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tv   Risk and Reward With Deidre Bolton  FOX Business  October 12, 2016 5:00pm-6:01pm EDT

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>> wow, officers refusing to comment why they believe the crash happened on purpose, dating the investigation is ongoing, the federal aviation administration is involved in the investigation. >> right next to pratt whitney, the corporate headquarters that makes jet engines. that might have been involved. "risk & reward" starts right now. liz: pick up on the breaking news. the fbi joining a plane crash investigation by a jordanian national in connecticut. the national transportation safety board just moments ago confirming it was an intentional act. questions swirl whether this was an act of terror. we will have more on that in a moment. first, a fourth wikileaks data dump over a thousand new e-mails with more breaking details from hillary clinton's campaign. welcome to "risk & reward." i'm elizabeth macdonald in for deirdre bolton. from deplorables to irredeemable, now a top clinton campaign spokeswoman caught mocking conservative catholics
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and evangelicals in an e-mail exchange. this e-mail exchange happened five years ago from jennifer palmieri. they had an e-mail exchange and it happened at center the for american progress. that's the think tank. they were talking about a "new yorker" magazine article talking about rupert murdoch and news corp. chief executive robert thompson's decision to raise their children catholic. twenty-first century fox is the parent company of fox business network. here's what mr. halpin wrote about conservative catholics and the way they think. here's a quote -- and jennifer palmieri now the clinton campaign director e-mailed back --
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earlier today, donald trump held a conference call with catholic leaders talking about the clinton campaign, basically official derogatory comments about conservative catholics that happened before jennifer palmieri joined the campaign. just moments ago lee donahue called for campaign resignations on fox news. >> put up with stupid comments made by these people. what i can't put up with is when there's an integral plan setting up phony organizations which is a revolution which is their term within the catholic church. john podesta has to go, hillary clinton is now implicated, that is her campaign manager. no other religion would put up with this and catholics wouldn't either. liz: my next guest says this is further evidence of the campaign's persona. from the national diversity
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coalition she joins me now. good to see you, brunelle? >> thank you so much for having me, god bless america. liz: god bless you, too. >> i receive it in jesus name, amen. liz: let's get into it. basically the e-mail exchange happened five years ago before jennifer palmieri joined the campaign, basically venting between colleagues, right? but they are now part of the braintrust that's running the clinton camp. do you see a problem with this? >> of course. i mean, you cannot go -- you can't talk about people's religion like that and then be working for a presidential candidate, hillary clinton is trying to go into the presidency. and so if she does not deal with that situation. if she does not repudiate it, then we the american people would just assume she's in agreement with that conversations but it's a larger picture.
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there's a big war on the people god. people who actually are followers of the faith who are christians, and in our country it's become islam is okay to talk about, everybody can talk about islam, but don't offend anybody in islam, but when it comes to christ and christians, we can be dumped on, talked about, disrespected and they dare us to open our mouths. our religious freedoms as christians in this country are under attack. liz: here's what's interesting, too. five of the last nine elections since 84, catholics voted democrat. >> yes. liz: and more than 32 million catholics vote. they make up anywhere from a fifth to a quarter of the voting bloc. do you really want to alienate catholics? listen, it's a diverse strain of people, the way people think, do you want to alienate conservative catholics at this point in the campaign? >> you know what it is?
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this is the candidate, hillary clinton, who's above the law. and so she feels like, oh, well, i can hate americans because the wikileaks -- thank you, wikileaks, told us that she doesn't even like americans. she hates americans, she doesn't want us touching her even at rallies and things like that. it goes to show that in private -- liz: okay, sorry, i'm so sorry, we got to interrupt you, forgive us, breaking news, wells fargo ceo john stumpf retiring as chairman and ceo of the bank. tim sloan will take over as ceo. change is effective immediately. to our conservative commentator kurt schlichter and washington times commentator. what do you make of the resignation is. >> it's important when you have a leader whose organization has gone off the path to take personal responsibility.
