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tv   Making Money With Charles Payne  FOX Business  November 9, 2017 6:00pm-7:01pm EST

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>> okay we got this breaking news senate republicans about to talk their tax cut package we're going to send it to charles payne to pick it up. charles. thank you very much e-mac. i'm charles payne and we got several blockbuster stories all developing right now. of course the market did plunge on comments from treasury secretary steven mnuchin when he told maria bartiromo that the corporate tax rate may not be cut right away. major indices climbed but there are other concerns i'll walk you through later on in the show. this of course while president trump is in china talking 250 billion in deals for the united states, also work for the supply crisis and more later but we've got to start with this gop tax push. efforts entering a critical period the house and senate operating on parallel tracks want to clear legislative hurdle s. now the waynes and means committee send the bill to the full house and will vote on that
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some time next week. our very own adam sha pir a, with the latest a lot to hash out here. >> adam: the most important thing is the house wanted four tax brackets and the senate is proposing take a look at this, seven brackets but when you compare this to what the house was doing a lot say how is this simplification. note i want to show you another graphic we've made the comparison between the two different plans. the top bracket in the house plan is 39.6%, in the senate plan it's 38.5%. the corporate tax rate, charles cut from 35% down to 20% and the house immediately, the senate plan will delay that reduction until, well at least a year. mortgage deduction in the house, they were going to cap it on mortgages of a value up to $500,000. you could deduct the interest and the senate maintains the current mortgage interest tax deduction up to $1 million in
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mortgage value, so the man who is the king maker on the senate finance committee he's the chairman. here is what he's saying about going forward and then reconciling both versions of the bills. >> we hope we can get our democrat colleagues to come with us. whether they do or not we're going to go ahead and change this and get this country moving again. >> but the democrats are already saying, you know, and quoting clint eastwood, make our day past this because they say it will hurt average americans here is what chuck schumer the minority leader in the senate had to say about it. >> chuck: it's a lose-lose for them. they lose if they pass it, they lose if they don't pass it. they lose if they pass it because this is going to hurt them throughout america. >> so one other big thing that's different in these bills, the senate version is a total repeal of salt of the state and local tax deduction. in the house, it's a repeal of those deductions except they would allow you in the house bill to deduct your property tax
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up to $10,000. the senate, no way, totally out and i've been speaking to republicans in the house who say they are opposed to this, for instance tom reed, republican from new york will try and fight the senate version of this. he wants at least that $10,000 cap and the property tax deduction to live in the senate version he does and it doesn't and reed is saying that is not a starter in the house. back to you. >> charles: adam thank you very very much and of course, stocks are trading earlier today on that news, steve mnuchin floated around the idea of the corporate tax rate, delayed and maria bartiromo commented only you saw on fox business nowhere else we've got to show that too. roll tape. >> on the campaign, the president wanted to have a 15% rate and we started at 15% rate, the president got comfortable that 20% was the right balance of what we could afford and an incentive but we're sticking with the 20%. that's critical. >> maria: okay the 20% rate is critical even if it's a year
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later? >> again we rather it sooner but we'll work with the house and senate on the rollout of that. >> charles: joining me now fox news contributor roy murdock, national review contributing editor and elizabeth herrington and hugo gordon. hugo let me start with you. that 20% rate being pushed down spooked the market and then of course there are a whole lot of other elements that came through as the day went on including seven tax brackets. i'm not sure what kind of a postcard we'll fit those on nonetheless wall street speaking for all of america with its confusion and worry. >> yeah, i think there's plenty of reason to be confused and some to be worried there's obviously very substantial differences between the house and the senate and they're going to have to reconcile those differences but i think the thing that i would think that the white house is most concerned about is just pushing out corporate, the corporate tax rate reduction for a year or even possibly more than that, because the principal reason why this tax reform is being pressed
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is about america's inability to compete against much lower tax jurisdictions. sometimes having corporate taxes nearly half what we have and the point of this is a jobs bill to get industry, to get the economy moving, and create jobs, so i think the corporate tax rate is the thing that will be the real sticking point here. >> charles: i think that's right too, president trump always talks about that, always compares us to the rest of the world. let's not forget he started with a 15% corporate tax rate so this is going to be a real difficult sticking block and also, the notion is that a lot of people, their taxes are going to go up bottom line. >> yeah, look we've got the goal post moving from 15 to 20 and now maybe for the year delay a delayed corporate tax cut is nothing other than risk for recession. if i have the option of opening up a factory in 2018 at 35% or waiting until 2019 at 20% i'm going to put it off for a year which means i'm not hiring next
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year, not building, not buying materials and it's a recipe for recession in 2018 which will be a disaster for the republicans. that corporate tax has to come now ideally retroactively not a year from now. >> charles: we've gone from dreams of retroactive it to now being pushed out. unbelievable. and we talk about the multiplier effect that's a hundred million dollars they save with this, but when you talk about corporations and higher wages and employment and an investment it's really a lot more than that with respect to main street. also, the seven tax brackets from the senate, i just you've got the republican party fighting itself. it's like a war against itself here. how does it all play out particularly when they've given themselves such a short timeline >> right, i mean what else is now with the republicans. you've seen this over and over again with healthcare. you felt they had it and of course they did not and this was supposed to be much easier lift for them with tax reform, but again, this is a negotiating process, we always knew a senate bill was coming.
