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tv   America Live  FOX News  April 4, 2013 10:00am-12:00pm PDT

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camera a doubter here. liz and i are holding down the fort for the women. give her a shot. i can't dunk. that's pretty good. >> i can't touch the rim. thanks for joining us. >> "america live" starts right now. >> megyn: fox news alert with some breaks news on a troubling series of events over the past 24 hours on the korean peninsula sparking concerns that the world may be inching closer and closer to a dangerous conflict. welcome to "america live" everyone, i'm megyn kelly. just moments ago, u.s. officials confirming to fox news that intel has shown north korea is moving around some mid-range missile launchers, this could indicate a test launch is coming. and this is just the latest in a series of provocative moves by the north after a message was broadcast on state tv there, north korea warning it's been authorized to attack the united states with nuclear weapons.
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>> we will cope with the u.s. nuclear threat with a merciless nuclear attack and face the infiltration with a justified all-out war, this is our military and our people's unchangeable stance. the u.s. and those followers should clearly know that everything is different in the era of respected kim jong-un. >> wow, the translator's voice sounded so much for friendly than the original. the u.s. is walking a delicate tightrope, trying not to pre-volk the clearly unstable leader and displaying our readiest, our 23rd kem battalion. the unit specializes in chemical detection and decontamination and shows of force to let them know who they're dealing with. steve centanni live from washington with more. >> reporter: hi, megyn, the north korean military saying they've been authorized to attack the u.s. and moved a missile within, quote, a considerable range to its east
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coast. the state department spokeswoman victoria nuland about to address, and that yet to get underway. the latest round of bellicose threats of north korea with a series of -- a series of military moves and the latest is to deploy a missile battery to guam. which would be in north korea's range if they decided to attack. they have a major military base there. the missile system is designed to detect and eliminate weapons. and it's the first time it's been deployed. the u.s. secretary didn't talk about that deployment in the speech yesterday, but did say, he's taking the situation with north korea very seriously. >> some of the actions they've taken over the last few weeks present a real and clear danger and threat to the interests, certainly, of our allies, starting with south
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korea. >> reporter: and in north korea, the young leader kim jong-un has maintained a confrontational tone with the u.s., and believed to solidify power at home and not believed to have the technology at this point to mount a miniaturized warhead on a missile, but the u.s. taking all of these threats very, very seriously. >> megyn: thank you. well, speaking of kim jong-un we take a closer look at the man behind the threat from north korea and ask if we can expect him to think and act logically. ralph peters has been doing an investigation on this guy and wait until you hear what he found. >> we are tracking breaks news this hour from the university of rhode island's campus in kingstown, rhode island. the school is in lockdown after reports of a possible gunman on campus. multiple sources reporting all classes have been canceled as authorities investigate. students have been order today stay indoors. no gunshots have been heard,
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according to the reports, but we are closely following this story and we will bring you any updates as they come in. developing right now, colorado authorities issuing an urgent bulletin to police everywhere. be on the lookout for two suspected members of a dangerous prison gang who may be bent on revenge against law enforcement. the head of the colorado prison system tom clement was gunned down at his front door with his wife-- that was actually in texas, this guy was not killed with his wife. the gunman was a suspected member of the same group, they call themselves 211 crew. now, this is clements' suspected killer, evan ebel, and he was in a shootout with police in march. and they want to find the two other men considered armed and dangerous. the fbi is investigating possible links between clements' murder and the killing i just mentioned of
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the texas d.a., michael mclelland and his wife cynthia on saturday. they're looking into it. and the assistant d.a., mark hasse, was killed back in january so they clearly think that the murders of the three people you see on screen here were related and the question is whether these can be tied to what happened to the colorado prison director. more on that as we get it. we're hearing new warnings today from critics of president obama's, as he rolls out the next phase of the health care law. the administration is setting rules to hire potentially tens of thousands of what are called navigators. these are the folks who are supposed to guide the millions of americans who are going to sign up for new insurance, under these, you know, state exchanges. it's hard. some of these forms are 26 pages long and you're going to need somebody to call if you mess it up and walk you through it. in some cases somebody to
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translate the english that these forms are going to be into spanish and some are raising red flags, saying the rules allow these jobs of the navigators to be billed by organizations with political agendas, including unions and community action groups. chris stirewalt is the host of power play on foxnews.com live. and the numbers of navigators needed, i mean, this could solve our unemployment crisis if they hire as many navigators as they say they need, tens of thousands, they're saying, in various states, just to advise individual state residents of their rights and how they can get obamacare-backed insurance, but who pays for it? >> oh, now who pays for it, megyn kelly. >> megyn: is it me? >> yeah, you pay for it. the president to give back more than 5%, more than a few hundred dollars a week to do this. in california alone, what do we see? hundreds of billions of
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dollars in costs to have these temporary employees come into the system, to then bring people who will be receiving this subsidized health insurance, to bring them into the system. and the truth is, the president hasn't given anybody any benefits from this law yet. and it remains unpopular and if he can't hurry up and get people enrolled in it, we're already seeing this happen, the whole works could break apart before it ever gets implemented. republicans and democrats alike are nicking away at the law, implementation problems are huge. if they can't hurry and push a bunch of people into this program, it will remain in jeopardy as long as there's nobody receiving a direct benefit. >> megyn: so first they said we'll set up the exchanges and i've been describing it like expedia, somebody sets it upjohn line and go on, this is my height, this is my medical history, and maybe they don't need your height. >> tall people, we've got problems, we've got problems. >> megyn: and need your medical history, they need the information about your financial background and so
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on. and then they tell you whether you qualify for one of these subsidized exchange plans and so on. but the navigators are going to have to help us through it. originally they said the insurers, the insurers who would then wind up giving us the insurance were going to pay the fees for these navigators, but now it turns out that may not be enough. the insurers may not be in on the game early enough to fund it and so they say it it can be financed through certain federal grants and that does mean you and me and the viewers watching right now. >> sure, and this is part of the president's decision to do a deal with insurance companies to create this new entitlement program. and the insurance companies are already raising premiums and raising rates as a consequence of the new requirements and the law and then when they're confronted with, we want you to sign up people to get free or subsidized health insurance, these insurance companies say, whoa, we're already being stretched by what you're demanding of us, we can't add into the mix and--
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. call our friends over at sdiu. because they have lots of friends who want to help americans sign up for obamacare. and people call up, i don't understand 26-page forms, and union members and others say let me walk you through it, meg, help you out. >> these are the groups that marched for the president the folks who got these laws passed and who put the squeeze on, who fought for this thing. one would expect that they would be lining up if there were jobs, even short-term jobs, jobs to do this and the problem comes in, republicans are very concerned about this, is that does this give these groups, these democratic allied groups access to vital information about people that they can either then organization subsequently, as a matter of fact, one louisiana congressman is concerned that voter registration identification might even be coming into the system through this, and that these pathfinders might be,
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call them pathfinders? >> navigators. >> magellan might be able to take this information away and use it for their own purposes. there's no evidence of that, but it's part of a growing list of concerns. when you get to the actual implementation of this law there are headache after headache after headaches. >> megyn: and so they're going to need their doctors. (laughter) chris, thank you. >> you bet. >> megyn: and chris stirewalt, everybody. well, coming up, parents from newtown, connecticut are speaking out in favor of these controversial new gun rules that will limit weapons to ten rounds at a time passed now in connecticut. up next, after the break we'll ask n.r.a. chair wayne lapierre about this and big new developments in america's gun control debate. don't miss the head of the n.r.a. right after this break. plus, new federal numbers show a growing number of american couples deciding to live together and raise kids without ever getting married.
