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tv   Lou Dobbs Tonight  FOX Business  May 26, 2017 7:00pm-8:01pm EDT

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brother. charles: all right, guys. thank you both very much. , and of course, want to say a special thank you to those members of active duty military who died for us to be here and to have these conversations. happy memorial day to everyone. be safe but enjoy yourself. now here's lou. ♪ ♪ lou: good evening, everyone, i'm trish regan in for lou dobbs. president trump is in italy, the final stop on a wild hi-successful first -- wildly-successful first foreign trip, meeting with g7 leaders who agreed to do more to fight radical terrorism. deep divisions, however, on what to do about climate change. fox news' chief white house correspondent john roberts is traveling with the president, and he has our report. >> reporter: another terror attack today, this one against coptic christians in egypt reinforced what the president has been saying all week, that the world needs to come together to defeat what he calls a war against civilization.
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the italian team kicked off what would typically be a wonk by summit dedicated to economics and trade, but the g7 took on an emotional tone today as the seven leaders signed a joint communique to fight terror and violent extremism. >> after what happened a few days ago in manchester, this is also a message of friendship and community with the u.k. >> reporter: british prime minister theresa a may thanked her colleagues for their support in the face of monday's horrific art. >> i think it's important that as leaders we have shown fierce determination to insure that we use every tool available to us to fight against terrorism and protect our people. >> reporter: the u.s. and u.k. appeared to put behind them a brief fight over intelligence sharing. u.k. police suspended the agreement after details about the manchester bombing leaked in the united states. president trump and the prime
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minister spoke about it at the nato summit last night while secretary of state rex tillerson delivered a personal mea culpa to britain's foreign secretary, boris johnson. >> we take full responsibility for that, and we are -- we, obviously, regret that that happened. >> reporter: as the g7 got underway in sicily, more fallout from yesterday's meetings in brussels where the president criticized nato members who weren't with pulling their weight and appeared to push aside the prime minister of montenegro. according to german media in a meeting of e.u. leaders, president trump said the germans were bad, really bad. this morning his chief economic adviser, gary cohn, moved to clean up the incident, insisting the president was talking about german trade practices, not germany itself. and later today said, well, the whole thing never happened. the white house also moved today to clarify a statement about russia sanctions. yesterday gary cohn said president trump was, quote, looking at the future of sanctions against russia. today in an off-camera briefing cohn shot down peculation that
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the president may be -- speculation that the president may be thinking of dialing back on russia sanctions. >> we're not lowering our sanctions on russia. so the president wants to continue to keep the sanctions in place. >> reporter: but cohn did they the president's thinking on climate change was, quote, evolving. president trump is expected to make a decision after the summit on whether to pull out of the paris climate accord. >> i think his views are evolving, and he came here to learn, and he came here to get smarter and hear people's, world leaders' views some of which have been involved with the paris agreement for many years. >> reporter: we have no idea at this point which way the president is going to go. he told the leaders here in italy that he really does care about the environment, but he's also concerned by adhering to the strict protocols the united states risks falling behind countries like china and india in terms of manufacturing and job creation. trish? trish: thank you so much, john roberts.