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that's what may will be happening here. i think i'd like to see a little more of that in our politics and election campaigns. so you know, i think this is a new start for a proud organization that's served people for many years, and i wish him well in the future. it's a right step. liz: eric, he is forced to give back tens of millions of dollars in compensation. looks like he's a walk away with a hefty pay package. one ballpark, i can't give you the number, in the tens of millions. eric, what do you think of the timing, why this is happening now? why do you think he's stepping down now? >> i think he's under tremendous pressure. look, i've called for this for the last three, four weeks that he should go, he should be terminated. he oversaw one of the greatest scams of the last 20 years. they have systematically ripped off consumers. i think many consumers would like to lasso him up and tie
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him to the back of one of those old stagecoaches and just let the horses run. this has been one of the biggest scams. look, he was at the front. he rammed the company. he was in charge. so i'm glad to see him go, i think more should happen. liz: sit tight, i'd like to bring in fox business senior correspondent charlie gasparino. what do you make of the news? >> it was foreshadowed yesterday. as we reported on fox business exclusively yesterday when they started moving many of the reporting lines to number two, tim sloan, the coo of the company. what i said yesterday is john stumpf will be out by the end of the year, and he's indeed out by the end of the year. this is a pretty intense fall from grace. this guy was considered one of the best bank managers in the business. he ran a very profitable bank, a well-capitalized bank, but here's where the rubber meets the road in american banking since it's so highly politicized.
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you come out and you give lousy performances before congress amid a scandal, and you, as the leader of a bank are toast, and i tell you this, if you look at numbers involved here, this is not the scandal of the century, we're talking about, you know, $10 million were ripped off from people. i'm not condoning it, but this isn't a bernie madoff $50 million, $100 million ripoff. when john stumpf went in front of congress, he seemed incapable of explaining either what happened or what they were going to do to prevent this happen, the creation of the phony accounts in the future, and he walked right into left hooks from everybody from elizabeth warren to republicans who, you know, couldn't really defend him. listen, let's be real clear, the actions themselves were pretty egregious, you set up a
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fake bank account, fake checking account in a customer's name, you know, that's bank fraud. but the level of it being just -- i'm telling you, we're talking about a guy that's being blown out. a ceo blown out for $10 million scandal, i know it's bad, but it's not that much smoirngs pretty astounding. a lot of it comes down to banks are incredibly politicized now. masters are not the shareholders anymore, not the board of directors, it's elizabeth warren, the consumer financial protection board. it's the federal reserve. by the way, all federal entities that completely missed this scandal as it was going. they were camped out, the cfpb, the consumer financial protection subordiin the offices of wells fargo and they had no idea this was going on. this story came out because people complained about this stuff happening at the "l.a. times," the l.a. times did
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stories. liz: that's an important point, the regulators didn't catch it, it was the news media. charlie, john stumpf was doubling down saying i'm not going to resign, i am accountable, i'm the guy to fix this. >> good luck. liz: now he's going to walk away with a lot of money. he's giving back $41 million. he could walk away with 170 million. >> i'm going to say this, liz, i'm not condoning the activity. people should be drawn and cornered, if they have aggressive sales tactics, you know, you should stop it. we should point out if they were that aggressive, you would think that the ripoffs would be less than -- more than $10 million. multiples of that. these banks, the way they allow them to be created post financial crisis are huge. wells fargo is a combination of many banks, took over wachovia post 2008. being so big, you need really good managers that understand this.
