tv America Live FOX News June 4, 2013 10:00am-12:01pm PDT
2.6 miles wide. no surprise it is an ef5 and enhanced power five tornado, most powerful there is. 296 miles per hour winds on that tornado. america live starts right now. the irs under attack. heated hearings raise new red flags in the agency's targeting of conservative groups. i am megyn kelly. we'll get right to it. an audit in the irs found unprens precedented the targeting of political of enemies like the nixon administration. who ordered it? why don't we know that yet? why did they do it? and how high up as it goes?
the inspector general said he did not get answers. >> who ordered them to use extra skrutine and punish and postpone and deny? has that been asked of any employee? >> yeah, during our audit, congressman, we posed that question and no one acknowledged if anyone provided that question. >> so no one acknowledged who gave the directive to do this? >> that's correct. questioned during the audit phase of this. >> unbelievable. chris is our fox editor and host of power play on fox news.com, live. >> like i used to give my mother excuses for my bad behavior and she would say not acceptable. who gave the order? the worry is no one would
acknowledge who gave the order. you know what? not acceptable. >> the family circus had a character not me. not me did it. and that's what we have so far from the employees, well, it wasn't me. well, who was it? >> i am not telling. that tells us a great deal. it is probably is somebody who is in a position of authority great enough that they don't wish to name that name at this point. their direct boss or who in washington and how high does it go? the mind reels. >> the cincinnati fox affiliate has been doing good work on this case. that is the structure of the irs case out there and this is the closest we came to having names. in the bottom there is line
agents and some of the people who is not out letters and so o. and their top cindi thomas whose name hasn't been mentioned a lot in the hearings. they all answered to her and had different managers and all reported to cindi thomas. and cindi thomas' boss was in each one of these interviews that the inspector general conducted. and the law makers raised the point, do you think that might have been chilling for the line employees and for you to be asking, who ordered you to do this? when you have the bosses boss's boss sitting there maybe they didn't want to answer. >> just pointing over here? the truth is here, that we know
that the danger for the administration and the danger for president obama and the danger for his team lies in the moment that this starts to flow back up the organizational chart. it goes back up the chart. it is been to shove it down to the lowest rung and say they are rogue agents and peons and were wrong headed and mistaken. they hold the key and they have the name and they will not give the name until two things occurred. one thing is they are not afraid and that person has been taken out of office and put on a lead and isolated and tell an investigator who it is. you have to give him immune immuneitty. and i want to ask you this.
when this thing first broke, democrats and republicans went after the irs representatives on capitol hill and i made the comment in listening to the questioning, you couldn't tell who the republicans and democrats were and that is rare on capitol hill. we have learned that douglas shulman, the irs commissioner during the time in question, a bush appointee and nonetheless visited the white house one pen times and his predecessor visited one time. and not only that, we learned that his wife has strong anti- republican sentiment that she publicly expressed. and whether that tells us something i leave to the viewers to decide. we learned that the irs employees gave interviews and said this goes to dc. >> and now today, at the hearing
for the house ways and means committee, well, it was a shift in tone and led paul ryan to suggest they were blaming the victim. this is jim mcdermont. >> it is highly political from opposing the president's reform and gay marriage and all entrenched in the controversial political issues in the country and with your applications, you to pay for that work. >> what a difference. so basically, what did you expect the irs to do? >> right to pay for that work. they are not paying taxes on it. and the people are paying for it and i can't quite follow that one. but the attitude there that said don't be surprised that you were singled out and punished,
because you were taking on controversial issues. and if you take on controversial issues, bad things will happen to you. that is not a stance that democrats would be comfortable with dissent matters and speak truth to power and hear somebody say you were talking about controverse yell on on controversial things and dealing with those signatures and so don't be surprised if you get a spanking from the irs. that is not a space where democrats are comfortable remaining and the flight from that would be rapid. nmcdermont was very comfortable. i will play a lot of what he had to say to those women, one of those who were in tears, his
response what do you expect? we'll have a debate on the tone coming up at 1:30 here. >> this morning in washington, a half dozen people whose organizations were targeted, detailed the scrutiny and donors that the irs had no right to know and the position on the political issues. and another as i referenced a moment ago broke down in tears. >> i am a born- free american woman, wife, mother and citizen, and i am telling my government that you have forgotten your place. it is not your responsibility to look out for my well-being and monitor my speech or assert the agenda. many agencies of the federal
government do not understand they are servants of the people. they think they are our masters and they are mistaken. i am not interested in scoring political points, i want to protect and preserve the america i grew up in and the america that people cross oceans and risk their lives to be a part of. >> wait until you hear the response to her was. i will play it for you coming up right here and we'll play more of the woman's testimonial and shut us down. the hearings and one goes one after the other. it was the substance of the message. we'll speak with her attorney jay sekulow next how in americaning live. >>? rock land county new york, authorities are on the scone of what they think may be a gas
explosion on the building on the campus of na yck college. we are hearing sen people are injured and many were trapped and were trapped and the force of the explosion were set to blow out doors and windows. >> and the gas smell, and the communication's director said there was a small gas smell and they are not ruling out anything which is why the bomb 62ed is on the scene. it is 25 miles outside of new york city. the building looks strange. it used to be a country club and they are saying it happen 45 minutes ago. we believe there are seven injuries and two of them said to be fairly serious. some of the victims were thrown out windows and most of the injuries are minor. the explosion was so strong. and look at that if you will.
