tv Your World With Neil Cavuto FOX News June 26, 2013 1:00pm-2:01pm PDT
got him, we want him. but they say we ain't getting him. it is time to get mad and give them an ultimatum now. hand him over or we could be looking at the cold war all over. welcome. i'm neil cavuto. john carrie -- john carrie says we are not look forget a fight, but russia is picking one. nsa leak erred -- leaker ed snowden is holed up and to arizona senator john mccain who says enough is enough. senator, so much to do today and thank you for joining us. what do you think of the
vladimir putin essentially taunting us with this guy? >> well, i think we ought to have a realistic assessment of our relationship with the russians and him specifically. he is an old kgb colonel that believes he can somehow restore the press stege of the old -- prestige of the old russian empire. the demographics and everything else including the economy dependent on oil works against him. but we've got to look at him from a realistic standpoint and that is that he is a person who feels so em -- embolden who doesn't mind sticking his thumb in our eye which is what he is doing in this snowden case. when they first came out, neil, and they said well he is not in russia. that's the old soviet speak. that's the old cold war speak. he wasn't in russia.
he was in the transit lounge. give me a break. what do we need to do? one i would reenvigorate our missal defense capabilities in europe which we conceded to them in hopes of the, quote, recess. how many times have we set the reset button, by the way? we should make clear that human rights abuses took place in the death and murder and the bill we passed should be expanded to include other russian violators of human rights as well. and we should make sure they understand -- there are several other measures, but to understand what this is. >> is it traitor? >> i think he has violated laws. i think he is subject to criminal prosecution for what he has done, and i think we really have revealed his true character when he flees to countries whose human rights record and transparency and all of the things he says he
stands for are certainly not abundant. i am not sure if the word traitor is the word, but certainly he has harmed american national security interests. without a doubt he has given ammunition to people like china who are saying, see, americans spy on people too. so it is okay for the chinese to attack -- to launch cyberattacks against our most highly classified military capabilities. >> let me switch gears to the immigration bill that could be on the verge of becoming law. i am hearing the behind the scenes guys like you were trying to win over conservatives in particular. and you were even calling the movers and shakers, but you didn't call me, so i was a little offended, but that's fine. it is having the desired affect. if that was the case there is more support among this than was the case before. do you think that is the case?
>> there's no doubt about it. i have lived through this for quite awhile now, and it is vastly different. we are going to get in the high 60s number of votes, and we will get a good, solid republican vote out of it. >> did you call movers and shakers? did you call big conservatives like i am hearing a lot of my colleagues? >> no, i did not call them. no. i did call other people. >> you called other people, but i was not on that list either. >> i knew i would have a chance sooner or later to see you in all of your splendor on television. >> there you go. good answer. >> i saved a dime. i think we have made enormous progress. do we have enormous hurdles still? >> you think it is going to pass? >> yes. we would like to see more republican senators than we are probably going to see, but we are going to see a
significant number of both republican and democrat. and then we have to work along with the business community, along with the growers, along with the angel cals and along with this broad coalition to try to convince our colleagues in a friendly fashion that they should take up this legislation and pass it and then let's go to congress. >> you have an uphill battle with rand paul. he said whether or not these people become citizens, under the gang of 8 bill it is up to the president. i don't care if it is a republican president or democratic president, it is too much power for one person to have. what do you think? >> as far as i know we put together a bill and went through the judiciary committee and we are now in our third week on the floor of the senate. it is a normal process i have grown used to after many years of service in the united states senate. >> so he is wrong? are you saying he is wrong? >> i frankly don't know exactly what he is talking
about, neil. we have gone through the normal process. we have a president who has been supportive of the process. not in agreeing everything, but supportive. the way we usually work is we pass a bill, the house passes a bill. we go to conference and we come out with the legislation and signed by the president after it is passed again by both houses. that's the process we are going through. >> he said they say ronald reagan was hood winked on this tighter border security and even regan regretted what amounted to many critics say the first amnesty bill, if you will. and they didn't police that enforcement to the degree he hoped. >> well i have to tell you unfortunately or for fortunately, i was there at the time. what happened, congress did not appropriate the funds or take the action to get the border secure. it wasn't ronald regan who didn't do it. it was the congress of the united states. >> how do you know it won't happen again?
