good night. >> a shooting in dallas left five officers dead and two wounds. >> the video went viral showing officers killing black men in louisiana and minnesota. >> the officer just shot number his arm. >> to learn what really happens during confrontations like that, we used to have to rely on eyewitness accounts. but now video changes everything. sometimes it reveals bad police, sometimes bad police.
and new evidence shows lots of people who went to jail were innocents. >> after 28 years behind bars for murder, steven cheney walks free. >> our justice system is needlessly cruel. or is it? what is justice? that's my show tonight. recently there has been plenty of injustice. in louisiana police respond to a call saying a man threatened someone with a gun. when the cops found their suspect the cell phone video shows them subject dog him. once he's on the ground, one officer takes out his gun and shoots him. >> we won't show that part here. then the very next day in
minnesota, police pulled over a black man. at the cop's request he reached for his license and when he did, the officer shot him. his fiance live streamed what hack the next. >> we got pulled over for a busts taillight. he killed my boyfriend. e's licensed to carry. he was trying to get out his i.d. and wallet out of his pocket. and he let the officer know that he was -- he had a firearm an was reaching for his wallet and the officer just shot him in his arm. we are waiting -- i will, sir, no worry. john: the man died. two days later at the black lives matter rally in dallas a man killed five officers and wounded two others. how do we get more justice. former nypd detective bo dietl
says support police officers more and get tougher on prime. but some say they need to let more people out of jail. >> the right number of people in jail is the right answer. but there are a lot of people in jail with mental health issues. police officers don't have enough time to chase the truely violent repeat offenders because they are distracted by so many things. john: isn't there some good reason for black lives matter protesters to be mad, some cops are bullies. 650,000 the cops in america. one-half of one percent is thousands of bullies out there.
>> even if you take the structure of the clergy. you have got more than that in the surgery and doctors. john: but they don't have guns and the right to use them to take my life. >> a cop making $40,000 a year and is expected to be a psychologist or socialologist. john: let's take a look at that live stream. that killing. you told him to get his i.d., his driver's license. oh, my god, please don't tell him he's dead. >> we can't know what happened. but he sounds like the cop was out of line. >> we have to have more evidence to tell us what happened before. we get to that point. the deaths in any city are tragic. 63 million contacts between
police and citizens we have that data aavailable. we can't get distracted. there will be some cops that are bad and some protest by people using their individual hatred around protests. john: there is a new book out that says america is safer if we lock more people up. we lock up 98 out of every 100,000. no other country comes close. is that justified? are we more violent in america? >> yes, we are. family breakdown. kids growing up without fathers. without impulse control. drive-by shootings are practically and uniquely an american phenomenon. only 3% of people who commit a
property crime end up in prison. john: she disagrees with you. she says lock them up. >> we are at the lowest crime rate in this country since the last generation. we represent 30,000 professional law enforcement from all over the country. john: you have been a chief three times different places. >> i want police officers to have alternatives to arrests. i don't know a cop who want to put a guy with meantal illness in jail. officers want to be chasing those violent criminals. but when you have got people being killed in the numbers they are being killed -- john: lower numbers. we charted the homicide rate, it's down. >> we have to get the people that are killing people off the street. the majority are gang-related
and it's black on black crime. 4,500 will die in one year, black on black crime. john: when we look at that chart, the incarceration rate, are yo united states locks up more people than russia and china? >> maybe the youth has more murder than russia. i have been to china. i don't think there are too' murders going on in china. >> in the 1990s and 1980s there was a lot of get tough on crime, three strike you are out. we are distracted by the neighborhood drunk. we are distracted by what was a felony in 1980 is still a felony today and the value money has not kept up. john: on social media i asked what do you think are the biggest examples of injustice.
steffey said as a correctional officer some of the crimes are so petty. you have to wonder if the space is wasted. >> you just answered your own question. you hit the nail on the head, john. 1970, i was on the force. we used to have 2,000 murders in new york. we are down to less than 500 murder. what is the reason? maybe the reason is the people committing the murder are still incarcerated, maybe the murder rate is going down because we have people in jail, john. john: let's analyze that. 17 state let more people out of prison, the crime rate dropped there, too. >> 27 states in the last few years made meaningful, rational thoughtful changes in prison guidelines and have seen crime reduction.
mississippi is on the vern of changing -- the verge of change its correctional processes. >> if there is no violence involved with it. first of all, drugs, tomorrow they will make pot legal. john: do you agree with it? >> i agree with it. because i have never seen a guy high on pot crack a bought over a guy head in a bar. john: what about the harder drugs? >> those have other consequences. you don't show up to work. you get in trouble. john: we talked about how much crime has dropped. you look at these two peaks that exist. one in the 20s, one in the 70s and 8s. 8 -- and 80s. in the 20s, prohibition. prohibition is a much bigger threat to cops.
