number of absentee votes and early votes. lou: lieutenant governor rebecca clay fish, good luck with those forecast. our elect coverage continues with my colleague neil cavuto. neil: think just one state. so it's all one state, so if you win wisconsin tonight you get a lot of attention and notoriety. if you lose it, you get a lot of attention and notoriety. if you are ted cruz and you pull think out in what is considered to be a donald trump strong point. if you are donald trump maybe not so much. if you are hillary clinton battling with a suddenly sunning
bernie sanders, who know. 48 delegate at state for the republicans. one guy could win them all or most of them. on the democratic side we have 8 delegates, all proportionally shared. the democrats have that other little goody, the superdelegates. charlie gasparino,ly claman, and lou dobbs will be joining us in our next segment. at cruz headquarters in milwaukee it wasn't that long ago when think state was supposed to be an easy win for donald trump. it was tailor made for his crowd. then something happened. what's the mood there? reporter: the polls have been showing for a while that this
would be potentially a victory for donald trump. then last week we got the two polls from marquette university and fox business poll that showed ted cruz up by 10 point. potentially part of that has to do with the endorsement of scott walker. walker is the sitting governor in wisconsin, former presidential candidate. not on was cruz backed by walker, and he went out on the campaign trail all across the state. but there was the conservative talk radio that backed scott walker in his three elect victories in wisconsin that had been pulling for ted cruz. scott walker i highly liked statewide. that plus the support really from republicans all across the state of that conservative talk
radio level and that's what potentially could bring ted cruz across the finish line tonight. a couple things to note in wisconsin. crew is the on one on the ground here tonight. this is a labeled victory elect party tonight. when trump throw a party like this, they are confident of victory. cruz feels like they are doing well and they are trying toed if off of it. there is going to be record turnout across the state. to my west, waukesha county, the suburbs, one of the local officials there i saying that it would not shock her if the turnout was up to 80%.
that county has 400,000 people in it. appleton, one of the local news newspapers is reporting 80% turnout. state officials said they believe it will be at a 40% clip. either way they are expecting one of the highest turnouts in decade. from being at the polling site earlier. one of the locations in this suburb of milwaukee, it the turnout was extreme. neil: donald trump is in new york at the trump tower. reporter: it's interesting trump has returned to his oklahoma city ahead of the voting in wisconsin, wrapping up. he seems like from everything we can tell, he's trying to shut the focus of his campaign.
the next event planned for donald trump, he has nothing planned for tonight, but tomorrow in long island. there is still voting going on in the state of wisconsin. trump worked hard there the last few days. we saw hip trying to convince the last-minute voters to come out. he suffered through a tough week in the headlines. we appear to be covering what i a trump campaign in some degree of transition. he's watching the returns at trump tower. his campaign manager said trump is planning to change course to some degree. instead of the large raucous rallies he is known for, we are told to look for more specific policy speeches on the military, education and the supreme court. we are not expected to see any of that tonight.
so tomorrow, right on cue here, in new york, you have the sirens coming up the streets. tomorrow we'll be on long island with donald trump at a large venue where they normally make tv shows. it will be the first chance for trump to react cot results, whatever they are from wisconsin. there is nothing from the trump campaign tonight. neil: next week we'll have a press conference in california. bernie sanders is hoping for a win here. he's polling well in this state. traditionally it does grab for liberal. jeff flock at a polling sight in milwaukee.
reporter: he said all along if the turnout is big, he's a big winner. take a look at these lines. this is a polling place in milwaukee. the city of milwaukee. this is the most populace district ward in milwaukee. look at these lines. necessity just keep going and going. they think their turnout was 50% as of 4:00. and they think maybe 70% 80% before they are done. the state has 96 democratic delegates. but 86 are at stake. 10 are superdelegates. most of those are congressional districts. 57 of the delegates from there. as to candidate in the state, as you point out, nobody is here tonight. bernie sanders was here earlier,
and he has moved on to which whicd on towyoming which is thee next caucus. hillary clinton has the been here. in terms of herself, not here and maybe downplaying expectations in wisconsin. we'll watch it, neil. neil: sanders is at the point in his campaign where he has to start winning big. we'll see what happens. i want to go to lou dobbs. lou, you mentioned something interesting about what's at stake here tonight. when all is said and done, we are talking 42 delegates. let's say cruz wins them all tonight. that would bring him up to 517, which is more than 200 behind donald trump. i'm not dismissing it but it shows the mathematical game. even if he were to sweep all the delegates.