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is that a good idea? and could there be a down side for the country? we'll investigate. and the firing of rutgers basketball coach getting widespread support after video of him abusing players. today we'll look at eric bolling's argument on "the five" not only did rutgers make a wrong call in canning this guy, but a problem with raising our children today. >> here is the question, are we better off as a nation now with all the p.c. and with all the wimp-- wussification and making men chihuahuas.
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>> fox news alert out of connecticut, that state now boasting the nation's toughest gun restrictions ever. this video of governor dan malloy moments ago signing the sweeping new gun limits into law. that bans more than one
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hundred firearms and background checks on all gun purchases and bans the sale of ammunition magazines with more than ten rounds. some are immediately lawmakers in response to the tragedy at sandy hook. many parents from newtown voiced support in favor of the controversial gun rules. joining me now to discuss it, wayne lapierre, the ceo of the national rifle association. and so the support for this new set of laws in connecticut was not universal, but many, many of the newtown parents got behind it, wayne, and i want to ask you, because cbs released to us a sound bite on 60 minutes, they'll be airing in some interviews with newtown parents, who sat down with scott pelley and this is in part why they believe they need these new laws and they want in particular the
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limitation on the magazines, you know, the amount of ammo you're allowed to carry around. listen to scott pelle and a couple of the newtown families. >> the legislature decide today limit the size of magazines in connecticut to ten rounds. the gunman at sandy hook was using 30 round magazines. now, i've heard the argument made, you can change these magazine clips in these rifles in a matter of two seconds. so what difference does it make? >> well, there was one instance where it wasn't two seconds and allowed 11 kids to get out of a classroom. >> tell me about that. >> it's just a simple arithmetic. if you have to change magazines 15 times instead of five times, you have to three times as many incidents where something could be jammed, something could be bobbled. you increase the time for intervention and where kids can get out and there's 11 kids out there today that are still running around on playground, pretty much now at
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lunch time, who was saved from these classrooms? >> right. >> he left the smaller capacity magazines at home. that was a choice the shooter made. he knew the larger capacity magazine clips were more lethal. >> megyn: powerful to listen to, you know, those families directly affected say if adam lanza, the shooter at newtown had not had 30-round magazines, if he'd only had ten rounds in the guns, more children would have lived. your thoughts? >> well, i think the problem with what connecticut did, megyn shall the criminals, the drug dealers, the people that are going to do more and terror, they aren't going to cooperate. all you're doing is making the law books thicker for the law abiding people. i mean, from the very start, my thought is how little it has to do with keeping kids safe and how much it has do do with this decade-long agenda against firearms that the
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political-- some of the political class and the media have had. what n.r.a. is focused on is what they'll make people say, if you're going to stop something horrible from happening in the schools, put police officers or armed security in every school. fix the broken mental health system that's broken from one end of this country to the other and the third thing, one gun or one round in the hand of a criminal or somebody mentally dangerous is too many. and we need to get that person off the street. interdict them, incarcerate them if they're criminals before they get to the next crime scene. if they're mentally defective intercept them on street and get them to treatment. >> megyn: i appreciate that. >> and things that will actually work. >> megyn: i appreciate that and you articulate your position well. if i can circle you back, if anything moves the people in this country or has moved them in one direction or the other is the newtown tragedy.
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and you hear the parents and the spouses of those killed, there were 20 children and six adults killed, say 11 children had a chance to escape as that guy reloaded. and the father or the one man there, saying if he had to reload five times instead of one time, how many more lives would have been saved. that -- that is to me the most compelling argument. that is revealed the most compelling way anyone has revealed the argument for limitation on ammo and i'd love to get your response. >> well, my response is the criminals aren't going to have less. one round in the hand of someone that's going to do horror is too many. >> megyn: how do you know, wayne? because-- let me jump in and i'll give you the floor, i promise. adam lanza, his mother was a legal gun owner, how do you know that this person, that his mother would not have obeyed the law and limited the magazine clips and then adam lanza would have been limited
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to ten rounds instead of 30? >> megyn, you could-- people that know guns, you can change magazine clips in a second. there's no evidence that, you know, that anything would have changed. i mean, the fact is, if you're a home owner though, and you have someone coming through your door in the middle the of the night. why should you be limited to three rounds or four rounds like mayor bloomberg wants to do. >> megyn: what about ten? >> the fact is that criminals aren't going to be limited. people want magazines for the time reason police carry 17-round magazines, to protect capitol hill. you may need them for protection, if something horrible is hang. most robberies involve-- a third of robberies involve multiple intruders and you know, people want them for the same reason police want them, the same reason that capitol hill is protected by it, is why should you be limited to somewhat-- what some politician believes
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is reasonable. >> megyn: i do want to tell the viewers that the new york times was reporting based on interviews with the parents, that officials have said he tired, lanza, 154 shots in about four minutes and that the parents claim that they have been told that in the time it took him to reload in one of the classrooms, 11 children were able to escape. that's where i'm getting my information frch information. i understand your counter point, wayne and the viewers will-- a lot to get through. universal background checks we're coming up against a hard break and we'll care you you over. 85% of the american people support it, including 81% of homes with gun owners in them. look the at across the partisan divide. 90% of democrats favor. 3 83% of republicans and why don't you support it. >> we supported the check on retail sales, and we were promised it would be fair and accurate. and none of those, there are all kinds of delays.
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the mental health records are not in the system and nobody's prosecuted and turns out to be a speed bump for law-abiding gun owners. >> megyn: you think it's not necessary. my apologized because of a hard break. part of staying active and strong. ensure high protein... fifty percent of your daily value of protein. low fat and five grams of sugars. [ major nutrition ] ensure! nutrition in charge!
