tv Greta Van Susteren FOX News July 23, 2012 7:00pm-8:00pm PDT
this is about their family and their future and their loss of wealth. we'll see. good to see you. >> sean: as always. that is all the time we have left. greta is in colorado to go on the record. greta, take it away. >> greta: bizarre look at the accused mass murder in the movie theater massacre. >> you have the right to be represented by an attorney if you could not afford one under statutory guidelines at no cost to yourself. it must be voluntarily and not under coercion. typically you have a right to be advised of the charges. you have a right to be advised of the charges. they made a preliminary determination of probable cause you committed the offense of first-degree murder which is a class one felony under colorado law. ordinarily individuals are
entitled to bail, given the nature of the charges you are currently being held on a no bond hold. you shall refrain from contacting directly or communicating with the victims, shall not possess firearms or other weapon. shall not possess alcoholic beverages or controlled stalks and further order of court, you are not to commit any new offenses. miss pearson, if you would approach please. due to the nature of the charges and likely voluminous pleadings i'm entering a case management order. i am crafting my own, 3.6 and 3.8. >> court file has been sealed. >> you may.
>> greta: tonight we are live in aurora, colorado and james holmes dressed in a jail jumpsuit made his first appearance. he never out eared word. it was a strange scene inside the courtroom. for more on that, brandon from the aurora sentinel joins us. take me through it. >> what most people were struck by his of various colors, the orange hair, another shade of red on his pants. orange sandals it was a unique scene. once he sat down. he never opened his mouth. he never seemed to acknowledge anything. >> greta: did he seem to look around the courtroom? >> i don't think so. i think he had his eyes on the judge and that was about it. he didn't look at the victims or anything like that. >> greta: what about the victims in the courtroom. who were they if you know and was there reaction? >> there was a handful of families of the deceased.
they were surrounded by several victims from around the state. they brought them in from various different agencies. there was one man who i assume was the father of deceased who was staring throughout the entire hearing. i don't think he took his eyes off for a second. no one said anything. >> greta: what about the judge? >> he is the chief judge here. he doesn't have the heaviest of case loads. he has a lot of other duties that oversees the other judges. yet he certainly been here a long time. he has been chief judge for six years. >> greta: has there been any talk, do you know what holmes has been doing since he was arrested inside the jail. was he under any medication, under a suicide watch, anything like that? >> he is under segregation.
as for medication. that was the first question the local district attorney. she said she couldn't answer that. he appeared to be sedated or something like that during the hearing today. >> greta: what struck me is the fact he was sitting in the jury box and not next to his lawyer. is there any explanation for? >> that i same it was something to do with security. by sitting there he was couple feet away from the door. he was arm's reach of one of the deputies sitting there and he was substantially further away from the victims' families. >> greta: if was there trial going on, there is more security. >> i think they add some security. chain defendants to the tables there. i don't know if they want to take those steps for this early in the hearing. >> who is his lawyer? >> his lawyer, name escapes me now. daniel king who is a local death
penalty attorney. he handled most recently here in aurora a person that is on death row. >> greta: there was a woman seated next to holmes in the jury box, who was that? >> that is tamara brady. both of them are from the state office. they handle death penalty cases all over the state. >> greta: his lawyer was sitting at the defense table. she did not seem to be included in the conversation? >> i didn't see him say anything to any in anybody. i noticed mr. king with a went about a to the back and i assume he was able to chat with him briefly then. i didn't see any conversation during the hearing. >> greta: any idea the lawyers got to know him? >> i assume they did. i think it was friday the lawyer they said he was assigned to was
