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tv   FOX News Sunday With Chris Wallace  FOX News  July 22, 2012 11:00pm-12:00am PDT

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and thoughts with the victims and their loved ones in aurora, colorado, today. >> i'm chris wallace, the largest mass shooting in american history and there are still plenty of unanswered questions. ♪ >> what happened? why did the shooter do it? and is there any way to stop these massacres? we'll get the latest from the crime scene. and, we'll talk with senator dianne feinstein, a strong supporter of gun control and senator ron johnson, a gun rights advocate. then, civil war rages in syria. while the terrorist targets israeli tourists. we'll discuss the dangerous times in the middle east, with israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu.
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live only on fox news sunday and the campaigns call a brief truce in the wake of the colorado shootings. we'll ask our sunday panel if gun control will now become an issue in this election. all, right now, on fox news sunday. and hello, again from fox news in washington. we'll talk with our guests in a moment but first, the latest from aurora, colorado. authorities cleared the suspect's booby-trapped apartment. they are gathering evidence which includes 30 explosives devices and a computer hard drive. police say 12 people are dead, while 30 are still hospitalized. 7 of them in critical condition. 24-year-old james holmes is in solitary confinement and will be represented by a public defender when he is arraigned on monday. for more on all of this, including president obama's trip to colorado, today, let's bring in our fox news colleague, jon
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scott who was at the theatre where the attack occurred. jon? >> jon: we have new and eerie photos of the suspect, 24-year-old james holmes, that were posted through a dating web site. significant, because after new york city's police chief was briefed on what happened here, he told reporters that the shooter had dyed red hair and when arrested told officers he was the joker, a nemesis of the batman character and apparently the dye job photos were posted to the web site in the days immediately before the shooting. along with a question, will you visit me in prison? a couple of the clues police are looking at, right now. but, they also possess a mountain of new evidence, after successfully neutralizing the explosive threat inside holmes' apartment. [explosion [. >> jon: using small blasts they disabled a sophisticated booby-trap left behind in the suspect's home, a nest of trip-wires and flammable liquids
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and other devices designed, police say, to kill the first person through the door. and, then set a raging fire in the apartment. because the fire did not occur, investigators were able to comb through the place and last night we saw them bringing out potential evidence including a computer tower. police have said these attacks were planned for months. and, they will be scouring that computer for further confirmation. across this grieving community, memorials and vigils are now a daily occurrence. remembering the 12 dead, praying for the scores of wounded. president obama is visiting aurora, today, where he will meet with the victims' families, to grieve and, perhaps, offer words of comfort to the nation. jon scott, reporting from aurora, colorado. >> jon, thanks for that. joining to discuss what happened in colorado and whether there is any better way to protect americans from a twisted mind. senator dianne feinstein, a long time advocate of stricter gun control.
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and, senator ron johnson, a strong supporter of gun rights. senators, welcome back to fox news sunday. >> thank you, chris. >> good morning, chris. >> let's start with the big picture, senator feinstein, another case of someone slaughtering people on a college campus and a restaurant and now, a movie theatre. what are your thoughts? >> my thoughts are this: pure and simple: weapons of war don't belong on the streets. this is a powerful women. he had 100-round drum. this is a man who planned it, who went in and his purpose was to kill as many people as he could in a sold help out theatre. i think, you know, we have to sit down and really come to grips with what is sold to the average citizen in america. i have no problem with people being licensed, buying a firearm. but, these are weapons that you are only going to be using to kill people in close comcombat, that is the purpose of that
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weapon, you can put a hell-fire switch on it, you can fire semi-automatic very rapidly. the drum was huge, he had 100 bullets in it and he went out to quill k kill a lot of people. i think these weapons ought to be stopped. i think the sale and transfer, that is what my bill did for ten years, since my bill expired what happened... >> the assault weapons ban. >> the assault weapons ban, there were 46 2 instances, 650 people have been shot, 300 have died. of those 650. and, it is unnecessary. >> let me bring in senator johnson. the supreme court has spoke to the constitution and, this is what it says, americans have a right to bear arms but look at this case: does the suspect, james holmes, does he have a constitutional right to buy an ar-15 assault
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rifle, along with a magazine that holds 100 rounds, that makes it so easy to commit this kind of slaughter? >> first of all, chris, it is a horrible tragedy and our thoughts and prayers go out to all the victims in the community of aurora. the fact of the matter is, though, he's a sick and demented and evil individual and, unfortunately, i don't think society can keep sick, deminted individuals from obtaining any type of weapon to kill people. i mean, somebody who wants to purposely harm another individual is going to find a method of doing it and, you know, case in point. if he want to kill people in the theatre, what was the first thing he did? he walked in and threw incendiary devices and he could have made another kind of explosive. it isn't an issue about guns but it is an issue about sick, demented individuals and is a tragedy and i don't think there is a solution here in washington to solve the problem. >> i was going to ask you about that. i mean, is there anything that we as a society can do to protect ourselves from these kinds of twisted minds.
