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tv   America Live  FOX News  July 11, 2012 10:00am-12:00pm PDT

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lead to cancer in some people. get moving. jenna: sitting down feels so good. jon: it feels good to stand up. anyway, thank you for joining us. jenna: "america live" starts right now. megyn: fox news alert on the new california city going broke and seeking bankruptcy protection for the latest domino to fall on what may be a growing public pension crisis of epic proportions, playing out in several places across this country. welcome to "america live" everyone, i am megyn kelly. this city is san bernardino. population 210,000. one of the largest cities to approve a bankruptcy filing. after finding himself more itself more than $45 million in the hole. it is joining two other california cities in recent weeks, mammoth lakes and stockton. as if they find themselves unable to pay their bills. trace gallagher is live from l.a. with a very latest.
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boater we are talking about a surgery with nearly 1012% unemployment. the third-highest foreclosure rate in the country and now we learn that the accountants in san bernardino who have been cooking the books for 13 years, spreading out the losses. the city of san bernardino is so broke that i cannot make payroll after august 15, which means that police, firefighters, trash collectors and other city services would likely stop working. here's the reaction after last night's vote. listen. >> i've been here all my life, and to see this. thirteen years we've been lied to. reporter: so green to chapter nine bankruptcy, the city can stop paying creditors and use the courts to renegotiate contracts for city workers. but this is important. it cannot get out of paying the cost of pensions and health care or retired city workers.
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that is an enormous chunk of city revenue. this is a stark warning for cities across the country because now moody's investors, which is the credit agency for wall street, some 8500 local cities and counties are now unfunded and their pension liabilities by $2 trillion. that means that you are obligated to pay, but you simply do not have the money. here is the biggest problem. when cities invest in pension money, they base their rates on return at between 7.25% and 8%. in actuality, they are only getting four to 5%. here's the problem, pension liability come if you have a 10 million-dollar liability and you're getting a percent and you are only getting 5%, it means they really have $13.5 million in liability, and movies is likely to downgrade the credit rating of hundreds of cities across the country. listen. >> this is just a spiral effect.
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as financials get worse, movies will keep downgrading them in interest rates will go higher and higher, eventually again. you are at a point where you are out of money and declaring bankruptcy. reporter: three california cities filing bankruptcy. san bernardino, stockton and my hometown mammoth lakes. there will be more in the next several months and years to come. megyn: it would be great if you could just think i'm getting a percent or 10% interest every year. but who is managing that other than the bernie madoff returns? >> that's exactly right. the biggest problem is they are basing this long-term. they are projecting out 15 or 20 years like in san bernardino, saying that we are going to get a percent every year. you nailed that down to three or 4% for those 15 years and the numbers we just showed you go up ex- potentially, and that is what is happening across the board.
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megyn: why not say you're going to get a 20% return every year? as long as we are in fantasy fantasyland, why not go with it? thank you. meantime in scranton, pennsylvania, another city almost broke and hard to meet pension promises. some are fighting the mayor's decision to/workers wages down to minimum wage in the city. $7.25 an hour. democratic worker chris dority/his own paycheck to the federal minimum as well. now, 10 injured police officers and firefighters who have seen their disability pay/are suing. he had been ordered not to do this with a salary. he wanted, instead come to raise property taxes by 75%. amazingly, they did not approve that on the city council. the mayor says the city of more than 76,000 folks is broke. he says they have $5000 left and despite what this court has told them to do, which is not lasso
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salaries, they can't afford to pay the paycheck. what are they going to do? >> the courts are now trying to figure it out. megyn: we will have much more in the next hour. another fox news alert. mounting pressure on illinois commerce and jesse jackson junior. jackson is being ushered to answer questions about his mysterious illness. in his extended absence from congress. his office announced his leave in early june, citing exhaustion the representative has not spoken on the house floor since early may. and he has missed about 80 votes so far. here is what the second ranking democrat in the house have to say about that. >> people get sick. when people get sick, they miss work. everybody in america understands that, but i think the family would be well advised to give his constituents as much information as is appropriate. megyn: now we are seeing more and more democrats come out and
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say he owes the public an explanation. and you can go mia and stay silent about it when you get paid by the taxpayers to go in there and do a job. his father, jesse jackson, says his son is just resting. we are hearing complaints about security concerns today following a decision by the obama administration to shut down border patrol stations in four states. certain stations. the white house says the stations being shut down in texas, idaho, montana and california are not in high-priority areas. some critics fear the move will seriously jeopardize efforts to fight drug cartels and illegal immigration. ted poe joins us from capitol hill. congressman, thank you for being back to the program. the obama administration says we are hitting cities in texas like lubbock and amarillo and dallas -- they are not border towns, we have to allocate unlimited limited resources, and we are going to move our resources closer to the southern border. what's wrong with that?
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>> we need more resources on the border. we need national guard and border patrol and enforcement, but we also need other enforcement. because when the drug cartel, the human traffickers get across the border, there ought to be -- some of them, in west texas, where they are able to come across the traffickers they get across the first line of we need to balance the approach and we need to put all the resources on the border. megyn: given the position of the obama administration, we don't want your help in enforcing immigration laws, once you remove these borders -- border patrol stations from the cities, where the locals to do if they find an illegal immigrant who does not meet the obama administration's definition of a potentially deportable person?
