tv FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace FOX News June 3, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am PDT
captioned by closed captioning services, inc. >> chris: i'm chris wallace. with just five months to election day, the campaign's focus on job one, how to get america back to work. we'll hear from both sides on the rising unemployment rate and whether the recovery is stalling. ed gillespie, senior advisor to mitt romney and steven rattner, president obama's former car czar. then is, tuesday's wisconsin recall election a preview of the presidential race? we will ask our sunday panel about the possibility of traditionally blue states may flip to red in november. and our power player of the week. working to attract new generations to the father of our country. all right now on "fox news sunday."
>> chris: and hello again from fox news in washington. the economic news friday was grim. employers added the fewest jobs in a year and the stock market wiped out all of the gains it had made in 2012. how does this reshape the presidential race? we'll talk with a former advisor to president obama in a moment but first we welcome ed gillespie, is senior advisor to mitt romney and good to have you back, ed. >> good to be back. thank you. >> let's start with the jobs picture for the first two months of 2012. job growth averaged 267,000 jobs a month for the last three months it averaged 96,000 with just 69,000 jobs created in may. question, what does governor romney think is the problem? >> the problem is this administration and this president's policies are hostile to job creators and we see that on any number of fronts whether it is the excessive regulations and mandates. the mandate in the president's healthcare bill alone was
estimated to cost 850,000 jobs in the economy by the congressional budget office. look at the keystone pipeline decision which would have had an immediate impact on job creation. the proposed tax increases on job creators. this is a hostile environment for job creation in our economy and that is why frankly it adds a sense of urgency in terms of this year's election to be able to turn things around because the only thing that is going change it are changing the policies and that means changing the person in the white house. >> chris: president obama says a big part of the problem is that house republicans are blocking some of his jobs ideas he has had out there since september. ideas like giving small business a tax incentive to hire more people or more targeted spending for infrastructure and to hire more people. take a look. >> congress hasn't acted on enough of the other ideas in that bill that would make a difference and help create jobs right now. there is no excuse for that. not when so many people are still looking for work. >> chris: does governor romney
think that the house republicans should pass some of the obama jobs act and what about early action to deal with these big spending cuts and tax increases that are automatically going to be triggered at the end of the year? >> a couple of things chris. the house has you know has passed job creating legislation that the democrats in the senate have not taken up and passed and sent to the president and the president hasn't worked to get them done. the problem is not what the congress hasn't done with republicans that control the house. the problem is what congress did do when democrats controlled the house and the senate and the white house in the first few years of this presidency. the stimulus bill and the healthcare bill and dodd frank excessive regulations are part of what is stifeling our economy today. >> chris: if i may press my question. does governor romney think because forgetting the election will the fact is this economy is going to be in trouble oh over the next five months, if he is elected the next 7 or 8 months before he steps into
office. does he think that the house republican ares should pass some of the obama jobs act and what about early action to take away what is being called tax-mageddon? >> governor romney thinks we need stronger presidential leadership. you don't see president obama all he does seemingly is campaign and go to fundraisers. where is his leadership tax mageddon. i think he supports leadership which is vacant right now and that is absent and contributing to our stagnant economy. >> chris: the president says that the romney plan to fix the economy is the president bush 43 plan on steroids. where does romney differ from bush on economic policy? >> a couple of ways. one, i think there is a clear
distinction on governor romney's policy toward china for example and currency ma nip lakes. when you look at -- manipulation. governor romney budgetpy's support for entitlement reform is different in nature than governor bush's entitlement reform proposals. the most important thing is not the differences is between what governor romney would do and how president bush approaches the job. there are major differences between what governor romney would do and what president obama is doing and that is really the focus of this election and where it should be contribution those are pretty significant differences when it comes to entitlement reform and saving medicare and social security for future generation. stopping the tax increases from hitting small business owners who traditionally provide two thirds of the new jobs in our economy and are going to get hammered under president obama's proposed tax increases and repealing the healthcare bill which has job killing mandate and a job killing taxes in it as well. >> chris: specifically on taxes and spending does romney have a
