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tv   Geraldo at Large  FOX News  June 8, 2013 7:00pm-8:01pm PDT

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it's never been easier to get a jetta. that's the power of german engineering. get $0 down, $0 due at signing, $0 deposit, and $0 first month's payment on any new volkswagen. visit today. he. >> geraldo: this is a fox news alert. >> a new report that the government has been secretly collecting the phone records of verizon customers since april. >> yeah. i knew something was up when i was like you hang up first and then my wife is like no, you hang up first and then obama was is like how about you just hang up at the same time? >> geraldo: but is the laugh on us? this is geraldo rivera reporting that the embattled president meeting this weekend with his chinese counter part and already under fire for benghazi, for an out of control irs and for an aggressive campaign investigating leaks to the immediate is now confronting a brand new
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dilemma. does he order another criminal investigation of two more gigantic leaks? one that the government is monitoring google, facebook, apple and other internet companies and user users overss and monitoring the phone calls of more than 100 million verizon users here in the states. >> nobody is listenin listeninr telephone calls. that is not what this program is about. as was indicated, what the intelligence community is doing is looking at phone numbers and durations of calls. they are not looking at people's names and they are not looking at content. >> geraldo: the president stresses that the previously undisclosed programs are authorized by congress and fall under the super vision of a secret court. and unlike his other scandals, on these latest controversies at least the president has received some bipartisan support. >> home grown terrorism is one
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of my biggest concerns. it is happening in our own backis yard and i'm glad the nsa is trying to find out what terrorists are up to overseas and inside the country. we don't have anything to worry about. i'm glad the activity is going on but it is limited to tracking people who are suspected to be terrorists and who they may be talking to. >> geraldo: but other legislators worry that given how the irs has perverted its mission and one rough shod over people's rights that the latest revealations are further proof of an out of control federal government. >> it calls for a full and open congressional hearing. what are you doing? why are you doing it? how much has done so that we can have a full and complete accounting. someone over at the intelligence agency is thinking well, mccain is giving away all our secrets. shouldn't americans know if the government is carrying out a practice that could be an invasion of privacy? >> geraldo: judge andrew napolitano is, this a
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violation, welcome, is this a violation of the fourth amendment? >> it is a profound violation of the fourth amendment. by the way, always a pleasure to be with you no matter where we are or what the time of day or into the. it is not a violation of the statute that authorizes it in the patriot act but the statute is a violation of the fourth amendment. because the fourth amendment was intended to prevent just this. fishing expeditions. the fourth amendment was intended to make sure if the government is going after somebody whether by force or by stealth there was evidence to justify it. the government went to a federal judge at the secret fisa court and just said give us an open-ended warrant. there has never been a search warrant as broad in scope and as poorly grounded and as intrusive to as many people in american history as this one is. >> geraldo: why would a federal judge knowing exactly what you and i know about the constitution and limits of the
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statute why would a judge allow the federal government such unbridled authority to snoop on so many of us? >> in the fisa court where no one appears for the calls going to be scrutinized it is just a government prosecutor and a couple of fbi agents the stan card of probable cause of crime mandated by the fourth amendment in the constitution is lessoned. the standard is we are conducting an investigation of terrorism and we don't know what is out there but we need to know what is. this violates the value judgment of the fourth amendment. the value judgment of the fourth amendment is we have a right to be left alone unless there is evidence county probable cause of a crime. the statute which lets them go to the federal judge ignores the fourth amendment and there is nobody to challenge this unless you know they are listening to your calls and they want to use your calls as evidence against you and it is in front of a judge you are
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never in a position to challenge them and thus stop them. >> geraldo: you now have over 100 million suspects it would seem. they claim they are not monitor the substance of the conversation but rather checking numbers against known terrorist numbers that they are looking to see if there is a match between telephone numbers. >> here is what the warrant authorizes them to seize. the information they are allowed to collect. the name and address of the caller. the name and address of everybody on the phone call. the telephone number of the caller and everybody on the phone call. and how long they spoke. they have asked us to trust them, trust them that they are not the going to listen to the calls themselves. do they have the equipment with which to listen to the calls? yes. do you trust them. in do the people watching this now trust them? toes the constitution trust them? i suggest the answer is know to all three questions. >> geraldo: i trusted them a lot more until i found out that
