tv Greta Van Susteren FOX News July 10, 2013 10:00pm-11:01pm PDT
greta is next to go on the record. tonight -- >> i object to the court inquiring to mr. zimmerman on his decision on whether or not to testify -- >> your objection is overruled. >> is judge nelson out of order? we'll show you much more of that exchange. but first george zimmerman exercises his right to remain silent. >> i need to know is it your decision to not testify in this case? >> yes, your honor. >> is this clearly the decision you yourself have made? >> yes, sir. >> thank you very much. >> as a use of force expert, i have to look at it from as many perspectives as possible. because everybody's perspective is different. mr. martin was physically active and capable person. mr. zimmerman is a person who is
by no stretch of the imagination an athlete. i believe it's my opinion that physical abilities, he would find himself lacking when compared to mr. martin. >> if this person, this mannequin, were carrying a firearm on their waist, where would the gun be right now in relation to me? >> would be at your left inner thigh. >> were you aware the defendant described to his best friend, when the defendant slid down that trayvon martin was up around his armpits? were you aware of that? >> no. i have not heard that. >> where would the gun be now? >> now the gun would be behind your left leg. >> the injuries on mr. zimmerman's back of his head consistent with someone doing this on cement? >> i don't think so. >> how about this. how about if somebody resisted the attempt? the two lacerations, could that come from cement, someone
resisting me pushing down? >> i believe so. >> defense would call robert zimmerman senior, your honor. >> you ask me did i recognize the voice. >> what did you tell him? >> absolutely. it's my son george. >> the latest from the courtroom we go live to fox orlando reporter holly bristol. the latest is what? >> the defense rested their case today. they called three witnesses to the stand. the first was a man by the name of dennis root. he used to be a police officer down in south florida. he's now a public safety expert, a self-defense expert. you name it, this man claimed to be an expert to use every single hat this man had in front of the jury. first of all, one of the things, they used this man to essentially coach the jury into what to do if they have evidence not the same from person to person. if somebody testifies differently about what happened
that night than the next person, they told him tow to put that together, use that in to the best of their ability. he also told the jury that he tells people when they get in fights, if you haven't won the fight within the first 30 seconds, you should switch tactics and he believed george zimmerman's force he used that night was called for and he was justified in doing what he did. he also told the jury that the evidence and george zimmerman's injuries match what the evidence that was presented in court. so he was just the first one. robert zimmerman sr. was the next one to take the stand. that was george zimmerman's dad. the first time he called the 911 call with the screams, by himself in the room. the attorney's office played it for him. without a doubt it was his son screaming. and the last witness the defense called today was a woman by the name of olivia bertalan. they were telling her story
throughout this trial that she was home alone with her infant child when some young men tried to break into her house, did break into her house. she called 911, was hiding in her infant's room with a rusty pair of scissors in one hand and a baby in the other. she says that night george zimmerman came to her house, introduced himself as the neighborhood watch captain, offered his help and even brought her a new lock for the back door that those guys are broken into, greta. >> the prosecution, has it finished his rebuttal case. are we to the jury discussion tomorrow and the closing arguments tomorrow afternoon? >> that's exactly what's going to happen. the attorneys are going to go in and hash out the jury instruction tomorrow morning. then at 1:00 they'll bring the jury back and state prosecutors are going to lay out their closing arguments, greta. >> thank you very much. now to the testy exchange between the judge and defense lawyer don west. now, it all started when the
judge asked zimmerman directly if he wanted to testify. >> mr. zimmerman, like i said before, you're aware that during this trial you have the absolute right to remain silent. you do not have to say anything, do anything, or prove anything. is that correct? >> yes, your honor. >> and you have the right to testify if you want to. do you understand that? >> yes, your honor. >> and i've given you an opportunity to discuss with your attorneys whether or not you want to testify in this case and you have indicated that you have have those discussions? >> yes. >> have you made a decision, sir, as to whether or not you want -- >> i object to that question. >> okay. overruled. have you made a decision as to whether or not you want to testify in the case? >> i object to that question. >> overruled. the court is entitled to inquire mr. zimmerman's determination as to whether or not he wants to testify. mr. zimmerman, have you made a decision as to whether or not you want to testify in this case? >> not at this time. >> okay. and when is it -- how long do you think you need before you make that decision? >> may we have an opportunity to
