tv Lou Dobbs Tonight FOX Business April 12, 2016 11:00pm-12:01am EDT
"strange inheritance." thanks so much for watching. and remember -- you can't take it with you. l conservative. we're americans first. charles: and lou dobbs is the number one american. he's next. . lou: good evening, everybody. i'm lou dobbs. the moneyed republican elites ramping up efforts to subvert the will of the people and at any cost prevent donald trump from winning the republican nomination. new reports tonight that anti-trump billionaires are pumping millions of dollars into super pacs that are lighting up the airwaves with attack after attack on trump's candidacy, but the republican front-runner just keeps getting stronger in the polls. a brand-new new york one-baruch college poll shows trump with a commanding 43-point lead in his
home statement one week before new york's primary election. 60% support for trump compared to kasich's 17%, cruz's 14%. we'll take it up with billionaire investor wilbur ross who says if donald trump is the nominee, he will indeed be supporting him. also tonight, the chinese military deploying fighter jets to an island in the south china sea, the subject of claims by a number of countries including japan and the philippines. new satellite imagery provided exclusively to fox news shows these two chinese fighter jets that are remarkably similar to american f-15th on on woody island. the chinese have already placed surface-to-air missile systems on the disputed islands. i'll take it up, discussing china's provocations with house armed serves committee member congressman duncan hunter. congressman hunter, also co-chair of the trump
campaign's house leadership committee. and house speaker paul ryan today declared he won't permit his name to be put forward for president. this after weeks of seemingly fueling the speculation himself. ryan saying today he does not want nor will he accept the republican nomination. however, speaker ryan still managed to criticize those who are running and in an unprecedented manner insisted personal policy agenda should be considered equal to that of the party's presidential nominee. >> politics today, it tends to drift towards personality contests, not policy contests. insults get ink more than ideas. but we still owe it to the country to show what we want do if given a mandate from the people. we have an obligation to give a clear picture, a clear choice to talk about solutions. lou: former house speaker newt gingrich will weigh in on all
of that and much more, joining me later in the broadcast. our top story tonight -- the republican race for the white house. we're now exactly one week from the critical primary election in new york, where trump is hoping to take all of the state's 95 delegates. trump today campaigning in new york, in rome, new york where he kept up his attack on the republican national committee and the colorado republican party for how colorado decided to award their delegates without a vote being cast. fox news senior national correspondent john roberts is in rome, new york and has our report. >> reporter: donald trump started the day with much needed good news when missouri declared him the winner of last month's photo finish primary netting him an additional 12 delegates over ted cruz. trump was complaining about what happened in colorado over the weekend. >> our republican system is absolutely rigged. the republican national
committee, they should be ashamed of themselves for allowing this kind of crap to happen. >> reporter: because it has nothing to do with democracy. they took the votes away from the people in colorado. people are burning up their republican cards. >> reporter: colorado senator corey gardner took trump to task over complaints, tweeting -- gardner adding -- in california, ted cruz took glee in mocking trump's reaction to losing. >> he yells and screams and stamps his foot. he curses and yells, and insults anyone nearby. look, as we know in the state of california, wine is something best served with cheese. >> reporter: while he has a hill to climb to become the nominee trump is making a pivot to the general election
unveiling a new line of attack for a possible run against hillary clinton. >> her whole life has been a big fat beautiful lie. it's been a terrible, terrible lie. everything about her is a lie. >> reporter: and trump also indicated he is willing to make nice with some of his opponents, current and former. revealing he would consider john kasich, marco rubio and scott walker for vp pick or positions in his cabinet. >> not enough. >> reporter: kasich wasn't in a mood for trump's musings today. the governor who only on occasion dips toe in the water to criticize his opponents jumped in with both feet insisting trump and cruz would take america down a path to darkness. >> i've stood on a stage and washed with amazement as candidates wallowed in the mud, viciously attacked one another, called each other liars, and disparaged each other's character. those who continuously push
