tv Greta Van Susteren FOX News June 1, 2012 10:00pm-11:00pm PDT
margin over obama and i think that is quite interesting. but i think it is going to be close. some people say a landslide. i don't believe that. >> sean: thanks for being with let not your heart be troubled. we'll be back monday. captioned by closed captioning services, inc. >> greta: tonight, tensions running high in wisconsin. the stage set for an explosive political showdown. explosive and historic. in four days a recall election that could remove a governor for the first time ever in wisconsin history. republican governor scott walker. it all started 15 months ago whistling governor walker proprosing a controversial antiunion collective bargaining law. >> corbargaining rights shouldt be taken away. >> greta: angry protesters storming the state capitol. and on the other side prowalker activists rallying for days on end. >> the cool school district in my town this is disgusting. this shouldn't happen in wisconsin.
>> greta: the wisconsin battle quickly went national. president obama and speaker boehner not sugar coating their feelings. president obama called governor walker's actions a "assault on unions" and speaker boehner praised the governor for confronting problems neglected for years at the expense of jobs and economic growth. then like something out of a movie 14 democratic state senators disappeared, fleeing the state to avoided voting in the antiunion vote. state senate business grinds to a halt but they find a way to push the antiunion bill through anyway. the hotly anticipated recall election once again pits governor scott walker against milwaukee mayor tom barrett. they ran against each other in november 2010. governor walker is not the only one, though, with a job on the line. lieutenant governor rebecca clayfish also facing a recall on june 5. >> i am the first lieutenant governor in national history to face a recall. i will be the first lieutenant governor in national history to be elected twice in my first
term. that you is that? >> up against the president of the professional firefighters of wisconsin. >> she is a rubber stamp for all of governor walker's policies. we need someone to fight for the middle class citizens of our state. >> greta: for the next hour you will go behind the scenes of the wisconsin election recall and hear from all four candidates and meet the tea partyers who have traveled far and wide to make their voices heard in this historic election. and democratic minority leader peter barka who says his side is energized. hear from karl rove on how you it will impact the presidential election and wisconsin congressman paul ryan will tell you why he thinks this is the second most important election of the year. welcome to our special "on the record the wisconsin recall." first up, craig gilbert of the "milwaukee journal sentinel" joins us. thanks for joining us. this is the first time that wisconsin had a recall for governor. >> only the third time in american history this happened.
it happened when governor walker was swept into office along with the republican legislature in the wave election of 2010 and then surprised a lot of people by announceing that he was going to curb collective bar gaining for public employees. it created a furor on the left and among labor and set off protests and now recalls. >> greta: did he say in the race that he intended to do that or did it catch everybody by surprise? when was running for governor did he say this is what he was going to do? >> he talked about concessions by unions and public employees but didn't talk about going after collective bar gaining rights and union certification the way he did. it really was a shock including to some people in his own party. >> greta: in the midst of all this to add more drama to it, a number of democratic senators decided to hit the road when there was going to be the vote on the collective bar gaining statute? >> that was the other surprise. they went to illinois. in retrospect, i think people in both parties thought it was a smart tactic because it
elevated the whole battle. could have been a two or three day battle and then foregotten but resulted in a protracted impass and raised the temperature and then you had hundreds of thousands of people protesting and that led to the recall movement and more recalls than any state has ever seen in history. >> greta: a lot of enthusiasm. a ton of enthusiasm. i mean i was out there and saw people teaing over the state capitol and we see the videotape of people and it was extraordinary. who won? not talking about the recall but the collective bargaining battle? >> the governor won. he had the power to implement his agenda. he got it done. the unions have had to live with changes that not only i think create less incentive for employees to join unions because they can't really collective bargain very much but also made it harder for unions to survive. they have to recertify every year and can't deduct union
dues. still being waged in court but it was a huge setback for the unions. >> greta: are the communities better off fiscally or not? or too soon so see how this has shaken out in terms of the economic impact? >> this is at the core of the debate in the gubernatorial recall election. it is kind of early. we know a little bit and experience varied from city to city and community to community. kind of depends on what kind of state aid those places are get. depends on whether they signed contracts before the collective bargaining rules were changed or not. but this is really the nub of the issue is the legacy that the governor you is leaving behind for schools and taxpayers. >> greta: where are the unions now. they supported the candidate from dane county in the primary, ms. falk. she didn't make it. are they out in supporting the mayor, mayor tom barrett in the race? do you see them around? >> they are not mailing it in. they are out there working. they are motivated to try to recall the governor. he is their enemy. and so they are working hard.
