the cruz-trump sparring. is it really smart for ted cruz to go after donald trump? he has kind of resisted that all along, right? he wants to bring in some of those donald trump maybe voters. >> here's the deal. it would normally be smart not to go after donald trump but he can't look timid. trump is killing him on the citizenship issue. believe it or not 32% of iowa republicans believe that someone born outside of the united states should not be president. trump knows exactly what he is doing. unfortunately cruz can not hang back any longer. the question, the gloves will come off. how bloody will it get? you have establishment cage match brewing as well.
we have a seven-way going the wrong way right now. trish: blake, think about the establishment candidates and every time they go after donald trump it's a challenge, almost like it gives donald trump more power. now i have to defend him and really like him because the establishment really doesn't like him. not that cruz is the establishment but marco rubio has been going after him. >> marco rubio has been going after him a little while. went after him a month or two ago, pulled back. jumped back into the fray again. this all circles back to the debate coming up tomorrow. iowa as you mentioned in a few weeks. it is mid-november. everybody has been saying wait until mid-november. we're here. now you have them all with trump front and center going after him. chris christie went after trump today, too. trish: nomiki, what is the danger for republican party? you see it playing out with democrats as well, bernie sanders attacking hillary clinton. that is fair game as we go into the national election.
anytime you see these primary contests do these sides take on certain amount of risk when they go after each other so hard? >> i think number one problem for this type of primary, when you have too many people in the primary and coming from different perspectives for the establishment, they're trying to stay on message as much as possible for the general election. right now you have lots of different messages being thrown around and lots of attacks on candidates probably want to have a smooth primary so they can go into the general looking unscathed. issue here, first thing what happened to ben carson? let's talk about that and all of his support. you see where his support went. evangelicals, born-again christians. those are in the ted cruz camp right now. i think donald trump is going to really go at it with ted cruz on stage to show how he has conservative base. those are people who turn out in iowa. that is -- >> let me say one thing that makes this cycle so unique. the establishment side has not decided who they want to settle on.
they like rubio but he is not running away with it. that is the problem. you want to stay on message but you can't get too far behind trump. the great trick trump has, doesn't know what the american electorate knows, whether they are misinformed or uninformed you knows how to use it in the election. he nudges out ted cruz and wins new hampshire, let me tell you something, he will be hard to stop. >> absolutely. i don't know if he will compete against hillary but. >> you want to know what else? i disagree with you democrats on that point. i disagree with democrats. trish: guy has challenge. >> he can actually change his pitch. i actually think he could beat hillary. he will have to change his pitch. will have to change his temper. tell you something, democrats say bring on trump. you could be in for a nightmare. he is savvy with the media and knows how to work people over. trish: wow. we're watching for it. thank you so much. nomiki, thank you. good to have all of you here. president obama, everyone says
ignore all the noise. economy is doing just great. >> the united states of america, right now, has the strongest, most durable economy in the world. trish: okay. after the break, an economic reality check for you. i'm back in two. see you right here. live from charleston, south carolina, as we watch markets off 200 plus points right now. some cash back cards are, shall we say, unnecessarily complex. limiting where you can earn bonus cash back... then those places change every few months... please. it's time you got the quicksilver card from capital one. quicksilver earns you unlimited 1.5% cash back
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trish: we have a market sitting near the lows of the session. we now look at a market that's off almost 350 points. this is happening less than 24 hours after we heard president obama in his state of the union proclaim his success with the economy and a lot to be proud of economically. clearly the market does not think so as all these fears about recession creep back in. we have seen oil losing a lot of ground. trading at $30 a barrel amid fears of a global slowdown. this market as we see losses.
steve, which steve. are investors feeling very worried here? if they look out through 2016 and we consider the prospects that maybe a recession could be in the cards, it seems to have a lot of folks rattled. what's going on. >> you are exactly right. there is a crisis of confidence. and a lack of confidence in even the u.s. economy. this morning we got way thought was important and foreboding information. the ceo of csx, a giant railroad company. he says he has never seen cargo shipment loads fall this precipitously without a recession. we are in a corporate profit recession.