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the irs was targeting organizations based on political ideology. what if they don't like my ideology? >> we know this thing because it is verizon. this type of dragnet we don't know what is throughout but some where in the 113 million subscribers is somebody we are looking for is exactly what the fourth amendment wassiintendedo stop. >> geraldo: you and i might be high on the list of probable suspects. >> we are not a danger to society. an irrant to them. >> geraldo: an irritant for. is this part of another symptom of nailing around. is this like the press probe and like the irs entrue seven behavior? what is thissed a minute doing or is this symptomatic of something? >> this started in the bush
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administration. not of this magnitude. a big government and seems to be indemmic of all government that things it can write any law and regulate any behe avior and intrude upon any constitutional guarantee so long as it can get away with it. is it easier for spies to listen to phone calls without a specific search warrant? would it be safer in the streets if the police would arrest brad guys on a him? the answer i suggest is, yes. who wants to live in a society like that? >> geraldo: i'm not sure which bothers me worse. the broadness of the effort under the patriot act or whatever it is that they were looking for if they really know something that ominous as to justifiable sweep of this magnitude? >> what could be that ominous? a conspiracy among the 1 million of the 113 million? this is laziness. this a an unchecked appetite to intrude into the privacy of honest decent hard working
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americans on the scales the likes of which we have never seen and i hope we never see again. >> geraldo: perhaps understanding the widespread destruct of the federal government in the wake of the irs and other scandals today the obama administration pushed back hard on the phone tracking saying congress was briefed on the secret program 13 times since 2009 and administration officials also claim that the programs have bin instrumental in stopping several terrorist plots including town blow up the subways here in new york. does that justify the program's existences? put another way is the loss of privacy worth the price? and given the abuses at the irs how can we trust any government agency to do the right thing when it comes to our rights? we will we can bait that and talk to some citizens screwed by the irs plus continuing our commitment to uncover the facts surrounding benghazigate. we will track where the president was and what he was doing during those tragic
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i came in with a healthy skepticism about these programs. my team evaluated them. we scrubbed them thoroughly. we actually expanded some of the oversight. but my assessment and my team's assessment was that they help us prevent terrorist attacks. >> this is a dragnet. it is an overreach and we have got to find out why this is justified simply because of the nsa wants to do some datamining. >> geraldo: this is a fox news alert. james clapper the director of national intelligence has filed a crime report to the department of justice and the
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fbi over the leaks of these massive toll phone and internet snapping programs. we know that the programs were instrumental in stopping at least one maybe more of the terror attacks directed a against us. is the snapping justified? do we trust the government to do the right thing? what about that filing of the crime report? jordan sekulow doesn't trust the government. he represents several of groups targeted by the irs. our friend and colleague juan williams is the ace fox news analyst. gentlemen, welcome to you both. before we get to the substance of the snapping scandal, juan, your comment about the criminal complaint, the crime report now filed by the director of national intelligence about the two leaks? >> well, i think clapper who is the director of national intelligence as you said, geraldo, is concerned that in fact this is damaging to u.s.
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intelligence gathering worldwide because it tips off the bad guys potential terrorists as to american techniques and potentially they could then seek to change their practices so as to avoid being caught in the system. they think there is real damage to national security interests and i might add from a political point of view give the firestorm over the controversy i think it tries to shift the low cust of the conversation to national security as opposed to violations of civil liberty here at home. >> geraldo: will the focus be suitably shifted, juan? i mean will we now -- they just got in a lot of trouble for investigating the a pend and fox news and now investigating god news who to find out who leaked this vital information. who is going to trust who, the leaker, the leakee. who is the good guy and who is the bad guy? >> this is less like ap and more like wikileaks.
