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tv   Sunday Morning Futures With Maria Bartiromo  FOX Business  April 16, 2017 10:00pm-11:01pm EDT

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information and videos on our website, foxnews.com/propertyman. [ woman vocalizing ] >> one from s. the photo of his two -moold so >> happy easter, everybody. >> good morning. north korea's test results as mike pence arrived in south korea for a 10 day visit to asia. washington is looking ahead to next week with a renewed focus on health care and tax reform. good morning. i am maria bartiromo. happy easter to you and yours. this is transcendent. north korea shows a failing missile test almost over before it began. but the next step or the white house in dealing with the rogue nation? trip advisor dr. sebastian corker joins me live. president trump on the foreign policy challenges facing america today. the president post that occurred
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on as many with chinese president and how you react to when mr. trump told him the u.s. was in fact launching missile strikes on syria. while in a barbecue repeal be back on the table after the easter recess for congress? how will that affect the timetable for tax reform? remember the freedom caucus is it me. ron desantis and grover norquist will join me live as we look ahead on monday morning futures. -- "sunday morning futures." north korea to size the world again, tempting to fire a missile, but it fails almost immediately, blowing up on the launchpad. this only a day after the regime rolled out a huge display of the tanks, rocketsmissiles and a parade through pyongyang. vice president mike pence arrived in south korea this easter sunday at the beginning
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of the 10 day trip throughout asia. this morning he told u.s. service members their mission is vital. >> this morning's provocation from the north is just the latest reminder of the risks each one of these days every day in the defense of the freedom of the people of south korea and the defense of america in this part of the world. your willingness to step forward, to serve, to stand firm without fear inspires our nation and in buyers the world. maria: dr. sebastian corker's deputy assistant to president trump. good to see you. you are joining us this morning. >> happy easter, maria. congratulations on your interview with abbas. true to thank you so much. the president said we are sending an armada toward the korean peninsula. what is the goal? >> the goal is to reassert american leadership around the world and reassure allies,
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partners and friends that america is back. we are jettisoning the idea of bidding from behind which is up is an oxymoron and the principle of the obama administration's national security strategy which is so-called strategic patience. that means doing up in and creating vacuums around the world weather in europe, the middle east or asia, vacuums that bad people will exploit. that era is gone and the president is showing leadership. abby: is certainly showing not commit error friendly dean is behind. let me ask you, dr. gorka. there's some conversation happening about what role the u.s. played in not missile failing out of north korea overnight because apparently there is some talk that the u.s. could have done something on offense with a cyberattack to cause the north korean missile to blow. true? >> this is not the obama white
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house. we don't give our playbook away. that is very bad strategy. we have an incredible team for incredible team whether secretary mattis, h. r., tombaugh set responsible for some of our most amazing cyberwork. but we are not going to tell people what we do. people draw their conclusions that understand the use of the cruise missiles, these things send a clear message that we are not going to comment whether we involved in anything happening with north korea. not good strategy. sorry. maria: having an armada as a reminder that it's ready. north korea is getting a top official with a preemptive strike against the u.s. of this nation believes america taking what he is calling reckless military action. are we ready for that? >> i would like to make one thing very clear because there's been a lot of missed reporting on this. the president is not an
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interventionist commander-in-chief. nothing has chand from november 7th 2 today. he's been explicit. we explicit. we are not invading other peoples countries. this isn't some neoconservative administration. nevertheless, we have obligations to our friends in the region and on top of that, things like weapons of mass distraction, nuclear weapons in the hands of rogue regimes, chemical weapons, those will not be counted because they are a threat to americans as well and that is why you see the leadership out of the white house you are seen. maria: is extraordinary. we recognize that. let me ask you about the mother of all bombs. the u.s. dropping the most powerful and non-nuclear bomb in its arsenal on what a sad with an asis complex in remote afghanistan come incredible to see the number of cases fighters killed as a result of that and civilians. >> this is really the untold story of the last few years and
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this is why the action has to be taken. isis isn't just something happening in iraq was eerie appeared it is stunning that in the last two years we have seen afghan warlord swear allegiance to the new so-called caliph of the islamic state. that is a very bad sign. that becomes from leaving behind. someone in south asia is pledging allegiance to a terrorist group in the middle east. that's why we have to send a signal. of course, a complex is very similar and as a result of the question of the conclusions being drawn byogue actors. trade to the weapon was so massive it has to be dropped from the rear of a cargo plane. i thought it was interesting that there is a little bit of a nuance to what the president was saying in terms of the u.s. approach in foreign policy and that is he's listening directly to generals on the ground.
