tv Justice With Judge Jeanine FOX News June 30, 2013 1:00am-2:01am PDT
they come here to kill us and we worry what they think of us. america should protect you? your sons killed us. why would you give the criminals an advantage over an unharmed citizenry? get the hell out of your elitist egg head tower, put on your big boy pants -- they did it again. they pled the fifth. the most transparent administration in history locked down and wrapped up in the very constitution they continue to chip away at. but then again pleading the fifth is better than lying or committing perjury, we know they
would never do that. but will the wrong doers be held accountable? don't hold your breath. we're still waiting for festivity and furious and benghazi accountability. hello and welcome to justice. i'm judge jeanine pirro. thanks for wk being with us tonight. i have so much more to say about the president and his irs. first there are two criminal cases gripping the nation, george zimmerman and aaron hernandez. we begin tonight with the zimmerman case. this week the star witness for the prosecution, rachel jeantel took the stand to give her account the night trayvon martin died. almost immediately commentaries started on jeantel's appearance and her demeanor. with me is a jury consultant who has been in the courtroom and fox news contributor. good evening. >> hi, judge jeanine.
>> in my time as a d.a. trying cases i learn witnesses come in all sizes and all shapes. we don't pick them. they don't even pick themselves. and they are certainly not out of central casting. some arearticulate. some not. the criticism of this witness, the to speak to trayvon before the shooting was almost universal. what's your take on it? >> well, first of all, you know, we look at rachel she's 17 years old but looks much older. i think that it's very difficult for people to understand that she's not really, was not an adult really when this all happened. and she was basically judged by her, by the entire jury and by everybody that's out there including the media. her demeanor was not good. i'll tell the first day she showed up she had a black shirt on, big hoop earrings, she suede in. you could tell she was hostile, didn't don't there, she was frustrated. you could tell in her voice
inflex, rolling of her eyes. >> susan, you have your own personal experience. share it with us for a moment. >> well, you know, this is the first time judge jeanine i shared this on national television. when i was age 15 that was 40 years ago i myself was a star witness in a murder trial. i was a babysitter in whom i was supposed to be sitting her 4-year-old child and her date stood her up and i was actually -- i was called and told not to show up because she was not going on a date. i was around the corner at a home at my girlfriend's house and the killer actually had entered into her home and stabbed her 21 times with a knife. >> so you are a major witness. how old you were when you testified? >> i was the main. absolutely. >> how old were you >> i was is a years old. i was the main person that put him behind bars for second-degree murder. >> can you relate to the demeanor at all of rachel
jeantel? >> well, what i can relate to is actually just the enormous amount of fear, judge jeanine. what it's like to be face to face with a killer. with someone that you're looking at that i'm going to be the one putting behind bars and it's very infringme very frightening. i can relate to what it feels like foray chel becau-- for rac unfamiliarity. having all the attention on you and people looking at you and grasping every word you say. >> i want to go to santina. what do you think of rachel and the fact that she's almost universally criticized? >> well she's not universally criticized, i have to tell you this. they have not what we expected. she's this coffee colored perfectly coifed young lady who
was so cool and so composed. we did not expect trayvon's girlfriend who we had been hearing about for the past year to be so dark and lovely. we're in a looks driven society and still have a lot of contempt for dark, dark, dark skinned people but beyond that -- >> but what about her manner? >> her manner, her defiance was stunning to people but she was standing her ground. she was determined to tell trayvon's story. i can agree with my colleague with the other guest that this was a tremendous burden for this young woman although she's 19 now, she was a child then and i still consider thoeshher to be child. she's the star witness. she can put someone away for life. she's trying to figure it out how it is the police told this man to stay in the car and trayvon ended up dead.
>> don west posted this instagram, we pate stupidity. celebration cones. is this case about race very quickly, susan >> you know, they want to deny that it's not about race when i heard the most recent press conference. it really does come down to race and they change it from race to profiling. it's beyond profiling, it is about race. >> is it about race? >> i can tell you, absolutely. in part it's about race but the stupidity comment was insulting. this young woman is not just uni lincoln, she's monthly bilingual, she's tri-lingual. >> more zimmerman and the latest on aaron hernandez. could the nfl star be linked to a 2012 double homicide?