there has been some division at different levels within the union movement and within the democratic party over the tactics. over how to do this and whether it was the right thing to do or not. but they are working and they are fighting to try to put -- send the governor home. >> greta: is there a sense of the enthusiasm, i mean you look at protes protesters and you cl people are hot and enthusiastic and look at the numbers of the people that came out during the primary. whether it is to pick the democratic candidate or signing the recall petition. do you get the same sort of sense that the level of enthusiasm you saw a year ago by the democrats was there at the primary? >> well, you know, june 5 will answer this question for us but it is a real question. i mean we know the intensity is there on the republican side. i mean the way people turned out for scott walker in a token primary. it is a long time for democrats and for people in the union movement to keep that fire burning. i mean this has been going on for 15 months. so i think there will be heavy
turnout. i think both sides are energized but in terms of who has the energy and the turnout advantage we will find out on june 5. >> greta: during is campaign if there are a lot of signs up and people are knocking on doors you can feel sort of the energy. do you you you have that sort of heavy energy in this race or people have a little fatigue? >> some people definitely have fatigue. this has been going on for a long time. some wisconsinites will be voting six times this year. there were legislative recalls last summer. another round of four along with the gubernatorial recall. the state elections board is predicting a huge turnout almost at presidential levels. if that happens there won't be recall fatigue. >> greta: craig,ing thank. >> governor scott walker says his opponent owes him an apology. he has accused the governor of cooking books and inflating jobs numbers above the federal
estimates. the federal government has confirmed governor walker's numbers saying jobs in wisconsin grew by more than 23,000 last year. we spoke with governor walk. it is literally a 57,000 plus increase from where my opponents are claiming the numbers were last year. their numbers were based on a sample poll of 3.5% of the employers in the state and showed job loss instead. these are actual numbers taken from surveys of over 150,000 plus employers from athe state. 96% plus of all of the employers in wisconsin and that shows real data. the real numbers. they showed we gave more than 23,000 jobs last year. 33,000 since i have been elected and that is good news for everyone who cares about wisconsin's economy because we are moving forward. >> greta: i'm reading most of the information out of the "milwaukee journal sentinel" and they say it as bigger pool from which the numbers showing you had a net gain of 23,000 as opposed to the older numbers which showed a lot of of 33,000. when you ran for office and reason as recently at last week
at the republican convention in wisconsin you promised 250,000 jobs for the state of wisconsin. 23,000 is the right direction but that is not 250,000. term is not over but what do you you say about that? >> well, we promised, one, we promised not that we would create them, the people of wisconsin we would create a better environment for the people. people create jobs not the government. we said we would do it by 2015 by changing the business environment and a we have done this. you can appreciate this greta as a great fan of the green bay packers. when vince lombardi took over the year before they didn't go to the championship the first year he was the coach. they went after several years of him setting a foundation for success. we have lowered the tax burden. property taxes went down for the first time in 12 years in this state. we changed the high cost of litigation and regulation in the state. we have done things to create a better business environment. our chamber of commerce statewide did a survey two years ago and 10% of employ years thought we were heading in the right direction. now, 94% believe we are heading
in the right direction today in 2012 and 87% say they will add more jobs in 2012. the biggest single concern they have the recall. they don't want to go backwards to the days when we had double digit tax increases, billion dollars budget deficits and record job also loss. they want to take the foundation and move the state forward. >> i love a packer reference being an owner of one share of the guantanamo ba green bay pa. your opponent said today's announcement isn't about the best way to calculate job growth in wisconsin. this is about scott walker pulling political stunts to save his own job. i guess he doesn't agree with you. >> this is a desperate statement from a desperate campaign. when they said our reforms wouldn't work we saved more than a billion dollars for the taxpayers. her they said we he couldn't lower property taxes we lowered 12m for the first time in 1 years. we now have a $154 million
surplus and two consecutive years of putting money aside in the rainy day fund the first time ever. and now with jobs they said we didn't have a net gain in jobs in 2011. we have. a 57,000 plus job turn around and the facts are the facts. the mayor and any of his supporters can say anything they want about the process but they cannot undermine the fact that more than 150,000 employers by law are required to provide that information to the state and we in turn are required to provide it to the federal government's bureau of labor statistics. >> greta: here is what is i think is an interesting poll. one that was in the "milwaukee journal sentinel" about the intensity gap. it said 91% of republicans said they are certain to vote for you in recall. 83% of democrats say they are certain to vote. and i thought after watching all of the protests in wisconsin when they are protesting your collective bargaining and a number of people appearing in madison and taking over the capitol i'm surprised that the intensity gap between republican voters