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this doesn't change strategy. during the obama administration, many generals on the ground were upset that they weren't being heard. is that part of the strategy for the president? absolutely. great men and women were shackled for years. the 8000-mile screwdriver with people here in d.c. making tactical decisions on the lowest level in not allowing our war fighters to do their job. that is change. we trust our men and women in uniform. the president trust their leaders and we are telling them you have been framed to do a job. we will let you do the job. that leadership and president trump knows how to delegate.lood what he is doing now. let the professionals do their job and that is why morale is skyrocketing. maria: the mother of all bombs dropped in afghanistan. you've got it headed towards the korean peninsula. what the president told me about the armada when we discussed earlier this week.
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>> we are sending an armada, very powerful. we have submarines, very powerful. far more powerful than the aircraft carrier. but i can tell you. maria: but was he trying to say there? for the longest time was in hearing about military is so depleted and we are needed to update to advance in terms of technology. here we are looking at some of the weaponry which is the most sophisticated we've ever heard a period >> yeah, the president is sending a simple message. this is a man who wonders and the diplomacy of without forced to back it up is just a bunch of words, just a piece of paper and asked why he is saying we have the most incredible military the world has ever seen and that is going to back up what we are singing. it's not just going to be the cleric statements.
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we are replacing divisiveness with decisiveness. that's why you need to interpret the president's words. maria: dr. gorka, thank you so much for weighing in. will be watching you. happy easter to you. coming up, one for my exclusive interview with president trump this week that he told me he wants a deal on health care before tackling tax reform. >> we have a great health care plan that i think will have been. and if it happens, i go immediately to tax reform and that will be easier. maria: so when will that happen? i will be asking congressman ron desantis next to the freedom caucus. plus follow us on twitter@ricardo romo "sunday morning futures." we are looking ahead right now on "sunday morning futures." ♪
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anna kooiman exclusive interview this week with president donald trump on the fox business network, the president said health care has to come before tax reform. overspending on defense of florida's member of the house freedom caucus and a sit down house oversight and government reform committee. wonderful free to join us in join us come especially when so many colleagues on vacation. thank you for being here this morning. >> happy easter. maria: happy easter to you. let me pick it up with an important interview this week to listen to what he said about health care and tax reform. >> we are going to have a phenomenal tax reform, but i have to do health care first. i want to do it first to really do it right. maria: but you have to do health care before tax reform? business managers say it's a much more impactful to moving
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the needle and economic growth. >> because i'm saving a tremendous amount, hundreds and hundreds of millions of dollars saving on health care. we will have a much better plan which is failing. we are saving tremendous amounts of money when g this done, nuer one. most importantly we'll have great health care and all of that saving goes into the text. maria: congressman, before this we all thought once the gop bill fails in the house that you're going to change your focus and turn immediately to tax reform. we know that tax reform is hostage. whether shopping you from going forward on health care reform, sir? >> i think when you look at when the bill failed we only spent 17 days on it. we have been promising for seven years that we would repeal and replace obamacare. the bill didn't quite get there. the cbo said it would increase
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insurance premiums 15% to 20% the next three years. that would've been a disaster if it has been to a lot of people looked at the bill and said we need to do something about premiums and giving people a chance to purchase the planes they want. this is why people don't like obamacare because the cost and restriction on prices. the white house is doing good work in the scenes, working with members of congress and the vice president to the white house that and they generated a number of ideas that would be comparable with because it would provide relief to consumers. i do think we do want to do tax reform. i agree the tax reform and lowering rates will be more attacked impactful. obacare is a drag as we. you've got to get the obamacare right and repeal right. i would give us a huge amount of momentum in the tax reform. maria: he was specific on that. i nodded billion dollars in savings once you overturn the taxes and the affordable care act that will go towards paying
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for tax guys. is that the plan? >> i think so. when you do this in washington, they score these things and so we are kind of held hostage to assert extent to how they run the numbers. that's a mistake that a lot of these numbers don't end up to be accurate. you basically have more slack for tax reform. if you talk about significant tax rates which we need to do because we're not competitive internationally. you have the ability and the president said 15%, that's a good target. the house bill is 20%. either one. maria: you made a really important point when he brought up to 15%. in a follow-up on health care. if you were to see this health care bill in lower premiums in the tax is eliminated, the savings of $900 billion, will you vote yes to this health care bill?