♪ >> the def >> when you observed the defendant, did you say he walked towards you >> yes. >> did you notice any blood on him? >> yes. >> where did you notice the blood? >> down his nostrils. >> you also asked him what happened? >> yes. >> and he said this guy was beating me up and i shot him. >> i had to defend myself and i shot him. >> i'm sorry. >> i was defending myself and i shot him. >> more explosive testimony in the george zimmerman trial, charged of course with entrepreneur of trayvon martin. joining me now is former prosecutor and author of "killer ambition" marcia clark from california and criminal defense attorney, former prosecutor. marcia and richard thanks for being with us this evening.
marcia, the prosecution has to prove that zimmerman was not defending himself bust trayvon is dead. how do we know? can we ever get a complete story here? >> you know, i don't think that you ever well and that's really very common in criminal trials. you have one party to the action is deceased and can't tell his side of the story. but we put together as much as we can and hope that all of the big pieces are in the correct places. in this case we have a lot of back and forth. at this point there's some evidence now that there may have been a valid claim of self-defense. there's evidence however that george zimmerman was the aggressor. we're about halfway through the prosecution's case or maybe a little bit more. we do have to hear from the coroner. the autopsy will be important to show what kind of injuries trayvon martin had. the angle of the bullet. the trajectory of the bullet. we have a lot more to go. >> but, you know, as marcia says, richard there's been a lot of testimony as to who was on
top during the fight, testimony regarding the blood on zimmerman. is there any clear picture here yet of what happened? >> i think there's a very clear picture. you can't overlook the wounds on zimmerman. there are wounds in the front and wounds in the back. there are lacerations on the back of his head and they are consistent with what his story is and with the testimony of the neighborhood, of the neighbor john good who testified that he believes based on the color of the clothing that martin was on top and zimmerman was on the bottom. he believed he saw a type of like what he described an mma ground and pound maneuver with martin being on the top. >> mma mixed martial arts. isn't the guy who was taking the martial arts class? >> maybe he wasn't paying attention in class. but he had a broken nose, bilateral black eyes and wounds in the back of his head. >> march sharks what richard is
saying is this guy has injuries. but is that enough to justify his shooting trayvon martin? >> well, that is the issue. that's the issue, judge, right there. yes, of course, he is injured. we've known that from the start. we knew there was a struggle between them. we knew some kind of a contact had between them. trayvon got some licks in and we'll find out what happened to trayvon. at the end of the day the jury has to decide are the wounds that zimmerman suffered evidence of sufficient force having been used upon him to show that he was reasonably fearful of imminent death or great bodily injury? that's what the jury will have to decide. some will look at those wound, i look at the back of the head, front. face and say, you know, it doesn't look that bad. on the other hand, somebody can be in the throes of being beaten up and feel like the end is near regardless of what the injuries look like at the end.
>> even though objectively we may say this guy didn't go to the hospital, you're saying that in his own mind, in his subjective perception, richard, that will dictate whether or not he was justified in taking a gun and shooting trayvon? >> not subjective. he is to be objectively, a reasonable man standard is in play. a reasonable person has to fear death or great bodily injury regardless of what george zimmerman felt. you have to step outside and say a reasonable person would feel that way. >> if there's a subjective feeling i'm going lose it and he's not out of the reasonable man standard then? >> well, if it comes down to it. it comes down-to-the-wire. it's very close. he gets up on that stand. he has to. he has to get up on the stand and say i was fearing for my life. look at my nose. i had black eyes. look at the wound in the back of my head. this is what i'm telling you.