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they are basically concentrating on felons and people who recently crossed the border. what business do not? >> they don't know. six of these closed border stations would be in texas. interestingly enough. parts of west texas, local sheriffs, the local law enforcement that captures folks, coming into the united states illegally like drug cartels, now they have these people that have no place to put them, what are they supposed to do? call somebody to come get them and wait for hours? there are no resources for us to turn those people that are captured by local on enforcement over to the federal government if the federal government is not fair. there. it doesn't make a lot of sense to border patrol agents on these areas of the state and put them somewhere else. megyn: they say this is where the savings of about $1.3 million a year when they close these nine or 10 posts. they are saying that they are redeploying and reallocating resources at or near the border. do you know for a fact, congressman, whether they will take that and move the staff down closer to the mexican
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border? or are these positions being eliminated when i. >> know, we don't know, we hear the rhetoric from the white house that we are going to put these border patrol agents were that it will be of more use. we don't know where that is. once again, megan, we need them in both places. if we need resources and if the administration thinks we need more resources on the border, and i think we do, let's put more people on the border and have more border security and the interior enforcement. when the drug cartels realize they can cross the border, they get across the border, they're home free and can go anywhere in the united states unless there is a second line of defense to be looking out for these guys. megyn: now we know that in some of these towns, there is not going to be any border patrol office. it has been telegraphed what towns those are. apparently, according to your fellow representatives from texas, they say that the amarillo and lubbock stations along, which are being closed, account for 638 apprehensions of illegal immigrants just this
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year. cumbersome and, i have to run, but thank you very much for your time. all the best. up next, an exclusive interview with a man about to release a new documentary on the president. it involves trips to hawaii, kenya, and indonesia. in three minutes and he will share with us who we talked to, what they told him, and why he's doing this at all. and the mother of a hollywood heavyweight says she isn't here for her life after sharing her thoughts on the president's reelection. we will show you the title wave of backlash and threats against the life of brad pitt's mother. plus from the unbelievable story of a teenager who survived an encounter with an alligator gets even more amazing. here today in his own words, what he did when this predator went for the kill. >> the gator was about right here for me, i took my hand and i grabbed that skin up underneath of him and try to control him. he just kept going, i pulled his
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head up and i brought my legs around him. he just went and go. oice. take advil, and maybe have to take up to four in a day. or take aleve, which can relieve pain all day with just two pills. good eye.
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megyn: folks are lucky to be alive today after terrifying car crash. folks say that she crashed into wooden poles. with these pictures, oh, my goodness. you can see the pools swimming through the windshield. troopers are still trying to figure out why the woman did not stop, the driver claims she doesn't remember anything. you have to be very careful. i get very nervous about things on the highway. there is a new documentary about to be released for years in the making. it attempts to piece together the facts about our president and his ideology.
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it is based on interviews and family records from far and wide from hawaii to indonesia, to the slums of nairobi, kenya. >> obama has a dream, a dream from his father. but the cities of colonialism be set right and america be downsized. >> [inaudible] cemented has been a long time coming. but tonight, because of what we did on this night on this election, this defining moment, it changes america. >> america has a dream from our founding fathers. but together we must perfect liberty and america must sell liberty drugs.
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which dream will be carried in 2016? megyn: joining us now is the codirector of his new film, 2016, obama's america. welcome to the program. what was the purpose in pursuing this documentary? i know that he wrote a book, and they say that this is based in part on the book he wrote in 2010 all the roots of obama's rage. >> it is, but i also have a new book coming out next month called obama's america, it is based on both books. reason for the film is that obama is the most unknown person to ever walk into the white house. priest previous presidents have been known figures. obama came out of nowhere. four years later, we still don't know a lot about him.
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with this film does is it tries to raise the curtain on who obama is whether people like them or they don't like them, they will get to understand a lot better. megyn: he went to kenya and you interviewed barack obama's half brother, would you find? >> well, that's an interesting chapter in the film. george obama is the president's half brother. i was intrigued by him because i discovered that he was living in a six by 10-foot putt in the slum of kenya. now, what is odd about this is that barack obama, president obama, has been going around the country saying that we are our brother's keeper. it is one of his praises. we owe obligations to each other. here he has his own brother, his brother and the guys living on a couple dollars a day, and president obama is a multimillionaire, honestly the most influential men in man in
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the world, has done nothing to help them. i thought it would be interesting to sit down with george and ask them. if you are the president's brother, how come he has done nothing for you? >> i just saw a clip that was posted on mine. megyn: he says i'm an adult and i donate them to charity to he says that, and so he is reflecting an ideology of self-sufficiency, which actually i admire. the funny thing is that i listen to george, george is trying to make his own life, and he doesn't have the anti-colonial animists or bitterness of those of his father. barack obama senior. we talked to him about whether the problems of kenya in the and the third world, due to the west, in other words, making sure that why these companies are responsible for being poor. he said no, when kenya got independence, they were as supportive as south korea.
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the look of the at the way that south korea has advanced enormously and kenya is still an economic basket case. he said that is not the west. that is our fault. megyn: you are a controversial figure because you don't seem to be a fan of the president and you have made some controversial remarks about him in your book. you are basic theory seems to be that his father is the same as he is. this controversial father about whom barack obama wrote in his memoir, "dreams from my father." he is somehow realizing his dreams through his son. and it 2012 op-ed come you wrote about this african socialist who raged against the world for denying him the realization of his anti-colonial ambitions is now setting the nation's agenda through the reincarnation of his dreams and his son. that seems a stretch for a lot of folks come even folks who are not that big of fans of the president.
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>> i think it seems a stretch, megyn, simply because obama has been such an uncovered president. in other words, hardly anybody has spoken to the people who knew his dad, who knew obama, who knew his mom i'm a that is where the documentary fills a picture in. and kenya, we don't just talk to george obama, but i am sitting with obama's grandmother, at the family homestead. i talk to people who knew barack obama senior and mid obama junior, who are in a position to compare the two. and so, i'm able to take a theory that i have advanced a couple of years ago and actually tested people who really know what they're talking about. megyn: when you talk about the father that was anti-colonialism, which seems to be true, but you talk about how that applies to obama. explain what anti-colonialism is. and when you believe our sitting president all is that very? >> the ideas of anti-colonialism
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are thoroughly stated in obama's own book, dreams from my father. if you look at that book, you will see that the word civil rights appear as only a few times in the book, but the world colonialism -- colonialism appears on every single page. this is not a theme i'm invented for this is what obama himself has talked about. the second thing is is that the main idea on anti-colonialism is twofold. one is that the west is that rogue nation in the world. american influence has generally been bad that and we have to pull it back, reduce american influence abroad. the second idea is that capitalism is a form of fat. the rich countries got rich by looting the poor countries and you need the power of the states to bring down the big bad corporations. these are idea that obama has been following. megyn: i have to go, but honestly there is a lot of pushback on whether this is in
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fact, you can power the suns believes what the fathers. it's always interesting. thank you, sir. a massive explosion after a train to derailed in ohio. stay tuned. but all you need is 3. lashblast for volume, outlast -- for kissing... simply ageless to help you look easy breezy beautiful covergirl.