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or more like what we know from julian assange. clear that he doesn't like the united states and doesn't like what the government does and doesn't like the way we prosecuted the war on terror. i thinked administration wants the focus to be on the fact that the guardian and this activist are the ones responsible for the leak and focus on the damage to american intelligence and american security in the face of a real palpable terrorist threat. >> geraldo: before i get to jordan, juan, isn't the president a hypocrate? i hate to say it but didn't he oppose the kinds of programs snapping on people's private lives that we are talking about right now, when was a senator and when was in state government? >> no doesn' doubt about it. yes, is the short answer. that was senator obama. he was a critic of the bush
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administration and patriotic act. now, he is president obama and what you heard from the white house today and from clapper and everybody else is the president realizes the government realizes it is necessary to keep us safe. >> geraldo: now, to jordan. isn't the problem that we don't trust the government to follow the law? >> will, i think that is the problem, geraldo. the policy is one thing but the president and he may have been a senator but this is not what his supporters expected either when became president that that he would continue the policies and then it goes public, the leak problem that the white house has. even if it information was gathered legally and correctly why was it so easy for the mail to get a copy and be able to publish and now the controversy on facebook saying we didn't do anything of this and we weren't a part of it. the truth is that is the problem with this administration. they have lost complete control of the different branches of the federal government. whether we are talking about irs. whether we are talking about
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here, national security which involves a number of different departments they had to know. this was is information that if leaked would not only unset president obama supporters and all americans especially the way it was leaked, the way we found out about it which was the government hiding it from us and then second, of course, the president is acting as if no big deal. nor his own supporters this is their time to speak out. someone critical of president bush and the policies who was -- didn't change any of them and may have gone further. >> i'm not sure i understand, jordan. are you suggesting this is directed, the bureaucrats running amuck directed by the white house or is the government just simply out of control of the executive? >> well, the government can be out of control of the bureaucrats and i think that is is the problem. so the irs, i mean that is where they are blaming at the irs that is what they will blame here. that is why they are filing the criminal issue and if not it
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could be someone appointed by president. 2003 don't know yet. we are supposed to trust this government with big new programs that is what president obama supports that involve all of the different agencies in the government having more of our information, health information, financial information, the list goes on. happens to the private sector, public and citizens. do they have control of the existing infrastructure and the answer from all of the scandals is no. and this distraction, this is a distraction announcing the criminal complaint or charges being filed on the issue. we know now that that has not worked for the white house. didn't work with fast and furious. it didn't work with the irs situation coming out with the planted apologies that the white house coordinated with lois lerner and certainly not going to work here. people want answers and they deserve them. >> geraldo: juan, can you putten it up wily? >> jordan is taking a political look at this and i think he is trying to extend it. the conservative argument, geraldo this is big government
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run amuck. the government is out of control. that is the sit argument. guess what? this extends back to the bush administration. >> where were the leaks under the bush administration on this? >> don't forget what happened. >> geraldo: you fight about blaming bush. i got to go to commercial. thanks a lot. up next, evacuees' sort our way through the snapping scandal we still don't know how far up the political food chain the irs targeting scandal goes. plus, the president timeline during the benghazi attacks. we will be right back. i want to make things more secure. [ whirring ] [ dog barks ] i want to treat mo dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there. call us. we can show you how at&t solutions can help you do what you do... even better. ♪
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spreading across the planet like a virus. >> is it is embarrassing and i apologize and i regret the fact that they were made. >> geraldo: i thought it was funny actually. i wish it was made with their money instead of hours. shulman asked whether the agency was targeting political groups. republican congressman kevin yoder joins us from his home base in kansas city with the answer. before you tell us what the commissioner said to you, congressman, welcome. you have to react, if you would to the fact that the director of national intelligence now filed a criminal complaint about the leaks about the phone snapping and the internet snooping. what say you to that? >> i think certainly we need to ensure that classified information remains classified and so we are concerned about that. but i find it interesting that the biggest issue the administration is worried about is not the fact that our own government bureaucrats are sifting through the personal records and phone records and
