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tv   Geraldo at Large  FOX News  June 22, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT

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this is a fox news alert. i'm her rail dough rivera reporting that the george zimmerman trial is over even before it begin. judge deborah nelson today ruling that prosecutors cannot use professed experts to identify who screams in the seconds before the neighborhood vigilante shoots young trayvon martin dead. >> do you think he's yelling help? >> yes. >> all right. what is your phone number again? >> later tonight, aisle explain why the defense should now prevail. and we'll probe the stunning evidence some say suggests strongly that it was foul play, not a fuel tank explosion, that
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brought down twa flight 800. but up front, worries the chinese are going to keep whistle blower edward snowden, draining him of everything he knows. president obama is warning them today not to drag their feet when it comes to extraditing the connell putder expert to leaked the fact. the nsa has been see crestly harvesting billions of our tell phone and internet records. >> over time that awareness of wrongdoing builds up and you feel compelled to talk about. >> one of the most shocking elements of the edward snowden whistle blower case is he was not working for the federal government but a private contractor at the time he made the various disclosers, company called booze r allen hamilton. our next guest is the former
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director of the central intelligence agency himself. he is ambassador james, and we welcome him on board. isn't it worrisome that companies like booz allen hamilton have access to this very, very sensitive and private information? if you don't want them to have security clearances and to be doing some of the work that civil servants would normally do, then you need to loosen up on barriers to hire civil servants, and and contractors are asked to basically supply people because the government hasn't had enough to do the job. >> you say we hire private contractors because congress won't hire us to hire civil servants, public employees. >> won't authorize enough to get the job done. i -- you know, we've had some
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pretty bad career people too. aldridge haynes and hanson. one in the cia, one with the fbi. being a career officer or agent doesn't necessarily mean you're not going to damage the united states. but everybody ought to be subjected to very serious background investigations and clearance procedures, and whether they're career or noncareer, they should. be violating their oath of office tharand their obligation with security clearance. >> given the fact that they should not violate this almost sacred trust, how are you reacting to the fact that edward snowden, the whistle blower, has substantial support among a pretty good -- pretty hefty hunk of the american people? >> i think it's good that the majority of the american people are not willing because i think the people who support him are
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quite misguided. >> any members of congress believe the fourth amendment is being tram pbled on, unwarranted or illegal search and seizure, that because of the enormous capabilities we have now, the government can find out anything they want to know about you at any time, they worry that you have a bureaucracy out of control with no checks and balances or insufficient emt checks and balances and that all of us are laid bare? >> i think the irs's misuse was a very bad thing but i have no reason to believe that our officials in the nsa, cia are violating the law. we do not spy on americans. the cia doesn't. as far as i know, neither does the nsa. >> as you sit there tonight are you comfortable they're not this abiebs big brother that so many particularly young people right
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now fear? >> right now i have a good deal more confidence in the cia and nsa than i do the internal revenue service. >> have you been audited lately? >> oh, yeah. it went true. >> is that true? >> yeah. no problem. >> but you're a democrat. >> i'm sure democrats are getting audited just like republicans. >> but it looks like unless you're a tea party person you're not getting the hammer unfairly. >> i do not allege a single thing wrong. it was conducted very professionally. i came out owing some money. it was not a big problem. >> i hope i didn't bring the heat down on you. >> they'll do the same thing next year they did this year. >> thanks a lot. >> thank you. >> they do not in involve listening to people's phone calls. do not involve reading the e-mails of u.s. citizens or u.s. residents. absent further action by a
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federal court -- >> the notion that we're trolling through everyone's e-mails and voyeuristically reading them or listening to everyone's phone calls is on its face absurd. we couldn't do it even if we wanted to, and i assure you, we don't want to. >> one of the congressmen really denouncing the secret surveillance and seedsure of american cell phone records is our friend from kansas, republican tom. is he telling the truth? >> i believe so. the president's indicate thad congress has been fully briefed, and i'll tell you we've asked question after question, actually sent a list of questions. tell us the details. they refused to answer the questions. meanwhile we don't read more and more about a program that i've about had no knowledge about. >> if congress has been breefd however incomplete the
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briefings, you did have an idea what was going on. why is it all of sudden this is so outrange to us, that all of a sudden we're fearful of big brother? >> i've always been fearful of big government and i think this is an epidemic problem not just on the intelligence side to. tell everybody who was briefed that's not true. >> what is your worry, that the irs or nsa or whoever else is doing with that data? >> i'm worried that they're collecting that data, that sometime yesterday or today they're invading the privacy of law-abiding individuals. they've admitted to do that and they're going to continue to do that. i think clearly when the president ran for office we have heard about it and now we're seeing today he's expanded upon
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those programs th opposed five years ago. >> so is the president a hypocrite or a liar? >> i don't know for sure what the president knows but i know there are many things that have been report bud not told to congress. indeed clapper lied to congress about these particular programs and that's unacceptable. >> congressman tim huelskamp, thank you very much. up next, you'll meet another whistle blower. here he is. back in a flash. stay tuned. [ male aouncer ] it's 7am and steve is already thinking about tomorrow. which is why he's investing in his heart health by eating kellogg's raisin bran®. mom make you eat that? i happen to like raisins.