and democratic voters is even as it is. >> well, i think part of it is recall fatigue. discerning democrats who realize this is a big waste of time and money. 16, almost $17 million out of the taxpayers pockets that could otherwise be spent lowering taxes or providing relief or seniors or needy families in the state or education and instead we have seen it wasted by the folks who want to rehash the last election. we are ready to move on and move forward and i think the people who came out even in the primary when i largely had essentially a noncompetitive primary our numbers matchd that of the top two vote getters on the democrat side. i think there are a lot of people who for the last year and half sitting on the sidelines that now said i don't need a bull horn or protest sign,gy can have my voice be heard at the ballot box. my hope is they will join us at scott walker.org and get the word out between now and june 5
to win on that election just like we did in november of 2010. >> greta: has the recall process changed you in any way? in a sense have you sort of decided to be more conciliatory on different issues? any way you are responding to this in any way? >> no doubt about it. i wouldn't change the product. what i did was right and we have seen ultimately the results have been positive for the hard working taxpayers of the state but i think it is also important to make sure you have got a good process and if i had it to do over again i would probably spend more time building the foundation for support. if i told voters, taxpayers last year that most school districts in our state had to buy their health insurance before our reforms without being able to bid it out and instead because of that had to literally cost them tens of millions of dollars our reforms have changed that. they are now the now putting more money in the classroom and making the savings by bidding out health insurance. most would have said yeah, governor, you need to do that. i tried to fix it and then
talked about it. most politicians talk about it but never fix it. i understand process wise you need to talk about it and fix it to orgeat the two done together. >> greta: wisconsin voters are not the only ones closely watching the recall results. the eyes of the entire nation will be on the badger state. griff jenkins spoke with governor walker about that. >> what are the implications about what happens here with regards to the national election in november? >> i think they are big. wisconsin is very much like america. not just in the past year and a half. go back to 2000-2004. we were the closest blue state in america. almost evenly divided for years almost evenly divided between republican and democratic voters in the state. we have urban and suburban area and rural parts of our state as well. i think what you see, though, is a question of people who won like i did in 21s 2010 win by having a broad based message that is optimistic and about
overwhelmingly empowering the middle class in the state, the small business owners and other os who really put people to work putting them back in charge again and that is the difference you see at the national level. is success in government ultimately about how many people you can get signed up for government assistance? or is it just the opposite. is success designed by how many people you get off of unemployment and free from being dependent on the government because they have successful jobs in the private sector. i want to be the latter. a state and country where success is measured by how many people control their own destiny instead of relying on government. >> reporter: what are the chances that, wisconsin, becomes a battleground state? do you see wisconsin being? >> we got close in 200 and 2004. only a couple thousand were the difference between the two presidential candidates. months ago a lot of people had writ ten off because of the recall. because of the focus not just on personality but more so on
policy and substance. the state is now a tossup. i think after the recall elections people going to look closely at each of the candidates for president and say who is the person who is going to stand up for the hard working taxpayers. >> greta: the wisconsin recall election is a rematch. milwaukee mayor tom barrett taking on governor scott walker. back in november 2010 walker defeat the barrett by 5 percentage points in the race. griff jenkins spoke with mayor barrett. >> what is your strategy between now and june 5 to turn it around in your favor and win this fight? >> we know this is is an unusual election. i don't know that there is any modeling that has been done that is going reflect how unusual the election is. i don't think anybody knows who is going to congresswoman out and vote. we think the race is going to be tight. if this comes down to who can raise more out-of-state dollars scott walker is going to win. he has raised tens of millions of dollars from out-of-state donors but that in and of itself raises questions. what he has done is become the
rock star of the far right and traveled this country and he has been the tea party favorite and it allowed him to bring in tens of millions of dollars. i'm not going to be the rock star of the far right. frankly i'm not going to be the rock star of the far left. i'm going to be rock solid and focus on what this state needs, a governor who works to create jobs. >> greta: it isn't just the governor's job on the line. so is the lieutenant governor's job. how does she plan to survive the heated race. you will hear from lieutenant governor clayfish and her opponent firefighter mitchell. plus, will the tea party pack a punch on election night? we will talk to tea party leaders in wisconsin. and everyone is talking about it. the recall result that could set the stage for november. karl rove is here to tell you why you should care about wisconsin no matter where you live.
