>> i believe it is compromise and manslaughter conviction. >> you guys thank you for being here. that's how fox reports. i am harris falker, huckabee is live tonight and our continuing coverage of the george zimmerman watch. >> this is a special edition of huckabee. we are live in the fox news channel and new york. and you are watching and you know there are major developments in florida in the trial of george zimmerman. we'll keep you up-to-date and throughout the hour, not only discuss what is going on, and if anything brakes you will hear it first on the fox news channel. we'll go to phil keating who is covering the trial and outside oq courthouse right now. phil, bring us up-to-date where we are this minute? >> head loin right now. jury of six women are considering, convicting george
zimmerman of manslaughter: that was the question posed to the judge after not a peep all day long, the second day of jury deliberations that have now surpassed the 13 hour mark. george zimmerman charged with second-degree murder and the jury is allowed to consider manslaughter and of course, a sweeping not guilty if they feel his self defense claim trumps any of the other evident gaeps him by prosecutors. they have a question at 6 o'clock and they come out and everybody is rushed in there and then the judge read what the question was. >> we have a jury question. the question reads as follows: may we have clarification on the instructions regarding manslaughter. propose a response. this this is the 20 page jury
instructions that each got. and on the page of manslaughter. i will read this line. george zimmerman intentionally committed an act or acts that caused the death of trayvon martin. that could be the perplexing issue for the six women and they are having a disagreement. they are trying to fit the facts and evident and testimony here to see if the charge of manslaughter actually applies. the state of george zimmerman's face and father and wife and mom as they a systembled in the courtroom was one of somber and very serious looking. second-degree murder 25 years to life, the lesser charge of manslaughter is a very serious conviction if that is what the jury opts to do. with the gun being involved, that means george zimmerman if he is convicted of manslaughter could serve 15- 20 years in a florida state prison rather.
but, after 13 hours of deliberating, it is clear to the defense team that the self- defense claim was not a homerun. they hoped for a fast verdict by the jury and didn't want manslaughter on the table. that was a big victory for the prosecution, judge deborah nelson allowing the manslaughter option and it appears that the jury is considering manslaughter at this hour and they would be also considering an acquittal or finding george zimmerman not guilty. they are wrapping up the dinner break, the jurors are and intending to continue deliberating and how late tonight we don't know. they are not going back to the secret hotel where they are sequestered. they broke at 6 o'clock p.m. and tonight pushing forward and the option is theirs on sunday and a lot of people go to church on the jury panel.
they may or may not deliberate a full or half day tomorrow. >> you can now go get your dinner and find air conditioning. i know it is hot where you are standing. >> thank you. >> as we are waiting for the verdict which could come at and time. we have no idea whether it would come tonight or not. remember this case and the time line from the very beginning. breaking nows not to, one man dad and another in a jail cell after a shooting in sanford. >> he was on top of me like this and i shot him and i dnth think i hit him. >> i our son was murdered and we miss him and it is the same he's not getting justice. >> you cannot defend yourself over a pack of iced tea. (chanting) >> if i had a son he would look
like trayvon. snshg george zimmerman walking in the courtroom and opening statements of the second-degree murder trial. nknock, knock, who's there. george zimmerman. george zimmerman who? you don't think culling someone a kroepy s cracker is offensive? >> no. can we move on to orth topic? >> that screaming or yelling, do you recognize that? >> yes. >> who do you recognize that to be. trayvon benjamin martin. >> my son, george. >> he was a overweight large man when he came to us and very pleasant and nice man and physically soft. >> and how about this? >> when the case couldn't get more bizarre, the state is seeking third-degree murder based on child abuse? >> i just don't think that the evidence supports that. and if i am not sure about that,
i am not going to charge the jury on it. >> that night he decided to be what he wanted to be. the police officer. >> the preassumption with a lack of evidence. >> if you have to presoum something, you don't know it. >> and if you don't know it, it hasn't been proven. >> well in addition to being a fox nows anchor, greg jarret has been in the courtroom as a defense attorney for many years. greg jarret, i want to commend you. your reporting on this is insightful as i have seen on and network including ours. because of your background as an attorney. and make sense of what is happening tonight. the jury asked for information on the manslaughter charge and what is it that is difficult for them to understand? >> there is a little vagueness and ambiguity associated with the one line on manslaughter that said george zimmerman
