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tv   Countdown to the Closing Bell With Liz Claman  FOX Business  May 9, 2016 3:00pm-4:01pm EDT

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our economy great and really questioning all of that, which is why donald trump talking about negotiating better trade deals really starts to make an impact on voters. anyway i want to thank steve moore, jeff flock, all of my guests. governor huckabee as well for joining me this afternoon. liz claman is going to take you. liz: yeah, trish, we're going to stay with this story because what i want to focus on is that line of police officers more to the left of the screen. more police are arriving on scene at this hour as you look at live pictures of these protesters in chicago, illinois. specifically the protests are outside of headquarters run by famed money man griffin. the return of moral monday. coalition of grassroots activists absolutely infuriated by a long impact by illinois. the success of presidential candidate bernie sanders, enterprised by a donald trump nomination. so what you're seeing now is
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the entrance to the building, by the way, this is the cross-street of adams. if you know the chicago area, these are big buildings, major areas and the protesters have taken tote streets to push for higher taxes on businesses and the wealthy. let me get right now to fox business jeff flock who is in the thick of it in chicago, illinois. jeff, tell me first what you're seeing at this very moment and how you feel it's ramping up hoar perhaps calming down. >> well, somewhere in between, liz, i think you're looking at a live picture now at acid del headquarters. police attempting to take the intrans back all afternoon, these entrances have been completely -- protesters saying shut it down. that's essentially what they've done. let's set the scene for you, though. david come on and follow me in. i want to show you what this looks like from the street. this is dearborn street and there is is the crowd of protesters that remain here. i say it's about as many
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people as have been here. they have been begun making arrests, though, in the last hour or so, police sort of setting up kind of a line here with their bikes. and people attempting to be allowed into the building here. people now with their ids. you can see their building ids are out and allowing people for the first time to enter the main entrance of the building. all of these people here with their ids are presumably employees, or some other office inside the building. and this is a huge building i should point out that ken griffin had built to house citadel and you're seeing pictures of now people finally being able to get back in. let's follow us around here. again, more employees that perhaps you see. and i don't know if any of them -- probably not thrilled to have cameras in their face at this point. but there you go. were you kept outside for a long period of time? anybody? kept outside for a long period of time?
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>> i've been out here for 45 minutes. >> what do you make of all of this? >> it's just democracy. >> i like that. >> a good job, though, i thought. >> police did a good job he says. there you go. one more thing, liz, talk while i get around to it. liz: sure we have a photo of protesters. as you make your way to the end of this line of people trying to get into the building, we're looking at this picture of protesters who locked armed and police had to use a saw to separate them. clearly the emotion ramped up since that picture was taken. and taken about the last 23 minutes. >> yeah. we had live pictures of that going on. what happened is the protesters gained access to the building. they had handcuffed themselves together inside a cylinder that is the that was not just a simple thing to get loose. and the police took maybe an hour to finally coming up with angle grinders and reciprocating saws to cut the
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cuffs apart. so this was a well organized protest. you're looking at a squad roll right now. people asked me what's a squad roll? that's the term in chicago, but it's one of these vehicles in which protesters are housed until they're taken to the booking. you can see perhaps not tremendously inside but that's full of people that have been arrested. liz: yeah, we can see some people. i think it's really important to note for people who are just tuning in who may be in los angeles or, you know, omaha, nebraska or in thi new mexico what is this about? it is about the fact that illinois lawmakers have had an ugly fight over the state budget. they cannot get it done. they've cut about a billion dollars from the education budget alone since 2009. you've got massive issues, jeff, am i not correct? 113-year-old high school in harrisburg, illinois is going
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to have to close its doors unfunded? you have handlers who can't hire drivers because the state isn't paying the bills? it's unbelievable what is going on. >> that is what has brought this to a head, liz. you can always disagree about the budget. but they don't have a budget. there is no budget. so spending has been cut off other than the courts have -- ordered a couple of areas for spending to continue. but most of the states money is not being spent right now. so i guess you could argue, well, they've got a lot of money in the bank. but programs have been cut, education has been cut, it has really eliminated jobs, eliminated people's ability to go to school. and it's gotten people very angry. it's important, though, i think to also know what they're asking for today. they would like attacks, tax loopholes closed on corporations in illinois, which would raise about $2.5 billion. they want to graduated income tax, and i know people glaze
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over on tax. but that is to say the wealthy people pay more than the wealthy people. right now everybody pays the same rate. also want a tax on the trades that take place at the cme. it would be a very small tax but as you know there are literally millions of trades that take place at the cme on a regular basis and even if you tax pennies, it would rack up quite a bit of money. and there's no tax currently on anything that goes on at the cme. profits are taxed. but just making the trade is not taxed. they argue it should be like i went into a store, i bought something, i had to pay a tax. if you're going to make a trade, you pay a tax. liz: i think we need to get to our guests, please stand by, we're going to keep this warm r camera up as you see these crowds that seem to be growing at the moment. but, again, relatively calm, i want to stress that. let's bring into this conversation steven moore who was with trish in the last hour but agreed to stay with us, with the heritage
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foundation, fox news contributor and democratic strategist. looking at what's going on, it seems a bit -- and i fully understand the emotion that these people have, especially when you hear that high schools are closing down, waste management drivers can't be paid. but it's a little miss guided it seems to be protesting a guy like ken griffin which, by the way, i want our viewers to know has donated some $500 million to all kinds of charities. many of them in chicago. instead of getting angry at the actual lawmakers here. >> yeah. they ought to be protesting in front of the state government office buildings because they've had massive budget problems in illinois. they've had public pension mess that has been gone on and on, that doesn't seem to be addressed. and whatever ken griffin might do with his private business, he's taking taxes, and probably among the group of top 1%. liz: but they have a loophole. >> but 19% of the people make the national income and pay 37% tax.