different plan than george w. bush? >> he does, chris. the fact like i say unstacks and spending both what governor romney called for in terms of bringing down 20% across-the-board tax cut but offsetting that with specific elimination of tax deductions and simplifying the tax code. it is different from what president bush called for. >> chris: the obama campaign is now going after romney's record as governor of massachusetts and let's take a look at that record. here is their main charge. during the four years before romney took office the state ranked 36th in job creation. during romney's term it ranked 47. when romney took office the state had an unemployment rate lower than the national average. when romney left office the state had an unemployment rate higher than the national average. >> a couple of things. one, i don't agree with the data that you just put up there, chris. my understanding is when president obama -- sorry when governor romney took office in
massachusetts, massachusetts was ranked 50th. dead last. >> chris: in the four years -- over the four years i think you are wrong. >> and i think you are rock so we will have to arbitrate this because the bls data shows that massachusetts when governor romney took office. >> chris: you are saying for the four years it was is 50th in job creation? >> when took office it was number 50 in job creation. 51 if you count the district of columbia. >> chris: we will check the numbers. >> and when ended his term in office it was number 30. >> chris: over the four years it was 47th, no question about that. >> this is what they are doing, chris. take the first year which is a low base year when the governor came in and took office because it was 50th in job creation out of all of the states, dead last. moved it to 30th by the fourth year. a net job creation of around 40,000 jobs. and they he averaging out over the four years so they are bringing down the gains of the -- of his fourth year in office which shows the real impact of his policies and
diluting it with the first year in office when came into office and it it was 50th in job creation. he inherited a $3 billion projected deficit and turned it around without raising taxes, balanced the budget. the unemployment when took office was 5.6% and when left office it was 4.7%. the average income for a family in massachusetts went up by $5,500. we are proud to contrast that with president obama who came in and for four years in a row passed deficits of more than $1 trillion. over 500,000 lost jobs in the economy. 23 million americans either unemployed unemployed or out of the work force entirely and average wages down $4,300. >> chris: romney hit the president this week for engaging in what he said is public equity. using tax pac taxpayer money tt and tr
>> what governor romney said when was governor of massachusetts is that we should not have the state investing in private enterprise the fact is we should be reprogramming the money and he tried to reprogram the money away from those kinds of investments. >> chris: as you know we are talking in the next segment to steven rattner who was obama's former car czar. one of the biggest knocks against romney is he opposed the government bailout of gq m and chrysler. the republican governor of michigan says if you hadn't had the government bailout, there was no money coming from private investors and banks during the financial meltdown of 2008, if you hadn't had the government bailout that gm and chrysler would have gone into a long-term liquidation and been in bankruptcy for years not the quick managed bankruptcy they had with the government bailout. >> well, i remember this debate pretty vividly and the fact is there were conflicting points of view both on capitol hill
and in the white house at the time and then when president obama came in and did the essentially the managed bankruptcy that governor romney had called for. >> chris: but he hadn't called for government money. >> he had called for a managed bankruptcy that is correct but without government money. >> chris: and the point we will talk to to rattner in a bit. there was no private money so without the government money it would have gone into chapter 7 liquid 86. the head of gm says they would have gonna bankruptcy for years and had to lay off workers. >> i know there were different opinions at the time and i know that the decision was made this is the way it has to be done. governor romney's lea belief ae belief of many other people is we would have been better off through a managed private sector bankruptcy. you wouldn't have had the unions given control of the
auto companies and put in front of the line over bondholders. more of a restructuring that would have made the companies even more viable over the long-term than today. there are different opinions on that no doubt about it. governor romney's view is managed bankruptcy would have been the right way to go. no doubt there is a difference of opinion. >> chris: a couple of final questions. i was talking with a top member of the romney campaign, not you, but somebody else who said the big revealation the last couple of weeks has been that the obama campaign is not as good as you you thought it was and there have been a series of missteps whether getting into a fight with the catholic church over contraception or the president himself going so negative so early. do you you have a feeling and is there a feeling in boston we can beat these guys? >> oh, there is clearly a feeling in boston that governor romney is going to beat president obama. you know, you can go back and forth about tactics and who won the week and that kind of thing. the fact is at the end of the day, it is the candidates and