lou: you are correct. but the cumulative effect is powerful. it takes the two of them, cruz and trump over the 1,237 mark and gives them the power to determine what will happen in the rules committee, the convention and determine if they could between them about who would do what on that ticket. i'm sure they could come to an instant agreement about who would be president and who would be vice president. neil: how likely is that, a superhero teaming up. i would imagine if you are cruz you are not willing at this point to concede anything. lou: this is the fallacy in my thinking because it requires an agreement between two men who have been beatings the tar out of each other for some time now. the two of them coming together may be improbable, by the am not
impossible. their contempt for the republican establishment that is trying to destroy it both of them probably could get them to overcome a lot of animosity between the two of them. neil: lou, thank you. one of the things that's interesting, cruz and trump account for 80% of the delegates. you could mike a fairly convincing argument that those two together could arrest the concerns in the party, even though they are not considered very likeable. >> on what argument can you make that argument after donald trump said we did about high he cruz. donald trump will win tonight. this an open primary. he has won 10 out of 14 some primaries where you don't have to declare democrat or republican. i think he wins it.
i go out on the limb, the people i have been talking to, they say you look at that one data point and it looks positive for donald trump. though if you look at every other website cruz wins. neil: in the caucus states he was polling close. liz: he lost ohio and texas. neil: kennedy, if that happens, donald trump could put this away. kennedy: absolutely. he has quite a few states favorable to in the near future, including new york where he's up by 30 points. is it 20 or 30? neil: who are you talking about?
kennedy: that's belinda. if donald trump wins here tonight that's why it's a make or break state. he goes into some of these winner-take-all contests and east coast states where he's definitely going to prevail. thursday when the fox business poll came out he was behind 19 points among women. that's where you will see whether this campaign against trump has taken hold and whether the perception he's had a rough 10 days, the lewandowski thing. liz: or you wait until the general election to figure that out. >> i think it on people who think trump has a shot at winning are the people drinking trump vodka. there are a couple of polls that are random.
i tried to ply her with vodka. if trim wins tonight, it's lights out, it's over for cruz. they said they will concede if he wins in wisconsin. he was up so much that momentum changed so much that if trump has a literally, he wins. but, every internal poll that they have, even their exit polls, their exit polls shows him winning fairly significantly. here is the problem donald has. you win significantly and cruz wins significantly, they will start picking apart in new york. new york is a proportional state as well. cruz will be in new york tomorrow from what i understand. neil: campaigning or fundraising. >> everything. they will pick off delegates left and right.
my view is, if ted cruz wins tonight big, i think this is definitely going to a contested convention. kennedy: that's why it's make or break. trump has to win make or break for the presidential campaign. neil: he would need over 63%. >> the math gets tough if he classes most of the delegates. i'm telling you this is heading -- it goes to contests convention. donald trump will not be the gop nominee. last week he laid the ground work -- he cannot say some of the things he said, particularly last week and make a legitimate case he should be the republican nominee.
neil: when people in wisconsin were checked on this. many of them share the view, if you have got the most delegates you should get nomination. kennedy: there are a lot of people who feel that way. but they understand the rules are shrouded in mystery. they feel for all the people who voted in the primaries, if more people voted for one candidate, that person should get the nomination. that's not what the rules say. the rules committee that determines -- >> not necessarily a majority of them. that is just one of the little nuggets in there. what are you learning? >> that's an interesting nugget. it's about 56% there. we are look at late deciders. they are evenly split. senator ted cruz coming in with 38%.
kasich holding that 20%. that critical mass that potentially held ted cruz in this no trump or non-trump situation. you can see here 36% want a candidate who can bring change. that often goes to donald trump. 32% want someone who shares their values. you have also got 19% saying they want someone who tells it like it is and that's often donald trump as well. but we want to also look at the fractured republican party. they are very fractured. do you feel betrayed by politicians in the republican party? 56% say yes and 46% say no. even that is very evenly split. neil: one of the things that
came through. if your guy doesn't win, would be you support the other guy. no. kennedy: it's one of those sort of sweeter states unlike arizona and nevada. voter were fueled by animosity and anger. people are saying we are dissatisfied with the way things are being run. i think the fact that it' not that virulent anger bode better for cruz. >> the republican party establishment wisconsin. if you win a majority plus 1 you have a bert chance of beating the democrat. when we talk about this stuff
being shrouded in secrecy. getting to 1,237 is not shrouded in secrecy, it gets shrouded in secrecy when you have to make your case to delegates. the delegates aren't poll stirs and a bunch of hedge fund guys. these are people are who are part of the party who care about the party. neil: we are waiting the polls closing 42 minute from now. a lot of attention on the state. it's the on state voting tonight. it's the focus of the political world. it's big. 47.8. we are so over this. when it comes to small business, she's in the know.