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megyn: susan boyle's voice capture the hearts of people around the world. but not her neighbors. they want her to pipe down. two of her neighbors filing an official complaint. saying that she sings too loudly. in fact, she is so loud, singing in her home, but they say they can hear their television sets. oh, the horror. she became famous after
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appearing on the tv show britain has talent in 2009. right now the search is on for a missing bank director, $17 million went missing under the watchful eye of aubrey lee price. right now the problem of finding him is that detectives don't know if he is dead or alive. trace gallagher has the story. >> he actually wrote a 22 page letter to that securities and exchange commission, mentioning some bible verses and apologies for the dramatic letters. he -- his family thinks he tells himself. they say they are not so sure about that. the accusations that when he ran, the montgomery brings in georgia, that instead of investing the money come he wired it into an account that only he controlled, and then forged all the documents. in his letter to the sec, he writes quoting here, i created false statements, covered up my
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losses, and deceived and hurt the very people i was trying to help. he went on to say my depression and discouragement have driven me to deep anxiety, fear, and shame. i'm emotionally overwhelmed and incapable of continuing this life. his plan was to board a ferry in the florida keys and then jump off before it got to fort myers. police say he bought the ticket, he also bought divers dear. >> subsequently, we do not know where he is. literally, if he actually got the bow before a fort myers. >> so far, there is no record of anybody seeing him jump off the vote or get off the vote. he just came back from venezuela in june, megyn, and apparently he owns property in venezuela and the possibility is that he owns about big enough to get him to that property in venezuela. so the feds are making sure that they check everything out before
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they agree with the family that 46-year-old aubrey lee price indeed it did kill himself. megyn: wow. wow. thank you. there is a stunning report three months in the making that says labor unions have spent more than $4 million on political activities in recent years. does this change the debate on the super pacs that have been so targeted by the left? we will take a look. plus, brad pitt's mother now getting death threats after the right leaning mom makes her views of the president known. janine turner defends the actor's mom. she is joining us live today. a man is facing jail time and thousands of dollars in fines. his crime is holding a bible group study at his home. the case of the bible study versus the building codes.
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that is coming up in "kelly's court." >> i don't understand how something so small got so large like this. people do it all over the united states all the time. mine was earned off vietnam in 1968. over the south pacific in 1943. i got mine in iraq, 2003. usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because offers a superior level of protection, and because usaa's commitment to serve the military, veterans and their families
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martha: breaking news just moving on our wire service now. days after a series of terror arrests in london we are getting reports that the united kingdom sent in an extra 3500 troops to protect the summer olympics. one of the reasons a private contractor was supposed to
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provide thousands of trained security guards for the london games but it looks like that contractor came up short. we are still waiting for more details on all of this from the british government. as we get them we will bring them to you. >> last week the supreme court reversed a century of law that i believe will open the floodgates for special interests, including foreign corporations, to spend out limit in our elections. [applause] martha: that was president obama at his 2010 state of the union address blasting the united states supreme court for its ruling, and warning about the fallout from that ruling that opened the door to more political spending by corporations and less highlighted by the president by unions. today the other side of the story. the "wall street journal" this week released an exhaustive report finding that labor spends about four times as much on politics and lobbying than believed before.
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they looked at the years from 2005 through 2011. they started with the number usually cited by unions based on filings that they have to make with the federal election commission, which is $1.1 billion in political spending, that was the number believed to have been exhausted by them. but the journal uncovered an additional $3.3 billion based on additional documents that unions had to file, bringing the total amount of union political spending to $4.4 billion. that is practically a billion bucks a year in between election cycles, presidential election cycles. joining me for a fair and balance debate. dan skwrers stein and ben ferguson host of the ben ferguson show. that is a lot of change, 4 hoeupb 4 billion. the question is whether that says something about union power versus pack power, corporation power that the left has had a real issue with in the past.
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>> this is a one-two punch, this is union power with the power much being a pack at the same time. it's a union pack. and if you look at the roles unions have got even smaller over the last ten years, the last 15 years so they've had to raise even more money and try to be more influential through political donations to keep their clout. we saw what happened with governor walker, the amount of money that unions are able to spend is much more as i've seen with packs. they say look if you want to keep your job and all the higher level benefits and higher level pain the private sector you've got to pony up cash so we can fight this. that is what the unions are doing right now. martha: they say that the journal is including too much that they do in the politics category. >> well, let's step back. focus on this comparison, unions versus superpacs misses the dying forest for the desecrated trees. the whole system is rotten and
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rigged. it was rotten and i rigged before systems united and that's made it worse. martha: that was the supreme court decision the president was criticizing. >> yes. both sides exploit loopholes and bend the rules to gain advantage. now if you're asking me what is the bigger threat to the public interest and the democratic process there is no comparison this is apples to chocolate-covered strawberries. the superpacs do not have to disclose where most of their money comes from. they have no constitutional standing. they were created out of whole lot by the supreme court. martha: who spends more? >> first of all -- >> unions. >> that is not true at all corporations out spend unions ten to one. martha: that's what we thought before this court. >> we are talking about billions of dollars here. obviously the influence that unions have been able to have over the last several elections is impressive. the fact that you can be losing
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members and have as much influence you have at the white house, in president races and governor races, it shows how much money the unions can use to buy their influence. to act like union -rs not big or super packs i think is disingenuous, that is exactly what they are. money buys power and they are buying it. martha: left me shift the debate -- >> i'd like to finish my point. martha: sure, go ahead. >> the big difference is up superpacs, again they don't have to disclose. martha: you made that point. >> and a big difference is, they are not spending money to organize. they are not spending money to represent and communicate to their members. that is what the bulk of the money that unions spend. unions spend a lot of money -- martha: that is not what the journal report says. the journal talks about how they are spend ago lot of money persuading their members on how to vote, to vote the way the unions want them to. >> that's right. martha: if you're in a union then you're used to this. a lot of teacher friends of mine
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told me, the teachers union tpreunion pressures them. who are you going to vote for, why are you going to vote for this guy. you should go for that guy. the point of the journal article is that 92% of the time what they are saying to their members is you should -- you better be voting for the democrat, where as the corporations and the donations say it's 50-50 democrats, republican stpwhr-s if i work at a private company there is a good chance that i can put my money to the candidate that i want. if i'm in a union 92% of that cash is going to democratic candidates even if i oppose it, that is the problem with this whole entire power that unions have you really, if you're a member you pay your dues you don't have a say so on which candidate your money goes to support. the leadership decides we're democratic, we're going after barack obama, that's our guy or going after the person turning against governor walker, for example and you have no say so. when people say they want to know where the money is coming from, how many people in unions
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are able to hide behind the union? we never know as an individual who that person is or what they really think. that's the big, big shadow of darkness i want to know is who is in the union and how much money are they giving through the unions. >> ben, this is part of the problem with the debate, he's creating a bogeyman to shower attention on the union. >> can you tell where the money is coming from? no you can't. >> it comes from union members. >> who are the members? you can't tell me who the members are. >> all union contributions have to be disclosed. how they are spending has to be disclosed that's where the "wall street journal" got their information. all their political activity has been charted and disclosed to the department of labor. with superpacs there is almost no disclosure. there is no accountability. martha: the journal says that there is no requirement that unions report all of this other spending to the federal election commission. >> they report it to the department of labor. martha: there is another $3 billion that they say that they don't have to report. >> that's because it's not partisan campaign activity. a lot of it is advocacy
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spending. that is a big difference to them. super packs are purely there to elect candidates. >> hold on, hold on. if advocacy is saying to your members you must vote for this person that is political in nature and we should know about that information. we are talking about 3 billions of advocacy. i want to be in the advocacy billions. martha: it's not as much as you might get from a bar of gold. i'm kidding you, ben. you may recognize ben not just from the show but from side work he does. it's a lot of dough, thank you guys so much. >> thank you, it's good to be here. martha: we showed you some of the worries at the top of the hour over this growing public pension crisis. the cities declaring bankruptcy. san bernardino in california becoming the third city in california to seek bankruptcy protection just in the last two weeks. but the research suggests that this may be the tip of the iceberg, we will show you how big this problem is getting. just ahead.
