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tv   Risk and Reward With Deidre Bolton  FOX Business  January 13, 2017 5:00pm-6:01pm EST

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claimed the lives of thousands more. and don't forget we're talking about the inauguration moments ago with adam. fbn is open for business monday as we begin the inaugural week, catch "after the bell" normal time mondays, 4:00 p.m. eastern while the other guys are in reruns. here's "risk & reward." >> i have instructed my team to follow the example that president bush's team set eight years ago and work as hard as we can to make sure this is a successful transition for the president-elect. because we are now all rooting for his success, uniting and leading the country. the peaceful transition of power is one of the hallmarks of our democracy. >> we must accept this result, and then look to the future. donald trump is going to be our president. we owe him an open mind and the chance to lead. >> all of us, including the
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vice president, are committed to the kind of smooth and effective transition that president obama directed. >> our key is to, at this point, be ensuring a smooth transition. >> we, of course, share the objective that the whole government has to work constructively to ensure a smooth transition. >> following the president's leadership and ensuring a smooth and orderly transition. >> my number one priority in the coming two months is to try to facilitate a transition that ensures our president-elect is successful. >> the peaceful transfer of power from one freely elected president to the next. [cheers and applause] . liz: we're now just a week away from the president-elect's inauguration, but trump's team is now asking, where is that smooth, peaceful transition that all the democrats promised? welcome to "risk & reward," i'm
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elizabeth macdonald in for deirdre bolton, we are a week away from the inauguration, and remember the peaceful transition we showed you that all the democrats including obama and hillary clinton promised? it's been anything but.. >> not my president! not my president! >> not my president! >> not my president! not my president! . >> i would rather lose than win the way you guys did. >> no, you wouldn't, no, you wouldn't. >> absolutely. >> i know you wouldn't, actually. you think i ran a campaign where white supremacists ran a platform. are you going to look me in the face and tell me that? >> it did! >> at this moment we are filing
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an action in federal court in pennsylvania to seek a statewide recount in pennsylvania. >> republican members of the electoral college, this message is for you. >> you and just 36 other consciencious republican electors can make a difference by voting your conscience on december 19th. >> i received death threats, people talking about putting a bullet in the back of my mouth, sending pictures of a noose, if i don't vote for hillary clinton, they'll get me. >> racist, sexist, anti-immigrant. >> anti-muslim, anti-semitic. >> we demand you vigorously oppose him. >> and the northern most part of our country and the southern most part of our country. [chanting]
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. >> white people don't get arrested! >> do you believe that openly being homosexual in the combat unit is undermining our force? >> can you just assure us that not one dollar will go to benefit either the president-elect or his families? >> i think director comey bears the responsibility for having that press conference which is totally unprecedented, a clear breach of a protocol at the justice department, he's accountable for that letter he sent to the hill. >> investigation is calling into question whether there were political motivations and whether that might have impacted the outcome of the election. liz: well, the pushback against the trump presidency continues to escalate with just one week to go until donald trump sits down in the oval office. take a look. top intelligence officials were scheduled to brief congress
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this morning on russia's meddling in the u.s. election. president obama had call for the investigation. the justice department watchdog opened up a new inquiry into fbi director james comey over handling of clinton's private e-mail server investigation. and damaging details from an opposition memo that accused trump of being compromised by russia were leaked to the media. james clapper denounced the memo as false. somehow added to president obama's daily briefing and making the rounds on social media. so the narrative undermining trump is this. trump lost the popular vote it's james comey's fault the russians did it. few are pointing out why hillary clinton lost. no one is pointing out no one made hillary do mostly fund-raisers during the month of august when historically voters start focusing on election. no one told hillary clinton not to campaign in key battleground states like wisconsin and no one told her to put the nation's secrets on private
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e-mail server in her house in chappaqua. let's bring in trump transition team senior adviser, katrina pierson. do you think president obama and other democrats are making good on their promise for a smooth transition? >> no, where do we start in this is politicians speaking, say one thing in front of the camera and do a completely opposite thing when no one else is looking. this has not been a peaceful transition of power, if you hadn't played it you wouldn't believe some of the things this incoming administration is having to put up with along with supporters. >> trump is backing back on his twitter account, notably about the fbi issue, he tweeted this, what are hillary clinton's people complaining about with respect to the fbi, based on the information they had, she should never have been allowed to run. guilty as hell, the fbi was very nice to her, she lost because she campaigned in the wrong states. no enthusiasm. wasn't that the issue, katrina?