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so they should direct their anger at lawmakers who are squandered money. and as a consequence have schools closing rather than getting wealthy pension ears getting retirement money. liz: can you imagine a 113-year-old high school in harrisburg, illinois may have to close because they have no money. so who does this help? you've got the bernie sanders of the world who say ramp up 90% tax rates for the rich. you've got even donald trump saying that he'll give tax cuts but that he is going to moderate the ones to the kathy. he would like the wealthy to pay a bit more of the fair share. he says i'm fine with it, and i know wealthy people who are willing to pay more. >> well, i think what you're seeing on the streets of chicago is the left-hand side of the anger that has been coming out on both sides of the primary this year. you're seeing what we are expecting our mostly bernie sanders supporters taking their anger directly out on what they perceive to be the wealthiest of the wealthy. it's not enough for them to go
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to the state legislature and protest. they want to go to what they believe is the source of the problem and make their point. the question becomes is this anything that is ever going to come to fruition? are we really looking at taxing the wealthy% at 50, 60, 70%? the answer is no. i'm a democrat i'm saying that. the real issue is where is this anger coming from and how do we both in washington and state legislatures across this country address what the people in america want? which is schools that stay open, teachers that are well paid, clean water, and an infrastructure that works. the real question is why isn't that happening when we're all paying a lot of taxes to begin with? . liz: well, steven moore throw the bombs out. you've got a legislature. you have a state government that cannot get its act together and now guys like ken griffin who employ people in
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chicago and the cme and the gang over there. i wish people understand the traders at the cme are very middle class, many of them. you want to do that? then you are going to lose jobs. this has become very miss guided, has it not? >> it has been miss guided. and people should realize if you're not from illinois, and i am, liz, i grew up in illinois. spent the first 22 years of my life there. i know illinois politics. illinois is one of the most three or four liberal states in the country in terms of how it's governed. so if you have problems of how it turns out in illinois, you can't blame -- republicans and democrats have run the state for 25 years. but you now have a system, liz, where almost one and four, one and five tax dollars are -- where do they go? they go to pensions. so this is the tip of an iceberg. you're going to see this in a lot of other states. so why are they closing down schools? the main reason is because so
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much of the money is going to retired teachers and police officers and, you know, maintenance workers, and they don't even live in illinois anymore. so it's just an outflow of money from that state. the other thing to consider, liz, and we've done isn't analysis of this. the big problem for illinois is it's losing its rich people. they're moving day after day after day. i literally know scores of millionaires that have moved out of the state, they're moving to florida, moving to texas, they're moving to places without any income tax at all. my point is. liz: yeah, and see how that works for people who are able to -- who were going to work there. and, jeff, you're standing by because then. tell us the field of the crowd here because i looked at this and i thought this may be a voter volcano about to blow and spread across the united states, which is something we don't want to see obviously. we want to fix these issues. >> well, that's absolutely true. but i'll tell you this was never a violent crowd. we've been in multiple protests in chicago,
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mcdonald's, for example, come& while some of the same folks are here, this is not the kind of thing. what this is a reason or argument or position. and, by the way, there's one more arrest that will take place. we believe they have been blocking this last door. and i think they're going to -- they're going to agree to not be arrested. there was one person sitting that was going to get arrested. and the police were waiting for that but they're now just fighting not to be arrested. they've got enough people arrested. >> these are people that, you know, they believe very strongly in their message. and they were never -- somebody came up to us earlier during an earlier broadcast, held up a finger. it was not the pointer and said some fowl language. and the other protesters around says he does not speak for us. we want our message to be heard. we are not looking to -- we are going to disrupt. we're going to be engaging in
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civil disobedience, but we do not want this to turn into a circus. that is not what this is. liz: and i think the crowd is for the very most part has definitely done that, which makes their message slightly more legitimate certainly. but this is going to come up. people are going to ask hillary clinton and donald trump and bernie sanders what do you say about that? and just today, donald trump had said -- and i don't want to ignore the markets, by the way. we do have a slightly lower market. but, folks, this is very much a is toker that translates across the united states for many people who feel they have gotten the shortened of the societal stick. >> yeah. and, look, i think there's a solution to all of this. and that's one word. growth. people are talking about economic growth. this economy grew at 0.5% last quarter. that's horrible. the economy growing at three, four, 5, there would be money coming in, be able to pay the pensioners, we have money coming in through tax revenues because of economic growth and economic activity, there's enough money to to take care