a local one, from the public defenders office. they immediately assign them to them until they get their lawyer. >> the d.a. at the press conference she will be the d.a. until late fall. >> election in the fall she will be d.a. until january until the new one is sworn in. >> greta: she is term limited out. she is not quitting. >> she is term limited out. >> greta: thank you. this is not a who done it. james holmes was arrested right outside the movie theater like he was waiting for the police. his apartment was rigged with explosives. evidence seems overwhelming. what strategy could defense be planning? michael cardoza is in san francisco an bernie and ted williams is in washington. let's say he is your client. where do you begin? >> you see him at jail. number two, very important,
right out of block, you need to have a psychiatrist see him immediately. number three, you tell him from now on i'm doing the talking. don't open your mouth anymore. >> greta: what did you think looking at him on the video. what was your thoughts? >> my first thought was the joker from the movie. the way his hair is. that certainly will play into the defense because the only choice they have here is to enter a not guilty by reason of insanity plea. the first step here will be to see if he is able to stand trial can he help his trial counsel to prepare the trial? if he can they move forward, they enter the not guilty by reason of insanity plea and we go from there. >> greta: ted, look the guy gets caught outside with the goods. he's got all these eyewitnesses. worst crime. he has destroyed so many lives. people are in the hospital
critically injured. it's the absolute most incredible atrocity. how do you represent him? >> well, you do just what i think michael and bernie has said. first thing you definitely want to do is try to get the very best psychiatrist you can find. there is did i could the any between competency and using the insanity defense. first thing you want to deal with the competency situation. can he participate in his own defense. if he it is found he is not able to, they will have to put him in a mental institution until he can participate then they will move to the insanity defense. that is the only way they can go in this case. >> greta: what is the point, insanity defense, guilt phase and you have the insanity phase. can you tell me the point of a defense attorney going through the guilt phase when the evidence is so overwhelming, why
not stipulate ui late to the evidence. that is the only option at this point on the table? >> for tactical reasons would you stick to the evidence and move forward with insanity. some lawyers believe take two bites of the apple. you get to have the trial on the mertsd. is he the guy that is shot. can somebody identify him. once that happens you are found guilty then i take another shot at it. i don't like that because the jury is too insulting to the jury. you are essentially saying for my next trick i'll pull a rabbit out of hat. >> greta: we are speculating about the weird eyes and movement. he looked sort of odd. your thoughts on the eye stuff, an act, a drug, a direction from his lawyer? >> i don't think this is all an act.
as horrific as it was, we all know there is something mentally wrong with him, but will it hold up under defense of not guilty by reason of insanity? of course not, the emotion of this case, there is no juror that i know of that would find him not guilty by loan of insanity. they know if he is found not guilty by reason of insanity, what happens is then she put into a mental hospital. when i was prosecuting a number of years ago, a person got out because the doctor said, he is fine now after being found not guilty by reason of insanity two-. two days later he commits a murder, i tried him again for that murder, there were five psychiatrists that testified that said he was insane. the jury came back sane. they wouldn't take the chance that person would ever get out of the hospital again. people want him in prison.
the big question will be, will they impose the death penalty on him? >> greta: late today we heard from holmes' mother. family attorney read a statement from her. >> this statement is to clarify a statement made by abc media, i was awakened by a call from a reporter from abc on july 20th about 5:45 in the morning. i did not know anything about shooting at that time. he asked if i was arlene holmes and my son was james holmes who lives in aurora, colorado. i said yes, you have the right person. i was referring to myself. i asked him to tell me why he was calling. he told me about a shooting in aurora. he asked for comment.