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can you get this sense then? >> if we are able to get people really from the onerous obamacare regulations and mandates that the premiums will calm down and people will be a little choose plants that are good for them, not what the government tells them they should have, that is the whole ball game. i would be happy to vote for a ll like that. maria: you just mentioned 15%. when i went to the campaign -- president campaigned on. paul weinstein and the house is 20%. why should we believe you get a tax deal done when health care just failed? are you going to have the same battle when it all comes down to over 15% corporate tax rate versus 20% over possible border adjustment act over deductions that everybody wants to hold onto their deductions and they have their lobbying have their lobby groups. isn't there a lot of battles right now brewing over this tax reform package as well? how did they know to get that done? >> you are right.
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the 15% to 20% will be a dealbreaker. that is so far in the right direction that is something you take if you get 20 instead of 15. i think you are right when you hear people talk about carbon tax, border attacks, some of these new taxes, that does make it much more difficult because republicans didn't campaign on any of that. i think we've always said we tax reform we want to really dramatic the lower the rate, get rid of the deduction and locals which i agree with you can be challenging. you are broadening the base. within that framework we can get there. when you talk about exploded like a carbon tax, and that makes it way more difficult. republicans are going to go to that. maria: a lot of republicans will go for eliminating the prorty reduction come and save income deduction. congressman had told me they can't find anything. let me ask you this. the thing about the republican as their offense will. you're not going to vote for some and you don't agree with.
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and then the process, the democrats could all in mind. they just move it lowered. who's going to be was on civil is nothing gets done in 2017? is there any way you would allow that to happen? >> i don't think we can allow that to happen. with health care we campaigned so hard against obamacare. let's be clear, we would have never won the house and senate must we were opposed to obamacare. that was the key issue. to walk away after 17 days is not except the ball. it's not always easy. you may have to take a tough vote or two. that's the way it goes. tax is that we a good pass. there were complications. the key is are democrats going to help lower taxes? they may not. maria: should assume they are not? they are not there now. they haven't been there at all. >> i think you're probably right.
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that makes it more difficult given reagan did the tax department 86 when he got 90 votes in the senate. that's inconceivable that what happenedoday because they ve gone in the direction of bernie sanders co elizabeth warren liberalism. the taxes we have to do ourselves a member would be nice to get moderate democrats in the senate to help us doing things which really will increase their economic growth rate, which will be good for everyone when that happens. maria: certainly a priority of the administration. we will be watching. i know you have a lot of airplay. thanks for joining us this morning. congressmen ron desantis, happy easter to you, sir. if tax refund is not happening quickly, what can the white house we have statistically accomplished? dr. grover norquist the president for american t c'mon in, pop pop!
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maria: welcome back a tax reform in the works, but the august deadline set by treasury secretary stephen mnuchin is not going to happen. grover norquist is the president for american tax reform. good to see you. 10 joining us. >> hi, maria. trained with the president is going on about health care needing to be first to my push bike instead people like tax reform in the businessn particular to move the needle on omic growth. you still see text firm happening in 2017? >> i do have those republicans who undermined trump and the republicans in house and senate by not passing health care reform a couple weeks ago. they come back to the table and understand that we are not going to solve all the worlds problems in one blow.