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all right. turning now to the ever-worsening obama spy scandal. the obama administration has been under fire this week over revelations that obama's nsa illegally spied on thousands of americans. now it turns out that the fbi also illegally shared that day with outside contractors who did not have clearance to review the information. fox news chief washington correspondent james rosen has been following this story all week and has our report. >> reporter: trish, good evening. these documents declassified earlier this month show the foreign intelligence surveillance court sternly admonished the fbi for violating the the laws governing the bureau's handling of certain kinds of classified intelligence. at issue is the national security agency's target of foreigners outside the u.s. the fbi can query the nsa's 702 database to find a u.s. citizen, his phone number or e-mail
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address but only under certain restrictions. before being fired by president trump, director comey assured lawmakers those provisions are strictly observed. >> the information that's in the 702 database has been lawfully collected, carefully overseen and checked, and our use of it is also carefully overseen and checked. nobody gets access to the information that sits in the 702 database unless they've been trained correctly. >> reporter: yet the fisa court found the fbi made intel available to contractors and sometimes retained the data for too long. these are breaches of minimization, the practice of keeping to a minimum an agency's infringement of a u.s. citizen's rights. the contractors had is access to raw fisa information that went well beyond what was necessary to respond to the fbi's requests. the um proper access seems to have been the result of deliberate decision making. the court went on to say it is concerned about the fbi's
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apparent disregard of minimization rules and whether the fbi may be engaging in similar disclosures of raw section 702 information that have not been reported. >> definitely looks like there should be some repercussions for those who broke the law, and it does look like there might be some work for congress in terms of fine tuning the law. >> reporter: the fisa court also detailed concerns it has harbored since 2014 about the fbi's compliance with something called review team procedures. these relate to the sequestration of certain kinds of data to keep that data out of the hands of officials involved in criminal prosecutions. trish? trish: thank you so much, james rosen. joining me right now to discuss everything from the classified intelligence to the deals being sought on terrorism, trade and climate at the g7, veteran of ten presidential campaigns, republican strategist, fox news contributor, the dean, you know him, ed rollins. >> thank you very much. trish: good to see you, ed. all right. let's start first with what is very disturbing here, and that's the idea that our government was
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spying on people that they didn't have a right to spy on. what does this tell you about the intelligence community? >> it tells me that over the last several years too many people have gotten intelligence, gotten clearances at the highest level, many contractors came into the process, and it really needs to be tightened up. whoever ends up being the new fbi director along with the cia team, they need to sit down, the president needs to lay the law to them and say this kind of behavior is not allowed. it's just going to stop. there's too much danger to the spying on american citizens and disregard for their rights, and i think to a certain extent what's happening with all these leaks -- not just the ones in the past, but the ones going on right today -- is the intelligence community for whatever reason don't feel a loyalty to the administration. trish: it's the wild west. in other words, they were able to do what they wanted to do previously? >> and what you have to do is put a discipline in there, again, restrict the numbers of people who have access to this material.
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and the problem with the day and age of computers and what have you, if everybody has a top clearance or very high clearance, they all can play around and get stuff that they shouldn't be getting, and they're dispersing it where they shouldn't be, and people need to have a serious conversation with the president of the united states concern. trish: i think one of the things that's most disturbing is if you are a member of intelligence community, you would think your number one priority above all keep us safe, keep americans safe. and yet you see what unfolded in manchester there where people here on this side of the pond were sharing information with the press, and this is something that is detrimental to our relationship with the u.k., detrimental to the investigation and, therefore, detrimental to all of us in the free world. >> i applaud secretary of state tillerson for the apology today he made, can you imagine john kerry making a public apology equivalent? and i think to a certain extent
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it was a positive step. i think the president had a great trip, but he needs to come back now and straighten out the team around him. trish: well, we're getting word of that. there's a report today that three people have been identified by the white house as leakers. and they're supposedly going to be fired. >> well, i would fire them in a heartbeat, and i think at the end of the day there's probably 10, 20 more. a lot of these stories have 12 sources, 15 sources, and the information is very damaging -- trish: have you ever seen anything like this? >> i've served in two white houses, and there's a lot of leaks, but never like this. this is just ridiculous. this stuff in manchester, there's no need for "the new york times" to basically be reporting this stuff, and i think to a certain extent you've got to crack down and have a heart to heart with the media that we're not going to, basically, diminish your freedoms of the press, but you
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have to protect people too. trish: that gets me to word that steve bannon is actively working to build a team of surrogates that can go out there and communicate a message that's different to the media. one of the challenges that this white house, frankly, has had is they haven't been able to, quote-unquote, sell their side of the story. you're a veteran of political campaigns. how important is that? >> it's, i'm a big steve bannon fan. he ran this campaign, and donald trump would not be in the white housed today without -- white house today without the strategic ability of steve bannon. i think it's important. i think the key thing is don't let it get away from the white house. it has to be independent of what's going on day-to-day, but at the same time don't create, don't create a cam cause key -- kamikaze, basically have an instant response, have lawyers there, make sure the stories are being told accurately because this process is probably going to go on for two or three years, the mueller commission and what have you, the hill hearings. i think steve's a superb choice
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to go do that and make everybody that comes into that mix take an oath of secrecy, and if they leak any of that, they're fired. trish: you've got to lay down the la. all right. ed rollins, thank you. >> thank you very much. trish: we're going to come back in just a couple minutes. stay with us. secretary of state rex tillerson says the u.s. takes full responsibility for intelligence leaks from the manchester terror attack. >> the president has been very strong in his condemnation and his calls for an immediate investigation and prosecution. trish: we take up the deeply troubling leaks with former cia operations officer scott eulinger next. and republicans across the country tonight breathing a sigh of relief after montana's republican won a special election just a day after he was accused of body slamming a reporter. that story and much more straight ahead. ♪ ♪
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trish: british prime minister theresa may today confirming she raised concerns with president trump over u.s. leaks to the media revealing sensitive details about the manchester bombing investigation. watch. >> yes, i did raise the issue of leaks of information that are being shared by the police with the fbi with president trump.