this is how i felt. you have to feel how i felt on that day. if he does it and is successful he's going home. >> marcia, do you think he'll take the stand, zimmerman? >> no, i don't. i don't think they will. i don't think he needs to. now at the point in time we're at and we're not done with the case they have enough to get an instruction on self-defense. if he takes the stand and says something that's framed it's possible that the jury will think at the very least he was in imminent danger even though if it's not reasonably be true. if the jury thinks he thought so but i don't think a reasonable person would that would still be a manslaughter charge. >> we're wrapping right now. you think there's going not guilty? >> i do. >> all right. supported by an argument? >> i think the wounds speak for themselves and i think the testimony of the neighbors support the wounds and support
hispanics out there a drive be able to be successful. >> not exact lei role model. actually more of a thug. in a addition to facing charges for the shooting death of an acquaintance the former nfl star is being investigated for a double homicide in 2012. but can body art as you see in this picture be used as a road map to direct investigators in a murder case? with me is bristol county sheriff in whose jail hernandez now cyst and former homicide detective and current milwaukee sheriff david clark. good evening gentlemen. and i'll go the right you they have -- right to you, sheriff. you're trying to link this guy to gangs. without compromising the investigation what can you tell us? >> well, judge, i can't really get into the specifics about what our investigators have found but the purpose of our doing this in the prison is to make sure that when we place this person into a particular
unit, if, in fact, our intelligence, gang intelligence officers finds a symbol or something that may indicate he may have had a gang affiliation at one i'm or another we don't put him ainu knit with a rival gang member where there could be a risk to him and other inmates. >> what you're seeing is the identification of gang membership based upon a review of those body tatoos is more for his protection. but, you know, i'm going to go to sheriff clark now. sheriff, you've done a lot of these homicide investigations, body tatoos, your experience? >> sure. good evening, judge. there are warning signs and it's hard to ignore. he's got the word blood tattooed on his hand or his wrist. always in the color red and then red is the color of choice for the blood street gang and when
you close the forefinger and hold up the finger it's a sign. >> some of the tieears, some of the tear drops indicate a member of your gang that has died or has been killed? >> that is one of the other symbols. you know the thing is gang members don't hide their involvement. a lot of that is done to boast. they want other people to know, they want other gang members to know. it won't be these things are hidden in and amongst the other tattoos in the body art that he has going on there. >> you know, there are those who say, sheriff hodson the fact he's not admitting to being a member of a gang maybe an indication that, you know, he reeling doesn't want to have to prove himself at this point in
the jail. >> well, look, it's a very dangerous -- it's a whole different ball game when you're inside a closed environment like a prison and you're ainu knit with rival gang members. we have major gang issues in our county. the other thing that makes it sort of difficult is that he's a high-profile person, has star quality. and whether he's in a gang or not there may be someone who might think that hey if i can prove something to some friends or some group that i hang out with that i did something to hurt this guy, that might increase my stature amongst the group that i hang with. >> how is this role model doing in prison? >> actually, we're moderating him now. he's doing pretty well. we'll be watching him over the
next couple of days. do another classification review come monday. but so far he's been very polite, very respectful and he has been pretty much a model inmate. not had any issues thus far. >> finally, sheriff clark, the evidence, you think it's solid against him? >> well, it's not looking good for mr. hernandez right now. kudos to the investigators. these are allegations right now. but if you were to ask me based on my experience investigating many homicides i would say it doesn't look good for mr. hernandez. >> sheriff i agree with you. the circumstantial evidence seems very strong. the issue now is the 2012 homicides. sheriff hodson and sheriff clark thank you for being with us. coming up after the break, the cookie jar and the irs, my opening statement.
we have a job to do out here today. to be a winning team, you have to work like a winning team. my team depends on me. and my team? is 50,000 strong. ♪ hey! looks like a lot of work's going into this. hawkins: this is what it feels like to be part of a team. kimbrel: a winning team. the action team. are you in? action team! get in on the action at actionteam.org. are you in?