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espionage act. tom, thanks very much for being with us. originally you were charged with ten counts, including five under the espionage act. you were looking at life in prison. were these charges brought under the bush administration when you started your whistle blowing or the obama administration? >> actually the obama administrati administration. >> is it a fact that the obama administration is going after these more so than bush? >> ruthlessly. they're designed to go out for spies and whistle blowers. he's gone after more whistle blowers and truth terms and that all combined. >> they call you a traitor and a turn coat. >> yeah. a sort of benedict arnold in this country. >> is it true? were you? >> no. simply holding up the mirror in terms of holding up the wrong illegality. that became a criminal act. >> right. you were charged with ten counts
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under the espionage act facing life in prison. what did you ultimately get? >> i faced 35 years. i ended out pleading out with a minor misdemeanor. others are in jail, serve time in jail or are facing prison. >> do you consider yourself a hero or a disgruntled employee. >> just an american who took an oath during my government career. >> you told the truth as you saw it because you thought the government was doing something that was extra or unconstitutional. >> yes, particularly with respect to the secret surveillance program. i was there at the beginning when i first blue the whistle but i also blew the whistle on multi-billion dollar fraud. it was all necessary. nifr had to go to the dark side.
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>> do you identify with edward snowden? is he like you? >> it's a deja vu experience. he's certainly a whistle blower. >> what were the secrets that you were divulging? >> the fact that the white house in the greatest of secrecy shortly after 9/11 decided to enter into an arrangement with nsa in which they became the top agent for a top secret surveillance program that violated the existing ta substitute which means they violated the fourth amendment rights of americans and that was the foreign intelligence surveillance acts. >> and now we have the fisa courts. do you trust the judges in that? >> any changes at all in late 200126789 you have secret law, secret interpretations of the
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law. >> what about the argument that we need surveillance programs to protect us against terror, tom, and that, you know, if we didn't have these surveillance programs, there are at least 50 terrorist acts that could have been success pli completed, killing, maiming, disrupting the lives of americans. >> i'm not saying there's a need but i challenge the statement of the 50 terrorist events as they define them. how more be stopped or prevented on just the basis of the surveillance program. >> that's your situation. here we have edward snowden. do you not believe that he has damaged america's secret services in the way that our officials are now saying? >> not at all. they're going to hide behind the name that it has because mass security unfortunately has become the state religion on the secret side of government. you don't question it. the land of the free is only until you decide to disagree and
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it's only the home of the brave, hey, make sure you remain silent in the government provided digital case. >> all right. now, that sounds good. that's a great speech but you have to be very specific here. they say if you're talking to someone who's talking to one of these al qaeda operatives, then you should know about it. if the computer picks it up, then you get a search warrant, then you check it out, foil the plot. >> i'm not disagreeing with that. there's standing convention rules for that. why does verizon have to turn over all 100-plus million phone records? that's the equivalent of a general warrant that. constitutes a violation of the fourth amount. that's illegal secret law. that's compromising the privacy of 99.91 percent of the people. >> communist china is our enemy,
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communist china is not going to give him back. they're going to drain him of all of our secrets. wouldn't that disadvantage the united states and isn't he a traitor? >> that's not the full story. i don't know that we know the full story. hong kong has is own independence. ite not completely run by china. >> be that as it may, i disagree with that. you're not worried about that? >> i'm not worried about that at all. >> what are you doing in your life now that u you've taken this heroic view? >> i wouldn't consider it heroic. it used to be considered the best oath of government and i took the oath four times. >> what do you do now? >> i work in retail at an apple store. >> you work at an apple store. you can't -- >> you're blackballed, black lifted. >> i'm sorry for your own
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personal travails. thanks for coming on, tom. >> thanks for having me, geraldo. this latest murderer that aaron hernandez is alleged to have committed is not the first time the tight end for the new i'm sorry for your loss. still doesn't feel real. our time together was... so short. well, since you had progressive's total loss coverage, we were able to replace your totaled bike with a brand-new one. the tank, the exhaust... well, she looks just like roxy! you know, i'll bet she's in a better place now. i'm sure she is. [ ethereal music plays ] [ motorcycle revving ] getting you back on a brand-new bike. now, that's progressive.