i told him i could not comment because i did not know if the person he was talking about was my son. i would need to find out. >> greta: who wants to talk more to the parents, the defense or the prosecution and what are they going to ask? >> i think that both sides certainly are going want to talk to the parents. one of the things that i want to know from the parents is what kind of a psychological psychiatric record that this guy may or may not have had through thinks childhood and adulthood. this abc reporter may have caught this woman by surprise. i'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. when she said i think you have the right person. the answer we want to draw, the inference we want to draw is
that he lunatic. >> greta: i think the statement was made both ways when you are awakened in the middle of the night. i same they bothunderstood each other. bernie, in colorado the ones you raise the insanity defense, then the prosecutor has the burden of proof to proving insanity. that used to be standard until hinkley and he was found by guilty pie by reason of insanity and federal government changed the standard. is that statute much easier standard for the defense? >> yeah, if you are a defendant, if i'm representing a client. i had two other cases under the older statute. does your client know right from wrong. it's essentially a lot more complicated than that. as a result of the mental disease or defect does your
client know right from wrong. do they know right from wrong and because of e disease he can't stop himself anyway, it's a very hard standard to meet. debts who try to win it by not guilty by reason of insanity, 3% win. >> greta: michael, you can be a little weird but not insane legally, right? >> absolutely because as bernie said, you did they know right from wrong. i guarantee the prosecutor in this case will go into the preparation actually holmes went through, how he came into the theater. how he propped the door open. there is no way, circumstantially he did know right from wrong. this case is going to be about for the defense, you talk to the family and you try to save his life. that is the best. >> greta: gentlemen, thank you. straight ahead, were their warning signs week know one
person spotted him. a gun range owner thought holmes was bizarre. and 58 people still recovering from injuries. some of the 58 with very uncertain futures. some are telling their horror stories of what went on inside the theater. you will meet two young girls. they made it out alive. everyone wants to know what james holmes was like days leading up to the massacre. that is coming up. the twenty billion doars bp committed has helped fund economic and environmental recovery. long-term, bp's made a five hundred million dollar commitment to support scientists studying the environment. and the gulf is open for business - the beaches are beautiful, the seafood is delicious. last year, many areas even reported record tourism seasons. the progress continues... but that doesn't mean our job is done. we're still committed to seeing this through.
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>>. >> greta: movie theater massacre shocking the entire destination naeg. were their red flags about the subject in james holmes applied for a membership for a private gun range. the owner said he saw several signs that he was creepy and strange. nice to see you glenn. he applied to join you your club on june 25? >> he did an online application. we read the application and looked at it and make a phone call to see if they come to orientation and meet him and see who they are. >> greta: you make the phone call yourself? >> yes. >> greta: when did you call him after june 25?
>> next day. >> greta: and? >> all i ended up was his voice mail, it was very bizarre gutteral deep rambling undistinguishable, bizarre mess. is the way to put it. >> greta: did you think you had the right number? >> i had doubts. one of the words was james and message. so, okay, it must be right. maybe its joke. so i left my message and wait until the next day. >> greta: did he call back the neck day? >> no. i called back. third day, besides bizarreness of message, here in denver we have a shortage of shooting ranges. when i call somebody and leave a message, i'm calling about the application. they usually call me back in two hours wanting to know. or i get 90% of calls in the first day.
>> greta: his message didn't change? >> no. >> were there any other words you could make out in the message? >> it was a real bizarre message. i didn't try hard to understand it. it was just enough to say, what is going on? this is bizarre to send me an e-mail that you want to join. don't call and have something like this on your phone. >> greta: did he say anything else like this is a weirdo. day of orientation that if this guy is not scheduled to be here, if he shows up sit him down and get me. don't process until i talk to him. >> greta: do you ever see people personally like that? >> we end up talking to most of the people. no, i don't flag them that way on a regular basis because there is no reason. i met them personally and know who they are. this one i never did. >> greta: when you listen to the call, was it like it was so
obviously weird? >> it was a deep gutteral kind of rolling, somebody deliberately trying to do something. i had no clue what it was. >> greta: was it a long message? >> longer than the average. about three-quarters of a minute. >> greta: when what did you think when he got arrested for the shooting? >> i saw what was going on. i had a staff member call me. hey, remember the james holmes you said you flagged, i said why? she said, they just said that was the name of shooter. i pulled the form. based on where some of reporters were and i said, yep, that is him. i thought thank you lord for not getting us in the middle of this. >> greta: you never saw the guy. >> not until i saw the picture. first time i saw his picture of high school year book.
>> greta: and he never called back? >> no, he never called back other than that. my wondering question is real simple, where did he get the money to buy the equipment and stuff that he bought in two months. we're talking about $6,000 to $8,000 worth of stuff. >> greta: thank you. stories of bravery, people of strangers helping friends, two young girls who were determined to survive. hours before the shooting, a neighbor says she saw james holmes running into his apartment. what else did she see. you will hear coming up. all just $14.99. come into red lobster and sea food differentl visit redlobster.com now for an exclusive $10 coupon. good through august 5th for an exclusive $10 coupon. good afternoon. chase sapphire. (push button tone) this is stacy from springfield. oh woah. hello? yes. i didn't realize i'd be talking to an actual person. you don't need to press "0," i'm here.