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>> charles: i know, but you know the negotiating was with themselves right? >> right. >> charles: they keep talking about democrats. first of all if you get rid of salt, state and local tax deductions, zero democrats are coming on board bottom line. i doubt anyone would come on board no matter what even if chuck schumer wrote the bill himself but that being said, why the negotiating so hard among themselves? >> elizabeth: that's a perfect question. ey honestly don't know really howoovern in a majorit 've seen them dhis time and time aga, and honestl the need to g their act together especily on the corporate rate of what we were you push that back for another year, nobody, the economy isn't going to boom and they need the economy to boom if they want to salvage the midterms to 2018. >> charles: that was the center piece of the plan. >> if i could just jump in here, i think that the republicans have got to get this done because they've been promising it and they haven't achieved anything yet but they also have to get it done because they have
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to have the economy going well by the time the midterms come along and this was something that paul ryan was acknowledging yesterday at a washington examiner event where we asked him how does the tax bill, how do you have thoughts about the tax bill change in the light of the elections on tuesday, where the republicans got hammered and one of the points that he made is it means it's much more urgent now. it's much more pressing to get the economy going so that at least you're lifting all votes by the time people go to the polls. >> charles: right. >> well look one thing i find amazing is the republicans are engaging class warfare having this bubble tax at 45.6% and so on, it's the wrong thing to do number one. number two if this were the price to gain democrat votes that would be one thing but what's happening is they are engaging in left wing class warfare and yet the democrats attack them anyway. >> charles: but they're going to be three or four republican senators that won't back this for reasons that have nothing to do with economics or politics, so at the have to figure out a
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way to do some of these democrat s particularly those in red states, is it that much forward thinking or is this just in competence? >> i think it's in competence. if they said all right look we'll do xyz and that gets us clair mccaskill, i see them again engaging in class warfare and sticking it to the red and i don't see the democrats moving towards them and alienating supply ciders and people believe in reducing taxes. >> charles: we saw this whole tu rf war the fingerpointing between house republicans and senate republicans and earlier in the week i forgot which guest but it was a republican from the house saying it's our job to write this bill. you know? in other words sort of saying senate back off let us get the job done and here we are the senate rolling out their plan as the house is still marking up there's. >> right, really, undercuts the house that hasn't even passed their bill yet, and if people, you'll have a lot of moderate republicans worried about the standard state and local deduction, when the senate
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completely gets rid of it and why would they vote for their own bill that they compromised on already if the senate is just going to throw it out but i think that point is exactly right. the democrats are going to hammer republicans know matter what they put out there so they should have gone bigger and bolder and lowered the rates for everybody. we've been hearing for years that we need trickle down economics, right? the rich, everybody should have a tax cut, but they've just like you said, it's class warfare and they fallen into that line of talking points. >> charles: and also it's not going to work guys if they allow folks with the money to spend that money, to invest that money , [laughter] it's not going to work. it's absolutely amazing thank you all very very much. coming up, we're going to continue to talk about tax reform and does it add up? i mean we're going to crunch the numbers because the republicans on top of a public relations fiasco, they got a problem too.