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he has made clear that that was unacceptable. the metropolitan police, as i you said it, received assurances from the fbi and are now, have restarted the process of sharing information with them. trish: all right. joining me to discuss the damaging leaks and the mounting amount of evidence that suggests the obama administration really went far beyond where they ever should have gone in terms of the surveillance on everyday americans, former cia operations officer scott eulinger. good to have you. >> thank you. trish: first of all, how important is it for all of us to be sharing any information, intelligence gathering on any potential terrorist? >> right. counterintelligence information, of all information, has to be widely shared by law enforcement and intelligence agencies in the western world. that has to be done to make sure to prevent terrorism from happening. the downside is that you are giving a greater number of people access to that information. and in this case, someone abused that privilege and leaked it --
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trish: have you seen that before? >> i have seen it before, and it can have a damaging effect on our relationship are. we've seen it with great britain. now, things will be back on track because we work very closely with great britain. but we have with to be careful with our information, because we can alienate the services on which we sometimes rely to receive intelligence, especially counterterrorism -- trish: well, clearly they have a problem. ed rollins was just saying, look, he's got to go in and lay down the law and say we're going to get rid of these leakers. there's a report by cbs saying they've identified three of them, but there are likely many more, and so they've got to close that chapter. it's not just damaging to the international community and these terror investigations, it's damaging, obviously, to his agenda in terms of what he needs and wants to get done. let me move on to this, and that's what we are learning here about the obama administration having, basically, gone far above and beyond what they legally were capable of doing to search everyday americans for information.
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what is your take on this, and where does this go? >> there's no question that that is the real story here. that is, there's no question that that is an abuse of power on the part of the obama administration. they liberalized the sharing of raw nsa intelligence across the government so that any number of government agencies could access that information. and it's clear from the number of unmaskings which were, like, increased by a factor of three over the past two years, that they were apparently using it for political ends. they were seeking to use it to dig up dirt regarding the trump administration and other people. by circumventing u.s. law, by monitoring foreigners, they accidentally collect information on the americans that those foreigners have contact with and, thus, getting around -- trish: so this is a big deal. >> it's, it's extremely concerning. trish: you're telling me it was politically motivated -- >> that's right. >> trish: -- and they were digging up information for political purposes as opposed to keeping
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us safe, then there could be some very big ramifications here. >> that's right. and i think that's the reason why susan rice to date has not agreed to speak in front of the senate, because she's afraid of what she's going to reveal. and that is -- trish: ask you think she knew about this? >> yes. she was, in fact, behind several of the money maskings. -- unmasks. i believe she had at least the tacit approval of her superiors to do this. now, other people can do this in the government too, head of the cia, perhaps head of the nsa and other people in the national security structure. but she, apparently, was one of the leading figures behind these unmaskings -- trish: and that's unusual. >> yes, it is, because it was done at a much higher rate than in previous years. it was something like three times more americans were unmasked in the year of the election, 2016, than in the previous year. and i'm sorry, that smells to me -- having worked in the intelligence community for, you know, almost 18 years -- that smells to me like abuse of power
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at a minimum. trish: wow. >> and perhaps something more serious. trish: we'll stay on it. thank you so much, scott. good to have you here. >> thank you. trish: be sure you vote in tonight's poll, do you believe the national left-wing media will ever give president trump credit for his highly successful first foreign trip? cast your vote. and a reminder, follow lou on twitter @lou dobbs, like lou on facebook and instagram instagras tonight. on wall street, you had the dow off three points, the s&p closed at a new all-time high and nasdaq up five points, also closing at a record high. volume on the big board light, 2.8 billion shares today. for the week the dow and nasdaq up more than 1%. the nasdaq posting weekly gains of 2%. the economy growing at a faster pace than previously estimated. a little good news here. first quarter gdp revised higher to 1.2%. and a reminder to listen to lou's financial reports three
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times a day coast to coast on the salem radio network. up next, president trump today warning that the north korean problem will be solved. >> the big problem, it's a world problem, and it will be involved at some point. it will be solved. you can bet on that. trish: but there are growing concerns from some security experts who worry north korea could use a missile launch to pave the way for an attack on our power grid. this is very serious. we have a full report for you next. ♪ ♪ are allergies holding you back?