>> because this has triggers that are iron clad in my view. they will tell you that it isn't. i am telling you that it is. there is a commitment -- and by the way, the border is much, much more secure. at the time that was passed in 1986 we had 4,000 border patrol agents. now we have 21,000. this legislation will give 20,000 more. look, this will be the most well defended border since the berlin wall went down. so for those people who say this isn't good enough, their problem is not border security, neil. it is other problems they have with legislation that would bring 11 million people out of the shadows. >> now mexico is kind of feeding some conservative fierce. they are complaining about this, but at the same time they are arguing, go ahead and grant them some amnesty or the equivalent and work on the border security thing later. we find the border security thing offensive. what do you think of that and
what it counts on as another reason to delay this. >> let me try to explain that we give them legal status, legal status as long as they haven't committed crimes and phac background -- background checks including learning english. and then it is a 10-year process before they are eligible for a green card. then it is another three years or so before they can achieve citizenship. they pay fees of hundreds and hundreds of dollars as in every step of the way. meanwhile, we employ technology which we did not have back in 1986 that would give us a secure border and an ability to survey situational awareness of 100% ineffective control of 90%. this is vastly different from 1986, and i was here at the time and i can assure you of that fact.
all i can tell you is this, if we don't do something and we would be glad to deal with the house of representatives they will have defacto amnesty of our 11 million people. they are not going to self-deport and they are not going to be sent away, and they will be living in the shadows of our society. you can't convince me that that's healthy for america. >> you were talking about you were there from 1986. was it 1886? >> 1976 was -- 17 76 was one of our best years as you recall. >> indeed. touche. i guess i just missed the call. tonight, fox business exclusive. my chat with a guy who has been there, done that. take a look. >> the government was mad at me before. they are seriously mad at me now. there is no hope for my life
if i return to police. >> remember that? escape from belize and to escape what he said were bogus murder charges. tonight on fbn, what they are saying about ed snowden's life on the run. it is an exclusive interview you can catch tonight at 8:00 p.m. you don't get it? get it. or i will go to your house. a big stock market rally that was on weak economic news. gdd coming in a lot lower than we thought, 1.8% versus a prior read at 2 pone 4%. 2.4%. they said that's the market. bad news or good news? >> i said it before and will say it again. ben bernanke was not definitive in his statement. he made some definitive statements, but they were qualified as to whether he will stop printing money. he basically said if the economy doesn't improve, i am going to keep printing.
by the way, his replacement because he will probably be replaced -- >> do you think he will serve out the term? >> i think he will serve to the end of the year. but his replacement will be janet young who is more of a money printer than he is. >> so $85 billion is a lot more. >> if we keep having 1.8% gdp prints which means the economy is barely growing if you think about it. corporate profits could be good, but people aren't working here, i think that is worrisome for any central planner. and that's what they are, central planners. >> charlie, you have been covering the markets for a longtime. it is weird, is it not, to have them betting and hoping we don't get news that is too good? >> it is weird only in the face of the fact that the markets are just -- they believe this is an unpopular thing to say in many corners of the media, but the markets just don't trust this president's economic abilities. they look at stimulus plans and it goes to cylindra.
he wanted to raise taxes when he got in there. the republicans prevented him from doing that. i think when you take a president that wants to raise taxes in the face of fiscal financial stress of the country, the markets say this guy doesn't have a clue. then they say who has a clue to get the economy growing? the feds will keep printing money. that's what the market will say. >> they prefer that over what will de wean us. >> remember when paul voker de weaned us? that's the one example i can theng of. greenspan did it when he was chairman in 1994. in the late 70s and early 80s it was worse. the economy does slow down. when you pop those -- >> but good. >> maybe, but i'm telling you this is what the market fears. the market fears the acid bubble when it bursts because there will be a bursting. bond markets will do gown. -- will go down.
