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tv   America Live  FOX News  June 29, 2012 10:00am-12:00pm PDT

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samples are being collected and officials will now try to match them with samples from living relatives of those who died. and maybe, maybe soon, six years later, those airmen will be brought home. jon: it's nice to get some answers finally. we do thank you for joining us today. "america live" starts right now. megyn: fox news alert on the house just taking a new shot at the white house and the growing battle over the historic vote to find attorney general eric holder in contempt of congress. welcome to "america live." i am megyn kelly. the news keeps breaking. just a short time ago on capitol hill, the house killing a resolution from texas democrat sheila jackson lee. she had argued that the investigation into mr. holder discredits the integrity of the house. for months, lawmakers have demanded that the ag turn over documents connected to the gunrunning sting known as "operation fast and furious." that operation armed dangerous criminals down in mexico.
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and is believed to be linked to the death of hundreds of mexico mexicans, not to mention one american border patrol agent. mr. holder was held tens of thousands of the documents. president obama issued an executive order placing them under wraps. the house yesterday voted to hold mr. holder in contempt of congress. some democrats staging a walkout in protest of the vote. house minority leader nancy pelosi leading the way. she and others have said the contempt vote has nothing to do it fast and furious. they believe that have to do with an attempt to distract mr. holder from his effort to try to challenge voter id laws in various states. he has even claimed that republicans are, in some instances, going after mr. holder for racial reasons. here is a bit from nancy pelosi. >> just when you think they couldn't possibly go any further
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over the edge, they come up with something like this. it is stunning. megyn: mike emanuel is live on capitol hill with what they had to say about this moments ago. reporter: what you and i have been talking about for the past couple of days, they are doing two resolutions in the house. one criminal, one civil. the key point was the criminal gets a lot of attention. it gets the headlines. but the civil one appears to be one that is going to get answers for house investigators looking at the "fast and furious" matter. moments amo, jay carney said the criminal contempt resolution to not go anywhere because historically, when the president cites executive privilege, the justice department does not enforce the criminal contempt citation. the civil contempt resolution is the one that seems to be the one that is the more likely scenario for house republicans to get
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information related to the "fast and furious" investigation. darrell issa, the chairman of the house oversight committee, says he has been authorized by the house to hire attorneys and what they will do, if they will go to a civil court with this resolution to say we need them to turn over the documents, republicans argue that they now focus on the investigation, and they are not asking for all of the documents related to "fast and furious." just from every of last year, until december of last year, but many will consider to be the coverup related to the "fast and furious" probe. democrats are mad. they are frustrated. they are saying that they do not have the votes to stop this contempt resolution yesterday. saying just a moment ago that the republicans were for politics and not due process. confrontation over cooperation. republicans feel like they gave attorney general eric holder opportunity to come forward the documentation ever seeking, and
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they feel like he resisted those overtures in terms of trying to come forward and give those documents. they felt like they had no other choice, and it looks like they're going to hire the attorneys to go to court to get the documents to get the answers for brian terry's family. megyn: mike emanuel, thank you. democrats have accused republicans of conducting a bias investigation, claiming that they are conducting a witchhunt against the attorney general. and it really has nothing to do with the death of brian terry print while democrats say is that his death is a tragedy, nancy pelosi raised a few eyebrows when she slugged it under an brian terry's name. >> i think we are very sad and seek justice for the family, porter told -- border patrol agent [inaudible] megyn: that was the one time
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where someone at the white house forgot brian terry same. we will speak with jason who has been out in the front of the white house with the kerry family's questions. we will be joined by brian terry's family life right here. megyn: eufaula today on the supreme court's decision to uphold the core of the president's health care law. democrats celebrating the decision, but the polls show that americans remain opposed to this law. the publicans are going to repeal and replace it. here is governor mitt romney yesterday two i disagree with the supreme courts decision, and i agree with the dissent. what the court did not do a lasting impression, i will do on my first day, if elected president of the united states. and that is, i will act to repeal obamacare. this is a time of choice for the american people. our mission is clear. if we want to get rid of obamacare, we are going to have to replace president obama. megyn: joining me now michele
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bachmann, minnesota congresswoman, a republican and former presidential candidate. congresswoman, welcome to the program. i would love for you to pick up where the governor left off. he believed this point that is the only option available to american voters if they don't like this law and want to see it repealed or replaced? >> well, he is right. governor romney correctly stated that the option that we have is a political option. it is a great option. it is the american way. people need to be optimistic and encouraged because going forward, we have the opportunity to bring back the white house with governor romney taking back the senate and holding onto the house. we will repeal obamacare. not only that, that is our ticket to setting the economy back on course. and creating millions of high-paying jobs. to this end, we are really all on the same page. governor mcdonnell came out from the republican governors association and hold all 50
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governors to stop limiting obamacare in your state. stop putting all of the exchanges. senator jim demint and myself and jim jordan have a long list of senators and house members on a joint letter urging all to governors from all 50 legislatures, don't spend anymore money putting these help exchanges in. we are going to repeal all of us and address the true problem in health care, which is cost see one that is very interesting. what the governor follows this, then the supreme court ruling may not be very as impactful as we thought. >> i'm actually not doing anything until november. >> they don't have to. the governors don't have to put exchanges in. because they have until 2014 to put them in place. right now, there is a very high strong probability that president obama will not have a second term. therefore, we should not implement obamacare. we don't have to. we don't have to until 2014.
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that is why jim demint, myself, and jim jordan in the congress, together with bob mcdonald and the republican governors are saying the same thing. that is stop limiting obamacare in your state. because when mitt romney is president of the united states and we have a republican house and senate, we will repeal. megyn: it is interesting because i think president obama staves off the sort of -- the more difficult parts of the law until 2014. many people believe that was so he could ensure a clear path to reelection. that could come back to haunt him if the states decide that i have time on my hands. i want to ask you this. understandably, if the republicans win back control of the senate, certainly by 60 votes, even by 51 votes according to most analyses, and control the house and white house -- they could do a lot to repeal this law. but what if they don't win back control of the senate? when all they do is put a republican president in the white house? look at a president romney do in the face of a democratically controlled senate?