governor romney's experience and his record and his positive agenda for turning this country around i think are what is going to prevail at the end of the day. look, it is easy for political folks to look smart when things are going their way or look dumb when things aren't but it is the american people who are smart and it is the candidates who matter and their names are on the ballot and that is why we will have a change in november because of governor romney, not political tactics. >> chris: last question. finally there is a recall election as you well know in wisconsin on tuesday. if republican governor you walker wins, beats the recall, how much do you think that carries over to november and the possibility that romney could win a state that hasn't gone republican since 1984? >> well, i think this recall is about wisconsin. and about the reforms that governor walker enacted there. and i think it going to be close. i think he is going to win and the voters are going to reject
the recall. i don't know at the end of the day how much that will factor into november but it does reflect what has been a trend in wisconsin. not only was governor walker elected as a republican to the governor's mansion but republicans won control of the state house and state senate of the state house for the first time in a long time. it is moving away from liberal democratic policies and toward more reform oriented republican policies. >> chris: briefly, if walker wins what is the statement to big labor? >> i think the statement to big labe irand government worker unions is you can't be too greedy and you need to understand times are tough and the legacy costs you imposed are due for reforms and some restructuring. >> chris: we have to leave it there. thank you so much for coming in today. we will talk to to you you down the road, sir. >> thank you. >> chris: up next, the president car
>> chris: joining us now with a didn't perspective on the economy is steven rattner, president obama's lead advisor on the auto bailout who has also had a long career in investment banking and steve welcome to "fox news sunday." >> thank you for having me, chris. >> why shoddent voters hold president obama responsible for the weak job growth and sputtering recovertry that we saw this week? why shouldn't they see him as part of the problem and not the solution? >> because president obama arrived to find 700,000 jobs a month being lost in this country. we continued to lose job is for some months result of the recession that began before he got here and since air early 2010 when the job picture we began to recover readded jobs
every single month since then. nobody is happy with the rate of job creation today but i believe that without the policies that the president put in place we would not even have this level of job creation. >> chris: let's pick up on that because the president and his team said friday that it is "critical that the country continue the obama policies for economic recovery." but let's take a look at those policies. since the president took office congress has passed his $831 billion stimulus. the 2010 tax act and $123 billion extension of the payroll tax cut and unemployment compensation. the grand total of these and other bills $1.3 trillion of stimulus over a decade. steve, the result is 8.2% unemployment and 1.9% gdp growth in the first quarter and the president says more of the same? >> the problem you have with these kinds of discussions is all compared to what? what would have happened had these things not been put in
place. the stimulus program you referred to has been studied by bipartisan economists and they agree without that we would have had unemployment substantially higher than what we had the last two years. the tax cut and payroll tax cut were bipartisan. everybody wanted to extend the bush tax cuts for another two years and everybody agreed. >> chris: you said the president wanted to or was forced to as part of a deal. >> it was a bipartisan agreement as part of a package this was the right thing to do for two years while the economy was weak. >> chris: how do you explain the fact we were creating a quarter million jobs a couple of months ago and how to creating 69,000? >> something we have to see what happens. we had similar slowdowns the past two years in the spring. some economists wonder about the seasonal adjustment. but it may be something more substantial. we have to wait and see. one month's data and two months
data particularly when still creating jobs at an unsouthbound apartmentabley low rate. >> chris: how serious do you think is the threat that we are going to go into another actual recession and does the president need a new economic plan including some early action on tax-mageddon, all of the spending cuts and tax increases built in at end of the year? does he need to do something between now and november. >> so you have asked a few different questions. first with respect to whether we will two go into another recession now or not. i would say the probability is still quite low that we will go back into another recession. we are growing slowly but we are growing. remember that we have important sectors of this economy that are not positioned to contribute to our growth. government is shrinking. housing is still at a bottom. finance is not growing. this is over 40% of our economy and these sectors are not growing. the thing to worry about most in the short-term is probably europe and what might happen there.