speak? the case isn't concluded yet. >> i understand that. and i've asked mr. zimmerman if he needed more time to talk to his attorneys. and if he does, i will afford it to him. mr. zimmerman, how much more time do you think you're going to need to discuss this with your attorneys? >> i assume it would depend on how long the recesses are, your honor. the end of the day. >> okay. well, if your attorneys have finished with two witnesses before the end of the day, do you think that you would then know whether or not you want to testify? >> on mr. zimmerman's behalf -- >> i am asking your client questions. please, mr. west. >> i object o to the court inquiring mr. zimmerman as to his decision about whether or not to testify -- >> your objection is overruled. mr. zimmerman, i will give you more time, sir, to discuss this with your attorneys. thank you very much. >> joining is our legal panel
diana tennis and bernie grib and ted williams. i'll tell you off the top, that judge was way out of line. the defense had not rested. had not nearly rested. what in the world was he badgering him for? way out of line. do you agree with me or disagree? she should have waited. >> i totally agree. and what you don't or may not realize is that was not the first time she inquired of george zimmerman regarding whether or not he was going to testify. this was the second time. and they still had two witnesses to go. she was on a tear to get this thing done. she didn't want to take another break later. she wanted to cover the colloquy then. and he may have said we don't think so -- >> dst not about appeasing a judge. she had no particular business asking that question then. no business. she waits until the end, but doing that in the middle of the defense case is way out of line.
bernie? >> i love mr. west's tenacity. greta, i've seen you do it in court. me too. you need to stand up at those points. let's say zimmerman sads you know what? i want to get up there. does he have to go back and say he can't change his mind? the evidence has to be in. the police report every bit of evidence before that exchange happens and dialogue happens with a defendant. >> this is the most important decision for any accused as whether to exercise a right to stay silent or go on the witness stand. the judge has no business trying to brow beat a defendant to answering that question. she can ask at the end of the defense case. ted? >> well, yeah. she could. but -- >> and she should. at the end of the defense case, make sure there's a waiver. but not then. >> well, i don't disagree with that. but i think that also mr. west was somewhat wrong. i think he had a right to put an objection on the record. but once he put that objection
on the record and the judge wanted to continue on -- >> you know what, ted? you're dead wrong. a defense lawyer should be fighting for his client. it's the judge -- it's the defense lawyer's obligation to fight for that client. >> but you got -- but greta, he fought for him but also got to be respectful to the court. once the court said i'm going to do it and you put your objection on the record, then it stands on the record. >> you know what? when the judge is wrong -- this judge was wrong. it would be wrong for the defense lawyer just to sit there. jim you're on the other side of the aisle on this watching this discussion, but your thoughts? >> two things. first of all you accused the judge of being wishy washy last night. you're wrong. she's not. >> may have been wishy washy on something else but not stepping on the defendant's right here. >> she did whatever she wanted to do. having said that, all i can tell you in that moment, the prosecutor which is what i've done most of my career, after a tough trial you say it's nice to see the judge fight it out with the defense attorney a bit. the defense attorney was right.
if you don't have thick skin, don't be a trial lawyer. but her questions were essentially right. >> jim, you fight for a client -- i've been in a courtroom fighting for clients i've had the marshal sit that lawyer down. then they march to you. it's not to be polite to the judge. >> if you don't have thick skin, don't be a trial lawyer. you have to stand up for unpopular people sometimes. >> here's another exchange the judge had with the defense. it was late last night. and i suspect the judge isn't wild about one of the defense lawyers which is a collateral issue. but nonetheless, here it is. >> is there anything else we needed to take up tonight? >> now that we move to friday, does it not make sense to clear things friday morning then this way we get all the closings in one day? >> the reason i told you what schedule i wanted is because it made sense to me. i'm not getting into this. court is in recess.