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battle. >> greta: do you you 100% agree with governor walker on every issue? >> oh, on every issue? probably not. but don't think for a second that we discussed every issue under the sun. in most cases we do agree. that is part of the importance of having a good relationship between the governor and lieutenant governor. why our legislature in wisconsin decided you should elect the governor and lieutenant governor together as a ticket which is how we were elected to a four year term back in fall of 2010. as you know, our government accountability board and attorney general ruled that we are being recalled separately. the voters have a choice of forward or backwarded in both cases not just in the governor's race but also in the lieutenant governor's race. >> greta: in theory although it seems impact what is going to happen you could be reelected on june 5 and governor walker could lose and you could be the lieutenant governor to mayor
barrett, a democrat as being governor. i suspect that you are going to win or lose together but that is the way it is developed that could theoretically happen. >> i suppose it could. i haven't spent any time thinking about it because i don't think it is going to happen. i think we are going to wake up on june 6 and i think governor scott walker is going to continue to be the head of the eck eastboundtive branch in the state of wisconsin. >> greta: your opponent mr. mitchell says that you are simply a rubber stamp of the governor. i suppose you have a response. what is your response? >> well, i don't know that we need to even spend much time on it to be frank with you. i think when you have a good partnership a good team in the executive branch you want the governor and lieutenant governor who are working well, together. i want a governor who entrusts me with be big responsibilitie. you know that jobs and the economy, creating jobs in the state and then making sure that we have a trained workforce in order to take those jobs are the two biggest priorities that we have not just in this
administration but you also among taxpayers and job creators among the hard working families that we listen to every single day. and that is where i spend my time. the governor has appointed me his jobs ambassador. so i travel the state meeting with small business owners and asking them how we can best help them to create jobs. how we can be their partners in job creation. how we can work together on it. but i also spend my time developing plans in order to connect more job seekers to jobs and assuring that our job seekers have the skills they need for these employers to hire them. >> now, governor walker said with some reflex that he wished that in going back be looking at the collective bargaining spat, fight, whatever is that he wishd that he had communicated more to the people and he is sort of self-reflect eastbound on that. looking back i realize you weren't really in the fire on this one but it was the governor. do you have any thoughts now that you had a chance to look at the first part of the term?
any thoughts how you might have done things a little differently? >> i think governor walker has an eye to the correct answer here greta. you and i spent a lot of time talking and i spent time talking to a lot of folks last year about what was going on in wisconsin. why were we having the protests in wisconsin. it was because we passed really big reforms that not only addressed the problems of the past but also the problems of the future. when we came into office we were facing a $3.6 billion budget deficit coming at us from the past. you look into the future and you saw the cost drivers of pensions and also the rise in costs of healthcare. we had it coming at au at us fm both ways. we wanted to make sure that we were preserving taxpayers desire to do a budget without raising taxes. that is what we did. could we have sold the case longer and made sure that people understood that there was a need not just a want for
this but a need for this? yes, absolutely. i think the governor is dead on in describing it like that. >> greta: coming up, lieutenant governor kleefisch's opponent says safety at stake. also, wisconsin congressman paul ryan says courage is on the ballot in his state. what dos he mean by that? congressman rean will tell you, coming up. i have three daughters and my son, and then i have eleven grandkids. right when you see them, they're yours, it's like, ah, it's part of me. it's me again. now that i'm retiring they all have plans for me. i'm excited.