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of this stuff, if you have a tight, dead economy, it leads to all economic problems, economic and social and otherwise. liz: it's true. we need solutions here. and if you look at, say, for example, bernie sanders tax plan, i think it has something, like, 18 trillion to the national debt or brings it to that. and there are all kinds of problems nobody on either side has a tax plan that doesn't add to the deficit. >> it's a very fair point because we are already running deficits. so obviously to increase spending, to try to get our economy moving again, we would increase those deficits. i think, though, that the answer to some of our problem is not only economic growth but wage growth. we have enormous wage stagnation in this country right now. and if people do not have extra money in their pockets, they're not walking into retailers and buying more goods. if they're not buying more goods, we're not making more goods. and that contributes to lower
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economic growth. so in a way, it's a vicious cycle. the fact that large corporations are not increasing their wages, the fact that states across this country are not increasing the minimum wage means that the middle class is feeling far, far more crunched. and frankly, i think that's a lot of what you're seeing on the streets of chicago today. are these saying we don't make enough money, you make too much money. why is this happening? . liz: well, it's resonating with bernie sanders voters. and it's resonating with donald trump voters. i want to thank deroy, i want to thank steve moore. we appreciate you being here. jeff flock and his camera are going to remain up on the screen. i want viewers to know that. but going from the outside to the inside. let's take it to the traders on the floor show. and chris robins, you're at the cme. i know you have walked out many times and saw the protesters there. what are your thoughts on a day like this? >> i have mixed feelings. i'm glad we live in a country that can protest like this but
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the people who are protesting have a skewed version of how to fix things. i don't think they realize now the way the markets are if you push people out of chicago, they'll take the servers and go to a state where they don't have high income taxes. that's the ultimate trump card that the cme really holds over the city. so there's a fine line between the economic justice and overcharging people to the point where they leave. so that's kind of -- that's going to be a tipping point. i'm going to be interested to see how it works out. liz: yeah, i mean i think as we watch these protests, everything has been relatively peaceful. we want people to know that. tim, you're at the new york stock exchange. we're looking at a market here down for the industrial by 12 points, what do you want people to know that traders make all of this money? floor traders are a different
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breed. >> well, certainly they are. and there's really two different activities that you have to talk about. you have to talk about the brokerage activity where floor traders are really executing orders for mutual funds and money managers. and then individual proprietary traders. now, on the floor of the new york, there really aren't any individual proprietary traders anymore like there are on the -- on the merck and the board of trading and commodities. liz: yeah, and i think it's an important point to be stressing here that if you start taxing trades. look, these guys in the cme, they pay their corporate taxes. but perhaps it's an issue right now at least if i were to go inside the brains of the protesters that they would like to see some loopholes closed but the real problem stems from chicago from the budget because there isn't a budget. and i want to get to luka. the games were gone after early morning moves, and we
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now have oil moving lower after we get a quick touch on what happened, i don't want to ignore the fact that you had a major switcheroo who has for many decades been in charge of the saudi oil industry. he's out and they're bringing in a guy who has been groomed. is that a factor here because at the moment we have crude down. >> yeah. that's the biggest story in the crude. we're going to have to wait and see what they have planned to do with it. so that's probably the biggest story with crude this year. and right now you look at earnings and some of the stocks, we've had a lot of earnings. not anything hitting it out of the park. so that goes with the former that growth is slow. and if growth is slow, oil demand is going to be slow. we'll see how the summer driving season goes but the rest of the year is going to be interesting. liz: yeah, that's true. but if you're talking about earnings overall, i would like to give a nod to facebook and