said no decision will be made until snowden is on ecuador's ground. now i don't begrudge anyone asserting their constitutional the right remain silent. but i can't stand it when there's a double standard. when what's sacred to them is denied to us. this week another senior irs official invoked the fifth amendment before a congressional committee seeking answers on the obama administration's targeting of political enemies. the fifth amendment. this is the same administration that couldn't wait to trample on the first amendment freedom of the press, couldn't wait to trample on the second amendment
right to bear arms, that use the nsa to trample all over the fourth amendment rights of every one of us and then, of course, lied about it. now, when they are caught with their hands in the cookie jar, what do they do? they wrap themselves up in the american flag, thank god for that declaration of independence, those precious constitutional rights, that body of law that allows me to remain silent, avoid the truth, keep getting a check and a bonus to boot. enter the obama administration's playbook. first deny. then lie. then commit perjury. and if you can't beat the clock and they are still coming after you, plead the fifth. >> one of the basic functions of the fifth amendment is to protect innocent individuals and that is the protection i'm invoke today. >> on the advice of counsel i respectfully decline to answer
any questions and invoke my fifth amendment privilege to remain silent. >> there's only one person that can plead the fifth better than those two bozos. >> is it true you were a crack could in a dealer for seven years. >> i plead the fifth. >> how much money did you earn in your time as a crack cocaine dealer? >> i said -- there's so many amendments in the constitution of the united states of america. i can only choose one. i can only choose one. i plead the fifth. plead fifth. five, one two three four fifth. anything you say fifth. go ahead and ask me a question. >> did you --
>> fifth. >> if the irs didn't have so much power and ability to destroy lives we could just keep laughing. but their abuses continue to plague the american taxpayers. $50 million to dance like fools, play dress up, buy some booze, get loaded and sleep in those presidential suites. these irs party animals are in line to get $70 million in bonuses for quotes substantially exceeding expectations. but, you know, don't have to substantially exceed expectations because virtually everybody gets bonus. for what? good play acting? it wasn't for sending $46 million to 23,000 unauthorized alien workers all at one address. 23,000 people living under the same roof. and these people deal with numbers for a living? forget "star trek."
their parody should have been "dumb and dumber." mr. president why won't you stop the financial blood letting. were you so shocked at the bunch of idiots working for you and the irs didn't burn the building down now you think you should reward them with bonuses. and this week we find out they are using irs issued credit cards to buy themselves little gifts like popcorn machines and diet pills and romance novels. a little wine to go with the romance novels. a little porn to go with the wine and the romance novels. yet in the presidential suite, no less. credit cards? why do these people even have credit cards? it's our credit. of course add a little corruption to the mix, deputy of the irs director awards the largest contract in irs history to a company owned by his close buddy, another irs bozo who took
the fifth. but have no fear, the president is going to make everyone accountable and appoint the savior of the day, the acting irs commissioner, he's going to come in and restore confidence. here with his conclusion. >> fact gathering is still ongoing, we have not found evidence of intentional wrongdoing by anyone at the irs or involvement in these matters by anyone outside of the irs. >> so why did you apologize? no intentional wrongdoing by anyone at the irs? are you stupid? no intentional wrongdoing? did they or did they not target conservatives after they lied and said they weren't doing i, after they were told not to do it. then they did it again and said that they didn't do it? were they having an out of body experience? and by the way, how would you
know? you admit you haven't spoken to shulman or learner or miller or roseman. under intense congressional questioning you pivot to the obama playbook. first, no. then i don't know. then there's no evidence. then you prove there was wrongdoing, i challenge your question. then you're looking into the facts. now you're going to wait for the justice department to do an investigation. great. in over his head holder gets another investigation he won't do. does this remind you of anything? remember benghazi? that arb that hilary appointed? they didn't get the facts but they had a conclusion. they didn't speak to hilary, they didn't ask the president if he issued the cross border authority. such a happy ending. and everybody is still working at the state department.
be folks, this is how it's done in washington. they don't want the truth. no one has been fired, sanctioned, prosecuted, people are on vacation, getting paid for not working and not doing their jobs. now they say at the irs that they are sorry about the conferences and the lavish spending and the targeting of conservatives and they want our forgiveness. i believe in redemption, forgiveness is divine. but in this case i think we should leave the forgiving to god and what's good for the goose is good for the gander. imagine you told the irs you're sorry u-didn't keep those receipts. do you really think they are going to say oh, no problem and then go away? if you make a mistake with the irs, you lose. there are certain fights you just can't win. like if you bring a knife to a gunfight, or you go into a fight
and you have to look all the way up at the other guy. you get my drift? i have an idea. until you the irs comes clean people made accountable and people start losing their jobs our tax dollars should go into an escrow account. you shouldn't be able to see it or spend another penny of our money on yourselves let alone get millions in bonuses and target the rest of us. you're a bunch of bullies. they say in our society we have zero tolerance for bullies. i'm not so sure that's the case here. and with me now is florida congressman santos house oversight committee. he joins us from florida. congressman thanks for being with us. you are a harvard trained lawyer. i understand that you were a military prosecutor as well.