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>> there's a lot he could do. from appointments to reform. there is a lot he can do. the law, unfortunately, would remain the law of the land. but i think you would see a lot of pressure, because we also know that millions of jobs will be lost under obamacare. that is not something i think president romney would want to see. he will try executive measures within the department. but we certainly have to win the senate. again, we don't have to win the votes. we need to have 50 votes plus one because the health care bill passed on what is known as reconciliation. it only passed with 51 votes in the senate. that is what we need to repeal it. don't let anybody tell you that we need 60 votes. we do not. megyn: yesterday was obviously a victory for the president on a constitutional basis, because the mandate was upheld as constitutional. do you think it is a political victory remap there is a lot of opining on whether this is
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actually fought with some peril for the president politically on a go forward basis? >> i think that politically this is a tough decision. on many different levels. as a positive silver lining, it would be that this is the motivation for people to not only get back the white house, the senate as well. again, we would not stop with obamacare. he would be focusing on turning the economy around and creating jobs. i think that we are seeing that. if you look at the money that has come in to the romney campaign also the cost to my office and other members of congress here, we are getting calls from people who are outraged across the country. i held a nationwide townhall with tea parties from across the country last night. we were live on the internet. all across the united states. we who are engaged in this issue, who are making president obama still obamacare policy the centerpiece of his reelection. because it isn't just about health care.
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it is about how millions of people are poised to lose their employer-sponsored health care system. this is ugly what is going to happen. millions of jobs are going to be outsourced across the country and that is what we are going to stop in november. everyone has to engage. this is a political solution. the good news is in our country, we can take the country back and we can reveal. megyn: michele bachmann, good to see you. thank you so much for having me here. there are also new questions today about the spring court ruling on the health care law. what appears to be a growing shortage of doctors. with millions of americans soon joining the insurance rules, what will happen at these already busy doctors offices and we have two positions that have been looking into this for us. they join us live on what to expect. plus, new developments in the shooting death of trayvon martin. a hearing for the accused shooter, george zimmerman has
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just wrapped up. he is trying again to get long after the judge earlier provoked it. we will show you why prosecutors told the judge that this man needs to stay in jail until his trial. and we will have more in a moment on democrats protesting the vote to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt of congress. staging a walkout and accusing republicans of going on a witchhunt. in three minutes we will speak to a republican lawmaker about those and about intermec, but possible, last step in the effort to get mr. folders cooperation. we are told that there is an option available to you, republicans in the house, and that is to possibly ask the sergeant at arms of the house to go arrest mr. holder. are you going to do that?
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this is a test.
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megyn: back to our top story today. the next that an investigation into how the department of
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justice handle the "fast and furious" gunrunning stain. to which guns were allowed to get into the hands of some very bad criminals down in mexico, resulting in hundreds of deaths south of the border than one border patrol agent possibly being killed in the united states. brian terry. there is a question about whether there was a cover-up at the justice department of this operation, in which the doj was involved to some extent. house lawmakers voting to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt of congress yesterday. the first sitting cabinet member found in contempt for refusing to hand over thousands of documents. documents that have been subpoenaed. seventeen democrats crossed party lines, voting in favor of the move. a large group of democratic lawmakers chose to walk out in the middle of the vote. calling the contempt citation and political witchhunt. jason gigot is a member of the house oversight committee that has been pursuing these subpoenas. carson, i'll come back.
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would you make of the democrats getting up and walking out yesterday? >> they complained about silly political stunts, that is what i saw as. you are instructed to go to congress to make hard difficult votes. i thought it was silly and nonproductive. megyn: you know what happened as well when the democrats moved to hold. miers in contempt? >> it doesn't mean it's right. we have to get past the. some meals at it, so it's okay for us to do it. come on. have the debate. if there's nothing to hide, show the documents. the democrats seem to be rallying a bit more around the attorney general when they were initially. the view do you view that as a genuine show of support? you do that as a political move? >> i view it as a political move. as trey gowdy has said, as chairman joe iser has said, what percentage of the truth do we want in this case? do we want 100% or just a smaller percentage of it.
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what is right in this case. we want all the truth and nothing but the truth. no matter where the documents take us. that is the promise the president obama made when he first took office, but that is not what is happening in the department of justice today. megyn: the attorney general of the united states has been found in contempt of congress. he is in criminal and civil contempt of congress. now, the u.s. attorney dunn in washington dc, he's going to go before a grand jury and proceed with criminal charges against him. that is not going to happen, is that? >> unfortunately, we have received a letter already that this from the department of justice, instructing the u.s. attorney in the district to not pursue it. i guess that is no surprise. if you actually look at the statue, i'm not an attorney, the statute does a that you shall do this and they say the president is that it has not been done in the past. we have to get past this president and with the law -- do
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what the law says. by the way, this is exactly the same person would white house claims is independent enough to investigate the leak. megyn: we are told that there is an option available to you, republicans in the house, and that is to possibly ask the sergeant at arms of the house to go arrest mr. holder. are you going to do that? two that would be fairly dramatic, but yes, option to go to the u.s. attorney, go to the sergeant of arms, have hinted they control take control of the situation, some people will say that we will do, but some people think that we ought to exhaust other options first. megyn: you think that's an option? >> i find it hard to do, but we want to get to the bottom of it. we are serious. i don't think the democrats thought we were serious enough to hold him them in contempt. this is a serious nutcase. we have a dead border patrol agent, 200 dead mexicans, thousands of weapons missing. think about it. the federal government purposely
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and knowingly gave the drug cartels 2000 weapons. mostly ak-47s. and we're not supposed to walk away and pursue this? that's not to happen. megyn: what happens if the case winds up in civil court, as many believe it is likely to, how quickly will this process did in civil court, and are we looking at months and months of lawyers going back and forth before the judge? giving us the loss, let us review it. we can't assert this and that -- before we know, two or three years have passed. >> when you get a room full of attorneys, nothing is necessarily going to go right. it is a shame that the attorney general and the white house, the obama administration is putting the country through this and the brian terry family through this. it could be stopped if they just provide the documents. megyn: jason chaffetz, thank you so much. we did more research this morning on the bottom line for your health care costs. now that the supreme court has