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trish: all right, everyone, china buzzing a u.s. surveillance plane. the two chinese j-10 fighter jets flew within 200 yards of a u.s. reconnaissance plane on wednesday, approximately 150 miles southeast of hong kong. the incident occurred one day before a navy destroyer sailed near one of china's manmade islands in the south china sea. the pentagon planning to shoot down an icbm next week for the first time following north korea's twoingful ballistic missile tests -- two successful ballistic missile tests, but an intercontinental ballistic missile not the only threat facing this country from a nuclear north korea. fox news correspondent doug mckelway has our report. >> reporter: today the old duck and cover films from cold war days seem quaint.
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to many, a nuclear blast and its emp seems so unimaginable, so unlikely that few worry about it and fewer still take any precautions. >> it's not real, and it's something out of a james bond movie. general consensus is that it is not a real threat, it's not imminent by any stretch is of the imagination. >> tell that to the head of the emp commission. >> we have information, for example, the data from actual high altitude nuclear detonations that were conducted by us and the russians back in the 1961-'62 time frame that did things like knock the lights out in hawaii. >> reporter: an emp is a short burst of electromagnetic energy. a large emp triggered over the united states from an orbiting nuke at the right altitude could fry the circuitry of cell phones, render electronic banking, automobile computers, railways, air traffic control and airplanes themselves useless.
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food would rot in refrigerators and in farm fields with no means of transporting products to population centers. a truly mad max world would evolve. he believes naivete about emp pervades the western democracies where nukes are kept mostly out of sight and out of mind. >> for authoritarian states in the case of iran and possibly north korea, the use of nuclear weapons is not only unthinkable, but in their open source military doctrine, you know, they've written for years about being able to win a nuclear war, that you can fight a nuclear war. >> reporter: adding to worries, north korea's recent successful test of a solid-fueled ballistic missile which needs less preparation, meaning less warning time for those targeted. in addition, north korea also has at least two observation satellites that orbit over the u.s. at an altitude ideal for an emp attack. for years congress has struggled with many bills designed to harden the nation's electric
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grid against an attack, but none have made it out of committee. special interests often intervene, fearful of the costs of upgrades when the effects are still being disputed. trish? trish: thank you so much, doug mckelway. all right, we are coming back with much, much more. stay with us. homeland security secretary john kelly blasting president obama for letting ms-13 gang members into the country. >> that would have never happened on my watch. we are taking care of business on the border. border crossings are down by 70%. trish: we take up the ongoing battle to protect the border with fred barnes and heather higgins. they'll be here next. and these wing suiters take their dancing skills to the next level. we will have the spectacular adventure video and much more coming up here next. be right back. ♪ ♪
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trish: the trump administration cracking down on illegal immigration, with authorities arresting nearly 200 criminal i am grants los angeles area during a five-day raid. since president trump took office immigrations and customs has arrested 41,000 illegal immigrants. 75% of them are convicted criminals.
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republican greg gianforte's special election victory in montana. he's charged withassaulting a reporter. he apologized during his victory speech. >> last night i made a mistake. i took an action i can't take back, and i am not proud of what happened. i should not have reresponsibility the way -- i should not have responded the way i did and i'm sorry. it's not the person i am. trish: the executive editor for the weekly standard and fox news contributor fred barnes, and president and ceo of the of independent women's voice, heather higgins. your reaction to this montana situation.
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>> i think voters understood it was a very politicized environment, and i think many of them interpreted what happened as a provoked attack. he didn't randomly strike out at the reporter. he overreacted. but from all those voters who were asked who were voting. third of them already voted. but among those who already voted it didn't have an effect. and i understand his fundraising skyrocketed after his incident. given how the media is disliked by a lot of voter this may actually have helped him. trish: the reality is this guy is a reporter asking about the cbo report and it was an uncalled for reaction. e is right to apologize.