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>> that was absolute the issue, as someone who was out there in the states which some of them she didn't go to, i can attest to that. people are tired of the status quo. the fact she had a private e-mail server compromising national security, was a problem to the american people. she didn't campaign effectively, but i think more importantly, this last election cycle was about wanting someone that was going to go out there and fight for them, the american people. and the clinton platform was the same as the left, everybody but the american people was going to benefit and americans said no. liz: katrina, here's what's going on, "gallup" and quinnipiac said trump's approval ratings have plummeted and two-thirds of people in the recent "quinnipiac poll" say trump should stop tweeting, he needs to be more presidential. is that an issue? >> i don't think at all. in fact, this is something that was appealing to a lot of people that supported donald trump as a kvment mainly because when a politician enters the arena, they're locked down, information is
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kept from them, not allowed to communicate. donald trump is the opposite of that. he wants to communicate with the american people, feels it's important for the american people to hear from him, what he thinks about policies and positions and worked out well. liz: remember the passenger who harassed trump's daughter ivanka on a plane, what do you make of that? >> well, it's unfortunate. these are the same people that preached tolerance, seem to be the most intolerant, particularly with those who have different ideas than they do. also an example why donald trump won this election. he has no tolerance for people that can't just get things done. he doesn't care about wanting to tell you what to do, how to live your life. he just wants policy that's going benefit at the economy, national security, he wants to make sure that american families are put first. liz: thank you, katrina pierson, come back soon, okay? >> great to be here. liz: tune into fox business
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next friday january 20th for some live coverage of the presidential inauguration. amidst all this president-elect trump pushing to make good on campaign promises to get america winning again. >> we're going to win so much, you may even get tired of winning, and you'll say please, please, it's too much winning, we can't take it anymore. mr. president, it's too much, and i'll say no, it isn't. we have to keep winning have, to win more. liz: we have this breaking news, another campaign promise to dismantle obamacare is one step closer to becoming reality. the house of representatives passed a budget resolution that will start the process of repealing obamacare. let's take this to the political power panel, washington times contributor eric schiffer and fox news political contributor tammy bruce. trump tweeting about the vote on obamacare earlier today. here's what he said --
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we got nine republicans voting no today. what do you make of that? >> obviously, the president-elect and the entire team said they're going to replace it. that's going to happen. i think as you saw with the opening, it was fabulous, a lot of chaos on the left and all they know to do is say the things they think are going to frighten people the most. you're looking at a smooth dynamic, they expect to, in fact, clearly repeal this and yet that's not going to mean that obamacare is going to end immediately. liz: trump is saying simultaneously. will that mean people are without coverage? >> of course not. look, you've got a plan that is going to be in force any more than when they passed obamacare, existing plan then didn't just blow up. it's not going to happen this time either. his tweet, and this is interesting to me. everybody is trying to denigrate him. one tweet at 6:30 this morning, reminds people of the success he's having. that's what makes a difference. liz: union boss richard trumka runs the biggest union in the
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country, met with donald trump, said it was productive. trumka did not support donald trump. he's saying he's ready to work with a new administration. redoing trade deals like nafta. is he finally coming around to trump? >> he has to. i think some of his members are demanding it and certainly wants to be safe, he wants to make sure he can get his agenda crossed in some way, but i think that, look, this is obvious situation he has to deal with, he's confronting it, and i think before the election, but now, you know, there's no choice now, he has to meet with them. liz: let's go through the recent job announcements since trump's election victory, tammy, alibaba one million jobs, toyota 10 billion invested in the u.s. in five years, apple, a plant in arizona, what do you think? >> not about immediate jobs and the numbers, this is about investments that are going to
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grow and build. the amazon announcement, extra full-time jobs with full benefits that, in fact, the amazon success is replacing brick and mortar stores but safe to say book stores aren't employing full-time workers because of obamacare with full benefits. liz: or shopping malls that could be shut down and going to amazon. >> exactly. this is good jobs, getting out of the part-time world that the obama administration created back into real jobs that can be careers where you can support yourself and your family without having to deliver pizzas at night as well. liz: important point, part-time jobs has been created. >> exactly. >> under the obama administration. the data show. eric, another enemy turned friend, we'll see, amazon's jeff bezos. he has previously said trump's behavior, quote, erodes democracy, and the "washington post" which jeff bezos owns hit trump with multiple investigations, and to tammy's point, amazon is creating
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100,000 jobs in the u.s. by 2018. what do you make of the former trump foes coming over? seems like it. >> i think he's got to, in some way show some level of respect. this is a pr stunt. they have grown by 100,000 jobs or close to it over the last two, three years, there's nothing new here and, in fact, i think what you're also going to see is see a cut in jobs that will go because of robotics and innovation and certainly warehouse innovation. liz: eric, stay with me on that point. i hear what you are saying amazon created 60,000 jobs, still 25,000 jobs above that? they're growing workforce by 30% by 2018, eric. that's big. >> you're looking at jobs, but you're not looking at the net jobs. so that's a gross job number, when you look at net jobs, look at innovation, you're going to see them continue to move