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neil: an interesting stat. it takes the weird stats i seize on. if you don't have a majority going in. is close good enough? yes, according to 56% of voters in wisconsin. wisconsin republican senator ron johnson is not endorsing anyone. what do you make of that? >> i'm like the earlier talk. i find the republican party of wisconsin a very unified party.
is there not much of a difference between tea party republicans and conservative republicans. i think we'll coalesce around the nominee. neil: i don't see that happening. when i hear these other questions ask, they say no, they would sit home. they hate each other. >> i think this is something the national press found out. we have extraordinarily radio talk show hosts educating conservatives and republicans for decades. i think in the end we'll coalesce around the candidate. neil: you really think so? i think all of you need food tasters. >> in the end it will be a choice between the republican nominee and hillary clinton and bernie sanders. an avowed socialist. republicans have been educated
that socialism doesn't work. neil: many backers of the prominent candidate ted cruz and say i would sit it out. >> we can't sit it out. the direction of the supreme court is at stake. neil: i understand that, but try telling that to the rapid fans of each of the candidates. >> i will be telling them that. i have been talking to republicans and we are a serious lot. neil: senator, thank you very much. lou are's a terrific spokesman for a unified wisconsin. i think he's being absolutely sincere, maybe it is -- neil: that might be have much the case. we may be making too much of what are differences and
differentiation based on polling rather than on-the-ground experienced. liz: if you are in the hopeful artery at. it's not so much that rapid fans of ted cruz and donald trump want someone than the other guy, it's how much they dislike the other guy. charlie: charlie sykes is one of the writers to eviscerated donald trump. he tore his lungs out. for charlie sykes to turn around and say -- he did it with donald sitting there which was the interesting thing -- he said he's income tent and a fake conservative, i think we should endorse him and vote for him. it seems like a 180 and hard to do.
kennedy: charlie sykes is just one of four talk show hosts in the state. i interviewed one talk show host last night on my show and donald trump hung up on her. he came off as uneducated in a state where talk radio listen and that's where they get their education. the wisconsin republican establishment is very different than it is in the rest of the country. scott walker is the establishment. he has been fighting against some incredible foes, the likes of which many of these candidates have never seen. when you see the establishment uniting with grassroots and tea party republicans, that means something in that state. charlie: donald tried to sell that wisconsin is a basket case and the con rsh palsies -- and
its conservative policies aren't working. lou: he's very popular. charlie: he's very popular among republicans. that's donald's problem. he went into a republican primary saying the guy who is popular with republicans is doing a lousy job. >> there is one number that's been ignored by just about everyone. the trump campaign as well as the national media. 4.6% unemployment. this is a well managed government. it's anomalous among many governments in the midwest. and scott walker has done a heck of a job. >> 88,000 openings for jobs that pay more than the minimum wage. if you need a job, move to wisconsin.
charles: the old rust belt has changed. between ohio and wisconsin -- kennedy: when you cut spending and you are able to be number beanl adapt like they have in wisconsin and ohio. it makes it much easier to evolve. charlie: and he took on the unions. lou: they are losing 3,000 people a year despite good government, jobs and everything else going for the state. it's quite remarkable. neil: we are a half-hour away from polls closing. lizzy is going out on the limb. she thinks donald trump could take it. she has a pretty good track record. but virtually everyone else i talked to, and that's thousands of people -- i go with lizzy. the pursuit of healthier.