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>>. >> greta: 12 people murdered and 58 others wounded and survivors are telling their stories. what was it really like inside that movie theater. >> you need some help? everybody got it? >> greta: bonnie and elizabeth were two of lucky ones. bonnie case was shot in the leg. griff jenkins spoke with the two friends in the hospital. >> bonni a was with her two friends heading back to
louisiana. you stopped off for a movie. tell me what happened elizabeth? >> well, we decided that we were going to see the premiere of batman. we got in the car and drove there. got in the theater. it was packed. we thought about sitting lower and saw empty seats and moved up there. about 15 minutes into the movie. we saw what looked like smoke bomb. i thought some ridiculous kid has a smoke bomb. i thought it was firecrackers and then you heard people shrieking and running and heard it continue to fire. this is something serious. bonnie pulled a he down and we were down on our knees and praying, save us and protect our lives. there was kind of a moment when it stopped. we were thinking, do we run, is he going to shoot us again?
we're going to make ourselves targets. we ran up and i didn't even realize she was injured. she hadn't said anything. literally we stepped out of the aisle she was just pushed back. i couldn't get to her. i saw her stumble and somebody pushed her. we made it out and she was leaning on somebody. i said are you okay and she was okay. i tried to help her and went to the car, i can't make it. we sat her down on the concrete. people came and helped. >> reporter: you are one tough young lady? >> i'm okay. >> reporter: we've been talking to your parents. you are pretty strong lady and you had some extensive damage. what was your recollections when you look back on it and have to think about what happened. take me back as best you can?
>> well whenever i look back and think about all that happened, i'm overwhelmed with how totally we were down on the floor. i was kind of like shots were going on and we were praying, please protect us lord. i felt really bad bang in my leg. i was like whoa and i gritted my teeth and kept praying. we need to go. then the shots stopped going as much. when i tried to get up and run, my leg popped out. i don't know how i got out. it's a miracle i made it out of the building. i don't even know what happened, but one guy did help me because
i was like stumbling on the steps. everybody was panicking. >> reporter: when did you realize you were shot? >> when i fell to the ground and i felt like a two would by four hit my leg. big bang in my leg. i knew it, but i don't know how bad it was. maybe it was through my flesh or i couldn't tell exactly where it was on my leg. >> reporter: you weren't screaming at this point. i wasn't. i was praying. i grabbed elizabeth's hand. we were just praying. i wasn't screaming. >> reporter: it was the top of
your leg and the damage done and came out the back. you thought at one point you may lose this leg but now you'll be able to keep it? >> i thought at first i was going to lose more than my leg. i didn't know if i was going to make it at all. yes, i'm really glad i'm not going to lose my leg. hopefully i'll be able to walk and jump and skip and play. >> reporter: i know you will. the story you tell us about not panicking, getting out. elizabeth, when did you realize bonnie was shot. what were you i'm not shot, i got to take her to safety? >> i didn't any idea she was hurt until i saw her limping along. i thought is he is helping this guy.