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forward with drones, other forms of delivery, warehouse innovations that are letting people go, so you got to look a little deeper in my opinion, and i think you're going to see just a slightly different picture. liz: i see what you're saying, could be fallout, maybe it's not 280,000 net jobs, thank you for the point. eric and tammy. thank you so much. coming up, a video of our very own neil cavuto calling out cnn, and it's going viral. we'll show you why. and we have this story for you, president obama ending a longstanding policy that let's illegal cubans stay in the u.s. now they may be deported to communist regime. my next guest is asking why is this happening now? why didn't it happen before the election? could it be because it would further hurt hillary's chances of winning florida and the latino vote. he is former senator scott brown and he joins me next to talk about it. don't go away.
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. liz: president obama ending a longstanding u.s. policy that let's illegal immigrant cubans stay in the u.s. without deportation. the cubans who traveled here on the rickety boats that's who this includes. cubans could be deported back to the communist regime that has killed a lot of people. and the move comes after months of negotiations with the cuban government to allow deportations back into cuba. this after more than 100,000 cubans have fled to the u.s. since 2014. my next guest questions the move. he's saying president obama delayed this ruling, this decision in order to help hillary clinton win florida. joining me now is former massachusetts senator scott brown. so the timing of this is odd. what do you make of it? do you have proof he delayed it until now? >> well, i think the proof is in the putting.
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he's not going away quietly, certainly, and also putting in, i think, and others think numerous roadblocks whether it's dealing with russia, whether it's the investigation of comey, whether it's this. you could go on and on and on, and we'll see what happens. we have a week to obviously change course and let the trump agenda move forward. and here's the biggest problem and i and others have. you think president obama is like contacting the trump administration saying by the way, president-elect, this is what we're going to be doing? no. and i don't think that's appropriate. liz: you know, senator, obama is always saying we don't want to tear apart families with illegal citizens -- excuse me, illegal immigrants. but now this move. and do you think donald trump will just say no, we're not going to do that or give the cuban people refugee status? >> well, i think it's going to be a case-by-case basis. i think he's going to establish an immigration policy that is
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going to include extreme vetting, that is going to include us following our laws, and obviously if somebody is entitled to refugee status, those people will be given the appropriate review. it's certainly easier in a place like cuba versus dealing with syria and the war-torn areas. i'm curious, as i'm sure you and others are to see what the policy towards cuba will be. obviously you see what happened with iran and cuba, our enemies have been treated better i.e., israel and the other allies. there is a lot going on emac, because we know between the protests and the questioning of the legitimacy of the president-elect, and with all due respect, he's going to be the president in a week, and people need to get over it and
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move forward on being americans first and recovering not only economically but educationally, environmentally and becoming our world's leader in power in many, many areas, the only way we're going to do that is together. liz: did you see this president obama, it's just breaking that he's declaring january 16th, quote, religious freedom day. is this in any way a swipe at incoming president trump? >> will the president just go away, please. how many more things is he going to do before he leaves? he's going to be one of the more active presidents up until the last day, obviously offering clemency and doing other types of things, communing sentences or creating holidays or changing holidays before, but i think people kind of laugh it off a little bit and be eager to see what's around the corn jeer senator, let's switch topics and listen to the video going viral. our very own neil cavuto
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calling out cnn after their reporters back and forth with the president-elect. let's take a listen. i'd like your reaction. >> it didn't matter so much when it wasn't about you before, cnn. very different now that it's you being singled out, cnn. doesn't seem very fair now, does it. not very nice now, is it. that's life, i guess, not often fair and balanced, and you are experiencing what we have been living. now you're the ones royally foxed, and the reality is i feel your pain. you never came to our defense, allow me to come to yours, you are better than buzzfeed, but the buzz is you're getting fed to the wolves. isn't it obnoxious and unfair how some celebrate your plight kind of feels like the way you celebrated ours, doesn't it? they say payback's a bitch, if only you would take a moment to rewind the tape and see the shoe is on the other foot, or
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am i confusing it with the one now kicking you in the ass? liz: scott, what are your thoughts on this? >> i love neil. you know, we all love neil. that's neil in vintage form. nothing wrong with networks battling certainly, but cnn has issues not only with releasing the questions to hillary, but you see the lack of respect obviously towards the president-elect, not only them but other mainstream media folks, and i think neil nailed it. how many times did the president-elect and other networks hammer fox for doing abc and d. live by the sword, die by the sword, whatever cliche you want to use, it's appropriate. it's important to have competition, important to have viable, in but i think cnn and other media outlets need to report the news and not create it. liz: thank you, senator scott brown, love having you on the show. come back soon.