orange county basically went bankrupt. that's what the market fears when you de wean us. >> was it wean us? >> you are weaned off and not de weaned. >> why do we have weaner on the mind? >> i don't know. >> oh, political. charlie is the best in the business and he has the best coming out. it is off the charts great. you can say the name. i thought -- >> no, you can say it. i think the official date is monday. but the real official day because of the fourth of july holiday. >> where are you debuting? >> i am debuting here. that's what you get when you come here. what did mccain just call you? he had a great line. >> splendid. and by the way, you don't have to wear a tie to come on here. >> next time i will wear my wife beater and gold chains. >> now, to the 9-1-1 over your
snooping is making you uneasy, the health care law may make you queasy. this new law is creating a treasure trove of information. it is to the number of dollars you make in a year and it is being compiled into a super data hub. jennifer, what do you think? >> i think it is legal. i don't think it is akin to the nsa scandal. but it does raise some serious privacy concerns. if the federal government can't keep our information private, they are going to run into some -- potential legality issues.
if they will run into this hub, then they need to keep that information protected. if they can't do it, they are going to have some problems. >> we have places where i just gave you this information. now you have to give them the same information. one agency after another has the same information. it is going spill out somewhere. >> that's why there is an argument that it is not legal. it has to be reasonably tailored. if you are infringing on my fourth amendment rights you are talking blood tests, drug tests and all of that information and you better have it tailored for what you need. the type of information they are talking about sharing with the irs and all of these agencies, a plothora of agencies, it doesn't seem tailored to what they need to do to make it efficient. and does efficiency outweigh my fourth amendment rights to my drug test? >> well, people are not being forced to participate. these are for low income individuals who need to participate in the program. it is like getting a mortgage. you have to give up a lot of
information when you go to get a mortgage. >> when everyone is part of the program, ventsly everyone will be a -- eventually everyone will be a part of the program. it does raise privacy concerns. there are identity theft concerns. if somebody can get your social security number and access it. >> i just don't like who has it. it is the irs. >> the government. and they have shown they can't keep our information. >> i don't want to give them more. >> understood. >> they said they will expand the privacy and there will be less sharing. and now they will expand it to anybody who wants it. >> knowing what has happened and i would like to think the exceptions were not the rule, but there were enough exceptions to make me wonder about the guys making the rules. >> there needs to be more transparency on how it was going to be implemented. if they promised me, don't worry. this won't get out. >> i understand how it is going to be done. >> you know how it will be done. you will have the information and some moron will have it on
his desk. >> we are in a new era, neil. we need to figure out how to do these things effectively. >> you are talking about totally redesigning obamacare. >> implementing it in a slower way. you are right. do they know how they will do this? >> i can see us heading toward an iceberg. if you know all of the problems along the way, there is ice there and ice there. whoa! look at that. you have to say, you know i will turn direction here. just deal with it. >> they keep trying to do minor adjustments to the north and south compass rather than saying stop, stop. >> you would surrender everything? you are not even a patriot. >> listen. i am a pro civil rights advocate. i hope it is done in a way that protects our privacy.
well, instead of targeting political groups, maybe they should target how they are spending taxpayer cash. a new report showing irs credit cards and paying for items like wine, porn, popcorn machines. i wonder if it is at the same time. thousands of dollars are shelled out for this stuff. the timing couldn't be worse. you are right about that. what do you think? >> the employees sound like so much more fun than you would imagine the irs employees. the only problem is they are doing on our dime. there are booze purchases and porn purchases and they claim the credit cards were stolen
to make those. you notice from a lot of the other irs stores a lot of dressing up in costumes. >> well don't knock it unless you try it. my po nie t is -- point is how does the irs end up paying for it? >> the entire federal government is large and it is hard to keep track of exactly what everyone is doing. as you know, neil, when you are spending someone else's money it is not as important to be careful with it as when you are spending your own. that's the problem with spending at many agencies. we saw when they had their hot tub parties and now we see it with the irs. >> they should get together because they sound like a fun bunch. i am wondering though, the timing of this is such that we now know the irs will be taking health care. i think we have to sort a lot of this out. it is an abba ration. abbaration.
the bigger the government gets and with the waste fraud and abuse rule of thumb, obviously we will have more and more of this stuff. why don't we get a handle on that before we hand out maury responsibilities. >> that's for. if you can show me they are using everything they have now you can feel free about talking about growing the government. that's not the case. they are using 2.4 million for a conference in atlanta where they get to dress up in nike shorts as olympic athletes. that's not cutting it. the thing is about folks who are for this kind of thing they say it is a small percentage of the budget. it is perverse to use the.. >> began tech nature of the budget you used to excuse $3 million on popcorn machines which the average american in tough times say is not indulging in. >> at first i thought it was popcorn. and then i heard oh no the popcorn machine. >> i wouldn't put it past the government to spend $3,000 on popcorn, very special popcorn. >> thank you very much.