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they can't be everywhere, stuff false through the cracks like this. john stumpf didn't know about this as it was going on. if you have big banks and you are putting ceo's accountable for everything that happened at the big banks, you're going to lose really good people and the banks are syemic, bi and when they fail, they'll destroy the financial system. one reason citigroup failed in 2008, they bailed it out. it had lousy management. the whole group of managers left because some of the stuff that went on with sandy weill and jamie dimon, the dregs of management, and citigroup with a trillion dollars worth of deposits, if that went under, the federal government would have had to make up a trillion dollars worth of deposits. liz: a lot of money. charlie, you have a lot of sources on wall street, and what to their mind when john stumpf testified and elizabeth
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warren raked him over the coals. what did they feel was the break point when they lost faith in john stumpf's leadership? >> well, the first hearing, i think, was it. i will tell you this. people like gary kaminsky, a former senior executive at morgan stanley who is now doing "wall street week" and melissa francis, a journalist like me, but is knowledgeable in wall street affairs, covering wall street for a long time. they saw the writing on the wall. before me. i didn't think he was a goner. i know he's considered a good manager and you need good managers at the banks. they saw it before that. they just saw the severity, the type of crime was sleazy. it's almost along the lines of, you know, chris christie and people in his administration causing traffic on the gwb. it's not the crime of the century but what happened here was so sleazy. liz: charlie, people want to
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feel safe in their homes. they want to feel safe in their bank. and if your bank is creating fake accounts in your name, it could slam your credit score, money in your checking account and you get charge for an overdraft you didn't sign up for. >> let me make a point. liz: wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, charlie, hang on. >> this is an important point. >> the difference between what john stumpf did and jamie dimon did, jamie dimon went before congress and owned them. john stumpf was not prepared. liz: hang on, but my point is during the hearing, he admitted he knew about the problem in 2013. >> heard about it. liz: and question was did you disclose in the filings and elizabeth warren went after him and said did you use the eight is great cross selling to convince wall street investors to invest in the stock? he said no.
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he said vit transcripts. yeah, you did. we have california, illinois, chicago and seattle halting business with the bank. >> cross selling is -- if you stop cross selling, american business is going to -- liz: talking about the states stopping business and investment opportunities with the bank. >> take elizabeth warren saying we caught you cross selling, i will tell you --. liz: she didn't say. that hang on. i didn't say that. >> i was, there i remember what she said. liz: stay with me, please, i'm begging you. i'm saying she said quoted john stumpf, she said to john stumpf, you touted cross selling as a reason to invest in the stock, as a reason to invest? >> and it is. liz: she said according to the transcripts, you did. >> i remember that conversation differently, i will say this. liz: okay. >> every bank cross sells. liz: i understand that, but the conversation is something different. let's wrap it up. >> i covered the hearing, i
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heard it, i heard it. liz: i heard it, too. kurt and eric, see you in a few minutes. next guest says hillary's camp mocking conservative catholics says she will continue president obama's failed isis policy. retired lieutenant general thomas mcinerney speaks out. that's next. >> why aren't i 50 points ahead, you might ask? well, the choice for working families has never been clearer. i need your help to get donald trump's record tout everybody. is it a professor who never stops being a student? is it a caregiver determined to take care of her own? or is it a lifetime of work
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you qualify for a multi-policy discount, saving you money on your car and home coverage. call for a free quote today. liberty stands with you™. liberty mutual insurance. . liz: more on the breaking news about wells fargo ceo john stumpf, resigning. let's get to the political power panel, conservative commentator kurt schlichter, washington times contributor
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eric schiffer. we left off with you, he walks away with a lot of money, people say so what. he's a banker, he worked for the money. he should. he's going to give back an unprecedented $41 million. that sent chills down the spine of a lot of bank executives. looks like d.c. weighing in and changing rules after the fact about executive pay. what do you make of that? >> i think he should give back everything he's made. he was in charge, he blamed it on employees. it made no sense, it's a complete lie. this is a guy that knew about this. charlie said he didn't know anything. he says he also said a minute ago this was not that big of a deal, it's not a madoff thing, tell that to the consumers that were ripped off and lost the money. people are tired of the institutions and establishment
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institutions whether it's the media or the political figures and now the banks. they can't trust them, and it's guys like stumpf that need to go. we need leaders we can trust and not people that get the big paychecks and rip people off and rip off consumers and we say it's not that big of a deal. it is a big deal and i think charlie is wrong here. liz: kurt, to erics point, john stumpf testified he heard about the problem going back to 2013, and sounds like inside the bank they were trying to put out the fires there but couldn't get control of the culture of doing cross selling. we get it. everybody gets it. it's not issue that cross selling is bad, it's the way the bank conducted that practice, it veered out of control and scared people they couldn't get control of what was going on inside of the bank, kurt? >> look, john stumpf was in charge. i'm a military guy, i see things simply. when you're in charge, you're responsible for everything your organization does or doesn't