it's debatable whether the economy is heading toward a recession. i think it is. trish: steve, we have seen investors benefit from poor economies before. the economy has gotten diversed from the fundamentals of the economy. >> in this case they are not divorced from the fundamentals. i think they are weak. i have been projecting that we would snay this 2% rut. but i'm starting to look at these numbers and saying 0 to 1%. where is the growth going to come from? what is bullish about what he said? even republicans i don't think are talking enough about it. when you are muttering this debate.
where is the growth going to come from. trish: believe me, this is coming up. a lot of americans feel frustrated by this last seven years. i'll give the president this. it's not as bad as it was. but we know it could be a heck of a lot better. >> i was surprised they went with that line about things are so much better because if you look at polling about what americans think about the economy, they don't agree with him. i think americans aren't overly pessimistic. but is' under water and people are cranky and mes -- and pessimistic. >> i think that's why trump is doing so well. he's speaking to the anger. while incomes are stagnant and barely growing were their costs are stagnant.
>> because of the government. but -- what could perhaps help in this environment is some kind of policy tone that's being -- >> it's not going to happen. do you think between now and the elect we'll get a major policy push for pro growth? i would love to see it. i don't see any indication this president believes that. by the way,. >> the bearish thing. donald trump wants a 45% tariff? how crazy is that? investors don't they adjust this stuff and say what is washington talking about? >> ebb if it's a bad certainty, investors like certainty. that's also just democracy. that's the system we have. 2016, that's a. >> the reason. if we elect a republican president and roll back not just tax reform but regulation.
the epa is unhinged. osha is unhinged. obamacare is an albatross on the job market. if we could peel back you would see the economy thrive. trish: you are worried about the recession? >> the interesting thing is on this oil picture. in charleston, did you see the price of gasoline? $1.59. >> low oil is not good for the united states net-net. >> it's good for the consumers and manufacturers. but the reason the price of oil is falling now is not because of shale oil and gas. the reason the price of oil just because of the complete collapse and demand. -- in demand. >> we up port more --
the dow off 350 point. the s & p and snas bac -- and nq down. so much of oil has been affecting the bigger markets. brent crude dropping below $30 a share for the first time in nearly 12 years. shares of met life dropping after the company announced selling off part of it business. general motors add to it dividend and add to it stock repurchase program.
trish: in the last 45 minute we have started to see this market accelerate in terms of its loss. we are down almost 400 points as we get closer and closer to the final hour of trade. lori rothman is joining us with more. sudden acceleration? reporter: we are accelerating here. 2:45 eastern time. so there is time to the closing bell. the price of oil is holding at
$30 a barrel. oil and stocks have been doing this dance, up in tandem and down in tandem in recent sessions but that's not the case here today. the selling pressure on stocks is intensifying. as i speak to the traders on the floor, they are questioning why that's happening. the sell-off is being led by consumer discretionary reports. we have been hearing from the big banks in terms of their earnings. healthcare is also weaker. exon mobile. and the bank of england meets tomorrow. china continues to cast a dark cloud with concern overred the global growth picture. i'm ticking off the points we look at when we see a scary sell-off. the fed's latest beige book
finds modest growth in most districts. trish: thank you so much. we'll continue checking in with you as we continue watching this sell-off. pretty massive right here. off 364 points. a lot of concerns kreeping back into this market that we could be heading for a recession. this comes on the heels of president obama telling the nation that his economic record proves that we are in good shape, that we added jobs. that things are improving. the market not agreeing with that sentiment. we'll continue watching it. i'll see you back here in two. fidelity's active trader pro can help you find smarter entry and exit points and can help protect your potential profits. fidelity -- where smarter investors will always be. my lineage was the vecchios and zuccolis. through ancestry,
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this market which is off 342 points. oil take it on the children, trading at $30 a barrel. there are a lot of fears the u.s. could be heading straight back into and recession. you can see oil in the aftershowers trading not just a touch but right there at that $30 level. i want to turns to the second amendment. the president left a seat empty next to the first lady. it was he said a tribute to the victims of gun violence. calling it unfinished business, he issues executive action to tighten gun laws. my next guest is a defender of the second amendment. montel williams. trish: you carry a gun? >> i had a carry gun permit in the state of new york. i let that wane because i have
enough protection around me. i own multiple guns. i spent years in the military. i had to qualify as an expert every year when i was on active duty. i used to go a lot to the shooting range. but because i live in new york state, unfortunately my guns are with a friend in his house in utah and they are locked away. i have one registered in the state of new york and another registered with a family member in tennessee. trish: when you have go to your friend's house in utah you enjoy shooting. but say you are in favor backgrounds checks. a lot of people that are gun owners don't necessarily want to see more regulation. do you think it will clog things up? >> it's an interesting conversation that nobody is willing to sit down peacefully like and i are because lines are drawn in the sand.