in the meantime, look at these headlines. the needy again are playing down the irs scandal of a documents reveal liberals were targeted too. they say it doesn't change a thing for the conservatives caught up in this mess. katrina pearson who said if liberal were targeted it wasn't like she was. why do you find this comparison wanting? >> well, it is an interesting comparison that has been made, neil, simply because the irs openly, willingly admitted to targeting conservative groups. we have 23,000 members with several hundred neighborhood coordinators which we had people independently audited. this was significant in fundraising efforts in the last election cycle. and now the other groups say they were targeted? >> who cares. who cares whether it is liberals or even a lot of liberals.
hospital liberals and conservatives been sensed that a government was using its resources to shake down groups whether they are liberal or conservative? i think it is mostly conservative. i think some of the liberal groups the targeted words were occupy or you can claim to be opposed to the administration. leaving that aside, that's not what the irs should be doing. >> absolutely not. you are absolutely right. we are talking about individual and entities operating in the united states of america where our government is supposed to be designed to protect it is rights we have under the constitution when in fact they are abusing them on every level. the irs is one example as opposed to everything else happening today. we still have not received our tax exempt status, although i do hear there is a website stating we did, but we have not received communication from the irs having received our status. here we are three years later and still dealing with the issue. there has been no resolve.
>> you know what i find amazing, to your point and it was a good p oi nt that the irs admitted it was targeting conservatives. it didn't say it was targeting liberals. but we find out some liberal groups were targeted. i think given some of the words they were looking for and referencing because they may have been opposed to things the administration was doing, but that's a personal thought. but that aside there is a consistency to this story about abusing our rights and really shaking us down and shaking us in our boots in the process. they work for us. we have to remember that. it is not the other way around. there is very little cover when you say, well, we throw in a couple of liberal groups and all is fair in love and war. no, it is not. >> it is not. we have the mainstream media that is really trying to cover the tracks of all of these scandals. it is no secret they are the janitor y'all service. >> they were targeting you.
katrina i would say, guys, mainstreamers you were targeted. are you okay with that? yes we are because at least we were included in this group. now it is not just conservatives who you can be sympathetic for. that's not how it goes. >> and some of the headlines they are trying to downplay it. here is the thing with the irs scandal specifically when it comes to conservative groups. you have the government who targeted the most patriotic groups in this country who teachers and the constitution. these are people who are very much aware of their constitutional rights. there are not enough notes the federal reserve can reprint for apologies. this issue is not going away anytime soon. >> katrina, thank you very, very much. i always sound like a broken record on this, but it is the numbers on the paper the irs looks at. the numbers. it is not the philosophy behind them. think of that. left or right? wrong. we are fighting to beef up the border to stop and now mexico
it, you are married in new york, you move to texas. one of the spouses retires. is that spouse and the other spouse dies is there a survivor benefit under social security? yes. it doesn't matter what state you are in. now suppose you are married in new york and move to texas and you work for a corporation that does business in texas and new york, does that corporation have to give spousal benefits even though the state of texas doesn't recognize it? they didn't rule on that. but the rule is if they do work with the federal government or receives benefit from the federal government it must treat its employ ease the federal government treats its employees. so just because a state does not recognize same-sex marriages does not mean that corporations doing business in that state are free from any additional financial burden as a result of the invalidation of section 3 of doma today.