i mean, is there any hope for getting the truth out of the irs? >> well, judge, it's very difficult when you have so many people pleading the fifth amendment. we were able on friday have a vote on lois learner. she proclaimed her innocence, made about nine fact the all statements trying to exonerate herself and we think she waived her right. we're bringing her back and see what she has to do. i think in your statement that you made is exactly what i feel having been in washington for seven months is that people commit misconduct within this bureaucracy and there's zero accountability. you can go in front of a congressional committee, take the fifth amendment and you don't lose your job. you get reassigned and continue to get paid and it's just very
from us trauting because i think the american people don't believe there's any accountability in washington. >> learner who is on the screen right now she's not working, getting paid and in line for one of the bonus and she's got six figure bonuses. how does that strike you? the woman who was managing the targeting of conservatives and tea party individuals is in line for a six figure bonus. >> well, it's obviously not acceptable. these bonuses with the irs for the whole organization have got incompletely out of hand. they really have shown a contempt for the taxpayer. here they are, they have immense power and yet they treat the american people, you know, in ways that i think are just completely unacceptable. so they -- look she's going to have to make a decision about coming and speaking with us if she still refuses to testify, then our committee is going to have to act in one way or
another perhaps holding her in contempt of congress but this is completely unacceptable she would be pleading the fifth after having attacked other people's first amendment rights and is now continuing to get paid and getting a bonus. >> thank you so much for being with us this evening. good luck to you after seven months. good luck. thank you. >> thank you. >> coming up, will kobe bryant and lebron james be the new pitch men for obama care? >> later benghazi.
lebron james with the slogan, obama care, it's a slam dunk. the obama administration wants the nba and other major sports to promote the health care law. will teaming up with sports stars do anything to sway the american public? with me is chris plante and democratic strategist mark hannah joining us from l.a. all right, guys, the latest poll shows a vast majority want all or some of the obama care health care law repealed. do you think and i'll start with you chris that it's appropriate for the white house to spend money on a program that most people don't even like?
>> well, i think at this point they are getting desperate and happy to spend other people's money in this honestly this propaganda campaign that the nfl has announced i'm not quite convinced that they are not going participate in this. the nba may still participate in it. this is cheesy. it smacks of desperation. i'm concerned that it sets a very negative precedent. if president bush had the nba and nfl out there pitching on invasion of iraq or pro life liberals would be upset. the other element, the california effort where they are funding with our dollars again, nearly $40 million in california alone to have school teachers essentially indoctrinate, brainwash children in the consume system so they will be dispatched to their homes to convince their parents and families that obama care is a great thing.
this is crazy. >> mark, what chris is talking about is that there's a grant that's being used to train kids in school about the health insurance, $37 million in grants. what do you think of that, mark? >> yeah. yeah. i'll talk about both points that chris made which i thought were well made because i think they are both very important. first, there was an effort by the bush administration to sponsor, for example, nascar, the u.s. army did that. that's part of the government. in my home state of massachusetts -- chris i didn't interrupt you. leapt me speak. in massachusetts we launched universal health care under governor mitt romney and nobody had complained about the boston red sox educating the public about this plan. this legislation requires the general public to know about the options that are available to them and one could easily
imagine why lebron james, for example, would want maybe in the neighborhood where he grew up, where there are kids there that are under insured or done that have privilege he does to gain awareness about the insurance that's available to them. whether or not the nba itself as an institution -- >> mark, quickly, do you think it's appropriate to put pressure on national sports leagues? >> i don't think they put pressure. what happened here, judge -- >> if the white house called you and asked you to do something would you say oh, gee i don't think so? >> they sent a letter wanting to explore possible partnerships. the republican congressman are behind the scenes getting on phone with these commissioners and telling them don't go for it. the time for politics is over. this is the law of the land. and so if the nba commissioner decides he want gross most the law of the land then they should. >> and, chris, before we wrap
here because i'm running out of time. do you think this is about smoothing the road for the 2014 elections w-an unpopular law that they want to make more popular? >> let me say first of all it doesn't bear any resemblance to the army sponsoring a nascar team. that's a completely different thing. everything that this administration does is geared towards the next elections. there's no doubt about that. they are happy they use our money popularize an unpopular theme. >> you're talking about the public health care fund that's being invaded they say up to half a billion dollars to educate our kids about obama care. thank you. coming up, ambassador chris stevens' diary, published online. ten months after the attack in benghazi. why are there still no answers? and, this is your last chance to vote in our instant poll. should taxpayer be used to promote obama care? facebook or tweet me at judg
we're cracking down on medicare fraud. the healthcare law gives us powerful tools to fight it... to investigate it... ...prosecute it... and stop criminals. our senior medicare patrol volunteers... are teaching seniors across the country... ...to stop, spot, and report fraud. you can help. guard your medicare card. don't give out your card number over the phone. call to report any suspected fraud. we're cracking down on medicare fraud. let's make medicare stronger for all of us.