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>> greta: lieutenant governor rebecca kleefisch going head to head with the union leader in the wisconsin recall race. the president of the professional firefighters of wisconsin. we spoke with the democratic challenger about the issue at the heart of the recall battle, collective bargaining. >> it is about safety and working conditions. for for instance me being a firefighter we don't just talk about wages and hours we talk about how to be safe as a firefighter. the gear that we wear as firefighters. the fire trucks that we ride on to protect and serve our community. another thing is if you look at some employee protections for an instance. teachers in west alice, illinois, for west allis wisconsin, women, that have to wear now that collective bargaining is gone they have to wear dresses below the knee and high heels. it is not just about hours and wages.
it is about working conditions and also is public safety. >> greta: i understand the big picture with what collective bargaining does. the question was a little more directed and you talk about safety and firefighters. as i understand it correct me if i'm wrong the new provision in the collective bargaining exempted firefighters and police officers so we are talking about other public workers is that right, sir? >> we are exempt from act 10 in its current form but we are hit by state aid. i was in ba loit, wisconsin, just yesterday. they had to lay off five firefighters because of cut in state aid to that municipality. it does affect us and the cuts that scott walker is mountaining in place does affect fire and police and in turn affects public safety. >> greta: when governor walker took office he had a $3.6 billion budget deficit he had to deal with and by the constitution or by law in the state of wisconsin the governor has to submit a balanced budget. the legislature has to balance the budget. if this were a year ago and you were the lieutenant governor
working with a democratic governor what would you have done differently to bridge that gap? >> first what i wouldn't do is give tax breaks to corporations in january. we estimated over the next ten years $2.3 billion of massive tax cuts to corporations. what i wouldn't have done is balanced the tax -- the budget on the backs of hard working citizens of our state. he gaves tax breaks in january but then come february has to balance the budget on the backs of middle class citizens on our education and our kids and middle class citizens. teachers. nurses. firefighters. janitors. snowplow drivers. we need a budget with true shared sacrifice. right now it seems like we sacrifice and they share the wealth. >> greta: i take it that the purpose of the tack breaks, i haven't seen them. that was i assume to attract business to the state and focus on jobs. is that what the purpose is? >> we he need, yes. and we need tax -- we need corporations in our state. we need industry in our state.
we need businesses in our state. but we need true shared sacrifice. and tax break, fine. but tax breaks without any accountability to create jobs is where we have a problem. you have to give back to the community in order to get a tax break and that is what we are not seeing. we are seeing tax breaks with no accountability. >> greta: do you have any idea sort of what the cost savings has been with the collective bar againing? i'm not taking a side on this. i'm just trying to understand what the number is. has governor walker put out a number of how much money he has recouped or recovered or somehow refined from this? >> i have not seen those numbers, greta. but remember last year when you talk about cost savings, when you talk about collective bargaining and cost savings. it is not just about costs. it is about hours and working conditions and public safety. if you remember last year the unions that were being affected by act 10 conceded to the concessions of the healthcare and also the pensions. but he had to go further and do a power grab and there was no
doubt in my mind when talked about divide and conquer are in a video that surfaced two weeks ago that is what he was trying to do last year. divide the conquer the state. in his own words he said he wanted to drop the bomb on the state. this is about governor walker treeing to take over the state and divide and conquer the state for years to come. >> greta: would you like president obama to come into wisconsin and campaign with you because he took the state by 12 or 14 points in 2008. would he be helpful. >> i believe he would we helpful but the president has a huge busy agenda. we right now -- the voters out here. >> greta: he is doing some campaigning. he is doing campaigning for himself and some fund raising. would he help you? >> i think he would. i love protesters president obama. obama. president we are looking at working with people in the state and getting the message out to all 72 counties. that is what we are focused on right now. >> greta: coming up the tea
party says it is not going away but the recall effort will put its power to the test. what are tea party leaders doing to influence the wisconsin election? they will tell you next. and what could be a game changer in this very tight race? wisconsin's assembly minority leader answers that question. you have to hear what he says, coming up. [ male announcer ] today a mom will see her doctor. a dad will get a screening. ♪ a little one will get a vaccine. and a teen will talk with the doc. ♪ right now, millions of americans are using their preventive benefits from the health care law. you can, too. not just because there may be no insurance copays or out-of-pocket costs. but because of all those tomorrows you want to see.