that type of behavior are not worthy of the office they are seeking. >> reporter: kasich's speech about two paths for america drew a rare zinger from the cruz campaign which said in a tweet that read irony, a man with no path reads a speech about two paths. getting rough out there, lou. lou: john roberts, thank you. our first guest tonight, one of the first congressman to endorse donald trump on capitol hill. joining us, republican congressman duncan hunter of california. he's now a cochairman of the trump campaign's house leadership committee. he serves on a number of key house committees including armed services. congressman, great to have you with us. let's start with your speaker deciding he's not going to permit his name to be put into nomination. your reaction. >> good, number one. he's a great speaker of the house. he ought to stay here and keep doing what he's doing. but if it's going to be
anybody, if these kinds of things are going to be done, should be somebody then whoet already run for president and has been in the debates and stood on the stage. one of the 17, not somebody from the outside because there's other folks out there that are smart, too. why shouldn't they be the republican nominee? lou: there are a lot of smart people as you say, but only three left in the contest. john roberts reported there's no pathway for john kasich, for example. so the two men standing at this point, truly, are your candidate donald trump and senator cruz. should it not be limited as rule 40 b from 2012 would suggest to the two who have won eight contests? >> should be, yeah. it should be left up to the people that the american people voted for up to this point predominantly, that's cruz and trump, and kasich in a sense. but cruz and trump should be the last two, that's it. let's get to that convention and fight it out and see what
happens in the end. i'm not a convention delegate guy. what i just kind of am is a straight shooter who likes donald trump. i like his bluntness, i like his priorities. that's why i stand behind him. lou: and in california, your state's going to have a lot to say about whether or not he makes the 1237. ted cruz is out there, he's campaigning hard. do you think trump can carry california? >> i think he can carry california. cruz was just in san diego, and the republican party in san diego actually turned it into a cruz rally. so it's not exactly a bunch of impartial parties in california, but i think trump carries him because california lost its middle class. there is no middle class in california anymore. what california has is the extremely wealthy and the people that serve the extremely wealthy. that's what happened in san diego and all over the state. all the manufacturing for the most part is gone. all the middle class has left
arizona and nevada, idaho, chased out by the california regulatory regime. trump carries a lot of weight and message will be clear. lou: you know, congressman, as you say that about california, the country itself, we've watched our middle class be cut over the course of the last 40 years, not grown. we are watching stagnant wages over the course of more than three decades in this country for our middle class. how can that message not resonate for donald trump in this country and this election this year? >> i think, if you live in states that haven't been as hurt by the exporting of millions of manufacturing jobs, if you're in one of those states where you're able to do something else and turn the tide or you have a good state government that has done as much as it can to keep those jobs in those states, that's where it's a little tougher for trump to win. but california is not one of
the states. lou: it's extraordinary. i want to turn quickly, serving on armed services, watching the chinese make it very clear that the obama withdrawal. the vacuums being created by this president and his waning months in office are just an invitation to their extension of power. your reaction to the news that chinese fighter jets have been discovered on woody island, in the spratlies, and that it looks like a confrontation could well ensue here. >> so this is not just china. this is the middle east too. this is places like georgia and ukraine, where america has not led where. we don't meet force with force. what president obama doesn't understand that i think donald trump does is that the rest of the world is not like us. western civilization only
exists in a few places, europe, the united states, you have a few other places around the world trying to come up to the level that we are, but most countries are not like us, so you can't deal with them like you're dealing from wisconsin to arizona. you have to understand where they come from and they come from a place of power and understand power when they see it and understand weakness when they see it. they understand that obama is weak, and that's why i think trump scares -- i was in israel. some of the folks that are not friendly to the u.s. are scared of a trump presidency because they understand that he brings a type of negotiating power that hasn't been seen in quite sometime, since george bush. lou: congressman, always good to have you with us, thank you so much. congressman duncan hunter. coming right back here, a lot more straight ahead. stay with us. anti-trump billionaires spending big money to stop trump from becoming the republican nominee. >> people are not going to take it anymore. we're not going to take it anymore.