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given the green light to the health care overhaul. just ahead, why some of the numbers you were promised another numbers you may get. just how soon some of these costs are coming your way. we have some real answers for you today. and we are seeing a lot of angry reaction. aimed at chief justice john roberts in the wake of yesterday's decision. questioning his ruling and politics. we have some behind-the-scenes reporting from the court just ahead. >> john roberts apparently has evolved. it did not taken that long. the accolades from the left have already started. with the obamacare and arizona decisions. roberts activism is firmly[ malc evident. with scottrader streaming quotes, any way you want. fully customize it for your trading process -- from thought to trade, on every screen. and all in real time. which makes it just like having your own trading floor,
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megyn: republicans were warned by speaker john boehner not to spike a football, so to speak, if the health care law was struck down. democrats apparently not receiving the same memo from their leaders were not heeding it if it was sent out. the obama campaign taking full advantage of a marketing opportunity. take a look at these t-shirts. on sale at the online obama store, referring to vice president obama-- vice president biden stephan. use some off color language on the ruling of the health care law. taking to twitter with a post that read, it is constitutional, the word that rhymes with witches. he took to twitter with an apology a short time later. megyn: we have some disturbing new images from the brutal
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violence unfolding in syria. this is extremely graphic. it shows dozens of mangled corpses lining the street in the city of goma. some of these victims are said to be members of entire families, and you can even hear the person filming crying out, god help us. some of the worst fighting still coming out of the besieged city of transport. it was after dozens were found massacred in that city. we got this video showing a very young girl walking through the rubble of her house and telling someone how government troops had come in and taken members of her family away. streaming live in the syrian capital where our cameras have been looking at a firsthand look. greg? reporter: hello, megyn. going for broke in the stronghold of cities and homes. here is some of what we saw and
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heard. in our latest visit. >> this should be a quiet area of homes. this morning we are hearing gunfire from snipers from a building above here, and then heavy artillery coming in the distance. this is also the headquarters of the cerium paracrine presence. the international red cross affiliate. they are huddled inside why this goes on. they can't go out, and people out there are caught in the crossfire. now, that fighting in the suburb of damascus, we are told, it is worse than the worst that has ever been seen there. tanks and artillery in civil areas, many residents being killed. moving around damascus itself, we found it to be nothing short of an armed camp. checkpoints and soldiers were everywhere, especially in those antigovernment areas where we spent some time. we felt a lot of tension, we felt a lot of anger, a lot of wariness. by the way, little thought about
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diplomacy. there is a high-level meeting in geneva this coming weekend. secretary of state clinton will attending. the u.n. envoy says he is hopeful. it looks like he will fight to the end. brian claypool we have breaking news coming in on tom cruise and his wife katie holmes. the hollywood bombshell just released coming up. there are also new questions about the spring court ruling on the health care law and what appears to be a growing doctor shortage. with millions of americans can join the insurance rules, what'll happen up content that is already busy doctors offices and will we get the stuff doctors from? >> we have to practicing physicians would've been taking a hard look at us. they will join us right after the break. making history with a vote to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt of congress. the reaction from the family of murdered border agent brian
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terry. they join us live. >> that if you were here, he would think different. i have trouble going to the cemetery. he was not supposed to be there. sweet! [ male announcer ] the solid thunk othe door on the jetta. thanks, mister! [ meow ] [ male announcer ] another example of volkswagen quality. that's the power of german engineering. right now lease the 2012 jetta for $159 a month.
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next week. coming up later "kelly's court" takes up the new questions raised today at zimmerman's bond hearing about this case. is he a threat to the community or a flight risk and did he manage to persuade the judge that he is not being deceptive? the supreme court's decision to uphold the core of the president's healthcare may be a lifesaver for some, but some see it for a problem for an already struggling medical industry. primary care doctors and many other doctors are already in short supply in this country. so what does it mean for you and your doctor? dr. marc siegel and dr. zamati are members of our a-team.
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i have to tell you. i asked folks on twitter last night how are you feel being this ruling and the feedback was they feel scared. they are scared about what this means for the people who do have insurance and what it means for them and their doctors because in part it's already hard to get in to see your doctor and it's hard to get your doctor to give you a lot of time and many are wondering if the doctor can give the full care he or she wants to give under the new law. how many doctors are we short and how dots addition of 30 million people to the inrules affected. r? >> covering preexisting conditions and health insurance universally across this country is something everybody is happy about. but who is going to take care of you. the association of medical colleges tree district a shortage of 100,000 come toarls
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by 2025. i'm also concerned about doctors' discontent. what about the doctors already practicing? are they going to restrict themselves to insurance. are they worried their particular procedure isn't covered? dr. zamati is one of the top prostate surgeons in the world. but he does a technique which he invented called the smart technique. it's the modified advance robot i can technique which is unbelievable, actually. he's invented this tech affect. but he's an artist. how is an independent medicare advisory board going to figure that out. they will look at statistics and not realize one surgeon is more experienced than others. megyn: what are they going to be telling doctors like you? >> i think mark's point is well
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taken. we'll have the change everyone asked for and it's here. the question is how are we going to deal with this? the two-tier system is going to become a resalt. megyn: where the rich pay out of pocket and the rest have to choose among the second tier? >> we are seeing 78-year-olds coming to the office asking for viagra. that has never happened. medicare is supposed to be you pay a lot of money, then after 65 you live a few years now you are done. now these guys are living locker and longer which is a great thing. every day 10,000 people turn 65 and they are medicare eligible. how are we going to take care of this mass val? some of us among doctors have to decide.
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we'll see big volume. high quantities. maybe cut down object the quality. if you sit in the waiting room one hour and see your doctor for five minutes don't be upset. somebody will say i want you for the whole hour, i'm willing to pay for it. >> i agree with everything. nurse practitioners always send me e-mails. they say why don't you mention nurse practitioners are up by 80%. many of them are capable and have an important role. but they do not have the same training as me and dr. samadi. they are use full but they can't replace us. you can't take us out and put them in. >> the role of nurse practitioners and medical assistants should not be to replace us. he has gone through four years of medical school and years of
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residency training. we have shortage of anesthesiologists so we have nurse anesthesiologists. in my own practice i have superb medical assistants. i have nurses and p.a.s that work with me. they are a big component of what we do every day. without them none of us could survive. megyn: but they can't replace you. it sounds like we had a doctor shortage after obama-care and obama-care did nothing to solve the doctor shortage. so it didn't solve the doctor shortage, yet it added millions to the insurance roles. so i think that's one piece of it. we'll be understaffed. but the business you are talking about, about more regulations and restrictions on how you practice is what folks worry about as well. is somebody now telling you what tests you can and cannot order? >> you better believe they are.