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and jealously rears its ugly head. find out about how a fight about the wildly popular book "50 shades of gray" landed one man in some very hot water with his girlfriend and the police. plus, he's the florida teenager who survived a horrific alligator attack. coming up next hear how he describes the terrifying encounter in his own words. >> he started pulling me down and i knew it's either this bone -- i've got to lose this arm, or i'm going to die. so i put -- took my feet and i put it on his mouth and i tried to jerk my arm off trying to break it free. i finally got it close enough to where i could put my foot and do one last snatch and i swam to the bank. almost tastes like one of jack's cereals. fiber one. uh, forgot jack's cereal. [ jack ] what's for breakfast? um... try the number one! [ jack ] yeah, this is pretty good. [ male announcer ] half a day's worth of fiber. fiber one.
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seems to be more conservative. she wrote into her local paper recently explaining why sthaoe thinks christians should vote for mitt romney. some suggested they shouldn't because he is a mormon. she took issue with that. little did she know there would be backlash and threats against her life. she writes, i think any christian should spend much time in prayer before refusing to vote for a family man with high morals, business experience who is against abortion and shares christian conviction concerning homosexuality just because he is a mormon. let the onslaught of criticism begin. jeanne turner is the host of the jeanne turner show, and an actress. welcome back. >> hi, megyn. thank you. megyn: you've got to feel for jane pitt, right? if she had written this and she with us a private citizen i imagine the backlash wouldn't have been as severe. she is brad pitt's mother and she doesn't share his ideology.
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you have online comments like brad pitt's mother die, f-you brad pitt's mother, what a b-word. and nothing on this from brad pitt. >> that is what i find the most troubling. if anybody says anything about my mama you're going to hear from me. i'm disappointed that pit brad pitt hasn't stepped forward and said wait a minute this is my mother. i don't agree with her opinions. she has a right to free speech. i'd like everybody to back off my ma'am a. that kind of concerns me. >> they sent the brother brad out to the today show to talk. or doug, whatever his name was, in any event it wasn't the most full throated defense of his mother. she went onto talk about how if you don't vote for romney it's a vote for his opponent barack hussein obama, she writes, a man who sat in jeremiah wright's
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church for years, did not hold a public ceremony to park the national day of prayer and who is a liberal who supports the killing of unborn babies and same-sex marriage. this seems to be the passage that got people very upset with mrs. pitt. >> i can hear you again, megyn, i couldn't hear you for a while. megyn: sorry i was talking about the other passage in mrs. pitt's op-ed. where she talks about barack hussein obama. he sat in jeremiah wright's church. he supports the killing of unborn babies. those are the issues for which she is being demon iced by hose on the left. >> the no hate thing for proposition 8 how they have tapes over their mouths, the irony of that is it's slander and intimidation. liberals slander and intimidate people for speaking out. and conservatives back off. and now she is backing off because she is scared.
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these why we have all the problems with the liberal courts, liberal hollywood, liberal madison afternoon things of this nature and we can't back down any more especially this election cycle. >> she is against same-sex marriage she is a christian, that is consistent with christian teachings. we are vs. audio problems. she is struggling to hear me. she says i'm against same-sex marriage i'm a christian. does that make her antigay as everybody has said. megyn: i'm so sorry jeanine. the audio problems not working in our favor today. we'll try to continue with jeanne turner who is lovely as always and always a pless tour hear from her. i apologize to you as well. sometimes live television just doesn't work the way you want it to. coming up next how to survive an alligator ada attack in the words of a teenager who did exactly that. what he did when he came face-to-face with the prehistoric predator and what he wants to do now after living to tell the t ale. bill o'reilly says the ghost of
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ronald reagan may be haunting the people in the white house nowment. >> if ronald reagan was successful in reviving the american economy by dropping the tax rates for everybody, why would anyone think president obama can revive the economy by doing the exact opposite, by raising rates for investors and the affluent?
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megyn: an amazing tale of survival from a teenager who lost part of his arm in the jaws of a giant alligator. 17-year-old kaleb langdale swimming with friends in a river near florida on monday when a ten-foot gator charged at him.
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wildlife officials hunting down and killing the animal. kaleb langdale speaking to a local news station telling the story how the gator attacked him and what it did when it pulled him underwater. here is his story from beginning to end. listen to this. >> we were jumping off the little boat ramp, and then we got the brilliant idea, let's swim across it. i've spent my whole life in the water, i was out in front leaving everybody in the dust, and i was about 30 yards away from the bank, and my friend abraham starts yelling, tkpwaeulter. i said why you messing with me like that. and i looked and there is a gator coming, he's moving as fast as he could. and i told them to get back. when the gator was about right here from me i take my left hand and i grab that skin up underneath him trying to control him, and he just kept going and i pulled his head up and i wrapped my legs around him an just went and dove.