it's a corrupt system. lou: who's playing who? will the corporatists and establishment elite succeed in destroying trump? what is trump doing about it? we take it up with wilbur ross here next. and a group of skateboarders with full access to a famous water park for one night only. it's go big or go home, and it's all caught on red bull video. ♪ these little guys? they represent blood cells. and if you have afib - an irregular heartbeat that may put you at five times greater risk of stroke - they can pool together in the heart, forming a clot that can break free, and travel upstream to the brain where it can block blood flow and cause a stroke. but if you have afib that's not caused by a heart valve problem, pradaxa can help stop clots from forming. pradaxa was even proven superior to warfarin at reducing the risk of stroke, in a clinical trial - without the need for regular blood tests. and, in the rare event of an emergency, pradaxa is the only oral blood thinner
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>> i think the geopolitics everywhere is the most unsettled i've ever seen it. here you have u.k. thinking about pulling out of the eu. spain having trouble forming a government. europe gradually putting up fences, where the shank and the free goods of people was one of the central ideas of the eu. lou: the foundation. >> to begin with. it's very, very unsettled. meanwhile have you china putting fighter jets on those little islands in the south seas. this is not a happy world. lou: not a happy world, and remarkably, we didn't even mention the middle east or a presidency that seems to shrinking inward. i'm not going to use -- i guess i am going to use it, the bunker mentality seized this president. what would be the motivation
for the cia? >> i'm certainly no cia expert, but my guess would be they would be wanting to send someone a message. it's hard to imagine if it really was the cia that this got out without them leaking it, and if they did leak it, it must have been they want to send a message to someone. lou: foreign or domestic? >> foreign or domestic, right, or both. lou: or both! [laughter]. lou: those are the times in which we live. does trump make it to the nomination? >> i think he has a good shot. i think california will be the real test. he's got to take a pretty clean sweep in california to get to the numbers and/or make a deal with one of the other candidates that has some delegates. more likely either a kasich or rubio than a ted cruz. lou: the last two fellas with, let's see, you got john kasich running in fourth place. >> he's doing pretty well in new york, kasich. lou: right.
>> he's certainly running ahead of cruz. lou: and i'm not sure that we can call that well, but he's running better than cruz. >> second is better than third. lou: amen, brother. wilbur, good to see you. >> thanks. >> wilbur ross. breaking news, former new orleans saints star will smith had a loaded .9 millimeter handgun in his vehicle on the night he was shot and killed. there is no evidence that suggests the gun was fired. investigators also found a fully loaded revolver inside the suspect cardell hayes's car. officials have not indicated to whom the two weapons actually belonged or whether they were registered. after that saturday night shooting, police confiscated a third gun at the scene, the 35 caliber handgun they say hayes used to shoot smith and his wife. surveillance video has been released from a new orleans restaurant that appears to show
a hit-and-run incident between two vehicles just minutes before smith was fatally shot. be sure to vote in our poll tonight, and the question tonight is -- cast your vote on twitter -- . lou: the folks at red bull at it again, we're grateful. when the aqua venture water park in dubai temporarily closed for maintenance, they took full advantage. that's right, going down a water park without water. they're professional skateboarders. got the chance to perform death defying stunts on the anaconda, the world's largest water slide. look at this.
wow! complete with music. you love that? that has got to be a skateboarders' dream, fascinating and fun to watch, certainly. wow. red bull, good job. up next, donald trump on a mission to bring back transparency to american politics. >> they don't want me to self fund my campaign. they don't want it because you know what? they're all controlled by the special interests. they're all controlled by their lobbyists, 100%. lou: 100%. will he prevail? that's the subject of my commentary coming up next, stay with us, we'll be right back. at mfs investment management,
for negative ads directed at trump. nearly 70 million targeting. some 23 million coming from three super pacs alone, the koch linked american future fund, the club for growth, and our principles pac. doesn't it sound benign? our principles. sole mission is to destroy trump at any cost. the romney related our principle's pac is turning to the delegate fight. looking for anti-trump delegates in the event of a contested convention, trump already battling to keep delegates in arizona and arkansas, louisiana, tennessee, virginia. unprecedented effort and ground operations being bankrolled by billionaires like stan hubbard, paul single, the ricketts family as well. speaking of the ricketts family, todd ricketts reportedly planning a meeting
of top republican done nors new york city next week. speaker paul ryan may be in attendance. despite urging delegates today to, quote, count me out as he put it for the gop nomination. i believe the republican establishment and the elites are apoplectic as they watch their influence over presidential candidates and presidential politics just dwindling. so for now, what will the establishment and the elites do to win? and is there any possibility that they've come to their senses and will work with trump to unify the republican party? i don't think so either. but, we'll see. and our quotation of the evening from none other than donald trump. trump said -- a lot of the rich people right now are demonstrating his point.
we're coming right back. stay with us. speaker ryan's big money donors want him to run for president, but he says he's absolutely, positively not running, no way. >> let me be clear, i do not want, nor will i accept, the nomination for our party. lou: ryan says he's out, so who will be the nominee? we take it up with former speaker newt gingrich here next. and this fisherman thinks he's caught the catfish of the day. little does he know he's reeling in something a little bigger and a lot more dangerous. every insurance policy has a number. but not every insurance company understands the life behind it. for those who've served and the families that have supported them, we offer our best service in return. usaa. we know what it means to serve.