this is 3,000 students strong. it is strange, we are hearing that the seven injuries, six of them were staff members and only one is a student. that makes sense and most colleges are out for the summer. the communication's director said they have the bomb squad on the scene and number of first responders and ambulances and we learn more about the cause, megyn, it is unclear as to what caused it. >> the doj has a new defense over lying to congress. and law makers are not satisfied. former doj prosecutor explained why the questions to mr. holder's going to back to the controversy. oscar pistorias headed back to
court today. detective mark furman how the leaked photos of the crime scene tell a powerful story on the night oscar's girlfriend was killed. wait until you hear this. or good decisions? ones i've made. ones we've all made. about marriage. children. money. about tomorrow. here's to good decisions. who matters most to you says the most about you. at massmutual we're owned by our policyowners, and they matter most to us. ready to plan for your family's future? we'll help you get there.
a senior administration official conif i wered to fox news there is still full confidence in eric holder in the highest levels of the white house. this comes less than 24 hours after the justice department offered a new defense against the accusation that attorney general eric holder lied to congress about what he knew or didn't know about the prosecutions of the members of the press. andrew mccarty is a former doj prosecutor and used to put terrorist in jail for a living. law makers wrote holder a letter, we think you may have
lied when you told us that you never heard of the potential prosecution for the member of the press. and so holder comes out. not himself, but an underling and writes as follows. prosecutors have not pursued charges against the reporter, talking about james rosen. >> at no time in seeking the search warrant had prosecutor sought approval to bring charges against the reporter. they becomely said,ine though holder never heard of a potential prosecution and never been involved, he's exan -- exonerated. >> i had a number of perjury cases over the years. one prove that it was not perjury and what the guy said was true. the other way to look at a statement made under oath and see if there is a way to parse
the words and so if you can argue literal accuracyine if there is an intent to deceive. what you are having here is a parsing between the investigation and prosecution. >> i feel like it is neither. it is out of bounds. we never brought anything. forget that stuff about potential. >> it is remarkable for them to be taking that position. rosen was the search warrant issued because they represented he was involved in the espion age records. >> right. and so they are saying well, well, well. we never intended to prosecute him. under the privacy protection act you have to represent that the reporter is compliceit in a crime in order to get a search warrant. the reason they wrote it in they don't want reporters to be
subpeona unless they have decided to be serious enough to warrant prosecution. i would have felt you duty bound, we ahead a decision for prosecutions of the reporter, i would have told the j. we think he is compliceit but we will not go after him. we just want the information. >> that's what this is about. they didn't want to notify james and they labelled him as they labelled him. no, i never would have? >> if you decide not to prosecute. you don't write in the warrant that you think he might be a fugitive. and in this same affidavit talked about how he faced potential criminal liability. >> if the u.s. courts think that the justice department is
playing that kind of game to the courts, good luck getting search warrant. >> it is an erosion of trust between the officers of the court and the attorney general and his staff. you have a piece on the national review on line. this is not the first time there is a breach of trust by eric holder with the public and with the congressional law makers before whom he testified. you take it all the way back to the confirmation testimony when he was confirmed in '09. viewers may know who mark rich is? >> mark rich was one of the ten most wanted fugitive. he was a tax cheat and et cetera, and he was scandal s scandalously pardoned on the last day of the clinton administration based on an off line pardon process that holder
who was deputy general designed for mark rich and so that president clinton would not get input from the prosecutor about what a serious offender rich was. >> it was a big deal. how did rich get pardoned and it was a deal when eric holder was nominated and picked in the top spot. he testified about what he did or did not know about mark rich. >> that was a mistake i made. i didn't acquaint myself with his record. upon i anyhow it was a tax fraud case and i knew he was a fugitive, but i didn't know the underlying facts. >> true? >> when holder was the u.s. attorney for the strict of colombia in 1995, his office had a year long investigation in mark rich's company and got
a settlement and the government got 1.2 million and holder put out a press statement and the wall street journal covered it. where he explained that they had looked at mark rich for a year and looked at his companies and mistakements involved. >> they knew him well? >> yeah, theyth investigated him for a year. >> it was great familiaritty. >> he claimed he only knew about it in a certain date. you say look. congress has the responsibility to look into these folks who are confirmed at the time. and when they ignore red flags, they do so at their peril. >> not only that, mark rich and the latest high jinx.
>> fox news alert on the top story. a dramatic moment on the house ways and means committee. it came as congressman mike kelly was wrapping up his questions to the conservative groups targeted bite tax agency. watch here as congressman kelly addresses the political attacks we heard. >> isn't it incredible what you are going through to have your
first amendment rights. this is not just in cincinnati but in the dope bowels of the government. if we can't stop the government sponsored fear, we are coming up short on what the oath is that we took. i am sick of hearing it is about republicans or democrats. this is america. we took an oath of office not to defend just some. we tock an oath to defend the constitution. do not give up on. this if you can drive their office high enough. it cost me 60,000 to get the membership back. i was able to get back what the government stole to me. isn't that a novel. stay the course and do not give up and spread the word. do not be afraid of the
government. it is only when we fear the government we lose. this government is supposed to serve the people and the people not serve it. we have your back. keep up the fight. >> in five minutes we'll speak about key moments we observed where some on the committee, high- ranking democrats seemed to be challenging the witnesses, seeming in the eyes of some. we heard paul ryan to respond to blame the victims of what happened in the irs. we'll talk about what that was in a fair and balanced debate moments from now. growing concern that a suspected terrorist could use his own murder trial to send jihaddist hate messages. this after the judge ruled that the shooter in the fort hood
massacre can represent himself. and he is charged with killing some and wounding out in the at shooting spree. >> as soon as he was able to represent himself. he's paralyzed and the judge did in court several times tell him it is a bad idea. legal experts say has an is not trying to avoid the death.but advance the platform for radical islam and jihad. others had defended himself and used his defense to justify his actions to rail against the united states. and the biggest case in the question of has an, what it means for the victims of the shooting who will be crossed by the man who is accused of shooting them. this attorney is representing the victims. >> now our victims are going to
be in court, confronting hassan and have to provide information and testify to. we believe it is incumbent on the government to protect these victims, the way that any victim has the right to be protected in court. >> experts say the judge can try to contain hassan. he is free to ask outrageous. his legal council will stay on the case to make sure there are no legal errors. >> these are people whom are suffering from ptsd as a result of the shooting and as a result of hassan shooting them and now imagine you are under the care of a psychologist for being shot repeatedly, and you now sit on the witness stand and let him
cross examine you on the moment he did it. trace, i thank you. one of nadal has an's victims was shot by him sen times. and he lost part of theie sight. and he had to undergo extensive counciling in the wake of what happened to him and we'll talk to him now to the thought of this man challenging him directly and we are told he will be offering a provokative defense. we'll talk about it coming up. >> detective mark furman said the leaked photos from the murder trial of olympian pistorias killed model reeves
camp camp. and folked went up to testify on how they were targeted by the irs. and taxpayers deserve to know which side the groups are on. what a shift. that debate is next. >> the committee will be in order. ryan has the time. >> mr. chairman. >> we had the former irs commissioner shul man who knew about targeting. they chose to apply for tax exempt status. you are to blame is the message here.