she was the one that was hurt. then i realized when she said i can't go anymore. we're going to focus on this and lay her down. >> reporter: where in the theater were you guys? >> we were in three-quarters of the way up. >> reporter: tell me did you see him? did you ever get close to him or realized there was shooter in there? >> we didn't see him at all. we were very far up and first thing we saw was a smoke bomb. we weren't for a person and then the shots coming, boom, boom, just laid down. >> reporter: is there a moment that stands out in your mind throughout this whole tragic incident, which i know is fresh why in your mind, is there one
moment, hey i'm going to make it out of this tragedy? >> yes. i was in the hall and i was hurting a lot. i hadn't gotten any pain medicine yet. i remember thinking, i'm going live. i'm going to make it. you know, i'm going to be okay. pain was coming on, but it made me feel like, i am feeling this pain and i'm going to be okay. >> greta: coming up, a chance meeting with a mass murder suspect. is how james holmes acting days before the massacre. you will hear what people had to say from a local bar, that is next. [ male announcer ] what if you had thermal night-vision goggles,
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suspect in 60 seconds, but first let's go to the new york newsroom where ainsley earhardt is standing by. >> unprecedented penalties for unthinkable cover up. naacp finding penn state $60 million and vacating joe paterno's vick to 2011. they are punishing the university for not doing enough to stop jerry sandusky from sexually abusing young boys. four-year ban from bowl games and reducing the number of athletic scholarships. world's largest computer maker preparing to lay off 1300 workers. cisco systems say they are juaflg to the changing economic conditions. company is saying, growing economic uncertainty makes it tougher to close deals. i'm ainsley earhardt and now back to greta. >> greta: so who is james holmes? the man accused of massacring
innocent people a man that happened to go to a midnight movie. we're learning more about him. we caught up with a colorado man said he had drinks with holmes a few nights before the shooting. what impression did he make on jackie mitchell. >> reporter: this the bar a few blocks from james holmes apartment where one regular customer says she shared a beer with him. >> when did you last see mr. holmes and what can you tell us about what he was wearing and what he was saying to you? >> tuesday, it was 6:30 or so, we were all on the patio and the guy was at the table. we were talking sports to another table. he was there. he had input on a couple of things, nothing serious. >> reporter: so you were sitting at a table with friends.
did he comes out and sits next to the table next to you but nobody next to you? >> just him. >> reporter: how did your conversation strike up. have you seen him there before? >> i never met him before that, but i saw him three or four times. >> reporter: at that bar? >> the first time we had the conversation was pretty sure it was tuesday. we were talking about football. >> reporter: so he is sitting next to the table. minute by minute play. he leans over and says, hey, i'm james? >> we shook hands, but i'm not sure he mentioned james holmes or john, i don't remember that. >> reporter: what was his demeanor like. you are happy hour, was he happy go lucky. what was the way he was acting? >> quiet.
broncos should make the playoffs. he didn't say too much. you notice he was there, but he wasn't like in all the conversations. he didn't seem like he was a bad guy. >> reporter: there have been reports he dyed his hair red and we have seen pictures that he posted to a dating site. did he have orange hair? >> no, it was brown. >> reporter: how did you identify him, after the shooting happened, you saw on the tv a picture or how did you realize, when did you realize this the guy that we had drinks with on tuesday? >> i walked in the house friday from a bad day at work. i walked in and put it on tv. i was like, wow, i know this guy. i called my brother, i know this dude. i had a beer with this guy.
he was like, wow, somebody was talking about the bar but i pretty much the security guard or the other stuff. but the guy in the bar was james holmes. >> by identification. >> made my hair stand up on my head and i don't have hair. >> reporter: did you call a couple friends? >> a couple talked about it. >> reporter: did your friends, maybe it wasn't that person? >> no, no. everybody was on the same page. everybody saw the same thing. >> reporter: everybody agrees. the bar owner of the zephyr, we don't think we saw him. we don't think we saw him. it was possibly somebody else? >> that is his opinion. i don't even know he was there. as a matter of fact he wasn't there. he can't tell me what i saw.
i know -- i don't want to put the people in the mix of this, they saw the same thing. >> reporter: so you go to this bar occasionally, regularly? >> yes. >> reporter: why then is there some debate in the media about whether he was there or not? >> i can't answer that. i know what i saw. to this point right now, looking at that picture on the tv again, i'll say it again, he was there. >> reporter: hundred percent sure? >> hundred percent. >> reporter: the owner has a different story. myron is the owner. jackie mitchell he is certain he saw out on his patio mr. hol opens tuesday evening, do you recall that? have you talked to your bartenders? >> i talked to my staff. nobody in my staff is familiar with him. i'm here approximately six to seven hours a day. i see downstairs in my office.