some saying they don't want more registration, just enforce the laws you have today. in 1981 ron salt reagan asked for addition albachground checks. and he said if it would change the status of death in america 10% he was for it. why don't we put more emphasis -- there must be close to 1,000 laws. the federal government is not enforcing the laws they put in place requiring state judges, federal judges to -- in chicago, the president spoke about a young lady at his state of union address honed up being killed. that little girl died because the guy who shot her was on probation for a gun violation. he was a gang member. in the city of chicago and til now there is additional time he
should have served in jail for being a gang member with a gun. we could do one more thing. i have something kinds of controversial i have been discussing with friends in the nra and other people. our problem in america is we have to understand this country defends a constitution for other americans. why is it we don't have a national american i.d. card. i'm required to have a passport. so if i was born and every person in the country got a passport and on that passport it would say if you commit a felony, i put a star on your passport. if i walk into a gun store and they put my passport on a reared it will be green or red. if it's red, they will say i have got problems with this. i will sell you a gun when it gets green. why do we not have the right -- i put my life on the line and a
lot of people put a uniform on and defend this constitution for americans. i'll protect you if you are a visitor here. but i want to know who is american. don't we have a right to know that? no one seems to want to talk about that. if you tie that together you could forget registration. they will only go to americans who are allowed to have them. in multiple cases of mass shootings in the last two years we know for a fact these people have been mentally ill where doctors have reported them that way. why don't we have a national registration for that or national data bank. i'm sorry, it might not be political reply correct but when someone knocks down your back door and kills your child and you found out a doctor said three years before they should have had no right to be -- come on, trish. this is easy. it makes sense.
it's simple. i'm not asking for gun owners to give up their rights. i'm asking us to have a conversation. i said it to you during a break. it's interesting. people think it's a strange relationship i have with a close friend of mine. wayne and i talk from type to time. he's the head of the nra. trish: and you talk. people are not talking on each side. >> we keep up the rhetoric and the noise wes noise. we the people means all of us together. trish: good to have you. here we are just an hour left of trading. we have a market in a step sell-off. i'll see you back here in 2. at ally bank, no branches equals great rates.
the very next fox business gop debate. it all starts tomorrow night, 6:00.m. eastern. make sure to set your dvr or tune in live, followed by neil cavuto and maria bartiromo, beginning at 9:00 p.m. eastern. we are asking the substantive questions that need to be answered right now. liz claman, over to you. liz: trish, thank you very much. we need to tell our viewers we have had a dramatic and sudden drop on wall street in the last 21 minutes, the sell-off took a downturn. the dow jones industrials was down about 360 points, right now we're lower by 322. we see a total reversal and then some from the dow which today jumped 77 points earlier. what's going on? as best we're figuring out could be a couple of things are number one, levels, we fell through a critical level for the s&p 500. that level would be 1901 at the moment when we look at the s&p 500 we're at 1897. we fell throug