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>> hate the hard breaks. and wayne lapierre, thank you, sir, for waiting with us. and let you make your point about the universal background checks. >> the whole thing it's a dishonest premise. criminals aren't going to be checked and the mental health records, the adam lanza, james loughner, aurora, they're not going to be in the system either. it's you and me. drug gangs who did all kinds of horrible things, won't say hey let's go down to wal-mart and the police station and
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fill out the forms and pay the fees and put our name in that system. it's not going to happen, you're going to end up with 100 million law abiding people paying fees, paying taxes, being inconvenienced. affecting no criminals, simply lining up all the good people and putting their name in a registry and once people find that out, they go, i'm not in favor of that. i see president obama out there on the campaign trail. everybody ought to hold up a sign that says 90 because if he really, really wanted to make a difference, chicago wouldn't be 90th of 90 in the united states in terms of enforcing the federal gun laws on drug dealers with guns, gangs with guns and felons with guns. chicago is dead last in the united states. that case the president keeps talking about with the poor young girl that was killed, that guy had been picked up on a gun charge, that gang member, put out on the street on probation, had been rearrested three he times for
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break-ins and for tresspassing and still left on the streets and was never prosecuted under federal law at all. >> megyn: yeah, there's no question that chicago gun law enforcement is extremely wanting. i want to move on to another point, speaking of president obama. he spoke in colorado yesterday which also just passed tough gun control measures and said that the opponents of some of these, quote, common sense laws, has ginned up fears and it feeds into this suspicion about government and went on to say this, wayne. >> you hear some of these quotes. i need a gun to protect myself from the government. we can't do background checks because the government's going to come take my guns away. the government's us. these -- these officials are elected by you.
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[applaus [applause] >> they are elected by you, i am elected by you. i'm constrained as they are constrained by a system that our founders put in place. >> megyn: your thoughts on that? >> yeah, this is somebody that handed out flyers, his campaign did, around the country saying he's a strong supporter of the second amendment. he said personally, i'll never try to ban your rifle, shotgun and handgun and then before the campaign, and now he's trying to ban all three. i mean, ask the american public to believe promises from politicians in in town, washington d.c. right now, is a pretty tall order. if they get a registry of all the law-abiding people, i watched their politicians break their promise in the united kingdom and i bet they do it here. what they really need to do, fix the mental health system, enforce the gun laws and put school security in there that will actually protect people
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and let's start doing people that make people safer in this country. they're not doing it. >> megyn: you've taken a lot of heat the past few months for the remarks in the wake of newtown and some of the newtown families were upset they bot robo calls from the n.r.a., in march. >> it was recently regarding this legislation that was in connecticut that we believe only affects the law-abiding people and it lines up the-- >> do you regret that, wayne. regret the robo calls to the newtown familie or anything in your tone in the wake of the newtown shootings? >> megyn, i think our tone is what makes america safe. we're saying it louder than anybody, enforce the federal gun laws, they're not doing it. put armed security in school and fix the mental health system. and the media may not like it, they're screaming to the rafters for the gun agenda. i think the american people
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are saying, i don't-- everything that might have happened, might have stopped for the criminal and mental health systems. let's fix those and put security on top of it and make people safe. >> megyn: wayne lapierre, thank you so much. appreciate you being here. >> thanks for having me. >> megyn: we're taking your thoughts on it it. are there difficult issues on which the american people are sharply divided on the-- follow me on twitter let me know your thoughts: @megyn kelly. we're hearing reports reacting to a student radical who confessed to triple murder now holds a prestigious job at a top university. why? why does columbia university need to hire somebody who confessed to killing three law enforcement officers? we'll ask the son of one of the men she murdered how he feels about this news. he's here with us live. plus, new federal numbers out today showing a growing number
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>> fox news alert and a quick update for you now from the university of rhode island in
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ki kingtown, state police are going room to room in a campus building after reports of a possible gunman on campus. students have been warned to remain inside and multiple sources saying that the classes have been investigated. no gunshots or no reports of that yet. we'll bring you any updates as we get them. well, a new study finds american families are changing. more and more women are choosing to cohabit with their partners before they say "i do." we used to call that living in sin when i was growing up, catholic days. in 1995, 34% of women said they lived with their guy first. 2002, the number jumped to 43% and most recent data nearly half, half the women choose now to cohabit as their first union and many of those folks are having kids together without marrying first. so what does that mean and why are we doing it?
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monica crowley is radio talk show host and kirsten powers, the daily beast. i cast no judgment calling it living in sin because i have done it, but it used to be rare and it's far less rare, it's becoming the norm now today. why is that, monica? >> you're right, megyn, it used to be something of a stigma to have couples living together who were not marry, but the trend has been in place now for a couple of decades. i think part of the reason was feminist revolution of the early '70s, women to make their own choices and didn't have to be directed into marriage and a family right away and i think you have the first two generations of people coming into adulthood, my generation, kirsten's generation, yours, and the second generation after us whose parents have been divorced. in a lot of cases our parental divorce examples, either our
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parents and friends and people that we know, those have been in a lot of cases have been pretty bad and i think you've got now new generations coming up, seeing the wreckage of divorce, a lot of emotional and economic scars and saying, you know what? i saw my parents or people that i know get burned by this institution and i'm going to be a little more cautious and take more time. >> megyn: and if it's a fear of divorce, according to, you know, the studies, and i'm looking at one psychologist's column now, but i've read this in other studies before, they say that couples who cohabit before marriage are more likely to divorce than couples who do not? >> yeah, well, i guess the theory behind that is because a lot of people end up getting married out of inertia. they're living together and seems like the next natural step, but it's not necessarily an affirmative step or maybe one wants to get married and the other doesn't and they don't want to lose the person and lose everything they have and get married and-- it's not as much of an
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affirmative decision. >> megyn: so, you know, i tend to think, i don't know if these studies, there are plenty of people who co-habitate together and have great marriages and i tend to take these with a grain of salt. in the intro you said women are choosing to do this. my experience anecdotal, most of my friends who ended up doing this, the guy wouldn't get married. that was not their choice, they wanted to get married. >> megyn: they said women are more likely to view-- this is a psychologist. women are looking to see it it it as a way too marriage and men are to test it or postpone the commitment. and remember the old phrase, why should i buy the cow if i'm getting the milk for free, right? >> right. >> we have all of these cliches, but they're there for a reason and maybe the question then, as kirsten points out. maybe the question is, are we
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expecting too little of men then, as women, are we saying, okay, we're going to accept second best and accept living together because he doesn't want to get married and i'm okay with that, when you're really not okay. >> megyn: the answer is yes, why would you want to live with a guy who is not sure if he wants to be with you. if he wants to marry you he should put a ring on it, as they say. if not, just keep dating. you're not going to lure them by giving the milk away for free. >> amen, sister. >> preach it. >> you're totally right and i agree with that, but society tells a lot of women, it's normal he's unsure, just move in with him and so the women do that and face it , a lot of them might want to have kids and they're in the their early 30's and also will end up having kids out of wedlock because they want kid. i don't fault them.