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truck driver and another passerby caught up with the stroller as the baby hit the curb. the baby was all smiles and was reunited with its mother moments later. now back to "on the record." for all of your latest headlines, go to foxnews.com. you are watching the most powerful name in news, fox newschannel. on to fox news .com. >> greta: the wisconsin recall election a real scorcher. governor scott walker and lieutenant governor rebecca kleefisch both fighting to keep their jobs. will the tea party pack a punch in the dairy state? griff jenkins hit the ground to find out? >> we are encouraging people to go and vote and make sure that we end the recall ares and protect our representative democracy. >> what is at stake here? this has turned into a national
story. when we, of course, saw the protests and chanting in the capitol last january. >> right. >> you guys were there. >> we were here with our tea party groups who are in wisconsin and we watched what happened as the unions and liberal groups started marching around the capitol. >> suggested that the tea party movement isn't quite as strong as it was in 2010 when there was healthcare. what is going on with you guys? >> clearly that is wrong. we had the 990 that came out recently and showd that we raised over 12 million north dakota the last fiscal year. we have hundreds of people who will be here in wisconsin from around the country and then people who are calling doing virtual phone banking. we haven't gone away. we have just gotten more sophisticated and smarter. >> what are you guys doing? >> we are going door to door knocking on doors. the absolute best way to talk to voters and get your message out is face to face contact. >> when you are talking to folks here what is the
sentiment? because when the democratic senators here left the state it reached a bit of a fever pitch. >> right. >> and we did see the protesters. what are people saying now in terms of what the sentiment is on the street? >> i think that things have calmed down a little bit. they have seen that the world didn't end. changes happened and mistakes may have been made or not but what they have seen is that the budget is balanced. and that is a good thing. and more importantly, they understand that if they don't like it, they -- the next election is in really two years from now. it is not that far away. i am hopefulful that we prevail and it is really not about walker. just about when you have elections they have consequences and if you don't like it then wait until the following real election not the special recall. >> how significant is this election this, this recall election to your national goal which is obviously november? >> i think it is very important. it is going to set the stage
and momentum from here into november. >> what is the number one issue with the wisconsin tea party groups that you guys are again the umbrella that you are nationwide that wisconsin tea parties what do they face -- focusing on other than obviously the recall election? >> they will get through this. they have been in campaign mode for the last two and a half years. hopefully this will end all of the recalls in the state. and then they will be focused on what happens in the general election and going forward. >> let's talk about who is your opponent in this? >> as far as the primary opponent goes i think that is really is the special interests on the left. the unions. the move on. the occupy movement. those are the opponents in this election by and large. >> and so let me ask you. should the polls shift, should things change and barrett wins how would that impact you in what you are trying to do? >> if that happens then i think that we are going to see that
the left will definitely be enenergiesed. they will be excited going into the next few months leading into the national conventions and the election. but it is not going to stop us. we going to keep working no matter what. we have a country to save and we will start with wisconsin, save wisconsin and go on and save the country. >> greta: will republican governor scott walker survive the recall election? some democrats worry that he will. and not just wisconsin democrats. griff jenkins spoke with wisconsin assembly minority leader peter barka. >> this promises to be a close election and we had some close ones in wisconsin with senator gore and senator kerry winning by narrow margins. of course, president obama won by a big margin but this could be one of the closer races in wisconsin history. >> even some democrats it would appear seem to be losing a little bit of their interest in the recall fight. how do you see it? >> people are still very energized. and i think you going to see a huge turnout. it will be very interesting.