>> a big reason for the number dead in chicago is the gang violence. f what if we recogni change the low-level crimes. instead of ending up in a prison bed. why don't we try bringing them back. >> i have got to agree with the chief on this one. i believe they shouldn't just be put in there, they should be helped. john: right now many are just locked up. because of mandatory minimum jail sentences, to get sentenced to such long terms, it doesn't even make sense to the judge who imposes. >> if he had been an aircraft hijacker we have gotten 24 years in prison. if he was a terrorist he would have gotten 20 years in prison.
if he was a child ripist he would have gotten 11 years in prison. john: the judge was forced to sentence angelus to 55 years in jail. >> received a 55-year mandatory minimum sentence with no parole for selling something that's legally available in four states. john: congratulations. how does it feel to be out? >> it feels great. a little overwhelming. but amazing. john: the explanation is complicated. the judge who sentenced you went to bat for you and somebody gout out on a technicality.
did you expect that? >> no. john: you twice sold some weed and you had a gun. some people would say you are dangerous. you should be locked up for a long time. >> right. well, the gun was never bran dished or used in any fashion. it was just in the hav vicinity during the transaction. john: now that you are out what are you going to do with your life? >> i have only been out three weeks and i haven't had a day rest since i have been out. it's been hectic. but i'm going to advocate for reform. i noon go to d.c. and speak and help reform hands tory sentencing. john: in prison you were with people who had done nasty things, i presume. did some look at you and say you are in here for that. >> a lot of people didn't believe me. 55 years for that?
most of the people who did way harsher crimes got way less time. like the judge points out, a child rapist gets 11 years. that's a fifth of my sentence. some murders get 15 years. john: crime was up and that's why president clinton signed the mandatory sentences law. john: thank you, weldon i wish you the best and i'm glad you are after 13 years free. >> thank you. john: coming up. why innocent people are wrongly convicted. >> new evidence presented by the oklahoma innocence project proved scott and correspond
proven guilty. the jury must find you guilty beyond a reasonable doubt. often when people are convicted there is a confession, multiple witness or a damning piece of evidence. i'm surprised i keep hearing about people who because of dna evidence or other people confessed are moved to be innocent. >> after 28 years behind bars steven cheney walked free. john: how does it happen all these innocent people go to jail? it's because of the way police are trained says this professor. how does that relate. >> memory doesn't work like a tape-recorder. i can easily distort your memory by suggesting things you didn't see, and over time they will
become incorporated into your memory report and you will report them like they are your own story. john: you who are watching, look at this picture. do you remember the stop sign in the photo. yes, or no. how many of you remember there was the stop sign there? actually what there was no stop sign. the first i amage we showed, that one -- the first image has a wield sign. what's your point? >> this is a classic demonstration of how ease live we can distort somebody's memory for what you have seen. there you have two eyewitnesses who observed this accident. one says they ran through a stop sign. other witness might have thought it was a yield sign, but because the other person is so confident
they take that on board and start reporting it like it's their story. so by the time the police arve they report it was a stop sign. and the problem with that really is that police aren't interviewing eyewitnesses with rubber gloves on and shoe protectors. they aren't treating memory evidence the way they are treating biological evidence. so it can be easily distorted with time. john: it reminds me of this story here in new york. headline says witness accounts in mid-town hammer attack show the power of lost memory. >> there was a series of hammer attacks. after two of these attacks there was a woman who called the "new york times" and said she had seen the police shoot somebody who was already in handcuffs.