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>> unfortunately, i don't believe so. i mean, i wish there was. i wish i could wave a magic wand and make the tragedy go away and i wish i could wave a magic wand and pass a law to prevent something like this in the future but the fact of the matter is i really don't think there is, other than look to our families and look to our communities, and, certainly our educational system. we have to reinstill values in what we are teaching our children. >> shannon: senator feinstein you were a member of the san francisco board of supervisors back in 1978. when one of your former colleagues, and we have some of the horrific film here, one of your former colleagues shot and killed the mayor as well as fellow supervisor harvey milk and you have been a strong supporter of gun control since but most of your fellow democrats deserted you on the issue over the last 20 years. how come? >> it is a very hard issue, because the gun organizations go out to defeat people in states where they can. and they poor a lot of money in, and, some people lost office after they voted for the
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legislation before. but, you know, i have respect for senator johnson. but, let me say this: i believe people use these weapons because they can get them. i believe that a revolver, a rifle, a shotgun, isn't going to do the damage. it's the big clips. it is 100 rounds. you cannot get to them to dislodge the gun because he can fire so rapidly and has so many bullets. why do you need this? you don't need it for hunting. most states have limits on the number of bullets you can have on a clip. you don't need it for self-defense. why do you need it? why do we make it available. >> that is a very good question. let me... let me let the senator answer it. why do you need -- >> criminals will always be able to get -- >> wait. that is not the question. >> for example, you use the term
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assault rifles and you are talking about semi-automatic rifles that are used in hunting. in wisconsin, these are rifles people use in hunting. and, just the fact of the matter is, this really is not an issue of guns, again, we are talking about sick people, doing things that you simply can't prevent. it is really an issue of freedom. and, i... i want to note, defending the constitution, the second amendment guarantees the right to bear arms and these types of laws infringe upon that right and i don't agree with them. >> let me ask you, we are not talking about handguns. does something that would limit magazines that carry 100 rounds, would that infringe on the constitutional right. >> i believe so. people will talk about unusually lethal weapons and that could be potentially a discussion you can have but the fact of the matter is there, are magazines, 30-round magazines that are common, all over the place, you simply can't keep these weapons out of the hands of sick, demented individuals who want to do harm. and when you try and do it you
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restrict or freedoms. >> let me flip it around on you. i've heard more and more -- surprising number of people to me the last couple of days say the problem isn't too many guns, it is too few and if somebody in that theatre had been armed, they could have stopped the shooting and -- let me finish. stopped the carnage and taken down the shooter, and, defended themselves. do you agree with that. >> well that is certainly one of the rationale behind concealed-carry and criminals have to be concerned before they commit a criminal act and maybe somebody could stop them andis . if somebody, a responsible individual was carrying the weapon, maybe -- maybe -- they could have prevented some of those deaths. some of those injuries. that is the truth. >> and maybe you could have had a firefight and killed many more people. these are people in a theatre. this is a man... >> you had a massacre as it was with them undefended . >> that's right. because he had such a big clip. >> what if somebody had a gun and was able to stop him.