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digital information of tens of millions or more of minutes. theamericans. they are most concerned about how did they find out we were doing that to them. we are always concerned about classified information that is leakle. my biggest concern remains the overreach of government power in the situation. the icing on the cake from layer after layer and what appears to be a pattern of behavior with this administration of essentially ignoring the fourth amendment. ignoring the freedom and liberty of every american. legislation that we pass that focuses on national security and stopping terrorism is important but it doesn't give the administration cart blanc authority to investigate every taxpayering american citizen. there is a big problem here. >> geraldo: in terms of overreach don't we have to sacrifice some privacy for security. in. >> we always look to find the proper balance. what the policy of the
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administration seems to be that we sacrifice every ounce of privacy. essentially the nsa is saying in the name of preventing terrorism that we have to give up every liberty we can dream of and they can't have such wrote authority that every american can be investigated by the nsa as being a potential terrorist. >> geraldo: what did doug shulman tell you when you asked if they were targeting political groups. >> we asked about the reports that we were hearing that they were targeting conservative groups based upon ideology for additional audits. he told me not only is it not happening that it couldn't happen. you can imagine when i asked him those questions on the record i was stunned a year later or so to find out that those were in fact incorrect statements. we were certainly misled. >> geraldo: did he lie to you? >> i don't know that he knew at the time but no one came back
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and currented the record. certainly congress was misled and we are continuing to be misled to this very day. we had the new commissioner before us this last -- earlier this week. i asked him about the groups that are still being held for additional scrutiny by the irs as we speak. you you know, the irs speaks about how they resolved the situation and looking into how it happened in the first place. it is still going on to this very day. as we speak on this program there are now 236 groups that still have not to have the applications fully reviewed or approved by the irs. some waiting over two years. if you feel that -- if americans peel that the initial act of additional scrutiny and additional audits for groups based upon their ideology they should be outraged. >> geraldo: i have to leave it there. to do something amazing. ♪ some just do it, on a more regular basis. ♪
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live from america's news headquarters i'm marianne rafferty. authorities saying friday's shooting rampage in santa monica was premeditated. investigators now trying to figure out why i. the suspected gunman is accused of killing four people before officials shot him to death. he was packing 1400 rounds of ammunition. it began with a house fire where the suspect's brother and father were found dead. police shot him at a nearby community college. three americans shod to o death this what is described as an insider attack in afghanistan. the victims two service members and a civilian. the deadly gun fire broke out between an argument between u.s. trainers and a man in afghan uniform. he was also killed. a second suspect arrested and
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an investigation underway. this year there have been fire insider attacks on foreign forces. down from last year. i'm marianne rafferty. now, back to "geraldo at large." for all of the latest headlines log on to >> where is the hour-by-hour schedule of the president of the united states on september 11th, 2012? it has never been released. what is the hour-to-hour schedule of the president of the united states that night? where is it? >> we knew that schedule when osama bin laden was kill. >> there were videos of the president watching the assault to capture osama bin laden by the brave seals who did it. where is the video of what he did the night of benghazi? >> did you, mr. president, personally call any libyan government official to request assistance for the four americans who were under attack? the answer is no, he called the government officials in libya on september 12 after everybody was dead.
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>> geraldo: ever since the water gate scandal the news media has asked what did he know and when did he no it but with benghazi it is gate the questions for president obama are different. the he is are what did he do and when did he do it? craig investigates. 8:26 a.m. on the south lawn of the white house the president and first lady begin the annual commemoration of the 9/11 attacks with the moment of silence. it is presizely 11 years after the first hijacked plane american airlines flight 11 was flown into the world trade center, beginning the deadliest attack on american soil since pearl harbor. 9:27 a.m. the president and first lady lay a wreath honoring those killed and wounded at the pentagon, remembering those killed at the trade center and the lonely field in pennsylvania. >> never an easy day but it is especially difficult for all of you. the families of nearly 3,000