now, they hadn't. what happened here, and what this example illustrates is how our expectations can shape what we see. the media was flood with examples of bad police practices. john: the witnesses aren't necessarily make something up, they think they saw something that never happened. 342 people exonerated with dna evidence. >> 75% of them have an sigh witness pointing the person out in the courtroom, having already picked them out of the lineup. convincing the jury they committed the crime. and 2/3 of those cases had more than one eye witness doing the same thing. john: people get exonerated by dna evidence yet they confess. why would people confess to a crime they didn't commit. >> 20% of them included a false
confession. the reason why they would falsely confess largely comes down to the way police are interviewing such. the only people that get into the interrogation phase are people that the officers believe are actually guilty. once they get into this room which is designed to break down all of your psychological barriers. it's gray, and you have got the interrogator staring aught. they are providing the scaffolding to elicit a confession out of you. you really believe your innocence is going to shine through. so you are trying really hard to help the investigator and the investigator thinks you are guilty. if the crime is murder they will
say something like, well, everyone is bert off now that they are off the street. you did the right thing. john: i'm glad he's off the street, but i didn't kill him. >> now we'll start building your story. they might suggest, dna was found at the source of the crime. how would you explain your fingerprints found on the gun? john: i start to believe i did commit the crime or i want to please the officers? >> it could be any of those things. the gun doesn't to exist. they might not have found it and if they did your fingerprints probably weren't on it. did you bring it gun or did your friend suggest you bring it along. john: i didn't have a gun. >> john, clearly they won't get
you to confess. most of those people who did confess were interrogated for more than 12 hours. next a new movie that shows next a new movie that shows police killing innocents. is it a professor who never stops being a student? is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work
it's about to be released on dvd and streamed. but people would say what are you talking about? 12,000 people are killed every year. >> we were moved to make this documentary about dogs because half of americans own dogs and many more grew up with dogs. john: they are innocents. >> when you see the dog shot by a police officer you think this could happen to me and my dog. it breaks people's hearts. john: you got money from the animal legal defense fund and kickstarter. there is a tennessee story. >> the family was going to an amusement park outside of nashville. pulled over to get gas, and left the wallet on top of the car. then they drove off and suddenly someone called saying there was money flying out the window. and this got turned into this was an armed robbery. it was a mistake.
there was no armed robbery. police officers come, you can see they are surrounding the family and down on the ground. and they ask to -- we can hear on the audio, we have dogs in the car can we shut the doors. one of the dogs hops out of the car, about a 8 to 9-month-old puppy circling around with his tail wagging and one of the police officers takes his gun and shoots him at point blank range. john: it was an 80-pound pit bull. you say he was wagging his tail but we weren't there. and it was a tense situation. >> police officers don't have time to reflect. they have seconds to react. what they rely upon is their training. unfortunately in our country, most police officers do not have
any training on how to deal with dogs. so it seems that in a lot of cases the reaction, the instinct is to pull out the begun and shoot the dog. john: there are more of these s.w.a.t. team raids where they break into the home, and if a dog is barking and coming at them as any dog would in that situation, they may shoot them. and s.w.a.t. team raid have gone from 2,000 in 1980 to 50,000. more than 100 he day. so more dogs get killed. how many more. >> the department of justice community policing division told us they estimate 10,000 dogs are shot by police he year in america. john: let's play another clip from the movie. >> a police officer shot and killed their dog. the movie argues police rarely own up to their mistake or punish officers who recklessly kill dogs.
>> we had the witness. we had the video. >> everybody needs to remember there are two sides to every story. john: there are two side. and these officers aren't sadists. why would they kill the dog unless they were frightened themselves. >> there is a buffalo officer who alen has shot 26 dogs himself. john: and been punished for it? >> no, officers typically aren't punished. they say i was in fear of my life, even though no dog has ever killed a police officer in the line of duty ever. john: killed is a high standard. i'll bet they bit cops. >> we don't argue police officers should never shoot dogs.
we don't cast police officers as the villains. once we can have discourse then law enforcement and animal welfare groups can work together for change. john: thank you. next, laws that trap ex-cons in poverty. >> i felt like i was meant to be in the hood. like i was meant to be on like your insurance company won't replace the full value of your totaled new car. the guy says, "you picked the wrong insurance plan." no, i picked the wrong insurance company. with new car replacement™, we'll replace the full value of your car plus depreciation. liberty mutual insurance. thwow, it's nice.ew 2016 chevy malibu. let's check it out. do any of you have kids? i do yes. this car has a feature built in called teen driver technology, which lets parent's see how their teens are driving. oh, that's smart. it even mutes the radio until the seat belt is fastened. will it keep track of how many boys get it in the car? (laughter) cause that could be useful.