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well i was trying to like hold onto him so he couldn't bite me, but he done a death roll and knocked me off, so i took my foot and i kicked trying to like gain speed to go to the bank, and when i was swimming like throwing my arms back and forth this one he got it. and he done another death roll and broke all the bones, everything in it, like i just felt, it's gone. well he started pulling me down, and i knew it's either this bone -- i've got to lose this arm, or i'm going to die. so i took my feet and i put it on his mouth and i tried to jerk my arm off trying to break it free, and it finally broke free or i thought but i started swimming back i felt like a little tug, like a ten done or muscle or something was still attached to my arm in the gator's mouth. i was almost to the bank and he took off underwater again and he pulled me down. i went and tried to jerk it again and i finally got close enough to where i could do my
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foot and do one last stph-fp and i swim to the bank and my friends, gary, matt, and abraham, they were still in the water. i saw gary jump out. i said get out of the water. come around and call 911. i started to make my way up the bank. my arm was pleading really bad. i grabbed spider webs, whatever i could, spider webs will stop the bleeding. it was bleeding real bad. i took my arm and put it between my legs and squeezed and stopped the bleeding. i had the bleeding stopped even before the cops got there. >> people want to know if you're okay. >> yes, ma'am. >> anything else you want to tell them. >> if you come visit me, you cry you're leaving, yeah. megyn: god, he's remarkably composed, isn't he? this just happened on monday. he says he's glad that the gator went after him instead of his friends, because he doesn't think old gary and the other
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guys would have done the same thing. that's unbelievable to me. wow. impressive and i like his positive attitude in the face of adversity. always to be admired. well just into the newsroom brand-new video of a massive explosion just after a train derailment in ohio, watch thi this. [sounds of explosion] >> jesus christ! megyn: our apologies for that to the viewers at home. you can understand the reaction to the folks on the scene. the blast forcing the evacuation of a mild-wide area. just ahead a live report on the worries in this area after the crash. terrifying moments aboard an american airlines flight when it hit turbulence so bad passengers thought it was dropping out of the sky. why it happened with no warning to the pilots. >> i knew we were going to die. we were going to die. i thought we were going to die. it was scary.
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megyn: a fox news alert on a new round of problems for the already challenged democratic national convention in charlotte. the challenge in charlotte is getting big were reports that democrats are struggling to find money for their convention. and union groups that usually show up in force are turning their backs on the entire thing. some convention events have been canceled and the convention kickoff party had to be moved over cost concerns we are told. several democrats facing tough races say they will be skipping the convention all together and there are concerns all that could prove an ugly distraction from the president's message at this thing. chris, the finger pointing
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started on who is to blame for them falling reportedly $10 million short so far. maybe more, maybe less, for the funding needed to pull off this thing, this party, and everybody is blaming everybody. in the midst of it you have the unions saying we are not going to help either. >> that's because north carolina is a right to work state where people don't have to join unions if their workplace is unionized and that's not cool if you are big labor in america. so they are having a shadow democratic convention in philadelphia to celebrate organized labor. so that will be an annoyance. bit contributes to the other factor which is coming up with the money needed to throw a party of this magnitude. charlotte was looking at this that this would be great, that all these people would be coming to town and all this money would
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be spent. they wanted to get together $40 million to throw one heck after party. well, they are having trouble coming up with that money because in part the unions on the coughing up as much as they had hoped. now there is concern they might have to curtail it even more. megyn: according to some reports they are $15 million short. they are tight lipped about how much they are short. we are a couple months away. what is the plan -- where do they get the money from. they are going to have a democratic national convention. so where are they going to find the money? >> this happened at the same time the president is trying to get well-heeled democrats to cough up money so he can close a fundraising gap he has with mitt romney, $24 million last month. but they will come up with the money. they will just have to squeeze harder. democrats are starting to cast some blame.
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"the washington post" casting blame on the ceo of duke energy, who is a dig democrat and supporter of the president but he has not bent rainmaker on this that people expected and democrats are grumbling that he spent so much time dealing with his company instead of trying to raise money so this comes off without a hitch. megyn: have you ever heard of such a thing that convention funding is falling short and we know the name of the guy who is supposed do this? why is it happening now? >> it's happening because of the unions and the president having to squeeze his donors so hard and so often. north carolina is not a bright blue state. republicans experience almost -- some of these difficulties when they were in st. paul, minnesota in 2008. but this is much worse, and remember when you get down to it when it's time for the president to have his kickoff of the final stretch of this campaign he will
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be doing it in bank of america stadium, bank of america is highly identified with bank bailouts and those kinds of things. this state looks unlikely to go back in the president's column this time. so they probably just overreached a little bit in going into the red state like that. megyn: gay voters are upset because necessity passed a constitutional amendment banning gay marriage. unions are upset because it's a right to work state. some democrats are upset not showing up all together. sir, thank you. >> you bet. megyn: fox news alert on president obama's healthcare law. we are awaiting a vote by house lawmakers on repealing the president's law after the supreme court repealed most of the legislation. this will mark the 33rd vote
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to eliminate or defund the healthcare law which remains unpopular according to most poll with the voters though parts of right popular. this latest attempt comes less than four months before election day. mike manuel monitoring all the action. oosms. >> reporter: the healthcare law is quite different in reality than what was sold to the american people. let's take a look at the house floor where you can see the argumentatives. those in favor of repealing it say it's likely millions of americans will actually lose their employer-backed healthcare benefits. they argue it will cost trillions of dollars to implement the law. so they are making the case it should be repealed and replaced. >> unlike the current healthcare law which has raised tax, cost jobs and limited personal control of healthcare. americans deserve meaningful and affordable healthcare reform
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that will lower costs protect consumers and increase accessibility while allowing americans to control their own healthcare decisions. >> reporter: at least three democrats are expected to join with republicans in favor of repeal. dan borne from oklahoma and mike mcintyre from north carolina. this is a very tough vote. for top democrats in the house they say this whole effort is a huge waste of time. >> this healthcare bill creates $4 million jobs. but there are many other job initiatives in congress that they have obstructed. let's stop this legislation to nowhere that they have on the floor today. let's get with building a new initiative for job creation.