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>> i would be surprised if hunters if your state hunt with a 100-round ammunition, feeding devices. in the bill i did, we exempted 375 rifles and shot guns by name. so that no weapon used for hunting was affected at all. just the military-style of weapon. >> but the result of that ban, it didn't solve any problems. we have had bans here in washington, d.c. and bans in chicago and, you can hardly -- look at the statistics. the statistics. there is no measurable effect and you could argue it made matters worse. >> i disagree. >> i don't want to get into statistics. we are talking about basic freedoms, and the constitution, 2nd amendment and i am a strong defender and believer in that. >> i want to talk about the politics, and, back to you, senator feinstein, brady gun control program, named after
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james brady, shot after the assassination attempt in 1981 has given president obama an "f" for his failure to lead on this issue and friday, the day of the shooting, jay carney, the white house press secretary came out and said he was going to offer no new policies as a result of the shooting. are you pointdisappointed in th president. >> i hope there would be a sane, national conversation on guns, president bush said he supported the continuation of the assault weapons legislation. president obama, mr. romney, i think they should give it a lot of consideration, i think this is a bad time to bring forward the new subject and there has been no action because there is no outrage out there and people have not rallied forward and when i did the legislation, i had lloyd bentsen, secretary of
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the treasury standing with me, chiefs of police, police officers, sheriffs, because one out of five police officers is killed with an assault weapon. there was a tremendous amount of support and, even then, it was very tough. so it is a lot tougher now, because the gun organizations have become so strong. >> i'm going to give you the final word, senator johnson, are these massacres, horrible as they are and people who are looking for solutions, are they just a fact of life and death in america? >> well, i hate to say it but they probably are. and i understand senator feinstein has seen gun violence up close and personal and, i would hate to see a tragedy like this used as a motive or a political agenda to reduce america's freedoms, enough of our freedoms have been taken away and we don't want to lose anymore. >> we'll leave it there, senators, thank you very much for coming into discuss, unfortunately, another one of these terrible massacres. up next we'll talk with israeli
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prime minister benjamin netanyahu about the civil war in syria. and how his country will respond to that terror attack on israeli tourists.
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>> chris: with civil war raging in syria and, a terror bombing that killed five tourists, we're joined live from jerusalem by the prime minister of israel, benjamin netanyahu. mr. prime minister, welcome back to "fox news sunday." >> good to be with you, chris. >> chris: let's start with the civil war in syria. how much control does president assad have over his country at this moment?
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>> well, before i answer that, let me just offer my condolences on behalf of all of the people of israel to the bereaved families from the massacre in denver and to the entire american people. i think if there are any people on earth who empathize with the americans, at this time, it is the israelis, because we have been through so much of this and you have always stood by us in our hour of grief and we stand with you. now, you asked me about the -- does assad have control? look, i think the regime will go. i think it is a question -- i don't know fit is daif it is da weeks or months but i don't think it is sustainable and, i am concerned with what replaces it but i am more concerned with the... what could happen with the stocks of chemical weapons and deadly rockets and missiles when there is no government in syria. that is my principal concern. >> chris: let me follow up on
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that because your defense minister ehud barak said the other day that israel is prepared to seize control of those weapons if there is chaos in syria. how will you decide whether it is time for israel to intervene, cross the border into syria and seize those weapons? >> we hope we don't have to and i didn't necessarily -- we didn't necessarily consider seizing those weapons, there are other possibilities. but, i think this is a real problem. can you imagine hezbollah, the people who are conducting with iran, all of these terror attacks around the world, could you imagine that they would have chemical weapons? it is like al qaeda having chemical weapons. it is something that is not acceptable to us and not acceptable to the united states and to any peaceable country in the world. so i think that this is something we'll have to act to stop, if the need arises. and, the need might arise if
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there is a regime collapse and not a regime change. that is, you go into chaos and all of these sundry sites are left unguarded and hezbollah can come and get it or other terrorism groups can come and pick at it and that is of great concern to me, as i'm sure it is to the united states. >> chris: would you prefer that the united states and other western powers act to secure these weapons? or do you feel that israel is going to have to protect itself? >> i think this is a common concern. we have to see if there is a common action to address that concern. but, in any case, we certainly don't want to be exposed to chemical weapons falling into the hands of hezbollah or other terror groups because that is something that we can't be indifferent to. it is a great threat. we'll have to consider our actions, but do i preclude, do i