john: you get out of jail. you would like to stay out of jail. but the odds are against you. most ex-cons go back to jail. one big reason is they can't get work. job hunting is tough for everyone. by the many tougher if your employer asks, what have you been doing the last three years and your answer is prison.
and getting a joins impossible if you want to work as a nurse, a barber or 100 occupations in illinois. when theresa was 19 she was arrested for trying to steal money from a cash register at a subway. 20 years later she went to nursing school. after graduating she learned she couldn't even take the test because she had been convicted of a forcible felony. her job plan was impossible. she said it was as if the state's bureaucrats don't want ex-cons to work. >> i felt like i was meant to be in the hood. that it was meant to be on government assistance. john: christina from the policy institute told us about teresa.
>> teresa is a great example of someone who changed her life. she wants to be a productive member of society. john: 20 years later. >> government is getting in the way of pursuing her profession as a registered nurse. >> you can never become a registered nurse in illinois. >> it's mandatory. and they changed the rules when she was in nursing school. so she went in thinking she had a chance. but this year it looks like we have got a bill passed so there is hope for lisa. john: lisa has three kids and they couldn't understand why she wasn't working in the job she studied to do. >> my boys asked me what's up? i didn't have the heart to tell them things weren't going like we had hoped. my kids deserve so much better
than to be punished because of my mistakes. john: the kids are the innocent victims. a lot of these ex-cons have kids, and the law makes it tougher. in illinois that we don't know is worse thoonter states. bureaucrats ban them from 100 occupation. moving companies, barbers, geologists, dance hall operators. >> all i care is they will do good work going forward. >> you weren't to prison, you paid your debt to society. coming out, how are they going to treat you? are we going to deny you solid work that accumulations and your family out of trouble? and you turn to a life of crime or dependency. john: how did we get the laws in
the first time? i suspect trade saying we don't want competition. except they bribe legislation towards and make their own rules. >> you have government bureaucrats who like being busy bodies. they enjoy this for some reason. they know best, right? and their knowing best means people like lisa can't get a nurse practitioner. and there are people who don't like to competition. john: these rules are side and we should get rid of them. but there is this new approach. ban the box. explain what that means. >> it tells employers you can't put that box on the employment application asking if you have been in prison. it was that they were after he
frayed of being hit with lawsuits for negligent hiring. john: i'll bet some worry if half these guys repeat, i don't want this guy working for me. >> there is a diner in chicago known for only hiring ex-felons because they want to give them a second chance. we are a nation of second chances. so we have the ban the box but we are not giving businesses the right to hire ex-felons. john: next, someone who helps ex-felons build businesses like this gym. [music]
[music] ♪i hope the days come easy and the moments pass slow♪ ♪and each road leads you where you want to go♪ ♪if it's cold outside ♪show the world the warmth of your smile♪ ♪but more than anything ♪more than anything ♪my wish for you ♪is that this life becomes all that you want it to♪ ♪your dreams stay big, your worries stay small♪ ♪you never need to carry more than you can hold♪ ♪and while you're out there gettin where you're gettin to♪
john: one reason most people get out of jail and eventually get caught committing another crime and go bakes because they can't you -- is because they can't support themselves. but beyond that prisons are filled with people who may not be familiar with legal routes to a good life. >> i was the first-born american citizen in the family.
my mom found a job work at a factory making cents per hour. i would go to school and people would ask me what do you want to be when you grow up? i would tell them i wanted to be rich. john: he looked for opportunity in his poor neighborhood. at age 13 he began selling weed and cocaine. >> by 19 i was making $2 million a year. john: then got caught and went to jail for 7 years. but a good thing happened next. in. >> we transformed the hustle of incarcerated people. anyone who has worked in a prison, a correction at institution knows many in prison are natural hustlers from hooch which is made in prison to the cutting and selling of
cigarettes. people in prison, when you have restraints it can force innovation. by transforming their skills into legal skills and adding on a whole lot of character development, we don't only believe, we have seen and we know many with criminal history can shake outstanding legal entrepreneurs when they come home. john: you have a group called defy ventures. you have serious harvard business school education. >> they receive 100 course. when they finish our courses, they earn a certificate from baylor's mba program it's called ceo of your new life. they receive employment readiness training and life change zprils character doavment how to shake hand and tie a tie
for employment when you get out to how to forgive yourself and how to forgive others. to shame reduction. and parenting from behind bars. it's very holistic. john: i have never learned how to forgive people. >> we combine it with applicatn and bring in business executives. we have 3,000 of them nationally. we bring them into prison. we have business coaching nights and we have our own pitch competition where the incarcerated men and women pitch their ideas and receive feedback. and we give them ious for after they get out. and they can receive up to $15,000 for their startup businesses. john: they have to go to kickstart tore try to get the rest of the money.
