tv The Journal Editorial Report FOX News December 22, 2012 11:00am-11:30am PST
protect society from them. and house republican's plan b to avoid a fiscal crisis collapses. is there a plan c or are we headed off the cliff? and top officials testify on capitol hill about the benghazi attack, but we'll have to wait longer to hear from hillary clinton. do they are role in that debacle effect her plans for 2016? welcome to the journal, editorial report, i'm paul gigot, as the nation copes with the shooting deaths of six deaths and 20 children at an elementary school in newtown, connecticut efforts turn now to preventing the next tragedy, with president obama appointing a task force for gun violence and members of congress calling for stricter gun control measures. but my guest this week says the heart of the problem is not the availability of weapons, but the abundance of individuals with severe mental disorders who are not being treated. dr. e fuller is the founder of
the treatment advocacy center and author of the "insanity offense" how america's failure it treat the seriously mentally ill is endangering its citizens. doctor torrey. welcome here. and you've written you're not against guns, but people's access. how many people are we talking about across the united states. >> it's a gun problem and a mental illness problem and 7 million at any given time, of these, half are not being treated at any given time and about 1% or 70,000 are potentially dangerous at any given time and we're not treating those people. >> paul: how do we get around to treating them? we don't know, for example, that adam lanza really was mentally ill. we haven't seen if -- we don't know if there was a formal diagnosis so how do we
identify those people and make sure they get treatment? >> most of the potentially dangerous people we can identify. you can walk into the police station in any small town in the united states, say, who are the potentially dangerous people that you know about? and say, well, john over on fourth street, we have to go and visit every two weeks because he gets a gun out and threatens to kill his neighbors. we know basically who the potentially dangerous people are, but we often, because the way the laws are written in most states, we can't do anything until they actually act. until they've actually committed a crime. >> paul: well, explain that. why to we have to wait if police departments and others know? when you say the law, the way the laws are written, how does that work? or in this case, not work? >> well, these are state laws so they vary from state to state. connecticut, as an example, has among the most stringent, restrictive commitment laws so the only way you can get somebody treated in connecticut is if they are overtly a danger to themselves or others.
you can't treat them because they are potentially, because they have exhibited dangerous, dangerous behavior in the past. you have to wait until they actually do something. they also, connecticut's a good example of one of only six states that does not have assistant outpatient treatment. which means you can treat the person living in the community on the condition they can live in the community on condition that they take the medication. connecticut doesn't even have a law like that. >> so, but who makes that decision when you say assist in outpatient treatment. in the case of adam lanza, who would say, look, you would need to take this treatment, otherwise you're going to have to be incarcerated? >> the petition could be filed by the mother or by another family member or by a member of the police, for example, if they thought the person was dangerous, he they then would have to be examined, i'm talking about a typical state. and they would have to be-- they then would have to be examined and they would have to have a court hearing, it
would be defended by a lawyer, so, it's a judicial process that then says, yes, you have exhibited dangerousness. we think you may be dangerous and remember, paul, half these people don't know they're sick and won't take medication voluntarily because they don't think there's anything wrong with them. and they're basically adjudicated by a judge that says yes, you can continue to live at home or wherever you're living on the condition you take medication, if you don't take medication, we have the legal right to put you in the hospital and stabilize you. >> these laws seem reasonable on its face as you explain it. why? what is the opposition to this kind of assisted outpatient treatment? >> very strong opposition to civil liberties, aclu, american civil liberties union? >> a here in washington has been a major impediment and a lot of people believe that nobody should be treated
involuntarily. well, that flies in the face of the fact that we treat people with active tuberculosis involuntarily when they won't take medicine. we also restrict people who have alzheimer's disease and don't know they're sick. so, we do this for other conditions, but we have a lot of trouble thinking through this clearly for people with severe mental illness. >> paul: you mentioned in your op-ed for us, the number of activity psychiatric beds has declined from more than half a million to fewer than 50,000. i guess this is part of that movement you're describing against incarcerating the mentally ill, but you're saying that that decline in those beds has endangered the american public? >> it has, because if you try to get somebody who needs hospitalization into a hospital today, it's virtually impossible. as one of my colleagues says, it's easier to get somebody into harvard than it is a mental hospital. we have only one out of the 20 beds that we had 50, 60 years
ago, given the increase in population, 95% of the beds that we used to use were treating people with severe mental illnesses are now closed. >> what are the states that do this well? you said connecticut doesn't do it well. but other states do. what's the evidence that they're succeeding. >> the states that are using assisted outpatient treatment. new york is a good example, they're use it go not widely, but using it and studies show that assisted treatment decreases hospitalization, decreases arrests and time people spent in jail and studies from both north carolina and new york showing that this kind of treatment will decrease episodes of violence as well. and now, a recent study from a county in california showing it's cost effective. for every dollar you spend on this program, you save up to $2. >>. >> paul: and you say you can do this without abusing the civil liberties of people and incarcerating them for months
or years on end or treating him for months and years on end. >> well, you're treating people against their will sometimes for long periods of time although they're living in the community, if they have no awareness of their illness, if they really think the cia is sending those voices in their head and they have no awareness of their illness and the cia is telling them to do various things, these people need to be treated for a long period of time, but live in the community. >> paul: thanks for being here, and for your insights. the plan b to avoid a fiscal crisis an abandoned. is there a plan c or are we headed off the cliff? our panel weighs in when we come back. juice or fancy wate. i've gotine grams of protein. that's three times more than me! [ female announcer ] ensure clear. nine grams protein. zero fat. in blueberry/pomegranate and peach. [ sniffs ] i took dayquil but my nose is still runny. [ male announcer ] truth is, dayquil doesn't treat that.