i will give my rule in the morning. i'll see you at 8:00. court is in recess. >> it's 10:00. >> it is 9:56. >> not be able to prepare or get my witnesses gathered for tomorrow. and i can't do it tonight. >> i'll see you at 8:00 in the morning. >> not physically able to keep up this pace much longer. it's 10:00 at night. we started this morning. we've had full days every day. weekends, depositions at night. >> you know, diane, i think it was outrageous. this woman that's a judge, was she ever a trial lawyer? when trial lawyers leave the courtroom, they go back and do research for the next day. she may go home, but that's not what the lawyer and prosecutor does either. >> you know, it's troubling. i don't know what to say. i like judge nelson very much. she's a well respected judge. she was a trial lawyer. i think expecting lawyers to keep up that kind of pace really runs a foul of the sixth
amendment and due process in a big murder case. you just can't put the jurors' comfort ahead of due process. you can't do it. those lawyers are being run ragged. and she -- to act like sitting on the bench and listening and absorbing and taking notes is anything like being in the fray of trying the case, it's apples and oranges. you notice she did switch the 8:00 start this morning to a 9:00 start. and everybody showed up on time and they're pushing through. now all of a sudden, she puts the brakes on and we're doing very little really tomorrow and the next day. and you notice that the defense is wanting to speed it up again because they want their closing on the same day at the state's. but she's in control of her calendar and clock. that's for sure. >> is there a difference between being in control and stepping on the rights. i would be worried if a defense lawyer says i can't adequately prepare. that's ineffective assistance
that could end up in the court of appeals. let me go to -- today they had a dummy in court. >> i wasn't there, greta. >> one of the lawyers? >> let's watch this. >> you consider a piece of concrete a weapon if i hit you on the head with it? >> if you hit me in the head with concrete, yes. >> how about if i took your head and smashed it on the concrete? may i use your doll for a moment? i want to follow up on some of mr. guy's questions. so george zimmerman, trayvon martin. were the injuries on mr. zimmerman's back of his head consistent with someone doing this on cement? >> i don't think so. >> how about this? how about somebody resisting the attempt? the injuries -- the two lacerations, could that have come from cement if somebody was resisting me pushing down like
this? >> i believe so. i believe it was a culmination of downward force whether it was from pushing or striking, and i know clearly by the injuries to his face and that would drive him back, his head striking hard into the concrete. >> you know, it's almost like when i saw that i thought why did the prosecutor use that prop? wasn't that a prosecutor's prop? handed something to the defense? whose side is he on? >> tetd was next to me last night during the show but i guess the dummy was in florida. >> get him, ted. >> anybody who tries cases, if you're in court and do a demonstration, you better do it and see how it plays out and you better anticipate that the other side is going to use it too. for me, the dummy, you know, people are very visual. i'm sure the jury was interested in that. but i go to michael last night. if the head's being slammed into cement like that, the injuries are going to be much, much more than that. >> but the instruction that the jury is going to get, you don't
have to have any injury to have a reasonable fear that your life was in danger. if i were the defense lawyer, i'd say juror number 3, when you go back to the jury room, that's the instruction. remind your jurors. he doesn't have to have any injury. >> i wouldn't be in reasonable fear if i had a gun and a 17-year-old was in front of me. >> i think it's important, you'll see later. we'll show you what it's like back there. how dark it is. panel, stay with us. we'll have much more to talk about. right now, tonight's first hot button issue on greta wire.com. was the judge out of line speaking with george zimmerman when she did? yes or no? go to gretawire.com and vote in our poll. and straight ahead, self-defense, murder, or something else? the panel will tell you coming up. also, here it comes. something that will make you spit nails. senator rand paul is here to tell you what it is. that's coming up. and elizabeth hasselbeck's good-bye to the women of "the
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self-defense is self-defense to everything. self-defense to murder, self-defense to manslaughter, self-defense to battery. what happened out there was not a crime. so in that context, there shouldn't be a second degree murder charge or any lessers. in addition, i don't believe factually a manslaughter charge will be presented. what george did was an intentional act in he knew he was pulling the trigger. the reason why he did it was self-defense and that doesn't suggest a manslaughter charge would be appropriate. >> george zimmerman's lawyer mark o'mara speaking to reporters after court tonight. let's see what our legal panelists have to say. he also said at that press