>> our top story today. some americans go before congress to tell law makers firsthand how the irs targeted them. and democrats on the house ways and means committee went after the witnesses suggesting they asked for the treatment they got. >> each of the groups is highly political from opposing the health care and abortion and gay marriage. you are entrenched in the controverse yell issues in the country and with your applications, you are asking the american public to pay for that work. you endorse candidates the line
of political activities can be very fine. it is important that the taxpayers, the taxpayers know which side you fall on, it is clearly wrong. it was inept and stupid and a lot of other things, let's not get lost in the bush administration liberal groups were targeted without concern of anyone on the committee. the republicans looked for a conspiracy. i haven't heard a single question of what questions we ask you about the tax exempt request. and like the circ is and the oversight committee here is simply political theater. >> the committee will be in order and ryan has the time. >> mr. chairman. we have former irs commissioner shul man who anyhow about it. and the organizations were
responsible because they chose to apply. so you are to blame is the message here? >> joining me is cindi marshal and chris plant host of the chris plant she. i say wow. what an exchange. you heard mcdermont objecting. he objected to paul ryan trying to challenge what he said. that was an extraordinary exchange, chris? >> yeah, congressman mcdermont unencumbered by sdensy and honesty decided to attack the people who were targeted by their political beliefs by the vicious arm. governments. the irs. and he misrepresented. it is not envogue to call people
liars in washington d.c., but the irs did not target liberal groups in the bush administration and congressman issa was not over the government oversight exitee and he made a phony claim that the head of the irs was appointed by bush and the congressman's dishonesty was outdone by shamelessness and vulgaritty of the defenses that were seeing launched are beyond anything i have seen in 25 years of watching washington closely which i have done in dc. it is worse than i have seen. it that is despicable and disgusting about this city. >> i watched the witnesses and the woman from iowa and the woman who almost broke down in tears. look, i am not a republican or
democrat, i am an american. and how one guy who said they sought records of children he attempted to teach and this is the response. does congressman mcdermont think he is going to be helped. >> he's frustrated and i do think that. >> he's frustrated. >> and yes, i hear you. but i think he's frustrated because he's saying what many people are saying and right are saying as well. we have four investigations. if you want a special prosecutor fine. this is horrendous. it was targeted and they were targeted because of their political ideology and that was wrong. chris, in 04 the two your investigation for na a cp for a adagainst president bush. and where i live in passa denna,
all sapts church was going to be having their tax exempt. >> i had the former irs commissioner on the program and i asked him about prior alleged allegations. and o'rielly asked him more specifically. he said there were incidents in which we reviewed the tax exempt status of groups that were working overt politically. but not in the front end, you have te party and you are going to the determination and lois and her friends will spend three years preventing you from getting the status in the first place, chris? >> it is the difference between people who are suspects in a murder case versus just rounding up the neighborhood by virtue of the fact it is convenient. i am in favor of taking the look of political activities of tax
exempt organization. that's not what happened here. and to pretend it is anything other than it s. you admitted leslie it is what it is. and then you attempted to obvisicate by bripging up two cases. look, congressman mcdermont went a round the bend. he is one of three democrats that accepted a trip to baghdad that was funded as it turned out by saddam hussein's intelligence. he is not steeped in integrity and attempting to lay down cover smoke is offensive. >> i am getting e-mails from other viewers one of whom said he tried to call congressman mcdermont's office to find out why it. and i pay that guy's salary and
i pay for the phone that guy hung up on me. leslie, last point by congressman mcdermont i haven't heard about the questions you think we ought to ask. why is that the obligation from the woman from iowa, they so screw it up at the irs in cincinnati and washington, that now the lady from iowa has to come in and say this is the way it needs to be done. how dare he put the burden on her? >> i don't feel it was that way. i took it rhetorically. you are saying the responsibility given by congress to the irs who does and does not deserve tax exempt status. there is a fine line. the te party not political? and any group left or right applying for the tax exempt status as americans and tax
exempt i want them to be scrutinized. some are political in nature and that is against what the supreme court stated could be under article 18. it was rhetorical. you can't just not have any scrutiny. >> the witnesses did not say we shouldn't have begin executiny. give us a list of the donors and that is not allowed and not okay. >> that is wrong. >> this is just an ongoing effort to obscure the facts of the case here. the facts of the case, conservative groups were targeted. and leading up in an election. and disrupt the political activities of grassroots organization that contributed to
governor christie on replacing frank la uten berg. >> it will be held 70 days after the issuance of the writ today. and then, 64 days thereafter, the general special election will be held on wednesday october 16th. the statute provides for the governor of new jersey to make the decision. if the governor domes it advisable to have a special election. i team it advisable and necessary. the dates are on what the statute requires and at the same time there is enough time to guarantee a fair process and voter engagement throughout. it must honor the will and rights of the people to have a choice and voice and timely elections and while there will
be a cost associated, the state will be responsible for all of the costs of this election. we are calling the special election and we'll be responsible for all of the associated costs. as such, the secretary of state's office will oversee the process and mechanisms required to make sure it runs smothly. i have confidence in their ability to do so. and in the end, the cost associated with the primary election in my mind cannot be measured against the value of having an elected representative in the united states senate with consequential issues debated or determined this year. citizens of new jersey need to have an elected representative to the united states senate and have it as soon as possible. i have yet to make the determination to whom i will
appoint the seat between now and the results of the october 16th special election and when i determine who that person is, i will make that announcement promptly. >> that is significant news and frank la un ten berg died and governor christie could have filled the cost or called for a special election. there was talk about putting him in a difficult position with respect to presidential election. if he chooses someone to the right or not far to the right. what would be the political fallout for chris christie. he said the election will take place on october 16th. and he has yet to decide who will hold the post between now
we are going to holdover for about 15 minutes to give him the time that that segment deserves. we are a little short due to the breaking news in new jersey. we want to bring you this story while we have you. new fallout from a controversial supreme court ruling that gives police nationwide the okay to collect dna swabs from those under arrest. not convicted, just under arrest. is that fair?