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>> all right, emac. go patriots! >> a week ago today, remember this story, we covered it for you. a horrific ft. lauderdale airport shooting. democrat senator bill nelson and the media reporting the shooter was a mentally ill hispanic army veteran. my next guest says an important part of the story is missing. he says the shooter is an isis inspired terrorist and no one in the media or government is reporting that or talking about it. he's judicial watch's mark spencer. he's going to show us the evidence next.
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>> this shooter, his name is
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esteban santiago. he was carrying i it in i.d. we don't know if it's active. or another flame member's i.d. and we don't know a motive at this point. liz: fort lauderdale holding a moment of silence after a gunman opened fire a week ago. the shooter has been described as mentally ill. they say he become unhinged mentally after a tour in iraq. but a new report published by judicial watch says there is more to this story and the media is missing it. they say he become a jihadi and converted to islam years before joining the u.s. army and his
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actual name is islamic. his name is sheik ahm sarkmad. >> delays minds set in police management if you ignore a problem it will go away. we are you have a guy clearly influenced by an islamic jihadist mindset through the change of name, conduct and dialogue. in police work we call that a clue. to avoid the reality to paint a safe picture does great disservice to the community. liz: does isis and the terrorist jihadis target those who are mentally unstable? is that a route they take? >> perhaps those type of people
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are drawn to them. clearly we see a pattern developing, ignoring the problem and labeling it as something else. if we can't name a problem we can't involve it. by not accurately naming his background? describing who he is and the terrorist minds set that influenced him, it sadly and unfairly casts aspersions on the it in. liz: even the president said words to your effect, that isis goes after the lone wolves. so why is it that the government and media is not reporting this is a terror attack. that these five killed in fort lauderdale were killed by a terrorist attack. >> possibly if you take political correctness and mix it with a passive national security strategy and mix it all up in an unrealistic view of the dangerous world.
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there is a thought process out there. if we mitigate and parse words it will change reality. it's not an illegal alien, it's an undocumented worker. he's a disturbed ex-military person. he's an active jihadist. liz: he could have come to new york city and the fatalities could have been even more. is that correct? that his plan was to raffle to new york city? >> islamic jihadism is alive and active not tomorrow within the country, the cities and our borders, too. we saw the new york situation there, but that could just be coincidence. he flew through minneapolis, and minneapolis is another hotbed for islamicy headist terrorism
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activity -- islamic jihadist terrorism activity. liz: the report is he wanted to come to new york on new year's eve. the cnn reporter's outbust at the president-elect's first press conference. a congressman says he should be fired. he joins me next, don't go away. what super poligrip does for me is it keeps the food out. before those little pieces would get in between my dentures and my gum and it was uncomfortable. just a few dabs is clinically proven to seal out more food particles. super poligrip is part of my life now.