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you say that's not a lot of delegates. but let's say ted cruz were to get them all, he would still be way more than 200 behind. so we have to keep perspective. lou: then comes new york. things are building here. but it's also very important that he gets the bragging rights. he hasn't won an election in a month and he's getting dangerously close to needing a windows prattly to keep it going. neil: deirdre bolton is here with how it many breaking down in the state. deirdre: there are the wow counties. washington, wozaki and waukesha. the reason this is so important.
this is at the hart of the governor's support system. he's still at 80 per. this is the biggest constituency of gop voters and where they identify as being the most traditional. in 2012 you see romney clean sweeps in these areas. 40%, 60%. showing all of these areas probably will go in fact for senator cruz. if you look where trump might get support, it will probably be in the north, a little bit more rural and blue collar. that if anywhere is where trump will pick up support. you can go into the primaries with two tickets, republican and
democrat and throw out the one you are not going to use. neil: how did they do that, check out the people? we are getting word that bernie sanders is under fire for an editorial board interview he conducted at the new york daily news monday. but he had a lot of non-answers that raised hackles that he's not up to stuff on policy issue. he was asked his opinion on the president's drone strike. i don't know the answer to that. on taking the islamic state commander if one were captured. bernie sanders said i haven't thought about that a lot. within a nano second of that coming out, hillary clinton seized on it as a fundraising vehicle and copy and pasted the entire exchange presumably on
her website. kennedy: we learned this is another way of answering questions when you have no idea what you are talking about. donald trump he waded into it when he started talking about abortion without having a thoroughly fleshed out answer. bernie sanders, maybe he looked at donald trump and went in the opposite direction. but it make you look flat food and empty. maybe all you are doing at those big rallies is spouting empty leftist platitude. a lot of this stuff does require some thought. he's a united states senator affairs committee. he should know about these things. liz: there is another one they talked about where he didn't have a plan on breaking up the bangs. he got it out with a broad swath, but the fine-point details he didn't have.
so the editorial board kept pushing him, how would you? would you leave it up to jp morgan and goldman sachs to break themselves up? he didn't have the answer. neil: he's their version of the donald trump without too many specifics. lou: hillary clinton is doing what trump did, getting into trouble with abortion. deciding a fee you is an unborn person. charlie: when it comes to dollars to donut, if you don't have basic answers on policy questions like that, you are -- when it get this late in the game -- neil: i don't know why you keep asking me that. >> because you are running for president. neil:
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big numbers in a couple weeks. a big supporter of hers joins me now. glad to have you. it's not looking good on paper going into tonight for your candidate. but she has got 2 mill-plus lead in the popular vote, a big delegate lead. do you think this i a setback if she were to lose wisconsin or just a speed bump? >> everybody want to winner date but that's impossible whether it's on the republican or democratic side. the bottom line is who is going to get to the convention. for hillary clinton she does have the lead on the delegate count. at the end of the day she'll have the athlete and she'll be the democratic nominee. >> what do you think keeps bernie sanders in this race. one of this people would
possible it, well, she'll stumble or she'll be i dated or she'll fall under a -- she she'll be indicted. what do you think that? >> what he has been doing, he has a lot of good sound bites. but there is aif drence between sound bites and having sound policy proposals. when you talk about giving free college education to everybody, young people will like that. i support college education. i created the largest texas grant, the large nest scholarship in can history. but we had to find a way to pay for that college. neil: it's not as if -- >> community banks also. i it your thought when all is said and done that she is going to get there comfortably with enough delegates?
the idea that you hear from the and course folks, slow her momentum. 2,000 delegates going to philadelphia. then she'll be 200 shy. what do you think? >> i think she'll have the numbers before she gets to the national convention. at least i think that's what's going to happen. on the republican side it will be tougher for somebody to get the magical numbers. but she'll get the numbers by the time she gets to the national convention. neil: congressman, thank you very much. she'll get there with more than enough delegates. >> republicans don't have superdelegates. neil: superdelegates can shift. charlie: they are like the politburo. they can but they wouldn'tly won't.
and that will probably put her over the top. if bernie sanders -- i have not seen the "daily news" interview, if he can't answer basic questions. if you are going to mention breaking up banks,000 times, you would think you would have some plan, some broad outline. kneel require came to light and a lot of it is not looking good for bernie sanders. he looked unprepared. peeve . -- peevish. angry. like a tv anchor. 5 minute until the polls close. we have a lot more coming up.