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[ female announcer ] if you can't afford your medication, for a store near you go to benjaminmoore.com/bayarea. this is a fox news alert. massachusetts state police and other law enforcement continue to search the home of new england patriots tight end aaron hernandez in connection with the murder of another football player 27-year-old oden lloyd. whether this latest search means the long anticipated arrest of hernandez is about to happen, we're join eed by "the boston
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globe's" ben. tell us what the law enforcement has been doing all day in hernandez's home. >> they came around lunchtime. they brought a canine unit, several detectives, crowbars, lock smith. they checked the backyard, chirp's playhouse. they checked that too. they're doing a thorough top to bottom search of hernandez's home in connection with all kinds of things and murder. they might be looking for obstruction of justice and other things, potentially unlicensed gun. ultimately that could be a serious charge for him. >> where is hernandez to the best of your knowledge, ben? >> he's in the home with his attorney. but he hasn't been cooperating throughout most of this investigation. he's been doing what he needs to do with the let ore the law but he's been very quiet. not answering the police.
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certainly that's not making them happy. there's video from aaron hernandez and the victim monday morning in the street where the victim grew up. that puts him in contact with the victim hours before he was killed. that's an important piece of evidence. there wasn't that much difference between the time he met with him and he was killed. the murder did happen in the industrial park where they found the body. there were several gunshot holes in the body. so this wasn't a one-shot deal. they wanted this person dead. >> how iraonic that a kid who ws a former banger was replaced with tim tebow, the most religious, straight arrow you could get. >> certainly people have noticed the irony. hernandez's one phone call, would go to tebow.
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they were teammates. they came out in the 2010 draft together and have kind of always been friends. aaron grew up in bristol, connecticut, two hours away from the boston area. once his father died when he was 16, people said he lashed out and got angry and was hanging around a lot of the wrong people, he seems to be another athlete not able to say good-bye to his past influences. >> ben volin, "the boston globe." thank you very much. >> thank you. >> it's not the first violent incident. back in 2007 he was questioned by the cops in relation to a double shooting following a college football game. earlier this year in february down in florida aaron hernandez is alleged to have shot the climate of my next guest. she is elizabeth, she is the attorney in a civil lawsuit
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pending against aaron hernandez filed by her client alexander bradley. so why didn't alexander brandly tell the police at the time of the shooting that he had been shot allegedly by aaron hernandez? >> you know, hgeraldo, i wasn't there. he was shot in the head and the hand so i have to assume he was in pretty bad shape. number two, he looks to be a bit of a thug and i suspect my client was very fearful. my client suffered extremely serious injuries hchl e had a gunshot through and into his hand, through his face. it masser rated his eyeball. he has no eyeball it's going to be hard for a guy with one eye and one arm to find a job. >> it certainly will but but it still begs the question why not call the cops. why sue for money when clearly what was done was a criminal snookt there's no doubt it's a
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criminal act, however, my client has medical bills and he's unable to support himself right now and despite the criminal process which should ensue, that's not going to pay his medical bills. >> does your client have a medical record? he has a criminal record involving drugs. >> was he involved in violence. >> no. >> we'll follow your case and again urge you to go to the proper authorities. >> sure. thank you. thank you for having me. >> the cops have since left hernandez's home. up next was it really an accide
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live from america's news headquarters, secretary of state john kerry looking for a political solution to syria's civil war. they're working to coordinate aid to rebels trying to oust syrian president assad. it was their first meeting since president obama said the u.s. would send lethal aid to the opposition. the conflict killed more than 93,000 people. crews in colorado working to save a tourist town as a wildfire grows. the fire is covering 100 square miles just miles from the soun of south fork. 400 permanent residents had to