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>> i asked for a study to find out if the cancer is spread or not. we called the insurance company and they said it's denied. why? because they have a list of stuff and they see low-risk prostate cancer, don't approve bone scan. but this particular patient, the entire prostate is packed with prostate cancer. he needs the bone scan. so for me to get on the phone which takes another hour of my time, try to make them understand -- megyn: how did obama-care create that situation? >> the problem was already there but now it will be magnified. >> you are getting 33 more committees that will say one treatment is better than another. the u.s. preventative service. no psa, no mammograms 40-50.
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ip companies pick them up. i want to say to you as an attorney. an important piece you may not realize. if i want a test and i try to order it and it gets denied, the insurance company and the government is not liable. but the physician remains liable. because of that it puts more and more pressure on us. >> the debates between healthcare being a privilege versus rights and having full access and having preexisting, all of those are health write debates that all the -- are healthy debates. the question is how are we going to take care of it. none of this stuff that's been discussed with obama-care is going to soft problem. you know why? patient's responsibility is the way to go. in europe they are spending less money but have a better outcome. we are not europeans. we don't eat the same food. a third of the country is suffering from obesity.
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diabetes is on the rise. i can give you any kind of insurance you want. >> the united states we pay only 12% out of pocket for medical expenses? that's among the lowest in the world. if we would pay more we would know more of what we are getting. megyn: you need to skin in the game. >> we need some skin in the game. megyn: thank you both. coming up next we are getting more information on a big bombshell involving hollywood superstars tom cruise and his wife katie holmes. "people" magazine reporting some major news about the pair. we'll tell you what they are saying. straight ahead. in the last 24 hours, chief justice john roberts has become a punching bag for conservatives unhappy with his ruling. >> just because five lawyers in black robes, one of whom was
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purported to be conservative, a man i knew a long time ago, issued a decision the sort that they issues, doesn't make it proper. as a matter of fact this decision i would go so far to say is a lawless. u receiving a t from a legal settlement or annuity over 10 or even 20 years? call imperial structured settlements. the experts at imperial can convert your long-term payout into a lump sum of cash today. your doctor will say get smart about your weight. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes.
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megyn: now that the court gave a green light to the healthcare. the taxing agency has more power than we thought. >> reporter: there is a concern about a more intrusive i.r.s. in light of what's going on with health reform. the i.r.s. will now have access your personal household insurance information, also your household income in order to assess the mandate penalty which is either a flat dollar amount or percent average your modified
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household income. you will get information from small businesses on whether they are providing affordable health insurance to their workers. also they will be getting from individuals whether or not employers are getting -- offering affordable insurance to you as a worker. the irs will be collect the mandate penalty. and we are hearing this comes on top of their enforcement of the tax credits that are at play in health reform. already senator chuck grassley very concerned that the irs cannot enforce existing tax credits. remember we have prisoners getting tax credits and on top of that the irs will be able to share your insurance information with medicaid and state exchanges. and also insurers as well. megyn: in akissing to the tax
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agent -- in addition to the tax agency getting bigger we are told that costs will grow under this law. joining us is the former director of the congressional budget office. now we know a bunch of americans will have to pay this tax if they don't buy one of these plans the government is putting out. how many people are likely to have to pay this tax? >> they are going to be on the order of 6 million people we believe will have to pay the tax. megyn: who are these people? >> for an individual figuring out whether you owe the tax is look looking at a semi conductor chips. there are so many piece to the decision. whether your premiums are 8% of your income or more. by and large if you make more than $18,700 as a family, you will have to pay the tax.
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it will get phased in until it's $700 for adults or 2% of your family income with a maximum of $2,100. i think people will struggle to understand it. megyn: if you make $30,000 or $40,000 and you don't have insurance odds are you will be one of the people affected by this rule, that you have got to buy health insurance or you have to pay the tax. >> you will be levied a tax. it will be on your tax form. if you don't pay that it's subject to being doubled when they come back to fine you. megyn: is there a cap to the tax? >> 2% of your income up to $2,100. so $4,200 roughly when it's doubled if you don't pay the tax. megyn: they will be able to do all the matchup of whether i have got the insurance and what
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my income is, some of which they already get. they say, miss kelly, you didn't pay it. do they deduct the $2,000 from my tax refund? >> you would have filed an incorrect tax form and if you had a refund coming they would take $2,100. if you didn't they would say we need the $2,100. if you didn't give to it them you are subject to further penalties. megyn: they could sue you for $2,100 or $4,200 if they decide they are able to double penalty. >> they can get the $4,200 to you. it adds to the burden the irs already has. i want to he can coat report you had before i came on which is the scale of the information sharing which has to include the department of homeland security for those who decide whose here legally, health and human services, the i.r.s., insurance
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companies, state exchanges, individuals, it's hard for me to imagine this is going to work well quickly. it's a big logistical problem for the law. megyn: all these people will be getting your insurance information. whether you bought the insurance policy in addition to income information? >> absolutely. the law requires the collection of agencies to find out in america from the 310 million americans those who are eligible for the subsidy. calculate the correct amount of their subsidy, and deliver it in advance each month to the insurance exchange in the state of their residence to the policy of their choice. think about what you need to know to do that and realize the information will be enormous. megyn: when we talk about the income of the people likely to get hit by this tax. the:president all a -- the path said he wouldn't raise tax on
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people who make less than $200,000 a year. toss this do that. >> yes. he violated that pledge. there is the direct tax and a lot of others. megyn: coming up next, this horrible situation in colorado with wildfires getting worse. that's next.