>> they can earn more than $15,000 in grant funding. for businesses we hook them up with angel investors who can help them raise additional capital if their businesses warrant it. we incue bad it and funded 150 of their companies. john: he now runs a successful gym in new york city. he made it look like a jail. some people like that. >> it's a killer workout. you will come here and sweat and you are going to do the time. john: the staff is mostly ex-cons. he highers them to -- he hires them to give them a support group. >> it's a very loving place. >> she is breaking the stereo types and bringing the community together. john: you financed 150 companies.
>> these businesses have been so successful that they provided 350 employment opportunities for people. not on are they creating their tone jobs when other people won't hire them. but they ends up hiring their buddies who are also out of prison because who better than them to recognize that's people out of prison are america's most overlooked talent pool. they have amazing skill sets. they are chasmatic and they can close a deal and manage to get things done. if that's used for legal enterprise, america wins. john: good news about this otherwise depressing show about crime. we'll show you how new technology makes life better for cops and for us. >> we had over 2 million views. from the comments of great job. i couldn't do your job and god bless you.
in ferguson, missouri where a police officer killed michael brown, no cameras captured what happened. authorities relied on eyewitness testimony. >> many witness to the shooting of michael brown made statements inconsistent with other statement they made and conflicting with the physical evidence. john: people pulled out their phone cameras after the shooting. but no one got a video record of what happened at the time of the shooting. it's the reason why more police departments have officers wear cameras on their chefts or shoulders. this is a good thing for the public because some cops are bullies. there are half a million police officers in america. if 1/10 of 1% are pulleys, that's a lot of bullies with guns. we tend to trust the police, they are the good guys
protecting me from bad guys. and police departments and police unions are not eager to punish their own. look at what colorado officer mark magnus does to a robbery suspect. >> i'm sorry, sir. the suspect was drunk and he did mouth off at officers. but even though he poses no threat, one cop punched him 12 time. the suspect keeps apologizing. >> i'm sorry. >> this officer had been accused of abuse before, repeatedly. but he wasser in punished the because there -- but he was never punished because there was no proof. but this time there were cameras.
even though police knew about the cameras, they were so used to do this type of thing they didn't stop. the officer was fired. orlando, florida found use of force incidents dropped 53% and civilian complaints 65%. many cops say they became better officers because they knew the camera was there. they protect cops from bad people as well as protecting us from bad cops. people file false brutality accusations against officers. with body cameras we no longer have to rely on witnesses. this woman said officers threw her to the ground and stole her bracelet. but because the officers wore body cams you can see she wasn't
thrown to the ground. and she as you so wasn't wearing a bracelet. while many police officers initially objected to the cameras, today many ask for them even when they are not required. tampa bay's police department released this video showing their officers do good things. like helping this woman who had fallen over. helpingific this person's bike. -- helping fix this person's bike. >> you can't call 911 when there is not an emergency. >> we have had over 2 million views. from the comments of great job, i couldn't do your job, and god bless you. reporter: officers doing their job. good things. that's what most of them do. it's good that the camera lets them share that with everyone. that's our show. thanks for watching.
charles: i want to thank all of you for a fantastic show and here is the man himself, lou dobbs. keep it right here. lou: good evening everybody. i'm lou dobbs. officials in charlotte north carolina tonight preparing for another evening of protest over the police shooting of a 43-year-old african-american keith lamont scott. who police say was armed and posed an imminent threat to officers. demonstrations were mostly peaceful last night but there is mounting pressure on officials to release the video of the tuesday shooting. earlier today scott wife release her own recording of the incident. in that footage you can hear rakeyia scott pleading with police not to shoot her husband.