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evacuate. firefighters are removing phone shall fuels away from homes in case flames move closer. now back to "geraldo at large". ld. something going up in the sky. a rocket went up in the air. >> i seen a white light. oh, someone shot off a flare. >> i receive add very important paper that shows very strongly that the twa 800 flight was shot down by u.s. navel plane which was flying missiles off the coast of long island. these people on the ship do a test of missiles many time as year, and they had been told that all these planes flying over that area would be at 21,000 feet, but they weren't
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told that the twa flight was going to be at 13,000 feet bus there was a plane on top of it and it couldn't go up any higher at that particular moment. >> highly respected pierre salinger unleashing 17 years of controversy charged back in 1977 that twa flight 800 was no accident. craig investigates. >> we identified the number of bodies. there was an area about the size of a football field that was actually burning on the surface of the water. i had never seen anything like that before in my life. >> july 17th, 1996, twa flight 800 takes off from jfk airport bound for paris. as the jumbo jet fliclies abovee shore of long island it explodes in midair killing all 230 on board and contrary to government
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findings, hundreds of witnesses are convincing the plane was shot down. >> i was scanning over in this area right here on a night very much like this, and i picked uppup a vapor trail and it was moving left center, further to my left. it was horizontal to the horizon. a gradually descending arc. i was very much surprised, something out of my past. >> why did you describe it as something out of your past? did it look like a missile? you served in vietnam. >> it definitely looked like a missile. >> they combed through records in a four-year-long investigation, painstakingly reviewing the doomed aircraft
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like a jigsaw puzzle. the conclusion, a wiring issue sparked an explosion near an empty fuel tank but tom, working on his ph.d. in physics is unconvinced. he spent the last 17 years interviewing witnesses and whistle blowers, saying the government is lying about the crash. >> i think what's most important is to open this investigation again, get an honest look at it from an unbiased group of investigators. >> i saw the beginning of a fuel explosion, petrochemical explosion, and that was the big fireball that so many people observed. but that was the fourth explosion. >> i think they're preposterous. i think it's pure fiction. >> he spoke to the lead fbi investigator of the crash. >> the plane is still in a hangar down in virginia and has been there for 17 years. you know, if there's some dastardly thing that was not
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within the scope of science back in 1996, you know, we'd take a look at it. but this group of people are not those scientists. >> james continues to pooh-pooh what you call evidence in your documentary. >> dr. charles wetly has signed our petition. he's the chief medical director and chief. he's not low level. hank hughes, chairman of the airplane reconstruction interior group. he laid out the grid to reconstruct the even tire plane. i mean this is high-level person. >> primary conclusion was the explosive forces came from outside the airplane, not the center fuel tank. >> would that statement have been in your analysis? >> if i got the right one. >> let me tell you this is an honest investigation and it is
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being conducted in an honest and open fashion. >> we didn't found any part of the airport that indicated a mechanical error. >> pause terrorism was thought, the cia was involved, even producing an animation showing the plane had broken apart and showing that what they had seen was, in fact, a trail of burning feel coming from the aircraft after the initial explosion. that was quickly rebutted claiming radar images claim a high velocity explosion occurred outside the plane as witnessed by fred myer and other witnesses causing a secondary explosion of the fuel tanks. >> now what the evidence shows is a high velocity detonation caused this crash, not a low velocity fuel air explosion by the government. that's the smoking gun. >> when you listen to fred myer,
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an airman who served in vietnam, a chopper in the guard. >> they're already starting to. they're attacking me. enough of that. let the eyewitnesses speak. >> that's the bottom line, geraldo. thousands of lives were tragic will i affected. they want a fair hearing of evidence that many of them believe shows that those deaths were no accident. ger geraldo. >> craig, thanks. did they get a fair hearing? two men who play a key role join me next. and why think the zimgerman case is all over but the shouting. we've been bringing people together. today, we'd like people to come together on something that concerns all of us. obesity. and as the nation's leading beverage company, we can play an important role. that includes continually providing more options.