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conservatives balked at p provisions to let tax rates rise on those making over a million dollars. is there a plan c or over the fiscal cliff. dan henninger, editorial board member. mary anastasia o'grady and jason riley. where do we stand right now with the collapse of plan b? >> well, it's no fun being john boehner right now. he's still in a tight spot and the concern that the republicans have is that obama's panel strength and as we go over the cliff and tax rates go up. but i really think the buck stops with the president here. when you go into the negotiating sessions, paul and you're expected to make concessions, but you're expect today get something in return and boehner made a major concession on rights and the president is giving him nothing in return to take that to his caucus and say, this is what happened in the horse trading.
it's all or nothing, obama seems determined to humiliate the opposition. >> paul: boehner made two concessions, first 800 billion on the table in revenue and don't raise rates when the president said no he, you've got to raise rates. he said okay, a concession on rates, an offer first we'll vote for a million dollar tax increase on those making more than a million dollars, but give me something in return. then, those negotiations went nowhere, so then john boehner went to plan b. and i mean, i think you sense at least when i talk to boehner's people the enormous frustration with the president they're not going him anything to take back to his conference members and saying now what, this is worth violating your tax pledge and that's the problem. so, it seems to me that, you know, he's-- the president's almost saying, now, go over the cliff, i don't care, i know i can blame you and so what? >> well, excuse me, the atmosphere is so toxic at this point, paul, that we've talked
about the cliff as though the two sides are trying to negotiate something for the good of the economy, but the republicans in the house at this point believe that a large part of the negotiation is to disadvantage them politically and that the president has a track record of having done that. you remember back when ryan's budget was introduced and you had medicare reforms in it, that was followed by these tv commercials about literally throwing grandma off the cliff. the obama never turned-- shut down his political campaign and we know now a lot of of what happened the last four years was fed into the presidential campaign apparatus. if you're a republican, you've got to be sitting there saying, if i make a step wrong on medicare reform or one of these issues, it's going to be used against me in the 2014 election and i'm not going there. >> paul: that's what they just didn't want to take that step, they figured then they'll suffer. it will ab very bad vote and so, i mean, john boehner is in a very tough spot, as jason said because ultimately, if
you can't deliver the the votes on the floor, you either have to turn it over to the democrats and pass something with a handful of republicans and democrats, which may be what happened, or you end up going over the cliff. >> you know, i think the main problem for boehner is actually not what he does, but how -- who it gets blamed on, that's what he has to work harder on communicating to the american people. there are three branches of government, you know, we didn't elect president obama to be th dictator. we have another branch which, where the democrats lost and people who voted for republicans were very concerned about the size of government, paul. i mean, they've allowed this to be a debate about tax rates, but the real problem, i think, for most republicans and people who voted for them is that they see how the cost curve is just bending up at a rate that is just unsustainable. i mean, the country cannot survive the kinds of increases in entitlement payoffs that will occur if there's not
reform. >> paul: there's at least in my reporting, the president has offered only one substantive entitlement reform and that's a change how we calculate inflation for benefits and tax brackets and that was agreed to last year. it's really minor in the scheme of things, nothing else sustainable. >> i think that the president is overplaying his hand, paul. he's going to need republican vote next year to raise the debt ceiling and needs the republicans votes for second term items, immigration reform and humiliating them now is not going to-- >> he could in a sense, the fiscal cliff is in a sense artificial, if he has the power to raise taxes next year for six months and then get down to serious negotiations after the congress-- >> and should republicans be willing to raise rates? say we lost the election, now what, we're just going to, we have to do it. >> well, i think if the president had put something that was like $1 of tax increases for every $4 that he was cutting, then there could
be an argument for doing that, but he's not there. >> paul: all right, mary, thank you. still ahead, four state department officials were removed from their post after a report about the u.s. consulate attack in benghazi. ...so as you can see, geico's customer satisfaction is at 97%. mmmm tasty. and cut! very good. people are always asking me how we make these geico adverts. so we're taking you behind the scenes. this coffee cup, for example, is computer animated. it's not real. geico's customer satisfaction is quite real though.