that could tip us further downward. the president has a plan in front of congress. congress has not acted and the president has limited powers as you know. with respect to o the third question about tax magedon or the fiscal cliff it would be in the interest of everybody in the country if the congress and administration got together early on a plan. business cannot operate not knowing what its tax rate is going to be nextier or how the government is going to function next year. the lack of action with respect to all these matters on capitol hill is destructive to the economy. >> chris: do you think the president's continued bashing of wall street and the wealthy is helpful when the economy is in such trouble? >> the president made clear that private equity is a respectable business and important part of financing activities as he said about wall street. on the other hand the president also said we can't be in a situation where you have a relatively few number of people
do so well and a number of people doing so poorly. policies to help bring up the 99% who are not par tess pating. >> chris: since the president started attacking romney for his record on bain capital a number of democratic surrogates including you have defended private equity. this week the big sur row gate weighed in and defended romney's experience if not his ideas. take a look. >> there is no question in terms of getting up and going to the office and basically performing the essential functions of the office a man who has been governor and had a sterling business career crosses the qualification threshold. >> chris: i know that you think that romney made a mistake billing himself, bragging about himself as a job creator but don't decades in the private sector give you a some what greater insight into how businesses operate, how business men make decisions to hire and to it grow? >> sure. decades in the private sector
give you an insight into all of the things that you speak about but when romney turns around and attacks the president's qualifications i would say three years in the trenches fighting this economic war every single day, dealing with economic policy matters, auto rescues, bank rescues every single day tore three years actually gives you more qualifications to be president. >> chris: what is wrong with the basic romney idea and we don't have to go into the details but the basic idea cut taxes but tax reform you lower everybody's tax rate but also close some of the loopholes so it is at least rubbing you neutral, cut spending, cut regulation and basically get government out of the way and let business do its job? >> everybody agrees that we need to address our deficit. no thinking person could deny that at some point, not today because of the weak economic conditions we need to address our deficit. i notice you trying to get ed gillespie to differentiate romney from bush. romney is actually quite different from bush.
romney would cut taxes 20% across the board without specifying a single mechanism for paying for the tax cut which we can't afford. >> chris: he does say there would be mechanism. >> he has been specific about the tax cuts and completely vague will but we would pay for the tax cuts. he endorsed the budget of paul ryan. ed gillespie talks about fixing medicare is privatizing and voucherrizing medicare. dramatic cuts in medicaid and food stamps. i don't believe this is a recipe to phoenix the economy. >> chris: how specific has president obama been on reform of entitlements? >> he has not yet been specific. >> in three and a half years. >> only become a ripe issue in the last year and a half or so. >> chris: steve, please. i mean he came into office and people were walking. we have all known that social security and medicare were ticking time bombs. >> we have all known that but the republicans haven't had a plan until recently either.