trace gallagher is live in l.a. trace? >> they called it the most important criminal procedural case the court has seen in decades. the court came down 5-4 on this one saying, yes, they can use a swab to get your dna from people arrested, but not convicted of a serious felony. liberal jus cities steven briar voted and anthony kennedy said this is all about reasonable saying, quote, taking and analyzing a cheek swab of the arrestee's dna is like fingerprinting and photographing , a booking procedure that is reasonable under the fourth amendment. justice scalia issued a scathing dissent saying again, quote, because of today's decision your dna can be taken and entered into a national database. if you are ever arrested, rightly or wrongly or for whatever reason. this will solve some extra crimes, to be sure, but so would taking your dna when ever you fly on an airplane. clearly as you might imagine the aclu is not happy about
the ruling. listen. >> this is not about identifying somebody who has committed a crime or been at the scene of a crime. this basically is to create a database that they can use for all kinds of purposes. >> by the way, 26 states already use that swab to collect dna. that is only for felonies up loaded to the national database. there was a case of alonzo jay king. he was convicted and connected by the swab for a rape back in 2003. his conviction though was tossed out because the maryland supreme court ruled that police need a warrant and reason to suspect him of a crime before they take his dna. as you might know, megyn, the court has been inundated with these cases in recent years. they are getting to them one by one. >> wow. another reason not to get arrested. trace, thank you. >> okay. shocking new allegations from a former senate candidate.
who says the woman accuse netted targeting scandal at the irs had it out for him well before this controversy ever came to light. coming up, we will hear how lois lerner reportedly tried to end this man's political career as he was making a hard run at dick durbin for the u.s. senate seat in illinois. and can you be criminally prosecuted when your dog attacks? the ground breaking case in california where a man is facing murder charges after his dogs killed a woman. that's in today's kelly's court. >> just thinking of how my wife's life ended is disturbing. it will always be disturbing.
fox news alert on new fallout in the fort hood shooting trial after a judge ruled the suspect can represent himself. bra a brand-new hour of "america live." welcome. i'm megyn kelly. it is the worst shooting at a military place. he screamed god is great in arabic before opening fire with two handguns in 2009 killing 13 people and injuring , in many cases severely, 32 others. joining me now by phone is one of those injury, sergeant alonso lunsford. he was shot seven times and blinded in one eye. sergeant, thank you for joining us.
your reaction to the news that this man is accused of shooting you and killing so many others will now have the opportunity to give openings and closing arguments and to sit you down on the witness stand andss-examine minute you. cross-examine you. >> it is a travisty. he tried to make a mockery of our justice system and our way of life. i feel he will use the trial as a platform to try to rally other extreme jihadists who tried to react in a negative manner as well as by him being a psychiatrist he knows what buttons to push to trigger our ptsd. what he fails to realize is that we are a smarter people. i will not let him push thoughts buttons. -- push those buttons. i will maintain my military bearings. >> i hadn't considered that in his psychiatric background and how he may use it to the
detriment of the witnesses he will cross-examine minute. i know expru been open -- and you have been open about the fact as any human being would that you have suffered post traumatic stress disorder as a result of being shot seven times in this incident. you saw a psychiatrist three times a week at one point. i know you told "people" magazine. how do you prepare yourself for that moment? this man gets to put you under oath and question you about what he did to you. >> i use the same preparation techniques i would have used before a game when i am coaching. it is a big game, a championship game. even if you face an opponent who is bigger, faster, stronger, as a coach you try to outwit your opponent. you out coach them. basically you motivate the masses. h the needs of the many are greater than the needs of the one. whatever happens to major
asan, he is convicted of his crime, and even if he pushes a button to trigger one of us to physically react on him, it is what he calls god's will and he will get what is coming to him. >> you were just doing your job that day when suddenly you felt a bullet hit the left side of your head, and then more bullets pounded into your back. are you prepared to testify that this was this man major nadal hassan who did this to you. do you feel you can sit on the witness stand and look him in the eye just as you did moments before he shot you and tell that story? >> i have no choice. i look at it as being a voice for the military, a voice for our people, and also being a voice to let all of those who follow him or want to be like him, that they cannot win. therefore, i will not show any fear. i will not cow -- cower and i