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reporter: welcome back to special coverage of the wisconsin primary. we want to show you what would happen if donald trump were the candidate and ran against hillary clinton. what does the picture look like for ted cruz if he's able to pull off the republican nomination. republican primary voters say 7 in 10 would go for cruz. here his an interesting stat. among trump voters only 4 in 10 would go for cruz, and of cruz voters on 5 in 10 would go for trump. that's an opposite story for the democratic party.
much more unified on that side. if there is no majority in delegates among any of the republican candidates, the gop -- the question is should the gop nominate a candidate who has the most votes of the candidate so far? >> yes, that's what republican voters are saying, while 42% say the delegates could pick the best candidate for the republican nomination. a very interesting fractured landscape here as we get more exit poll data. neil: i wonder how that broke down between trump and cruz supporters. kennedy: 8 out of 10 trump supporters said whoever comes in. it's 50%. lou: there was nothing counterintuitive.
neil: senator scott brown early on endorsed donald trump. he could have a bumpy evening. we don't know. but he ran into a buzz saw of criticism and negative interviews and he might have to pay dearly for it tonight. do you think it's a done deal if that's the case? >> he should get crushed. if ted cruz doesn't crush him, it's a win for trump. it's true. if i was there, forget by the, okay? he could get by on his good looks there. neil: scott brown was saying -- >> they are close.
lou: the laughter after the word truth is not always persuasive, but otherwise i thought you were compelling in your analysis. all in good fun. the reality for trump is as you mansion the expectations, how well he does tonight will and severe test. if he is -- if he goes beyond double digits, that's 10 or more points, don't you think? >> first all, it's a great test. there were missteps, all self-impose. easy answers, didn't have the answers. didn't. made some mistakes, learn and grow. this is a small state. there are 42 delegates. he gets none, there is still a 200 delegate lead. i thought this would be resolved in california.
but if he does not win here or get any delegates, we come north now. north is a whole different animal as you know. and with respect, ted is not well suited for the north. charlie: what happened with donald last week? did you not like brief him on what has been conservative part orthodoxy on abortion for decades. it's not the woman who goes to jail if the practice is illegal, it's the doctor or the person performing the act. this is something that goes back many years. the pro-life committee is adamant about this. how do you blow something so basic. >> i'm not a surrogate, i'm a
supporter. i do offer input and guidance whenever its -- appropriate. whenever you do an interview with chris matthews you have to be prepared. liz: how is it a gotcha question. >> i thought it was a pretty easy answer if you knew what to say. i would say chris, you asking me about abortion? what about hillary clinton who has the most extreme position on abortion in the history of presidential candidates. charlie: how do you blow a question that's so fundamental? >> he wasn't prepared for that. lou: anybody worse than hillary clinton? kennedy: personhood is critical to someone --
neil: he stumbled and wasn't ready. hillary clinton stumbled and wasn't ready. >> it sounds like bernie sanders stumbled with the newspaper recently. it happens. neil: you learn, you grow, you move on. neil: the polls are just five minutes away from closing. [dad] i wear a dozen different hats doing small gigs,side gigs...gig gigs. quickbooks self-employed helps me get ready for tax time. to separate expenses,i just swipe. it's one hat i don't mind wearing. [passenger] i work for me. and so does quickbooks. it estimates my taxes,so i know how much stays in my pocket. and that's how i own it. [announcer] stay in the flow with quickbooks self-employed. start your free thirty-day trial today at join-self-employed-dot-com.
. neil: all right, we're about a minute away from polls closing in the state of wisconsin. it is the only state up for grabs tonight. so probably get disproportionate attention. we don't have it on super tuesday or super tuesday 2 or beneath the super tuesday. all the other events we have competing for your attention, and wisconsin is just that state. so looking at this, kennedy, do you think that the pressure is on the guys who came in leading in the polls? >> absolutely. yet the pressure is on ted cruz and bernie sanders to deliver. if they're going to define their candidacies and move forward, they have to win big tonight. i think especially cruz because obviously the delegates are awarded differently, but he could come away with -- he could come away with 42, that's not likely. could come away 33 depending
how many congressional districts he wins and the at-large delegates. neil: on the democratic side, 86 delegates are portioned out, to sanders, you have to win big, big, big. >> you do. right now he's in wyoming. it only has 18 delegates. a small proportion of democratic voters there, he's pushing for every single one. neil: he did win, bernie sanders did pick up the state of wisconsin. we don't know margin of victory, we're comfortable enough saying he will win. we know on the republican side, we're not calling that one, that ted cruz has a substantial lead. i don't know what substantial is. substantial is what, double digits? >> it is double digits. neil: is that it? >> it is substantial. people were saying double digits. the question is, listen if he got over 15%, if he wins by over 15%, you got to say that