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listerine® kills 99% of bad breath germs so you can feel 100% in life. bring out the bold™. . lou: here are some poll numbers that may surprise you. democratic socialist bernie sanders is the best liked presidential candidate from either party, according to a new ap-jfk poll. sanders at 48%. at the bottom of the list, irony, ted cruz and donald trump tied at 26%. joining us best-selling author, 2012 presidential candidate, former speaker of the house newt gingrich. newt, great to have you with us. >> thanks, lou. lou: i want your reaction to the new polls out of new york. putting trump at 60%. 54%. your reaction. >> well, look, the 60% poll is
breathtaking, i was ready for trump to be at 52, 54. if the poll is accurate and he comes in next week at 60% or more and if cruz comes in a very distant third, i think that this is really a game-changer in a big way. first of all at 60% trump's almost certainly going to get all 95 delegates and if you pick up 95 to zero that moves him ahead in the delegate race. second it's hard for cruz if he's in third place to argue he's the main alternative, and i think particularly if that's followed by pennsylvania, connecticut, rhode island, new jersey, all of which may look very similar, and by the time they get to indiana, they look like these kind of states. something is happening out there that's i think very powerful. lou: two states, you mentioned one of them, the other california. if trump takes that, it looks like he's got a path to 1237, would you agree?
before the convention. >> sure, look, if he comes out of new york at 95-0 he clearly will have a path to get to 1237. if he wins in california by a fairly significant margin, picking up two-thirds of the delegates, you would have the number before you got to the convention, but remember there's about a six week period there where trump, who's a very good negotiator and made a lifetime of billions of dollars negotiating, if he goes in a full-court press with the undecided delegates, the marco rubio delegates, et cetera, he may well pick up 100 or 150 delegates between california and the convention because most republicans, not all of them, but most republicans think if he's that far ahead, it's a lot better to get him to be the nominee than to somehow try to stop him at the last second and guarantee a huge floor fight in cleveland. >> the people who seem to want
to have that fight who are funding the fight at this point, most of them are billionaires, using super pacs and every other means at their disposal, to stop trump. i mean, you are surprised at just the animated opposition on the part of these people to donald trump? >> no, i'm really not, trump violates almost all of their core characteristics. he's an entrepreneur, not a corporate leader, not a finance guy in a traditional sense, he builds things, builds buildings, builds hotels, casinos, he builds golf courses. he's a salesman, he's p.t. barnum. he creates "the apprentice" as the number one tv show. if you're a slightly normal reticent billionaire watching this guy who's a show boat and think that doesn't feel right and realize he's not coming to
you for permission. he's not coming to you to be ambassador. he represents a totally new force in american politics. he's raising fundamental questions about current policies and that rattles everybody in the traditional establishment, and that's part of why you see the resistance to him. lou: he's the fundamental disruptor, all of the candidates in this race, in either party, including bernie sanders, who is taking the democratic party in directions it didn't dream it was ready for, but trump is so fundamental in his disruption because he is talking about trade. he's talking about immigration, he's talking about the health of the middle class, talking about the preemnence in republican ideology of the family, the working man and woman and the american dream. >> let's be very clear. bernie sanders is not disruptive. bernie sanders is a natural continuation of the obama socialism. you look at what obama's done
in education, look at what he's done in health care, look again and again what he's doing, obama would be perfectly comfortable with sanders socialism because they're indistinguishable. lou: right. >> the disruptive force in this election is donald trump. partly because he's a businessman and he thinks like a businessman and he applies business analysis in a way which breaks up all the washington think tanks and all the folks who were in this policy stuff because a businessman has a different calculus of what works and what doesn't work than does either a lawyer or academic, so trump truly is the most disruptive force in modern times in american politics. i tell people, you have to go back and look at andrew jackson as a genuine disruptor, theodore roosevelt's energy level and p.t. barnum salesmanship. you begin to get the outline of a donald trump. lou: newt gingrich, thanks for being with us, look forward to talking with you soon. >> thanks.