conference that his client really wanted to testify. i don't buy it. i think it's baloney. i think that was for the benefit of the media. there's no way in the world this lawyer wanted his client to testify or that zimmerman himself did. what do you think? >> i have to agree with you. zimmerman would have to be stuck on stupid to even get anywhere near the stand. the fact about it is he has testified at least on four different occasions. and you're going to hear in closing arguments, ladies and gentlemen, he testified, he gave testimony to the police when he didn't even have a lawyer. hadn't lawyered up. and that's going to be very significant. >> jim, good fortune for the prosecution that there is likely to be an obstruction on the lesser offense of manslaughter. it carries up to 30 years, i think, in florida. that's a big victory for the prosecution, is it not? >> it's huge. i think it's everything in this case. i think the prosecutor overshot
in his opening statement arguing it was a second degree murder case. as a career prosecutor, i don't think that case is here and i never argued it is. but i do think it falls in the realm of manslaughter. i think the question now for the prosecutor is going to be starting with this charge, does had stick so hard to murder? or does he lead them essentially into a manslaughter? that would be a huge win for the prosecution if he could get that conviction. >> diana, big win for the defense today. is if the judge ruled they couldn't use the animated video as evidence. but that the defense could use it to illustrate points in closing arguments. the jury's never going to get the difference between evidence and an illustration. so one of the last things the jury is going to see is a video that the defense absolutely loves, they created themselves. huge for the defense. do you agree? >> oh, i totally agree. although i think it was a bigger thing in my mind before witness todd testified today and we got
the actual life in realtime demonstration with the doll. because the defense did not know that the state was going to do that. they did not know about the doll. you could tell they were like oh, my god, i can't believe john guy is mounting a doll in the middle of the courtroom. then quickly mark o'mara decided if he can mount the doll, i can mount the doll. and that to me was almost better than the animation. and i thought the entire testimony today was really walking the jury through every step of the thought process of george zimmerman and self-defense. but, yes. i think the animation -- people love looking at pretty pictures in the movie and it looks scientific. i think they're going to enjoy it and the defense is happy to play it for them. >> on the flip side, bernie, the closing argument tomorrow filed by the defense closing argument then overnight there is a rest. then the prosecution gets the last word. defense wanted it all in one day. that's a big tactical advantage to the prosecution. >> always.
always. in fact, you know, diana had mentioned it earlier. you're getting whip sawed. which is the government doesn't really give -- or the state doesn't really give a full closing argument. they just say, you know what? the defendant's guilty. then you give your closing argument. then they have the entire night to slam you is really what their full closing argument is. it's unfair. it's unfair to the defense in this case. but o'mara, he's a very powerful lawyer. >> i would say i'm fair expect for one thing. as a defense lawyer i always said it was unfair. but the prosecution does have a huge burden of proof. >> all the burden. >> so jim may not think it's unfair -- you got to -- it's a huge burden. >> with the way this case has gone down, i think everybody should think the prosecution will get the last chance to resurrect their case. at the end of the day, you're right. you and i have gone back on the self-defense thing. at the end of the day, the d.a. has all of the burden. and if it's confused at the end of the day after all those, i
don't know if it was self-defense or not, the d.a. loses. the defense should use that night well. it's their last night to put it together and give a convincing case this guy's guilty. >> the last thing the is going to show is the animated video which completely eviscerates the prosecution's theory. panel, stay with us. next up, you're going to the scene of the trayvon martin shooting. because we want you to see the scene for yourself. also trey garty is here. there is irs news tonight. and they will not like this news. geoff: i'm the kind of guy who doesn't like being sold to. the last thing i want is to feel like someone is giving me a sales pitch, especially when it comes to my investments. you want a broker you can trust. a lot of guys at the other firms seemed more focused on selling than their clients. that's why i stopped working at my old brokerage and became a financial consultant with charles schwab. avo: what kind of financial consultant are you looking for?