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>> charles: so congress pushing forward with the promise hopefully of getting tax reform done this year, but the big question now in addition to what we're talking about with the public relations fiasco is will this hit the targets? will it grow the economy? our panel joins us now to discuss the economics tim phillips americans for prosperity president, wall street journal senior video reporter. guys, so yesterday the cbo comes out, they scored worse than we thought, 1.7 trillion when you add in the interest from the deficits, and we don't know what the senate is going to be core scored but they say they saved a
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trillion dollars with salt, getting $100 billion by delaying corporate taxes and that still doesn't close the gap and in the meantime people are looking at something that shelby they weren't promised seven tax brackets. they weren't promised some of the things they're getting >> shelby: this reminds me a lot of healthcare reform because you've got the cbo score even though the republicans said in the long term this will help lower your premiums in the long term it's a beneficial thing. all anyone is looking at is the topline number in this case, the tax reform it's the $1.7 trillion, that causes a lot of worry and we're already hearing not just house republicans but senate republicans expressing a lot of concern about the deficit. you can say that growth will pay for it, but it's one of those show me the money now. >> charles: i do believe growth could pay for the majority of it if not all of it tim but it's too late for republicans to make that they tried but there hasn't been a full throw to belief. i don't feel like any of the folks involved in this really believe in supply side economics they talk really nicely about
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ronald reagan and they know his track record was phenomenal but for some reason they don't seem to have that belief you need to articulate to the american public, let us do this a certain way. don't score it the way you score this. understand money will circulate in this economy and we'll be in boom town. >> tim: there are good things in this plan. i don't think we should lose track of that. the corporate rate cut. >> charles: what if you don't get it next year? >> tim: the biggest disappointment at least to us a couple but the biggest one is that fourth individual bracket. go back to the blueprint that everyone-- >> charles: but what about seven brackets? if you don't like four you must hate seven? >> tim: at least with four you aren't grabbing the top bracket saying you don't get a tax cut. we think every american should get a tax cut charles. they need to go back to the blueprint. the good news is i'm telling you , they're going to get a deal done. their careers depend on it and they know that. they get a deal done. >> charles: so the politics of it ultimately they get a deal done but shelby that 38.5% on the screen, that's 500,000 for a
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married couple, so people are going to be getting dinged on this the very people that typically make the investments to start a business. the people that put money into markets. the people that we need to have a tax break so that everyone else can enjoy them investing. >> shelby: right and you look it is technically a cut not a great cut canned like you said it's for people who depending on where you live aren't necessarily super rich and so if you live in one of these states where urls losing your state and local deductions-- >> charles: we'll see some smart things and it's not economics, the adoption rule i think the senate, the house got that wrong , extra ordinary medical expenses i think the house got that wrong. and remember, president trump i think from over in china sent a clear message overnight that he liked the senate with the senate was working on because remember he called the house obamacare repeal bill mean so it's got to have some feeling too. it's not just all cut and dry,
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number crunching. people got to know that this government cares about me. >> tim: i actually think the president on this issue is a good sales person. he goes out there and he can set corporate rate cut that brings jobs home and get folks especially blue collar folks in places like ohio and michigan good jobs again. he's a good sales person on this issue. >> i agree and it's because he knows this issue. he does understand how much business is need. >> charles: can anyone sell the democrats their 73 democrats in high tax states and we saw a lot vote against the budget as a protest vote, can anyone do your political career by voting for this? >> shelby: it's not looking like it yet and they've stuck together and voted against the republicans all year. >> charles: i do think they should be held accountable for the fact they're protecting wealthy folks in blue states that are getting an unfair break on these state because all three of us know the vast majority of that money from state and local deduction goes to rich people in these blue states so let's hold them accountable.
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>> charles: but they aren't rich people are they? this is a new republican party. >> tim: let's make the code fair. let's make it fair. >> shelby: that's a good question what is fair? >> tim: subsize new jersey andew york. charles: i'm already resigned to the fact that st is out. and the bottomine is they've got to make up this money somewhere. >> shelby: you think salt is not happening? >> charles: salt is out if you get those deductions it's the last time you'll have them at least for the next eight years. thank you very much really appreciate it. >> thanks. >> charles: so while the gop fumbles over taxes on capitol hill president trump is going touchdowns in china try $250 billion worth of touchdowns we've got those details for you coming right up. it's easy to think that all money managers are pretty much the same. but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does.