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do. i've got to hand it to wells fargo, they're doing the right thing. getting rid of the guy at the top. i love to see this accountability and we need to see more of our society. more in the business world, more in the finance world and more in the political world. it's time that people can rely on organizations to do the right thing and make up for the problems they create. that's what's happening with wells fargo. let's have more accountability here. this is something we should celebrate. liz: it's been reported already for some time, eric, it wasn't that bank regulators and a lot of regulatory bodies that cropped up since the financial collapse, they didn't catch the problem. it was the "los angeles times." that's been out there for some time. there's no shortage of bank rules and regulatory bodies, kurt, it's no enforcement and disclosures, right? >> look, to me --
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liz: sorry to kurt, go ahead. >> i'm sorry. it's no shock that the government doesn't do things well. i'm glad that we're finally seeing a story where the media is doing what it's supposed to be doing. it finds a story, investigates it and breaks it. that's what we need. the media is an important part of this process of holding people accountable in business and in government. i think this is a -- an ugly story but a good story, a positive story, if there were more stories like, this people wouldn't be so angry and unhappy with the way things are. liz: i'm sorry, eric, wells fargo, one of the biggest investors is berkshire hathaway, warren buffett stayed mum on the issue, as he has in the past. he hasn't weighed in when banks have the gone in trouble. what do you make of the fact th basically we've had a lot of people in washington, d.c. with major hearings really going after stumpf. do you think this is one of the reas
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reasons why he was forced to step down was because of washington? >> ultimately they read the writing on the wall. they knew they had to do something. this is a stain on warren buffett because he's on the board. he knew about this. this was going on. this was happening since 2013, and for him to allow stumpf to blame this on employees, when stumpf's responsible, when the board knew what was going on, they knew and they were ripping off consumers for a long period of time. opening these bogus accounts, fake accounts, and allowing stumpf to say, well, yeah, i may have known about it. well, guess what? your paid big bucks to be accountable. you're paid money to do your job and not rip people off. you're taking this great brand. wells fargo was a great brand
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and you destroyed pieces of it. the trust, with the american public, with the world. it's not right. he should claw back, all this money should come back. liz: do you think he should give the money, it was $200 million and she claws back 41. do you think he should give back more? >> i'm not a shareholder of wells fargo, but, look, i think accountability includes consequences, and one of the consequences, if you fail to perform is that you should fail to collect the full reward for good performance. so i wouldn't take that off the table, but i think it's wells fargo's job to figure that out and people are going to watch and see how accountable wells fargo holds people and make judgment there. wells fargo can salvage its brand, it can be the great brand it's been, it's moving in that direction, i hope it keeps going.
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liz: let me tell you something, mr. clean, that's what stumpf was called, eric, how do you think d.c. is going to react? do you expect washington to weigh in on this? >> let me tell you, he is mr. clean, he cleaned the pockets of consumers. that's mr. clean all right. and how do you think washington is going to react? i think they're going to be happy about it. they're going to show that maybe perhaps they made a difference, they helped to tilt it. i've been speaking out against him for some time. i think many other people. and kurt's right, the media actually did their job, they really. did they pointed things out early on, and that's the job of the media to protect the public, to educate the public, and frankly, i think they deserve a lot of credit. liz: kurt, what happened at wells fargo feels different from the subprime mortgage crisis who the villains were, the 1% fat cat wall street bankers that orchestrated the financial crisis with the help
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of government, if but now it feels like these are the middle to low-level workers, $12 an hour maybe they were getting, who were pressured by the upper ranks to do cross selling and they feel they were unfairly fired. it looks like this is a different story inside the bank, right, kurt? >> well, look, it is a different story. this is a story about leadership, not merely management but leadership, and a good leader creates an atmosphere where you understand that certain behaviors are just not going to be tolerated. and whether john stumpf did that on purpose or through negligence or just didn't do it, it was under his watch these people failed to meet high standards that we expect the people who handle our money. those people who failed to meet the standard need to be held accountable, but the leader needs to be held accountable, too. that's the one everybody is looking at, liz. everybody is going to see what happened to john stumpf, and i
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will not be surprised if every other banker in america, every other mid-level bank employee hears, hey, if you're doing this, you need to stop. if you've seen this, you need to come clean and let us know. we're not going to tolerate this because i don't want to be held accountable. liz: you've been terrific. we will have more on the breaking news, wells fargo ceo and chairman john stumpf has resigned. stay with us. you totaled your brand new car. nobody's hurt, but there will still be pain. it comes when your insurance company says they'll only pay three-quarters of what it takes to replace it. what are you supposed to do? drive three-quarters of a car? now if you had liberty mutual new car replacement™, you'd get your whole car back. i guess they don't want you driving around on three wheels. smart.