some are predicting you could have turnouts close to presidential election levels. big interest here in wisconsin because we feel our values are at stake. we feel that wisconsin values have been totally disregarded. and we have moved in a far right wing direction that just doesn't fit this state. >> i read in the "wall street journal" that wisconsin democrats had asked the dnc for $500,000 and they didn't get it. but then i also see doing a little research that chair woman debbie wasserman schultz is coming out to do a fundraiser here before the recall. what is the story? is washington helping you guys or are you sort of on your own fighting this battle 12346789. >> washington has been helpful and they are becoming even more helpful as we close into the last couple weeks of the race. we expect that as the money has flowed a little better and there has been more interest you are going see a huge turnout. and that is what it is all about. it is all about voters who show
up at the polls. it is not about who has the richest friends and the most billionaires to give them money. >> is there a game changer are that you see coming between now and june 5 that would change this? >> well, i think by far the most important thing will be boots on the ground. people on the street. getting people active so that they actually show up at the polls. the other issue, though, is this is the first governor in the history of our state that has put together a criminal defense fund because about a dozen of the people that work for him when was tellin county executive have come under investigation and some have been indicted and some have been given immunity in exchange for testifying. if something would break that that would be a total game changer as well. wisconsin has a reputation for clean open and transparent government and the governor has trampled that represent
>> greta: whicwisconsin congren paul ryan says courage is on the ballot in the recall election. what else does is he say about the hotly contested race? here is congressman paul ryan. >> we are told that the unions and the country are going to spend something like $40 million in wisconsin between now and june 5 when the recall is. so it is going to be a massive effort, a big fight. i think scott is going to win. you know why i think scott is going to wen? because the reforms are working. >> greta: but there are almost a million signatures for recall. a lot more journalists and judges i might add. >> reporters and judges are signing the recall petitions supposedly objective people. more to the point i met with a school district superintendent of a small school district in the district i represent just the other day. because of scott walker's reforms she saved $1.6 million just in her school district and being able to put health insurance out for bid because she doesn't have to use the teacher union monopoly
insurance plan any more. saved $1.6 million. able to put reforms in the classroom that make education better because of the reforms. these walker reforms kept taxes low. they didn't require massive layoffs of teachers and other public worker. they didn't require cutting government services and helped balance the budget without raising taxes and so those reforms are working. >> greta: i guess that if i were governor walker to have the confidence you have but for the fact that the recall petition had so many signatures on it. even when i was doing reporting on it i got an e-mail from a friend of mine that teaches at the university of wisconsin and it practically took my skin off because she was so angry. >> it is very angered. i think as people learn the facts and if they learn about how the reforms are working not just at the state level but the local level i think by and large wisconsinites are going to not vote to recall. i think recall over a policy dispute i don't think is called for.
if people don't like what scott walker did which is what he said he would do while he campaigned. i think in the normal course of elections is when they should vote for are somebody else. >> outside money coming into the state for his opponent and for him, too. >> i imagine so. >> greta: interesting how this has become sort of a national election. >> i think it was said in one of the major newspapers the other day this is the most important election this year after the presidential election because i would say courage is on the ballot. legislator isor state going have the courage of address the structural problems of their state if he when they do that this is what happens to them. that is profund. scott is taking on the drivers of the debt in wisconsin just like we are taking on the drivers of our debt in washington. we will be attacked by political adversaries. not offering solutions. just more borrowing and spending. more debt. more decline. >> greta: coming up, wisconsin is expected to be a real trend setter. why is the entire nation looking to the badger state.
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>> greta: all eyes on the great state of wisconsin. recall race suspected to set a trend. why is wisconsin so important? >> i think governor walker is well positioned to win. the question is, by how much? the bigger the impact. and i think there are three impacts, first of all will be whether or not the wisconsin experiment of bringing in collective bargaining rights and having transparency and these retirement benefits and equality between public and private sector benefits that, is a big experiment. it's a motdel for the country f he survives other states will be emboldened to take up this banner of reform. the second thing is that it's
going to have a big impact on determining what kind of wisconsin there is in november. the wis of 2008? in which there is a 14-point victory by obama? or of 2000 and 2004, gore carrying the state in 2000 by 5,000 states z in 2004, john kerry carried it by less than half of a point. very competitive state. a bigger victory by walker would indicate the state is like 2000 and 2004 and worthy of being tossed into the battle ground listing. and finally it's going to have a big impact on organized labor, organized labor put a huge amount of money into the election. and it's -- last year, and this year, and we'll see how good that investment coming ups out here. >> thank you for being with us, we'll bring you latest developments leading up to the recall election, stay with us right through election night.