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innocents who lost their lives. >> 3:40 p.m. in washington, d.c. 9:40 benghazi time. terrorists attack the u.s. mission in benghazi. 3:50, 9:50 p.m. benghazi time, ambassador kris stevens frantically calls his deputy greg hicks in tripoli saying greg, we are under attack. his local libyan security desserts him as attackers swarm the compound. at surviving state department personnel tried bravely but in vain to save the ambassador and colleague sean smith. 4:05 p.m. 20 minutes after steven's last message the president while visiting wounded warriors at walter reed is informed of the attack. 4:40 p.m. the president departs bethesda, maryland, on marine one. landing on the south lawn at 4:50 p.m. what we don't know is what the president did or who he spoke to or met with during the attack that lasted seven and a
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half hours. what do you think there is such a void of information on the president's mosquements after the attack began, matt? >> he had a meeting scheduled with leon panetta at 5:00 after the attacks started. he was in touch with members of the ski kurt team yet there seems to be a lack of revealation on what was discussed and why they divide make the decisions that they made. >> are there any reports of the president ever making it to the situation room where a decision could be made to is send in the cavalry? >> a great question. that is one of the questions that should be and. >> at 5:00 that evening, 11:00 p.m. benghazi time outgoing secretary panetta and martin dempsey meet for 30 minutes with the president at the white house. that is the last communication between the commander in chief and top military officials on the night of the attack. this official photo which
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carries no time stamp is later released showing the president also getting briefed on the situation in the middle east and north africa by his national security advisor, vice president and white house chief of staff. kris wallace later confronts dan phifer senior advisor to president obama. >> four americans including the ambassador are killed. dozens of americans in jeopardy. the president at 4:00 in the afternoon says to the chairman of the joint chiefs deploy forces. no forces are deployed. where is he while all this is going on? >> this has been testified to by the. >> no one knows where he was or how he was involved and who told him there were no forces. >> the suggestion is that somehow the president allowed this to happen. >> i just want to know what the answer is. >> 8:00 p.m. 2:00 a.m. benghazi time three hours after steven's last call the embassy in tripoli receives another deeply disturbing call from the same cell phone. this time it is a are lab
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speaking man inform ising tripoli that the ambassador it dead. the president in regular communication with his national security team speaks for the first time directly with secretary of state hillary clinton who sometime during the evening has released a statement saying i condemn in strong epiterms the attack on our mission in benghazi. her statement goes on to say "some have sought to justify this vicious behavior as a response to the inflammatory material posted on the internet. the united states deplores any international effort to denigrate the religious beliefs of others. ". 5:15 a.m. in benghazi and less than 15 minutes after a rescue team arrived on scene from tripoli former seals ty woods and glen dougherty are killed in a mortar attack on the cia annex. 6:30 a.m. benghazi time escorted by friendly libyan
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forces all u.s. government personnel evacuated from the annex to the benghazi airport. 10:18 a.m. three hours after the evacuation candidate mitt romney weighs? >> the administration was wrong to stand bay statement sympathizing with those who had wretched the embassy in begin instead of condemning their actions. >> 10:46 a.m. an hour later the president speaks from the rose guard. >> no acts of terror will shake the resolve of this great nation. alter that character or eclipse the light of the values that we stand for. >> 2:20 p.m. the president departs andrews air force base en route to las vegas, nevada for a scheduled fundraiser. critics are horrified by the insensitivity the mood shows. >> the political director as well as advisor. this is twoemonths before the election. were there, cans with chicago with the political team?
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>> you can't think that the president can somehow completely divorce this terrible tragedy with what the impact would be on his standing with the american people. you are asking questions that are very basic to this tragedy. and that the white house deserves to look the american people in the eye and give them an answer. >> what the families and supporters of the men who died in benghazi are asking for a specific review of the white house response to the attacks. a tick tok as come prohen seven as the one that followed the raid on osama bin laden. what and when the president was doing if anything and who he was speaking with if any one and on those points the critics say there should be nothing to hide. geraldo? >> geraldo: fair questions, craig. thanks. the request other question is whether the military did all this could to save those men once the attacks started. that's next. when visa signature asked everybody what upgraded experiences really mattered... you suggested luxury car service instd of "strength training with patrick willis."