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amazon and those companies have been doing steroidal well. look at the s&p 500 up five points as the crowds continue. interestingly enough, i've covered a lot of these as has jeff flock and usually by 3:00 p.m. eastern, 2:00 p.m. chicago time, the crowd starts to disburse. jeff, this feels a little bit different to me, am i correct? >> yes. i think we may be nearing an end and all of the people that have been -- yeah, you're getting a life word of the end of the protest. let's just listen. >> 19 of our brave sisters and brothers have been arrested as we interrupted businesses, and we have asked him to look at what he's doing and pay his fair share. [cheers and applause] we've got to keep up -- we have to make sure that ken --
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>> i'm sure he follows the tax rule if he follows -- liz: yeah, and i would also like -- i want to point out because we've pointed this out before. he started his hedge fund when he was in college out of his dorm room. even paid to have a little satellite dish put up. this guy is going to succeed no matter how much you tax him. however, he has given half a billion dollars to charities. many of them for under privileged organizations, you know? so, steven moore, you're saying? sorry chris robinson, go ahead. >> well, i just want to say there's always this implication somehow he's not paying his fair share. i'm sure he's following the tax laws. i'm sure he's got tax accountants he's doing everything legal. at the end of the he is a lightning rod because he is successful and well-known. so, you know, do you want to celebrate success or do you want to tax success? he's taken risk in everything he's doing, and i just think at the end of the day, again,
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you run the risk of tipping the scales to the point where people don't want to take risk if you're not going to get rewarded. and where is the calculus to say that this is enough? this is too much? this is not enough? that has to get figured out by the legislature. liz: and would it help -- steven, are you with me? >> i'm with you, yeah. liz: would it help with the carried interested plan that helps big henning fund guys changecompensation? and therefore they end up getting taxed at a 15% rate versus what the rest of us are at. 30, 40, 50%. you know, everyone always says it's so small, a rounding error, there are so few people getting that carried interest break. but it might make those people feel a little bit better and the system fairer. donald trump is saying get rid of that. >> well, liz, just a couple of quick points. one is you're talking about a hedge fund manager who makes hundreds of millions of dollars a year. he may end up doing -- if they
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move to this 7 or 8% tax rate that a lot of the protesters would like to see, people like that are going to move, they're going to move out of the state to florida. liz: yeah, but i'm talking about a federal tax role to remove that loop hope -- >> yeah. i've got it. on this carried interest loophole i like what some of the republican candidates are talking about, get rid of the loophole so that we bring more jobs to america. look, if we cut our business tax in washington, if we were to cut that down to below the international average, guess what? businesses would move back to chicago. you would have more people working, you would have higher wages. i agree with what was said earlier. the biggest problem right now, liz, in america is it's been ten years since the average middle class worker has seen a pay raise. they're financially stressed out. and when they get did increasingly stressed out, you see these kinds of protesters and i believe you're going to see more of these -- with more in the next few months. liz: and let's not forget the under funded pension issue
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because you have people who paid back into it. go ahead, jeff flock. and now they don't have when it comes to them. >> and that's what they would like some of that money to be spent on. and, you know, i would make the point about these protests, it's a matter of fairness. and what happens is you could demonstrate against the legislature, but that has never gotten any kind of traction. so they target people like ken griffin who is making a ton of money. put the pressure -- liz: shame. shame. shame. because if he's not breaking the rules, and he's paying the government -- >> but he's not. liz: who is paid to get it right? >> the problem would be the rules -- liz: an outrage. >> exactly. >> the problem is the rule. not the person. liz: let me just get to adam shapiro. he has covered the pension fights. and, adam, if you look at this, you feel sympathy for the teachers and police officers who years and years
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paid into the pension and now the pension is under funded and the situation is dire and a mess. >> they're under funded because the economists, he's at stanford, well repented, and we interviewed him two years ago on this term of the pension crowd. you heard steve moore talk about when you reach a threshold of one out of every $5, 20% of tax revenue going to fund penguins, you get these kinds of protests because the only way to fund them is to cut services. which pointed out you can't blame the people, the teachers, and the firefighters, and the police officers who agree to the deals where they were being paid this money. blame the politicians who never funded the pensions for 30 years. and look at the states where this is going to hit next. new jersey, connecticut, all of them horribly under funded n- public pensions. these are the public pensions we're talking about. and josh was the first economist to add and calculate how much under funded pensions the liability will hit taxpayers in the coming years. it's over $4 trillion.