intentionally committed an act or acts that caused the death of trayvon martin. you will find that jurors debate this. one will say wait a minute, that moans an intentional act that caused the death and the other said no, he intended to kill and there is a difference between the two. there is testimony that zimmerman was shocked to learn that martin had died. some jurors may be hung up on that. >> it is not manslaughter ifly didn't intend to kill. >> thenition intent to commit an act that resulted in death. >> they can say he intended to pull the trigger and resulted in death. but they can acquit if they self defense. it is all about reasonableness in self defense. did he believe it was necessary to pull the trigger to save his
life or prevent himself with injure. >> would you be worried now that the case has gone on yesterday and today and they asked questions or would you say that is part of the process. >> generally the longer it goes better for the defense and they are unclear about something. it is too early to tell. i would be relieved if i was the defense attorney, it seems like they got past murder and now on to the lesser charge of manslaughter. i have seen jurors say, we can't figure it out. set it aside for a sxhoement we'll come back and talk about something else and lesser included of manslaughter and in the end find murder. >> you have watched the trial throughout. any surprises that were done or omitted by the prosecutor or the defense that when it happen, you said oh, wow. >> you saw it in the time line of events there in the opening statement, don west, the defense
attorney made a knock, knock joke. this is a murder case. a young man died. you don't know the jurors. i am not saying it was bad as chris asking o.j. simpson to put on the bloody glove. he seemed to recover. but there is bad chemistry between he and the judge. i doubt they go to dinner together. >> yes, no love lost there. fortunately a lot of that happen outside of the presence of the jury. never as a defense attorney i never wanted to alienate the judge. jurors pick up on it and subtle and psychological and can influence them to the detriment of the defendant. >> did the prosecutions make a solid case against george zimmerman from a legal stand point. did they lay out the facts of the law in a way that should bring about a guilty verdict?
>> i put it 50- 50. i know a lot of people said the prosecutions didn't bear their burden. i don't know about. that this is a close call, because you know, it all came down to the closing arguments and the prosecutors did well. especially john guy with an emotional argument rebuttal and the jurors could focus on the self defense and say you know, it is unreasonable and it was not necessary to pull the trigger, the injuries were not that severe and the jury is asked to put themselves in the shoes of zimmerman the defendant. would i have pulled the trigger and all six might have said no, i wont have pulled the trigger, conviction. >> jarret you had a long day and week. but i commend you, your reporting is so helpful and i have appreciated what i learned and thanks for being here. >> my great pleasure.
>> (applause) respiratory >> coming up. fox news legal analyst and criminal defense attorney. stay with us, back in a moment. uh-oh! guess what day it is?? guess what day it is! huh...anybody? julie! hey...guess what day it is?? ah come on, i know you can hear me. mike mike mike mike mike... what day is it mike? ha ha ha ha ha ha! leslie, guess what today is?
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with everyone. that's why more customers recommend verizon, america's largest 4g lte network. >> you are looking at the outside of the courtroom in sanford, florida where we are awaiting a jury verdict. they have gone to dinner and when they come back they are expected to resume. it is a little unexpected that they have continueed to work through the evening and no indkagdz that they are going home soon. we may have a verdict tonight. we are live in new york. and joining me is les wheel and remmy spencer. the jury ask for clarification on the manslaughter charge. >> i tried many days and we all
lawyers like to think we know what the jury is thinking and this means they discounted murder or they may be going for an a kuwaital. unfortunately, we simply don't know. i think it is reasonable to assume that they moved past murder. there could be one person of the six that is stuck on the word. intentional in the manslaughter charge is misleading. and it is promising to so they are taking time to sift through this and understand the language. this is the way the system works. nyesterday's question was the inventory of the evidence that told me right away, they are taking it seriously and by the way, women are coming back to cope working. we women keep working and keep going. (applause) there is no shock to me.