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affordable, fast fedex ground. >> charles: president trump is making major head ways since trump's arrival earlier yesterday between the $250 billion worth of deals that
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they've agreed to and work to suppress north korea's nuclear threat this is trump's first trip to asia and so far it's a big win under his belt. joining me to discuss senior research fellow and riley walter s, heritage foundation, agent study centers research association. let me start with you, because the list of american companies involved in these deals are of course a who's who from boeing, general electric, goldman sachs, air products, honeywell, dow, caterpillar, you know, i know some of these obviously were in the pipeline already but $250 billion is a pretty good number. >> you're right it is pretty significant, obviously, the hopes and dreams of the administration was to sort of meet or match or even go higher than the trade deficit which they've been so focused on, but all in all, i mean i think so far from president trump's trip to china, he's certainly getting the takeaways he would like to
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see. >> charles: now, i'm sorry daniel, some critics are saying well it's a lot of pomp and circumstance, a lot of parades, music, and that this is more or less a charmed offense ever by china taking away from some of the harder edge conversations that they are uncomfortable with right now. do you see it that way? >> i think there's some truth to that. $250 billion is a lot of money. i think this is a takeaway for the president. it's a little more showmanship, maybe than hard substance. as you said a lot of these deals were in the works. it's non-binding. it's spread out over 20 years, hundred billion of that is direct investment in the united states which is good but that's a hundred billion that's not buying u.s. exports, so this deal, whatever amount is truly there, is going to have no impact on our bilateral deficit with china which i think the president is exaggerating the
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impact of that anyway. the deficit stabilized imports from china are only growing 2% a year. >> charles: but what's the number throw, 360 or something an outrageous number. it would be nice to stabilize that at a much lower number wouldn't it? >> that's misleading though. a lot of the products that come in from china have a lot of value-added from other countries and by the way americans get a lot of tens of millions of americans get a lot of benefit out of those goods from china. >> charles: there's no doubt, listen i understand trade and you know what if someone sells me a cheap plastic item and i give them money for it i've got the cheap plastic item and they got my cash. that's what trade is all about but there are some, riley underlying unfairness about this because i can't sell my cheap plastic stuff in china. you know? we can't sell great stuff in china. they've got barriers and tariffs you've got local officials, i mean we do have a very unfair trading relationship with china and president trump is the first president i remember in a long time to truly call them out on
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it. >> riley: oh, yeah, that is true, but i mean, even the president has recognized that this isn't necessarily china's fault. >> charles: i know, listen president trump praised him and said you took advantage of america, you took advantage of weeklings. you looked out for your own self -interest but the game stops now. >> he's recognized there are macroeconomic factors that fall into what increases our trade deficit. you're right, there are barriers to market access for china and of course, there are the issues of intellectual property which i believe both he is picking up more as an important topic to address with dealing with china. >> charles: i agree. i mean that is a huge huge problem. gentlemen thank you both very much really appreciate it. >> thank you. >> charles: democratic election victories this year, retiring republicans by the way, that line is getting longer and longer and then there is this tax reform if they flub this all of these things could mean
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>> charles: breaking news tonight, republican senate candidate roy moore is denying a report in the washington post that he initiated sexual contact with a 14 year old girl when he was 32 years old. the post reports that three more women claim that moore pursued
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them when they were teenagers and he was in his 30s. the question tonight is how will this along with a host of the democratic victories, this earlier this week, the flubs we're seeing with tax reform how will this impact the 2018 midterms. my panel joins me now shelby holiday is back along with steve cortez. he also serves as the hispanic 100 spokesman, media managing editor and steve cortez you're very close to the administration what do you make of it all because so far not a good week for the republican party. >> steve: well charles, i would say not a good week but not a bad week. i'd pushback a bit. these were two blue states and new jersey was a foregone conclusion. virginia perhaps was in play, i never really thought it was but when you look at ed gillespie he is really the definition in my mind a swamp creature of an establishment republican. he maybe ran a little trump-ian
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at the very end but he never ran on a trump agenda. >> charles: i appreciate the bold face you're putting on this but doesn't this remind you of post-election commentary from democrats? i mean, if you if you have an opportunity as a party to be honest with yourselves in time for the midterm elections, you say we didn't give obamacare through, we're having trouble with tax reform and now, a candidate in alabama may be in trouble. >> now on that score charles yes and listen you're right to pushback there. when it comes to what's going on in capitol hill i think it's a disgrace and i mean that. i think the american people gave the keys to the kingdom to the republican party. house, senate, white house. what have we gotten done on the hill but i as a trump partisan put the lions share almost all of the blame on the house and senate particularly senate republicans who i think are a bunch of squishes who don't realize what happened in 2016, the electoral revote of the ballot box so i will agree with you there. we are behind the a ball.