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but remember, illinois, connecticut, new jersey, among the worst funded in the country. liz: yeah, and i just want to say, liz, i am a resident of new jersey. and governor after governor on both sides of the aisle, mcgreevey, chris christie, they cannot figure this out because somebody is going to take a mile. one second, liz, go ahead. >> well, i think you make a really interesting point frankly about, you know, this is a very difficult political question. no one wants to have their taxes raised. people who make $40,000 a year $400,000, a year, $4 million a year, no one wants to give the government our money. but what we enjoy is all of the things that the government pays for. our clean water, clean air, military, streets, public schools, et cetera. it's a very difficult political question as to how
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we keep our question thriving and our citizens -- >> and, by the way, in the public sector when this sort of things happens, we just call them unfunded pension liabilities. if a private company took money to put aside and spent something else, that's called embezzlement. liz: steve, go ahead. >> liz, i know a lot about chicago and a lot about illinois. the scandal is how much they're paying for schools. so, for example, in chicago, where arguably chicago has the worst public schools in the country, maybe not the worst but in the top three or four. they're paying 16, $18,000 per student. where is the money going? that's what people are frustrated about. liz: what warren buffett said. >> let me just get one point. you can get a better indication in the catholic school system at half of the cost in chicago. >> that's ridiculous. hour dare you. no. you have absolutely no proof of that whatsoever. >> yes, you do. you get higher test scores for
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half the cost. >> 30 people -- >> it's very well known. >> 600 people congratulating from the class -- >> and, boy, -- liz: last i checked, and last i checked, steven, i have covered more catholic schools closing because there wasn't enough money where -- i mean i can tell you. in cleveland, the jews were being asked to raise money for the catholic schools. and they did. and they still closed. >> that's not right, liz. the reason a lot of these reasons catholic schools are closing is because they don't have kids in the area. what i'm asking is give the parents -- give them $10,000 rather than spend $18,000, send them to a catholic school that works, giving a much better education system. we have that in washington d.c. it has improved. improve the education and reduced -- liz: this government overall, nationwide is putting $600 billion into k through 12. and if we have a problem with bad public education, it's not because we're cheap. and i'm quoting warren buffett
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on that. per capita. go ahead, jeff flock. >> no. it's luke. >> i just want to make the point that these problems -- >> liz, it's luke. i lived in illinois for about 20 years. i moved there about 1993, i live in connecticut now. within the last 20 years, how many governors have gone to prison for fraud in illinois? how many alderman have been indicted? this is unrelated to the stuff we're talking about income inequality. but how about getting rid of some of the fraud in government? >> absolutely right. absolutely related. it's absolutely related. liz: i agree, jeff. >> these problems with people appropriating money to pensions and then not actually putting money in there, this took place under both republican and democratic administrations and both republican and democratic legislatures. i mean, you know, we talked about ken griffin not being a problem. no, the problem is the rules. the problem is the system. and i think that's what you're seeing in the electorate in
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this presidential primary campaign season is that rebellion against this system and somebody who's not the system. and that's what the trumps and the sanders represent. liz: yeah. we just want to give people an update. 19 people have been detained. 19 people detained. it looks like there's a little bit of a breaking up at this event. >> we're done. liz: it looks like it's over. there you go. and adam shapiro wanted to get in here on this. but, again, very peaceful. >> yeah,. liz: please keep that in mind and except for the one guy that held up a finger and as jeff likes to say, it wasn't the pointer. it seemed to be pretty peaceful. >> wasn't the pinkie either. liz: go ahead, adam. >> this is very simple. in 1972, congress set out the pension, they could have at that time use rules governed private penguins, public pensions, they chose not to. public pension law is not the same as private.
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and politicians on both sides of the aisle, democrats and republicans for years have made deals with unions in which they say we don't give you the pay raise you want right now because we're going to give it to you when you retire. so they've delayed funding, the contracts that they've made and that contract has now come due. that's what you're witnessing. keep an eye on texas. texas has done it too. severe under funding for decades across the country. liz: i think luke made the point. it is -- get the bombs out. they are just a mess. we also have income inequality. but to have this, to stage this protest, and we can rerack some of the other video where it was really getting heated up to stage it outside, ken griffin citadel, which is a hedge fund is a little miss guided because hedge fund profits are not taxed like carried interest, which is capital gains, that's more of the private equity world. ken pays ordinary income tax on hedge fund revenue.