i have my security cameras in front of me. i watch the door. it's our job to watch the door to monitor who comes in and out of here. we're not familiar with this person as a regular customer. >> reporter: mr. mitchell said, he had been in here two or three times in the past once with a group of students as he was telling us, certain on tuesday night but he was by himself. he said he didn't recall red, orange hair. is it possible that he could have come in for a period of time and had a beer out here and you didn't see it? how certain that he was or wasn't here? >> if i had to testify in court, i'm not hundred percent certain that he was here or not here, but i know he is not a regular. as i say we monitor our door. when somebody walks in the door, if they don't go directly to the
bar to get a drink, i'm wondering what their business is here. >> greta: straight ahead, did anybody see james holmes the night of the deadly rampage. one neighbor said they saw him and there was something that stood out. i wiped the floor with the guy! not really. i would've been fine with 0% for 36 months, but i demanded 60. no...i didn't do that. it was like taking candy from a baby. you're a grown man. alright, see you at home. [ male announcer ] the volkswagen autobahn for all event. we good? we're good. [ male announcer ] at 0% apr for 60 months, no one needs to know how easy it was to get your new volkswagen. that's the power of german engineering. mine was earned off vietnam in 1968. over the south pacific in 1943. i got mine in iraq, 2003. usaa auto insurance is often handed down from generation to generation. because offers a superior level of protection, and because usaa's commitment to serve
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investigate who james holmes is. griff jenkins spoke to neighbors in aurora, colorado. >> reporter: we talked to lot of them. he seems to be described to a lo never and one woman says she saw holmes hours before the shooting >> you remember seeing him? >> yeah, thursday. >> reporter: thursday? >> yes. >> reporter: that was hours before. >> what is his name, james holmes and 17 he was running. >> reporter: was his hair orange and red? >> yeah. you see him on tv that this
is the guy that lives across the street. wow! it was just like you see on tv, he seemed like a smart intelligent man. he was a calm, casual guy. >> i don't see him. i would say hi, going by, but he >> he was a loner. he seemed nice. he wouldn't say nothing bad. >> reporter: immediately following with a that first mother told me, i contacted the police departments where james holmes and gave them information. they gave it to detectives. we have no way of confirming about seeing him hours before or there was another man but they
will look into it. they will find out what was going on. the other man was described as white american, stocky wearing a green shirt. >> greta: do the people live in the immediate vicinity where he lived? >> very much so. the apartment buildings are smaller one, eight or ten apartments. we are talking about literally two block radius. as described to me everyone seems to know everyone else in the neighborhood. >> is there a surgh suggestion that there was another man with him during this whole investigation. >> reporter: absolutely none that i've come across. i asked that woman whether she had seen him before, most people said he was alone or by himself. she has been living there less than two months. >> greta: the man who ran the gun range, he immediately picked up something was weird on this guy.
the gun range owner is the only one that picked up on this. >> the mother told me she picked it up on vibe, someone is running up the street. in this case, she tried to get the kids inside. it was the red hair that makes it feel certain. the other man stayed in the parking lot. holmes went in the building. coming up, thousands gather to remember those that were murdered. the emotional tribute. that is next. ♪ hajimemashite. hajimemashite. hajimemashite. you guys like football ? thank you so much. i'm stoked. you stoked ? totally. ... and he says, "under the mattress." souse le matelas. ( laughter ) why's the new guy sending me emails from paris ? paris, france ? verizon's 4g lte devices are global-ready. plus, global data for just $25. only from verizon.
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>> greta: thank you for being with us tonight. now as we go, we leave you with a look at an emotional vigil for the movie theater shooting victims. thousands paid tribute here in aurora last night. they gathered as colorado's governor read the 12 people who were murdered. >> to the victims' families we're more sorry than words can express.
and we struggle to find eating did n.an act that defies any type of understanding. july 20th should never be about remembering the killer. it should be about remembering those individuals. right? about remembering those victims. john blunk, we will remember. aj boik, jesse childress, gordon towden. jessica gowy, john larrimer, mat mcquinn.