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and we need to get this done. well fine then retire, be gone, because do you know what a lot of established republicans are every bit as bad and as complicit as democrats in the capitalist system in washington d.c. and for so long for its own benefit to the detriment. >> charles: well the establishment is the establish establishment right on both sides of the aisle katie and as far as these folks retiring does say something of you can't beat a committee chairman you can no longer represent the people in your state. something about that as well, but you know katie, it's time to look forward because i think look at the stock market. look at enthusiasm in america. there is this notion at least a feeling after november 8 that we were going to be in for four, perhaps eight years of really great revival of america and that could start to fade. >> katie: right and surprise welcome to congress. unfortunately it's not like running a business for president trump. he cannot necessarily control everything that the senate or
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the house does but they also can't do this drum beat of justice neil gorsuch forever. they have to get something done by 2018 or it's going to look very bad for them and be an excellent opportunity for democrats and the left to brow beat them for the fact they've controlled every aspect of the government and we're so busy squabbling with each other they could accomplish nothing that could help the american public. >> shelby: i think the democratic party has it's own issues but the problem for republicans we are seeing loud and clear here is they don't know if they should be running as trump candidates or distance themselves from trump. you have steve bannon driving a wedge into the republican party who wants to blow the system up and this roy moore news is bad because he was a bannon candidate and everyone trying to read the at the leaves of which way to run. >> charles: mcconnell already come out and he wants him to dropout already after one report where he hasn't done any due diligence so you can see where the establishment is leaping on
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this news again to your point to go after a steve bannon candidate but isn't that-- >> it's true and we'll see what happens but this will make the entire republican party regardless of which side they're on and throw their hands up and say look what you did. there's no clear path to running as a successful republican. >> charles: i thought the path was made clear on november 8, steve cortez. i thought the american public spoke loud and clear and now is there a-- >> you were just talking about how they hadn't gotten anything done. >> charles: because as individuals, well you know, go ahead, steve. >> steve: the idea we've got nothing done is ridiculous. again i said and i will concede. we are behind the 8 ball. we have to pull this rabbit out of the hat meaning tax reform but gotten nothing done. the economy and i don't mean just the stock market, gorsuch is on the court, the border is largely under control. these are massive macro accomplishments not even a year into the term so things have gotten done but you're right, more needs to be done and you're also right and we shouldn't be
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surprised. what happened last november a year and a day ago was a shift. we shouldn't expect that the washington establishment both republican and democrat would die easily. its proven my favorite steven se gal movie, hard to kill. the beast in washington the swamp. it's hard to kill. we are going to kill it. steve bannon, donald trump, people like me we're going to kill this beast. it's not easy. >> charles: i never had a favorite steven segal movie but let me come back to you on this because i think the trump-ian republican party is what the america wanted and reflected in a major upset that was pulled off a year ago and those who are fighting against it, i think do so at their own pair ill and let's face it ed gillespie was not running as a trump candidate until well in the election when he was down in the polls and tried to shift gears, it was inauthentic and the public knew it. >> they did of course and i'd say in terms of virginia and new
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jersey those that don't discount the major issues that democrats have in their own party. it doesn't cover it up or fix anything so yes, while republicans are having trouble getting some major things done like tax reform and obamacare repeal, democrats have a lot of issues on their end that they seem to not be making a whole lot of progress in fixing themselves. >> charles: nancy nancy pelosi may be the gop's best secret weapon. guys thank you very much. i guess i'll watch steven segal over the weekend. coming up stocks retreating from record highs this adds tax confusion and other things. i'm going to go through them all for you we'll be right back. six in the morning. she thought it was a fire. it was worse. a sinkhole opened up under our museum. eight priceless corvettes had plunged into it. chubb was there within hours. they helped make sure it was safe.
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>> charles: well the stock market took the news of delaying taxes initially pretty hard. the reaction of course at one point the dow jones industrial average had a 253 point decline, the selling more a reaction i think to confusion in a sense that the gop could be on the verge of blowing it yet again. i will say that these sort of market reactions to news out of washington d.c. not just knee jerk, but they also serve as warnings to lawmakers to get your act together.