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seek action? no. do i preclude it? no. >> chris: let's turn, mr. prime minister, to the terrible terror bombing in bulgaria that killed five israeli tourists this week. have you been able to identify the bomber and have you been able to establish clear links between that bomber and hezbollah and iran? >> the answer is yes, to all of those questions. that is, certainly to hezbollah, yes, we do know... i mean, the whole world can see who it is. we do know that it is hezbollah. we would have known that -- you would have known or been able to surmise that, but what you know from cypress a week ago, a hezbollah operative was caught, preparing exactly the same attack. exactly the same attack. you know, going to an airport, to attack, collecting information for an impending attack on israeli tourists who get off the plane, and are about
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to board a bus. so, exactly the same modus operandi was exposed in cypress and, fortunately, there, the terrorist was caught. he admitted that he worked on behalf of hezbollah, iran's long terror arm as you know and that, you could have surmised intelligently from the proximity of these two events and the identical nature of the planned attack and the, cute attack. here, i'm not surmising. i am giving you something that i know as the prime minister of israel because i know, based on absolutely rock-solid intelligence, that this is hezbollah and this is something that iran knows about, very, very well. >> chris: you say we all know who the bomber was, yes, we have seen a picture of the bomber. but do you know, specifically, his identity. >> that is being pieced together right now. but we knew with absolute
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certainty, absolute certainty... and not a shred of doubt, that this was a hezbollah operation. >> chris: if i may ask, sir, if i may -- because, there is a question on the part of the obama administration, can you give us any of that evidence? hard evidence? >> we certainly give it to the appropriate agencies. friendly agencies in the world. >> chris: you have called this an iranian terror attack and said israel will respond with force. will the retaliation be linked to israel's possible action to stop iran's nuclear program or are those two separate matters, retaliation for the response, the terror attack, and, any action that you might take to stop iran's nuclear program? >> you just asked me several questions, let me put them into context. i'll answer each one as best as i can. first is the context of the unfolding terror attacks that
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have taken place over the last two years, led by iran, sometimes using -- very often using hezbollah, its terror proxy from lebanon, which it arms and funds and equips and so on and, instructs, by the way. so what they have done over the last two years and increasingly in the last year and increasingly in the last few months is to either carry out attacks, most of which have been foiled, or, lay the ground, the foundations for future attacks, in five continents, in about 24 countries, that we count, and the numbers actually might be bigger, and, that is a worldwide terror campaign, directed at us, but, often including others. for example, there was an iranian attack, planned attack, on the saudi ambassador to the united states. they might have well carried -- taken away several senators with them and they don't particularly care.
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very brazen. how can iran be doing this and getting away with murder? literally? it is because nobody named and shamed them and, the reason i'm on this problem, right now, mike, is to name and shame. because, iran is using terror the way anybody uses terror. you use it in stealth and you hide behind somebody else in order not to be given responsibility for these heinous acts. and, the same is done with hezbollah. well, we now have five iranians in custody. we have two iranians -- two hezbollah operatives, i believe in custody, some of them were found with explosives, across a myriad of countries. and it is them. we know it. and, it is time for all countries to point the finger at the country behind these attacks, and the group that helps them. and, that is iran. with iran's proxy, hezbollah. that is the first thing you have to do, expose those who stand behind her and the second is the
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question that you asked is, exactly the price for terrorism. because terrorism continues, as long as terrorism pays and, we have to make sure it doesn't pay and exposure is this first think to make sure it does not pay and the attack on a busload of tourist including a pregnant mother tells you what kind of people we are dealing with. imagine these people who are capable of doing anything, imagine them possessing nuclear weapons. people who gun down innocent people, will send suicide bombers, who could block the straits of... in iran and, annihilate israel and murder diplomats and taken over your embassy, you want these people to have atomic bombs? i think this is a reminder, this wave of terror attacks, that the world's most dangerous regime must not be allowed to have the world's most dangerous weapons.