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if you live in a society that affirms this, it's okay. to be fair there are women out there who do just want to co-habitate and women who have their own commitment issues. so. >> megyn: true. >> but like i said, in my experience, most of my friends, if they weren't married it's because their boyfriends wouldn't marry them. >> megyn: i will say this for the record, i co-habitated, lived in sin before my first marriage and ended in divorce and married doug and we did not live together at all until we got married and we're happily married with two kids and one more on the way. for what it's worth. all right, ladies, always interesting, thank you. >> thank you. >> all right, thank you. >> megyn: well, coming up we're hearing new reaction today to reports that this one-time student radical who confessed to triple murder, now holds a prestigious job at a university. she got out of prison after 22 years and columbia university decided she would make a great adjunct professor.
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today we will be joined live by the son of one of the men she murdered. what does he think about this. new twist and drama over a portrait of jesus that hung in one school for more than 60 years. faith is a big part of this community, we rely on each other, rewe rely on god. >> what about their rights? what about our rights? >> let's he see a show of hands of those who want to see it stay. charles schwab, we've committed to setting the bar high by going low. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 like offering schwab etfs tdd# 1-800-345-2550 with the lowest operating expenses tdd# 1-800-345-2550 in their respective lipper categories -- tdd# 1-800-345-2550 lower than ishares tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and vanguard. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 and with all our etfs commission-free tdd# 1-800-345-2550 when traded online in a schwab account, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 it leaves our investors with more money to invest. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 something they've come to count on with us. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 so as investors continue to set their portfolio goals high, tdd# 1-800-345-2550 we help keep their costs of investing low. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 give us a call and open an account today. tdd# 1-800-345-2550 carefully consider prospectus information, including tdd# 1-800-345-2550
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>> well, new controversy for planned parenthood after its attempt to clarify a controversial statement. this started during holy week when one of the representatives testified to some florida lawmakers that she was unsure whether planned parenthood would save the life of a baby born as the result of a botched abortion. listen to this. >> if a baby is born on the table as a result of a botched
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abortion, what would planned parenthood want to have happened to that child that's struggling for life. >> we believe that any decision that's made should be left up to the woman, her family and the decision. >> you stated that a baby born on a table as a result of a botched abortion, that that decision should be left to the doctor and the family. is that what you're saying? >> that decision should be between the patient and the herman cain p health care provider. >> i think at that point the patient would be the child struggling on the table. wouldn't you agree? >> that's a good question, i don't know how to answer that. >> what objection would you have to obligation of a doctor to transport a child alive to the hospital. >> what if it's a rural health care setting? >> when it's in a rural health care setting and she went on to say, you know, when the hospital to which the baby would have to be transferred
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could be as much as 45 minutes away. what would she do? well, reaction to that obviously blew up and now planned parenthood has tried to clarify this by saying in the quote extremely unlikely that a botched abortion happens, planned parenthood would provide appropriate care to both the woman and the infant. marc thiessen joins me enterprise institute and former speech writer for president george w. bush. and sally kohn, a fox news contributor. we're talking babies actually born alive, this isn't first trimeste trimester. and the planned parenthood labori lobbyist, whether that baby should get care or whether to kill it there on the table. it's amazing to think about it. the planned parenthood is
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calling a post birth abortion. that's an oxymoron, when you have a child born alive and struggen on the operating table, struggling for life, it's murder. and for someone from planned parenthood and lobby, and that that baby be given treatment. 542 million dollars from the taxpayer last year in 2012. we shouldn't be giving a penny to an organization that actively lobbies against-- in favor of infantacide. >> megyn: i understand that planned parenthood provides contraceptives and exams. but whether she struggled whether a life infant who survived a botched abortion
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has medical care, that's a game changer. >> there's no question he that this woman gave a ridiculous answer, but it's also a ridiculous question. the reality of abortion, the reality of abortion is emotional enough. we don't need to deal with the made up, fear-mongering hypothetical. the fact is there's a law in place since 2002 of the born infant protection act which addresses the issue that this legislature was trying to bring up as a scare tactic here. it's already an issue, it doesn't happen. and you know, it's just sort of-- it was a really, really, dumb answer, but it was a nonsensical question in the context of reality. >> megyn: she kept saying it over and over. it wasn't like she was stumped. you watched the whole six-minute exchange that's how this woman genuinely feels. she doesn't know whether the infant, baby born alive gets medical care. she thinks at that point the mother could say kill it.
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>> for the record-- >> and why planned parenthood say of course we would provide appropriate care to both the woman and the infant. why isn't miss snow fired and-- >> the reality let's look at the facts as we know that. the federal level, when this law was passed a that already addresses these issues, planned parenthood and pro choice didn't fight it. >> why was she-- why was she lobbying against it up there. >> of course we care for the baby. >> why was she up there lobbying against it? why, for example, did barack obama when he was state legislature oppose born alive protection. we have planned parenthood and the pro-abortion left activelyv bills that's going on in state legislature across the country. >> not true. >> there's a doctor right now on trial in philadelphia for doing hundreds and hundreds of post-- quote, unquote, post birth
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abortions and purposely take the babies and bring them to-- bring them out alive and then kill them. this is happening in our country right now. >> and women deliver babies. >> and i'm sorry, it's not true and lets me be clear. first of all, 90% of abortion services happen before 12 weeks in this country, just well before the age of viability. in florida for instance, you can't get an abortion after 24 weeks which would make this, and it doesn't happen, but there is a reality he we should talk about, which is if we're concerned about botched abortions, if we're concerned about the health of babies and women, botched abortions are what happened in the country before it was safe and legal and women had to go to back alleys and drink poison to get rid of their children. >> megyn: there's no question that not everybody who is pro choice is pro-abortion, that's not an accurate characterization, but this seems to be something that we should be able to agree on. the baby gets born, it is alive on the table, yeah, now what, miss snow, the baby gets a doctor. even if it's a 45 minute drive
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to get the dr. >> everyone agrees on that. >> megyn: i'm glad. mark, sally, thank you so much. >> thank you. >> megyn: up next, why a schoolhouse picture that hung 60 years without any problem is now threatened with a federal lawsuit. get who is in it? i tried weight loss plans... but their shakes aren't always made for people with diabetes. that's why there's glucerna hunger smart shakes. they have carb steady, with carbs that digest slowly to help minimize blood sugar spikes. and they have six grams of sugars. with fifteen grams of protein to help manage hunger... look who's getting smart about her weight. [ male announcer ] glucerna hunger smart. a smart way to help manage hunger and diabetes.