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>> since you are attacking us, can you give us a question. mr. president-elect since you are attack our news organization can you give us a chance. >> not you. go ahead. >> quite, quite. >> mr. president-elect can you say categorically, can you give us a question. >> don't be rude. no, i'm not going to give you have a question. you are fake news. go ahead. liz: after president-elect trump
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shut down cnn jim acosta's outburst at the press conference, a congressman is calling on cnn to fire him and prohibiting him from of any press briefings. randy weber, thanks so much for coming on the show. i appreciate you coming on. is firing too harsh? >> well, here is the thing, liz. we did was disruptive to the entire press corps. not to mention the american public. i learned in kindergarten -- before kindergarten really, you couldn't be disruptive and you had to act respectful in that kind of a setting. to attempt to shout down the president to be, the president-elect of the united
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states of america in a setting like that to the disparity of all the other reporters in the room is harsh. since you ask that question. if i had a staffer that did that, you would expect them -- there would be people calling for that staffer to be fired and rightfully so. you just don't get to disrespect the president to be of the united states of america and be so disrespectful to the american public who wanted to see the questions answered. i thought donald trump did a magnificent job of maintaining his composure. you would think that the reporters would know if you watched the election, a lot of these people came out and protested and call them whatever you want, call them mini riots where they threw rocks and bottles and destroyed property. november 8 has come and gone
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pant americans elected a president. it's time donald trump gets the respect he deserves. for a reporter to know what the first amendment is and demonstrate that disrespect on national tv is reprehensible. i wanted to get your reaction to what acosta said about the news conference. >> during that news conference sean spicer said to me if i continued to persist and ask a question, i would be thrown out of that news conference. i have never had a press secretary threat on throw me out of a news conference. that is a first and not a good sign of things to come. what do you make of that? >> i think the gentleman is -- me thinks he protests too much. i don't know this reporter. how many other presidents -- how
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many of those has he tried to shout down on national tv. had he been that disruptive and that disrespectful to assume to be president of the united states, somebody should have told him he would get thrown out. if no one else, his boss at cnn. liz: the fight continues over the student painting depicting police officers as pigs on capitol hill. the student wasn't suppose to be subject matter that was controversial. but the painting was hung up and taken down multiple times. in the most recent development a blue lives matter flag has been hung above the pictures. that thin blue line is the line
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between us and danger. will it be taken down permanently? what do you have think? >> i hope so. my bride of over 40 years was a school teacher for 27 years. i often said we don't pay our educators and law enforcement responders near what we way our professional entertainers. to do something like that in the united states capital in my view is absolutely reprehensible and should be taken down. there are rules for the architect of the capitol. we have been looking at those. certain kind of disruptive thing that paint classes people in a derogatory fashion cannot be posted in the capital. liz: we have a heroic
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characterization of our police force. this is officer steven mcdonnell's funeral in manhattan in front of st. patrick's cathedral. just for viewers to bring them up to date. he was on duty. he was paralyzed from the neck down. he continued to serve the nypd for three decade and even said this about his shooter. i forgive him and hope he find peace and purpose in his life. what are your thoughts? >> well, liz, obviously that is a contrast. you are talking about america's finest. what a sterling example of that very thing. why won't america stand up.
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there was a patrolman in arizona, an arizonaian had to shoot somebody who shot that police officer twice and was beating his head into the pavement. our kids have not learned respect for our police officers and school teachers. we need to be teaching our kids respect. we don't see it. the fact that this officer passed on with that kind of attitude is a great testimony to those who serve us. liz: the teenager so tired of people getting fake news from social media. what did he do? he's 19 years old and he bought it on his own. he want to be a media titan. he's with me. don't go away. afoot and light-hearted i take to the open road.
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healthy, free, the world before me, the long brown path before me leading wherever i choose. the east and the west are mine. the north and the south are mine. all seems beautiful to me. approaching medicare eligibility? you may think you can put off checking out your medicare options until you're sixty-five, but now is a good time to get the ball rolling. keep in mind, medicare only covers about eighty percent of part b medical costs. the rest is up to you. that's where aarp medicare supplement insurance plans insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company come in.
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liz: in fake news to the flood of phoney internet stories, it seems like journalism is in trouble. a teenager just bought his hometown newspaper. he's a local guy out of arkansas. he wants to revive people's trust in newspapers and said we can't just depend on social media or information and some tv shows as well. here is that brave teen. hayden taylor. how did you have afford buying the entire newspaper? >> well, i have always saved my money for anything i have earned. i worked since i was 13 years old and various jobs. it wasn't that expensive -- liz: how much was it? >> we are still hashing out the details -- i wasn't suppose to get it for a couple months.