>> chris: neither has the president. >> he had other things on his agenda more urgent. the stimulus act. the healthcare and dodd frank bill. all of those were important agenda items for him to deal with in his first two years in office. he recognized that entitlements is something to be dealt with. >> chris: you may not leak the romney plan but at least he has a plan on entitlements, the president does. >> if you want to say a plan that would viscerate medicare and turn into a private pro-am in which seniors pay 25% of the costs today to paying 68% of the costs is a better plan than a commitment to to something then fine you can say that. >> chris: than no plan at all. >> president obama recognizes the problems of entitlement. >> chris: the ryan plan changed and now a compromise with a democratic senator ron widen which allows people to stay in medicare. >> i don't really understand how that works because if you allow people to stay in
medicare and they say what have you accomplished? you haven't cut the medicare expenses. i think it is a little bit of a trojan horse, that plan. >> chris: this week, after spending taxpayers money. >> giving it freely to his friends. >> chris: a few days ago you said something similar. "i don't think the government should be in the business of what some people call industrial policy where picking winners or creating make work jobs and things like that. is romney right? >> as you pointed out in the last seth, massachusetts engaged in exactly the same practices. in massachusetts funded with $1.5 million by president obama. coincidentally went bankrupt on friday. solyndra is not an example of where the government can actually make mistakes
operating in the private sector. the government has a role to ply in encouraging technologies. i personally am reluck tab to see the government acting as a venture capitalist. programs like the solyndra program began in the previous bush administration and existed for a long time in the government. not some idea that president obama came to washington with and suddenly adopted for the federal government. >> chris: he certainly embraced it and especially in the case of solyndra where he went out there. >> solyndra was not a political decision. when i was in the government i watched a number of other investments made by serious people trying to do serious things but i do think it is hard for anybody to be a venture capitalist, let alone the government. >> chris: being unfair to you here because i didn't realize we only have a minute left. the former car czar you heard the discussion with ed gillespie about the auto bailout and he said that romney basically followed his advice
of a managed bankruptcy. >> there was no private capital available for the companies. no the only did president obama recognize that. president bush recognized that. the first $17 billion was put in by president bush because he and hank paulson his secretary of the treasury recognized there was no private capital. that is not a hyponet cal. that was a fact. i was there. president bush there was. it would have been government money or nothing. if it had been nothing as you said it would have been worse than what you said. the companies would have run out of money and closed their doors and liquidiated and laid off hundreds of thousands of workers. that is a fact. >> chris: we have to leave it there, steve. thank you for coming in today. good to talk to you. >> thanks for having me. >> chris: up next what happened to the obama machine of 2008? we will ask our sunday group about the president's campaign and its shaky start.
>> you can't handle this group, my friends. that is the problem. you can't handle the truth. >> chris: the obama campaign's david axel rod running into some trouble in boston this week in what was supposed to be the kickoff of a new line of attack on mitt romney's record as governor. team for the sunday group. fox news political analyst juan williams. republican strategist chip saltsman. ab stoddard of the hill newspaper and david brody of the christian broadcasting network. after 2008 the obama team had a reputation as political masterminds but so far this campaign not so much. chip, as someone who has run campaigns how are they doing at the political fundamentals of blocking and tackling? >> the first week we saw a campaign based on hope and change and then hip and cool
and now they seem hapless and confused. they started off attacking bain and that didn't work and pivoted to attacking his time as governor. the axelrod press conference was a disaster of epic proportions. month ago everybody thought obama was going to cruise and the smartest campaign and history and the smartest guys in the room. we see they have cracks in the armor and the romney campaign is going to take advantage of it the next couple of weeks. >> chris: another blunder that you may not have seen. on the day the economic bad news came out the obama cam tape decided that was a day to release the video of the editor of a fashion magazine vogue saying to people contribute to the obama campaign and you can come to a big exclusive dinner in new york that sarah jessica parker and i are hosting. take a look at this.