>> thanks. newt gingrich. a louisiana fisherman thought he caught the big one. he thought he was reeling in a catfish as you see here. >> my gosh, that's a big [ bleep ]. lou: seems to be moving faster, and perhaps we can see the reason for that there. no, that's not a catfish. no, that's a very large alligator on the other side. he wisely began paddling. i think paddling like hell is the expression. i mean, he did better -- he maintained his poise pretty well. give him credit. he was a bit ashamed to throw away the bait, the hook, the line, the sinker, everything. nobody hurt, a great story to tell. please stay tuned for the fox news special donald trump, the disruptor. bret baier giving us an inside
look at the trump presidential campaign talking with the trump family, his friends, supporters, the candidate himself airing right after the show, that begins at 8:00 p.m. eastern right here on the fox business network. up next, donald trump predicts the united states on the verge of recession. >> what i said is we're going to go into a massive recession, but i also say, if i'm president, it's not going to happen, because i'm going to straighten things out before it happens. it's going to be a mess. lou: we take all of that up with economist dr. arthur laffer. president reagan's personal economist. he'll be with us next. stay with us. [dad] i wear a dozen different hats
. lou: america no longer the top country to achieve the american dream, according to new york fed president william dudley. dudley says because income mobility has remained unchanged. folks have better ods of attaining the american dream in denmark or canada. well, joining us arthur laffer, former member of president reagan's economic policy board. dr. laffer, good to have you with us. >> thank you very much, lou, pleasure being with you.
lou: we're talking about a race, the likes of which none of us has seen in our lifetime, and donald trump is focusing on the middle class. people suddenly are aware. they felt it, but he is now articulating the fact that wages have been stagnant for nearly 40 years for the middle class, that our middle class is shrinking, not growing, over the course of the past 40 years, and that we have got to come to terms of the consequences of policies that have been disastrous like 40 years, 40 consecutive years, of trade deficits and $19 trillion in debt. >> yeah, you know, remember, that the 40 years you're talking about in the trade deficit and the amount of federal deficit as well are consequences of bad policies. they aren't the bad policies themselves. the bad policies are tack the rich, subsidize the people who don't have jobs. all of these things have done
it. have negative interest rates. the poor people spending themselves into wealth. you want a low rate, broad-based tax lou. spending restraint, minimal regulations and let the free market solve it. lou: professor, if i may, if i may, i'm a free marketeer, too. >> i know you are. lou: after you watched 40 years of consecutive trade deficits without relief and devastating consequences, donald trump in rome, new york talking with a big rally there about the fact they've lost half their manufacturing jobs over 25 years. it goes to every state in the union has similar stories. >> it's terrible yoot reality is our public policy. the two impulses that work in our body politic. one is libertarian philosophy which is basically on one level saying no one is responsible for anything, but most
especially the government, and on the other level, free trade, laissez-faire which i don't have to make a conscious public policy choice because hands off and i'm not responsible. at some point we have to take responsibility and ownership, you and i know full well we cannot permit to continue for the middle class in this country. >> you are completely correct, lou. the only thing i would suggest is that we have been punishing manufacturing jobs in the u.s. we have the highest single corporate tax rate in the oecd, who wants to move production here? no one. we have state taxes that are very anti-production, output employment. other countries are bitter. i hope i'm not going over anyone's heads. lou: only mine, only mine. >> i never go over your head. you've got this wired. a and b, if you raise taxes and lower them in a, producers are going to move from b to a.
because of obama, because of the w, because of the taxes on our production. lou: for a middle class family, working man or woman in this country, hearing you talk or any one of us talk about taxes, lower taxes for corporate america. that doesn't diminish their pain, doesn't expand their future horizons and hopes or opportunities at all. we've got to go beyond that, and one of the things that donald trump is doing is going beyond that. he's saying point-blank in plain language, we're going to stop the nonsense. and you've got to be cheering that. >> i do, i do cheer it. lou: do you endorse him? >> no, i don't endorse anyone. lou: ted cruz? >> i don't endorse ted cruz. i like both trump and cruz. i couldn't have pick it out better rates and the training ground they're doing, this campaign is a tough campaign, and these guys are getting skilled. they'll just beat the living
tar out of hillary clinton. we'll win 45 states. i don't think he's going to win the nomination, if he does he'll beat the tar out of bernie, too. these guys are great. lou: with that, we're taking your most recent economic forecast. >> 45 states, the republicans are going to take in the final election. lou: go big or go home. >> we'll go big or go home. and trump is saying great things 15,% corporate tax. ted cruz, 16% flat tax on business. lou: sounds like trump won there, he's 1% better. >> higher than personal income. it's a race to the neck and i love this race. lou: arthur laffer, love having you on. >> thank you. lou: up next, speaker ryan ruling out a run for president. do you feel relief? we've heard his denials, however, before. >> does paul ryan want to be speaker? >> no, he doesn't.