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i mean ultimately wall street can live with the corporate tax cut coming a year later, if it's confirmed they know that's really going to happen but main street i don't think will beanerily as happy as is prop us ed you've got potentially seven tax brackets no state and local deductions and the market, well it's going to have to probably from here on out watch the saga hoping the republicans get their act together and hoping to get back to focusing on the improving economy and improving confidence because underlying fundamentals to steve cortez's point have been spot on today's session swift. a lot of profit-taking by the way especially with the big time tech names, google and big financials down on pressure as well like goldman sachs and what was really interesting a lot of cash flowed into beaten down sectors like retail stocks, brick-and-mortar stocks believe it or not. macy's was big offered pretty reassuring guidance after reporting but then there was kohl's which had a more impressive session if you
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consider the stock dived on their earnings release it was a complete disaster nevertheless you see those turnaround and close higher. yesterday remember consumer staples led the way, today brick-and-mortar stores but we know this kind of rotation while it underscores a challenge for the rally beyond these shenanigans because this market needs true leadership and not the big tech names because they look like they may pause and pullback a little bit, what happens? remember earlier this year when there was a shift into bank stocks? but the problem of course is that banks moved away from their core business a long time ago. we're talking about just lending and now they live and die by trading activity which is ridiculous. another red flag for today's session is breadth. now it can be measured in winner s to losers, up to down volume and then there are milestones. on that note this is the first session i can remember in a long time where there were more 52 week losers than winners. on the new york stock exchange, 73 stocks close at new highs but 91 hit new 52 week lows same
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thing on nasdac 73 new 52 week highs overshadowed by 79 new 52 week losers stocks are getting hammered speaking of which after the close, disney posted a earnings miss in a revenue miss, stock initially moving lower on that news they may talk their way up we'll see where it goes from here. news corp. posted results that beat the street and in fact every business segment enjoyed revenue and ebitda increases, management voicing extreme optimism about its premium media businesses, now and they cite profound changes agreed to by google in the way they rank news content after almost a decade of campaigning by news corp. and nv idia has been a monster crushed it on revenue, earnings $0.26 beat on the bottom line and they gave consensus well above wall street and management really feeling pretty good now the initial move on this stock was lower but i wouldn't be surprised to see it get higher and this gets back to the premise about tech. tech could be facing a period of consolidation and pullbacks and nvidia is up 93% for the year,
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1200% since started in 2014 so these small pullbacks are no big deal but bottom line is when stocks with improving fundamentals start to pullback i take notice. let's not panic folks in fact on the contrary that's when you start to get your list together. by the way a lot of you guys went for the chasing breakouts reported you didn't get a chance to get it now go to wstreet.com and don't panic yet. there is breaking news president trump just now tweeting i don't blame china, i blame the in competence of past administrations for allowing china to take advantage of the u.s. on trade lending, leading up to the point where the u.s. is losing hundreds of billions. how can you blame china for taking advantage of people that are no clue? i would have done the same. coming up, the department of justice is getting back to well paying back a lot of bernie sanders victims, but in the process, they're justifying civil forfeitures and taking away money from small individuals and that's got a lot
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of libertarians worry. we're going to debate that when we come back. it's easy to think that all money managers are pretty much the same. but while some push high commission investment products, fisher investments avoids them. some advisers have hidden and layered fees. fisher investments never does. and while some advisers are happy to earn commissions from you whether you do well or not, fisher investments fees are structured so we do better when you do better. maybe that's why most of our clients come from
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other money managers. fisher investments. clearly better money management. retail. under pressure like never before. and it's connected technology that's moving companies forward fast. e-commerce. real time inventory. virtual changing rooms. that's why retailers rely on comcast business to deliver consistent network speed across multiple locations. every corporate office, warehouse and store near or far covered. leaving every competitor, threat and challenge outmaneuvered. comcast business outmaneuver.
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>> charles: the department of justice today announcing that they will be returning $773 million of victims of bernie madoff, the first installment of which eventually will be over $4 billion given back. now this money has been recovered from third parties using civil asset for feature. this is a bipartisan group of senators now pushing to defund attorney general sessions plan to actually expand the program. here to discuss gary cohen, and doug berns. let me start with you this is a contentious debate here. a lot of libertarians and a lot of other folks just saying small time people who are
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unfortunately have something of valet car, a home, anything else really get it back even when they're found innocent of potential crime. >> that's correct, charles, and you know, you mentioned libertarians but a lot of conservatives such as myself have massive massive problems with the process as well. what the process does is it simply does not observe constitutional due process. you know, the article in the wall street journal today mentioned that this has judicial oversight when the truth is 81% of these are administrative for features meaning they don't see a judge at all. >> charles: so doug, here is the thing. the article of course that derek referred to you wonder if they're going on the offensive folks who want to see this program expanded because there is a lot of public pushback on this right now. >> well there's no question and i think that putting it into the context of the madoff case obviously, you know is oh, who could be against the idea of mad off, victims getting back their money and we understand that but my colleagues right.