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megyn: we didn't need alert on this. but you know fox. we just confirmed a famous hollywood row man is over. tom cruise stan katie holmes are calling it quits after five years of marriage. her attorney calls it a personal and private matter. tom cruise says he is deeply saddened and is concentrating on his three children. he has a doubt were katie holmes
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and two children he adopted with nicole kidman. they married in a lavish ceremony back in 2006. this is holmes' first marriage and cruise's third. president obama is about to arrive in kold to tour the growing devastation. the fire burning has forced tens of thousands of folks to evacuate their homes. 350 homes gone. entire neighborhoods reduced to ashes and the fight to contain it is just beginning. alicia? >> if the weather stays calm, crews are hoping they will have better news tonight. they were able to stabilize some of the lines because the winds had calmed. there was enough progress made that officials were able to lift some of the evacuation orders. some of those 32,000 people out of their homes this week are going home. there are 347 home that have
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been destroyed and those residents were given the details of their loss yesterday evening. the president will be arriving soon and will meet with firefighters. police said they did not have the resources to dedicate to the president's visit so that was taken over by the el paso sheriff's county office. the president is being criticized by republican billow evens. however, sitting governor, a democrat, says he welcomes the president's visit. megyn? the supreme court ruling on healthcare is a victory for the president. will healthcare now surpass the economy as the biggest issue in this campaign? we'll discuss it right after this break. plus yesterday the house voted to hold attorney general eric holder in contempt of congress. we'll be joined live by the family of this u.s. bored patrol agent whose death has been
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linked to the fast and curious operation. hear what they think about the latest from the attorney general and the white house just ahead. on car insurance? no problem. you want to save money on rv insurance? no problem. you want to save money on motorcycle insurance? no problem. you want to find a place to park all these things? fuggedaboud it. this is new york. hey little guy, wake up! aw, come off it mate! geico. saving people money on more than just car insurance.
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megyn: $4.5 million and counting. opponents react. after the supreme court yesterday ruled that the individual insurance mandate can survive as a tax, the white house is declaring victory, especially after a rough couple months for the president. but that so called victory is firing up the republican base. angry conservative voter showing their disappointment by sending donations to governor mitt romney. mr. romney taking in some serious campaign cash. he's taking in $4.7 million from 47,000 donors, according to his
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campaign. chris, david schweickert echoed a line saying the supreme court ruling had awakened a sleeping giant. is that money reflective of that? >> well, it is. certainly it's this. this is not how mitt romney usually raises money. the way mitt romney usually raises money is he goes to merchandisers and they back up a dump truck full of checks from wealthy people who support this campaign and he goes off with them. that's a super efficient way to do it. but for romney this is not generally how he does it. this is how president obama raises money in smaller increments from lots of people on the internet. the reflection -- the obama campaign says we raids more than that since then. and maybe that's so. but this is a sign of a changing dynamic for mitt romney.
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this is not how he usually raises money and the strongest indication we have so far that for the conservative base and for the libertarian-minded and tea party republican, this is okay mitt romney, we are all in on you, we are pushing the chips in on you. >> you have been saying all along the best political outcome for the romney campaign would be what happened yesterday, which is to have the constitutionality of the law upheld for the most part. >> here is the deal. the republicans -- the last things the republicans wanted to be doing yesterday was coming forward with a healthcare plan to replace with the supreme court struck down. the democrats have been effective at selling the good why is in this package that relate to young people staying on their parents health insurance can't drop sick people from their insurance coverage. those have proven to be popular. it's the other stuff the voters don't like. so republicans would have been scrambling to come up with a
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plan to replace those things and it would have allowed president obama to be carpet bombing them for not caring about the middle class and being mean to sick people. so republicans would have been in a sad state if that would have happened. this way they can say the one thing everybody right of center sea breeze on. yank out the president's plan and replace it. megyn: it's been a motivational issue for a lot of voters in this country where they threw some 3 dozen democrats out of the house because so many voters were upset about this healthcare law. many folks felt it had been rammed down their throats against a popular segment and made some democrats pay. the question is whether they will make president obama pay or anybody else pay in the 2012 election. the president said the constitutionality has been upheld. it's time to move on. you opine in your power play piece that that will be not be effective and that won't work.
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why? >> people don't like this legislation and there are so many questions and so much uncertainty. it was deepened by the roberts decision on this in saying by the way, states can't be penalized for opting out of the huge expansion of medicare and it's a tax. so you have all of these new variables put in. there is a ton of uncertainty. businesses and insure ours aren't sewer how it's going to work. if you take away the heart of that decision. roberts basically kicked it to the jury. he said, hay, voters. it's not my job to protect you, if you don't like the laws you get from the people you elect. you don't like the, vote somebody else in. mitt romney is saying i'll be your guy. megyn: why wouldn't this just fade away and be an issue people would forget about now that it's been declared constitutional. >> do you think people feel more
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confident or less confident about what their healthcare will be a year from now. i would say more uncertain. we'll revisit all the controversial provisions inside this law. they will have to deal with that. people are going to want to know. moms in swing counties in pennsylvania, ohio, wisconsin, colorado, are going to want to know how does this affect me and my family? how soon, how much, how expensive and how good is the care going to be? those are the things voters will care about now that this is happening. some put off the hard look until we knew whether this thing was going to stick around for the supreme court or not. i guess we don't even know now. chris, thank you. some of the people who are unhappy with the high court ruling are asking how the justices reached their decision. chief justice john roberts take something flack for siding with
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the left-leaning members of the high court. conservative radio talk show host mark levin was not shy about letting listeners know he was not happy with justice roberts. >> john roberts apparently has evolved. the accolades from the left have already started. with the obama-care and arizona decisions. roberts' activism is firmly evident. arizona was a brutal attack on the tenth amendment, an expansion of the federal preemption power beyond what is provided in the constitution. and the decision today as i will get into it in some great detail is a brutal assault on individual sovereignty. now we have something akin to the warren court. it's still evolving but we'll find out one day i'm sure. and there are conservatives out there -- it's painful to watch
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these people, bending over backwards to pretend this was a great victory. but they are wrong. they are dead wrong. just because five lawyers in black robes, one of whom was purported to be conservative a man i knew a long time ago, issue a decision of the sort they issued, doesn't make it proper. as a matter of fact this decision i would go so far to say as it is lawless. that's why people are stunned. megyn: shannon bream covers the high court for us. >> reporter: washington is rampant with discussion on what motivated john roberts to uphold the law based on the congress' power to tax. >> i think that the affordable care act opinion goes a long way
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towards saying the roberts court is not just motivated by politics. >> reporter: but there is inside the beltway chatter about whether the calls targeting the court and in leahy's case specifically the chief justice may have put enough pressure on him to affect the outcome. many court watchers believe the dissent is littered with potential clues. >> the dissent does seem in places to have been a majority opinion. you can see various verbal clues. the fact that they pointed out that the tax issue wasn't really discussed at argument. and so that suggests at least it might have been a late-breaking development. >> reporter: it was clear the government's strongest selling points was never going to be the congressional power to tax. a great deal of time was spent arguing the penalty tied to the individual mandate was not a
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tax. the taxing powers did get some sea tension. but at end of the day we have to assume it at least got attention of the chief justice. >> he was quoted saying he's off to mall a. shannon, thank you. yesterday i asked former attorney general alberto gonzalez about the opinion the chief justice wrote and the criticism of the man gonzalez helped to vet. people watching saying thanks a lot, john roberts, what say you? >> i would like to spend a little time thinking about the opinion and reading it carefully and would like to with hold final judgment. i have got a great deal of respect for john roberts. i spent a lot of time vetting him and spent a lot of time talking with him about his philosophy of judging. listen, no matter hot judge is.