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>> chris: the question is this: you have the united states and the allies working with the regime to try to make a deal to stop the nuclear program. if they stop the nuclear program, would you be satisfied with a deal that leaves this regime, leaves the mullahs in power? is that good enough? >> yes, stop the program. but, so far, all of these talks, this is -- this round of talks the last few months followed the previous round of talks. that has not stopped the regime one bit. not an inch. i mean, since the previous rounds of talks, they have enriched material for five nuclear bombs. five nuclear bombs. that is 70% of the enriched material they need which is low grade uranium enriched. and they are continuing to enrich with one bomb, they are getting very close to the 20%, the higher enrichment, necessary to get 90% of the way to the first bomb. so, they are basically thumbing
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their nose at the international community, the leading powers that are called p-5-plus-1 and they say we can talk, we can delay, deceive and while we are continuing, to race towards atomic weapons. so that is effectively what is happening. >> chris: presidential candidate mitt romney travels to israel next week. you have known each other since 1976. when you both worked for the boston consulting group and he said you two almost speak in shorthand because you have such a close relationship. he has promised to do exactly the opposite of president obama when it comes to security in the middle east. do you understand what that means? >> well, you are not going to draw me into your politics, bee enough of mine. we can exchange notes about my politics if you want off camera but i will not be drawn into that. i will say this: president obama has said iran must not be allowed to develop nuclear weapons and that he said
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containment is not an option and israel must have the capacity to defend itself by itself, against any threat. well, these are obviously principles that i agree with. and, i think that the -- it is in our common interest to make sure that iran doesn't get nuclear weapons, but, you know, the jury is out. on all of this. the real thing, the real question is, is not stated policy but actual results on the ground. >> chris: briefly, what do you think of mitt romney and what do you think of his trip to israel? >> i think that you are far too wise as a journalist to think that i am going to get into your field of american politics, but i will say that i will receive mitt romney with the same openness that i received another presidential candidate, senator -- then senator barack obama, when he came, almost four years ago. almost the same time in the
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campaign, to israel. israel has enjoyed bipartisan support, both democrats and republicans and we extend bipartisan hospitality to both democrats and republicans. >> chris: well you are a skilled interviewee and i'll tell you you have two minutes for the final answer. israel always lived in a tough neighborhood. no question about that but at least it was stable and you knew who assad was and his father and mubarak. when you look at the changing landscape, in the middle east, now, is the so-called arab spring good for bad for israel? >> well, the question is what kind of season is this? because, in fact, what is happening is that there has been a tide -- mostly, not all, some exceptions, for example, in libya, a welcome change, a welcome exception but in general there has been this cascade of
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islam is regimes that conduct the first election but you aren't sure about the next election and what is in between, because democracy, real democracy is not particularly well-known here and not particularly observed and if we had that we'd have nothing to fear, because it would be good for peace and would reflect the needs of all the people. i can't tell you where the middle east is going. probably the years of stability, the decades of stability that we had with egypt, you can't guarantee that they'll continue. i appreciate the fact that the united states demands or expects as we do that the peace treaty will be maintained. syria, i know that iran and hezbollah, who are supporting syria, including the act of killing, really don't want to see a regime change and who knows what will happen when that
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happens but i can tell you this, mike... the middle east is unstable because it doesn't have the political philosophy of liberal democracy that would underpin the arab spring. so, we may be in for a rougher ride and we'll have to rough it out and be very strong, very resolute and, very, very steady. i think we'll be all right. >> chris: mr. prime minister, thank you so much for talking with us. you probably don't realize you mistakenly called me "mike" a couple of times in the interview and i want to say he did many interviews with you over the years and, let me say, these days it warms my heart. so, thank you very much. always good to speak with you, sir. >> it is the passing of a generation, and something i have experienced, too, so forgive me, i hope i have not offended you. >> chris: no, not at all and as i'm, i am sorry about the loss of your father, as well. prime minister, thank you and please come back. >> thank you. >> chris: up next, that horrific
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movie theatre rampage in colorado. we'll talk with our sunday group about the shootings and whether anything can be done to try to stop these massacres. these fellas used capital one venture miles for a golf getaway. double miles you can actually use... but mr. single miles can't join his friends because he's getting hit with blackouts. shame on you. now he's stuck in a miniature nightmare. oh, thank you. but, with e capital one venture card... you can fly any airline, any flight, any time. double miles you can actually use. what's in your wallet? alec jr? it was a gift.
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a great guest rating. >>and save big. >>thanks negotiator. wherever you are. ya, no. he's over here. >>in the refrigerator? >> if you think we are angry we sure as hell are angry. what is happening to our city and to these wonderful people who live here and also what he threatened to do to one of our police officers... >> chris: aurora police chief dan oates who is leading the investigation into the movie theatre massacre, showing his emotions, saturday. and it is time for our sunday group, bill kristol of the weekly standard. former democratic senator evan byah. fox news analyst liz cheney and kirsten powers of the daily beast web site. with all of the around-the-clock, 24 hour coverage of this terrible event. it is still important to keep it in context. and let me put up stats. for than a billion movie ticket were sold in north america, last
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year. less than 1% of homicides involved five or more victims and it stayed below that rate for decades, having said all of that bill what are your thoughts about the rampage. >> i don't think i have any original thoughts but i was struck by the act of heroism, by three young men who have saved, in each case their girlfriend or fiancee's lives by pushing them down and covering them and in each case lost their own lives and, it seems to be chair risk of early of these acts. and, the person who barred the door, at columbine and let the students escape. so that is heartening, in what is a terrible story. >> chris: it understandably reignited the debate on gun control and i want to pick up what i discussed with senators feinstein and johnson.