>> what a lot of companies might decide for the better part of the argument and valor, we will just go ahead and provide these benefits. >> i think if you listened to david who represented the plaintiffs speak outside the supreme court they are going to use language from the supreme court's decision in doma that talks about how marriage is a fundamental liberty and it is none of the government's business who you choose as a mate. if you try and persuade courts that don't recognize same sex marriage and to force corporates to do business there -- >> but gosh i would imagine all in one way shape or form stand to do or will do business with the united states government. by definition they have to adhere to this. >> yes. >> so by that it is a big victory for gays. >> it is a big victory for gays and it is a big victory for the spouse of the married gay partner. i think you will see a lot of corporations throwing up the towel and saying we are going
to treat same-sex marriages as we do heterosexual marriages. >> a lot of them already do. >> our own does. >> yes and is a lead player in that. so this notion that many in the business community are saying this is going to be costly and all. a lot are already doing it, right? >> the large corporations, the fortune 500. the medium and small are not doing it because they are going to feel the increase. the large are doing it because the competition is doing it. there is a competition for the best workers. they don't want the issue of will my spouse gets benefits to stop a talented person from getting hired there. i don't know if the court thought about this, but in fairness the court these financial issues were not before it. the only issues were the constitutional ones. can the federal government give a benefit to a het heterosexual couple and deny it to a same sex couple? the answer after today clearly, unequivocally is no. benefit to one. benefit to the other. >> but anytime there is an
interpretation that one has gotten special treatment over the other the lawsuits are coming. >> yes. yes the lawsuits are coming. places like texas where same-sex marriage is not only not recognized, is it is unlawful, that will be challenged by the same people who prevailed in the supreme court today. >> you have been a tour de force -- >> business for lawyers as stewart would say. >> he loves anything that could help capitalism. he doesn't care what benefits. >> god bless him. >> thank you very much. fnc when this broke and then fbn he popped on gnat dash -- on nat geo. you were on speed too. another border battle is heating up. it is not among them. with them? i want to make things more secure.
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well, look at the good news. at least somebody can sell brat the black -- celebrates the blackhawks winning the stanley cup. they are putting the city of chicago's debt outstanding on a watch list for possible down grade. of course that city, that state is no stranger to finance problems that have bedeviled its governor and this on the heels of detroit all but in bankruptcy. they are pro pairing -- preparing for a possible down grade. we will keep you updated. and meantime there is a firestorm of mexico blasting
putting up more fencing and guards along the border. you have to get tough, so tough. i guess i am not surprised, but they were pretty vocal about it. >> yes, and we don't need to ask mexico or any other country not only to protect our country, but to secure our borders. most nations around the world actually use their military. this latest proposal by the senate to add 20,000 additional u.s. border patrol agents is not militarizing the border. >> you like the proposal. you think this is a step in the right direction? >> i don't. >> oh you don't? >> i am against the senate gang of eight. i believe the house offered by gave raw tee -- garrify and goodlat is the way to go. enforce our laws before we get down this path. i disagree with senator mccain and lyndsay graham and all of these senators who are doing a cart wheel and
high five like this will solve america's problem. i point back like rand paul says , this is a replay of 1986. you can promise 20,000 more border agents, yet you can promise 50,000. the fact is the federal government, i do not trust them. they are not securing the border today. they are not enforcing our laws today. we have to stop the gang of eight. >> do you think though sheriff, what senator mccain was telling me earlier that they went ahead and put in some of these more tough provisions on enforcing the border as a way to win over doubters like yourself? that they really do want to get these -- and make sure the border is secured first because the way it is written, you are right, the devil is in the detail in implementing it, but the way it is written they would get the border up to snuff and then address these other issues. you don't buy it. >> i talked to senator
mccain and senator rubio and they are asking me and the rest of america to trust january huh-uh pal -- janet napolitano to come up with a plan. what has been her job the last four years. she says the border is secure. why would we trust this administration to do something when we are giving up all of this and giving a path to citizenship? we hillary pete history. smart men like newt gingrich and ronald reagan were given the same deal before. the second half after amnesty was given was never followed through on. i fear the same thing is going to happen here. so secure the border first. there is no argument that can say why we are not protecting our country and securing our border. it is not just about illegals. it is about the cartels. we arrested 76 cartel members in my county with 108 guns. don't tell me the border is secure. in a post 9/11 world with the terrorist threat, this is why
we need to secure our border. secure the border first and then we can have a dispassionate conversation about what we do with 11 million to 20 million illegals. >> got you. sheriff, great seeing you. thank you very much. >> good to see you, neil. >> a quick post on the sheriff, a lot saying they thought i was part of a group of the big opinion leaders and thinkers that some of these gang of eight senators were pursuing to win over. i wish that were the case. i got no such call. hope springsy -- springs eternal, but i didn't get it. this just in, america's energy is under attack. and i mean hackers.