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it's going to take many bites at the apple and step one was to eliminate your this is what they didn't vote for. this is a trillion dollars -- 900 billion -- a trillion dollars of tax reduction. that was in the obamacare tax repeal bill. it also block granted an entire medicaid, something republicans would want to do going back to the gingrich years as well as expanding hsa. if you do that, you are a trillion dollars close to every decade to where we want to be with tax reform. and then you take the corporate rate 20% of chapter as rates 25% for the full business exam. together you have taken to giant leaps forward towards growth. by holding things up for two weeks, they may have killed healthcarhealthcar e if they don't get back to the table. they could have permanently
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damaged, triple tax refund. but you'd be a trillion dollar short. this is not just a bunch of guys obsessing about they didn't get their way because they didn't pay attention to get their homework done on time. maria: i want to go through the bottom with you and talk about about these things people are fighting over. the deduction ,-com,-com ma the property deduction. i had one congressman tommy i can't vote for anything if they eliminate the property deduction because my constituents are paying $25,000 a year in property taxes. there's also a state income tax deductions. if those things stand, there's a big battle, also a big title around the border adjustment tax idea. so are we going to see the same drawnout height of the software help care, do you think? >> i think it's less of because look, they've been working on this for months and the years on health care. not in 19 days. anyone who wanted to participate
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was to participate with almost a year ago, six months ago. they showed up late to the party not decide what what to let it everybody else's work. we are even further along or not on tax reform. this has been in play. if you haven't been at the table making a case, you should be fired by your insurance. if you come up with some new idea next week that you can't live without, you should be fired. maria: let me ask you this. at one point in my interview with the president, is that if we just can't come to an agreement, i'll just do tax cut. do you think that there is a likelihood that in 2017 we just simply see a cutting corporate taxes, cutting individual taxes and not this overall tax reform package that includes the elimination of deductions, that includes the border tax? is that a possibility or do you believe will see a tax reform package this year? tell me what it will look like. >> i believe we will get a tax reform package this year.
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the freedom caucus thinks health care and normal tax reform, we could end up with a very shrink down version of tax reform. the guys who torpedoed how scared are threatening to torpedo tax reform because by dewayne net, the congressman if he were people talking about carbon taxes where did that come from? two weeks of delay. maria: you are right. lower corporate taxes. you think it's in there? real quick. >> something that allows you to go to full territoriality, probably adjustable with a longer season than others might've thought originally. maria: great to see you. thank you very much. grover norquist joining us for the rest of my interview with resident trout talking about foreign policy challenges right now including russia's involvement area as we look ahead this morning on "sunday morning futures." people are stuck in very old habits of using toothpaste to
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♪you may say i'm a dreamer ♪but i'm not the only one ♪i hope some day you'll join us♪ ♪and the world will be as one ♪imagine no possessions ♪i wonder if you can ♪no need for greed or hunger ♪a brotherhood of man ♪imagine all the people
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♪sharing all the world...you, ♪you may say i'm a dreamer ♪but i'm not the only one ♪i hope some day you'll join us♪ ♪and the world will live as one♪ maria: welcome back u.s. missile strikes on syria, growing tensions with north korea, battle for mosul. all of these topics on the table
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with mic cluesive interview this week with president trump. >> we're not going into syria, you know there were questions, nikki haley is doing a great job, rex is doing a fantastic job. general mcmaster, fantastic. if you add it up, if they take every word, they -- just say you understand, we're not going into syria. but when i see people using horrible chemical weapons, which they agreed not to use under the obama administration, but they violated it. maria: they said they got rid of them. >> what i did, should have been done by the obama administration, a long time before i did it you would have had a much better, i think that syria would be better off now. maria: obama pushed. >> he didn't do it, they had a big attack right after he draw the red line in the sand,
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everyone waite nhing happenedeven the obama people admitted higadmit he was wrong g it. when i look at pictures of any show, newspaper, you see them -- >> children. >> you see these beautiful kids, that are dead their father's arms orchi or you see kids gaspr life, it is over for them, they are hosing them down, hundreds. you see, that i immediately called general mattis, i said what can we do? they came back with a number of different alternatives. we hit them hard, now, are we going to get involved with syria? no. but if i see them using gas and things that even some of the worst tyrants in the world didn't use the kind of gases they used. some of the gases are unbelievably potent.
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so when i saw that, i said we have to do something. have you have peace in syria it is enough. frankly we talked chemicals because people don't see this, the level of brutality, but when they drop barrel bombs and bombs of any kind on top of a civilian population, this is the worst thing, i have never seen anything like it. frankly, putin is backing a person that is tru an il person. i think it is very bad for russia. i think it is very bad for mankind. it is very bad for this world. but when you drop gas or bombs or barrel bombs with massive barrels with dynamite, they drop them in the middle of a group of people, and in all fairness you see the same kids no arms, no legs no face, this is an animal. i really think that there will be a lot of pressure on russia
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to make sure that peace happens. if russia didn't go in and back this animal, you wouldn't have a problem right now. highe was going to be over thrown. i thought he of the gone, he had another week, nothing. he had nothing. then russia came in and saved him, then obama made one of the worst deals in history with the iran deal, you have iran and you have russia. and you have assad. maria: you redirected navy ships to go toward the korean peninsula, what are we doing now in terms of north korea? >> you never know do you, you never know. maria: that is all? >> i don't talk about the military. they are still fighting, mosul was supposed to last for a week, now it is many months, i don't want to talk about it we're sending an armada.