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some gun rights activists say the answer is not fewer guns but more. if somebody else in the theatre had been armed, he could have stopped the shooting. your reaction. >> that is possible but, whether everyone in the theatre was armed or not, tragedy like this are bound to occur from time-to-time and it's not human nature to acknowledge that but that is the likelihood. we have 300 million handguns and firearms in the country and people who are dedicated will find them and with the assault represents ban in place, i don't think there was a perceptible decline in shooting incidents and, finally there is not the political support for voting things that will affect the problem at the margins and the senators touched upon that a little bit. i remember bill clinton mentioning prominently following the 1994 debacle for the democratic party in his opinion it was not the tax increase or the health care bill that failed or even the controversial gays in the military, what cost the
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democrats most seats was the gun control act in the purple and red areas of the country and it's a tragedy and unlikely a lot can be done about it. >> chris: liz, is that why democrats seem to have gone missing on the issue of gun control? and i was struck by the fact that more a liberal president, jay carney came out the day of the shooting and said there will be no new policy. >> there is no republican support so you will not get... >> chris: what surprises me is how little democratic support. >> the reason the president didn't say anything about it, channelling what clinton said, when you look at southern ohio and northern florida, iowa, the places that will be swing areas in the presidential election, congressional election it is a bad issue for democrats and the moderate democrats find themselves in the position of, do they sacrifice themselves for a bill that probably will not have much impact and means when they lose they will not be able to do anything on health care or the environment or the other issues they care about, there is not political support for doing anything.
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>> chris: liz, can one support the right to bear arms and still question whether somebody like james holmes obviously disturbed, is able to get a semi-automatic rifle and a magazine that can carry 100 rounds. >> i think senator evan byah is exactly right. there is a human instinct to say what is the solution and the immediate answer and, you know, if you look for example at what happened in chicago, president's home town, it is the murder capital of the country right now and some of the strongest gun control laws in the country. so, you know, restricting the rights of individual americans to bear arms is not the answer here. and, you know, i think we all look at this and understand what a huge tragedy it is and, because we are in a presidential campaign year, the inclination is to move medially to the politics of it and should we argue about gun bans and no gun bans and we have seen gun bans are unconstitutional according
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to the supreme court and ineffective and we need to do a better job of being able to find and identify the kinds of behavior, potentially, that might indicate somebody has a propensity to snap, so in this instance, look at this guy's background and record there seems to be very, very little that would have led anybody to anticipate he could have done this kind of horrific act. >> chris: kirstin i want to ask about the politics but first the substance, do you agree that this -- there is no sign that gun control works. >> no, i don't and when people say, the assault weapons ban didn't work because the assault weapons ban had too many loopholes and only banned new assault weapons and not old ones and there were other loopholes people could get through and i ask people if you are sitting in a movie theatre and -- your only choices, he can walk in ate say emmy automatic weapon with a magazine with 100 rounds on it or walk in with a handgun or hunting rifle. which will you choose? it is fairly obvious, the reason
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you are able to mow down all the people is because you have a semi-automatic weapon and you know who else is against the assault weapons, the police departments all across the couny.tr they are dangerous for them. it is hard for them when there is a firefight with somebody who has a semi-automatic weapon. so, the idea that a criminal will always get it, well, we banned machine guns. i mean, we do have limits on our freedoms. and, i think that this is a reasonable place to put it, is to say, you can't have a gun that -- that you can walk around with, with 100 rounds on it. >> but in this case, this theatre, in fact, according to several news reports did have rules in place against carrying weapons into the theatre and i think that is where you need to think about, you know, on one level you can say, there should be these rules, and they are unconstitutional in my view but i think you really have to ask the hard question, whether a rule like this, whether a piece of legislation would stop somebody bent on mass murder. >> you think it is unconstitutional to -- should someone be able to own anything the military can get their hands