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not unlike any other 7-eleven. but this is where trayvon martin dressed in that hoodie, you've seen the photograph of the hoodie with the gun shot wound in it, the crime evidence photo. but he went into the 7-eleven and at approximately 6:24 made the purchase of iced tea and also skittles. he came out after the purchase and went approximately a quarter of a mile down this direction to the area where he eventually ran into george zimmerman. but this is where it all began. and what's important to note, at the time this purchase was made 6:24, it was dark outside. and it was a very rainy night here in sanford, florida. eyewitness testimony in a case like this one is critical. the deceased can't tell you what happened. and george zimmerman gave a reenaction of what happened. we can sort of fact check to see
whether or not anyone in these apartments might have been able to see a little bit more or less. you can see as we walk there is not a lot of light back here other than the occasional apartment casting some light out. when the lights aren't on here, i can tell you that i can't identify someone five feet in front of me. it's that dark back here. at least now. and i assume that the lighting conditions back here are very much similar to what they were at night on february 26th. this is the area right here to my right which is where the deceased was found. and where george zimmerman said he was lying and where he hit his hid -- his head was pounded against the cement about here. here to orient you, this is the tea area right here. and according to the records -- according to george, george was down to my left. he had made his phone call to the police. and he intended to go this
direction and go towards the clubhouse which was down there. and between the last second that george zimmerman's phone records show, between the last time he hung up with the police and the time it was made again was 1:20. so something happened about here. it's going to be the jury's job to decide who was the aggressor, whether george was defending himself or not, and of course that's the task given to the jury. the defense has to prove absolutely nothing. >> back to our legal panel. ted, obviously we had the advantage in that video with the light from our cameras. it's not an exact -- >> front of you.
but as i talk about this and as we were out there that night, i had to put myself in the place of this innocent kid that had just gone to the store to get some skittles. now he's walking through this very dark area and all heck see is a silhouette of a truck or someone following him. and that -- had to put that kid in very great fear of bodily harm himself. >> but the question is, since the prosecution said to prove this beyond a reasonable doubt. are you saying that trayvon martin had that fear. are you also saying george zimmerman had that fear? that's really the question. i don't think anyone's poor trayvon martin and his family, but the question is did george zimmerman have a reasonable fear of his life in danger? >> well, i think it also borders on -- >> yes or no? what do you think? >> well, it may very well have been. but it also borders on who was the aggressor. and i would have to think in that dark, as dark as it was
back there, greta i couldn't hardly see you. i couldn't see the camera man. it was terrible back there. >> that's why, diana, when george zimmerman goes from trying to get an address heading back to his car, when they had that initial confrontation at the t, who took the first punch who attacked who would be the most critical question for the jury. >> i agree with you. keep in mind, the whole he should have said in the car and should have listened to the 911 and shouldn't have been following and shouldn't have been armed following. none of that's illegal. and keep in mind tomorrow morning we're going to talk about what provocation is. provocation is a threat of violence. it's not armed following. and so there really is no evidence whatsoever of anybody taking any punch on anybody other than trayvon martin on george zimmerman. there is no ed to refute that. there can be a tree and maybe they were standing and maybe they were this way and that way and other approach by the
prosecutor. but there's no evidence -- >> wait a minute. they still have to look at the totality of circumstances back there, diana. they have to look at the totality of circumstances. and we want to know what was in george zimmerman's mind, but we also want to know what was trayvon martin who's dead and cannot talk to us about what was in his mind. >> that's not the totality. what was in trayvon martin's mind will have nothing to do with the jury instruction, nothing whatsoever whatsoever. nothing. >> you know, bernie, it depends on at what point is the real point of aggression? is it following him? the retreat? then does trayvon throw the first punch? those are all complicated. >> greta, you know, the instruction to the jury will be it's not what's reasonable in your mind here in the courtroom in a setting where we can take as much time as we want to recreate this. it's what is in zimmerman's mind at that very moment. was he in fear of -- and it's
not fear and our watchers are keen to this. not fear of getting hurt, it's fear of serious bodily injury or death. it's not a second degree murder case. the jury will struggle with the manslaughter. the state had a tough case, but not second degree murder. >> i'm going to take the last word. i wish the judge had taken the jury out there. i think that the conditions out there are so important so you can understand, which is why we went out there. it gives you a better understanding. anyway, panel, thank you. tomorrow night closing arguments, so i'll see you then. coming up, new trouble for the irs. we'll tell you what it is and then you tell us whether you feel sorry for the irs or not. in two minutes, during the presidential campaign, democrats laughing at speaker newt gingrich for promising to build a moon colony. but now is speaker gingrich suddenly seeking democratic support and will they laugh at the democrats or only at speaker
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remember when speaker newt gingrich proposed a moon colony democrats in the media all laughs. that was last year during the presidential campaign. >> by the end of my second term. we will have the first permanent base on the moon. and it will be american. >> and now get this. two democratic congress women introducing a bill to have a national park on the moon. when newt gingrich talked about the moon, media called him a lunar. go to gretawire.com and vote on this one. we're back in two minutes. this day calls you.