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>> geraldo: the lack of security before the attacks on benghazi on our people in benghazi and the political spinning by the obamaed a spin station after the attacks consider administration after the attacks are important issues. in terms of gut wrenching impact neither before or after is as important as to whether or not we could have saved our people in benghazi once those attacks began. we know that ambassador stevens and computer tech smith were killed in the first few minutes. but that 7 hours more or less passed before the second wave of fatal attacks. why wasn't more done militarily to save ty woods and glen
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dougherty? of all of the military options arguably the only one that could have made a difference was the air force. fighter jets flying over the embattled annex scattering the attackers. current military commanders say that was impossible because of distance and time, that the jets were are too far away, no tankers were available for aerial refueling. the closest f-16s were assigned to the 31st tactical fighter wing base in northern italy. with us new two generals that argue even without aerial refueling the f-16s could have made the difference between life and death. lieutenant general tom mcinerney and the former deputy commander of forces in the pacific. gentlemen, back. general, you spent time at aviano. stip cali what state are the aircraft in aviano and a
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typical day. let's assume it is not 9/11. on a typical day what are are the state of the aircraft and how long does it take pilots to get from the ready room or from the dormitory to the aircraft and get them in the air? >> normally takes a two hour briefing before you launch them if they are there. the fact is that is if you do everything in a very standard process. but let's allow two hours that it would have taken for the air crews to have gotten the airplanes airborne. >> geraldo: general, two hours to get the aircraft in the air. what then is the flight time and do you stop for refueling en route or go straight to benghazi? >> let me give you the first option that i would have gone directly to benghazi, dropping the tank en route in the mediterranean. climbing and outing afterburner and flying at a much higher speed. it would cut down your time in the art area but i would then get over the target area in some between 1:15 and 1:35.
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>> generaagain with ral two hoo get the aircraft up. minimum hour and a half flight there without fuel tanks to refuel them. >> odd haven't been a preplanned mission but we have flexibility and when peeples lives are in jeopardy, geraldo, we do everything we can to try to save them. >> general, as the general explains the scenario with the f-16s you admit it was a long shot given the distance and time available. >> as general mcinerney said it it was doable. as we say in special ops, geraldo, can do and will do when it comes to saving americans. and that is what was not done. >> geraldo: and general vallili, is the real bone of contention here that the military was not ordered to try given the fact that it was a long shot, given the fact that
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even the scenario you described you know might not have made it in time to save dougherty and woods, god bless them, they are in benghazi under attack, is the really irksome part of this that they did not try? >> that is exactly right. might is not a good operative word. we will and we can and we will attempt it at all costs using all of the assets we have. >> geraldo: general mcinerney listen to general wesley clark the former nato supreme commander and his comments about the scenario you describe. >> what all due respect to tom, aviano is up the coast of italy about an hour and a half maybe a little more than that flight to get there. very have got to we scrambled, armed and ready to go. the pilots have to be briefed. i think it is highly unlikely that two f-16s flying over
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benghazi with no radio communication on the ground would have been able to do much at that point. >> geraldo: general mcinerney your response to general clark? >> general clark is some what correct on that. is if we didn't have any warning. but the point is there was very visible warning that something was going on on 9/11 in that region and so when we talk the numbers of general clark who i have great respect for and you talk the numbers that i have the fact is there should have been aircraft on alert and preferrabley airborne alert and with tankers and these are the questions that general hamm must be asked and general dempsey the chairman of the joint chiefs of staffs and secretary panetta. they should be asked these questions why with this kind of indications around warning in addition to being 9/11 was -- were forces not on alert. >> they weren't prepared and show individual have been. comt
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only by the defense department in planning but also the national security council and the people responsible for that within the state department. so they are all complicit in a mission that should have been a the least initiated and at least attempted. >> shothieved have tried? >> thieved have tried, geraldo. >> general? >> they thieved i should have , geraldo. >> geraldo: the government is asking for trust. but i wound if he these tea party activists who join us live next are willing to trust the government. both have been victimized by the irs targeting of conservatives. they join us next. e verizon share everything plan for small business lets you connect up to 25 devices on one easy to manage plan. that means your smartphone, her blackberry, his laptop, mark's smartphone but i'm still on vacation. still on the plan. nice! the intern gets a tablet? everyone's devices.
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after a month of waiting it turns out an 84-year-old woman
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in florida has won the $590 million powerball lottery. as for how much tax she is going have to pay on the $590 million, the irs said it is too soon to tell because they don't know whether she is a republican or democrat. it will take awhile to anything out. >> the comedians are loving it. at congress investigates the is now scandals, the phone and internet snapping nye next guests say the most recent revealations are the latest evidence of what can happen when big government runs amuck. both guests belong to organizations targeted by the irs. kelly of the tea party patriots and kevin cookery, the founder of lynchpins of liberty. welcome to both of you. kevin were you surprised by the snapping scandals given what has happened to you and your group, the most recent scandals. >> no. thank you for having you on, geraldo. by the way, kevin cookichir.