>> do you want to be speaker? >> no. >> why not? >> i don't want to be speaker. lou: seems so credible there, didn't he? can we believe ryan this time? jedidiah bila and matt schlapp take up that very issue, and where is donald trump and where is ted cruz, and why aren't they in the same place and what will be the result? will be the result? stay with us. this is my retirement. retiring retired tires. and i never get tired of it. are you entirely prepared to retire? plan your never tiring retiring retired tires retirement with e*trade. i don't want to live with the uncertainties of hep c. plan your never tiring retiring retired tires retirement or wonder whether i should seek treatment. i am ready. because today there's harvoni. a revolutionary treatment for the most common type of chronic hepatitis c. harvoni is proven to cure up to 99% of patients who've had no prior treatment. it's the one and only cure that's
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lou: joining us tonight. the head of the conservative movement america. matt schlapp. and jedediah by. lou: let's start with paul ryan. >> i don't think he wants the job. there are people who want to beg paul ryan and mitt romney to run. people forget that paul ryan was already on a presidential ticket and was extremely disappointing. he went from this guy who was heavy talk to being an interests electric time weakling when he
ran on that ticket, in my opinion. get some of your dvrs and roll that tape back. lou: are you relieved or heartbroken ryan has withdrawn his name? >> i think it was the smart thing for him to withdraw his name. i think it would be absurd for my party to look beyond ted cruz or donald trump. paul ryan said it would be absurd to not let someone who has run for the presidency to be a candidate. but i seemed to open the door to all 17. lou: that spent jim gilmore was back in the race. >> don't forget jeb bush. lou: who could? who would.
these billionaire donors. going after trump. why can't they see that it's cruz or it's trump and this not anything in between? >> it's desperation. there are people who cannot stand donald trump to such an extent, they think somehow the more money they spend they will be able to get people away from him. money or negative ads or anybody will take 8 who wins. it's tough. the one thing that has been missing from the last two presidential candidates is toughness. it's someone who is not only going debates the candidates. but tough policies from people around the world who lnlt going to deal with and won't take garbage. that's why ted cruz is dig in his heels. lou: your thoughts on trump in particular. i's saying the party rigged the
game. he's say together anti-establishment crowds that ahe attracts by the tens of thousands and he would say millions. and he would be right in the cumulative. they are not going to have it with an establishment that insists on disenfranchising a million voters at a time as the colorado party did. what do you think? >> i think there are plenty of ways in which he should criticize this presidential nominating process. it's arcane. but by the same token, i think donald trump has done a good job of navigating these rules and winning a lot of primaries and caucuses. what his campaign needs to do, i know there is a rhetorical strategy of pushing back. they have to lock it down in new york and the northeastern states and take it to california. lou: let me ask you about
40-b requiring 8 victories, it would make it between cruz and trump, period, no questions asked. do you think lit and smart idea for them to preserve? >> in this scenario i don't like that rule. the romney rule. but it should be either trump or cruz. but they can change the rules at any point. keep your eye on the ball. >> these are the guys that fought the hard fight. bring them back into the circle, they are going to make the same mistakes. lou: matt schlapp, thank you for being with us. and jedediah bila. our online poll said you don't think anyone should give a darn about speaker ryan's agenda.
well be he's still got one. that's it for us. before we go,wo books we would like to recommend.janine. we'll see you next saturday same time >> they are bringing crime and they are rapist. donald trump is rewriting the rule book. >> i don't know what i said. >> i would like to punch him in the face. >> they would be carried outa a stretcher. >> and people are punching back as well. could he be the future president? >> i hope he can save my job. >> i have a hard time imagining that the establishment would have the