will show him who the bigger, stronger person is. i am not 6 foot 9 and a half for no reason. >> that's right. i know they call you big mac because you are a big man. i want to ask you though about this possibility that he is going to use this role to spew terrorist rhetoric. he has already given us a hint of where he is going talking about how he is going to use a defense of others strategy to defend his actions. others have done that to try to justify their killing of american service personnel or other americans when they are suggesting perhaps he was going to try to protect in his mind his fellow muslc1%& from american soldiers who he thought were about to go off and kill them. your thoughts on that? >> actually by him saying that is not true. he is a psychiatrist. he is a noncombatant. the weapon he use is self-defense. how can he be protecting someone when his job is to
screen soldiers who have psychological or stress issues. one. two, if he does use this to try to rally his people then they will also feel the wrath of what we call speak diplomacy. i don't think they really want to feel the wrath of the united states because they keep tinkering and toying around with it and they will feel the wrath when our rules of engagement that stop us from performing our job. >> sergeant lunsford you are a survivor of what happened at fort hood. you are not a victim. you have lead a life that is exemplary in the wake of a terrible attack. thank you for coming on and reacting with us here live. >> you are welcome. >> all the best to you, sir, and thank you for your service. hassan hade three-month delay to prepare his case, but that was denied. jury selection begins tomorrow. hassan was shot by the police in the attack.p&8mmez she paralyzed from the chest
down and that's why the judge had to ascertain whether he was physically capable of defending himself before saying he could do it. if convicted he faces the death penalty or life without parole. the military has not executed anyone since 1961. an update on our breaking news from the last hour. seven injuries reported in an explosion on a college campus just north of new york city. the powerful blast happened just before noon today.jñ#q the explosion blew out some windows of a building. authorities say there was a gas leak, but it is unclear whether it caused the explosion or if the explosion caused the leak or what exactly happened. a local under sheriff says it includes one student and six staff members and none of the injuries amazingly and thankfully are life-threatening. a story out of colorado today getting national attention as democrats facing -- a democrat facing a possible recall vote in a major battle over gun rights. recall efforts in the major battle over gun rights.
trace gallagher explains that. trace? >> the group of gun rights activists, megyn, needed 7,000 signatures to push it forward and they got 16,000 which is a big statement considering this would be the first ever recall of a state lawmaker in colorado history. colorado senate president john morris lead the passage of colorado's strict new gun laws. he even went on national tv and said he counseled his fellow senators to constituents' e-mails and vote for gun control. now here are some of the constituents. listen. >> senator morris shoo have listened to his constituents. >> people saw that and they were not happy. it was not the guy he hired. >> morris said he will fight the recall effort and will go over the signatures with a fine-tooth comb, all 16,000 of them. experts say there will likely be enough to push this forward. he also says he is keeping colorado safe from gun violence and that is worth his
political career. here is the state senator. >> this is a fight worth having. it is a fight swree already had on the senate floor and a fight worth winning. do nothing was not an option. >> so here is the way it works. the signatures go to the secretary of state who has 15 days to contest or agree that at least 7200 signatures are valid and force a recall. the election is then set by the governor. voters in morse's senate district would then vote. the gun rights group behind us wants to make it clear that this is a grassroots effort. they are not getting any sponsoring from the national rifle association though the nra did help them w,aíñ some of their mailings. if this goes forward, election could be in september. megyn? >> thank you. new questions surrounding lois lerner, the woman, one of them, at the center of the irs scandal. he was running for senate in illinois against dick durbin and says lerner targeted him
long before this latest controversy. just ahead, why ms. lerner tried to end his political career and what he thinks about the allegations that ms. lerner was political. was that his experience? and a dog owner is now facing murder charges. police say his dogs mauled this woman to death. kelly's court debates whether you can be criminally prosecuted for your pet's actions. plus emotional testimony at the irs hearing on capitol hill this morning. one woman cheerfully describes how she and her husband's deep love of their country made them targets for the tax man. >> i am not here as a vessel. i am not begging my lords for mercy. i am a born free american woman, wife, mother and citizen. i am telling my government that you have forgotten your place. l-uk÷
fox news alert and a major announcement moments ago out of new jersey as governor chris christie announces his plans to fill the senate seat left vacant after the death of long-time senator frank loutenburg, a democrat. the senator says he will not make the pick himself. >> this is about guaranteeing the people of new jersey both a choice and a voice in the process and representation they deserve in washington. who ever -- whoever is going to be our united states senator should be nominated by a primary of the people and voted on by all of the people of the state of new jersey. and that's why as it is clearly indicated by new jersey law i am calling for a special election to be held this year. >> so the special election primary will be in august. the general election will be in october. the governor did not say who he will appoint in the meantime to fill this seat.