>> we have our own reasons for supporting president obama and we he want to hear yours. please join us but don't be late. >> chris: don't be late. h this is on the day that we find out the economy created only 69,000 jobs. first of all, do you subscribe to chip's idea that the campaign is off to a shaky how big aif so but h1n1 a deal? >> that was hilarious. it looked like the romney campaign planted dr. evil in the house of obama and said on the day the grim job numbers come out let's have someone who wreaks of ornamental excess announce that the pesants have can a place at the table. just a mistake. a new phase in the campaign. governor romney is now the nominee. you have a contest in which there is a lot of mud being thrown by both sides to try to define the opponent early. what that means for the romney campaign is the to point to the economy and say we have
economic problems and this guy is not a worthy steward of the american economy. what it means for the obama campaign is throw mud and say look at this guy's record and how he has been pushed to the far right and the primaries are immigration, women's rights, tax cuts. gay rights. immigration. it just goes on. that is the idea. so what you get now is both sides throwing mud and nobody comes out of this clean, chris. everybody gets dirtied up. and i think the obama campaign is investing with the idea that romney's numbers in the last week especially in terms of favorability have improved. you don't want the fact that republican women are rallying now to romney to define romney as acceptable in the mind of independent voters so i think the obama campaign is actually doing the right thing in saying you got to know exactly his record as governor of massachusetts. not a good record. one other quick note. you notice with romney sneaking out to fremont, california, to go to solyndra because he is afraid that the obama people are going to boo him or stop
him and then axelrod in boston, every gopher from the romney campaign shows up to hoot and holler at axelrod. it is just dirt being thrown at each other. >> chris: who is throwing better dirt if that is what it is? >> there is quite a bit of dirt going around. the obama campaign has a real opportunity here to make sure and look at people and say look, romney doesn't connect with voters. and i think that is the -- they have been talking about bain a lot and talking about massachusetts record and the economy and jobs. i think that is a losing proposition for the obama campaign. what the obama campaign really needs to do if they are listening is to basically say that romney doesn't connect with voters. if you look at favorability rating you see it right there in the numbers. if you can bring back the i'm not concerned about poor people, i like to fire people, all of it, you know, all taken a little bit out of context but the point is you can make a narrative to get away from the
economic numbers because that doesn't serve the obama administration at all and get administration at all and get more to a connection level. >> chris: all of the campaign and axelrod and we haven't mentioned the fact that romney spent a day with donald trump which didn't cover him in glory, the big news this week no question about it, the only thing anybody will remember about this week are the jobs numbers and the very weak job creation. how big a deal, is it time for the obama campaign in chicago to panic? >> oh, yes, and they are panicked. though the early winter reports which were so good gave everyone a sense of momentum and hope the obama administration knew that the growth estimates for later in the year were not going to support 200,000 plus jobs a month and it wouldn't be continuing.
69,000 is obviously worse than they expected. there is a higher labor participation rates and more people are coming back into the system. that could continue and makes unemployment numbers go up. that is such a symbolic metric that the public uses to measure like the state of the economy, the wrong track, right track. and so if you look at what we have been saying oh, this will go up and down, bumps and scrapes but the summer of 2012 is when it is going to solidify the opinions of voters. we are in the summer of 2012. the hour is late and there is not a lot the president can do barring some maneuvers by the fed to really change the unemployment picture and economic outlook of the voters before november 6. congress is not going to work with him on that stuff. and he is looking at a very narrowing window. >> chris: let me pick up on that with you, chip. what can the president do about it? if the numbers stay roughly this bad and people do agree the political scientists say people's ideas about the economy kind of lock in certainly by labor day or the end of september, can he win by
attacking romney? can he win by going after congress? you you you you or does he -- or summer is' -- soming suggesting now he needs to come up with a new economic plan. >> all of the above. the challenge is going to be for president obama in a short amount of time and we learned in the '92 campaign with the first president bush the economy was doing better by the time the election was but people made up their mind in the summer and a the economy is not going to get better tomorrow. even though the economists said it would be much, much better by now, it is not. the obama campaign is trying to find a message that sticks. attacked him on bain and didn't quite work. then attacked him on being governor of massachusetts and it didn't quite work. they are trying to find what attack will stick on mitt romney and they will have lots of opportunities to pick. a big challenge because no matter what happens it is the economy that is going to drive the message for the next five months, this is nothing else. >> chris: briefly juan, at this point we heard from the president and his people on friday. didn't happen quickly and not