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. liz: welcome back, like to bring in fox business' david asman about the stunning fall of john stumpf who resigned as chairman and ceo of wells fargo. he helped guide wells fargo through the financial crisis. >> he did. remember, this kind of stuff, the nonsense is not supposed to happen, because we have all the new bureaucracies that were created to stop shenanigans of the big banks. big banks weren't supposed to happen after dodd-frank, the reason we had dodd-frank is to
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cut down on the concentration and the size of the banks. banks are bigger than ever and more concentrated than ever. there are fewer banks who have more capital than ever before. some people say in spite of regulations, i say because of regulations, who wrote the regulations, it was the banks. the banks had a seat at the table when dodd-frank and regulations were written. we have the regulation that liz warren has created which is accountable to nobody in congress, they're paid for by the federal reserve bank, another issue there, but the point is, liz, this is a bank that was doing what it was allowed to do because a lot of the regulations created since the financial crisis were written in coordination with the big banks themselves. liz: important point, he faced heated, bipartisan grilling from both sides of the political aisle from both the house and the senate hearings.
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you mentioned liz warren. she said, you john stumpf, showed gutless leadership, placing the blame on lower level employees while you are keeping your multimillion dollar job. >> there is truth to that. there is a fact that liz warren was supposed to prevent the crisis with wells fargo. she is to blame with the creation of the new bureaucracies are going to solve and create things. all the wikileaks stuff that came out about hillary clinton, what hillary clinton was saying to private banks in private, not in public, how it differed from public accounts, why were the banks paying hillary clinton so much money? not because it was a charitable thing, worrying about how the clintons would make ends meet. they thought they would have influence with the way the next set of regulations were going to be met. all the banks knew a new set of regulations, they wanted to have influence the way they did before.
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liz: just to recap, john stumpf resigning after he said he will not resign, he takes accountability. bank was accused of opening two million fake bank accounts, may not have been authorized by customers. people getting credit reports ruined and seeing fees hitting them. are banks too big to manage? john stumpf is saying in testimony we knew about the problem in 2013, tried to stop it but couldn't, go ahead, david. >> exactly. there was a range of things that could have been done. you realize things that were done that shouldn't have been done, forcing banks to lend to subprime lenders, now we know, we have to say, there was a pile-on going oi don't know how anybody could have stood up to the pile-on in congress against him. liz: more on the breaking news,
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wells fargo ceo suddenly retiring. stay with us. 7.95." [ beep ] but you'll be glad to see it here. fidelity -- where smarter investors will always be. if only the signs were as obvious when you trade. fidelity's active trader pro can help you find smarter entry and exit points and can help protect your potential profits. fidelity -- where smarter investors will always be.