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if you are going to disagree with respect to the decisions by judges. that's the what it is. but i have a lot of faith in john roberts and the decision he rendered today. megyn: we are taking your thoughts on it. over the past couple years we heard critics criticize the president for focusing on harris faulkner at the height of the unemployment crisis. now that the supreme court upheld the bill can of his law. what does that mean for people who do the hiring? our panel with some small business owners and what they believe this ruling means for them. plus moment after this man learned his fate inside a courtroom, he was dead. details of a verdict that triggered a fatal reaction. and more than 100 house democrats proudly walked out during a contempt of congress vote against attorney general eric holder. their reaction. the families to the latest development in the operation
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fast & furious scandal next. >> brian ultimately did come home that christmas. we buried him not far from the house that he was raised in just prior to christmas day. and tell our ranges to whip up dinner. let's plug in to summer savings before they're gone... ...without wasting an ounce of energy with smart machines that turn housework into house play. more saving. more doing. that's the power of the home depot. right now, save $600 on this maytag french door refrigerator, just $1,598.
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megyn: a dramatic scene in a courthouse. a man dies moments after he's convicted of deliberately burning down his home. this video is disturbing. let's start with the verdict. >> we the jury upon our oath find the defendant michael james mayer guilty of arson of an occupied structure. megyn: watch as he closes his eyes as the rest of the verdict is read. both of his hand are closed.
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he covers his mouth with an open palm. we don't know for sure but there are theories he swallowed something or a lot of something. win minutes he collapsed onto the floor. paramedics rushed him to the hospital where he was declared dead. investigators won't know what he swallowed until the toxicology report comes back. he faced 17 years in jail for burning his mansion down because he could not afford his mortgage. holding the attorney general of the united states in contempt of congress. reaction from the family of the man who has become the public face of the botched gun running program operation fast & furious. u.s. border patrol agent brian terry was murdered by members of a mexican drug cartel here in america who were armed with guns believed to have been tied to that american operation where
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guns were placed in the hands of bad people in mexico. terry's mother says she was shocked after 100 democrats walked out to protest the contempt vote against attorney general eric holder. house minority leader flubbed pronouncing agent terry's name in her remarks. >> we all have much agree we are sad -- we very much agree we are very sad for the family of brian terry. megyn: brian terry many cousin testified before congress. we are appreciate you being here. you can flub somebody's name even if you know the name well. i think the former speaker gets some forgiveness on that. but she has been very vocal in condemning this contempt of congress vote saying it's a
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political witch hunt and is meant to distract him from his effort to protect voters in various states. your reaction, sir? >> the family of brian has suffered many indignities the last 18 months since his death. they continued some seek answered behind miss failed operation. it just seems to be one roadblock after another. yesterday's proceedings we didn't take any pleasure from seeing that. but it didn't have to happen. you know, our only goal is to seek justice, to seek accountability and to seek the truth. and that's all we are hoping for. megyn: how did you feel when you saw those members of congress get and walk out as they were voting on the contempt resolution? >> it was insulting. there were democrat members of
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congress that remained in chambers and voted. i thought that was the honorable thing to do. megyn: do you feel that the contempt vote is a step too far? some believe that this has now become political. >> there's no doubt's become political. this has become a partisan issue. that's part of the indignity to brian's memory. a lot of people are forgetting here, we have had a federal law enforcement officer murdered. the whole purpose should be accountability and answers. and that's what's getting lost in all of this. megyn: i want to play you what the attorney general said yesterday after the contempt vote and get your reaction. >> instead of trying to correct the problem that led to a series of flawed operations and finding better ways to protect the brave
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law law enforcement agents like brian terry they led to us this unnecessary and unwarranted outcome. megyn: mr. holder said all along he has sympathy for your family, respect for what brian terry did in serving this country, but there is a protocol when it comes to turning over document from the doj and he's going to follow the same protocol he believes was put in place under the bush administration and others. >> there are a lot of smart people in washington trying to figure this out. and we have faith that it will be worked out. but in the meantime we are not going to sit idle. we established the brian terry foundation and the mission is to honor brian and to create a lasting legacy in his name. megyn: do you believe -- you were made a promise by democrats and republicans at the beginning of this investigation that they would continue this and pursue this until they had the names of those responsible no matter how
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high it went in the administration. do you believe that that promise has been fulfilled? >> it hasn't been fulfilled because there is still material that needs to be produced. you know, the investigators from the house overtight committee need to see more. and the american people need to have the truth. and until those document are turned over, you know, there are questions. and the terry family has lots of questions. and we are not going to be satisfied until the truth comes out. megyn: brian terry, your crown season was out defending this country defending our border 18 miles from the mexican side. there are still questions in connection with his death. we appreciate you taking the time to be with us. >> brianterry.com is where
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your listeners can go to find out more about the information. megyn: george zimmerman tried to convince a judge to let him out on bond again. he got bond it was revoked. see why the prosecution now argues he should stay in jail until his trial. and a guilty plea from the younger brother of convicted upon custody keeper bernie madoff. would you get this close to a lion or let your son get this close? the story behind this picture coming up. ♪ [ alyson ] just keep walking... ♪ oh,ome on!
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megyn: 7-year-old alex herrick was posing for a photo. his dad sean says by the time he took the picture a sleeping lioness was up and look for dinner. >> okay, alex, move over. is a get ready to take the picture the linest gets up, she is look at us, i thought this will be an excellent picture. then no sooner do i get the camera up to my eye and she takes a quick leap six feet and takes another leap and she is paws in air. he looked like a snack and i think i was the entre. megyn: alex says he felt the linest hit the glass.