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>> faith is a big part of this community. we rely on each other. we rely on god. >> their rights? what about our rights? >> let's see the hands, vote on those who want it to stay? >> look at that. that was just a sample of the debate that's raging in jackson, ohio after the aclu threatened to sue over a portrait of jesus. that's been in the middle school more than 60 years. our gregg jarrett picks up the
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legal fight there. hey, gregg. >> reporter: hey, megyn, it looks like the students at the public middle school when asked raise their hands to say they like the portrait of jesus and keep it hanging in the hall of honor where it's been for 66 years, is actually the portrait owned by a christian oriented school club. but two students did not like it, they decided to sue, claiming that government was promoting a specific religion or religion in general, and thus violating the establishment clause of the first amendment, or the at least that's what the aclu and the group "freedom from religion" claim. >> we don't have majority rule in this country, we have constitutional rule and if there's at least one person who objects, that person should not be made to feel like an outsider. >> reporter: so after the lawsuit was filed, the jesus portrait was actually moved to the public high school, from the middle school. but when the insurance company for the school district said it would no longer cover the
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litigation costs in the case, the district took the painting down. >> if they were to start issuing a lot of orders against the school district, certainly that could create some problems for them and they can't roll the dice on that kind of taxpayer money. >> reporter: so the district has argued in court early on in the filings that this portrait is actually, quote, private student speech in a limited public forum and thus protected by free speech clause of the first amendment. and actually not a bad argument, it could be viable and maybe it will happen again, but only if the student club decides to sue to put it back up, megyn. >> megyn: it could wind up in kelly's court. gregg, thank you. >> reporter: good one. >> megyn: new reaction reports that a former member of the weather underground, a woman who spent decades behind bars for confessing to three murders is currently teaching at columbia university. the son of one of the men she admits she murdered joins us live with his reaction just ahead.
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plus, many are applauding rutgers decision to fire its basketball coach after he's seen shoving and yelling at players with basketballs. and today our eric bolling joins us because he says rutgers made a bad call here. ♪
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>> fox news alert. law enforcement officials across the country are on high alert over fears that a dangerous prison gang may be targeting prosecutors, jail officials, police officers, and even their families. brand new hour here of "america live." welcome everyone, i'm megyn kelly. five murders in three states all involving law enforcement officials. now some police across the country are growing very concerned. a violent white supremist prison gang has declared open season on public officials. colorado police issuing an urgent bulletin warning police everywhere to be on the lookout in particular for these two members of a white supremacist group known as
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2-11 crew. the men are believed to be pals with evan ebel. he's another member of the same crew who police believe is the man who assassinated the colorado corrections director. remember that man first got gunned down tom clements, back on march 19th. he was killed when he answered his door at home and now they think that these murders that happened in texas may be linked. in the meantime, the fbi is investigating all of that because they want to know, is that murder of a top law enforcement official connected to the murders of the texas d.a., mike mclelland and his wife cynthia also at their home, which followed the murder of the texas assistant district attorney who served the same man, mark hasse. hasse was gunned down near his courthouse office in january and then his boss and the boss' wife is killed. all of this makes your head spin. the urgent bulletin after the
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west virginia sheriff, eugene crum was executed, this happened in broad daylight and happened in his car as he sat on a lunch break. alicia acuna where a manhunt is underway. >> reporter: megyn, the el paso county sheriff's department saying today these two men could pose a threat to deputies and officers if contacted and they issued this warning to law enforcement overnight. >> the department of corrections, requesting agencies to be on the look out for the following parties, and men associated, the 2-11 crew, and violent tendencies, should be considered armed and dangerous. >> thomas james guolee is 31 years old, 5-9 tall and weighs 160 pounds. james franklin lohr 47 years 6 feet, 160 pounds and both have
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warrants unrelated to the clements' case. but they're wanted as persons of interest because investigators say they have associated with evan ebel in the past and their names surfaced during the clements' homicide investigation. if you have any information on the whereabouts of guolee and lohr please call 719-390-5555, and of course, if you see them do not approach these men, they're considered armed and dangerous. celebrately we have a copy of a letter that ebel wrote to a woman named shauna. and it was confiscated and used in the sentencing hearing for a conviction in the case where he punched a guard. it reads, i fantasize catching them out on the bricks and subjecting them to vicious torture and eventual murder and that seems to get me through the days with a good degree of my sanity remaining intact. now, that sentencing hearing,
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by the way, is the one are the judge attempted to sentence ebel to four additional years in prison, to ebel, but because of a clerical error, he was released early. >> megyn: that's unbelievable. thank you. here is background now on the 2-11 crew, apparently takes it from the california penal code for robbery. it's said to start after a black inmate beat a white inmate to death in arkansas in the '90s. following na incident inmate benjamin davis founded a gang for white inmate protection. and davis may still be running the gang from behind bars. and members are said to be rehe krr recruited in prison and once released making money for this gang. once a member, always a member. if the member tries to break from the gang it could result in retaliatory violence. back now to our top story from last hour, the pentagon is now
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confirming intelligence had a shows north korea's moving around some mobile missile launchers. the movement indicates a possible test launch, this comes hours after the north declared it's prepared to attack america with nuclear weapons. u.s. officials are increasingly concerned about the erratic behavior of the young kim jong-un. we don't know a lot about this, but what we do is rather strange. we're told he was doted on by his mommy reportedly called the morning star king from a young age. and there are reports he may have had plastic surgery to make him look more like his grandpa. and he's obsessed with basketball and friends say he spend hours with pencil pictures of michael jordan. and we'll get to den minis rodman. the author of "hell or
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richmond" yesterday on the program i said he's like the fat prince whose parents wouldn't discipline him. and picture his mother, king morning star, whatever he wants, whatever he wants. and his mother was thought to be kim jong il favorite wife. >> and a friend compared him to young king geoffrey in "game of thrones", is it that we know so little, and schooling in switzerland and it's supposition. we know he's got a wife early, mid 20's, attractive. don't know much about her. we do know he was doted on and we also know, this guy is in charge, at least nominally of budding nuclear power. and so, it's very, very hard
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for us to get any firm intelligence from within the north korean system. we don't know, we, the government and intelligence community. we don't know if he is fully in control and knows his country's limits and is indeed bluffing to try to drive concessions from south korea and u.s.? we don't know if the generals are lying to them because they've been consuming north korea's resources and lying about the real capabilities and could be extreme and think he could attack america. and the third possibility, there's faction fighting going on and he's set up for embarrassment and a fall from power. that's an outlyer, this isn't intelligence work, this is desk work. >> megyn: people want to know if we should believe the
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threats? this a 28-year-old, w know how old he is. is he trying to threaten to get what he wants from the united states which has worked repeatedly from his father and others in the past, or is this somebody who is really gearing up for a nuclear attack against america or american interests? i mean, you look at, my mother says you judge on whether they have an adult relationship with the truth. i don't know that he has a adult relationship with the the truth. remember the father who, on his first game of pga-- of golf on a pga course, a 18-hole course, he amazingly hit 11 holes in won and there were 17 witnesses there to see it. you tell me whether the off-spring of that guy is someone we should be trusting. >> and the father and grandfather seemed much more balanced and sane than this guy, at least retorically. we cannot trust him. the intelligence community is watching and so far we've seen
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no major mobilization of the reserves or troop movements. although there are hundreds of underground tunnels that we could not know what's going on. and the missiles to get us alarmed? we don't know for certain whether or not he has a single nuclear warhead that could be delivered in some means, but when you don't know, obviously, you prepare for the worst. >> megyn: can i ask you about the rodman weirdness? because weirdly, that has some sort of a calming effect on some americans when you see this guy threatening us with nuclear war, palling around with dennis rodman. this is so bizarre. what was it about a month ago and let's just listen to rodman's take on this bizarre leader. >> his country like him, not like him, love him. love him. guess what? yeah, yeah, i love him. i love this guy, awesome.