but it does portend second-degree is probably off of the table. i have the jury instructions. they are to go for second-degree and if not second-degree then manslaughter and then was it self defense. that's what they are on to next. >> you brought up the women thing and so we are going there. >> yes. >> six women, jurorsment would that scare you. >> in all of the trials, i never had an all female jury and i am not sure it scares me. i don't think it is the best jury for a defense. getting six women to agree on anything in life is a difficult task. >> remmy said that for the record and i did not. >> i am not -- >> and remember it has to be unanimous. and these jurors don't know the
potential sentencing considerations. and they don't know if they acquit on murder two and find him guilty on manslaughter, he's still facing almost 30 years in state prison. >> but what is important to point out, it is not, it is the defense perspective. the defense agreed to these six women and i think here's why. from the defense perspective, they are looking at it sort of stro typical that women are more afraid of something like that happening in the night time and somuját coming on to them physically. and they will be more worried about their physical safety and self defense is reaching more in our guts and hearts and that's why they agreed. prosecution on the other hand wanted six women i think because five of them are mothers. and they can, the prosecutions is thinking they can identify
with being a mom of a 17 year old by who is now gone and dead. >> but wont they identify with the fact that george zimmerman has a mother and his mother testified. do you want to find guilty a young man in the mother's mind defended himself? is that another way to try. >> that is a reasonable way to spin it if you will. these are the people that the prosecutors and the defense attorneys agreed to. they had more challenges. they could have gone through more people to get the demographic of the community. they didn't. i agree, they chose this jury and they are going to use both angles, the victim's mother and the defendant's mother, and it is role life and the more defense attorneys did in the end of the trial, revealed more about mr. zimmerman's family, the more points they scored with the women.
but it was not until mr. guy summed up in his rebuttal that it hit home, that this case, is a toss up if you will. 50- 50. >> we have to take a break here. when we come back, what would you think if you were the jury foreman. are women more deliberative than men would be who want to go in and be done with it just like they do shopping? >> the hardware store and i want to get to that. what is the dynamic going on here. we'll be back with elois and remmy. back in a moment. [ male announcer ] some question physics. some question gravity. and some... even have the audacity to question improbability. with best-in-class towing and best-in-class torque these are some of the bold, new ram commercial trucks --
await the verdict in the george zimmerman murder trial. elist wheel you see her on fox regularly and roamy spencer who is a defense attorney joining me. we are talking about the female dynamic. it is unusual. a lot of people saying it is unusual. you admit it is unusual. do women tend to look at the responsibility different than women? i suggested that women might be more deliberative and take their time. the men would say the game is on in throw hours and let's hurry. >> we hope not. >> let's face. it men are charge in there and be done with it. >> i think it is thorough and the extra dynamic of only six women. if you had four women and two men, assuming your hypothesis is correct? >> it always is. >> of course it is. you are always right. >> thank you. >> but the men with that kind of
mentality first of all would try to be foisting themselves as foreperson and take control and the women might shy back a bit. but you have six women in well all equal. a woman foreperson and a woman judge, and the only men involved were the defendant and the lawyers. i think they will step back more and they are deliberative. >> i think she is right. i absolutely agree that women are more deliberative and more a town to the details if you will. the very first thing they asked for was a list of all of the evidence in this case. that was a specific request and they don't want to miss a thing. and i don't think that men and women differ in this respect. when these jurors were sworn in. they tock a oath. affirm or put their hand on the bible and said they would follow the letter of the law and the judge in this case would say you
take your preconceived notions of the law and personal bis and put it on the shelf and go through the case biassed on the evidence and nothing else. >> it seems like what they are doing. >> one instruction, this case must not be decided for or against anyone because you feel 0 or angry with anyone. fell 0 or trayvon martin orang row at george zimmerman. i haven't sewn that in too many jury instructions. i don't know if this is such a emotionally fraught case. >> i think that language is unique. but there are general instructions and states differ, state poi state instructions differ. but the gist is the same. you cannot make a decision in a criminal case based on emotion. it has to be based on the evidence. >> what happens in the jury room?
they go in for the first time and say one of us have to foreman. foreperson. >> foreperson. okay. sorry about that. >> if the society that you get in the box, if you are the first juroror to be societied you are the foreperson. in other states and jurisdictions it is done by a vote or somebody who assumes that responsibility. i think it is human nature when you put people together in a confined space regardless of the foreperson will be taking the lead and coral the trips if you will. i have no doubt that that is happening. that is part of what the verdict ultimately is. i have to believe that the jurorsine though they are sequestered. they have to know that everybody in america is attuned to what they are going to decide?