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we had a lot of heavy news. we had to get in tom cruise and linest. it can't all be so heavy, otherwise we get bummed out. the brother of notorious ponzi schemer bernie madoff is head for the slammer. he's pleading guilty to falsifying records out of a scheme that robbed investors of tens of billions of dollars. >> he's a free man. he will post bail of $5 million. and be sentenced on october 10. what victims of bernie madoff and his broth are enraged regarding is the fact that peter madoff at most will only serve 10 years when he's sentenced october 4 in the fall. he said during this guilty plea that he's ashamed and sorry for what he did. he then goes on to say he did not know prior to december 2008 that this brother or anyone else
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was involved in a ponzi scheme. but here is where it gets tricky for peter madoff. he says he didn't know his brother was involved in a ponzi scheme but he admits to falsifying records claiming madoff only had 23 private clients an was aware that was a lie. the document was signing, he knew there were 23 client. it begs the question how could you not go to your brother when around lawyer and says what gives. he admitted to tax fraud, receiving millions of dollars he and bernie would turn around and giver the family members in the form of loans to avoid paying taxes. no other madoff family member has been charged but that implicates his daughter shana who is on the receiving end of those loans. then but bernie's son who received loans for which they signed promissory notes. no other madoff has been charged
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yet but we got a statement from the u.s. attorney in which they say essentially that we are not yet finished, calling to account everyone responsible for the epic fraud of bernie madoff and the epic pain of his many victims. megyn: new questions in the trayvon martin case as we wait for a judge to decide whether george zimmerman will be freed on pail again. could zimmerman persuade the judge that he is not being deceptive after he and his wife are accused of lie being their finances? we'll take a look at what happened in court this morning. small business owners asking what this healthcare ruling means for them. you might care as well if you were employed by a small business. in three minutes we'll break it down with our panel of business experts. what's in store for these owners and their employees? one american city under fire for creating a fuss over military flags honoring our servicemen and women.
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megyn: small businesses are some of the biggest job creators in the country. based on the ruling businesses with 50 or more employees will be forced to buy insurance for their employees which could discourage some small businesses from expanding or hiring more employees. but some small business owners say this is all a good thing. joining me now, a columnist for the "wall street journal," and david selig and small business owner larry fisherson. you run a telephone company. i know a lot of people have objections about this law. some say it's great. what do you say, is it a small business you run? >> over 70% of the jobs are created like businesses from us. it's the biggest job killing
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piece of legislation out there. we run our margins in business. we already had our healthcare go up 30%. i'm taking out 50% or 60%. the unemployment rate is going to sky rock fret this legislation. it's the biggest job-killing piece of legislation. megyn: why is the unemployment rate going up? >> i have 35 employees under that 50 amount. we are successful profitable business and i want to continue to grow. this is america be skies the limit. you want to continue to grow. megyn: but, david, there is a credit for small businesses in this law that is supposed to make people want to hire more employees because the government is trying to cut your losses for you. and stave off that discouragement he's talking about. >> that's true, but the issue -- we don't know what the costs
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associated with the administration is going to be. additionally the healthcare compliance law, the inevitable compliance on it will open the door to much more comprehensive audits. what we anticipate is seeing the internal revenue service looking at employee classification, whether or not an individual is an independent contractor or an employee. i met with many people from the i.r.s. and the government. some very prominent tax attorneys and cpas. and the prevailing thought is underneath this plan is this machination to close the tax debt through these audits and catching tax cheats. megyn: it' not about complying with obama-care, it's about getting businesses in line on other issues. megyn: simon you talk about certainty for businesses. did they get it yesterday? is that one benefit of the ruling? >> if president obama is
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reelected they have some certainty. there is a lot of talk if gets elected he wants to overturn this. so until we get clarification on the election or until it becomes clear there is going to be a winner in november and it's president obama then we won't get that uncertainty. once we know that the healthcare law is here to stay and that certainty will be helpful because people know what they are dealing with and will be able to make decisions based on that. megyn: somebody wrote an op-ed talking about how this is great for his small business. he said he will get a tax credit. it will cut 20% off the cost of him insuring his employees and the tax credit will go up up to one-third if 2014. is that note real? >> i think that helps him. he can make plans and decide what he wants to do. and, you know, the thing
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about -- you know, having healthcare, it's a competitive marketplace for good workers out there. good workers want to have healthcare. i know i do. >> on the subway system you can raise it by 0%, then give a 20% credit. you are still paying 40% more. so that's nonsense. megyn: i want to talk about that point. the concern of many americans. let's say you work for an employer covered by obama-care. even i work for an employer that's covered. the concern is that it's going to be cheaper for these companies to pay the fine per person, like $2,000. if you don't provide health insurance. >> it opens the door. if you look at ir c-section 7201
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, the section they use to prosecute tax evaders. but there is also for defeating a tax. if this in fact is under the rubric of tax and you are opting to pay the fines, i think that's a very -- that's almost a stones throw to opening the door to some additional problems. when the government made their extrapolation they depart from generally accepted accounting principles. >> when you take a job you take a look at the whole package. the pay, the possible bonuses and benefits package. megyn: no healthcare. >> what else are you doing for me? it's a competitive marketplace. megyn: what they say is in some of the smaller industries. there are lots of places. but in the smaller industries where there is only a few
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competitors they are talking about the fire on need one company to say, i'm not doing it. i would rather pay the fine, then the others will fall. if the entire industry starts doing it, getting rid of the employer sponsored health plan, is that a reality? is that armaggedon? >> the whole thing with this plan, this is a redistribution of wealth, socialific plan. so you believe in capitalism, want to grow business or you don't. and this election -- you are either going to vote for this socialific model or you are going to vote for the repeal of it, of capitalism and entrepreneurialism. >> this is the one area where i have got a lot of fondness for the national health service. i probably wouldn't be alive it wasn't for the national health
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service. it's free if you walk in. they have no mechanism to take money. i have been to hospitals and they take if you and get you treated straight away. i think the healthcare here is better if you can afford it. but i still have a lot of fondness of it. i don't think people need to be terrified of it. megyn: even though some employees don't like the. what is the market telling us tell us? >> i don't want to go too deep in the woods. >> the issue is we don't know what the administrative costs are and we don't have any cost controls. so when you talk about predictability, the government made these extrapolations and they are favorable extrapolations. the market may say it's much different much like when president bush put in the prescription drug plan. that cost wildly more than we expected it to.