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on, is that unconstitutional. >> i think the supreme court has spoken about the individual right to bear arms and i think that what you have to balance here is the state's interest in ensuring the safety of its citizens and upholding the constitution and when, in fact, i think that it is unrealistic to believe that legislation will stop for example the gangs in chicago from getting ahold of weapons or stop... >> i agree but i don't think that is what we are talking about here. we are talking about -- >> let me pick up on the other side of it now. the politics, because i think you would agree, 15 or 20 years ago, democrats would have been all over the issue and would have been demanding stricter gun control and my guess is at that time a president in the white house would have joined those demands. as we saw president obama has not and i want to put up perhaps one of the reasons: the "gallup poll" found in 1991, 78% of americans supported stricter gun control legislation
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and now that is down by 44%, is it right the democrats gave up on gun control. >> the abc news poll says 49% say, protect gun rights and 44%, say stricter gun controls and, that is four points. >> chris: 80% and now 40%. >> that is fine but, there is a very simple reason the democrats are not supporting senator feinstein, bless her hard... >> chris: which is. >> the nra, the gun control organizations she kept referring to are called the nra and they own the congress, they own the republicans and the democrats cower in fear of them. >> chris: the last word. >> i'm... kirsten, the reason there is a change -- 1968, when bobby kennedy was assassinated, they controlled handguns and, people have a right to handguns and hunting rifle and i don't think we have a right to semi -- quasi-machine guns, to shoot 100
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bullets at a time and i think the democrats are being foolish, as they are being cowardly. i think it is more support for moderate gun control if they separate it clearly from a desire to take away everyone's handguns or hunting rights. >> chris: all right, good luck with that, bill. >> i'm giving helpful advice to people and you can put more pressure on moderate republicans, it is not as if republicans from new york an illinois and california couldn't be -- president obama didn't couldn't do what president clinton did in the '90s and put pressure on them and president obama on this is unwilling to take a strong stance. >> chris: we have to take a break, you are stealing from yourself in the next segment! when whee come back, where the shooting in colorado leaves the shooting in colorado leaves the presidential race. [ male announcer ] if you had a dollar for every dollar car insurance companies say they'll save yoby switching, you'd have like, a ton of dollars. but how are they saving you those dollars? a lot of companies might answer "um" or, "no comment." then there's esurance. born online, raised by technology, and majors in efficiency.
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>> i stand before you today, not as a man running for office. but as a father and grandfather, a husband and an american. >> president barack obama: there will be other days for politics. this, i think, is a day for prayer and reflection. >> chris: president obama and governor romney putting politics aside to focus on the victims of the terrible shooting in colorado and we are back now with the panel. well, bill, the white house has announced that after the trip today to colorado the president is going on tomorrow to the veterans of foreign wars convention in nevada. does that mean the political truce is over and we are back to the nasty back and forth that we saw before colorado? >> yes. i suppose so. we -- watching those clips, i was struck by how much more attractive that is, when they are being less political and i say it seriously, less political and less petty and, here's a gotcha quote and now i'll obsess about it the next 3-4 days and
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they would be wise to step back and say are we really running an intelligent campaign and it is uninspiring and, generally depressing as an american citizen to watch the campaigns so far and is it wise to be petty and negative in the kinds of campaigns their running. >> chris: senator, to the campaigns they are running, and, president obama has been hammering mitt romney, for refusing to release tax returns. >> makes you wonder if some years he paid any taxes at all. we don't know, because, romney released just one full year of his tax returns. and, won't release anything before 2010. >> you know what? i put to the as much as we're going to put out... >> what is mitt romney hiding. >> chris: is that a good issue for the obama campaign. >> it is a helpful issue, chris, and i should point out our friend, bill kristol has also hammered mitt romney to release his tax returns and you do if you can and it raises the question, there must be something they don't like and my
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guess it is more of the same that mraplays into the narrativ obviously, bank account overseas... >> chris: is there anything wrong with that. >> the american people get that and does it bother some in the middle class and they've already processed that and i don't think it is dispositive but comes back to the 4 or 5%, undecided, in the swing states to the economy and is there unexpected data the next three months probably not and if not it comes down to the debates and they need to elevate that are game and who can present the plausible case, they can create jobs and grow the economy and fuel the people's aspiration of a better america. it will be critical as the ones between jimmy carter and ronald reagan, when ronald reagan crossed the threshold and people look at -- i'm not saying mitt romney will -- but people looked at him as a plausible president. >> chris: what do you think. >> washington as usual. the president's opposition researchers have run out of material to use as a distraction. from the returns that have been