>> i think they can hear people outside. they are only on the second and therd floor deliberating. you have seen the protest. i think they can hear what is going o. they are in a hotel coming back and forth. they can so. no, they can't read the paper or watch television. they knew before they would go in. it seems like years. but only a couple of weeks and the media focused it on. but the media there has been over the top for over a year. they know how big the case is. >> it is a tremendous sacrifice for the jurors, they have been away from their homes and families and can't use cell phones and internet and cut off from the world and lives. >> no wonder they want to get finished. we'll take a break. thank you very much for being here and we'll see you little later this hour. all right. up next, what should president
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in sanford, florida jurors are deliberating after breaking for dinner and our coverage will continue of the george zimmerman trial for harris faulkner. a texas- sized she down over a borgdz. republicans passed a land mark bill and headed to governor perry's desk. >> and texas democrats say they will fight it. >> a key american partner in the middle east is bracing for more turmoil. the interi remember government in egypt launching a investigation on morsi who is gone from political power.
we give billion to egypt and law makers want to cut. that the white house said it is necessary to cope the egyptian military strong. live huckabee now. >> we are live. the jury just finished the meal and back in deliberations in sanford, florida. and we are keeping an eye on it. and if anything breaks we'll go immediately to sanford, florida and pick up on it. it is not every day, that the president of the united states comments on an unresolved criminal case. last march, weeks before george zimmerman was asked about the case. >> my main message is to the parents of trayvon martin. you know, if i had a son he
would look like trayvon. and they are right to expect that all of us as americans are going to take this with the seriousness it deserves. should president obama have involved himself in the story? since the president is from chicago it is only fair, we'll ask san at this tima jackson on the word network and syndicatedro she manical muler who stars in god, gun and automobiles on the history network. that ought to be a hot. >> it is far removed from the white house and federal government and a spectacular
trial or case that has not gone to trial when charges are yet to be filed and evident heard. and it really goes to how we are going to relate to one another civically. and he understood that in the out set. and his words that did allay a lot of fears in the african-american community. and he shed a lot of sympathy and empathy. and i didn't have problems with that and as a matter of fact i was glad to hear him say something because so many people have so many reactions all over america to this particular case. >> they do have. and i wonder if maybe he should have all of us can agree someone's life is taken and we
do and woo don't know the facts. at least couch it in disclaimer. and count your response and my guest might be different than san tina. but what do i know. >> you are a friend of mine and she is a sister for another mister. and we have so much in common. and you so, governor this is what it is all about. this is the lie and illusion that we are fed and it is good tv and wrestling and reality. this is what obama does. it doesn't matter if it is a white or black president. when i went to see david copper field. there is distraction and all slight of hand. it is no black and white in
america. it is the christian, it is the muslim and keep us fighting and don't look at the big table and what is going on. it is all -- i really believe it is all a grand pageant. the department of the justice and our tax dollars are paying people to protest. and that did not happen. what they are trying to do there. is manage expectations. and the fact is, people are vested in this case. and there is a lot of anxiety about where the anxieties will go. and where ever the verdict shows up. >> is that racial. it is beyond race. race is used as a fig leaf to cover man's inhumanity to man. we don't treat each other well.