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i've been in federal criminal law for 30 years myself and sat across the desk from federal prosecutors who say we believe every cent he made should be forfeited and they're often too aggressive so there are problems >> charles: but a lot of sympathy but a lot of times people who are eventually exonerated never get their stuff back. >> you read my mind. i thought where you were going charles is when somebody is a criminal that's fine but very often what happens is it's like the proverbial commercial fishing that goes too wide and you end up not only with the criminal but somebody and my colleagues are the point let me amplify real quick is sometimes you get behind the 8 ball people don't have resources to fight it and it becomes difficult. >> charles: derek one of the complications for conservatives especially is that some police departments actually need this money and it's actually a revenue source and it keeps them with the most recent manpower and it actually is something critical for them and we don't want to takeaway resources from our police departments.
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>> certainly and i couldn't agree with you more. the important thing to remember is that police is a core government function, must be substantially funded. it must be funded to the level to achieve their mission. the problem is with civil for feature does is it gains that addiction to that income source. when that income source might dry up immediately, it's a dynamic source of funding that goes for routine operating expenses. it should be funded to the general propages process and not simply through this catch process civil for feature brings >> charles: a lot of states small towns have tight budgets, pension problems whether they're addicted or not they actually do need it so it goes with the justice speed trap and again, it's a delicate fine line and i find it intriguing situation because it does hit a lot of ordinary americans i think on one hand the extraordinarily unfair but we need to find a way to make sure that the victims like the bernie madoff are
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getting money back. >> it's like when you read books and study economics it's incentives and then what happens so first blush police departments need good budgets and the reality is sometimes they get overaggressive because they want to fund that budget and there's good and bad in for feature but when they're overly aggressive it could be a problem >> charles: gentlemen thank you both very much. president trump just tweeting again, my meetings with the president were very productive on both trade and the subject of north korea. he is a highly-respected and powerful representative of his people. it was great being with him and madam peng liyuan. coming up president trump and china joining forces to end the opioid crisis here in america, it's the biggest drug crisis in the history of america. we'll be right back. when i received the diagnosis, i knew,
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xi and i discussed ways to counter the deadly drug trade and stop the lethal flow of poisonous drugs into our countries and into our communities. charles: president trump earlier today on the opioid crisis. madison, an impressive report put out by senator mike lee. it gets to the heart of the matter. not only is it the worst drug epidemic in america. but it's been hitting singles and divorced men hard. how much more has to be done? >> we haven't even hit the surface. my home state of ohio has been affected by this deeply.
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we all know someone who has had a brother, mother, sister or friend. this drug fentanyl is 50 times more powerful than heroin. the d.o.j. and dea says federal prosecutors can prosecute people selling fentanyl. they are killing people all across this country. charles: china has 30,000 businesses involved in this fentanyl trade and they are unregulated. you can't build a wall to stop this kind of thing. >> i think the president deserves a lot of credit for what he's doing in this issue. he mobilized the government, and
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he's taking emergency measures to stop the flow of fentanyl-type drugs into the united states. he deserves a lot of praise. i'm optimistic. this president has a way of getting what he wants. i think he's showing real leadership on this issue and deserves a lot of credit. charles: we talk about the numbers, dollars and cents. but i think this an example of the he athletes forgetting about the middle of the country. >> we obviously need to continue to do more to put an end to this. this is affecting a lot of families in middle america and us. let's continue to work together to put an end to this.
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charles: you think back to the crack epidemic. the six and 70s. it's never been this bad. thank you for watching. here is lou dobbs. [♪] lou: good evening, breaking tonight, republicans making progress in their quest for tax reform. senate republicans unveil their tax plan as the house ways and means committee advance their tax legislation. the two measures, however, appear far apart. the house ways and means committee, its chairman kevin brady with us tonight. president trump and his counterpart pledging to work together against north korea's threats.

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