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. liz: joining me now, the former democrat congressman from ohio, dennis kucinich, who was the chair of the congressional investigative committee that investigated the banks in the 2008 meltdown. what do you make of the news that john stumpf suddenly resigning over the fake bank account scandal? >> it's no surprise, i would expectul see more of the top
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brass from wells fargo stepping down. they're facing multiple investigations for violations of banking regulation at state levels as well as federal level for fraud in terms of the justice department and the public image of the bank has taken a serious hit because of the violation of public trust. so millions of americans have been adversely affected and it's really important for there to be accountability right at the top. liz: you know, congressman kucinich, elizabeth warren called for a criminal investigation of john stumpf. what do you think of that? >> she's right. it's warranted. i think that, you know, what they did was fraudulent, and not only that, but it had implications for individuals, i
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mean, they could be facing millions of lawsuits, but as far as criminal activity, absolutely, i don't think there's any question about it. liz: so the d.o.j., elizabeth warren stepped in, also the sec whether the ceo or the bank knowingly misled investors by not disclosing the fact they knew about the fake accounts problem dating back to maybe 2013, right? >> right, and i think when you book that kind of activity as a company and it's not true, that's certainly going to affect the stock of the bank, and so you're probably going to see a dramatic reappraisal of wells fargo's position in the financial community with a real correction of their stock price
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based on a deep dive into the real numbers that the banks are operating on. liz: congressman, we're in of course a political season, a month away to the election. hillary clinton certainly made a lot of money giving speeches on wall street. do you expect either of the candidates to step up and say you know what? this was out of control what happened here and we should break up the big banks? >> i think they're both going to have to -- both major candidates have to address this. hillary clinton will be pressed to do it because the contributions she received from banks. donald trump is no favorite of the big banks. i would expect him to weigh in, and you know, people could come back at him and criticize him for his own business dealings. this is a clear case of fraud on the part of a major bank, and, you know, earlier in the show, someone mentioned, may
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have been you, are the banks now too big to regulate? we're told they're too big to fail, and too big to regulate? can anyone regulate them? apparently they're not self-regulating, wells fargo this is a good case how banks left to their own designs will do things that will dramatically affect the public interest. liz: we have all sorts of regulatory bodies that pop up. the regulators didn't catch this fraud. it was the l.a. times who caught it, right? >> right, right. liz: so why would we have more regulators trying fix a problem they didn't catch? >> you make a good point. here's the problem though, our political system is set up so that regulatory bodies which are appointed by elected officials have the ability and can be corrupted. they can look the other way.
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they can be slow to enforce. so i don't think that enforcement in and of itself is wrong. i think that the idea of honor park system with relation to banks. liz: congressman, stay with me. david how old do you, that have to have a regulator sitting next to you in your office? >> sorry we have david asman here. >> dennis kucinich would join me in part of that, we have a federal reserve bringing down artificially the rates to zero. as a result of that, banks are going out of their way, finding little mechanisms to charge interest rates higher than they otherwise would be, and, of course, if you barter on the credit card, you get higher interest. that's just one of the problems that we have, dennis -- >> i'd like to respond. i not only agree with you, but we have to remember that the
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fed is also a regulatory body. >> right. >> and that they have failed time and again. >> time and again. >> in cleveland where, i'm from, they missed the fact that national city bank was booking by the tens of thousands, no doc and low doc loans that then became collateralized and led to the subprime loan. >> the fed missed on so many things, they are bad prognosticators. the other thing the fed is doing now which happened as a result of the financial crisis is giving banks an open access to the federal reserve windows, allowing them to borrow all the money that it's supposed to, just commercial banks, when we separated the commercial and the financial banks, we got into this mess, wouldn't you agree that is where the mess started? >> if you're talking about the act that congress did that
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caused the banks to be able to speculate, yes, that is a problem. liz: okay. >> banks should not be speculating and the public shouldn't have to stand behind, that's why i voted against the bailout. liz: thank you so much for your time. appreciate it. coming up against a hard break. we will have more on this stunning resignation of john stumpf, ceo of wells fargo over the fake bank account scandal. stay with us. many people clean their dentures with toothpaste or plain water. and even though their dentures look clean, in reality they're not. if a denture were to be put under a microscope,