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released. and want more returns released. i think everybody around the table, even bill, seems to have gone squishy on this this morning, would... >> chris: even bill? >>... would admit that -- >> we'll talk after the show. >> there will never be enough, no matter how many years of returns the governor releases. >> chris: he should say, no. >> i think he is good where he is, frankly and the obama administration's focus on this, is because they don't want to have to talk about the economy and don't wanted to have to talk about the the fact the president doesn't believe if you have a small business or any kind of business you built it yourself and don't want the american people to actually look at the failed record and failed policies. >> chris: kirsten, let's pick up on that. mitt romney has tried despera desperately to get off defense and, talked about the president, you didn't build your own business and let's look at romney on the stump:
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>> in the last six months, he has held 100 fund-raisers. and, guess how many meetings he has had with his jobs council? none. zero. >> chris: how effective is that for romney. >> good. he needs to focus on the jobs issue. and i think he needs to focus on what obama does, regarding jobs and what his record is, regarding jobs. and, in terms of the tax return issue, i am afraid i'm agreeing with bill again, to confirm, he is being a squish this morning but i think that he does need to release the tax returns. and, it does look suspicious if he doesn't. however, in the end, i don't think there are many people who wouldn't vote for mitt romney because he didn't release the tax returns, versus people who might not vote for him if something is in there that really bothers them. >> chris: there is no indication that it will be anything other than, yes, he invested in tax shelters. >> or he paid very, very, very low tax which is offensive when
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they look at the tax rates they play... >> chris: no american wants to pay more taxes than they have to. >> but he's not somebody who thinks there is a problem with it and he said, look this... >> chris: americans -- are there americans who say they are not paying enough taxes. >> i have a problem with the fact someone as wealthy as him is paying a 15% tax rate. >> chris: he isn't the president -- he was paying what he owed. >> if he comes out and say yes, that this is what i paid and this is all that is required of me but i will change it. >> chris: at this point, i looked, four years ago, you came on this panel and you said, mccain should and will pick sarah palin as his running mate, and i phrase this carefully, when you look into your "kristol" ball -- and i should trademark that. >> very effective, i'll become as rich as mitt romney with
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that! >> chris: who do you see and when will they -- he announce it? >> i think he'll announce the pick after he gets back from this trip he's taking to london, israel and poland and probably announce it the week after he's back, so august 6th or 7th, i would say. you should be ready to come in early, to fox that morning. >> chris: okay. >> provide commentary. >> chris: and... >> i think he should pick someone young and exciting and forward looking and run a young, forward looking and exciting pain, and that would be paul ryan, marco rubio, chris christie, and i think he'll make a safer pick, maybe rob portman, from ohio or tim pawlenty. >> chris: the cheneys know something about vice presidential searches, who should he pick. >> based on the cheney record it will be bess meyers. >> chris: and, we should explain that -- anyway. thank you, panel, see you next weak. don't forget to check out panel plus where our group picks up
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with the discussion on our web site. she was ready for that, foxnews.com and we'll post the video before noon eastern time and, be sure and follow us on twitter, up next, a look at the heroism and the savagery in aurora, colorado.
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>>. >> chris: the washing post ran chart saturday of the deadliest u.s. shooting. massacre in aurora ranked ninth. if the attacks have been routine over the years. one good thing we are still shocked and outraged when one of our fellow citizens acted so savagely. we leave you now with some of the sounds and images of the rampage and the response in colorado and we'll see you next
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fox news sunday. >> we in the auditorium have multiple victims. >> i've got a child victim. i need rescue at the backdoor of the theater now! >> is on the south side, there is somebody with a gas mask. >> we were on the scene and immediately arrested the suspect in the back of the zbleert there were explosions behind me. we thought was a practical joke. >> we heard something going off. >> we moved outside and thankfully several young men from the military helped us tremendously. >> i need make sure, i lost the rest of my family.

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