mr. lautenberg was a democrat, but a democrat was not elected to go to the senate from new jersey since 1972. so he's a republican. does he put a democrat in there or a republican in there? what does he do? we don't know. as soon as we find out we'll bring it to you. now more on our top story and the dramatic moments at one of the two hearings on capitol hill investigating the irs' targeting of conservative groups. some of the most compelling testimony we have seen at all in all of this came this morning from the victims of the irs' targeting and in particular from a woman today named becky garetson who is president of a tea party group in alabama. 1450*e choked back -- she choked back tears and said how the irs harassed her and her husband. listen. >> i am not here as a v o sle. i am not mercy. i am a born free american woman, wife, mother and citizen and i am telling my
government that you have forgotten your place. it is not your responsibility to look out for my well being and to monitor my speech. it is not your right to assert an agenda. the post you occupy exists to preserve american liberty. you've sworn to perform that duty, and you have faltered. the abuses i will discuss today occurred on your watch, and it is your responsibility to make sure it doesn't happen again. the tea party completed an application and fell within the boundaries of receiving a 501c4 status, yet our application was singled out solely because we had tea party in our name. government agents made invasive and excessive demands for information they were not entitled to. congressman camp and members of committee, this was not an accident. this is a willful act of intimidation to discourage a
point of view. what the government did to our little group in alabama is unamerican. it isn't a matter of firing or arresting individuals. the individuals who sought to intimidate us were acting as they thought they should in a government culture that has little respect for its citizens. many of the agents and agencies of the federal government do not understand that they are servants of the people. they think they are our masters and they are mistaken. i am not interested in scoring political points. i want to protect and preserve the america that i grew up in, the,?0 oceans and risk their lives to become a part of, and i am terrified it is slipping away. thank you. >> thank you very much. >> the chief council for the american center for law and justice represents that woman
and her group. jay, what a powerful moment when we heard becky this morning offering that test mown y'all. i just want to jump to, if i can, congressman mcdermott who apparently wasn't very moved. maybe that's an assumption, i don't know, but his response was to say to her and the others to say look, your groups are highly political. you are all entrenched in some of the most controversial issues in the country. were you seeking to have the american public pay for your work, and why shouldn't you be subjected to scrutiny? >> let's be honest. what the representative did was ignore the fact that the aclu is a 501c4 as is planned parenthood and engaged in these activities and found these individuals shouldn't be asked for their exempt standard, so it was a double standard at best. what becky said is the resounding point. it is the government without check. we will find out who is
responsible for this. at the end of the day when you hear from becky and 24 others in similar situations to hers you realize the intimidation factor coming out of the irs was incredible. and megyn, i think it goes one step further. the discouragement organizations face when they are under this scrutiny for no reason whatsoever and the questions were not within the scope of legitimate inquiry. the irs was changing the questions and we still have 10 clients of the 25 that don't have their tax exempt status three years pending. so the question will be we filed that lawsuit last week. the question is going to be when the government answers, are they going to deny the allegations in our lawsuit which they have already admitted to? that's the most fascinating aspect. will the government say we did not target and deny the allegations on targeting? they admitted now more than once and we will see how that plays out. >> that's the thing. people say who ordered it? why can't we get an answer to
that? we started by playing an exchange on the hill by the inspector general and lawmakers where they said inspector general, who ordered it? he said i asked that question during my audit and they wouldn't give me an answer. now, jay, when people are asking did it go back to washington and if so high up in washington, the brush back is, you noy, there is no evidence to tie this the white house or higher ups in washington and anybody who suggests that is a conspiracy theorist and a political person. but you are suggesting that this was political targeting from the beginning, and you were told repeatedly it wasn't , it's not and no targeting is happening, and we saw the head of the irs on capitol hill and testify it wasn't happening, and now we know those assurances were not true. >> the question to low rise lerner -- to low rise lerner where she confessed to the targeting. megyn, i have letters in my file from washington, d.c., from tax lawyers with treasury
irs on department of treasury letter head internal revenue service with the logo in the corner and signed by a tax lawyer from the irs handling a case not in washington, d.c., not in maryland, not in virginia, but in albuquerque, new mexico. the idea that this didn't come from washington or have significant washington involvement is absolutely bogus. i don't understand for the life of me and i still don't why the government acts as if we don't have the letters. the answer is we do have the letters. we've got the evidence. we have the correspondence back and forth. nobody can answer questions about who authorized it, but i have the documents and the letters lerner's name on it and the various tax lawyers. they are playing hide and seek when the game is really up here. what the government needs to do is confess and get on with this. they are still in a process of almost self-denial even though they made an admission. >> and i want to ask you quickly before i let you go, the assertion of mcdermott
saying to your client and everybody else, i haven't heard a word about what we should be able to ask you about your tax exempt status. is that the responsibility of becky and the others? now they have to go before the house weighs and means committee and explain what is appropriate and what is not? >> congressman mcdermott needs to read the internal revenue manual, the irm as it is called, and sets forth the questions into a legitimate inquiry. the problem is those were not the question these asked. they didn't ask how political your engagement might be. they president whatted to know the positions you were advocating and how often you advocated that position. it wasn't simply issue advocacy, but they wanted to know your position on it. in the one case they wanted to know the students you were teaching. >> and give us your donor list. >> outside legitimate inquiry. >> jay, thank you. >> thanks, megyn. as promised detective mark ferman is next in the case
helps him deposit his checks. jay also like it when mother nature helps him wash his car. mother nature's cool like that. citibank mobile check deposit. easier banking. standard at citibank. olympian oscar pistorius making his first court a perns in months. the judge postponed the trial until the end of august. this after the prosecution asked for more time to complete its investigation into the murder of pistorius' girlfriend on valentine's day. joining me now is mark ferman, former lapd homicide detective. mark, thank you for being here. you have now looked at these crime scene photos our sister network obtained at sky news and now we have them.
they are the first we have seen and we warn you they are graphic if you have not seen them on fox yet of the bloody toilet area where riva was shot anlw killed. and what do you see that is relevant to the skas? >> -- to the case? >> megyn, if we remember right, earlier in the case we had information and diagrams that the victim secreted herself between the wall and the toilet and crouched down in the area. now when you look at the pictures and see how small -- really it is a commode room. the bullet holes that are in the door -- pistorius said he didn't have his legs on. they want to argue because of the height of the bullet holes that is somehow confirming that he;=xñ didn't have his legs on. well that's exactly the opposite of what the evidence shows. the downward trajectory from those bullet holes down to where the victim was crowded by the toilet you don't have to be a ballistics expert or a
detective. you can certainly draw a line with your eye and see somebody was standing with their legs on and probably shooting probably between the lower chest and waist area in quite rapid succession. he was good with a weapon and practiced, but the grouping is scattered, and i would suspect it was in a moment of rage. >> it looks like too there is a little window in the doorway unless i am seeing just tape of the crime scene i am not sure. but in any event, the handle of the door, mark, i can't tell, but it looks high to me on that door. if you look at where the commode is and where sort of the paneling is in the door, that looks to where it would be like almost waist level. does this look to you like the handle of the door is unusually high? >> it does look a little strange, and i can see that area where you think it might be a window or tape. i am wonder figure that is a panel of the door that was actually shot out during the
shooting through the door. i am not sure. it is hard to tell and certainly we can't ask. the bullet holes we do see if you draw a line from there to where somebody could crouch by the toilet you will see that anybody standing up will see that that is the trajectory of a happened gun going through that door and to the victim's body. and certainly they recovered some bullets that probably passed through their body and embedded themselves in the wall. you will be able to draw a line from the resting place of the bullet to the first entry hole of the door. certainly you could project it out from there and you interview the suspect who is claiming he was shooting at a burglar so he will tell you where he shot and from where. if he says he didn't have his legs on and he was a burglar, the evidencer?> that's the th-z >> that's the th-z pu@
than santa's scroll and3q=d i h5 real doubts whether they can obtain a conviction in the wake of their behavior in a country that only has a 10% conviction rate in murder cases anyway. your thoughts? >> i agree with you. i think they are going to blow it. i think the missing watch is probably a product of pistorius' group trying to prove there was prior burglaries or a possibility of a burglary.