there is so many murders going on they are often black on black. we don't hear the national concern and passion. >> it is most crimes in america are interracial and white on white and black on black. we'll need to elevate the conversation and see the international racial and gets us excited. we get excited about this case and it is white on black and black on white. but if someone kills a white it is what it is. diagram
and get upset when someone is injured. we have to go another way. >> i totally agree. it should not be about what color was the person who died or lived, two people were involved and both of their lives will be forever changed and it does seem that race has been played into this whether we want it to be. five tlo murders in my city last year. the city that tells me i can't have a gun to protect myself. 532, governor, and the at to youed and it is all liberal. and i don't care how you label people, the conservative. >> you do care. >> the republicans will run us off the cliff at 80 and democrats are doing at 90. we have one child killed and that is too many. and this at to youed. i am talking about the top
politicianment raum emmanuel and obama supporters that happens in that neighborhood. you don't need school choice or this and that. it is control. and here's your obama phone and here's free everything and don't ask questions or you will upset the system. the system is coping people stupid on purpose all by design. and if people die, people do i. it doesn't matter they are all getting paid and it is a freak show. >> i appreciate you coming. >> and pastor john guns of st. paul church of jacksonville, florida will join us next. what kind of spiritual message, maybe the pastor brings to us. maybe forget the legal stuff, we need answers much higher than we are getting from the courtroom. we'll be right back. i'm tony siragusa and i'm training guys who leak a little,
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back. >> no need to act up. >> let it roll off your shoulders as water off your back. in one instance it could be over. raise your voice and not your hands. >> i am sheriff scott israel. as your back. >> the pastor said the protestors shouldn't desecrate trayvon's memory with violence. pastor, it is an honor to have you here. you heard all of the concern and apprehension if the verdict were to deputy one way or the other, one of the sides who doesn't like the verdict could erupt into even violence. should we be concerned and afraid that people would have that coined of reaction to what is a system that we have all agreed as citizens and part of our social contract to accept a jury verdict? >> i think honestly and first of all, thank you, governor for
having me on. i think it is imperative that we understand that there is fear and apprehension, there is a segment of our country that is looking for a reason to, to respond negatively or violently. as a country, we have to raise the discussion and topic, listen, whatever the verdict is, we will accept the verdict as painful as it may be for one family or the other. but to respond negatively would desecrate the memory of trayvon martin and ultimately this system makes us happy as a nation. >> you said it beautifully. it is a desecration of trayvon's life if there was a reaction. should the verdict turn out to be acquittal. it would be a desecration to the system to be angry should george
zimmerman found guilty. that is what our system is supposed to do. what advice and what are you saying to your congregation? we have had so many legal arguments thrown back and forth, i want to hear from a spiritual leader and what will you say to the church family and pulpit tomorrow? >> i think the first thing, is that i want to remind my congregation as every congregation, that we must trust the system, as difficult that may be for african-americans and challenging as that may be for the segment of the country. we must trust the system, the system doesn't always work in our favor as we say, but in the end of the day, if we are going to be a person of faith, we must operate with reconcil wragz and restoration and in the end we must protect the lives that are yet to be born and protect the
sanctity and honestly we must protect wee who we are as a people and as a nation, we must operate from a posture of forgiveness and restoration. there are some regardless of the verdict will have a form of protest, do you think it is appropriate it have a protest of the a verdict as long as it doesn't lead in to a violent rage? >> i think every person can vent if you will but in a healthy way. governor, my desire is that we have a national conversation. first of all black men, white men and latinos and koreans it doesn't matter. many of all lifestyles, we need to put a group of men in the room and have a conversation about what does it mean to be a man in america in the 21st century? we have to begin two to deal with us. you know, we have to deal with
why we have the anger and why we are dealing with race in the 21st century? we have to raise the conversation to a higher level. we have to understand that a 17 year old young man was murdered. however the jury comes back with the verdict his life is gone, and also another man's life is affected as well. we have created a system that encourages certain behavior. we have to radically reconstruct our system and that begins with us admitting that we have challenges as a nation and we have to deal with those challenges and so ultimately my children and your children and our grandchildren have a healthier future. >> pastor, those are the words of leadership and i appropriate. it god bless you and thank you for joining us tonight. >> thank you, governor for having me. >> we'll be back to answer questions from our live studio audience. we'll be right back, stay with