going to be solved overnight. it has been three and a half years. continue the policies. does he say stay the course or have to come up with some late correction? >> i don't think a late correction is believable. it would reek of desperation at this point and people wouldn't trust it. it has to be a mess thank says we are in the middle of stormy waters, don't change captains at this moment and remember exactly where we departed from. you know we were in bad situation and if you look at the economy in fact there has been an increase in job creation particularly in the private sector. don't worry about europe, close your eyes to what is happening with spain. don't worry about the middle east. >> chris: that is a very convincing message. we have to leave it there. when we come back, all eyes turn to wisconsin where a bitter recall election has some
>> before our reforms a handful of special interests dictated at both the state and local level what was going to happen. instead we drew a line in the sand and said we will put the power back in the hands of the taxpayers. >> you didn't. you wanted to pit people against each other because that is the way you operate. >> chris: wisconsin's republican governor scott walker and his opponent tom barrett squaring off over the controversial law that cut back on bargaining rights for most workers. the big wisconsin recall is on tuesday. when it was started it was thought this would be a referendum on the walker plan
to cut back on collective bargaining rights for workers unions but there has been relatively little talk about that in the closing days. that was one of the few clips in the debate. much more talk barrett charging there has been corruption by former walker associates. what happened to the referendum on collective bargaining. >> i think governor walker is exactly right that the topic has shifted and the argument about collective bargaining wasn't proving to be effective. >> chris: for whom? >> for barrett and the unions. >> chris: for the democrats. >> right. now, the polls show walker with a substantial lead about 7 points although there are other polls that show it might be closing in. former president clinton was in wisconsin this weekend campaigning for barrett. barrett i should tell you is not the choice of the unions. the unions are the ones who have been driving this. barrett is seen as someone who is not particularly strong about the very collective bargaining rights that you ask about, chris. this is going to have major
impact going forward because it is about the power of unions and about the power of the republican agenda in several states. look at florida, indiana, michigan, wisconsin, with regard to unions and voter i.d. and these are what republican governors are doing and if they win here it opens the door to further funding and more sort of an energized electorate for them in the fall. >> chris: if those are the states, why is it that most of the top republicans in the country, a bunch of top republican governors coming in and backing walker but with the exception of bill clinton this weekend almost all of the top democrats have stayed away? how come? >> i think it is a big problem for the democrats to do that. no question the unions overplayed their hands with in. they put a lot of money into it and now they are losing and the national democrats are playing hands off and that is a big problem for them in november. because if the president is staying out of it and it is noticeable the president is staying out of it it are these volunteers and activists going
to stay home in november. wisconsin can be a real bellwether for november. >> chris: let's talk about the stakes for unions, ab. for those who may not remember the walker plan sharply limited the ability of public employee unions to bargain for about public workers on a variety of issues -- and it also removed the automatic dues membership. so as a result you you have to voluntarily say i'm going to pay money. it isn't taken out o of our pay check and the result is that the membership in the unions has dropped substantially. if they lose whether this is the focus now it certainly it the main back drop to the election what is the message and how bad a message would it be for unions? >> it is very tough. they have been working hard on this now for over a year. they collected twice as many signatures as required to recall the governor. they were fired up. and what they have found is that the obama administration
is not there to help them. >> chris: why not? >> what the obama administration calculated was is that this is -- if he ties himself to the recall and barrett goes down that is bad for him in the state at this point. he might not have made up enough of the difference. democrats and the unions are looking for 100,000 plus votes that weren't around in the 2010 election. trying to find people who didn't even vote for barrett or walker in 2010. they know they're going to come up short and it is not even -- even bill clinton is not going to help get barrett over the top. the administration has decided that they can't be connected to this but they will pay a price for that because labor will be very disspiritted by losing this battle and hard to imagine them being able at that point to put a lot of resources to getting people up and out and on the ground trying to elect barack obama just months from now.
>> chris: we should point out that while the latest polls showed walker leading by 7 points there have been some indications from some other surveys that the lead is narrowing. let me pick up on this, david. if walker wins, if the recall is defeated how big a defeat for unions and how much of an incentive to other governors to go after particularly the public workers unions? >> it as huge defeat for unions clearly. i think what you are seeing here is scott walker and paul ryan and others. courage has come up a lot that they have had the courage to take on tough problems. i think you will see a lot more governors take on some of the more tough budget gimmicks. the underreported story is on the ground in wisconsin as it relates to the tea party.