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>> megyn. >> megyn: yes. >> that just made my case. we know so little about this guy, we're relying on the strategic thinking of dennis rodman. i mean, come on, megyn, we can-- this really is scary and the problem, i think, immediately is that south korea now has a new stronger president, she's one tough cookie and i don't mean that condescendingly, tough iron if you prefer. and in the past, kim jong-il a south korean vessel, and sinking, and they may be thinking and miscalculating they could do it again. it's not a planned attack to take south korea, but spiraling out of control. we have a defense pact with south korea, the bullets a
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flying and we are in it. and we look at our own president an and whether he can overcome the complex and respond swiftly in a crisis and effectively. >> megyn: kim jong-un is apparently a huge fan of american basketball and not only loves rodman, but jordan and loves kobe bryant and somebody from the chicago bulls and i'm thinking we station each one of those guys in the different places in the united states and south korea and our best option and turning on those guys. >> one thinking, i've seen it repeatedly in my military career and after, whenever the leader of a rogue state shows interest in the western states, he must not be-- the dying soviet union, a
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andbropov, he liked novels, don't trust him. >> megyn: thank you. growing reports of a former members of a '60s, revolutionary group, a domestic terrorist, is now teaching at columbia university. we'll speak today to the one of the sons of men of the men that she murdering. >> and referring to basketball players by gay slurs, received widespread support yesterday, but eric bolling of "the five" joins us to tell us why he believes it's not only the wrong thing to do to fierm him, but highlights a growing problem raising kids in this country. >> here is the question, are we better off as a nation with the p.c. and wimp-- the wusscation and basically making men chihuahuas?
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>> >> well, the now former rutgers basketball coach mike rice is getting a $100,000 bonus despite being fired over a controversial video showing him cussing and hitting players in the heads with a basketball. there's been a media outcry over the coach's actions. many asked why it took so long. they disciplined him in december, but didn't fire him until now. but eric bolling has a completely different take on it. >> this story kind of infuriates me. the political correctness crushing our abilities to teach kids, to discipline kids, to disagree with people or one another or kids. our culture is in decline, but this is an example of our culture in freefall. i'm saying because he got fired not because of what he
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did. it's time to talk about the wussification of america and american men. i got a paddle, i did something wrong in gym and it's a paddle and whack you across the back of the legs and never messed around in that class again. >> megyn: joining me now eric bolling, co-host of "the five". >> okay, so, i kind of went out and defended, but clarified something, i did say that the gay slurs were off limits and never have done, he should never have done that and got fined and went through sensitivity training. i don't think that mr. rice should have been fired for the other things. i understand he was fired for throwing the basketballs at the guys. >> megyn: beaning them in the head and torso-- >> he's a tough coach. megyn, i'm an athlete. if someone's a bully i'll get in his face, too, but i've played for coaches like that, played for a lot of coaches
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like that. >> megyn: put hands on you. >> the best coaches are coaches like that. there was no hits, no slaps. people are e-mailing, they are livid with me, how can you say this? we're so afraid to discipline our kids and disagree with what they're doing. everybody gets a participation trophy. there are no winners or losers in life, in america anymore. we're wussifying american men and can you imagine if a drill sergeant in the marines wasn't allowed to get in someone's face and yell at them? we'd be losing wars. >> megyn: i see that point and about the school. and my husband and i looked at a school, there is no winning and if you speak at a pep rally submit your remarks to the principal unless you say something that's offensive to the student body. we used to have a way of self-correcting. and the community would have a way of showing it's bad. but the physical stuff, when i
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saw that, i don't like seeing the guys get treated that way and picture my own children, if i saw someone treating my own children that way at a university where, i don't know if they're all paying tuition because they're star athletes, but beaning in the heads with basketball. >> hold on a second. i don't see what's awful. he grabs a guy the back of the shirt. gets in his face, and grabs the shirt. he throws the ball a couple of times throws it at his feet. >> they can't fight back. but the reaction of the kids. they're not being singled out. it's not one kid getting singled out. >> megyn: that don't matter it's degrading to be hit in the back of head with a basketball. >> you can't go down the 12th floor on fox and do this. i came back from harassment training yesterday, yesterday, and there are certain situations where different rules apply. it's an athletic field. it's a sports court. the rules are different there. by the way-- >> how far could you take it, punch somebody in the the
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face. >> there are no punches being drawn. physically hitting somebody with a. >> megyn: what about a baseball. could your son get hit in the head with a baseball. >> af been hit in the the head, in the back. i've had a coach tell a pitcher put it in the middle of the back, he did. whatever i got that for, i didn't do it again. this is what happens on the sports field. if they set the bar at you can't grab a guy's shirt or throw a ball at his feet, you probably have to he eliminate anywhere between half and two-thirds of the coaches in america. >> megyn: don't you see the degradation? what it does about your self-esteem and makes you feel bad. and we're talking about how they're banning dodgeballs and i've had bad experience, i was the one. but you know, and i he see, i see your argument about wussification, but when it comes to physical humiliation where you feel degraded and hurt in front of others who
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you respect, it has an emotional effect that can't be helped. >> perhaps, or it has an effect where you learn to brush it off, get back in the batters box, put your helmet back on and go hit the ball. i mean, my son and i watched that, i dvr's that second. >> megyn: and showing-- >> no, the segment where he saw me standing up for mike rice. we looked it and and he said dad, are you sure you can do that and that's okay? eric, if you're he standing around and being lazy, yeah, i'm okay with that. and he kind of looked at me,all right. there's a lesson to be learned. don't we need to toughen up a little bit? listen, the american culture is in an absolutely freefall right now. american men need to get it back, get it back. >> megyn: it may not be just the men. the women aren't playing dodgeball either or playing the sports that allow to win. we need to be tough because once we're out there we'll be facing you. >> no slurs, no gay slurs, i'm
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not for that. >> megyn: and eric bolling, 5 p.m. and a judge on a sex change with the taxpayers footing the bill. latest in kelly's court. of staying active and strong. ensure high protein... fifty percent of your daily value of protein. low fat and five grams of sugars. [ major nutrition ] ensure! nutrition in charge! by the armful? by the barrelful? e carful? how about...by the bowlful? campbell's soups give you nutrition, energy, and can help you keep a healthy weight. campbell's. it's amazing what soup can do.