when you look at this, this is a ridiculous case. there is no forensic evidence that supports the defense. i think possibly time and money might make this go by the way of the 90% nonconviction in south africa. >> so far it has been bungled in many ways, too many to recount here. the list is long. mark, thanks. >> thank you. as congress investigates the irs, one of the women at the center of the targeting scandal, the one who took the fit is under new scrutiny now. a former candidate for the u.s. senate who is running against dick durbin in illinois says ts woman, lois lerner had him in the cross controversy came to light and made threats to him. he is a republican candidate. he was for senate. today we will hear the story of how she allegedly tried to end his political career. plus can you be criminally
one of the possibilities is he would appoint someone and shear his response. >> yes, new jersey statute out allows me to name 8. meant to -- appointment with a general election in 2014. i firmly believe the decisions that need to be made in washington are too great to be determined by an appointee by a period of 18 months. we must allow our citizens to have their say over who will represent them in the senate for the majority of the next year and a half. people of new jersey deserve to have that voice. >> now new jersey has not sent a republican to the senate since 1972. republican, to put one in there through november:
commission sued him. the case was dismissed. the federal election commission tried to manipulate him into paying an outrageous fine. the federal election commission kept losing and losing and losing. finally saying i would like to speak to the person with the authority in the case because surely if they understood the facts they would dismiss this case. the person at the other end of the phone in charge of enforcement at the time said we will dismiss this case if you pledge to never run for office again. the person at the other end of that phone was lois lerner.
>> that was illinois congressman peter roscom. with us now, al, great to see you. your law partner tells the story well about the saga you went through involving the most -- one of the most notorious irs employees lois lerner. before she worked at the ir shea worked at the federal election committeement that's how you got to know ms. lerner when she tried to make charges when you miss a personal loan you made to your own campaign all which you were exonerated on over and over and all the way up to the seventh circuit court of appeals you have been exonerated. during the time she was pursuing these charges against you though , al, why should we believe it was anything other than your standard sec case against a political candidate who they thought had done
something funny with his money? >> i don't have any evidence that she was going after me because i was a conservative candidate. i believed it, and i saw that almost all of the other defendants at that time is when lois lerner was the chief enforcement person there, they were all conservatives. you look at the record, the christian coalition, and we had conference calls. the one common thread was that the accusations against us were all ridiculous. megyn, even if i were guilty of what she was accusing me of, and i wasn't it would have an accounting error. it would have been a minor accounting error. the terms were disclosed and that's what i said to her personally. i said even if i did this on purpose it is really nothing. why are you asking for so much money? these were world war one
headlines in all of the -- these were world headlines in the area. they beat it over my head day in and day out. when i sat down for interviews this was the first question that always came up. i couldn't run a campaign. was it because she had something out against conservatives? i believed so at that time. many years have passed. i have for given lois lerner. i went through difficult years and it was difficult on my family. 10 years after i forgave her though, i saw her on television and the stories that i heard were identical to the story that i went through. as little as i wanted to get back on television and as much as i wanted to be in my own little private world right now , the fact is i have an obligation to tell my story because what happened to me when she was the head of theu=k
millions and millions of dollars of television commercials, i remember hiding my kids from the tv when it came on. allp salvi is being investigated by the federal elections commission by amounts over a million dollars. it made it soundxd like i was stealing a million dollars or #e÷mething.okx÷ &c @&c it was very, very difficultçó to overcome thati]çó.