pages from the diary pages from the diary of chris stevens would was killed along with three other americans in benghazi had been published online. in his latest entry, he wrote of a never ending security threats. almost ten months later, this administration has still given us no answers. with me is former cia operative mike baker who joins us from boise. mike, thanks for being with us. mike, we had to fight to figure out what happened and to prove that this massacre was not the result of a hateful video. now we see that there is a diary of the ambassador and clearly he was afraid for his own life.
what do you take from this? >> no. absolutely. absolutely. first of all, i and a lot of other people would like to thank you for keeping this story alive and somewhere near the front burner despite the administration's best efforts to try to make it go away. it's ten months since the attack. we're going on the first anniversary. i just -- i'm still just gob smacked that we're almost to the one-year mark and we have no real answers to very simple questions. but in terms of the diary, when you read this diary from ambassador stevens, the last thing he wrote in there is never ending security threats. never ending security threats. then he's dead. and, you know, we were led to believe, you know, after the attack and for quite some time afterwards that, you know, everything was fine. we were making progress and this is just a protest out of control. as far as publishing the diary, the family didn't want to publish it.
i'm conflicted on this. i'm keen to see the story move forward until we get the answers. i know what the people that published it were thinking. i admired all the work they're doing. part of me says we should respect the family's wishes. >> you know what? a lot of the stuff in the diary, there is so much about security and the threats and his concern for his own well-being. some of it is personal as well. i can understand the family being concerned about that. but let me just jump apparently there is a book deal that has been entered into by four of the survivors from benghazi. it's interesting that we haven't heard from any of them. now what we're hearing is there a book deal. what do you know about there? >> yeah. i guess unfortunately that shouldn't be too much of a shock. it sounds as if four individuals and it is members of the security team which means they may have been members of the global response staff that was there to help provide in part security for all the folks doing their jobs there like ty and
glen, two individuals, former navy seals who were contracted out. so, you know, they appear to have gotten a package deal these four, upwards of $3 million to produce this book. and, i mean, obviously it's going to be fascinating to see. they have obligations they have to keep. any time you're in a job like that. so it's going to be interesting to see how far they can go and what they can actually say. >> all right. mike, thanks for being with us tonight. >> sure. >> now tonight's poll. should taxpayer money be used to promote obama care? thousands of people voted on this one, folks. and six people total thought it was a good idea. six. robert tweets, yes despite the republican idea to oppose anything he does regardless of the fact that it helps american people. it is the law and should be promoted. hey robert, it's also the law that you shouldn't kill someone. do we have to spend half a billion dollars to tell people not to do it? but most people felt like kimberly.
hell no! why throw good money after bad? nancy says if this law were as great as obama said it is, we shouldn't have to spend money to promote it. billy adds, no, and if i see any commercials promoting it by the nfl, i will never watch another game. by the way, nfl said no. billy, your football season is safe. the nfl said no way to the plan. thanks for joining us tonight. but before we go, please be sure to check out my new novel, "clever fox," the sequel to "sly fox." prosecutor danny fox has her handsful with murder cased and her love life torn between two men and what she doesn't know about them can be dangerous. caught in the middle of office politics and the biggest secret in law enforcement, the turf war between the feds and the locals. remember to friend me on facebook and follow me on twitter at judge jeanine. we won't be here next week.
here is my friend, the governor. tonight on huckabee, edward snowden is charged with espionage and called a traitor and now the russians are playing hard ball it is not that big of a deal. >> i am not scrambling jets to get a 29-year-old hacker. >> why is the rest of the world defying the leader of the free world? >> our enemies have no respect for us. >> and the senate passes immigration reform. >> is offy, i border agents and technology backing them up and the 700 mile fence completed. ice agents are not satisfied and their union leaders