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in all the time the energy industry was wondering about environmentalists destroying it, it turns out that hackers are getting the chance right now. energy supply outages for months, refinery explosions, even see people die, pipeline shut downs, rig damage, oil spills. casey mcfarland says it is very scary and has nothing to do with environmentalism and everything to do with keeping us alive. >> we are one of the most vulnerable, everything is on the internet, electric, water filtration, particularly the energy. one of the top issues is cyber security. how do we know we have been hacked? how do we protect ourselves from being hacked?
how do we know if we have been hacked we have been sabotaged. it is increasingly one of the major issues. >> you do something to take down the power grid as we rely more and more on the power grid and plugging cards into it, be careful what you wish for. >> saudi arabia, saudi ramco was hacked last year and they were attacked, so two-thirds of their kpurs were just destroyed. you clicked in, logged in, saw a picture of a burning american flag. not only did they lose 30,000 computers but all the data stored on them as well. they think it was an attack by iran, nobody claimed credit. but we are in a whole new world, neil, and it is not just energy companies or the electric group, it is everything. that's what this snowden, edward snowden, has shown everybody. everybody is watching everything we're doing. so there's nothing that's safe
any more. every aspect of our lives. >> maybe turn it around. maybe what snowden is doing is a public service to bring people's attention to the fact that this is out there, we have to be doing more of it. >> i am not sure he is busy doing public services. >> apparently he's stuck in a moscow airport. >> and putin saying nothing to do with us. this is like the dog ate my homework. that's where that excuse is. >> the point being? >> we are vulnerable, and the american military put up a cyber command, what that does, it protects the american military, offensive, defensive cyber weapons, but the really vulnerable part is the civilian infrastructure and economy. >> do you think bad guys look at the dust over the nsa, like it because maybe we will pull back from snooping? >> i think everybody is snooping, period. that's one of the things that snowden revealed, unfortunately
revealed it to the chinese, that we are snooping as well. >> how do you look at him, hero, hack? >> you have to separate the two. what he revealed us something we all want to know, and it is a little frightening, very frightening because it can be abused by government. on the other hand, the way he did it was wrong. if he really wanted to be a patriot, he could have gone to the house or senate committees or to the inspector general in agencies, he could have done it -- >> he could have looked at the experience of other whistleblowers -- >> go to congress then. senator rand paul has been one of the leaders of this age. we would be hailing snowden as a great american hero instead of somebody that's going to china, russia, cuba, maybe venezuela. >> where did ecuador come in? >> because they give asylum. >> he knows these countries have horrible human rights records. >> he will find out real soon. >> you're the best. thank you.
meantime, do you ever wonder what edward snowden is thinking? we can't do that because he is a fugitive doing his best to stay out of the country. but we have john mcafee, former software titan many call the charlie sheen of the business world. this will whet your appfirst. >> i had nothing to do with mcafee software over 15 years. i had more pressing things to do. my name is mike and i quit smoking. chantix... it's a non-nicotine pill. i didn't want nicotine to give up nicotine. [ male announcer ] along with support, chantix (varenicline) is proven to help people quit smoking. [ mike ] when i was taking the chantix, it reduced the urge to smoke. [ malennouncer ] some people had changes in behavior, thinking or mood, hostility, agitation,
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vladimir putin clearly enjoying taunting the administration over the leak erin his country, not all fugitives lack friends but john mcafee did. one of the most colorful men on the run takes a pit stop with us. who better to discuss a man who printed out a lot of stuff from an nsa computer than the guy that developed software to combat computer viruses, who like snowden not only rips his former place of unemployment but does him one better, making a youtube video mocking the very company he founded. >> mcafee updates have horrible times, almost like the creators want you to die.
>> i've got you, don't i? i have you hooked. three hours from now, you will be back here. john mcafee, fingered for a murder and belize, he believes a setup, the escape from belize and james bond saga of fake disguises and feigned illnesses that got him here. he is not one to talk to media much, but he is don't. this is only on fox business. get ready to be stunned. i am thinking of you at home that may not have fbn. you have three hours. filling out the clock the next 20 seconds. it is interesting. this guy used to be one of the
richest people on the planet and got into a bunch of trouble. very controversial. they call him the ironman character, you will quickly see why tonight. i'm dane dane with kim kim, bob kendrick, greg greg. fiefz in new york city. paula deen takes on the network. her career in free fall. here is paula deen. >> i am here today because i want people to know who i am. >> would you have fired you? >> would i have fired