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>> reporter: the arguments for and against repeal are underway. a number of freshmen republicans were he atlantic on repealing the healthcare law so for them they feel they are keeping a campaign pledge by moving forward. megyn: mike emanuel, thank you. a new video on the train derailment explosion in ohio. watch. some of those freight cars were carrying ethanol. when they went off the tracks it sparked a massive blast. witnesses say it looked like part of the sun explode. the blast forced the evacuation of a milewide area. mike tobin following this story live from our chicago bureau. >> reporter: while this
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derailment, explosion and fire are stunning to see we have a few bright spots. the two people reported injured, those injuries are said to be minor. we have not gotten the all clear but we anticipate it sometime soon. the evacuation zone has been reduced in size. you mention that the fire was primarily limited to three cars hauling ethanol. 30,000 gallons of ethanol. that's why you see such a great big fire. the good news is it does not produce a toxic cloud when it burns. there was a lot of concern because this particular freight train was hauling some cars containing stayo -- containing styre nerks, a component of plastic. but this does raise the old concern, that when toxic chemicals are hauled over the rail lines, only the railroad
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knows about it. the federal rail information said if you were to make that information public that could create a national security threat. but as things stand right now. the local haz mat and emergency crews only learn about the toxic chemicals coming through their town when there is a problem. megyn: a pastor punished for holding a bible study in his own home. he's facing jail time and thousands of dollars in fines. is this justice or just plain ridiculous. one of the most epic car chases in california history ends with a high-flying finish. bill o'reilly says the ghost of president ronald reagan may be haunting president obama ahead of the november election. >> you and i as individuals can
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>> reagan kept the government mostly in check adding 12,000 workers in that time. by contrast, jimmy carter added almost 100,000 federal jobs in just four years. during mr. obama's first three years in office the feds have added about 130,000 employees. more than 10 times what reagan added in 8 years. so you can see that in obama's philosophy is the exact opposite of mr. reagan. but history shows president ray began was successful in reviving
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the american economy so that's why mr. obama's policies are perplexing. megyn: that was bill o'reilly talking about the way presidents reagan and ball reacted during complex times in office. they handled the problem differently and had varying degrees of success. things have not gone as planned for obama in reviving the economy. so o'reilly says the ghost of president reagan may be haunting mr. obama. michael reagan is chairman of the reagan group. your dad came into office in duff economic times and took over after a liberal democrat had been governing and offered a different approach to governing and one that did get us out after serious economic mess. more and more folks like o'reilly are saying why wouldn't
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president obama be using your dad as a model. >> it says a lot about an economics degree from eureka college. he got his degree in economics and understood it immensely. i'm hearing more about the economy at the reagan household dinner table. it's amazing how many times my dad's name is mentioned. bill o'reilly is right. barack obama is trying to raise himself above my father, above kennedy and everybody that he's the greatest president this country has ever had. i think this is a man who has been constantly mad at success in the united states of america. every place there is success he talks down to that success. it will not follow the rules of success. i learned growing up and you probably did also. if you want to be successful, talk to successful people and do what they are doing and you, too, will be successful.
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i guess there was nobody successful around barack obama. megyn: when you look back at the speeches your dad gave and talk about success in america, what a champion he was not just for folks who wanted to move their way up the heard, but for those who had made it and holding them out as an example and trying to talk to people who would like to be like them, talk them out of demonizing the successful folks and rich folks. here is a sample of that. >> we have so many people who can't see a fat man standing beside the thin man without coming to the conclusion the fat man got that way by taking advantage of the thin one. megyn: well put. >> that speech was "a time for choosing" and it launched the political career of ronald reagan. you could give that speech today. just change some of the numbers around and you are there. today 40-plus years later the
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democrat party is still using the same mantra. they are still blaming the rich for the poor being poor, but like my father goes on to say in that speech, you would think after these many years that the government would give you some kind of scorecard how well they are doing at bringing people out of poverty. more and more people are going into poverty. as bill o'reilly said the other night. 3.1 million more people have gone on disability under this administration. he creates 80,000 jobs in june but 85,000 go to disability. megyn: your dad talked about not penalizing success. don't penalize successful achievement in this country because that's what we are all about. president obama had a message monday, we need to get the rich to pay their fair share. he would say he's trying to make
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the system more fair and to folks pointed out that your dad after he lowered taxes significantlien the rich did wind up raising them a bit as well. >> yes, but he took them from 70% down to 28%. he made some changes in it as he went along. but the reality was by lowering taxes he knew more money would come into the government. so if the government doesn't spend all that money you end up paying down deficits. but ronald reagan knew you didn't punish people for being successful. this president punishes people for being successful. he's punishing the job creators in this country. you live in new york. i live in california. $250,000 may and lot of money if you are living in butter, montana, but it's not a lot of the money in new york or
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california. so he wants to punish those people who own a small business and create the jobs in this nation we call the united states of america. megyn: the cost of living in the big cities is out of control. you have people looking fear studio apartment, you can't get a studio apartment for less than $4,000 a month. >> some of his biggest contributors have turned in their passports and left the united states of america because of the tax system. megyn: barack obama is looking for to bill clinton. he said i want to return to the tax rates of bill clinton. the country was doing very well under bill clinton and that's the only place i want to go to. so it's not that outrageous. >> the reason people aren't creating jobs right now is this president -- everything is only by a year. let's just do it for a year.
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if he gets reelected in a year do you believe in 2014 he won't take those bush tax cuts and say forget, we are not going to reup them for a year? if he cares about middle class and cares about america, make the bush tax cuts permanent for everybody. megyn: michael reagan, thank you, sir. coming up, a terrifying 15 seconds at 30,000 feet. airline passengers say they thought when they are going to die. just exactly what happened that landed several of them in the hospital? also, one of the most dramatic car chases in california that we have seen recently with a high-flying finish. this isn't how they normally end. the truck goes airborne. the unbelievable ending on tape and we'll show it to you. another california city crushed under the weight of public pensions. there is trilts in unfunded pensions it's not just you
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california. how many more san bernardinos are we going to see in this nation? >> in all these years we have been here working for the city and enjoying the city. now all of a sudden it comes to light after 16-20 years they have not been running in the green, they have been running in the red. ♪ [ female announcer ] life is full of little tests, but bounty basic can handle them. in this lab demo, bounty basic is stronger than the leading bargain brand. everyday life. bring it with affordably priced bounty basic.