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melissa franz was weighing in on this earlier. she's absolutely right. and to say that he isn't paying his fair share simply because he makes so much, he's not breaking the law. i just want to make that very clear. that doesn't mean that the pain of these protesters is any less. but the anger -- and i pretty much believe that jeff flock, most of our guests might agree is slightly miss guided. it should be directed to the state legislature. but as you said, and those guys don't do anything. >> this is the only thing that's gotten them any kind of traction. and of course it may just be coming to an end. but these legislatures, adam made a great point. legislatures both republican and democrat have been doing this and say we'll pay you down the road and now we're down the road. and this is where we are. there's no easy solution to any of this. only painful solutions. if there was an easy one, we would have had it by now. any low hanging fruit has already been picked. liz: well, as we look at the
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markets here, the markets have been relatively flat. what fox business is doing now is really focusing on the money stories that matter to people and trust us, folks, these protests that you see in the screen in chicago are mimicked in many other cities because there is that frustration. it just so happens that the state of illinois doesn't have a budget and this has been going on for quite some time. again, we do have waste management companies that haven't been able to hire drivers because the state is not reimbursing them for waste pick up. you have 100-year-old high schools closing in illinois because there's simply no money. and then you have police officers like the ones you see on the screen, many who maybe have relatives who are now retired put their lives on the line. but now their pensions are under fund. >> you guys listening there isn't. liz: yeah, we are. go ahead. i believe we've lost a little bit of the audio right here, but there appears to be a woman who is reducing to
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leave, although that's earlier. what was jeff referring to here? we'll check back with him when we can. but as we watch this situation, we do have a relatively flat market here, a little bit of green on the screen. not too much action today. but the action appears to be what is certainly at the heart of -- what this election coming up in november is going to focus upon. we want to thank everybody who has weighed in here. liz, deroy, steven moore, not to mention jeff flock, adam shapiro, and all of our traders. the closing bell is about 27 minutes away. we've got a new bail out battle taking center stage. this time unbelievably it's not in the u.s. it's in puerto rico. treasury secretary jack lou, heading to puerto rico with the hope of pressing congress to somehow help the u.s. territory with this massive debt issue. just seven months ago, secretary lou told me in a fox business exclusive that a taxpayer bailout was not on the table when it came to puerto rico. is he being forced to change
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his tune? stay tuned >> we are basically at every point in the process that there's no discussion, no consideration being given to any federal bailout of puerto rico. at ally bank, no branches equals great rates. it's a fact. kind of like vacations equal getting carried away. more proactive selling. what do you think michal? i agree. let's get out there. let's meet these people.
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liz: breaking news. we now have the tally. 19 protesters have been arrested in chicago during these demonstrations known as moral mondays. protesters seem to be disbanding at this hour, though, after having demanded economic equality and no more tax cuts for the wealthy. we are going to bring you more on this story as it develops. but, again, this is a huge topic of discussion from the vineyards of california to the back room of the gop power brokers. everybody trying to figure out how to -- how to deal with this type of issue here. but we have many, many different situations, multi -- multimillionaires who want to solve some of the problems.
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>> multimultimillionaires. liz: multimultimillionaires. but they want to help with the situation. and let's bring in one of them. john jordan has used his business skills and personal fortune to support political campaigns across the country both at the local and national levels. john, great to have you here. i'm wondering if you saw these protests. and you've been a guy that says a social liberal but definitely a fiscal conservative. these people feel that the rich aren't paying the fair share. do you sense some understanding of where they stand or feel it's miss guided? what are your thoughts here? >> well, two thoughts. first of all, it's not surprising and unfortunates thes where public employees are going to get hurt first going forward. second of all, i would like to ask a question to the protesters. and that is at what point do you think marginal tax rates are high enough? at what point do you think people are tax too much? i would bet it would be very difficult to get a straight or
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quantitative answer out of them. liz: yeah, i think we found them. we consistently asked protesters because we're fair and balance here. you know, what is fair? what is their fair share? but looking at, for example, a man like you, you've been extremely successful. you've got the winery, you've got other options that bring in money. but you represent the type of donor that the presumptive nominee needs. ready, willing, and able with cash and fundraising. but also the smarts. to understand what the protesters are asking for and to figure out how to get them to understand what might really work. is donald trump going to be your candidate? will you support? because in the past you supported both scott walker and marco rubio. >> well, first of all, i support the cause of freedom. but more to the point -- liz: is that a "yes" on donald trump? >> yes, it is. . liz: okay. >> yes, it is but more to the point. it's kind of like the early morning of december 7th, 1941 for the battleship admirals of the political class. for several generations, raises have been looked at