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but that said, voters are going to the polls and choosing between two different outcomes. one outcome is on the left, and the other outcome they feel might be better for their economic future on the right. it's anaigs what people will say to heck with because they are so concerned about the future of this country. fred: i couldn't agree more. you touched on the important issue in that campaign, the important decision made by voters. it had nothing to do about the struggle between the republican candidate and a reporter for a british newspaper. i remember going back to '3 and '94 and the buildup to a republican sweep and in 2009 when republicans were winning in the first year of obama's presidency, we are seeing nothing like that. normally it's the party out of power that would be winning
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these special elections. that's the natural thing. they are not winning. the healthcare issue the democrats touted isn't working. they brought in bernie sanders who is supposed to be the favorites of the democratic grass roots, and that didn't work. i think this not this national massive anti-trump movement building the way democrats and the press have described to us. >> fred is exactly right. interesting thing about this race is gianforte took the issue of draining the swamp and made it a referendum of do you want somebody in washington who will help trump drain the swamp. trish: americans want to vote for someone they think stands for something. right now the democrats are just against trump. that's their platform. and it's not working.
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it's just not working because people want to see this country move forward. for their own good, do they not need to actually start to develop some kinds of meaningful policy other than we don't like trump? >> the old adage is you need a horse to beat a horse. if you are not for something, it will be harder for you to be persuasive that you actually have policies. we are coming off 8 years of democrats having largely carte blanche to have their policies in place. until the democrats come up with a new play book, i don't any it will work so well for them. trish: let me turn to immigration. its pretty remarkable when you see the increase in the number of arrests. we also have gone the reports that fewer people are trying to cross our borders illegally. there is a sense that we care.
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we are going to crack down and we are going to get you if you come here illegally. how much of that do you have think is demotivating factor in the way people thinking about crossing that border illegally. fred: it's a huge factor. they know what they are hearing from people in the united states here legally or illegally. when they hear what's going on, then they are far less likely to try to come. also, i would add, i think john kelly is the best single appointment that president trump has made. he's done a terrific job? waver says becomes policies. he said we are not having mass roundups, but they are arresting a lot of illegal immigrants with criminal records. trish: that's an important distinction. the left would like to paint
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this this that they are going door to door and breaking up families and arresting moms and sending them home. but what you are talking about, fred, is something very different. they are going after people that are criminals. and have done really bad things. and don't deserve to be in this country. >> 90% of the people that were round up had prior criminal histories. so you are not only look at great safety for the american people. you are looking at a greater use of resources not sucking up the penal system and criminal justice system. trish: fred barnes, heather higgins. be sure to vote in tonight's poll. do you believe the national media will ever give president trump credit for his highly successful foreign trip?
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these daredevils take dancing to the sky. these two gentlemen leaping out of a plane for a synchro miced wing suit flight. the wing suiters weaving in and out of each other's path, gracefully soaring through the sky in a rather thrilling and beautiful flight that's something to see. president trump touting economic off the mitchell as he meets with foreign leaders. >> we created almost a million new jobs. added over $3 trillion in new value. lifted the burdens on american industry. trish: home depot co-founder sat down with lou earlier and he says president trump could turn out to be one of america's best presidents ever.
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trish: president trump praising his first foreign trip. the president tweeting, just arrived in italy for the g-7. the trip has been very successful. we made and saved the u.s. many billions of dollars and billions of jobs. >> the biggest challenges we have in america is income inequality. you think all this spending, half a trillion, you are talking about, everything is being made here in america, jobs. infrastructure in america.
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jobs. high-paying jobs. okay? middle class jobs. lou: that's to expand the middle class. >> if we can get this economy growing, and i think we can. 3.5% a year over a period of five years, there is no stopping us. lou: i agree with you. i wouldn't say there is no stopping us, if we don't stop
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>> i have no problem with his goals and plans and objective. if he takes a more presidential stand. i ask him to go through a personal transfer. you are talk about a france ferns thing. they want to see hip react to them doing what they do. lou: i think that's a benign view, if i may. the fact is, those stubborn facts are out there and it's the national left-wing media and many of their corporate owners that decided they are going to throw this man as far as they can. they are going to overthrow the government, destroy his presidency and they want like anything to roll it back to when they were nice and comfortable, a nice orthodoxy establishment,
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they could do what they wanted with taxes. whether it's bankruptcy law, step aside, and we'll write the law. and we'll get more basic. >> they threw everything at him they could in the campaign, and guess what? he beat them. lou: i want to hear you are going to stand up against this president, the business round table, the chamber of commerce and every single power center in the country and say represent the american people, mr. president. and what you promised to deliver. >> i will do it right now. if what i'm asking him to do, mr. president, these are the things you promised you were going to do, now go do them. isn't that all we want from any politician? it will be one of the first times it happens if it does. lou: if that's all we ever ask for, this one is actually delivering. >> so far. lou: it's great to see you.