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medicaid, almost of any these programs that sound so good at first blush end up having a crushing, crushing bill. and i don't think saying the treatment we got was lesser quality. but more of it is where we want to go. >> here is what's interesting. if this plan is so good, why is president obama and the family and friends' plan getting waivers on it. if it's so good why do they want waivers and not this plan? megyn: we'll leave it at that. george zimmerman is back in court for a bond hearing. prosecutors are argue he should stay in jail until his trial. that's next in "kelly's court." okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle --
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megyn: a hearing wrapping up over whether to release george zimmerman on bond.
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the judge not saying when he will make a decision. for now zimmerman remains in jail. his bond was revoked earlier this month when prosecutors told the judge zimmerman and his wife misled the court about how much money they had in the bank. zimmerman claims he shot the teen in self-defense. the prosecution says he created a web site for his legal defense that raised almost $150,000 and failed to mention it at the first bond hearing. it was the focus in the courtroom today. zimmerman hoped to convince the judge he won't lie again. listen. >> it went from george zimmerman to his wife to his sister. from his sister and his wife back to george zimmerman and eventually transferred whatever trust they set up. so would you agree that the transfer of money to two
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separate accounts when they transferred after that was a way to mislead some authorities if they were trying to find out how much money they had at the time. >> it would make it appear you didn't have the money. megyn: joining me now, jonna spilbor and brian clay pool who is a defense attorney. you saw the prosecution trying to make the court they mislead the court about how much money he had in the bang. he's trying to make the case that zimmerman cannot be trusted and should not be afforded the privilege. did he get the job done? >> i think he could have gotten the job done without any testimony from his financial consultant. i don't know what our court system have come to when a defense lawyer is allowed to bring in a forensic financial consultant to explain perjury.
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i don't think there is anything he could have done today to rehabilitate himself. i think bringing on this expert makes a mockery of this court system. it's common sense. where is common sense in the courtroom. >> reporter: the prosecution was merciless talking about the misleading testimony that his wife offered about their absence of finances. here is a bit of that testimony. >> a lady who was married to and wanted to mislead the court in terms of the amount of money they had. they applied to the court. they told the court they were indigent when they had $130,000. i would request that the court keep this defendant under no bond because now, you just don't have him committing a crime in terms of what the state has him charged with, you have him lie
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together court through his wife so it becomes a more egregious set of facts that makes this a more disturbing incident or crime and therefore i would ask the court to continue to have his bond revoked and keep him under no bond. >> remember in law school when our professors used to say something was a red herring? it's much ado about nothing. this fund was not set up so that george zimmerman could flee the country. it wasn't set up so he could violate his bond. it was set up so the guy can afford to have a trial and hire private counsel. the money is in a third party's hands right now. he does not have access to it. he's not a flight risk. he nonresponsive more a danger to the community than was when the judge set his bond. let him defend himself. >> that's not the issue. the issue is whether he can be
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trusted. he lied and conspired to commit perjury at the initial bond hearing. the on issue should have been is he a flight risk. he clearly is a flight risk as well. he's conspiring with his wife. >> here is how his defense lawyer tried to frame the issue before the judge today. this is sound bite number 8. >> they didn't tell you the truth about the money. and i'm asking not to require that he now spend the next year in jail for a crime that now that you have a better flavor for the evidence, he may well have an affirmative defense, self-defense for and he may well never get convicted by a jury of his peers if the state has proven this crime or any crime beyond a reasonable doubt. i ask you not to punish him any
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more than you have that they did not trust to you give the on money they had until four days later when they did. megyn: should zimmerman spend the next year in jail as his lawyer admits he was from the truthful with the court at the first bond hearing? >> putting him back in jail was for punishment purposes. the judge made the point. and because this almost -- this turned out to be another bond whrearg we got the hear moree more evidence of how innocent zimmerman may be. if he's not going to get convicted of murder at the end of the day, why should he rot in jail while's defending himself? megyn: go ahead ahead. >> he should rot for the next year. he had a chance to tell the truth at the initial bond hearing. he lied in court. that. this sent a terrible message across the country to any defendant who wants to walk into a courtroom and lie in front of
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a judge under oath. later on say, no problem, we'll let you go free. megyn: after the break i want to play the viewers sound of the defense suggesting trayvon martin was killed because of his own doing. that's next. rrhea, gas or bloat? get ahead of it! one phillips' colon health probiotic cap a day helps defend against digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. hit me! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. the charcoal went out already? [ sighs ] forget it. [ male announcer ] there's more barbeque time in every bag of kingsford charcoal. kingsford. slow down and grill. in every bag of kingsford charcoal. but they can be really well thexpensive.ted a puppy, so to save money i just found them a possum. dad, i think he's dead.
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>> i don't make light of it when i say if mr. martin haas shot because he had broken somebody's nose an had gotten him on the ground and smashed his head against a cement walkway, at least twice, and if you look closely at the video, the side of his head looks stripped. then he got shot and he was killed because of his own doing.
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megyn: this will play out at the hearing on stand your ground or before a jury. >> that is the nature of the defense. he just laid it out for us. that's going to be the issue here. if it doesn't pass here it will be the issue at trial. megyn: the prosecution had their say as follows. listen here. number 6. >> he called the non-emergency call, they told him to back off. he takes him down. the person who actually had self-defense. in their belief they plan to prove that he ran after trayvon martin and he is the one who started the confrontation.
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>> that's the case. the 911 case will seal the deal. what the prosecutor has got to do is reduce charges from second degree murder to manslaughter. she is going to have second degree murder because it requires what's called a depraved mind. we know there was a scuffle. so she is not going to be able to prove that. but what she can prove is it's manslaughter because it was due to zimmerman's reckless conduct. zimmerman did not heed the order from the 911 dispatch operator to not follow trayvon martin. don't follow him. megyn: they charged second degree, does the jury get charged manslaughter without something else happening? >> manslaughter will be a lesser included. so at the end of the day, he will probably be conduct victed of that even if he goes up on and murder charge. megyn: we'll be right back. don't go away. him the business..
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