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very powerful. we have submarines, very powerful. more powerful than the airaft carrier, that, i can tell you. we have the best military people on earth. i will say this, he is doing the wrong thing. he is making a big mistake. maria: do you think he is mentally fit? >> i don't know. i don't know him. but he is doing the wrong thing. i had a very good meeting with president xi of china, really liked him. we had great chemistry, i think, at least i did, maybe he didn't like me, but i think he liked me. we had a 10 or 15 minute sit down that lasted 3 hours, the next day, it is scheduled, everything is orderly with the chinese, the 15 minutes on 6 day
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lasted two hours. just one-on-one, the two of us with interpreters. we understand each other. i think he is a person that i got a long with really well, we had a good chemistry. maria: did he give you any suggestion that he would help with north korea? did you get into trade and currency. >> first thing i brought up was north korea. we can't allow it. it is no good for you, have you a tremendous power because of trade. he then explains thousands of years of history with korea. not that easy. in other words not as simple as people would think, they had tremendous conflict with korea over the years. now his father was in china 4 times, he was never in china. so i said, look, you have a tremendous power because of trading through the border, they dodon't get food, they don't get
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coall coal, today i heard two massive coal ships were sent back to china that was a good sign. i think that china can help us, i hope china can help us, we talked about trade. i can tell you china will do much bet or trade if they helpous north korea. maria: you think he knows that. >> i dol told him that. maria: when you with president of china, you were launching the military strikes, was that planned? right then you are saying, a reminder who is the super power in the world. >> you have no idea how many people want the answer to this, i have watched speculation for 3 days. days. i was sitting at the table, we're having dessert, we had the most beautiful piece of chocolate cake, and president xi was enjoying it. i was given the message from the
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generals. that the ships are locked and loaded, what do you do? we made a determination to do it. so the missiles were on the way. and i said, mr. president, let me explain something to you, this is during dessert. we have just fired 59 missiles, all of which hit, by the way, unbelievable from hundreds of miles away, all of which hit. maria: unmanned. >> incredible, billion, genius, our technology, our equipment is better than anybody by a factor of five, we have in terms of technology, nobody come close to competing, we'll start getting it, because you know military has been cutback so badly by past administration and the war in iraq. which was another disaster. what happens is i said, we just launched 59 missiles. heading to iraq. maria: to syria.
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>> yes to syria. and i want you to know that, i didn't want him to go home, it was a full day in palm beach, we'rwe're almost finished. what does he do, he finishes dessert, and go home, and they say, yo you know the guy you had dinner with just attacked. maria: how did he react? >> he paused for 10 seconds, and he asked the interpreter to please, say it again. i didn't could it was a good sign, he -- i didn't think that was a good sign. he said to me, anybody that uses gases, that was to brutal and do that to young children, and babies, it is okay. >> he agreed. >> he was okay with it, we got along. there was a great feeling i think, between both of us. we have very two different countries and two very different peoples.