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please come back and school me some more. >> you school me. you are the presumed sage. not me. lou: not me. >> yeah, you. you came from will you be book, texas. i'm from the streets of long island. lou: * thank you for all you do. trish: both those guys are great. they can school every one. facebook ceo mark zuckerberg praising universal basic income. he want everyone to get a check. guess who's going to pay for it. does this have anything to do with sound economic policy? now i have nicoderm cq. the nicoderm cq patch with unique extended release technology helps prevent your urge to smoke all day. it's the best thing that ever happened to me. every great why needs a great how.
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dearthere's no other way to say this. it's over. i've found a permanent escape from monotony. together, we are perfectly balanced, our senses awake, our hearts racing as one. i know this is sudden, but they say: if you love something... set it free. see you around, giulia ♪ that airline credit card yout? have... it could be better. it's time to shake things up. with the capital one venture card, you get double miles on everything you buy, not just airline purchases.
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trish: in our online poll we asked you is the manchester intelligence leak proof that the president needs to drain the swamp. 98% said yes. facebook ceo mark zuckerberg wants guaranteed income for everyone. >> every generation expands its definition of equality. today we have a level of wealth
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inequality that hurts everyone. we should explore ideas like universal basic income to make sure everyone has a cushion to try new ideas. trish: i'll refrain from saying anything because this guy is going to say it. here to break it down, let's see steve forbes. let's start with zuckerberg saying okay, you should all get a handout, a check from the government just for being alive. what's wrong with that. >> you have to produce the resources to give out the researses. if you remove the barriers to creating the resources everyone's standard of living improves. we spend a trillion dollars a year on various welfare program.
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if he's proposing what finland has done, take that trillion and combine the together and instead of having it spread out over numerous agencies and programs, that would be interesting. trish: i hear you. >> but the idea of an income for everyone will make sure everyone's average income is lower. it will reduce investment and reduce kinds of things that make for a higher standard of living. trish: you are speaking in economic terms. i look at it in basic human instinct terms. we all get up and are motivated to go to work every day in part because we are trying to achieve something. whether it's earning money or politics, political achievements. it's part of who we are. this is a very american value. steve: it's to understanding human nature.
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some people just work because they have to. and if they don't have to, they will probably work less. what he's proposing is you are not going -- they are not going to have an incentive, and that hurts you, that hurts everyone else. so again sounds nice, but in the real world it will do more harm and good and lead to a lower standard of living. >> i worry. you do something like that and we are on a path to becoming france and china can take over as the united states of america in terms of size and prosperity. steve: youthful unemployment in france, 25%. spain almost 40%. do we want to do that to young people? trish: absolutely not. let's turn to the president's trip. successful in your view?
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steve: yes, and i think it will reassure doubters that this man can do the presidency. while he ruffled some feathers on nato, i think most people would agree many of those countries should be doing more on defense. trish: angela merkel. they are all there standing listening to his speech and he's saying you guys have to pay right to their faces. they agreed to pay it. they agreed to pay it. and to not do so, it's not fair, it's not right. it shows you they don't value nato if they are not willing to support it. steve: what he did at the beginning of the trip, be very, the middle east, the arab countries were worried the u.s. was pulling back. israel was worried about the previous administration. now an alliance is beginning to take form against iran. things are changing. trish: steve forbes, great to
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see you. have a great memorial day weekend. thank you for joining me the last two nights. louis back tuesday. he's got some very big guests lined up. i will see you on "the intelligence report." good night from northern. >> announcer: from fox business head quarters in new york city the new "wall street week." maria: welcome to "wall street week," the program that analyzes the week that was and positions you for the week ahead. former u.s. treasury secretary larry summers is my special guest. the trump budget request calls for a reduction to the spending growth of several programs. democrats say the plan deprives the nation's poor of key services. >> we are not kicking anybody off of any program who really

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