>> a scathing report this week blames systemic failures in leadership and management deficiencies at the state department for inadequate security at the u.s. consulate in benghazi before the september 11th attack that killed ambassador chris stevens and three other americans. in testimony before congress this week, two top advisors to secretary of state hillary clinton vowed to do better and to improve security at u.s. diplomatic posts around the world.
clinton herself was suppose today appear, but reportedly recovering from a concussion and testifying in january. and we're back with bret stevens, also joins us, so, bret. what did we learn this week about the attack that's new? >> let me correct you, this was not a scathing report. this was a report that said there were failures in middle management. it says in its last sentence that no disciplinary actions are warranted. four officials did resign. he gives us a timeline of what happened and by now all of us know happened in benghazi, it tells us that the cia had no information about impending attacks even though it had officers on the ground. it's know the a scathing report. it's a whitewash report. >> paul: you would go so far as to say this is a whitewash? >> aside from the first sentence, hillary clinton's name is never mentioned. this is a report at the state department certain boxes
weren't checked. there wasn't proper coordination between this bureau and that bureau. should have been more proactive management and you've heard reports like this, and 25 implemented and we'll be wondering why it didn't prevent the attack. >> the panel appointed by hillary clinton did not interview her before reaching the conclusions. a panel appointed by her conveniently clears her. >> paul: doesn't mention her. >> no individual. >> it doesn't mention her, the second tier-- so these four individuals, assistant secretary of state or lower levels. >> right. >> they were basically forced-- i mean, are they the scapegoats? >> they fell on their swords for supposedly responsible for embassy security, fell on their swords, but the report itself says no disciplinary, there's no reason for
recommendation for disciplinary action, that's the last line of this report. so, what you have here is basically saying, look, you know, there were management failures, paul, and they had tragic consequences, we know the state department is a large bureaucracy with eyes on many, many countries, terrible things happened. we hope they won't happen again. now what, we had the the same thing in nairobi and another report of recommendations how better to secure these sorts of facilities. didn't happen. ten years from now we'll be revisiting this same store of story. >> what they've done is reduced this to a bureaucratic screw-up. and what hasn't been reviewed is what was the u.s. policy in eastern libya. the cia was in eastern libya because they were concerned that al-qaeda was using that part of the country to recruit people into the terrorist organization, now, what was the u.s. state department and obama administration's policy towards libya?
between the lines of this report suggested it was reflected in a kind of lig light footprint. they thought libya was going all right. i think there was a break between-- >> a light footprint was explicit policy, maybe not explicit, but after gaddafi fell we washed our hands of libya more or less. had a few state department and cia this. morals said the qataris and united arab emirates, they would take care of arming things and we let them arm the islamists, that's who they support and now the islamists are gaining in strength against an elected government. >> but this is reflective of a broader pattern of a spore raddic attentiveness that this administration shows, it's broadly reactive, not proactive and you know, basically said, hey, libya, we've been there, done that.
gaddafi is gone and on to what might be happening in cairo. >> paul: what are the implications for secretary clinton and i assume, we all assume she'll run for president. >> well, this, it's secretary clinton, i think, could not have hoped for a better report than the one that she got, because let's face it, management failures, we said management screwups happen all the time and this was very regrettable, it's time as the saying goes to move on and she's going to like what is in the report, it has no specific accountability to her. >> paul: we have to take one more break. when we come back our hits and misses of the week. ♪
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challenge chris christie and instead challenging a democrat 88 years old and if that works out. chris christie as the governor works out best for them and may be in the senate. >> paul: mary. >> a hit for a new report that finds u.s. teen smoking has dropped to a record low. i think we should celebrate this, not just for the result, but also because it shows us that we have the ability to discourage drug use, in this case, nicotine, by regulating, taxing and stigmatizing the drug use. and it's too bad that our culture, particularly hollywood, wouldn't try the same thing with other drugs. >> paul: all right. bret? >> this is a hit to the human race, congratulations, it's the weekend and you are alive. the world has not ended and no, i'm not referring to the mayan apocalypse that supposedly took place on friday, i'm referring yet to the fact that we had another climate summit in doha