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. >> if the buck stops with you as you came out here and said i apologized, the buck stops with me, and you have to also admit that criminal activity was going on in your bank, you should be fired because the bank starts with you! >> the board has the power, and my energy right now has come forward. liz: joining me now jonas max ferris on the news that john
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stumpf ceo of wells fargo suddenly resigned. what do you make of it? >> well, it was looking better for him not getting removed, but in this environment, post bank bailout where people are still looking to stick it to banks, you are not going to hold a position like that. no matter how high up -- liz: jonas, the bank was seen and found to be ripping off consumers. people are really mad about that. they want to feel safe at bank and senator liz warren saying you say you're accountable john stumpf, you walk away now possibly net $160 million, and you didn't really hold yourself accountable. you held lower level workers accountable and you fired them. >> well, the board took $41 million away from him. liz: brings it to 160, go ahead. >> that's more money than they made ripping off, to your quote, ripping off people. they were ripping off their own
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-- the overly aggressive sales practices that get failed that led to employees creating fake accounts to get not fired essentially or get bonuses, and whether that was known or tolerated. how high up the executive ladder is the issue. the actual damage to customers, there was some with credit reports getting hit and minor fees, they were reimbursed, you're talking about more like were they ripping off wall street showing growth and trying to get up to 8 customer accounts per relationship. that's where the fraud and the aggressive techniques were. and i don't think if this happened before 08, there would be this level of resigning. liz: that's an important point that basically wells fargo is saying to wall street, eight is great cross selling, eight accounts per household is great. it is a reason to invest in our stock. liz warren called out john
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stumpf saying did you do this? did you tell wall street it is a reason to invest in our stock? you have a good cross selling mechanism, and he answered no. she said wait a second, i have earnings transcripts, conference calls with wall street saying yes, you told wall street this is a reason to invest in wells fargo stock because we are doing cross selling. there is nothing wrong with cross selling, seems like it was a slippery slope, he veered out of control. he didn't have command of the facts at the hearing. >> and didn't look like his hand was squished in a coffee jar, going for more money with the broken hand. it's lose-lose for wells fargo, drives executive compensation up by tens of billions of dollars, that is crooked and fraud. if they didn't know what was going on, they're making this
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lack of imagination that many others did during the 08 crash, they didn't see how could it be gained? it's like applying for a mortgage with no income or mortgage brokers were putting fake numbers so they would get bonuses and make more money writhe more mortgages. if you can't see the angles, you shouldn't be managing that much staff. they either didn't know, which is bad or essentially in on it and looked the other way, it was helping the stock go up. liz: jonas, you are one of the sharpest and smartest guys i know, and you make important points here, and again, this is a scandal that really put a revered -- a well-known blue chip bank wells fargo into turmoil. >> the most famous investor in the world, warren buffett, he's not commenting on this until november. it's a big embarrassment for him. liz: good point. jonas, we have a hard break coming up. we will have more on the sudden resignation of john stumpf, ceo
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and chairman of wells fargo over the fake bank account scandal. stay with us. >> ♪
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and start gathering the information you need to help you keep rolling with confidence. go long™. ♪ liz: we are talking about the sudden resignation of wells fargo ceo-chairman john stumpf. despite the fact he was saying a few weeks ago i am accountable but i'm the person to lead the bank through this crisis. john stumpf basically sled wells
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far -- led wells fargo through the financial collapse. sanger made this statement on the retirement. john stumpf has dedicated his professional life to banking, successfully leading wells fargo through the financial crisis. however, he believes new leadership at this time is appropriate to guide wells fargo through its current challenges and take the company forward. the board has confidence in tim sloan. he is ready to lead the company into the future. we do have our panel back. curt and eric, let's take it to eric. we talked about what's happened at wells fargo. we are going to break. we'll have more with the panel
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after this. 'll plan. baird.
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liz: john stumpf, ceo-chairman of wells fargo is retiring. picking it up from here, "making money" with charles payne is next. don't go away. charles: we have breaking news right out of the gate. john stumpf, the much-maligned ceo-chairman of wells fargo is stepping down immediately. the news comes on the heels of the nice of phoney accounts made in customers' names. i'm not sure this resolves the situation.

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