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>> we have been following a deadly shooting at fort knocks army base, it happened in the parking lot outside of the human resources and command center. agents are investigating the attack and say it was not a random act of violence and it was some sort of personal incident. this is located outside of louisville, kentucky, and the depository that holds much of the nation's gold he reserves.
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a big jump in the weekly unemployment numbers at that came out earlier today. jobless claims increasing to 385,000, the third straight weekly increase we'v. and there are a number of stories about the jobs that are created and peter doocy has it live in washington. >> reporter: megyn, the lower wage jobs are created two and a half times than the mid wage or higher wage jobs. lower wage jobs only made up 21% of losses during the recession and are now responsible for 58% of recovery growth according to the national employment project. and we've also got a list that shows specifically which low wage jobs are being created and it shows right now a 47% increase in food prep workers, over the last decade. the 24% increase in customer
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service he rerepresents. 15% more secretaries and 12% more waiters and have also been gains in retail sales positions and janitors, and since the higher wage jobs are so much harder to come by, the low wage positions are filled by college graduates. >> college grads, grads of all kinds are facing stiff competition from not only older workers, but from people who have come out the last several years of a very tough job market and they're clogging up the space. so, college grads, a lot of them are coming out to take jobs just to make sure that ends meet. >> reporter: that man, john challenger told me that employers like to see college grads take on lower wage jobs because it looks better than a blank spot on a resume'. but the flip side with so many people with degrees working as waiters and many of the folks who would normally fill the
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positions are left jobless. >> megyn: thank you, peter doocy, thank you so much. new evidence in the case of a convicted murderer who is getting a sex change operation on the taxpayer's dime. kelly's court is on the case. and revealing that a convicted domestic terrorist wound up as an adjunct professor at columbia. she's teaching there now. this woman served decades for murdering three innocent people. up next, the son of one of those victims shares his thoughts about her prestigious rebound. >> when the cops are killed we give them a nice funeral, tell them we'll never forget, but it seems a sad state that we forget pretty quickly. what? customers didn't like it. so why do banks do it? hello? hello?! if your bank doesn't let you talk to a real person 24/7,
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>> new reaction today to a story we brought you earlier this week. back in 1981, a group of student radicals, domestic terrorists, known as the weather underground robbed an armored car in new york state and killed three people in the process, including two police officers and this brinks guard. a father of three, peter page, in fact, all of the murdered victims had children. the driver of the getaway car, kathy boudin, and the new york post reported that she has been since 2008 teaching in a prestigious post at ivy
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league's columbia university. on the phone with reaction is michael page, the son of the brinks guard killed in that heist, and john, who says the weather underground tried to kill him and his entire family as well. thank you for being here, michael, let me start with you on the phone. your reaction to the news that the person who admits she murdered your father is now teaching at columbia university. >> well, i just found this out, you know, through the article that you referenced, that you just spoke about through an article in "the post" yesterday. i'm sitting in my office and i open up the paper and i see that, you know, that this is mentioned and you know, i was shocked. shocked and disgusted, can't believe that a murderer can obtain a job at a university as a professor. >> megyn: some of her defenders have said she served
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her time, you know, a fresh start and she wasn't actually the trigger person in this crime. she was the get away driver. your thoughts in response to that? >> well, you know, serving your time, you know, her time will never be served. you know, her so-called debt to society will never be paid. i mean, she robbed a brinks truck, she not only robbed the brinks truck that day, you know, she murdered three men, my father, and two police officers. and you know, she robbed my father and those officers of everything that they worked for there, in their entire lives. you know, their families, their children. and everything. robbed my mother of her husband. robbed the other officers of their wives as well, i mean, it's -- you know, she robbed us as children of our father. she took everything from us. this is a murderer. i mean, her debt will never be paid.
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>> megyn: and our viewers should know the weather underground is a group, they were against the vietnam war and rather than talking to the streets like so many did to make the point clear, they decided to pom domestic targets and kill some people in the process and she served in jail. michael, i want to know whether she reached out to your family to apologize or make amends in any way? >> no, and she could never do that anyway. there's nothing that this person could ever do or anybody else that was involved in this. she took away our father, she did what she did it that day and there's no going back. the day that she could bring my father back and the two officers, have them come back into our lives, that's the day she should have gotten out of jail. as far as i'm concerned, she should be be in jail. should have gotten the death penalty. plain and simple, she's a murderer and that's the way it is. >> megyn: john, let me bring
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you in on this. you were a nine-year-old boy, asleep in your bed and a bomb went off and that bomb was thought to have been targeting your dad, a new york supreme court state justice trying a controversial case. no one was officially blamed for it, but it was widely understood that the weather underground was responsible. >> let me say it's sad, but an honor to be on with michael, in fact, someone did take responsibility for the bombing of my house, in 1970, bernadine dorn, the wife of bill ayers, the founder of the underground wrote a letter six months after the attack, and at the same time attacked a spli police station and a recruiting station and yesterday bill ayers was on the daily beast and described what they did was property damage and vandalism and said he never hurt anybody.
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as far as i'm concerned. kat kathy bowden and bill ayers and others had blood on their hands and any other organizations that would shelter them. >> megyn: bill ayers and bernadine dorn, by the way, raised the toddler child of kathy boudin, the underground mother who killed michael's father and they raised him and decided to commit the crime while he's a toddler and bill ayers may be familiar to some of our viewers, in his living room barack obama launched his campaign many, many years ago. and these two raised chesta boudin the son of the woman now teaching at columbia. i want to ask whether you think, john, there is a point at which somebody's served their crime and can be rehabilitated. i understand the subject she's teaching at columbia is essentially reentering society
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after having been convicted as a felon. >> megyn, people serve their time and have an opportunity to enter society. ironically my wife volunteers for the church program here in westchester county that helps men coming out of singh-singh and that's fine, but you can never pay back mr. page, or the o'grady family or the brown family for the loss they suffered, a cold blooded murder. ironically and coincidentally, a friend of mine, off duty corrections officer happened to be crossing the tappan zee bridge moments after he died. and that's what she's responsible for and bill ayers is responsible for. there's no making up for that, no paying back for that and we haven't discussed the fact that robert redford is trying to get an oscar next year by
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lyonnizing these people in a new movie. >> megyn: and i was about to get to that. would you want your child, when they get to columbia, is that who you want teaching them? on the subject of the movie about to come out. and robert redford is in in shia labeouf, and the usual cast. and glorifying the crime that led to the death of michael's father and two other officers. and michelle malkin posted excerpts of the reviews, variety called the film unabashedly heart felt, but competent tribute to 1960's idealism. saying there's undeniably compelling or romantic about the '60s radicals and the compromises they did or did not make. michael, i imagine you have a very different view of this? >> well, you know, this is the first that i'm hearing about this, as well. but you know, if this is true,
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then and somebody's making a movie about this, you know, i think it's sick. i think that the-- you know, a movie is is a movie and a movie is supposed to take you away from reality. if somebody's making a movie based on the brinks robbery the death of my father and the two officers, i'm at a loss for words. i don't know what to say. >> megyn: they say it's loosely based on it. in this movie, the robbery takes place inside a bank, not with a brinks truck, but it's about the two criminals who were caught for the crime and robert redford we're told is sort of a fugitive on the run all of these years. and i want to ask you about it, john, one of the executives promoting the film came out and said, it's a -- it's an edge of your seat thriller about real americans who stood for their beliefs, thinking they were patriots, and defending their country's ideals against their government. >> it may or may not be an edge of your seat thriller, we'll have to wait it will
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it's out. the only ones it's focused on are terrorists, criminals, misguided radicals. let's not forget after boudin fire bombed my home and my family slept in their beds and i slept in my bed. they were packing nail bombs to attack army recruits at fort dix, and they were cold-blooded killers. bill ayers in an interview with the new york times, so we don't think that time has tempered anything. an interview in the new york times, ironically, on september 11th, 2001, bill ayers was asked if he would rule out violence again? he said, no. asked if he had done enough? he said no. these people 40 years later are still bent on destruction and have no remorse for the tragedies they've created and the lives they damaged.