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but i think high understood the message. i understood what hig ohio was saying -- understand what he was sayings to me. maria: that was president trump's interview with week, what kind of message does it send to china and the rest of the world? our panel is on deck next as we take a look, we're on "sunday morning futures" back in a moment. my friends think doing this at my age is scary. i say not if you protect yourself. what is scary? pneumococcal pneumonia. it's a serious disease. my doctor said the risk is greater now that i'm over 50! yeah...ya-ha... just one dose of the prevnar 13® vaccine can help protect you from pneumococcal pneumonia- an illness that can cause coughing, chest pain, difficulty breathing, and may even put you in the hospital. prevnar 13® is approved for adults 18 and older to help prevent infections from 13 strains of the bacteria that
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and marley. great to see you, what do you make of that? >> it was extraordinary, a dib deliberate message, he sent two loud messages this week, to syria, and second big bomb in afghanistan, which has been sitting there for years, he let the ground commander make that decision. once, we're back in the game, two, we'll use power politics and to the military, i'm going to let you tell me what you need to do to get the job done. maria: i agree, a reminder to president of china, who the per power in the wors. >> no doubt, and also a sign of respect, president was meeting with the president of a very significant country. in a person region of the world, and he wanted to hear it directly from the president, as opposed to going back to his suite and hearing it from
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chinese advisers, if sent a powerfuls remadges message and a sign of respect for president xi . maria: i was not smiling or laughing over the atrocities, but the idea of chocolate shakee narrative, it was funny. >> it was reality television without the television, a lot of reality came into donald trump's world. and he reacted. i agree with brad, showing respect for china, a tilt this week away from vladimir putin today china, almost like kissinger is back. all tweets have said, why would i call them a currency manipulate or, i think you see a
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real shift toward china as a potential ally. >> and looking at week between your interview and "wall street journal" interview, he reversed course on about six major issues he talked about on the campaign. i see that as a learning process, getting the team around him, that gives him council, it is a complicated job. the key thing and les lesson is military people have a team he trusts the most, till so tillern hahasbecome a star. maria: i like the idea that president takes council directly froms generals on fronts line, that had not been the case in prior few years. >> no, they were hand cuffed, now our president says, you are the professionals, the mission is to eliminate isis, you tell me the best way, most fudga funl
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way that will save lives and i'll do it, he has done it several times to great success. maria: look at how the world changed. you made point, north korea, syria, russia. china. is he going to be a war president? >> that would be a big red line for president trump. he ran on not getting involved in middle eastern wars, and bombing isis and putting an end to them, those two goals might be in conflict. i think if he becomes a war president that will betray what he ran on. >> critical thing, we have a serious ally in south korea. and threat it to south korea not the threat to -- you know. that north koreans can talk about all of the time atckg us, they can't get to us but they can get to south korea. we have a very personally there, to be careful of, but i think that show of strength, that bomb sat there for two years, you didn't need that bomb to blow up
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100 people, he could have done it with a cruise missile, that bomb sent a big message. maria: the mother of all bombs. >> the biggest bomb that we've used since world war ii. maria: and look at this, they killed norris is fighter -- isis fighters when we come back, president trump is winning praise from the dc establishment, has anything changed?
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maria: back with our panel talking about the domestic agenda, what is your take, healthcare and tax reform. >> i don't think they will go anywhere. i understand where president
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trump wants to do health care first. it will do tax reform easier. but, i just down see how there are any -- how they are any further along today to pass manage to replace obamacare. maria: this is a brig problem, if you don't get tax reform done. that is what will move the needle on economic growth, what do you think happens. >> my message to republicans circumstance you ran -- is you ran, not just the president. entire platform ran on these reforms, 2017 must be the year for action, 2018 will be a year of decision, we gave the republicans all power we can give they better deliver. maria: they know that, right? >> i would have don repeal immediately, an hr1, and repealing obamacare in two years. today you have two years to for us to come up with an alternate
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plan to do it in a short period time with a new team and new congress is difficult. maria: instead they tweaked it. >> still, you can't. the more important thing he promised is getting this economy moving and creating jobs, business tax will do that. the basically infrastructure will do that and those are the things he has to move forward on. maria: other thing is repay repatriation. he is trueing t is trying to mar to move companies back to u.s. >> you dock tha you could do thn corporate tax cut. some boost to the economy it would be something, a smaller bite of the apple. >> you could throw in the beginning of the infrastructure reform in the same use some of the resources to build infrastructure.
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maria: which is also a job create ocreate creator. >> you mary infrastructure with taxes, if you do, that you have a better chance of horse trading between infrastructure and taxes, corporate rate has to be dealt with, president promised 15%, close to 40% now. let's bring it to 20%. a victory. and then if we can help, individual rates, 7 rates now from 10 to 40%, give the individuals a break, and i think you will join up the economy in short order. maria: you think they will get it done. >> they have to. >> it took forever to get health care throughdemocrs had a lot more members. the probm is the numbers are so slim, we have to do what we can do. i think that infrastructure and business tax movement. maria: we'll leave it there, great to see you there.
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thank you so much. >> thank you. >> fantastic panel, from all of us here, have a blessed easter, i will see you tomorrow morning
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>> lou: rex tillerson following the president's lead of directness. tillerson opened talks with vladimar putin two hours in the puttin. tillerson said he and putin don't agree on much. >> there is a low level of trust between our two countrieses. the world's foremost

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