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he headed up the probe. welcome. let me start with you. including last bit about the speed of debris, that a missile causes it to fly out much faster than an internal explosion, has any of this evidence raced by this documentary that airs on july 17th on epics, on the 17th anniversary of the disaster, has any of this made you rethink your conclusion, director calstrum makes you think it was an accident, not a missile strike? >> no, jgeraldo. it's not evidence. it's words of people. most at ntsb don't have a comment. >> beyond any question you have no doubt that your conclusion that twa 800, all 232 people killed was an accident. >> well, geraldo, i would have
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bet my meager pay that it was not an accident, that it was terrorism. but, you know, after a year and a half of investigation, a thousand agents, metallurgists from all over the place, all the different government, rocket scientists, the national laboratories, independent scientists we hired, missile experts from china lake, from the navy, from wright patterson air force base, academiacademia lookover from multiple governments, we found no evidence of explosives or telltale signs that a missile would leave any kind of a warhead, one that was hg or the concussion -- other multiple warheads. that was all looked at by the foremost scientists in the
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united states. >> dr. bodden, you played a key role in the autopsies. what did you find. >> just for starters, we went down many times to talk to the families. we asked all kinds of questions including about explosions and missiles and were fully transparent to the families who were at kennedy errant to answer these questions together and i foundal strum to be, you know, 1 un% initially thinking it was a plane explosion, then a missile explosion. we went through every body, 230 bodies, all had to be autopsied, and any evidence on any body, clothing, during the autopsy were taken out and given to fbi agents who brought them to the fbi crime lab. there were literally thousands of piece os material interest the bodies, none of which turned
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out to be from an explosion or anything outside the airplane like a missile that came into the airplane, and we could find no evidence of any of the 230 bodies that were struck with shrapnel, heat effect, explosive emicals on any of the bodies or any of the clothing tofr 230 dese seeexcit decedants. >> what about what pierre salinger said, kennedy's press secretary, former colleague of mine, highly regarded. >> that's why we do autopsies. people can have certain ideas and honestly have ideas and then we do autopsies to see if there's any merit to those ideas. >> geraldo, maybe you don't remember, pierre salinger was waving a piece of paper over in france obviously after having numerous drinks saying it was a
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report from french intelligence, it was nothing of the sort. >> so, jim, despite all of these witnesses who say they saw a missile trail going from ground to the air, you discount all that. >> well, look. i don't discount any of the eyewitnesses. we interviewed all the eyewitnesses multiple times. let me tell you. about 85% of the eyewitnesses looked up at the sky when they heard the bang and that means from the study of physics, speed of sound versus speed of light, all those witnesses looked up either 33 seconds or up to 53 seconds after. so they were already looking at a plane that had already blown up. >> so you think it was the sound of the plane blowing up made them look. >> in about 80% of the cases we asked them why they looked up. they said they heard a sound. >> geraldo, you more than anybody else knows eye witnesses
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can be wrong. look where all the witnesses are released from jail because the eyewitness reports made in good faith on who the perpetrator was turned out to be wrong. >> hold on a second, jim. this is going to be like the kennedy assassination. yo u nother got to satisfy a major segment of the population. >> that may be true. >> dr. baten is right. the one fellow, the hank guy from ntsb, he's not even qualified as an aviation investigation. he investigates truck accidents on highways and he was brought in because they're shorthanded. they're good people. they tried hard, but it's not within their capability to be metallurgist sthoos one sentence. >> in fairness to the family and everybody, everybody who thought there was a coverup 17 years ago should have come forward. why wait 17 years saying now
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there were thousands of people involved in a coverup. >> epics. you can judge for yourself. july 17th. they're running the documentary. now to the george zimmerman case, with no blacks and an all female jury, the prosecution already face add tough climb to conviction today. in a minute i'll tell you why that became mission impossible. ♪ ♪ chances are, you're not made of money, so don't overpay for boat insurance. geico, see how much you could save. folks have suffered from frequent heartburn
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[ screaming ] >> you think he is yelling help? >> yes. >> what is your -- phone number. >> there's gun shots. >> you just heard gun shots? >> yes. >> this morning judge debra nelson, i'm sure you heard about