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>> megyn: it's unbelievable. he was at, i think university of illinois, right, chicago, john, for all of those years, bill ayers. >> and that's right. >> megyn: and bernadine dorn at northwestern university and now we've got this other, this other woman now at columbia university. and she was honored by new york university as well, kathy boudin. this is the state and how they wound up and whether there's any sort of disdain on that movement. i talked with michelle malkin how you've got casey anthony acquitted of killing her child even though most of us believe she did it struggling to sell a book because people don't want her to reward for her actions and this is a woman admits she kills three law enforcement officers ap columbia university says welcome aboard. love to give you some money and expose our nation to it. >> and worst still, we have a generation who doesn't know the story and will never understand it. >> megyn: john thank you, and michael thank you as well. and follow me on twitter, let
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me know what you think: @megyn kelly, wow. up next kelly's court on the new controversy after a judge approved a taxpayer-funded sex change operation for a convicted murderer. new developments.
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. >> kelly's court is back in session today. robert is in jail and he a sex change operation is a medical necessity and that the citizens of the state of massachusetts has to pay for it. kisile kch kisilek has them pay for it and last year it was ordered on the taxpayer dime. now an appeal is headed up the line and arguments are just
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being heard. joining me now a fox news legal analyst and a prosecutor and former defense attorney. now, this is under review and a federal appeals court has just heard arguments whether the lower court ruling can stand. tom, i ask you, i understand the torture of gender identity disorder. you know, the torture that that is for somebody, but a convicted murderer who strangled his wife so badly she was almost decapitated, should they really be getting that operation on the taxpayer's dime? >> absolutely not. it's an outrageous use of resources and it's an outrageous waste of taxpayer dollars. this is one. reasons i'm in favor of itemized taxes. let the taxpayers in massachusetts when they get their bill at the end of the year have a line by line item and see this is the type of things their dollars are going
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for. the 8th amendment prevents the state-- or forbids the state from inflicting, inflicting cruel or unusual punishment. is the argument-- or the proponents of this use of resources going to argue that by depriving someone of an elective surgical procedure, which by the way, if he was a civilian, he might very well not have the resources to even afford because it's quite expensive. is not spending taxpayer dollars on something like this the state inflicting cruel and unusual punishment? comen. >> it's not elective here and that's why the judge got it right. it's not an elective parade. this is needed for mental illness. it's categorized as a mental illness. this is why the judge said this.
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he tried to cast strrated. he chose to lead the life of a heterosexual and we know he killed his wife. >> megyn: you're blaming the murder on the gender identity. >> no, tongue in cheek, i apologize. when someone like this certainly needs this type of treatment and even the doctors said, we can't help him any further. and the therapy is not helping, the therapy sessions are not helping. >> megyn: that's the thing, and his lawyer, her lawyer argues that she is tortured and came out and said, she's-- she, michelle, is going to try to kill herself if she doesn't get it done. here is her lawyer, listen. >> one of the doctors testified that he thought there was a very high likelihood, almost 100% that she would attempt suicide or other self-mutilation.
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>> megyn: tom? >> megyn, look, i'm not here to debate whether this is legitimate surgery or not or whether someone can have a mental illness that requires this type of procedure. what i suggest we do is look at what the 8th amendment says, and ask ourselves, is the state inflicting cruel and unusual punishment on this inmate? let's go back to 1848 very quickly. that was the first time the supreme court was ever asked to decide what is meant by cruel and unusual punishment. you know what they said, cruel and unusual punishment. beheading, burning alive, dissecting. and it now is not providing a sex change operation. >> megyn: i don't have a lot of sympathy for convicted murderers, not guys who strangle their wives to the point of decapitation.
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whether we like these convicts or not, they do have an 8th amendment right to be free from cruel and unusual punishment once they're in prison. >> exactly. >> megyn: however, there's debate even within the transgender community whether this person is entitled to that operation. we'll play that sound right after the break. [ male announcer ] this is george. the day building a play set begins with a surprise twinge of back pain... and a choice. take up to 4 advil in a day or 2 aleve for all day relief. [ male announcer ] that's handy. ♪ yeah?
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>> here's an interview mercedes that was done with at least one transgender person went from male to female, and her thoughts. >> if that be the case, then it's cruel and unusual punishment to deny me, and how many other hundreds of girls are going to come out of the woodwork and say, we, too, want to be women-somebody's got to pay for this. i think the government's paying for too much already. >> about what that? >> mains a good point but dollars cents, makes more sense
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to give the accommodation to this man. transgender, cross-dressers, in the prison system are put in protective custody. that's a tremendous drain on tax dollars. you give this individual gender re-assignment, they can at that point make a decision to place them in -- he's in prison with men. now he is anatomically female. he should be able to be put in the million's detention center. >> really? now you get a get out of male prison free card, if you can get a sex change operation funded by the taxpayers? i don't know that anybody would go so far as to claim they were transgender. >> $50,000 is how much it costs. >> wow, the department of corrections is going to have a lot to deal with. >> you're setting a precedent where someone who might -- whether this ised inned or not, it's an elective procedure, and
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you're setting a precedent where some -- >> tom, who is going elect to do this? can we set strat straight? >> too people who want this operation who can not afford it. and so they will now be in a worse position than those who killed their spouses. but they can say, i have a medical ill sentence and get their insurance to pay for it. >> that's not recognized be insurance companies. >> insurance will not pay for everything she has received. you look at most insurance policies there are criteria upon which someone can gate sex change operation, but their very specific. they will not pray for breast august -- augmentation. >> the taxpayers have already paid for that. and we'll see if they have to pay for the whole bit. okay, team! after age 40, we can start losing muscle --
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