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republicans on the war path. their target? the irs. they want the irs to pay for targeting conservative groups, literally. today a house committee approving a gop plan to slash the irs budget by 24% by fiscal 2014. senator gowdy joins us. how are you? >> i'm fine. how are you? >> i'm well. 24%. that's a hefty chunk. is that a good idea and if so why? >> i think it's a good start. when you are given resources and you do not use them appropriately, you should lose them. and 24% is a good place to start. you can add to that, prohibition on what is being spent on conferences, videos, bonuses. and we're also going to make sure they have no role in the implementation of the so-called affordable care act. i hope that our colleagues
across the hall agree with us when the bill goes to the senate. >> what are the odds that 24% of the irs budget is really going to be slash snd. >> 100% if your viewers will make sure our colleagues on the other side of the capitol know how disappointed they are not from a partisan standpoint but from an american standpoint that an agency that is funded by taxpayers would target taxpayers based on political ideology, factor in bonuses despite the fact many americans are losing jobs and homes and retirement. factor into that this ridiculous star trek video, the fkt they need their own legal defense fund for the different irs employees who want to invoke their fifth amendment privilege. which is that people are fed up with the irs. then we have 100% chance of getting this done. >> 20% is a quarter. as many people don't like the irs, cutting a quarter of their
budget. the irs still has to function. i mean, what is sort of -- is there 24% of fat and waste at the irs? do you feel confident that's, you know, a good, fair cut that's not going to jeopardize their mission? >> well, i think what it's going to start and there are other bills, greta, that will be coming shortly which is a discussion in this country about an alternative way to collect revenue without the irs. and we're not going to get into whether that ought to be a flat tax or fair tax. but some other mechanism. because i cannot stress to you how little trust the people i work for have in this entity. so a fourth is a big cut, but i got to be honest with you. they've earned every penny of that 24% cost. >> bonus is $70 million in bonuses. and today sent a memo to irs employees that says they deserve the bonuses but because of budgetary constraints he's going to try they don't get it.
once he said you deserve the bonuses isn't it by law that the $70 million has to be paid? >> i think the collective bargaining agreement allows him an out if there are difficult fiscal times or difficult budget times. so why in the world he would put in print, we think you're doing a great job when no one else in the western hemisphere thinks that he is, whatever rational he wants to use as long as he doesn't pay the bonuses, i can care less what he says. >> congressman, thank you. >> yes, ma'am. straight ahead, this is going to set your hair on fire. i'm going to wait to let rand paul tell you about it. he's here next.
well, this will or should make you sick to your stomach. there's news tonight the u.s. military is spending $34 million on new headquarters in afghanistan. what's the problem with that? well, we're not going to use it. u.s. forces are withdrawing from afghanistan. this $34 million, 64,000 square foot headquarters will have never been used. senator rand paul joins us. good evening, sir. >> hey, greta. >> how does this happen, senator? >> you know, i'd like to say it surprises me. but you know we also spent $80 million on a consulate in al
sharef, a city in the northern part of afghanistan in a consulate that will never be used also because it's in area that could be shot from surrounding buildings. so we do a lot of things -- do you know that the state department also spent $650,000 on facebook ads to try to get more people to like them? so this is throughout government and it infuriates people. >> it should infuriate people. i asked to pull up records to my staff. we have 833,130 pending va compensation claims. we've got soldiers who have served us overseas and we can't bother to process their compensation claims, but we can waste $80 million on a consulate we turned out not to use. $45 million on a facility to fix armored vehicles that we're not going to use. $34 million on the 64,000 square foot. i mean, it goes on and on. doesn't anybody give a damn? >> and the thing is i asked hillary clinton repeatedly why would you not provide security
for the ambassador in benghazi? why didn't you protect our ambassador. she's like, the republicans didn't give me any money. why did she spend $650,000 on facebook ads or $100,000 she spent sending three comedians to india on a tour? our government is riddled with waste from top to bottom. one in the sequester is there's a lot of fluff that can be cut out before we actually have to get to things that are important like paying our soldiers, providing for our wounded soldiers. all of that needs to be done and if you cut out all the extra stuff we're doing. we'd have plenty of money to take care of our soldiers. >> this should actually outrage the american people. and i think it's not just -- who's the state or defense department employee who did the final authorization on these things? somebody must have some sense. there's got to be someone who doesn't think it's okay to do this kind of stuff. >> we spent $1.8 million on