when she offered $e÷p me to drop the case if i stay out of politics for thew3 rest of my life, that sounded very strange to me.xd it didn't sound like the usual, well, we will negotiate -- if you pay a small finee1r wrong -- no. she asked meçóñiñr to get out of politics for the rest of my life.q i asked hev(xd, lois, would you put that in writing? that sounds suspicious toçói] m. do i have prove she was a4 me because i was one of the most prominentçó conservative candidates running in illinois and running nationwide at thgñ time? i have no proof of that. i know there is a lot of circumstance shallq evidence she was targeting me for a long period of t unmeritorious claim. >>q and she keptfá you so busy yourjf media was locked out and
they were focus owed something else and dick durbin won that race and isxd still a u.s. senator from the state ofñr illinois.fá fast-forward to 2010. one of the democrats who is so upset about thesefá 501c4's that was targeted by the irs and began inlp 2010, one of the men in the u.s. senate whoçó wrote the letters saying you need to take a closer look at these 501c4's andt( give them a$"tional scrutiny, al, i will tell you tell the viewers who that was.fáñ)y1 >> it was dicklp durbin. to meçg7ç if a u.s. senator wrie tots internal revenuew3 service and says i don't like these people, theyxhp)e my political enemyha(d i want you to investigate them, even if it isñi a public letter,ñi to me tt doesn't pass the smell test.r just as what lois learner did to me didn't -- lois lerner did toñi me didn't+ pass the smell test. it seems to me there is a pattern here.e1
another thing is this,ñi megyn, she lost that case. the court chastised thelp federalxd lawyers. they sent lawyers and i can only imagine how many millions of dollars they spent going after me. she failed, she lost, she did a bad job. itr to the irs? and then she is allowed to continue to doxdi] these little things againstxd other people with theñie1 irs at a higher level? you don't get promoted forlp that kind of thing. you should getxd demoded for that. >> i have to run but i want to ask you quickly, did you take the fifth in your case? ;nt( i never took the fifth. when loisym lerner sent them a couple years after i won thes7 case two fbi agents came to my they wanted to know, and they are really nice people. i am not blaming the fbi. >> quickly. we are coming upxd against a hard break. >>c they were there to find out
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bitten 150 to 200 times. she died while being rushed to the hospital. police say the dogs, pittbulls belonged to devitt's neighbor, alex jackson. joining me is mercedes cohen and faith jenkins. second-degree murder charges, faith, can they back that up? >> yes, they can. normally in these cases, megan, dog owners are not charged with murder because of the intent element in the statute out. here in california a person can be prosecuted when there is dangerous conduct and it is obvious as a result of that conduct that someone could be killed or their life could be put in risk of great harm. that's what we have here. there is precedent for a case like this. 10 years ago a woman was prosecuted under this statute in california and the jury convicted her of murder. >> what is the evidence before i get to mercedes, but what is the evidence, tait, is -- faith, that he knew or had reason to know -- were the
dogs ?roos gite dogs were loose. case likes this will turn on prior incidents. were there prior incidents where this dog owner knew or should have known that his dogs were capable of killing or maiming someone? here five months leading up to this woman being brutally killed by these dogs there were three separate incidents two involving people and one involving a horse. he absolutely knew and trained these dogs to be violent and then let them roam free on the streets of this town. >> mercedes, what is the defense? >> the defense is number one did he know or have knowledge these dogs were capable of killing? none of those incidents that were reported had ever said these dogs were dangerous. by the way, california has a two bite rule. if a dog has vicious propensities there is a hearing and they are put down. if the incidents rose to the level that faith said it could be these dogs would have been dead already. there is a hearing process. that's number one, it is defense will say there is no conceivable way that the client knew the dogs were
capable of killing because there hasn't been any substantiation that the prior incidents would have lead to the death of the individuals. that's one of the biggest issue. >> he knew these dog s who attack people and let them roam free on the streets jie. there is a difference attacking and killing. that's why this statute attacking and killing. do i think he should be charged? yes. murder 2? no, instant voluntary manslaughter, absolute limit when you have reckless behavior that leads to the death of a human being, and that's why these dog bite cases, if they do overcharge, the jury has to decide. can't be murder 2. he's a dog. >> the question is whether they're charged appropriately. >> the standard is what you should have known, and if you know your dog will attack and bite people it's not unreasonable that someone could die -- >> attacking and killing. that's why -- if you're going to charge one with murder 2 they have to know the dogs were capable of killing and there's
no evidence of that. >> i want to pick up after the break. as i understand the dogs have not yet been euthanized and some are questioning if they ought to be if we're putting the blame on the owner and not the animal. that's next. whoa! hey, we got a weather alert for this location... golf-ball sized hail and damaging winds are on the way... kids... eh, don't worry. it's tornado-proof. anyw, i'd put the car in the garage and secu thesehings. they could become flyingebris. kids! watch this. [ beep ] [ children screaming ] [ car alarm chirps ] awesome. [ male announcer ] mobile weather alerts fr your home insurance? that's allstate home insurance. great protection plus helpful tools to make life better. talk to an allstate agent... [ doorbell rings ] and let the good life in.
>> megyn: "the los angeles times" reports back in 2006 this same man had four of his own pit bulls destroyed after they attacked on emu, and those are not the dogs that committed this attack but they were ordered to be destroyed in the wake of killing animals. so that's the question whether these dogs will be put down, having killed a human being, even though the prosecution says it's their owner who is to blame for this. >> honestly, it really boils down to what did he do in terms of training the dogs. if there's evidence he trained
them to kill they're not going to be rehabilitated. they're dangerous dogs and will be put down. but they're considered property. there will be a due process hearing for he owner. he'll bring in the vet to talk about the dogs. honestly, when it leads to the death of the human being, most of them are put down. >> he didn't have a license. they weren't monitoring closely what he was doing with the dogs. why should he be allowed to have the dogs in the first place after thens department in 2006? >> exactly. you can see these dogs have a i history of attacking humans, other nails, and there's not going to be any other i would around it. the dogs will be put down. >> megyn: this is a rural area where stray dogs are common and some of the residents are saying they carry guns with them when they good out for a walk because they're worried about stray. mercedes, the bottom line is people shouldn't have to live like this. one woman was saying, i have a two-year-old, consideredder who walks to school-kindergartener
who has to walk to school. >> he may go to jail for not murder 2 but something less but it is the culpability of the opener should be looked at. there's reporting these are actually strays he took in and may not even be his dogs. >> we don't know. for now he has declined to a plea. he has delayed until a hearing next month. panel, thank you both so much. >> megyn: we'll be right back.
>> megyn: a lot of reaction. let me know what you think. thanks for watching. >> shepard: the news begins anew on "studio b." today the irs controversy takes a new turn. the leaders of conservative groups testifying on capitol hill about scrutiny that cost them valuable time and thousands of dollars in their own cash. plus a former u.s. marine and iraq war veteran is now missing in iraq. i should say in mexico. the fbi reports kidnappers snatched him at gunpoint lee week -- three weeks ago and now investigators found a sign of life as they put it. we'll speak live to the mother of his children coming up. >> some dramatic photos of a plane, a passenger plane, after a serious case of turbulence. not run of the mill here.