>> well, we asked our audience who's here in new york to submit some questions for lisa and recommenremy. we'll get to as many as we can in our brief time together. first question, and it's a good one. regardless of which side wins, do you think there will be appeals? >> i'll take that one. if the prosecution loses, they can't appeal. double jeopardy. it's over. if the defense loses, they'll absolutely appeal. >> what would be the basic appealable action on the part of the defense? >> well, generally an appeal will be as a matter of law, that the judge made mistakes of law, so it could be the introduction of evidence, rulings against the defense that was to keep evidence out, or the way that
the jury was charged. we know there was a lot of argument about it. those would probably be the things that they would appeal. mike we had a question from jean, wanted to know if there was an acquit yell could there still be civil charges filed against zimmerman or even federal charges for civil rights, but could there be civil charges from the family of trayvon martin. >> absolutely. civil charges. now, if zimmerman is acquitted, then zimmerman could be suing the county of sanford, florida saying i was wrongly accused and he could be suing, so either way, there will be civil lawsuits. the federal could be civil rights lawsuits or civil rights federal violations. possible. mike in other words, this is not over just because the jury has concluded, at least likely not. okay. wendell has the question. has anyone been keeping track of appealable error issues during the trial? >> well, like i was just saying a moment ago, there have been a number of contentious legal arguments that the judge has ruled on. that's not different from any
other criminal case. i don't think that there are any true object errors that the judge has made, but they're arguable. >> how about the time the judge said to zimmerman in front of his counsel are you testifying or not? straight to him before the defense actually even rested? that's an appealable issue. >> well, respectfully, i disagree. >> respectfully? >> i do. >> that's part of the process. the judge has to be sure and she has to voir dire the defendant in every criminal case to make sure he's knowingly and voluntarily giving up his right to testify. mike but the question was the timing. >> that would be -- i think what the law calls harmless error. even if she to have waited another 90 seconds after the state rested, that wouldn't have changed the outcome. >> let me get about a 15 second answer from each of you because that's all the time we he have. your opinion of the judge, deborah ne nelson.
lis? >> fair and balanced like we are at fox. i thought maybe she was a little tired, overly angry at the defense. >> i think the world of this judge. i think she's one of the sharpest, most efficient and fairest judges we've seen in a high profile case in a long time. she's really done a good job to move this case forward and keep control in her courtroom. >> and she was no judge ito. >> that is the truth. >> she was not hamming for the cameras. >> i think we have to remember, too, these judges don't do this for television normally. a lot of times i think the public sees a side of the criminal justice system that may not be completely fair to the courtroom. we've seen way too many episodes of law and order. lis, remi, thank you both. great to have you here. i appreciate your time. i'll be back with some closing thoughts when we return. hey linda! what are you guys doing? having some fiber! with new phillips' fiber good gummies. they're fruity delicious! just two gummies have 4 grams of fiber! to help support gularity!
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charlotte marsh. she leaves in maryland near her daughter carol and her family. we all want to say happy birthday, fan. if you make it to 100, i'll wish you a happy birthday, too. well, this hats been a tough trial for all of america. we await a verdict. it could come sometime tonight. if not, it could be tomorrow or any moment. throughout this entire experience, i think a lot of people have wondered which side wins. in one way, we need to remember that the way our justice system is designed, it's not about sides. it's not about winning and losing. it's about justice. justice isn't winning and losing. justice is when all of us collectively reach out and with a sense of blind indifference to everything, whether race or gender, wealth or position, we decide what's right and what's wrong, and by the way, it will never be perfect because we're not perfect. we can never expect a perfect result as long as we're involved
in it. but our system, with all of its flaws, is still the best system on earth, and i wouldn't trade it for anything. the verdict watch continues. next with judge jeanine from new york. goodnight. the power is enormous. the process overwhelming, the consequences dire. it is the decision to engage and put into motion the criminal justice system, the decision to charge someone with a crime, the decision to put everything about the accused at risk, their reputation, their livelihood, and the one who makes the decision, who carries the ultimate power, the district attorney, the chief prosecutor. hello and welcome to justice. i'm judge jeanine pirro. thanks for being with