developing roll-up beef jerky and that came out of the pentagon's budget. we spent $5 million studying the golden fish to study the collective action of fish out of the military budget. don't get me started on homeland security grants. we got -- i have to do this. 13 sno cone machines at the cost of $11,000 was part of homeland security. >> let's switch to another topic. that's egypt. president obama in 2009 went to egypt to speak to the people, the muslim world, to sort of bridge the problem between the two worlds. that didn't work out too well. now there's a situation going on in egypt. is it a military coup or not? that's a very specific question for a very specific reason. >> well, you know, even to debate where it's a military coup is sort of a ridiculous debate. without question it's a military coup, but the legislation goes
one step farther. it says the military was instrumental in getting rid of a democraticallily elected government. so in this case no matter who they put in, the military did depose morsi. i wasn't for giving morsi any tax or arms, but i'm not even any more of a fan of the military. so the law says explicitly the president can't give them any more money. but that's the thing about this president. he thinks he's above the law. and this should really trouble americans. because you have an irs that's attacking on going after americans because of their religious or political beliefs. and now you have a president saying well i'm not going to obey the law even though congress told me i can't give money to egypt, i'm doing it anyway because i'm the president and above the law. that's a problem. >> i don't know how anybody could call this anything than a military coup.
at some point we have to sort of sit down and be sensible. maybe we should change our law and do something. but a callous disregard is not a good signal. >> the thing is, i'm not a fan of foreign aid, period. but if you're going to give foreign aid, shouldn't you make it conditional upon behavior? for example, iraq's getting a lot of our money, but they've been letting iran fly over their country. so the thing is shouldn't we say to iraq, we're not giving you money. you're supposedly our ally. if you're going to let iran in your air space, even john kerry appeared to support that in a committee. i'm the same way with egypt. they just recently indicted 16 americans and would put them in prison if they could get their hands on them. and this is the country we're continuing to give money? i think foreign aid at the least ought to be contingent on behavior. >> at least contingent on following the bare minimum of the laws we set we've agreed upon. senator, thank you, sir. >> thank you, greta.
now to tonight's hot button issue. is the ousting of morsi a military coup or not? go to gretawire.com and vote in our poll. and get out the tissues. elizabeth hasselbeck says good-bye to the women of "the view." you'll see it. huh...fifteen minutes could save you fifteen percent or more on car insurance. mmmhmmm...everybody knows that. well, did you know that old macdonald was a really bad speller? your word is...cow. cow. cow. c...o...w... ...e...i...e...i...o. [buzzer] dangnabbit. geico. fifteen minutes could save you...well, you know.
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chair. the past ten years have been nothing short of extraordinary. and i hope the next cohost that sits here an extraordinary fit of years to come of their own. >> you always brought a fresh voice to the show. you stood by your opinions even when things were very heated. that's not an easy thing to do. and you've been such a big part of this show's success. >> i have to say i have appreciated your presence here a lot. i think that when we got into it, it was exciting. it was exciting for the show, i think. and of course we probably have enemies because of it, but so what? >> that's okay. >> i just think you're the cat's meow. you've been a really good friend to me, and i appreciate you. and, you know, may we both continue to grow. because that's life, right? that's what life is. >> and we're so lucky. welcome to fox news channel, elisabeth.
thanks for being with us. we'll see you storm night. big changes coming to gretawire tomorrow. good night from new york. ney-wi. you figure the rest out. see you tonight. hello everyone. i was reading something. it's 5:00 in the new york city and this is the five. >> well, two years ago tomorrow "the five" launched over 500 plus shows and we've only had a hand full of guests, barbara bush, sarah palin, donald trump, it's my pleasure to welcome the king of talk radio, it's limbaugh. welcome. before we get into the important news of the day, they spun a headline to make it look like you had an issue with fox news.