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through the land, so it's left versus right, public sectors versus private sector. this year is a real paradigm shift and the shift now is toward insider versus outsider. and that's what donald trump really represents. quintessential outsider. and campaigns aren't -- you know, don't snap up overnight and don't just exist. they're built overtime. and he is doing the three things that he needs to do right now in the run up to the convention. and the mainstream media is playing along beautifully for it. first of all, he's acclimating himself, acclimating the american people to the fact he's an outrageous character. later on this will serve to inoculate him towards some of the democrats that the democrats will launch. second of all, he's establishing himself as the tough outsider who can get things done. and thirdly, he is working to lower media expectations of him. so that when he goes into the convention and the debates, all he has to do is show up with matching shoes ho, and his numbers will go up a few points. liz: well, putting aside his
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strategies on the media, looking at the issues at hand, does he even meet the gop establishment? paul ryan has said i'm not ready to fully endorse him and, by the way, if donald trump is going to ask paul ryan to step down as chairman of the cleveland -- the -- republican national convention, paul ryan said i'll do that. i mean what kind of message is being sent here? does donald trump need the gop? >> no. this is a -- this is a war that donald trump can only win. if donald -- speaker ryan relents and endorses donald trump, it will be spun right or wrong but successfully. that donald trump wrangled paul ryan and broke him to his will. if paul ryan does not endorse and continues to move away, it allows donald trump to run truly as an outsider and hang congress' unpopularity around hillary clinton's neck. he'll be able to say
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credibility that the elites are out to get me -- even the elites are out to support hillary clinton. and that will bolster his case as an outside general. the laws of physics as we know them to be for more than a generation have completely broken down. liz: well, the laws of budgets and deficits have certainly been up to question. i want to bring in charlie gasparino, and he's got a question for you, john. >> well, john, how about the laws of statistics? i don't think they've been busted down. let's give you a little statistics. he has huge negatives with hispanics, about 78% negative generating with hispanics. huge negatives with african-americans. huge negatives with women. this is donald trump we're talking about. and he has got to do better than 85% -- he's got to win more than 85% of the republican vote, given what's going on with those other groups. that's 85% is what romney won the last time and still lost by five -- by five points or
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three points in the popular vote but a landslide in every electoral college. that seems, to me, to be a crazy, crazy uphill battle this guy has. if you are teeing off republicans. remember paul ryan is not some sort of guy sipping in one of your wineries. this is a rock-solid conservative republican from a purple state. he's hardly an elitest. he may represent the establishment, but you start teeing off him, you're going to lose republican votes. and people are going to say wow. why am i voting for this nut? >> well, first of all, i'm not going to minimize in any way the -- some of the challenges that you describe with regard to donald trump's current polling numbers. and i emphasize the word current here. if you look throughout the history of elections, numbers have consistently changed, candidates have been morphed and reinvented -- >> which one?
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>> hw bush -- when -- >> that's the last one. >> 1988. >> that's the last one. but if you look at -- if you look at some of the -- look at the polling around president clinton on both elections, you look at the president -- polling on george w. bush with carrie and gore, pretty much matched up. and, by the way, those are when republican candidates are closer in the polling. i mean this guy has got a mountain to climb that seems really steep. listen, i've been wrong about everything about him. but my point is -- i don't want to say that. but if you're teeing off your base that you need 100% turn out, and you have high negatives with the other ones, it seems like it's an insurmountable -- liz: let's let john answer. >> first of all, these numbers in politics are almost never static. the election isn't for another
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five and a half -- >> you're right? >> he has an opportunity to close this gap. and the mechanics that the -- the physical forces of this election are unlike anything we've ever seen before. i'm not saying it will happen. i'm saying it could happen. >> yeah. >> and if something -- that dramatic was going to happen, it would happen in a cycle like this. so i agree with you. but it's an oversimplification to look at these numbers -- >> i agree. liz: john, do us a favor. are you going to be adding a lot of money into super pacs now to support donald trump? >> no, i don't -- i mean that's not really my bag -- liz: whoa whoa whoa. you've started super pacs. you've started pacs at least; right? >> yes, i have. i will support donald trump. but it's worth pointing out that money in this race does not have the effect that it has had in others. liz: this is true. >> you look at the jeb fiasco, for example -- >> 16 candidates, sir, that's with 16 candidates. you're running against an extremely. let me make this point.