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megyn: several people wound up in the hospital after a flight to miami hit some major turbulence. it happened on an american airlines flight out of aruba. it had a half-hour to go before lands montgomery miami when it hit rough air. the shake was so bad people say they were flying out of their seats. >> i never felt something like
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that. basically with the noise and the bumps -- >> we thought we were going to die. >> it was scary. megyn: oh, my goodness. two flight attendants and three passengers taken to the hospital with minor injuries. no word on their condition. can you imagine? hot pursuit in the car chase capital of the country. california. a suspected child molester take off after telling police he wanted to kill himself. cops staying on his tail. his twuk swerving, then spinning around and hitting a tractor-trailer but the drama did not end there. trace gallagher picks up the story. >> reporter: this guy teaches physical education in three schools in l.a. county. he's accused of a lewd act
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against a teenage girl. he said he wanted to kill himself and that's which saw what happened. what the cop is doing is the pit maneuver. he goes up on the bumper. he slides beneath this tractor-trailer. there he is jammed into there. he starts the car and back he goes again. this lasted for 20 miles. police go back on the chase. la county helicopters all over the place. it's the lunch hour crowd. a lot of traffic on the street. look what happens next. the driver appears to just kind of steer himself right off the road. he goes up and over the embankment, airborne, bam, into one or two homes in palos verdes in the southern part of los angeles county. he was trapped in that car for
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30 minutes. he's under observation in a hospital. but as soon as he is okay, an is expected to live, they will charge him for those crimes. nobody else was hurt in all of that across l.a. county. megyn: as all of these drivers are reckless to the end with other people's safety. trace, thank you. $2 trillion pension crisis gripping so many u.s. cities. san bernardino, california is the latest victim after just approving a bankruptcy filing. residents there are scared. there is a question about how many cities in the united states are about to be hit by this same type of dire circumstance. it's not just california and cities in that state anymore. we'll have an expert panel here after the break to discuss it and tell you what you need to know. police raid a pastor's home and haul him off to jail.
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look at them coming in to arrest him for his bible study. really? that's in "kelly's court." >> we want to stand for our beliefs but for every believer in phoenix who want to host a bible study in their home that they can do it without the city coming in. and saying this has become a church. [ slap! slap! slap! slap! ] [ male announcer ] your favorite foods fighting you? fight back fast with tums. calcium rich tums goes to work in seconds. nothing works faster. ♪ tum tum tum tum tums
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>> another city in california is going down. and reorganization is bankruptcy. >> in all these years we have been here work for the city and enjoying city. now all of a sudden it comes to light after 16-20 years -- >> for two years we have been lied to. wow! megyn: that reaction from san bernardino, california which last night became the third city in that state to approve bankruptcy filings. one of the big issues is pensions. moody's saying there are $2 trillion in unfunded pension liabilities across this country. so how many more and bern difficult knows are there? joining me now, jordan goodman, a financial adviser and john halinko and melissa francis,
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host of "money." you know, we said before the break, i think these people from scare. they don't know what it means when their city files for bankruptcy. what will happen to public works. the firefighters. what is going to happen? >> the bankruptcy court will run the city. their pensions will be gone. they will not get paid. san bernardino has run out of money to make payroll. the workers won't stay around to see what happens. megyn: what does it mean when you file for bankruptcy as a city? >> it means you get out of the obligations. both sides say we came to the table -- megyn: take a cut on your pension. they go into bankruptcy it's like when the airlines went into bankruptcy when a major company goes into bankruptcy. then they are free from the obligations to pay somewhat. they still have an arbiter from
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the court to figure out what can be paid to whom. but san bernardino, you have a third of the population living bloat poverty line. at the same time you have city officials retiring with $100,000 and $200,000 in the mention. there is no money to pay for it. megyn: it's basically self-dealing about it city officials. so it's self dealing. when we sit across the table from one another. we have the same goal to help you mr. union member with your pension. it's not worth the paper it's print on. >> people are going bankrupt, companies are going bankrupt. it's the economy. any expenditure they have is a challenge when you don't have money. the reality is the big problem is to jump-start the economy. when can't be at 8.2% unemployment. >> there is no amount of revenue that can make up the gap.
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that's the point of the moody's report. at this point the gap has become $2 trillion. the economy. pension deficits are $2 trillion. if the question about that is how do we get to that point. it sounds like if you read this moody's report. they were doing funny math. who is doing the funny math? >> a 7% to 8% return. they will earn that and take that money and pay the pensions. they haven't been earning close to that. megyn: who makes 8% in today's market? >> i'll tell you who. they are calculating for private equity investments. they are saying we expect to make $2%, in the market but we'll make 15% by investing with private equity. but they think the average will be 8%. you would be surprised to see how many of these pension and teacher's funds are invested in
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private equity weevillify all the time. megyn: folks are interested in this, but if you are not in california does it affect you? is this coming to a city near you? >> reporter: individuals are going through bankruptcies. let's look at cycle of what happens when a city goes bankrupt it means they are not paying employees or they are slashing staff. that means those folks don't have income and they are not spend it. circle of misery is just continue going. they are not spending. so other companies start laying off people as well. no one wants to hear it but we need another stimulus and we need it now. >> that money comes from everyone else in a larger circle. >> it's no different from when you borrow. >> what happens today, scranton, just put all of its employees on minimum wage.
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megyn: that mayor, his alternative to reducing everybody's salary was i want to raise property taxes by 78%. right? the people are saying i don't think so, mr. mayor. why don't you work on a different solution. >> it's what happened in wisconsin. they had a recall election and the public saying i can't spend anymore. i can't pay higher taxes. megyn: let me do a reset. the states have mortgage cries sees. the property d mortgage crisis. the spending is down. so they are facing these financial problems. the question is how they get out of it now. can you just go start slashing pensions like we have seen in california? see you a some voter initiative.saying that's the way out. >> the only other option is go
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out and borrow more money. that's why what moody's is saying we are beating you to the punch. we are going to show people how much you owe and how you have no hope of getting there and we'll downgrade your credit rating. mood yims is sending the signal you have to make some serious cuts to the size of your government to the employees that you have and the pensions you have. megyn: if that's more layoffs for these cities, it's more jobless people. and less money in the economy. >> it blows me away. the idea of austerity now. what we need is to increase demand. consumer not expense it. corporations -- >> unleash businesses to hire -- >> they are not hiring. >> the psychological change -- megyn: the argument against the stimulus is it's fake it's a
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false sugar high they are going to give the cities and it's a temporary band-aid. >> throughout history it has worked. when you spend money in down times that jump starts the economy. we were talking about reagan before. what do you think happened in the early as it? the massive increase in defense spending. >> and confidence in business. the belief he wasn't going to stop business in their tracks. megyn: they are stuffing it in the mattress. >> businesses have money. >> the government needs to spend the money. >> megyn: got to leave it at that. a lot of cities with their hands out but there aren't that's people willing to pay anymore.