of tea party group there's. put all of those folks together there is going to be the number one crowning jewel of the tea party movement in -- between 2010 and 2012. murdoch beating luger, yes, huge and others. >> chris: that was indiana. >> that was indiana. huge. they have been on the ground there for a year there, chris. all of the groups. shows you the party of the tea party and what they can do in terms of taking on unions. >> chris: let's talk november. wisconsin is a blue state and has not voted for a republican for president since ronald reagan won 49 states in 1984. if walker wins how translatable do you think this is to romney having a chance in a state that has not gone republican for a quarter century? >> it will energize the republican base. people will feel there is an opportunity there not to be missed. the fact is that president obama didn't win by a lot last
time in wisconsin and that narrow margin is what has made people think it is possible here for the republicans to see a resurgence. doesn't guarantee anything because the state is divided he polarized over the walker thing. a lot of money has come in from people like the coke brothers. i'm not sure that is going to be present in the fall. but the base, the republican base in wisconsin is going to feel like wow, we are superman, we saved the day. >> chris: let's put up a poll that shows the presidential race because as we said walker is leading by 7 points but we got a poll at the same time that shows obama still leading by 8 points over romney in wisconsin. assuming a walker win and we got to say assuming this is not a done deal yet, chip, how translatable does it really put wisconsin in play? >> gives us a snap shot that says it is not 2008 where obama won in double digits and not 2010 where every republican won statewide.
but puts wisconsin in play especially if you have congressman ryan on the ticket which is possible. i think obama's people are putting more states on the board for mitt romney right now and that is good tore him. in the electoral college you have to get to 270. there is 14 or 15 states on the tossup column. the race is always about getting the states in your column as quickly as possible. right now, obama is putting states that should be democrat into the tossup column or the romney column. >> chris: leave it there. thank you, panel. see you next week. check out panel plus where our group picks up with the discussion on our website fox news sunday .com and we will post the video before noon eastern time. and follow us on twitter at "fox news sunday." up next, our power player of the week.
>> chris: the start of summer means the beginning have tourist season here in washington as millions of visitors come to the nation's capital. that got us thinking about one of the biggest attractions here. here is our power player of the week. >> it's not just that elderly or unattractive looking person on the dollar bill. >> susan mcgill is talking about george washington. as head of fund-raising for washington's home mount vernon, she is working to attract new generations to the father of our country. >> chris: are you worried that washington has been displaced by some of the other founding fathers in recent years? >> yes, i do. it's not to take away from them, but when they got their backs up against the walls they always turned to washington. >> chris: one big edition addition is education center?
>> difficult audience is 13-year-old boy, it was to get him excited. >> chris: there are interactive displays on washington's life and what is called an immersion theater. >> you go to the theater. canons war and you feel like you are right there in the midst of the battle. >> chris: mount vernon is most popular historic home in the u.s. with over million visitors a year. now there is a new project, to build a presidential library that will re-create the 200 volume collection that washington had here. >> he wrote over 22,000 letters. it really is very meaningful to read some of those and try to understand what was on his mind at that point. >> chris: one thing i learned, mount vernon was falling into disrepair in the 18 50s when 27 women ladies association bought it for $200,000.
they still own and runs the estate with no government assistance. >> since 1860, no public money? >> right. >> chris: why? >> they think it's their responsibility and the responsibility of other generous americans. i don't think -- the federal money usually comes with strings. we don't want to do that. >> chris: mcgill has more ideas. she would like to see washington's birthday recognized again? >> instead of three-day mattress sale extravaganza, what if we returned to our roots in a patriotic celebration of george washington and the funding principles of this nation. >> chris: i'm old enough to remember february 22nd. good for you. >> she is also trying to get schools to put his portrait back in the classroom? >> we will send a agree portrait along with a lesson plan, a
celebration kit, a flag that has been flown over mount vernon. >> does it thrill you when you come here. >> she is passionate about washington and mounted vernon and legacy must never be lost. >> i think the patriotism, the courage and completed commitment to his country, those don't go out of style. >> chris: one other thing about mount vernon, it's open every day of the year. if you are in the d.c. area over thanksgiving, christmas or any holiday, always go see washington or have your family there. check out my wife's new cookbook mr. sunday night's saturday night's chicken and you can see the recipe, not fried chicken which is my favorite. we'll see you next fox news