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you're running against extremely well financed democrat, they're going to bombard donald trump already in swing states in june. and he's got -- he hasn't -- liz: okay. i'm getting yelled at. so, quickly and then we've got to go. go ahead and make your final point, john. >> real fast, hillary clinton in a three week period spent $2 million in iowa. yes, she inked it out about her numbers went down. the relationship between money and ad spending, that correlation coefficient isn't what it used to be. sanders had message but no money. and all of a sudden the money is following the message. again, the laws of physics are breaking. liz: well, bernie sanders is definitely progressive that. john, lovely to have you. please come back. thank you so much. >> my pleasure. liz: john jordan and charlie gasparino. dow is down 19 points. we'll be right back. don't go away
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. liz: what an afternoon in chicago from protesting budget problems there all the way through. it has been a very rough day in chicago. but, you know, now we go to puerto rico where the same situation is there. you heard it here first on fox business. back on october 1st, i sat down with treasury secretary jack lou, and we talked about the puerto ricoian debt crisis. the island had billions of dollars in debt with no prospect of paying back its creditors. i asked jack lou the very question about people wanted answered about puerto rico. listen. the u.s. taxpayer will never be on the hook. >> i see no scenario where there's going to be a federal bailout. liz: well, a lot has changed since then. puerto rico defaulted at the beginning of the month. so is the treasury secretary going to be forced to change what his plan was? peter barns is on the island right now. he's got an exclusive interview with the treasury secretary. it's going to hit after the bell. but, peter, give us a sense of whether he's going to be
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forced to change his tone. >> well, they're threatening that, liz, because, you know, as much on capitol hill, that would allow puerto rico to structure $70 billion in debt, of course a big issue for investors in this debt. and also to investors in tax-free municipal securities and state securities in general. so a lot of folks are watching this. but right now we're down in puerto rico with treasury secretary who is securing hospitals and secures because the territory has had to cut funding for them as a result of the financial crisis. but secretary also trying to get support for this legislation on capitol hill that would provide this relief. and right now at least governor of puerto rico says that if this law does not pass, he says that it could cost u.s. taxpayers a cash bailout of $20 billion or more. very controversial legislation. we'll get the details on the statements from the governor
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and those estimates and the fight on capitol hill from the treasury secretary with our interview with him from about an hour from now. liz: yes, i want everybody to stay tuned because after the bell, it's a fox business exclusive with the treasury secretary. we'll be right back. the dow has now doubled its losses from ten minutes ago. the dow down 34 points. stay tuned. much more media i know what i can expect from usaa because i have my checking with them, my savings with them, my credit card with them. and then i learned i have this usaa car buying service. the usaa car buying app was really helpful. all the information was laid out right there. i was able to see the savings that i qualified for. it makes your life so much easier when you have to purchase a car, so i've been telling everybody. usaa car buying service, powered by truecar.
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liz: we have had breaking news out of the fed last couple hours. kneel kashkari from the fed holding off on rate hikes. charles evans saying earlier of chicago federal reserve, we should wait and see. between that and changing landscape and global oil production, markets are driven by emotion rather than fundamentals. with all the emotion how should you track the tricky waters.
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steve due dash has more than $715 million in assets. steve are talking about what they should listen to. i need to back this in. what are two things they should ignore investing for the second half of the year? >> okay. this isn't easy to do but you have to ignore politics going on because we're going into the summer. you know it is doing to be a circus. looks like we know the who two players are. they are very polarizing. every time they say something specifically. trump says more things that are bold that can drive the market next few months. you have to be able drown out that and look at fundamentals a possible. then oil. oil will be the story all year. it was all last year too. saudi arabia versus the frackers, it keeps going on and on. you won't see $100 a barrel oil again. but you won't see it in the 20s. look for overreactions. like you said, it is not just the fundamentals. it emotions. you have to drown out look what
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matters. that is the bottom line with these companies. liz: oil down 3% in the after market. interesting we sit there and say what would you buy but also what would you sell? we can put up on the screen a couple names you would buy right now. we could follow that with what you would sell. british petroleum, bp is at top of buy list and alibaba, amazon a tech sector. these look like gutsy plays. >> we are in a flat market. you can't believe it will jump 20% like last few years. you have to pick your spots to make outsized returns. alibaba, incredibly profitable. they will not hit half revenue like they are in china. they're half the size of amazon and ebay. companies like that. look at those. bp, that is just oil. that is a company you can go in there put in your portfolio 40 years. that will be around and profitable.
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liz: why not. >> amazon hard to get into that, have any competition to get gnat market. amazon prime now, huge right now. [closing bell rings] liz: here comes the closing bell. we want to thank steve dudash. the dow down 42. let's get over to the closing bell. david and melissa pick it up from here. david: stocks ending the day mixed with the dow dipping into the red. look at oil and gold, ending down more than 2%. busy movement for commodities. i'm david asman. melissa: i'm melissa francis and this is "after the bell." new at this hour, the war on wealth. donald trump changing the tune on the tax plan telling fox business he may have to raise taxes on the rich. this as protesters storm a hedge fund in chicago, demanding the wealthy pay more to help their cash-strapped city. treasury secretary jack lew in puerto rico trying to convince congress to step in to help the struggling island while many are

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