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money. melissa francis. 5:00 p.m. coming up a u.s. pastor is facing jail time and thousands in fines for holding a bible study in his home. look at the video. not this video, of the cops coming in to storm his house because of the old bible study. oh, wait, no, you haven't. that's next. >> we have the right as americans to gather on our property privately with our family and friends in the privacy of our home and that you cannot make us become commercial. [ male announcer ] this is rudy.
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megyn: court is back in session. a phoenix pastor ordered to spent 60 days in jim and find $15,000 for holding bible study in his house. they have been hosting bible studies in their home for years. last week police raid the house.
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city officials claim he was praying -- no, they say was violating building code laws and accused him of running an operation reminiscent of a home church without the proper permit. his sentence jail time and $12,000 fine. the city says this is about safety and respect of neighbors. he says his rights are being violated. >> as long as we are using the building for social or amusement or recreational purposes it was fine. but the moment we made it for the religious use it became a violation. >> the city has a obligation. delays liability. what happens if a fire breaks out and somebody gets hurt? megyn: joining me now, jonna spilbor and mercedes colwin. make the case for why the city thinks this is appropriate to go
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after this guy. >> there are building codes for a reason. it has nothing to do with individual freedom. we know you have the right to do this. but you have building codes for a reason. you have a structure, you have multiple people in that structure. god forbid there is a fire. where are the exit signs. where are these people going to go. you know when there is a fire people panic. they run around. they scurry around look for an opening to get out of the structure. that's a formal structure it's incredible how that structure -- i'm thinking it was a tent. you look like this, this looks like a mini church. megyn: it does, jonna. when i first heard this, i thought a guy got arrested for having bible study in his house. he placed a sign outside the property with the name of the church. there was a podium inside, folding chairs. he applied for property tax
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exemption as a church. it sounds like he was operating church, not just a bible study. >> there are good points and bad points on both sides. i can have 20 people in my house tomorrow for a tupperware party or book club or entertainment purposes. nobody is going to throw me in jail for 60 days. his argument is therefore why can't i read the bible as oppose of reading "50 shades of gray"? i think it's a great argument. the 9th circuit doesn't agree with them but it's a great argument. megyn: the city he loued him to build the structure. so how can they now come and say but you can't use it if you want to. >> it depends on what the structure is used for. if all he's doing is storing their 4 1/2 acres of lawn and storing their tools and what not, but you are talking about
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putting 20-30 people into that location. that just changes everything. because with that structure you have got building codes and it boils down to one word, safety. fit was a shed we wouldn't be talking about it. megyn: to what extent does it matter? the parking -- they are talking about maybe 20 people showing up. the parking. in defense of the city. the neighbors don't like that every week. 20 people crowding the grass and the area. i don't want that next to me. >> this was all good until a neighbor complained. but i think that argument goes along with this argument. if the 20-30 cars are not members of the public in general. they aren't saying come everyone to my church. they are saying my friend, my family by invitation are coming to my property, parking on my property, we are not making a lot of noise or doing anything
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wrong, then leave us alone. i think the fact that it's not open to the general public makes a difference. megyn: can i have 20-30 people over to my home for a party. certainly i can do that saturday night. so i can do it saturday. but then can do i that the next saturday and the next saturday and the one the after that and the one after that and my neighbors have to put up with the 20 cars in my driveway? >> that's a great point. that's the other issue. the neighbors are saying we have the right to live in peace. there are all these laws across the nation about having a peaceful existence when you have neighbors. but you have that type of distraction. and there are multiple individuals in that structure. the cars, the noise, that comes an issue. a random party, no problem. but a scheduled meeting week after week? that's where the problem starts. megyn: the practices of the community are relevant here.
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what is aloud and what isn't aloud and whether there is a targeting here based on religion is one of the questions that has been raids. i want to play this. >> it doesn't make sense. people are crowding our streets, other neighbors, but yet our people park all behind in our property and it makes no sense. why we are being targeted. megyn: she says the parking and irritation is not there. so why is it illegal for the city to go after them if this is about the religion, they don't want them doing this ridge practices in there. >> i think they have a great discrimination claim if this is about religion. because we have a first amendment argument there. but i also think speaking to mercedes' point, i don't think the code in phoenix gives a difference whether you are having your friends over every week and you want to play poker
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or you are having a religious organizational meeting. so maybe it code needs to be changed and that's going to take the winds out of their sails. megyn: he got a serious penalty for doing this. ladies, thank you. coming up, jealousy reers its ugly head. find out how a fight about the wildly popular book "50 shades of gray" wound one man in hot water.
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megyn: the best seller "50 shade of gray" causing a stir not just at home but abroad in england. a plan was so outraged that his girlfriend was reading the racy
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novel. when she refused to stop, he stormed over to her house and slapped her and threw brown saws in her face. they can see r-rated movies and drive cars but they cannot vote. now a group of teens in massachusetts work to get the voting age lowered from 18 to 17. >> reporter: these teenagers in massachusetts want to vote now. they want to vote when the school matters so much to them. they want to be able to pass on a legacy to the rest of their classmates even after they turned 18 and moved on to pursue other careers. take a listen. >> this is something we want to do and something that would be
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beneficial for us to start now to start off that whole civic habit thing. voaght is habit you'll. it would squash that culture of disengagement. this is something we want now. >> reporter: they are asking state leadership to allow them to vote in the municipal elections. they had to overcome some major constitutional concerns before this initiative could move forward. it has to be approved by state legislature and signed by the governor. then the measure comes back for a citywide * referendum in 2019. they say they are doing this for the next generation of seniors who deserve a greater say in their education and community. >> that's the idea of a grassroots political movement. you are encouraging others to follow your example. who know whereas this might lead. to quote president kennedy, the torch has been passed to another
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generation. >> reporter: they would like law makers to act about it end of the month. megyn: an update on an inspiring july 4 segment you saw here on "america live." the latest on our independence day effort to get these 14 severely wounded american hero into homes they need. asta. you could also cut corners by making it without 100% real cheddar cheese. but wouldn't be stouffer's mac & cheese. just one of over 70 satisfying recipes for one from stouffer's. ♪ i hear you... ♪ rocky mountain high ♪ rocky, rocky mountain high ♪ ♪ all my exes live in texas ♪
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♪ born on the bayou [ female announcer ] the perfect song for everywhere can be downloaded almost anywhere. ♪ i'm back, back in the new york groove ♪ [ male announcer ] the nation's largest 4g network. covering 2,000 more 4g cities and towns than verin. rethink possible.
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