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but when the original building burned down we had to hasten things along. liz: how much are you spending on it? >> i honestly don't know yet. liz: why are you doing this? are you sick of the fake news out there? >> could you repeat that? liz: a lot of people your able don't read newspapers. are you worried about people getting fake news off social media? >> i'm worried about just it's tough for me to say that the actions taken against fake news whether they are good enough because who is to decide what is and is not kren sword. is -- is not censored. i'm worried about the accountability on it's you acceptable to spreading hear say.
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>> you don't print what's not true. that's a basic standard in journalistic ethics. are you worried about that? >> i wouldn't say worried. i have some faith that people will come back around to more trusted news sources. but i think my personal take on it is it should come about naturally and people should decide for themselves if something sounds fake or not. liz: we have some people buying newspapers to exert their influence. how do you plan to exert any influence on the newspaper you just bought? >> i plan on avoiding it like the playing. i don't want to get my hand dirty doing that type of thing. i don't think it's a responsible use of the platform i have. i bought the paper to report
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simply the facts and allow citizens who have concerns to write editorial columns to comment on it one way or another. but i don't want to use my position as owner and editor to further ideals i have. liz: hayden taylor, you are a breath of fresh air. we appreciate it and wish you luck. it's that time already. it's time for a brand-new season of strange inheritance. we have jamie colby here with all the details next. ♪
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approaching medicare eligibility? you may think you can put off checking out your medicare options until you're sixty-five, but now is a good time to get the ball rolling. keep in mind, medicare only covers about eighty percent
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of part b medical costs. the rest is up to you. that's where aarp medicare supplement insurance plans insured by unitedhealthcare insurance company come in. like all standardized medicare supplement insurance plans, they could help pay some of what medicare doesn't, saving you in out-of-pocket medical costs. you've learned that taking informed steps along the way really makes a difference later. that's what it means to go long™. call now and request this free decision guide. it's full of information on medicare and the range of aarp medicare supplement plans to choose from based on your needs and budget. all plans like these let you choose any doctor or hospital that accepts medicare patients, and there are no network restrictions. unitedhealthcare insurance company has over thirty years experience and the commitment to roll along with you, keeping you on course. so call now and discover how an
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aarp medicare supplement plan could go long™ for you. these are the only medicare supplement insurance plans endorsed by aarp, an organization serving the needs of people 50 and over for generations. plus, nine out of ten plan members surveyed say they would recommend their plan to a friend. remember, medicare doesn't cover everything. the rest is up to you. call now, request your free decision guide and start gathering the information you need to help you keep rolling with confidence. go long™. ♪
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liz: jamie colby, the host of fox business' "strange inheritance." season three premieres next week january 20. >> oh, my god, this is not for real. i'm totally creeped out. >> we have axes, knife, guns, mallets. >> this is totally weird. reporter: you have looked at some of these and said no way. it can't be. you can't make it up season. 28 new shows. and that one, i walk in and i
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never know what i'm going to find. this house, layers and layers on all four walls, knife, hatchets, guns. it started to me as a house of horrors. but it was the collection after man who handcrafted most of these weapons to perfection. i actually learned how to do some blacksmithing, and it's a collection that turned out to be valuable, but not so much to the authorities. during the period of time they were looking for the uni-bomb and you can imagine what their initial reaction would have been. but he was a highly educated and skilled artisan. there was some thought taking the entire walls and selling the collection together. people will have to watch to see what hatches. in our season people inherit things that are great benefit
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osha bit of a burden and they are in interesting situations. 37 cities, 17 states, and we controls thed ponds. i don't know if you were tar jane austin fan, we found a ring that england didn't pen know existed that was inherited by a five times removed grand great niece. it all starts friday january 20 at 10:00 p.m. liz: you have done some interesting reporting here. >> you can't figure what you are going to find. the interesting thing is, this year over a third our episodes of the 28 are from our viewers. they watched season one and season two. you think you found a car collection? wait until you see mine. >> they are still writing us and we are visiting them, but it's
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time to get them on the air. we'll have more after the break, don't go away.
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liz: fox business will have wall-to-wall coverage of president trump's inauguration next week. charles: good evening. president-elect trump slamming the leak of the unsubstantiated report of supposed activities. he tweeted totally made up facts by sleaze bag political operatives. inknowing there is no proof and


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