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>> i said this guy must get his last name mispronounced more than i get my name misspelled. welcome to the program. were you surprised by the most recent scandals? >> not surprised at all. i have been waiting 29 months for the irs to approve the nonprofit application and give me tax exempt status and it is based solely on my political views. i don't trust this government one bit at the moment. >> geraldo: how long has it opinion? >> 29 months and a can counting. >> our motto is to challenge the imagination of the rising generation. wementer high school and college students in conservative political philosophy. this is apparently a threat to the government. >> geraldo: you don't tell them who to vote for? >> we ever a 051 c three educational institution. >> geraldo: and deli tell me your reaction -- kelly tell me
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your reaction. are they to you part of a big package here? >> they are completely part of the whole entire package as you said. government run amuck. when it is so vast that even david axel rod says that the government is too vast then we know it is too big and they have too much power and i will think one of the other things that struck me from the hearings this week is that you have government bureaucrats and people saying oh, i'm sorry and that is it. like they can just apologize as though a regular american citizen can say to the irs i'm sorry we lost our receipts we are good, right. we can't get away with these things but they he can and that is a dangerous situation to be this in a free country. >> how long has your group been awaiting irs tax exempt approval? >> since december of 2010. >> geraldo: until now? >> we still don't have it. even after the news has hit we still do not have our status.
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>> geraldo: tell us what your group does, kelly? >> i'm with tea party patriots a nonprofit nonpartisan group that hopes local tea party groups with trainings and grants and funding available to do things that are nonpartisan. we have to be nonpartisan. we educate on o the constitution and bill of rights which apparently is enough to compel the irs to look us into and delay our status. >> geraldo: are you fearful in light of the most recent revealations kelly they are snapping on you in a way that goes beyond our application for tax exemption? >> i think what we really have to worry about is the fact that whatever information they come up with could be used against people based on personal beliefs and political ideologies and religious beliefs and they could be systemically discriminated against or the information could be leaked as some of the people that testified into
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front of congress had some of their information leaked. it is what they are going to do with it. it is frightening really. >> geraldo: when you testified you didn't exactly get a warm reception from the democrats on the panel? >> not at all. you may be referring to mr. mcdermott who went on to imply that i lied in my testimony. >> geraldo: that was who i was referring to. i was being a little polite. go ahead, your reaction. >> not only that is that wrong. he made a distinction between whether or not i was under oath. i don't whe megan may gin kellt distinguish whether or not i was under oath, i tell the truth all the time. >> geraldo: who is the bigger criminal, the american hobbinged the consider the person hobbinged the existences of the snowplowing programs or the people -- snapping programs report people who created the snapping programs? >> the people who created them.
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>> the people digging into our personal lives and using this to exploit us. >> kelly and kevin. did i get it right that time? >> that of the close. >> geraldo: ladies and gentlemen, we live in a wonderful and unique country where government depends on the consent of the governed. that is the rub here. if we don't trust the government to do the right thing we are all in a heap of trouble. stay tuned to fox news for the latest on the criminal complaints filed about the leaking of these stories plus we will have much more on the substance of the programs that we have been discussing tonight. thank you very much for watching. have a great week. we'll see you on the radio and social media. good night, everybody. [ dog barks ] i want to treat mo dogs. ♪ our business needs more cases. [ male announcer ] where do you want to take your business? i need help selling art. [ male announcer ] from broadband to web hosting to mobile apps, small business solutions from at&t have the security you need to get you there.
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is your cholesterol at goal? ask your doctor about crestor. [ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, astrazeneca may be able to help. >> wok "red eye." it is like breaking bad if by bad you mean wind. two to tv's andy levi for the pregame report. what is coming up on the snow he. >> coming up, president obama says the nsa gathering phone and internet records is no big deal. glad that is settled. not even sure why we are talking about it to be honest. plus, who is to blame for bikinis be banned at the ms. world pageant in indonesia? the answer is no not all muslims. >> why you are have to hate on justin. he is just a man a making his way in this world. >> i would like to see him


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