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this, ruled that two voice identification experts will not be allowed to testify that that voice was trayvon martin. that seals the deal, in my view, ensuring that george zimmerman's acquittal will happen, even before the trial gets started. i think the defense wins this and the prosecution loses this. let's hear from two terrific experts that may see it differencely. that is faith jenkins on your right and former nypd detective, welcome both of you. so, faith i think here is a couple of obstacles. first of all, it was a merky circumstance, that was why zimmerman was not arrested for over 40 days. the police saw his self defense claim having weight and merit, it was not until people started to complain and demonstrate that
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the state prosecutor, especial prosecutor was apointed, the steep climb that the cops saw was the thread of hope that they had was if that was trayvon martin screaming for help on the 9-1-1 tape, he was the one in fear, and he was the one being assaulted, not the other way around as george zimmerman claims self defense and all the rest of it. now the experts that the prosecution had lined up can't testify, i think this thing is a slam dunk. >> well, i don't agree with you about the slam dunk. this case was very difficult from the very beginning. the main reason being there were only two people there to wins this incident -- to witness this incident. one is dead and one has injuries. that was the difficulty at the beginning. although difficulty and although a up hill battle. i still think the state has a change, depending on this young woman that will come forward who said she was on the phone with trayvon martin the night that it
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happened. i don't think that george zimmerman will make a great witness on the stand. it's an up hill battle. i agree at the on set, if the fbi been able to analyze the tape and tell who is screaming on this tape, we would not be going to trial right now. this case would be over. whoever was screaming was not the acongress grecongress -- wa aggressor, that person was begging for their life. that tape is critical in the case. >> you agree then that the odds against a successful prosecution has enormously increased. >> the jury will still hear the tape. so they will be tested on the three seconds of the veems. it will be difficult for the juries, the jurors are going to have to rely on their ears. >> and i think trayvon's parents are nice, solid people.
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the father will get up and testify that was my son's voice on the tape. and they will say, wait a second, didn't i say that was not your son as voice on the tape earlier? >> we had mike edit ba-- michae baten on the show. he is an expert, he can say something else and i think part of the thing on the tape is when someone is screaming, the identification of screaming is not their regular voice. that was brought out by the french gentleman who was an expert on listening to the voices. you know, you get an expert witness on one side, i've been a expert witness, when i say something about someone murdered in the hotel about the security not being sufficient. and another one comes in and
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says is, no, it's that way. they should have had that opportunity. >> that will not happen though. it will not happen and they should have had that opportunity. >> the jurors are going to hear the tape. and if you listen to the tape, as soon as the gun goes off, the screaming stops. they will argue, use your common sense, the shooter silenced the screams. >> and all the other variables come into play, the injuries -- >> it's an all female jury. 5 white women out of six. >> no they are caucasians, you cannot call them white. stop it. >> bo, they will ask these five ladies of the jury. you see a strange kid walking around with a hoodie on, and you do not recognize him. >> they are always parents, 5 of 6 of them are parents. >> what is the reason? what is the reason for this zimmerman being there? look it, let's all face it about
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the hoodies. -- >> someone is dead. >> we had a problem with hoodies, i take you to every videotape of every stick up for some reason, people have hoodies, they want to hide their faces. >> we have to stop with the hoodies, seriously. everyone wears them. partners in my law firm wears them. >> that is like a woman is a rape victim -- >> when you do not want to show your identity, you cover up. if the guy had a mask on. >> we now know he was not doing anything wrong. >> he weasn't and we know that now. >> will he be convicted or not, bo? >> every parent wants the safest and healthiest products for their family. that's why i created the honest company. i was just a concerned mom, with a crazy dream. a wish that there was a company that i could rely on, that did all of the hard work for me. i'm jessica alba, and the honest company was my dream.
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>> welcome to "red eye." it's like boy meet world, if you mean boy -- if you are watching, don't try, let's go to tv's andy levy, what is coming up on tonight's show. >> thanks, coming up a democratic congressman said that a global terrorism ad is offensive to terrorists. and pauladeen is fired anyway even after apologizing. and president obama's trip

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